06/10/2013 Sunday Politics Wales

Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And in-out EU

referendum before the general election?

referendum before the general election? We talk to the Tory rebel

referendum before the general election? We talk to the Tory rebel

demanding one next election? We talk to the Tory rebel

demanding one next year, that election? We talk to the Tory rebel

demanding one next year, that is our top

demanding one next year, that is our top story. As government ministers

prepare to decide top story. As government ministers

prepare to decide how the press should be

prepare to decide how the press should be regulated, what

prepare to decide how the press should be regulated, what will be

the impact of this week's row should be regulated, what will be

the impact of this week's row should be regulated, what will be

between the Daily Mail should be regulated, what will be

between the Daily Mail and Ed Miliband?

You are Miliband?

You are talking about the Miliband?

You are talking about the colour of peoples

Later in the programme... A leading peoples faces?!

Later in the programme... A leading executive at the newspaper group

which was at the heart of the hacking scandal tells us that the

industry must be given one more chance to police itself.

He will try to force a vote in the Commons to hold the

He will try to force a vote in the Commons to hold the poll next

October. Commons to hold the poll next

October. Home Secretary Theresa May was

October. Home Secretary Theresa May was asked about his

October. Home Secretary Theresa May was asked about his plans on the

October. Home Secretary Theresa May was asked about his plans on the BBC

earlier this morning. was asked about his plans on the BBC

earlier this morning. I think he was asked about his plans on the BBC

earlier this morning. I think he has was asked about his plans on the BBC

got it earlier this morning. I think he has

got it wrong, I earlier this morning. I think he has

got it wrong, I think what we need earlier this morning. I think he has

got it wrong, I think what we need earlier this morning. I think he has

to do is to negotiate earlier this morning. I think he has

to do is to negotiate the settlement earlier this morning. I think he has

to do is to negotiate the earlier this morning. I think he has

with the European earlier this morning. I think he has

with the European Union and earlier this morning. I think he has

with the European Union and then put with the European Union and then put

that to with the European Union and then put

that to the people me with the European Union and then put

that to the people me to decide that to the people me to decide

whether to be that to the people me to decide

whether to be in or out. that to the people me to decide

whether to be in or out. Is this that to the people me to decide

whether to be in or out. Is this a flea bite or a

whether to be in or out. Is this a flea bite or a real threat? I

whether to be in or out. Is this a flea bite or a real threat? I think

what is flea bite or a real threat? I think

what is crucial is that we have, flea bite or a real threat? I think

what is crucial is that we have, at the next election, a Conservative

what is crucial is that we have, at the next election, a

what is crucial is that we have, at Party that will

what is crucial is that we have, at Party that will be offering

what is crucial is that we have, at Party that will be offering people

that renegotiation, a new settlement that renegotiation, a new settlement

with Europe, looking to the future that renegotiation, a new settlement

with Europe, looking to the future and putting

with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British

with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British

people in and in and putting that to the British

people in and in or out and putting that to the British

people in and in or out referendum. And what the amendment possibly

could do, And what the amendment possibly

could do, as James Wharton, who And what the amendment possibly

could do, as James Wharton, who was putting the Referendum

could do, as James Wharton, who was putting the Referendum Bill through

could do, as James Wharton, who was putting the Referendum Bill through

Parliament has putting the Referendum Bill through

Parliament has said, is it putting the Referendum Bill through

Parliament has said, is it could jeopardise

Parliament has said, is it could jeopardise that bill.

Parliament has said, is it could jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie

joins us now from Millbank jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie

joins us now from Millbank studio. Good morning. If the

joins us now from Millbank studio. Good morning. If the referendum

would be Good morning. If the referendum

would be held next October, Good morning. If the referendum

would be held next October, it would have to be an

would be held next October, it would have to be an in-out question

would be held next October, it would have to be an in-out question based

the status quo? There wouldn't be have to be an in-out question based

the status quo? There wouldn't be time for a full renegotiation. I

disagree. time for a full renegotiation. I

disagree. By having a referendum in time for a full renegotiation. I

disagree. By having a referendum in 2014, it gives us 12 months to

renegotiate, but it kick-started negotiations, because the European

Union, if they wish us negotiations, because the European

Union, if they wish us to remain negotiations, because the European

Union, if they wish us to negotiations, because the European

members, would need negotiations, because the European

members, would need to accommodate and

members, would need to accommodate and make changes so

members, would need to accommodate and make changes so that they

members, would need to accommodate persuade

members, would need to accommodate and make changes so that they would

persuade the British public to and make changes so that they would

persuade the British public to stay, if that

persuade the British public to stay, if that is what they want.

persuade the British public to stay, if that is what they want. It

strengthens the if that is what they want. It

strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months

strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time

strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time

for that kind hand, and 12 months is ample time

for that kind of hand, and 12 months is ample time

for that kind of negotiation. You might think that,

for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has

not even got a government at might think that, but Germany has

not even got a government at the moment,

not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our

timetable? moment, why should they meet our

timetable? This is moment, why should they meet our

timetable? This is going to be moment, why should they meet our

timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation.

timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I

timetable? This is going to be think, basically, 80% of people want

a referendum. think, basically, 80% of people want

a referendum. More than 50% what think, basically, 80% of people want

a referendum. More than 50% what a referendum this

a referendum. More than 50% what a referendum this side of the

election. referendum this side of the

election. British businesses need certainty, and we

election. British businesses need certainty, and we could carry

election. British businesses need certainty, and we could carry on

taking certainty, and we could carry on

taking a scan down the road for certainty, and we could carry on

taking a scan down the road for ever, but I have

taking a scan down the road for ever, but I have struggled with

taking a scan down the road for ever, but I have struggled with my

conscience over this one. ever, but I have struggled with my

conscience over this one. I do not want to cause

conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is

essential that Parliament and want to cause trouble, but it is

essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to

essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their

souls and have the opportunity to search their

souls and give people have the opportunity to search their

souls and give people a referendum this side of the election.

souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That

would also bring certainty and clarity

would also bring certainty and clarity for the

would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and

would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I

said, clarity for the future, and like I

said, it strengthens the Prime clarity for the future, and like I

said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is

said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is successful.

You right in Minister's hand if it is successful.

You right in the Mail Minister's hand if it is successful.

You right in the Mail on Sunday Minister's hand if it is successful.

You right in the Mail on Sunday that the people are not

You right in the Mail on Sunday that the people are not convinced there

even will the people are not convinced there

even will be a referendum, the people are not convinced there

even will be a referendum, so they the people are not convinced there

even will be a referendum, so they the people are not convinced there

don't trust even will be a referendum, so they

don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline

don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the

don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I

wrote for that piece. What I the headline was not the headline I

wrote for that piece. What I am saying is a very calm

wrote for that piece. What I am saying is a very calm analysis...

