21/04/2013 Sunday Politics Wales

Later in the programme - As Kirsty Williams prepares to address her

party's spring conference in Cardiff she has been talking to the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2072 seconds

Sunday Politics and our political Hello and on the Sunday Politics

Wales - We hear from the Welsh Liberal Democrat leader Kirsty

Williams as she was preparing to address her party's spring

conference. And another cross border dispute

this time involving a stately home and a windfarm on the Powys-

Herefordshire border. Joining me throughout today's programme are

the Labour Assembly Member Vaughan Gething and the Liberal Democrat MP,

Mark Williams. Let's address the ongoing measles outbreak. You have

been appointed the chair of the assembly's health committee. 3,000

people have been vaccinated in recent days. No end in sight for

this at the moment. Is there something your committee can be

doing? We may want to look at the end of the period of the outbreak

at lessons to be learned. Right now the important messages 800 people

have measles in the Swansea area and it is vital people get their

children vaccinated with the MMR. It is safe, there is no risk to

children and there is at a gap for children in particular between the

ages of 10-18. If you are a parent, take advantage of the clinics.

were chatting before the programme, you faced the dilemma whether to

put your child forward for the vaccine a few years ago when the

debate was ongoing. I can remember the discussions we had as a family

given the information, now perhaps misinformation, that was going

around at the time. People were concerned about the well-being of

their children and the balance of the conflicting issues. I commend

the health or that have risen to the challenge. -- the health board.

We will leave it there for now and move on. As I sit here speaking to

you the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, Kirsty Williams, is

bringing her party conference to an end with a speech in Cardiff. We're

told that she will be saying that the party has reached a "crucial

turning point" in its history and winning the recent Eastleigh by-

election showed the party could win in tough circumstances. Kirsty

Williams has been speaking to our political editor, Betsan Powys.

We have heard many times do in this conference it is time to look

backwards and move forward. It is hardly surprising that you are

saying that given that the view backwards is pretty torrid. He is

that fair to say that the past few years have hit the party pretty

hard in Wales? It would be foolish to pretend the past few years

haven't been difficult. The important message is, and it was

shown in Eastleigh, where week campaign vigorously on the streets

and talk to people those messages are well received. We are out there

talking about raising the threshold of income tax, that to mean a tax

break for one million Welsh workers, 100,000 of them won't be paying tax

at all. We need to talk about those messages and when people hear them

people respond. This they have to be an admission first that the

first half of this government have been tough for you? Has it knocked

your confidence? When you have been a political party that hasn't had

to be a party of government for 80 years, it takes a lot of getting

used to. We have coming to power at a time when things that difficult.

People have to make difficult decisions. We are quite clear in

our message that if you want a stronger economy Bowe wants to live

in a fairer society, only the Liberal Democrats can deliver it.

How long are you going to hold the line about talking about the bits

of policy you had been part of delivering their not ever in these

interviews talking about the unpopular policies you have been

part of delivering. The economy is still quite factor but it is clear

to me that if you run up a load of debts and you go to and advice

agencies to find out how you can get out of it, nobody says carry on

spending. So George Osborne has still got this right? We are trying

to address the debt problem. You can't be inflexible, you have to

understand how that impacts people in the community. That is why tax

cuts for ordinary working people is so important. Do you feel George

Osborne is being inflexible or not? George Osborne have a job to do in

reducing the deficit. Because we have Liberal Democrats in their

government that they are there to make sure we can introduce an

element of fairness. Where people on low incomes get a tax break. We

come but important investments into infrastructure to help boost the

economy. Those are things they would not be happening if the

Liberal Democrats haven't taken the brave step to put the country first.

It would have been easier for us to walk away and kept our hands clean

that there would not have served the country well. But what we have

got to do it is not be afraid of telling people about what we're

doing in government and giving them a reason to vote for us. Do you

feel a burden of responsibility on your shoulders? The party in the UK

level are hoping as vice-chair of the group looking ahead to the

general elections, you can help. Are you feeling is responsibility,

the "Kirsty factor"? In it is gratifying when you're -- it is

gratifying when your colleagues think you're doing a good job. We

are holding a failing Labour government to account in Wales. We

have underfunded schools, schools as a falling behind because the

Welsh Government's refusal to put more money in. The NHS is costing

more and delivering last. -- last. We have to hold the government to

account and used the government -- the influence we have. Let's see

what our guests make of that. Kirsty Williams has giving you her

permission to talk to us today! She ended their suggesting she is going

to continue to be taking a Labour in the Assembly. Overall, I read

the story this morning that Kirsty Williams had set her confidence had

been knocked after your party had gone into coalition. Do you feel

like that? In it was an incredibly hard decision for the party to take.

