Browse content similar to 27/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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And the presiding officer Rosemary Butler tells us that the make-up of | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
the National Assembly must reflect the population in order for the | :01:23. | :01:33. | |
:01:33. | :01:33. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2293 seconds | :01:33. | :39:47. | |
The National Assembly's Presiding Officer wants more women to be | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
elected to public offices. And plans to shake-up the authority | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
that looks after historic sites in Wales. | :39:58. | :40:05. | |
Good afternoon tea both. Gill, you spent the week in Brussels. David | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
Cameron finally made his speech on the European question. What have | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
you heard from your fellow MEPs? Well, a mixture. Exasperation. | :40:16. | :40:23. | |
Indifference from some quarters, bemusement. Of course there is | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
going to be a debate on the future of the European Union and what | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
treaty changes are needed in the next few years. But really what | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
David Cameron is proposing is highly unlikely to happen. But I | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
think in Wales it is exasperating because he is looking very much at | :40:42. | :40:51. | |
the UK within Europe. But if we are really to build any you Mac that is | :40:51. | :41:00. | |
responsive -- to build and it EU them what we need to have is a | :41:00. | :41:10. | |
:41:10. | :41:11. | ||
debate in Wales as well. They need to talk about which of those powers | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
should come to the National Assembly if that was to happen. So | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
certainly we need a debate, but in terms of other countries in Europe, | :41:19. | :41:26. | |
they are quite bewildered and bemused. David Cameron is just | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
reflecting public opinion, isn't he? There's been a bounced towards | :41:33. | :41:40. | |
the Conservatives following his speech. I'm sure there will be some | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
short-term popularity and it sounds attractive. But it is highly | :41:45. | :41:52. | |
irresponsible. Once people start thinking about the consequences to | :41:52. | :42:00. | |
the economy. It is irresponsible of the Prime Minister to be put in the | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
interest of his political party, to use Europe as a smokescreen for | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
divisions in the Conservative Party. I think in the long-term he will | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
rue the day that he is adopted this position. There is no guarantee | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
that he would vote to leave Europe. No, but it is the uncertainty and | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
lack of clarity on what Britain's position actually is. With regard | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
to the UK, where does Wales feature? And Scotland? It seems | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
Cameron is prepared to almost sacrifice the Hedger many of the UK | :42:36. | :42:46. | |
:42:46. | :42:47. | ||
for the sake of very narrow personal interest. -- the hegemony. | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
There is overwhelming opposition to plans to investigate the body that | :42:52. | :43:00. | |
looks after historical sites. An inquiry by an Assembly committee | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
found widespread unease about the idea of a merger among its | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
academics and heritage groups. The Welsh government has a history | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
of reorganising public institutions. The Welsh Development Agency, the | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
NHS. Now, it has another in its sights - the authority that | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
investigates historic buildings and archaeology. The Royal Commission | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
on the Ancient and historical Monuments of Wales. It was founded | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
in 19 awake, but like the rest of the public Brown, it has entered | :43:33. | :43:39. | |
the age of austerity. It receives �2 million a year from the Welsh | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
government. A Heritage Minister says he is worried about resilience | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
in the face of public spending cuts. He wants to bring the commission in | :43:47. | :43:54. | |
house and merge it with the Welsh government's conservation service. | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
That service looks after historic sites like here so there we can all | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
come and enjoy them. The Royal Commission investigates the site so | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
there we can understand the place in history. Why not build a bridge | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
between them and bring the two together? If it offends their work | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
from cutbacks, what is the harm in merging both organisations? But | :44:17. | :44:22. | |
there is strong opposition to a merger. Historian Professor Ralph | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
Griffiths is a former chairman of the commission. The proposal is to | :44:27. | :44:34. | |
take it into the government itself, which is becoming a trend nowadays. | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
Then it would lose its arm's-length quality and the confidence people | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
feel in it. After hearing from the professor and 82 other witnesses, | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
the assembly's Communities Committee told Mr Lewis there was | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
overwhelming opposition to a merger, particularly if it happens within | :44:52. | :45:00. | |
the government itself. It seems all the advice weaves -- we have | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
received as a committee is saying, you should merge these bodies | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
outside of government. I'm concerned that this is an | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