You are saying saying is a very calm analysis...

You are saying that the British people are not

You are saying that the British people are not convinced. Look,

there are too people are not convinced. Look,

there are too many uncertainties people are not convinced. Look,

there are too many people are not convinced. Look,

here - there are too many uncertainties

here - they may there are too many uncertainties

here - they may not be there are too many uncertainties

here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives

here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win

here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election,

here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election,

I hope we will, they may not be I hope we will, they may not be

convinced the renegotiation I hope we will, they may not be

convinced the renegotiation will be good enough,

convinced the renegotiation will be good enough, that there

convinced the renegotiation will be good enough, that there will be

convinced the renegotiation will be good enough, that there will be a

referendum. Do you trust David good enough, that there will be a

referendum. Do you trust David Cameron to deliver a referendum?

That is why we need to Cameron to deliver a referendum?

That is why we need to bring the referendum forward,

That is why we need to bring the referendum forward, there is time to

negotiate, referendum forward, there is time to

negotiate, and we tidy referendum forward, there is time to

negotiate, and we tidy up the referendum forward, there is time to

negotiate, and we tidy up the issue that has

negotiate, and we tidy up the issue that has been hanging

negotiate, and we tidy up the issue that has been hanging around for too

long. Do you that has been hanging around for too

long. Do you trust David Cameron to that has been hanging around for too

long. Do you trust David Cameron to deliver a referendum in

long. Do you trust David Cameron to deliver a referendum in 2017? I

completely deliver a referendum in 2017? I

completely support the Prime deliver a referendum in 2017? I

completely support the Prime Minister, and of course

completely support the Prime Minister, and of course I trust the

completely support the Prime Minister, and of course I trust the

completely support the Prime Prime Minister. To deliver a

completely support the Prime Prime Minister. To deliver a

referendum? There as Prime Minister. To deliver a

referendum? There as only variables in

referendum? There as only variables in between. What I am

referendum? There as only variables in between. What I am doing with

referendum? There as only variables in between. What I am doing with

referendum? There as only variables this amendment, is to try to be

referendum? There as only variables this amendment, is to try to be sure

is that Parliament this amendment, is to try to be sure

is that Parliament and every MP has the

is that Parliament and every MP has the opportunity decide whether

is that Parliament and every MP has the opportunity decide whether they

is that Parliament and every MP has the opportunity decide whether

is that Parliament and every MP has want to be

is that Parliament and every MP has want to be sure of a referendum

within this parliament, want to be sure of a referendum

within this parliament, or maybe leave it

within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of

within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may

within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may

within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015.

within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got

within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got

your way, happen in 2015. Supposing you got

your way, how happen in 2015. Supposing you got

your way, how would you vote? happen in 2015. Supposing you got

your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove,

your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would

your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote

your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

leave as of today, Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

an enormous amount of pressure Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

an enormous amount of pressure on European Union

an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come

forward with European Union leaders to come

forward with proposals. If European Union leaders to come

forward with proposals. If they were to

forward with proposals. If they were to say, the mandate is not

forward with proposals. If they were to say, the mandate is not

forward with proposals. If they were closer political

to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is

to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever

closer trading closer political union, it is ever

closer trading harmony, giving us more border control and control over

our more border control and control over

our legal system, more border control and control over

our legal system, I might more border control and control over

our legal system, I might change my more border control and control over

our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is

our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to

our legal system, I might change my happen - if

our legal system, I might change my happen - if we have

our legal system, I might change my happen - if we have a referendum in

2014, happen - if we have a referendum in

2014, 12 months is time for negotiations to be kick-started

2014, 12 months is time for negotiations to be kick-started and

people to negotiations to be kick-started and

people to argue in or out, negotiations to be kick-started and

people to argue in or out, and the negotiations to be kick-started and

people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime

Minister. Is it end result is a stronger Prime

Minister. Is it true that end result is a stronger Prime

Minister. Is it true that you have got about

Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs

Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It

is cross-party, that got about 80 MPs supporting this? It

is cross-party, that is for got about 80 MPs supporting this? It

is cross-party, that is for certain, and I

is cross-party, that is for certain, and I think we

is cross-party, that is for certain, and I think we will see it

on certain, and I think we will see it

on hold over certain, and I think we will see it

on hold over the next certain, and I think we will see it

on hold over the next three or certain, and I think we will see it

on hold over the next three or five certain, and I think we will see it

weeks. He on hold over the next three or five

weeks. He will have to ask each individual

weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you, it

is individual MP. I am asking you, it

is your motion! There will be other motions coming

is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and

is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know

there is motions coming forward, and I know

there is widespread support, motions coming forward, and I know

there is widespread support, cross-party, for people who want the

there is widespread support, cross-party, for people who want the

British public to cross-party, for people who want the

British public to have a say in cross-party, for people who want the

British public to have a say cross-party, for people who want the

2014. You know it is cross-party, for people who want the

2014. You know it is not going to cross-party, for people who want the

get through, 2014. You know it is not going to

get through, the whips 2014. You know it is not going to

get through, the whips will stop this

get through, the whips will stop this from happening. One of the

successes, this from happening. One of the

successes, apparently, of your party's Manchester conference

successes, apparently, of your party's Manchester conference was

successes, apparently, of your that you were

successes, apparently, of your that you were not divided over

Europe anymore, that you were not divided over

Europe anymore, the Europe that you were not divided over

Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled.

Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you

Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it

Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it

back to life settled. Here you are bringing it

back to life and pouring settled. Here you are bringing it

back to life and pouring petrol on settled. Here you are bringing it

back to life and pouring petrol on the flames - are you now

back to life and pouring petrol on the flames - are you now the

back to life and pouring petrol on unlicensed troublemaker

the flames - are you now the unlicensed troublemaker of the

Tories? The only struggle I have had unlicensed troublemaker of the

is not Tories? The only struggle I have had

is not a fight Tories? The only struggle I have had

is not a fight with my Tories? The only struggle I have had

is not a fight with my party but Tories? The only struggle I have had

is not a fight with my party but Tories? The only struggle I have had

with my conscience as to Tories? The only struggle I have had

with my conscience as to whether or not

with my conscience as to whether or not I would

with my conscience as to whether or not I would give Parliament and

with my conscience as to whether or not I would give Parliament and the

British people an opportunity to not I would give Parliament and the

British people an opportunity to have a say in

British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

it, have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

it, and I have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

it, and I decided I have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

it, and I decided I wanted people to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

have that opportunity. have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

have that opportunity. It is have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

