Browse content similar to 03/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as | :00:40. | :00:53. | |
Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they | :01:18. | :01:18. | |
Later in the programme: Carwyn Jones should be covered up. | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
Later in the programme: Carwyn Jones says a referendum to devolve powers | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
over income tax can't happen unti the Treasury reforms the way it | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
funds the UK nations and regions. Just | :01:34. | :01:34. | |
authority is investigating -- investing thousands of pounds in a | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
GPS tracking system to keep tabs on its staff. | :01:40. | :01:48. | |
With me as always, the best and the brightest political panel, Helen | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt who will be tweeting their | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
humiliating climb-down is what they got wrong last week in the | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
programme. If this can happen it to a Cabinet minister, what hope is | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
there for anyone else? Thus the Home Affairs Select Committee concluded | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
what many already thought about the treatment of Andrew Mitchell by | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
three self-styled PC plebs. They met him to clear the air over what did | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
or did not happen when he was prevented from ramming his bike | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
through the Downing Street gates. But the officers gave the media and | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
inaccurate account of that meeting. Two of them are even accused of | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
misleading the Commons committee. The Independent Police Complaints | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
Commission will now reopen there enquiry. This is not a story about | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
Andrew Mitchell, it is about the police. Keith Vaz is often in high | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
dudgeon and this is the highest dad and I have seen him in for some | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
time. They could be held for contempt of Parliament and | :02:54. | :02:55. | |
technically they could be sent to prison. It has blown up into an | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
enormous story. I do not know what is worse, the police trying to | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
stitch up a Cabinet member and try to mislead the media or the | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
incompetence they have done it from day one. That is quite good. I would | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
sleep more soundly at night if I knew the pleas were good at this. It | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
is the incompetence that shocks me. And this is just a sideshow. We are | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
still waiting on the main report as to what exactly happened outside | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
Downing Street gates. But that not will be good for the police either. | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
The file has gone from the Metropolitan police to the CPS, so | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
we are limited about what we can say. This is about the police | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
Federation. They were set up under statute in 1990 as a deal in which a | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
police would not go on strike. This is a political campaign to get a | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
Cabinet minister out and the legacy of this is the police Federation | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
will have to be reformed. We will keep an eye on it. They were Ed | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
Miliband's union backers, they swung the Labour leadership for him in | :04:09. | :04:16. | |
2010. Now the Unite union looks like his biggest headache. The Sunday | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
Times has seen extracts of the report into the alleged vote rigging | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
to select a Labour candidate in Falkirk. There was evidence of | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
coercion and Gregory as well as deliberate attempt to frustrate the | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
enquiry. We will be speaking to Len McCluskey, the Unite union's General | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
Secretary, in a moment. First out the saga began an almost ended up | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
with the loss of 800 jobs at a petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
Unite were key players in the Grangemouth dispute and the union | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
headed by Len McCluskey has come under fire for its intimidator Tariq | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
tactics. In one instance demonstrators complete with an | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
inflatable rat picketed the home of a INEOS director. The police were | :05:03. | :05:10. | |
called. It was part of a strategy the union called leverage. But | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
turning up at people's houses seems to represent an escalation. At the | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
centre of the rout was Steve in deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
launched an investigation into him as he was suspected of using company | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
time to engineer the selection of labour's candidate in Falkirk. That | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
resigned last week and denies any wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic | :05:43. | :05:53. | |
climb-down by Unite union. Len McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
the Sunday Times we now know what is in this labour report on the Falkirk | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
vote rigging. Forgery, coercion, trickery, manipulation. You must be | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
ashamed of how Unite union behaved in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
is lazy journalism. There is nothing new in the article. This was all | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
dealt with by the Labour Party in the summer. We rejected those | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
allegations then and we said we had done nothing wrong and both the | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
Labour Party and the police in Scotland indicated there had been no | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
wrongdoing. The report itself says you were trying to thwart the | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
investigation. First you tried to fix the selection of a candidate to | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
get your woman in and then you thwarted the investigation into the | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
dirty deeds. The reality is the Labour Party report was deeply | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
flawed. The Labour Party then instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
do an in-depth investigation and during that investigation they got | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
to the bottom of what had happened and they decided there was no | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I was so confident we had done | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
nothing, I called for an independent enquiry. They were forced to | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
conclude there was no wrongdoing because the people who originally | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
complained changed their evidence and we now know they did so because | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
Unite union officials helped them to rewrite their retraction and Stevie | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
Deans approved it. That is not true. We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
the public arena and what is that all about? Who is leaking this? They | :07:46. | :07:53. | |
showed the Unite union was rewriting the retractions. This interview | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
would go a lot better if you are allowed me to finish the question | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
that you asked. These e-mails were put into the public arena by the PR | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
company from INEOS. Why are they doing this? The truth of the matter | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