ideological decision, they are centralising everything, they are | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
control freaks. Everything has to be under the direct control of the | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
minister, a rather than doing the sensible thing and enabling those | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
two bodies to thrive and attract that additional money. Mr Lewis has | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
asked to see a business case on a merger by March. A White Paper on | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
the Heritage Bill will follow. Needs must. We're in a situation | :45:38. | :45:46. | |
where everybody needs to look deeply at issues. We've considered | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
this very carefully. Everyone involved that is close to it | :45:52. | :45:58. | |
recognises that status quo is not an option at the moment. If we are | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
to have a resilient historic sector, we need change. The is merger isn't | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
a new idea, but when it was put to Mr Lewis's predecessor, you says he | :46:08. | :46:15. | |
wasn't convinced. I think the minister is probably under some | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
pressure from his own department, and I think there's a feeling it is | :46:20. | :46:26. | |
nonsense to have two bodies operating vaguely in the same area. | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
There are unforeseen consequences often when you change the pattern | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
of institutions like this, and you have to be careful that what | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
emerges is better than what you have that the moment. The Royal | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
Commission on the ancient and historic monuments of Wales told | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
Sunday politics it wants to see a robust and transparent examination | :46:46. | :46:53. | |
of the options available. Its own evidence talks of asset-stripping. | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
After more than 100 years of independence, how much longer can | :46:56. | :47:04. | |
it hold out? Some insight there into why he was | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
going ahead with this. Needs must, he said. Is this been done to save | :47:09. | :47:18. | |
money? Obviously, these are two bodies that are working in the same | :47:18. | :47:24. | |
area. So I can understand these concerns. The Royal Commission has | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
a particularly good reputation so any change is of concern. I think | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
they hit the nail on the head when they said that there may be just a | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
vacation before it, but what comes out of it has to be better than | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
what you've got. I think that is a challenge and that is why the | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
scrutiny has focused so much on this. Bearing in mind the evidence | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
given to the committee, overwhelming opposition, what does | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
that say to you or anyone else but the government is planning to go | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
ahead despite the overwhelming opposition? I think the question is | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
the way in which the government raises -- answers the points raised | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
by the committee. We had a similar process in respect to the | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
environmental bodies as well, where the scrutiny has said, we | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
understand what it is you're trying to achieve, but you show to a us | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
that what you are proposing will work and what guarantees are you | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
giving? That is the role of scrutiny and that will be the test | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
as to whether the government's proposal is going to go ahead and | :48:29. | :48:35. | |
be effective. If this does go ahead, Ralph Griffiths was saying there | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
that the government would lose the confidence of the experts. That | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
would be quite a high price to pay. Certainly, and the independence of | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
the Royal Commission is crucial. As he said, there has been | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
overwhelming evidence given against the merger and against it being | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
taken in by the government. I think there's a wider picture as well, if | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
you look at it in terms of the economy. It is being driven by the | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
need to make cuts, but that is a false argument, because tourism and | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
heritage and cultural tourism in Wales is something we haven't even | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
begun to exploit fully. There is huge potential to develop that. I | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
hosted a seminar in the European Parliament last week looking at | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
sustainable tourism where different countries came together to look at | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
the potential for expanding at, which of course creates jobs and | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
helps the economy. So I think that looking are bodies like is to try | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
to make cuts is a false measure. I think it is counter-productive. | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
What we should be doing is really investing in this and looking | :49:43. | :49:51. | |
seriously at tourism in Wales. Lewis made it clear why these | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
changes are likely to happen. We going to see this in other | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
departments, aren't we? In a bid to save money and slim down the budget, | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
more things are going to be pushed together. This will be a recurring | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
argument. There's no doubt there is a tremendous financial squeeze on | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
