Browse content similar to 14/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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hear more Welsh tributes and and what more can be done to stop | :38:07. | :38:17. | |
:38:17. | :38:18. | ||
the spread of the Swansea measles outbreak. | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
The former First Minister, Rhodri Morgan, described the late Baroness | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
Thatcher as a marmite politician, you either loved her or loathed her. | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
She was controversial, a hate figure for many but she also led the | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
Conservatives to their best ever election result in Wales, | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
transforming the country along the way with passionate support. As | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
we've heard already, the coming week sees her funeral, and the week just | :38:34. | :38:44. | |
passed saw tributes to her in Parliament. In the House of Commons, | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
there were tributes from party leaders. They say, cometh the hour, | :38:49. | :38:57. | |
come on the man. In 1979, came the hour and came the lady. She made | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
history, and let this be her epitaph, that she made our country | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
great again. Margaret Thatcher was a unique and towering figure. I | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
disagree with much of what she did but I respect what her death means | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
to the many people who admired her an eye on her personal | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
achievements. Tributes from a Welsh MP with an English constituency. She | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
did but I respect what her death means to the many people who admired | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
her an eye on her personal achievements. Tributes from a Welsh | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
MP with an English constituency. She's shared abuse power. Her fight | :39:32. | :39:41. | |
to tame trade unionism are testament to that innate understanding. And a | :39:41. | :39:48. | |
former secretary of state. A great lady, a huge personal achievement. | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
At its best, an achievement which breaks free from conservatism and | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
party dogma and showed the world that there is a better way, a | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
democratic way, a freedom loving way. But there were harsher words | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
from opposition MPs. She should be judged on her own terms, by whether | :40:10. | :40:18. | |
she did deliver harmony, whether she delivered hope. And I feel she | :40:18. | :40:28. | |
:40:28. | :40:28. | ||
failed on those two counts. Margaret Thatcher did not bite for heavy | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
industry in the way she fought for the farming industry or the | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
financial industry. The result is a terrible one. In Wales, strong | :40:39. | :40:47. | |
support and fond memories of a woman dubbed by some the Celtic iron Lady. | :40:47. | :40:54. | |
Missions -- Mrs Thatcher shattered the glass ceiling because he proved | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
that a woman with intelligence, personality, strong determination | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
and willpower can achieve whatever they want with hard work. She did | :41:05. | :41:15. | |
:41:15. | :41:18. | ||
that not by gift, but by sheer determination. She had regular | :41:18. | :41:24. | |
dealings and meetings with the then Prime Minister. It was rather like | :41:24. | :41:30. | |
taking an exam because you had to know your stuff and do your work! | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
You would ask your questions about your constituency, the work you were | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
doing, what you were planning to do, how things were in north Wales. | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
And then, after two hours, she looked at her watch and said, the | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
meeting is over. Shall we go upstairs? Would you like a copy or a | :41:51. | :42:00. | |
drink? So she changed. Suddenly, she became a Prime Minister in her own | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
home. People didn't see that side of her. They just thought she was quite | :42:05. | :42:12. | |
divisive. But remember, she was a woman in a man's world. In the 80s, | :42:13. | :42:19. | |
women in politics at it very hard, and she had a tough time because she | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
broke the mould of the Conservative party. She was a grocers daughter, | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
went to grammar school, got a scholarship, she had no silver | :42:28. | :42:36. | |
spoons. And she made it! Another former Welsh MEP has been vocal this | :42:37. | :42:46. | |
week. He spoke in Wednesday 's debate. He believes Baroness | :42:46. | :42:53. | |
Thatcher deserves recognition. important to recognise the strength | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
of character and personality and recognise she achieved a number of | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
things that this country, notably, the Falklands victory. At the same | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
time, we have to have a balanced picture and recognise that Mrs | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
Thatcher pursued extreme economic policies which had an awful impact | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
on places like south Wales, the ballot in particular. I well | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