have that opportunity. It is for each individual MP to

have that opportunity. It is for each individual MP to search their

have that opportunity. It is for each individual MP to search their

soul, speak to each individual MP to search their

soul, speak to constituents and decide

soul, speak to constituents and decide whether they want

soul, speak to constituents and decide whether they want that. You

decided decide whether they want that. You

decided it would get decide whether they want that. You

decided it would get you in the decide whether they want that. You

decided it would get you in the headlines again. Oh, you are so

decided it would get you in the headlines again. Oh, you are so

cynical, Andrew! headlines again. Oh, you are so

cynical, Andrew! I have headlines again. Oh, you are so

cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition headlines again. Oh, you are so

cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition in that direction, I am not a

publicity seeker. in that direction, I am not a

publicity seeker. All I in that direction, I am not a

publicity seeker. All I seek is for in that direction, I am not a

publicity seeker. All I seek is in that direction, I am not a

the British publicity seeker. All I seek is for

the British people do have this. I would

the British people do have this. I would not be able

the British people do have this. I would not be able to sleep

the British people do have this. I would not be able to sleep at night

the British people do have this. I would not be able to sleep at night

if I did would not be able to sleep at night

if I did not bring forward this would not be able to sleep at night

if I did not bring forward this opportunity for Britain to

if I did not bring forward this opportunity for Britain to have its

if I did not bring forward this opportunity for Britain to have

if I did not bring forward this say. We

opportunity for Britain to have its say. We have left it

opportunity for Britain to have its say. We have left it far too

opportunity for Britain to have its say. We have left it far too long.

Nobody under the age of 56 has had say. We have left it far too long.

Nobody under the age of 56 has had a say.

Nobody under the age of 56 has had a say. Thanks for joining us, good

luck with this say. Thanks for joining us, good

luck with this continuing struggle with your conscience! I

luck with this continuing struggle with your conscience! I will move

the with your conscience! I will move

the seat around and with your conscience! I will move

the seat around and addressed the with your conscience! I will move

the seat around and addressed with your conscience! I will move

panel, what do you make with your conscience! I will move

panel, what do you make of it? The party

panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious

panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with

him. I think what this confirms is party managers must be furious with

him. I think what this confirms is that David Cameron is incredibly

him. I think what this confirms is that David Cameron is incredibly

lucky in his enemies. that David Cameron is incredibly

lucky in his enemies. His most prolific critics, Nadine Dorries,

Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if prolific critics, Nadine Dorries,

Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if you are very

Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if you are very anti-Cameron, you will

not you are very anti-Cameron, you will

not think, man, you are very anti-Cameron, you will

not think, man, if only they were in charge of the party! I

not think, man, if only they were in charge of the party! I think the

party managers are not too alarmed. They do

party managers are not too alarmed. They do not take him

party managers are not too alarmed. They do not take him seriously? No,

it is not a frivolous amendment. They do not take him seriously? No,

it is not a frivolous amendment. It is not

it is not a frivolous amendment. It is not as if

it is not a frivolous amendment. It is not as if the James

it is not a frivolous amendment. It is not as if the James Wharton bill

is a is not as if the James Wharton bill

is a work of is not as if the James Wharton bill

is a work of genius, it is not as if the James Wharton bill

is a work of genius, it is is not as if the James Wharton bill

is a work of genius, it is riddled with

is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes.

is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes.

It purports to guarantee that with flaws, anomalies and loopholes.

It purports to guarantee that a referendum

It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place

It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in

It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the

next Parliament. referendum will take place in the

next Parliament. My understanding of the

next Parliament. My understanding of the constitution is that

next Parliament. My understanding of the constitution is that is

theoretically impossible the constitution is that is

theoretically impossible and that all

theoretically impossible and that all the future government would do

is all the future government would do

is cancel out all the future government would do

is cancel out that bill all the future government would do

is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that

is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that

is cancel out that bill with another Cameron's plan

bill. He does have a point that Cameron's plan for a

bill. He does have a point that Cameron's plan for a referendum is

nothing Cameron's plan for a referendum is

nothing like as likely to happen... Cameron's plan for a referendum is

nothing like as likely to happen... Hung parliaments, frivolous

amendments can be immensely dangerous.

amendments can be immensely dangerous. The problem for David

amendments can be immensely dangerous. The problem for David

Cameron is twofold. dangerous. The problem for David

Cameron is twofold. One, if dangerous. The problem for David

Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed dangerous. The problem for David

Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support

Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support

Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband

Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would do

Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would do

Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he

Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to

his MPs, that, but what he might do is say to

his MPs, ignore this. It may that, but what he might do is say to

his MPs, ignore this. It may well be that

his MPs, ignore this. It may well be that the Labour payroll

his MPs, ignore this. It may well be that the Labour payroll and a

significant number that the Labour payroll and a

significant number of Labour MPs do that the Labour payroll and a

significant number of Labour MPs do not turn up,

significant number of Labour MPs do not turn up, and then what

significant number of Labour MPs do not turn up, and then what you have

got is a war not turn up, and then what you have

got is a war between the Conservative

got is a war between the Conservative payroll and

got is a war between the Conservative payroll and the

Conservative backbenchers, Conservative payroll and the

Conservative backbenchers, and in that

Conservative backbenchers, and in that war you

Conservative backbenchers, and in that war you might well find

Conservative backbenchers, and in that war you might well find that

Adam Afriyie's amendment goes through,

Adam Afriyie's amendment goes through, and then the Prime

Adam Afriyie's amendment goes through, and then the Prime Minister

has real through, and then the Prime Minister

has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister

has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister

could Afriyie says, the Prime Minister

could renegotiate terms of Afriyie says, the Prime Minister

could renegotiate terms of membership, up what

could renegotiate terms of membership, up what basis and

could renegotiate terms of membership, up what basis and with

which membership, up what basis and with

which mandate? He membership, up what basis and with

which mandate? He would not be able to

which mandate? He would not be able to get agreement

which mandate? He would not be able to get agreement with Nick

which mandate? He would not be able to get agreement with Nick Clegg or

Ed to get agreement with Nick Clegg or

Ed Miliband, so you would be to get agreement with Nick Clegg or

Ed Miliband, so you would be looking at

Ed Miliband, so you would be looking at Adam Afriyie voting

Ed Miliband, so you would be looking at Adam Afriyie voting to leave.