public services and particularly on things like museums. Particularly | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
where we have opened access to them and make them free. I adopt the | :50:19. | :50:25. | |
position that we don't want change. I can understand why there is | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
caution and concern about change. But it boils down to the scrutiny - | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
what are you trying to achieve? Will you be able to at least | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
maintain what you're doing or improve it with the resources you | :50:36. | :50:44. | |
have got? That is a challenge and the jury is still out on that. | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
Now, the Assembly's Presiding Officer has run privately to all | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
leaders of the four political parties urging them to take action | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
to ensure top more women are elected to public offices. In 2006, | :50:57. | :51:06. | |
more than half of a AMs will women but not any more. I spoke to | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
Rosemary and asked her if this reduction would continue into the | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
next election. Well, as you know, we've had enormous success with | :51:15. | :51:22. | |
elected women. Over 50% a couple of years ago. Down to 44%, so slipping | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
slightly, and the more I went about as a Presiding Officer, I could see | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
there were very few Women in local government, magistrates, governors, | :51:31. | :51:36. | |
the local health boards. And when you think that women are over 50% | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
of the population, that is a huge resource to be wasted. If we are to | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
be effective as an Assembly, we need to it reflect the make-up of | :51:45. | :51:51. | |
the population. You've asked parties to consider what they could | :51:51. | :52:01. | |
:52:01. | :52:04. | ||
do to get more men -- more women elected. Does political pragmatism | :52:04. | :52:12. | |
takeover of? If I had the answer, I wouldn't be sitting year -- sitting | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
here. I've asked the party leaders to least look at how they would do | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
it. I wouldn't prescribe a particular way of doing it. But | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
there must be a way to make more people come for it for elections. | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
And it's not just about the Assembly. It is across Wales. | :52:30. | :52:36. | |
why is it important them more women are elected, whether it is councils, | :52:36. | :52:43. | |
the Assembly or Parliament? Well, they make up 50% of the population. | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
I'm not saying were better than men, were different. Working together, | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
you get better policies. Research has been done at across the world | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
to show that when you get mixed genders on legislation you get | :52:56. | :53:04. | |
better policies. There were lots of women elected to the Assembly in | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
1999 who may be considering if they will stand again in next election | :53:08. | :53:14. | |
in 2016. Do you know what your position will be? 2016? I've got a | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
crystal ball but I'm not looking that far ahead. I think when I'm | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
making that decision my husband will be the first to know, not the | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
BBC. But I have a very important job to do. I have the great | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
privilege of being a Presiding Officer. There's lots of work to do. | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
A youth introduced some changes this week to business in the | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
Assembly. -- you have introduced. Have you been stung by a question | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
that perhaps you are too cosy with the government when it comes to | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
First Minister's Questions? Well, you almost -- you ought ask the | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
First Minister about my relationship with them. You will | :53:53. | :54:00. | |
find it is anything but cosy! I must be doing something right | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
because I suppose I am equally unfair with everybody. I was a bit | :54:04. | :54:11. | |
taken aback by it and the running of the Assembly. I have introduced | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
quite a few changes. We rearranged the committee so it is bigger. We | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
now look at scrutiny and policy changing. So the members can build | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
up a much better expertise. I'm going to introduce more | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
opportunities to backbench legislation. Cross-party debates, | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
and also leaders questions, which was any before. So a lot is | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
happening. I'm pleased to say that this week the business committee | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
has agreed we will change the timing for submitting questions. At | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
the moment, they have to be submitted to ministers two weeks in | :54:47. | :54:56. | |
advance. Now, it will be five days for ministers and three days for | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
the first ministers, which means the questions will be more topical | :55:00. | :55:07. | |
and concise. That's what it comes down to, so the government can be | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
scrutinised. Do you think they are being scrutinised sufficiently | :55:11. | :55:20. | |
well? I can't possibly comment on that, but the opportunity is there | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
for members to ask concise questions. If they're not getting | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
the answers, keep asking the questions. I'm not responsible for | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
what the ministers say, I'm responsible for making sure the | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
system is there so that other members of the Assembly can | :55:34. | :55:41. | |
pressure them. Thank you. That was the presiding Officer Rosemary | :55:41. | :55:48. | |