remember the miners strike, in which she relished in taking on the miners | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
who, in my view, which is defending their jobs, families and | :43:29. | :43:35. | |
communities. In my view, no prime minister of our country should | :43:35. | :43:45. | |
:43:45. | :43:46. | ||
declare a group of individuals like this. We have to have a balanced | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
picture of Margaret Thatcher. She was a notable prime minister, but | :43:50. | :43:57. | |
the many people, she will not be a great prime minister. On one thing | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
all politicians and commentators are agreed: We have witnessed the | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
passing of one of the most significant political figures in | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
British history. Opinions on Baroness Thatcher tend to be | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
polarised. The debate over her legacy will stretch along into the | :44:14. | :44:24. | |
:44:24. | :44:24. | ||
future. He will be going to the funeral on Wednesday. It has been a | :44:24. | :44:31. | |
difficult week. People are already starting to weigh up how legacy. | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
brought me into politics in the first place. I was at school during | :44:36. | :44:43. | |
her early years. This, the me, was a huge time, particularly given how | :44:43. | :44:49. | |
bad the state of the country was in 1979 and what she managed to do. By | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
the time I went to university, the country had turned around and was | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
already starting to show enormous amounts of growth because of the | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
restructuring she had been brave enough to put into place. She did | :45:04. | :45:11. | |
have a very divisive nature, but she wasn't very difficult times. We have | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
two bearing mind that at times of stress, you need a very strong | :45:13. | :45:21. | |
leader. My colleagues in Europe right now can't understand why we | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
are talking about some of the negative aspects of structural | :45:24. | :45:33. | |
reform. Actually, they see she was the world stateswoman. They see she | :45:33. | :45:40. | |
gave them the real aspiration for democratic societies. Particularly | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
my colleagues in Poland and the Czech Republic, they can't | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
understand why we aren't celebrating her life right now. Not everybody is | :45:50. | :45:58. | |
celebrating her life. You were in the Commons from 1974. What are your | :45:58. | :46:04. | |
reflections on her political contribution? I disagree with | :46:04. | :46:10. | |
everything she did, both in terms of Wales and the Welsh economy, the | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
extremes of wealth and poverty which developed under her government. | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
Also, the assertion there is no alternative, the way she delayed | :46:20. | :46:29. | |
:46:30. | :46:34. | ||
peace in Ireland, the miners, I supported them. And I will not be | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
taking part in any obituaries to Margaret Thatcher. You weren't in | :46:39. | :46:48. | |
Westminster last week. No, I won't be. I don't believe it is relevant. | :46:48. | :46:55. | |
In the past, though, when you were in the presiding officer's chair, | :46:55. | :47:04. | |
Harold Wilson, there was a debate then? I am not criticising the fact | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
we have an opportunity for an obituary. But now I don't have to | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
take part in such a thing because I think it would be hypocritical. I am | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
very concerned that all this discussion about her so-called | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
legacy is only strengthening those people who believe that austerity is | :47:25. | :47:32. | |
the answer to the economic situation we are in. Pick up on that point. | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
have another side to this. My grandfather was a minor in the 1920s | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
and 30s and lost his job. He and my grandmother had to move to London | :47:44. | :47:54. | |
:47:54. | :47:55. | ||
because there were no jobs in South Wales. This was a ongoing problem. | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
He was a trade union representative, so I have history here. But at | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
school, I studied the miners strike and decided the economic arguments | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
being put forward was such that we had to actually make reforms | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
possible. She had the strength of character to do that and sowed the | :48:14. | :48:20. | |
seeds for what we have as an entrepreneurial country right now. | :48:20. | :48:28. | |
To be fair, I grew up there for my first jobs with that legacy of | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
growth and opportunity in Britain, where people suddenly wanted to come | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
here. Our universities became the best in the world, our businesses | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
were attracting other foreign investment in. She had a strategy. | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
Even though she took on the trade unions, she also had a strategy that | :48:47. | :48:56. | |
:48:57. | :48:57. | ||
changing the economy. Built on financial services, a disaster for | :48:57. | :49:03. | |
the UK economy. I was very friendly with Peter Walker. He wouldn't agree | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
with any of that! I support the line taken by the Conservatives in the | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