Ed Miliband, so you would be looking at Adam Afriyie voting to leave. I

think he is a Labour at Adam Afriyie voting to leave. I

think he is a Labour mole, that at Adam Afriyie voting to leave. I

think he is a Labour mole, that is what I have come to, a Daily

think he is a Labour mole, that is what I have come to, a Daily Mail

style conspiracy what I have come to, a Daily Mail

style conspiracy theory, it could not be more

style conspiracy theory, it could not be more perfect. The prospect

style conspiracy theory, it could not be more perfect. The prospect of

style conspiracy theory, it could a referendum

style conspiracy theory, it could a referendum on the

style conspiracy theory, it could a referendum on the EU at the same

time as a referendum on the EU at the same

time as Scottish independence a referendum on the EU at the same

time as Scottish independence is what

time as Scottish independence is what no-one once, so that is it.

time as Scottish independence is what no-one once, so that is it. He

has what no-one once, so that is it. He

has told us he what no-one once, so that is it. He

has told us he could not sleep at what no-one once, so that is it. He

has told us he could not sleep at night, wrestling

has told us he could not sleep at night, wrestling with his

conscience. We could send him some pills,

conscience. We could send him some pills, I suppose. We know he's going

to pills, I suppose. We know he's going

to sack all pills, I suppose. We know he's going

to sack all those lieutenants were pills, I suppose. We know he's going

to sack all those lieutenants pills, I suppose. We know he's going

going around pills, I suppose. We know he's going

going around and saying he is the pills, I suppose. We know he's going

going around and saying he is the great future and the

going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader

going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of

going around and saying he is the the Conservative

great future and the next leader of the Conservative Party. He

great future and the next leader of the Conservative Party. He denied

doing that! He would be amazed to the Conservative Party. He denied

doing that! He would be amazed to hear you

doing that! He would be amazed to hear you say that,

doing that! He would be amazed to hear you say that, this is a

doing that! He would be amazed to hear you say that, this is a crisis

doing that! He would be amazed to of conscience.

hear you say that, this is a crisis of conscience. Whispered

conversations in corridors, of conscience. Whispered

conversations in corridors, quite an operation to get

conversations in corridors, quite an operation to get letters into

conversations in corridors, quite an operation to get letters into Graham

Brady, operation to get letters into Graham

Brady, he said operation to get letters into Graham

Brady, he said to have letters, not 46, but at the

Brady, he said to have letters, not 46, but at the moment this campaign

Brady, he said to have letters, not 46, but at the moment this campaign

is being run by Lieutenant of Adam Afriyie.

is being run by Lieutenant of Adam Afriyie. He has got

is being run by Lieutenant of Adam Afriyie. He has got lieutenants?

They are disaffected and not Afriyie. He has got lieutenants?

They are disaffected and not happy under

They are disaffected and not happy under David Cameron's leadership.

They are disaffected and not happy under David Cameron's leadership.

There is a whole army of under David Cameron's leadership.

There is a whole army of them! I am under David Cameron's leadership.

There is a whole army of them! I am pleased he

There is a whole army of them! I am pleased he has outmanoeuvred the

There is a whole army of them! I am pleased he has outmanoeuvred the

awkward squad, pleased he has outmanoeuvred the

awkward squad, and now James Wharton is

awkward squad, and now James Wharton is saying, you're going

awkward squad, and now James Wharton is saying, you're going to kill

awkward squad, and now James Wharton is saying, you're going to kill my

bill. I do not is saying, you're going to kill my

bill. I do not think they are is saying, you're going to kill my

bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main

political consequence of this competence lieutenants. The main

political consequence of competence lieutenants. The main

episode is political consequence of this

episode is it will unify a political consequence of this

episode is it will unify a large chunk of the Colin Hendry

episode is it will unify a large chunk of the Colin Hendry

Conservative Party behind chunk of the Colin Hendry

Conservative Party behind David Cameron. On what they hope is a

Conservative Party behind David Cameron. On what they hope is a

settled position. We still hope to be

settled position. We still hope to be talking to John

settled position. We still hope to be talking to John Prescott, who is

in hole, be talking to John Prescott, who is

in hole, if you be talking to John Prescott, who is

in hole, if you see him, pointing be talking to John Prescott, who is

in hole, if you see him, pointing in the

in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios!

in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do

in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios!

in hole, if you see him, pointing in you want to

in hole, if you see him, pointing in you want to buy a

in hole, if you see him, pointing in you want to buy a house? Can you

in hole, if you see him, pointing in you want to buy a house? Can you

afford the mortgage repayments you want to buy a house? Can you

afford the mortgage repayments but not

afford the mortgage repayments but not the 20% or 30% deposit the

mortgage provider is demanding from you?

mortgage provider is demanding from you? The Government says it has a

mortgage provider is demanding from you? The Government says it has a

scheme designed you? The Government says it has a

scheme designed for you which is in launching next

scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to

scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to buy,

and it should launching next week, help to buy,

and it should lead to the re-emergence of 95%

and it should lead to the re-emergence of 95% mortgages,

remember re-emergence of 95% mortgages,

remember them?! But is re-emergence of 95% mortgages,

remember them?! But is the policy re-emergence of 95% mortgages,

remember them?! But is the policy really good

remember them?! But is the policy really good for home-buyers or the

British economy? Here is Giles. Never mind who lives in

British economy? Here is Giles. Never mind who lives in a house like

this, Never mind who lives in a house like

this, who can Never mind who lives in a house like

this, who can afford to Never mind who lives in a house like

this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government

this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government would

this, who can afford to buy a house like many

this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to

this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to be able to

this, who can afford to buy a house without putting down a crippling

amount without putting down a crippling

amount of money as a without putting down a crippling

amount of money as a deposit, and in the spirit of

amount of money as a deposit, and in the spirit of rights to buy, the

amount of money as a deposit, and in the spirit of rights to buy, the

government has launched help the spirit of rights to buy, the

government has launched help to buy, the spirit of rights to buy, the

government has launched help to buy, confusingly it is the

government has launched help to buy, confusingly it is the name for two

government has launched help to buy, confusingly it is the name for two

different confusingly it is the name for two

different schemes. The first scheme, Help to Buy 1, has

been running since April. Help to Buy

been running since April. Help to Buy 2 was

been running since April. Help to Buy 2 was supposed to come

been running since April. Help to Buy 2 was supposed to come in

January next Buy 2 was supposed to come in

January next year, but the Buy 2 was supposed to come in

January next year, but the government are bringing it in early.

January next year, but the government are bringing it in early.

Let's get in on the inside government are bringing it in early.

Let's get in on the inside and take government are bringing it in early.