We had been fighting the Conservative Party for decades are

to have this very difficult decision of the last election did

involve a lot of soul-searching from a lot of us. But the economy

was in a dire Straits, and as Kirsty said, we had to put the

national interest first. It was important for us and we made the

right decision. That is not to say everything in the coalition is

right, there is work to be done. In the same way Kirsty is having

ministers in the Assembly it is our job to do the same in Westminster,

to put forward the Liberal Democrat case to our coalition colleagues.

Let's look at that in detail. Mark and his colleagues are taking on

what trying to halt the Conservatives back in government

while Kirsty Williams is targeting the Labour government. Danny

Alexander said today Wales suffers from Labour's policy of ambition.

Labour failed to give tax powers to the Assembly. Having a go at your

party. That is to be expected. The Welsh Liberal Democrats -- the

Liberal Democrat made the decision to go into bed with the

Conservatives. Apart from Kirsty Williams telling the Liberal

Democrats are the answer to the world, all the answers could have

been given by a Conservative politicians. If you knock on doors

here people are angry about the government and they know the

Liberal Democrats are part of it. Look at them messaging here in

Wales, whether it is the bedroom tax, while De -- the wider tax

reforms. Talking about tax breaks is is going to cut it. I remember

line one of our manifesto, our first priority in the general

election was talking about tax. It is talking about taking people from

a tax regime. We have done that. We talked about pensions. We have had

that because pension increase for many years. The Tories have talked

about regional pay. We have stopped regional pay. You are right, many

of us have great concerns about tuition fees and many of us did not

support the government on that issue. But we are a junior partner

in a coalition. We are punching above our weight and we are making

concrete achievements. There. He raises his you chronicles successes

as you see them, but you have to take responsibility for things that

many in the electorate will not seek as successful. If you did not

win Eastleigh you're never going to win an election ever again. There

was a time when we threw everything at Eastleigh. It was difficult

first to hold that seat. But we did hold it. That wasn't against all

the odds. The East the example in Wales was Cardiff Central. They had

an Assembly Member at every seat. Kirsty Williams has said she

supports the bedroom tax. She did not to talk about it in the

interview but the public know that is what the Lib Dems have done.

They will have to take that when it comes to knocking on doors. The

public are not stupid, they know they have done that the. Would lead

to be talking about taking thousands of people out of the tax

regime altogether, would be be talking about regional pay if I

hadn't been for the Liberal Democrats in government? I spent a

lot of time knocking on doors in your constituency. Eastleigh was

about winning and building up the party. It has been a difficult year.

Has it been a trying, difficult two years? It has. It is difficult for

a junior partner in a coalition. want to talk about Kirsty Williams.

She is seen as a political asset either party. She is the vice-chair

of the general election campaign. You consider her nascent? I always

consider Kirsty Williams an asset. She has the outstanding performers

in the National Assembly. She is the one that really Des an

effective job in the chamber. The five and a National Assembly

pension above their weight. Some of your colleagues have remarked on

that. Kirsty Williams is a leader and she is an effective one. I

promised I would be there to listen to her speech. Do you consider

Kirsty Williams and asset? I don't have a problem who the Lib Dem

leader is. What they're big challenge is what they do as a

party. I don't think the public will forgive the Lib-Dems or

forgive them. -- all listen to them. We will be back with you shortly.

Next, plans for a wind farm just over the border in England could be

scuppered because developers may not be allowed to widen the road to

the site because it lies just inside Wales. Opponents of the

scheme in Powys say that the proposed development will spoil the

view from one of our most important parks. Daniel Davies reports from

the border between Powys and Herefordshire.

In the 1980s it was the setting for races, about a planning row. Now,

in real life, Stanage Park is at the centre will of a row over

planning. In England Herefordshire's planners have given

permission for four turbines. Stanage Park was was built to the

19th century. Their only two others like it in Wales he designed. But

Cadw says the turbines would do serious harm to the visual

character of these grounds. The proposed wind farm is about three

miles from the town of Knighton. Developers have been given

permission to put four 100 metre high turbines on this hill in

England. They generate enough electricity for thousands of homes.