Welsh office because the policies pursued were more of a consensual | :49:14. | :49:21. | |
policy. You can't have a prime minister or first Minister who takes | :49:22. | :49:31. | |
:49:32. | :49:33. | ||
on the people that didn't vote for her. Do you understand and respect | :49:33. | :49:39. | |
views like that? When people are talking about the funeral, there | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
will be protests there, and you understand why people feel like | :49:43. | :49:50. | |
that? I do. I have family members who feel just as strongly. But it is | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
important to understand whether United Kingdom was in 1979 and where | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
it was when she left. It is critically important for me to | :49:59. | :50:06. | |
understand, as somebody who was a child at the time, that, in 79, only | :50:06. | :50:13. | |
15% of the U.K.'s GDP came private enterprise. That is her legacy. It | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
should be something we celebrate because the UK has been at the head | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
of the European curve. Many member states are struggling with | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
structural reforms because they took a much longer approach to it. | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
Whether you have that delivered quickly so you can grow or not, for | :50:34. | :50:43. | |
decades afterwards, we are all now in a situation whereby we have two | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
still go on with structural reforms. Past governments have been | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
a little less able to deliver as firmly as she was able to. Kate is | :50:53. | :51:01. | |
focusing on the economic impact. Others may focus on more of a social | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
impact. What do you think about the idea of protesting at the funeral? | :51:06. | :51:13. | |
don't favour protesting. I would advise people to be absent, to do | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
something positive on the day. I find it very difficult, myself, and | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
I am very glad I'm not in a position where I have to take part in events | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
of this kind because I do believe, very sincerely, that the failure to | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
think in terms of a society where people have to cooperate with each | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
other and live together and shared together and think of a society in | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
terms of individualism to the extent that I believe she tried in her firm | :51:45. | :51:51. | |
-- famous sermon on the mount to subvert Christian theology. I | :51:51. | :51:59. | |
remember how the archbishop took her on. Then, of course, there was the | :51:59. | :52:05. | |
Falklands War, and I knew people from the military who were operating | :52:05. | :52:12. | |
the policy she took on then, and it was a near total disaster. In all | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
fairness, that is not a view shared. A large number of military | :52:17. | :52:24. | |
personnel have come out and spoken so highly favourably of her. Some of | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
the leading Welsh victims of some of the attacks in the Falklands have | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
spoken so lovingly of what she was achieving as a leader. This | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
highlights the division in views. And now the measles outbreak. This | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
weekend, more than 2,000 children have been vaccinated at special MMR | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
drop-in clinics across South Wales. The clinics across South Wales have | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
been held in a bid to tackle the outbreak in the Swansea area. The | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
number of cases there is now just under 700 but isn't expected to peak | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
for at least another four weeks. Public health officials have been | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
warning that around 40,000 children across Wales still need to be | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
vaccinated against measles. Mick Antoniw, the Pontypridd AM and | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
member of the Assembly's Health Committee, joins us from our Cardiff | :53:06. | :53:16. | |
:53:16. | :53:24. | ||
newsroom. Swansea is the focus of this outbreak. Inevitably, people | :53:24. | :53:30. | |
will be concerned of the spread. Should parents be concerned? | :53:30. | :53:39. | |
Concerned enough to ensure their children are vaccinated. Even up to | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
teenagers. In my own health authority, there have only been | :53:42. | :53:48. | |
three cases of measles, but it isn't -- but it is very active in order to | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
ensure those teenagers are being vaccinated now to avoid catching the | :53:52. | :54:00. | |
disease over the course of the coming weeks. The Welsh government | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
has ruled out compulsory vaccination. I was talking to a | :54:02. | :54:08. | |
nurse and she was saying that every year, there has been a spike in | :54:08. | :54:14. | |
September or October when students are going to university and who have | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
not been vaccinated. Do you think compulsory immunisation should be | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
introduced? I don't think it is necessary because what is more | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
important is we think carefully about upping our game in terms of | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