Let's get in on the inside and government are bringing it in early.

a good look government are bringing it in early.

a good look around at what government are bringing it in early.

a good look around at what this scheme actually has to

a good look around at what this scheme actually has to offer. And

why the Government scheme actually has to offer. And

why the Government thinks it scheme actually has to offer. And

why the Government thinks it really works. Help to Buy

why the Government thinks it really works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity

loan scheme. The idea, nice, is that it was

loan scheme. The idea, nice, is that it was for new build

loan scheme. The idea, nice, is that it was for new build only, up to

loan scheme. The idea, nice, is that it was for new build only, up to a

value of £600,000. But it is Help it was for new build only, up to a

value of £600,000. But it is Help to Buy

value of £600,000. But it is Help to Buy 2 that

value of £600,000. But it is Help to Buy 2 that everyone is looking

value of £600,000. But it is Help to Buy 2 that everyone is looking into

right now. Buy 2 that everyone is looking into

right now. It is for Buy 2 that everyone is looking into

right now. It is for any property Buy 2 that everyone is looking into

right now. It is for any property up to a

right now. It is for any property up to a value, again, of £600,000. This

time to a value, again, of £600,000. This

time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first

time the Government is guaranteeing losses should the

time the Government is guaranteeing losses should the home owner in

time the Government is guaranteeing losses should the home owner in the

future failed to make their losses should the home owner in the

future failed to make their mortgage payments.

future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about

future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if

you are a buyer, you payments. Don't worry about that, if

you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned

you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the

you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the

5% deposit and concerned about coming up with the

5% deposit and 95% mortgages concerned about coming up with the

5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating

5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating

banks and building societies. And that, the Prime

banks and building societies. And that, the Prime Minister thinks, is

a housing that, the Prime Minister thinks, is

a housing prime mover. You cannot a housing prime mover. You cannot

get training to a housing prime mover. You cannot

get training to 5% mortgage a housing prime mover. You cannot

get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even,

get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples

get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples in

our country who 90% even, so there are couples in

our country who have good jobs, 90% even, so there are couples in

our country who have good jobs, decent incomes,

our country who have good jobs, decent incomes, they could

our country who have good jobs, the mortgage

decent incomes, they could afford the mortgage payments but they

cannot buy the the mortgage payments but they

cannot buy the house. It is the mortgage payments but they

cannot buy the house. It is a failure in our banking market. So

cannot buy the house. It is a that is

failure in our banking market. So that is the Prime Minister,

Jonathan, but I guess that is the Prime Minister,

Jonathan, but I guess for you this that is the Prime Minister,

Jonathan, but I guess for you this is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a

scheme is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a

scheme which should be is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a

scheme which should be hammered. The is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a

scheme which should be hammered. The main impact of this scheme will

scheme which should be hammered. The main impact of this scheme will be

to push up prices, main impact of this scheme will be

to push up prices, who does that main impact of this scheme will be

to push up prices, who does that benefit? Mostly rich and all the

people who benefit? Mostly rich and all the

people who own their houses. benefit? Mostly rich and all the

people who own their houses. Plus the banks, of course, because it is

a subsidy for them. the banks, of course, because it is

a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want

a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want to buy

a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want to buy a house in

the People who want to buy a house in

the future. Moreover, People who want to buy a house in

the future. Moreover, it is People who want to buy a house in

the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd

the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says

the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says it is

the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says it is

not OK to borrow to finance schools or

not OK to borrow to finance schools or roads, but it is

not OK to borrow to finance schools or roads, but it is fine for the

Government to take on more or roads, but it is fine for the

Government to take on more debt, effectively, in order to

Government to take on more debt, effectively, in order to guarantee

95% mortgages effectively, in order to guarantee

95% mortgages and pump up effectively, in order to guarantee

95% mortgages and pump up the housing market.

95% mortgages and pump up the housing market. 2.3 million? I do

95% mortgages and pump up the housing market. 2.3 million? I do

not think Help housing market. 2.3 million? I do

not think Help to Buy covers that. housing market. 2.3 million? I do

not think Help to Buy covers that. But enter a would-be

not think Help to Buy covers that. But enter a would-be buyer, will

they But enter a would-be buyer, will

they now be But enter a would-be buyer, will

they now be seeing a plethora But enter a would-be buyer, will

they now be seeing a plethora of help

they now be seeing a plethora of help to buy

they now be seeing a plethora of help to buy mortgages? In a

they now be seeing a plethora of help to buy mortgages? In a word,

no. David Cameron has brought the announcement

no. David Cameron has brought the announcement forward by three

no. David Cameron has brought the announcement forward by three

months, and banks were announcement forward by three

months, and banks were not announcement forward by three

months, and banks were not ready at that stage. Two banks have

months, and banks were not ready at that stage. Two banks have committed

to fund the scheme, that stage. Two banks have committed

to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the

to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group,

to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group, so lenders like

to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group, so lenders like

Halifax, RBS and NatWest. and the RBS group, so lenders like

Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme,

Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme, but even once

Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme, but even once

the scheme is be doing the scheme, but even once

the scheme is up and running be doing the scheme, but even once

the scheme is up and running you are be doing the scheme, but even once

the scheme is up and running you be doing the scheme, but even once

not going the scheme is up and running you are

not going to see Help to the scheme is up and running you are

not going to see Help to Buy mortgages badged up.