is that all of the investigations that took place demonstrate there | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
was nothing to answer. This idea that the Unite union has rewritten | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
and the evidence from the families has been withdrawn, the families are | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
a part of Stevie deems' family. They clarified the position. Do you deny | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
that union officials were involved in the retractions? I deny it | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
completely. This is important. Independent solicitors to witness | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
statements from the family and they are the ones that were influencing | :08:52. | :08:59. | |
the Labour Party with the position is clarified and there is no case to | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw their retractions? It is his family. | :09:05. | :09:14. | |
So you do not deny it? It is his family. This is an ordinary, decent | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
family who were faced with the full weight of the pleas, a forensic | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
solicitor. Of course they spoke to Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
cesspit. Does it not need an independent investigation? This is a | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all the | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
demands. The media, the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, the Conservative | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
mouthpiece, they are laying tracks for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
should not fall into them. Since when did it become part of an | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
industrial dispute to send mobs to the home of company families. This | :10:01. | :10:09. | |
is a legitimate form of protest and it is a silent protest. We believe | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
if faceless directors are making decisions that cripple communities, | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
they cannot expect to simply drift back to their own leafy suburbia and | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
not be countable. This is silent protest. It is lawful. It may be | :10:29. | :10:36. | |
silent in Grangemouth, but it was not silent elsewhere. You went with | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
a giant rat, loud-hailers telling everybody the neighbour was evil. | :10:41. | :10:48. | |
No, we did not. You had loud-hailers, you even encouraged | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
passing children in Grangemouth to join in. That is nonsense. Look at | :10:55. | :11:05. | |
the rat. The reality is the Grangemouth community was going to | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
be decimated, Grangemouth was going to become a ghost town. I reject | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
totally this idea there were loud-hailers and children involved. | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
That is a lie perpetrated by the Daily Mail. But you have used these | :11:20. | :11:27. | |
tactics in other disputes. We have used the tactics in other disputes, | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
but we have not used loud-hailers at people's homes. Because the labour | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
laws are so restrictive we have to look at every available means that | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
we can protest. It is an outrage, an absolute outrage, that this is | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
happening to British workers in the 21st-century. It could not happen | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
elsewhere. Is not intimidation the wider hallmark of your union? You | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
were quoted as saying to do whatever it takes during your attempts to | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
take over the Labour Falkirk constituency. You were instructing | :12:07. | :12:15. | |
to dig out the nasty stuff on your opponents. That is not true. Let's | :12:16. | :12:24. | |
see these e-mails? This is a con trick. Nobody is looking to dig | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
out... This is the words of your legal services advisor. Unite has | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
tried to instigate a revival of trade union values within the Labour | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
Party. That is what Ed Miliband wanted us to do. As soon as we | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
started to be in any way ineffective, there were screams and | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
howls of derision. When the company started to investigate Stevie Deans, | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
your friend, your campaign manager, that he was using company time to | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
moonlight on the job, you called INEOS and said unless you stop the | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
investigation we will bring Grangemouth to a standstill. I never | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
said that at all. You brought it to a standstill. We never brought it to | :13:14. | :13:22. | |
a standstill, the company did. Who says that I said that we would bring | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
it to a standstill? You have read it in the newspapers. You should not | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
believe everything. I did not make that threat to the management. You | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
carried the threat out. You instigated an overtime ban and a | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
work to rule. And that is what Grangemouth to a standstill because | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
the company decided to close the petrochemical site down. Because | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
Stevie Deans was suspended due introduced industrial action? Our | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
members in Grangemouth felt he was being unfairly treated. In the end | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
you're grandstanding almost cost Scotland is most important | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
industrial facility. The day was saved by your total capitulation. | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
Grandstanding, capitulation and humiliation are grand phrases. There | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
is nothing about capitulation. Len McCluskey did not wake up one day | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
and decide to have a dispute with INEOS. The workers in that factory | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
democratically elect their shop stewards to represent them and to | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
express to management their concerns and their views. That is what | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has condemned your union's handling of | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have you considered your position? Jack | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
Straw and others in the Labour Party, you have to ask them what | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
their agenda is. I am not interested in what he says. The truth of the | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
matter is we responded to the requirements and needs of our | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
members. At a mass meeting last Monday 100% supported their shop | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
stewards and their union. We will continue to stand shoulder to | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
shoulder with our members when they are faced with difficult situations. | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
You have lost all the union rights. You have had to agree to a no strike | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
rule, you have lost pension rights. We have not lost rights at all, we | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
are still working with the company to implement its survival plan. The | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
Prime Minister is always attacking unions and just lately he has taken | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
to praising the automotive industry. Jaguar Land Rover, | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all Unite union members were the shop | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
stewards are engaged positively to implement survival plans and to make | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
a success for the company. That is what we do, but by the same token we | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