educating people about the risks. What we have now is a generation | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
who, to some extent, believe there is not an underlying problem there | :54:38. | :54:44. | |
is vaccination doesn't take place. In the post-war period, people | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
understood vaccination much more. Now, we need to re-educate people | :54:47. | :54:54. | |
that there is a risk there. That is what is important. You are a member | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
of the health committee. Is this something you will be discussing | :54:59. | :55:06. | |
with the new chair? I certainly think we will want to discuss and | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
see whether there were lessons to be learned from this outbreak. Some of | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
those discussions may be beneficial to the whole of the United Kingdom | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
because this is not just a Wales issue, although I think the | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
authorities have responded very effectively. We need to know what we | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
need to do to ensure more people understand the importance of | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
vaccination and the consequences of non-vaccination, and how we engage | :55:35. | :55:42. | |
with people to dispel any concerns they may have. The downturn of | :55:42. | :55:48. | |
vaccination in the 90s arose out of a scare of the risk of autism which | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
proved to be false. Maybe, the mistake from the past is we didn't | :55:54. | :56:04. | |
:56:04. | :56:06. | ||
appreciate sufficiently the consequences of that. The Welsh | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
government has ruled out compulsory immunisation. Is that the right | :56:09. | :56:19. | |
:56:19. | :56:19. | ||
decision quiz Mac --? We need to work with individuals to identify | :56:19. | :56:26. | |
those who have not been vaccinated and to persuade them. Here, it is an | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
international issue as well. We were looking at the potential of getting | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
rid of measles from the world. Now, of course, we won't be able to do | :56:36. | :56:44. | |
that. We need to support the clinical advice we have had, and all | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
of us had to take that advice seriously and to pursue it and | :56:49. | :56:56. | |
explain to people why it is a social responsibility issue. In the | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
headlines, this outbreak in Swansea, I don't know if you have discussed | :57:00. | :57:10. | |
it with any of your colleagues in Europe. Part of this is local. On an | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
immunisation level, data suggests 95% of the population have to be | :57:15. | :57:21. | |
immunised. I have to say I have sympathy with the parents here. My | :57:21. | :57:28. | |
own children, it was right in the middle of the entire scare when, in | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
particular, I was worried about my son and was trying to get some | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
expert advice on whether or not I should vaccinate him. I was in the | :57:38. | :57:44. | |
privileged position of understanding the science. And I had access to | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
world leading scientists at the time. Not one of them told me to do | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
it. If they were not confident at the time, I don't think they blamed | :57:53. | :58:00. | |
me for not giving my son the vaccine. I gave my son the single | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
vaccines. I felt very strongly he should be immunised, but felt | :58:05. | :58:11. | |
strongly about not taking the risk with the vaccine. The year before | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
this study came out, the UK government withdrew the single | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
measles vaccine. Even when they knew there was a problem, the government | :58:19. | :58:25. | |
didn't allow that license to be renewed. That is a mistake of | :58:25. | :58:30. | |
policy. When the media blow up these things... This was published in the | :58:30. | :58:38. | |
Lancet. It wasn't something that people could not ignore. The media | :58:38. | :58:44. | |
actually blew it up into something very large when this was only 12 | :58:44. | :58:50. | |
patients studied. We have to take great caution here. The public | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
health messages need to come out. Politicians also need to understand | :58:54. | :59:01. | |
that when people are worried, they need to find alternatives. | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
Time now for a quick look back at some of the political stories of the | :59:05. | :59:15. | |
:59:15. | :59:19. | ||
week in 60 seconds. Flags were flown at half-mast at the national | :59:19. | :59:27. | |
assembly and Parliament to mark the death of Baroness Thatcher. The | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
Bridgend MP said with European countries cutting defence spending, | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
it was important the governments across Europe worked together. She | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
called for one for all and all for one. Alan Davies said farmers would | :59:40. | :59:47. | |
be allowed to bury animals on their land. European restrictions were | :59:47. | :59:54. | |
relaxed because farmers were unable to dispose of stock. And the merger | :59:54. | :00:02. | |
of the social services department is unlikely. Council officers advised | :00:02. | :00:10. | |
the pooling of budgets represented a significant risk. The Welsh | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
government has been encouraging authorities to work collaboratively | :00:12. | :00:22. | |
:00:22. | :00:34. |