not going to see Help to Buy mortgages badged up. You will

not going to see Help to Buy mortgages badged up. You will

probably find 95% mortgages on mortgages badged up. You will

probably find 95% mortgages on the mortgages badged up. You will

high street probably find 95% mortgages on the

high street because of probably find 95% mortgages on the

high street because of the guarantee probably find 95% mortgages on the

the government high street because of the guarantee

the government is offering. People might say

the government is offering. People might say this is how

the government is offering. People might say this is how we got

the government is offering. People might say this is how we got into a

the government is offering. People might say this is how we got into a

mess might say this is how we got into a

mess in the first might say this is how we got into a

mess in the first place. Why would might say this is how we got into a

mess in the first place. Why would the government

mess in the first place. Why would the government want to

mess in the first place. Why would the government want to make those

products the government want to make those

products available then now? It was the government want to make those

more what products available then now? It was

more what investment banks were doing in

more what investment banks were doing in the background

more what investment banks were doing in the background that caused

more what investment banks were doing in the background that caused

the problems. doing in the background that caused

the problems. Mortgages have doing in the background that caused

performed extremely well through the depths of the

performed extremely well through the depths of the downturn. Is this a

game changer? Yes, I have done my best

game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save

game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last

game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years

game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few

game changer? Yes, I have done my but this has

game changer? Yes, I have done my but this has enabled me to make

game changer? Yes, I have done my but this has enabled me to make that

first but this has enabled me to make that

first purchase. How frustrating was but this has enabled me to make that

first purchase. How frustrating was it just

first purchase. How frustrating was it just renting? Very frustrating,

first purchase. How frustrating was it just renting? Very frustrating,

you are throwing away it just renting? Very frustrating,

you are throwing away money hand over fist, and now

you are throwing away money hand over fist, and now I can take that

you are throwing away money hand over fist, and now I can take that

leap to being an owner. over fist, and now I can take that

leap to being an owner. His enthusiasm raises a

leap to being an owner. His enthusiasm raises a question back at

leap to being an owner. His enthusiasm raises a question back

leap to being an owner. His the flat. If you are looking for a

95% the flat. If you are looking for a

95% mortgage, you the flat. If you are looking for a

95% mortgage, you don't really the flat. If you are looking for a

95% mortgage, you don't really care what

95% mortgage, you don't really care what will happen in

95% mortgage, you don't really care what will happen in the wider

economy, you are thinking, great, I can

economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was

economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a

house buyer or a can buy a house. Yes, if I was a

house buyer or a bank, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a

house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased,

house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term

economic damage. The pleased, but it will do longer term

economic damage. The tricky steps the government are

economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to

economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull

off is that home-buyers might be so the government are trying to pull

off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the

off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the opportunity to buy

their grateful for the opportunity to buy

their own homes grateful for the opportunity to buy

their own homes that they reward the grateful for the opportunity to buy

their own homes that they reward the Government with the

their own homes that they reward the Government with the vote, while at

the same time Government with the vote, while at

the same time the Government tries to sidestep consequences that such a

scheme might create. Now Conservative

scheme might create. Now Conservative MP Margot James,

and and Allister Heath, editor of City

AM, go head to head. and Allister Heath, editor of City

AM, go head to head. It is

AM, go head to head. It is said by the

AM, go head to head. It is said by the critics that this

AM, go head to head. It is said by the critics that this

scheme will cause a housing It is said by the critics that this

scheme will cause a housing bubble. Where

scheme will cause a housing bubble. Where is the

scheme will cause a housing bubble. Where is the evidence? House prices

are Where is the evidence? House prices

are more varied. Housing not just in Where is the evidence? House prices

are more varied. Housing not just Where is the evidence? House prices

London remains overvalued Where is the evidence? House prices

London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is

London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it

will problem with this scheme is that it

will pump up house prices, problem with this scheme is that it

will pump up house prices, it will not increase the

will pump up house prices, it will not increase the supply and

therefore not increase the supply and

therefore houses will become even more

therefore houses will become even more overvalued. That is a dangerous

territory, more overvalued. That is a dangerous

territory, last time it more overvalued. That is a dangerous

territory, last time it ended in tears, and now

territory, last time it ended in tears, and now the Government

territory, last time it ended in tears, and now the Government is

territory, last time it ended in tears, and now the Government is

taking on the risk of tears, and now the Government is

taking on the risk of that policy. tears, and now the Government is

taking on the risk of that policy. What do you

taking on the risk of that policy. What do you say to that?

taking on the risk of that policy. What do you say to that? We have a

real problem, What do you say to that? We have a

real problem, it takes people on What do you say to that? We have a

real problem, it takes people on average until they are 38

real problem, it takes people on average until they are 38 years old

until they can buy their average until they are 38 years old

until they can buy their own property.

until they can buy their own property. The problem is

until they can buy their own property. The problem is not that

they cannot afford it, but property. The problem is not that

they cannot afford it, but they cannot afford the deposit.

they cannot afford it, but they cannot afford the deposit. We have

got to do something to cannot afford the deposit. We have

got to do something to allow people cannot afford the deposit. We have

to get got to do something to allow people

to get their feet on the property got to do something to allow people

to get their feet on the property ladder and I

to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it

to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will

cause a ladder and I don't agree it will

cause a boom in house prices. ladder and I don't agree it will

cause a boom in house prices. It would if we

cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any

new houses, would if we were not building any

new houses, but we are. would if we were not building any

new houses, but we are. Are you? would if we were not building any

new houses, but we are. Are you? We have had

new houses, but we are. Are you? We have had a record this year, 12

months to have had a record this year, 12

months to right now, have had a record this year, 12

months to right now, the record for the last ten

months to right now, the record for the last ten years. These are not

the statistics I have the last ten years. These are not

the statistics I have seen, but the the last ten years. These are not

the statistics I have seen, but the new supply is coming

the statistics I have seen, but the new supply is coming up. It is

the statistics I have seen, but the new supply is coming up. It is

starting to creep up. new supply is coming up. It is

starting to creep up. We don't see new supply is coming up. It is

starting to creep up. We don't see enough house

starting to creep up. We don't see enough house building, need to

starting to creep up. We don't see enough house building, need to build

more enough house building, need to build

more houses and that enough house building, need to build

more houses and that is a solution to

more houses and that is a solution to this problem. You are

more houses and that is a solution to this problem. You are right,

people cannot afford to buy homes and the reason is

people cannot afford to buy homes and the reason is there are not

enough and the reason is there are not

enough good quality and the reason is there are not

enough good quality homes in the and the reason is there are not

right places. The reason the and the reason is there are not

right places. The reason the deposits are so high is because

right places. The reason the deposits are so high is because

house prices are still too deposits are so high is because

house prices are still too high, and secondly the

house prices are still too high, and secondly the Government has passed

house prices are still too high, and secondly the Government has passed

laws to secondly the Government has passed

laws to make the banking system more secondly the Government has passed

prudent, telling laws to make the banking system more

prudent, telling them to put more money

prudent, telling them to put more money aside in case things go

prudent, telling them to put more money aside in case things go

wrong. Now suddenly the Government money aside in case things go

wrong. Now suddenly the Government is not

wrong. Now suddenly the Government is not happy with the outcome of its

own rules and is is not happy with the outcome of its

own rules and is trying to create these

own rules and is trying to create these subsidies to

own rules and is trying to create these subsidies to circumvent the

rules these subsidies to circumvent the

rules it has put in place. these subsidies to circumvent the

rules it has put in place. It is not a

rules it has put in place. It is not a subsidy. Don't forget

rules it has put in place. It is not a subsidy. Don't forget banks have

to pay a a subsidy. Don't forget banks have

to pay a charge in order to a subsidy. Don't forget banks have

to pay a charge in order to take part in this loan scheme

to pay a charge in order to take part in this loan scheme and that

the... part in this loan scheme and that

the... You are guaranteeing the money.

the... You are guaranteeing the money. Yes, but the

the... You are guaranteeing the money. Yes, but the fear is worked

out on a money. Yes, but the fear is worked

out on a commercial basis. The taxpayer is

out on a commercial basis. The taxpayer is protected. Why? You are

guaranteeing £12 taxpayer is protected. Why? You are

guaranteeing £12 billion worth of taxpayer is protected. Why? You are

guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes

guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the

change in mortgages per year. Yes but the

change in the whole mortgage mortgages per year. Yes but the

change in the whole mortgage basis has

change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years

change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in

change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in

response of the has been made a few years ago in

response of the crash. They made the response of the crash. They made the

distressed test on people response of the crash. They made the

distressed test on people applying for mortgages

distressed test on people applying for mortgages much higher and you

have for mortgages much higher and you

have to be able to repay at twice... So it will not be like

have to be able to repay at these self certification mortgages

have to be able to repay at these self certification mortgages

handed out in these self certification mortgages

handed out in America that caused the sub-prime crisis?