Butler. She said she doesn't have the answers as to how to get more | :55:48. | :55:58. | |
:55:58. | :55:59. | ||
women elected. Do you? Well, plight curry has a woman deputy leader, | :55:59. | :56:08. | |
chair, chief executive. We have a very good record in the past. -- | :56:08. | :56:15. | |
Plaid Cymru. There isn't one answer but I welcome the fact she has | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
written to the parties. They are now in the process of choosing | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
candidates, so this is the right time. There are whole range of | :56:25. | :56:34. | |
messages -- measures that can be looked at. There have been a lot of | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
women candidates in Wales who have stood in Wales where there is no | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
chance of winning. That is good experience of course, but | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
ultimately for the Assembly and government, we want equal | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
representation, so we want women to win seats in the Assembly, to take | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
up those seats so that we can say once again the we are amongst the | :56:54. | :57:01. | |
best in the world. Your party had equal distribution in recent years. | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
You won a seat when one of your comments -- colleagues step down. | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
That happened a lot, lots of women AMs step down and were replaced by | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
men. Was that a step backwards? think there is a danger in using | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
the electoral system to manipulate too much. People will react if they | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
feel they are not being given a choice. I agree with the point that | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
there is no simple answer, but I'm encouraged her looking across | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
parties at the number of very articulate women coming forward | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
through the LA -- the political process. I think it is the support | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
for those candidates in the future that is important. But people are | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
encouraged, because clearly we want an Assembly that reflects society | :57:54. | :58:01. | |
at large. And one that is able to hold the government to account. | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
Some of the other things Rosemary Butler suggested there, the changes | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
she is making to make question asking more concise - perhaps | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
something I could learn from both you and your colleagues could learn | :58:12. | :58:19. | |
from it as well. I think the problem is not in the answers | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
people are getting, but the quality of the questions. Sometimes | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
remembers confuse making a speech with asking a probing question that | :58:27. | :58:34. | |
leads to identifying issues that they want to raise. So there is an | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
issue there. The quality of what you ask rather than the information | :58:38. | :58:46. | |
given afterwards. Is this a problem in the European Parliament? | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
don't, because speaking time is strictly restricted. I must say, | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
when we do ask questions, we get very open, detailed answers, | :58:55. | :59:00. | |
generally. The problem there is the lack of speaking time not the | :59:00. | :59:08. | |
length of questions. Time now for a quick look back at | :59:08. | :59:18. | |
:59:18. | :59:21. | ||
the political stories of the last Carwyn Jones set the debate was led | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
by corrosive English nationalism. He said withdrawal from the EU | :59:26. | :59:35. | |
would be disastrous for the Welsh economy. A cross-party group of AMs | :59:35. | :59:41. | |
united in an attempt to save local health services in Wales. Four of | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
them won the Minister to intervene and plans to move specialist | :59:44. | :59:50. | |
intensive baby-care to England after the university health board | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
said it must over all services. BBC Wales apologised for a claim | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
that a story in the medical drama casualty had to be pulled because | :59:57. | :00:03. | |
of a smoking ban in Wales. The smoking did a runner by filming an | :00:03. | :00:13. | |
:00:13. | :00:14. | ||
alternative way of his smoking scene. | :00:14. | :00:24. | |
:00:24. | :00:30. | ||
And four of the town's hotels have What is your favourite seaside | :00:30. | :00:40. | |
:00:40. | :00:44. | ||
resort? I would have to pick between a few. Now, there is a | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
decision on the Agricultural wages Board, which are in the UK | :00:47. | :00:55. | |
government decided to abolish. You want it reinstated here in Wales. | :00:55. | :01:03. | |
Yes, the government wants to retain a body that does that function. The | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
function maintains levels of wagers for farmers. It is a living wage | :01:08. | :01:14. | |
agricultural workers. What you will start seeing his moves by the | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
government, if you're going to abolish it, we are going to take | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
measures under the devolved agricultural responsibility to | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
protect agricultural workers in Wales. It was going to be abolished | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
on an England and Wales level without much consultation -- | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
consultation with the Assembly. think what the Assembly has done is | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
right. If you're talking about agriculture, we've had massive | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
debates and votes this week in the European Parliament on the future | :01:48. | :01:56. | |
of agriculture policy. We're just campaigning now about things that | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
would affect the income of Welsh farmers badly. Thank you for | :02:01. | :02:08. | |
watching us today. That's all we have time for. You can watch the | :02:08. | :02:18. | |
:02:18. | :02:18. |