But this dry-stone wall is the border with Wales. Offa's Dyke is a

throws -- Max does throw away. Down there in Powys there are people who

object to this proposal. To build up a wind farm the developers will

have to widen this road to get the turbines up to the site and the

road is in Wales. The Welsh Government has said many work on

the road needs to be assessed by Howard's will affect the

environment and a decision was welcomed by the Welsh Assembly

Member. Local people felt the turbines should be considered

alongside the access route and now that poets have been able to get

some clear wrens and guidance from the last government that is the

case, I welcome that very much indeed. My constituents have an

opportunity to express their views and now we have a more -- more

weight being given to the council views. Motherwell's Government's

decision means his planners at Powys County Council will have to

take into account the view of the turbines from Stanage Park. -- what

the Welsh Government's decision. They can just comments on the

impact on the road but also the impact of the whole wind farm on

residents on the landscape etc. Simon Gourlay is a retired farmer

who wants to build the turbines on his land. He says they were lost

but the landscape and is challenging the Welsh Government's

decision. Herefordshire took into account the impact on Stanage Park.

They will produce energy for 5,000 dwellings. It is a lot more than

5,000 people. The neighbouring villages. He has been trying to

build a wind farm here for 20 years and it is a saga that has far

outlasted the TV farce Blott on the Landscape and looks likely to

rumble on for some time to come. We can see when somebody would want

to pit a wind farm they commit was very windy during that report. It

is another take on cross-border problems. I don't think it is a

problem. When you have more than one planning authority, there is

always a possible heir of complexity. When it is something

like energy development there are strong views on one side or the

other. If you look at the proposals to have a tidal lagoon in the

Swansea Bay, that crosses Swansea and Neath Port Talbot so there is

potential for things to go wrong. The lagoon is more well received

and I'm positive. The problem with Powys is, there are fundamental

opposition to wind farms per say which I don't support or agree with.

Wind power is part of the solution for future energy. I don't think

this is about Wales and England but two different planning authorities.

He doesn't think it is about cross- border issues. You have spent time

waiting on a train in Birmingham while carrying out your

investigation into cross-border issues. A happy two has spent with

colleagues at Birmingham station! - - two hours. There is a huge

sensitivity on wind projects. There's a touch a strong nerve with

people. Having that mechanism and protocol between two planning

authorities is important. Whatever the we take on Wynter their

projects, I have a different view, but I in as practicalities involves

a protocol. It is just the same with health and transportation.

Wind farms, we saw hundreds of people outside the Assembly

protesting against it, as far as you're concerned this is just

another protest? It is no different. Always has a responsibility to take

into account any application. It is their responsibility and I would

like to see them in a position where they can make that decision.

The biggest problems we have is the failure to make decisions at all.

That is not helpful. Whatever side of the debate you are wrong they

have to be decisions. We will leave it there. It is time now for the

political stories of the week in 60 All four party leaders took part in

a debate about the death of Baroness Thatcher. The First

Minister and Andrew RT Davies attended the funeral service. There

was government scheme to help homebuyers has been scrapped just

weeks before it was due to start. There were separate plans announced

by the UK Government. Clwyd South Assembly Member called for more

support for ancient trees after the OFT believed to be the oldest tree

in Britain collapsed in high winds. Local folklore suggests that she

was spared when King Henry the second had his men cut down the

woods in 1165. Cardiff MP Stephen Doughty and Kevin Brennan plays

Cardiff City for their promotion to the Premier League.

Mark Williams, you're in Westminster this week. You saw the

impact of Baroness Thatcher's funeral. What did you think? I was

not at the funeral. I had listened to some of the tributes. A

controversial figure and was responsible for my enters into

politics. I did that agree with her on that. That said, London was in a

sombre mood on the day of the funeral. But I think people feel

time is moving on, that ELWa despite what the Prime Minister

said, -- that Era, despite what the Prime Minister said has moved on.

London was a sad place on Wednesday. She was the first woman prime

minister. Carwyn Jones said it was Mrs Thatcher who was responsible

for him to go into politics. Were you on the chain bet on Tuesday was

man yes, I was there. It is time to move on. We have got a different

battle to fight. People know where the UK Government's stance. There

will be a big choice of making a few years' time and I don't think

people will be referencing back to Margaret Thatcher. Let's make a

radical shift now. Your constituency colleague has been

congratulating Cardiff City. I am delighted. Stephen Doughty is a

season-ticket holder and has been since he was very young. It is

fantastic news for Cardiff and for the wider area. I know perfectly

well that more people care about Cardiff City than what I do in the

Assembly. It is fantastic news for South Wales. 10% of the Premiership

being Welsh is great news for us. insisted about the story with a

tree. It reminds us that Natural Heritage in Wales is that the issue