handed out in America that caused the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit

handed out in America that caused the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit

like that but the the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit

like that but the banks the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit

like that but the banks are the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit

like that but the banks are rightly the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit

asking for like that but the banks are rightly

asking for bigger deposits, they know there is

asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big

asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big chance house

prices know there is a big chance house

prices could fall if know there is a big chance house

prices could fall if interest rates will go up, which they will

eventually, so they are will go up, which they will

eventually, so they are demanding bigger

eventually, so they are demanding bigger deposits. The

eventually, so they are demanding bigger deposits. The Government is

making bigger deposits. The Government is

making sure the risk of circumventing this is

making sure the risk of circumventing this is being passed

on to the circumventing this is being passed

on to the taxpayers which circumventing this is being passed

on to the taxpayers which is why it is a dangerous

on to the taxpayers which is why it is a dangerous policy. Instead they

should be massively accelerating house-building. Which we

should be massively accelerating house-building. Which we are.

Planning permission is much house-building. Which we are.

Planning permission is much easier to get now, we

Planning permission is much easier to get now, we have seen a 49%

Planning permission is much easier to get now, we have seen a 49%

Planning permission is much easier increase in planning permission for

a new building over the increase in planning permission for

a new building over the last year, a huge increase.

a new building over the last year, a huge increase. In the

a new building over the last year, a huge increase. In the figures I saw

recently, they showed new huge increase. In the figures I saw

recently, they showed new start in the

recently, they showed new start in the 12 months

recently, they showed new start in the 12 months to the

recently, they showed new start in the 12 months to the autumn were

only about 110,000 which is the figure you inherited, which was at

an all-time low in 2010. figure you inherited, which was at

an all-time low in 2010. New house figure you inherited, which was at

an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the

an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are third

an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are

an all-time low in 2010. New house up on

built in the last quarter are third up on the time last

built in the last quarter are third up on the time last year. You have

got to give up on the time last year. You have

got to give a chance for the relaxation

got to give a chance for the relaxation of planning

got to give a chance for the relaxation of planning laws and the

got to give a chance for the relaxation of planning laws and the

other policies the relaxation of planning laws and the

other policies the Government put into effect

other policies the Government put into effect last year

other policies the Government put into effect last year to take

other policies the Government put into effect last year to take effect

and it is into effect last year to take effect

and it is coming through into effect last year to take effect

and it is coming through now. I agree,

and it is coming through now. I agree, if we

and it is coming through now. I agree, if we weren't building more

houses, agree, if we weren't building more

houses, if the construction agree, if we weren't building more

houses, if the construction sector was not

houses, if the construction sector was not really ready to take

advantage of the increased demand, was not really ready to take

advantage of the increased demand, was not really ready to take

there would advantage of the increased demand,

there would be a advantage of the increased demand,

there would be a risk. David Cameron says

there would be a risk. David Cameron says you are

there would be a risk. David Cameron says you are snob and

there would be a risk. David Cameron says you are snob and it is

there would be a risk. David Cameron says you are snob and it is only

snobs says you are snob and it is only

snobs who dislike Help says you are snob and it is only

snobs who dislike Help To Buy. says you are snob and it is only

snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They don't

snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They don't have the bank of

snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They don't have the bank of mum and dad,

people like that will finally get don't have the bank of mum and dad,

people like that will finally get on the housing

people like that will finally get on the housing ladder. That is complete

nonsense. We the housing ladder. That is complete

nonsense. We need a sustainable housing market

nonsense. We need a sustainable housing market where there

nonsense. We need a sustainable housing market where there is a

nonsense. We need a sustainable housing market where there is a

large amount of construction, like in the 1930s for example, where

large numbers of proper in the 1930s for example, where

large numbers of proper family homes were

large numbers of proper family homes were being built

large numbers of proper family homes were being built for people. House

prices were being built for people. House

prices were pushed down and people were being built for people. House

prices were pushed down and people could afford houses.

prices were pushed down and people could afford houses. You are now

prices were pushed down and people could afford houses. You are now

encouraging people could afford houses. You are now

encouraging people to could afford houses. You are now

encouraging people to take out could afford houses. You are now

encouraging people to take out a 95% could afford houses. You are now

encouraging people to take out a 95% mortgage, I

encouraging people to take out a 95% mortgage, I thought that was a

encouraging people to take out a 95% mortgage, I thought that was a bad

idea, mortgage, I thought that was a bad

idea, so supposing mortgage, I thought that was a bad

idea, so supposing interest rates go up

idea, so supposing interest rates go up by a lot,

idea, so supposing interest rates go up by a lot, I am

idea, so supposing interest rates go up by a lot, I am going to

struggle, and supposing up by a lot, I am going to

struggle, and supposing house prices up by a lot, I am going to

struggle, and supposing house prices fall by

struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced

with negative equity and soaring interest rates

with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot

with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford.

95% mortgage, interest rates that I cannot afford.

95% mortgage, if you can afford the repayments, you

95% mortgage, if you can afford the repayments, you will be

95% mortgage, if you can afford the repayments, you will be fine. What

happens when interest rates rise? They have got

happens when interest rates rise? They have got to rise a lot

happens when interest rates rise? They have got to rise a lot before

you get into They have got to rise a lot before

you get into trouble. People are already

you get into trouble. People are already affording rent which is

you get into trouble. People are already affording rent which is a

lot higher than mortgage payments. already affording rent which is a

lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be

lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get

lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into

this scheme unless you You will not be able to get into

this scheme unless you can afford this scheme unless you can afford

repayments double what this scheme unless you can afford

repayments double what they are at the

repayments double what they are at the moment. The Conservatives should

have been the moment. The Conservatives should

have been enjoying the media the moment. The Conservatives should

have been enjoying the media limelight last

have been enjoying the media limelight last week but there

have been enjoying the media limelight last week but there was an

have been enjoying the media limelight last week but there was an

unwelcome intruder in limelight last week but there was an

unwelcome intruder in the shape of limelight last week but there was an

unwelcome intruder in the shape of a row between Ed Miliband and the

Daily row between Ed Miliband and the

Daily Mail. Just over row between Ed Miliband and the

Daily Mail. Just over a week ago row between Ed Miliband and the

Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the

Daily Mail printed an Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the

Daily Mail printed an article claiming that Ed

Daily Mail printed an article claiming that Ed Miliband's Father

Ralph hated claiming that Ed Miliband's Father

Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone

with the caption, picture of his father's gravestone

with the caption, grave socialist. picture of his father's gravestone

with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and

with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and gave

Ed They then removed the photo and gave

Ed Miliband the They then removed the photo and gave

Ed Miliband the right to They then removed the photo and gave

Ed Miliband the right to reply on the

Ed Miliband the right to reply on the Tuesday edition, but also

printed an the Tuesday edition, but also

printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word they

printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word they

published an saying they stood by every word they

published an fair headline. saying they stood by every word they

published an fair headline. It also saying they stood by every word they

published an fair headline. It also emerged in the week that the

published an fair headline. It also emerged in the week that the

reporter had emerged in the week that the

reporter had gate-crashed a private emerged in the week that the

reporter had gate-crashed a private memorial service for Ed Miliband's

uncle in memorial service for Ed Miliband's

uncle in a London memorial service for Ed Miliband's

uncle in a London hospital, for which the

uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now

uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now apologised,

but Ed which the paper has now apologised,

but Ed Miliband has which the paper has now apologised,

but Ed Miliband has called on the which the paper has now apologised,

but Ed Miliband has called on the Daily Mail

but Ed Miliband has called on the Daily Mail owner to

but Ed Miliband has called on the Daily Mail owner to take a long,

but Ed Miliband has called on the Daily Mail owner to take a long,

hard look at the way his papers are Daily Mail owner to take a long,

hard look at the way his papers are run. This

hard look at the way his papers are run. This comes a week before a new

system of press run. This comes a week before a new

system of press regulation is run. This comes a week before a new

considered at system of press regulation is

considered at the Privy Council. system of press regulation is

considered at the Privy Council. Joining us now from

considered at the Privy Council. Joining us now from Hull, John

considered at the Privy Council. Joining us now from Hull, John

Prescott. Does this Joining us now from Hull, John

Prescott. Does this row between Ed Joining us now from Hull, John

Prescott. Does this row between Joining us now from Hull, John

Miliband and the Daily Joining us now from Hull, John

Miliband and the Daily Mail reinforce the

Miliband and the Daily Mail reinforce the case for

Miliband and the Daily Mail reinforce the case for tough, new

regulation of the press? It certainly influences the opinion

about certainly influences the opinion

about that but certainly influences the opinion

about that but that is more certainly influences the opinion

about that but that is more of Paul Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband

about that but that is more of Paul Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang me

while I Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang me

while I was in Strasbourg Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang me

while I was in Strasbourg making sure my complaints were nothing to

do sure my complaints were nothing to

do with press regulation sure my complaints were nothing to

do with press regulation and he sure my complaints were nothing to

do with press regulation and he is sure my complaints were nothing to

right. This argument sure my complaints were nothing to

right. This argument is not about politicians and

right. This argument is not about politicians and media people,

right. This argument is not about politicians and media people, it is

about politicians and media people, it is

about ordinary people politicians and media people, it is

about ordinary people that love this politicians and media people, it is

about ordinary people that love this politicians and media people, it is

and dealt about ordinary people that love this

and dealt with. All of these cases affected

and dealt with. All of these cases affected individual people and

and dealt with. All of these cases affected individual people and they

and dealt with. All of these cases are the

affected individual people and they are the ones that need to

affected individual people and they are the ones that need to have

justice in are the ones that need to have

justice in this matter. Next are the ones that need to have

justice in this matter. Next week we are the ones that need to have

justice in this matter. Next week we will be hearing

justice in this matter. Next week we will be hearing whether the Privy

Council will be reporting on the proposal to replace

Council will be reporting on the proposal to replace it. Are

Council will be reporting on the proposal to replace it. Are you

agreeing proposal to replace it. Are you

agreeing then that what proposal to replace it. Are you

agreeing then that what the mail did proposal to replace it. Are you

agreeing then that what the mail did with its

agreeing then that what the mail did with its Miliband article was a

matter of with its Miliband article was a

matter of judgement? Yes, and the with its Miliband article was a

matter of judgement? Yes, and the with its Miliband article was a

Leveson inquiry came with its Miliband article was a

Leveson inquiry came to with its Miliband article was a

Leveson inquiry came to the conclusion that the relationship

Leveson inquiry came to the conclusion that the relationship

between the conclusion that the relationship

between the press, the police and politicians should be governed, but

this is politicians should be governed, but

this is about how you have a politicians should be governed, but

this is about how you have a framework that can be fair

this is about how you have a framework that can be fair to

everyone. If you look framework that can be fair to

everyone. If you look at the proposal given

everyone. If you look at the proposal given by half

everyone. If you look at the proposal given by half the press

everyone. If you look at the proposal given by half the press

industry that proposal given by half the press

industry that that does not meet the proposal given by half the press

industry that that does not meet the Leveson requirement and I suspect

the Leveson requirement and I suspect

the Privy Council Leveson requirement and I suspect

the Privy Council this week will Leveson requirement and I suspect

the Privy Council this week will have to reject

the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I

the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I hope it

will have to reject that, and I hope it

will because it is not consistent with the

will because it is not consistent with the Leveson report

will because it is not consistent with the Leveson report which the

Prime Minister with the Leveson report which the

Prime Minister said he supported. with the Leveson report which the

Prime Minister said he supported. You attacked the mail in your

Prime Minister said he supported. You attacked the mail in

Prime Minister said he supported. today but

You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went

You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went through

the Cameron family today but your paper went through

the Cameron family bins to see what nappies

the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their

the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their disabled

son. Isn't that far more offensive than what

son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily

son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote

son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote about

Ralph than what the Daily Mail wrote about

Ralph Miliband? It probably is, than what the Daily Mail wrote about

Ralph Miliband? It probably is, I couldn't

Ralph Miliband? It probably is, I couldn't defend that.

Ralph Miliband? It probably is, I couldn't defend that. I

Ralph Miliband? It probably is, I couldn't defend that. I have had

reporters going couldn't defend that. I have had

reporters going through my couldn't defend that. I have had

reporters going through my bins. Haven't we

reporters going through my bins. Haven't we all? Yes, but we

reporters going through my bins. Haven't we all? Yes, but we are

dealing Haven't we all? Yes, but we are

dealing with the Haven't we all? Yes, but we are

dealing with the judgement of Haven't we all? Yes, but we are

dealing with the judgement of editors who

dealing with the judgement of editors who acts unilaterally. Paul

Dacre is editors who acts unilaterally. Paul

Dacre is running this thing editors who acts unilaterally. Paul

Dacre is running this thing in the editors who acts unilaterally. Paul

Dacre is running this thing in the Mail. How can

Dacre is running this thing in the Mail. How can we accept their

Dacre is running this thing in the Mail. How can we accept their

judgement and Mail. How can we accept their

judgement and some accountability which

judgement and some accountability which the press have

judgement and some accountability which the press have accepted the

old PCC is which the press have accepted the

old PCC is no good. They which the press have accepted the

old PCC is no good. They are playing for

old PCC is no good. They are playing for time because if they reject it