stand shoulder to shoulder with our members who are in struggle and we | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
will always do that and we will not be cowed by media attacks on us. Is | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
your leadership not proving to be as disastrous for the members as Arthur | :16:24. | :16:36. | |
Scargill was for the NUM? My membership is growing. I am | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
accountable to my members, two are executive, and the one thing they | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
will know is that when they want me standing shoulder to shoulder with | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
them when they have a problem, I will be there, despite the | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
disgraceful attacks launched on us by the media. | :16:54. | :17:07. | |
"A country ready to welcome your investment which values your | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
friendship and will never exclude anyone because of their race, | :17:11. | :17:12. | |
religion, colour or creed." The words of the Prime minister at the | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
World Islamic Economic Forum which was hosted for the first time in | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
London this week. The PM's warm words are sure to be welcomed by | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
British Muslims who have endured a spate of negative headlines. There's | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
been the controversy over the wearing of the veil, attitudes to | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
women, and the radicalisation of some young British Muslims. In a | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
moment I'll be talking to the Secretary General of the Muslim | :17:31. | :17:32. | |
Council of Britain, Farooq Murad. First - here's Giles Dilnot. The | :17:33. | :17:43. | |
call to Friday prayers at the east London Mosque which has strong links | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
with the Muslim Council of Britain, one of the more vocal groups amongst | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
British Muslims. Despite the fact it frequently happens, it is neither | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
helpful nor accurate to describe the British Muslim community. There are | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
so many different sects, traditions, cultures and | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
nationalities, it is more accurate to describe the British Muslim | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
communities, but there is one question being put to them - are | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
they doing enough internally to address some challenging issues? Are | :18:15. | :18:24. | |
they willing to confront radicalisation, attitudes to | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
non-muslins, two women, and cases of sexual exploitation in a meaningful | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
way? A number of them say no, not nearly enough. This former jihad de | :18:34. | :18:41. | |
has spent ten years telling young Muslim teenagers how they can reject | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
extremist radicalisation, using Outward Bound courses and community | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
work, but he and others doing this work thing -- think some elders are | :18:52. | :19:02. | |
failing the youngsters. This has been going on for decades, one | :19:03. | :19:12. | |
figures -- thing is said in public to please people but in private | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
something very different is being said and the messages are being | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
confused. Some of the young people, it pushes them further into a space | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
where they are vulnerable for radical recruiters. For many Muslim | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
youngsters, life is about living 1's faith within an increasingly secular | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
society, a struggle not helped if rigid interpretations of the Koran | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
are being preached, say some sectors. Some practices often don't | :19:44. | :19:55. | |
make sense in 21st-century Britain, and you are perhaps creating | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
obstacles if you stick to those and it is perhaps better to let go of | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
those cultural problems, especially when they need to clear injustices | :20:02. | :20:09. | |
like forced marriage, reticence to talk about grooming for example, or | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
discrimination against women. There is a long list but I am very clear | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
that in fact the bad Muslim is the one who sticks to unflinching, | :20:19. | :20:26. | |
narrow dogmatic fundamentalist perception of religion. One issue | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
often focused on is the wearing of minicab. Polling suggests 80% of | :20:32. | :20:40. | |
Britons would favour a ban in public places. -- the niqab. Many people | :20:41. | :20:56. | |
don't seem to recognise the legacy of the niqab. Many people preach | :20:57. | :21:07. | |
that women should be sidelined and that they are sexual objects that | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
should be covered up and the preservation of morality falls on | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
their shoulders. The Muslim Council of Britain recently got praise for | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
holding a conference on combating sexual exploitation. In the wake of | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
abuse cases that had involved predominantly Pakistani men. For one | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
man who has followed the story for some years, the Muslim Council of | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
Britain needs to do much more. We need to get along together and if | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
things like attitudes towards the normal slim girl in stark contrast | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
to the expression of honour and chastity of the Muslim girl, your | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
sister or daughter, are such that actions that would be an fought off | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
with a slim girl becomes permissible with a white girl, then we are all | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
in trouble. To some, attitudes to women are not limited to sexual | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
interactions at the very structures of life in Muslim communities and | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
indeed the Muslim Council of Britain itself. I would like to ask the | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
Muslim Council of Britain what they are doing about the fact that very | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
few mosques give voices to are doing about the fact that very | :22:29. | :22:36. | |
the fact that someone women are experiencing female genital | :22:37. | :22:38. | |
mutilation and forced marriages, what about the women who are getting | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
married and their marriages are not being registered and they are being | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
left homeless and denied maintenance rights, what about the fact there | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
are sharia rights that have been found to be discriminating against | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
women, and the fact there are men in this country who continue to hold | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
misogynistic views about women, what are you doing? The occasional press | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
release will not solve this problem of a deeply patriarchal community. | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
That all of these issues can be exploited to the point of Islam | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
phobia is not doubted, but many Muslims feel that unless the | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
communities do tackle this openly, a big cultural gap will exist between | :23:22. | :23:29. | |
the two. And the Secretary General of the | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad, joins me now. One visible | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
sign that sets muslins aside is the veils that cover women's faces. Do | :23:37. | :23:45. | |
you think it makes them impossible to be part of mainstream society? | :23:46. | :23:55. | |
The niqab is not an obligatory requirement. But do you accept that | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
those who wear it are cutting themselves off from mainstream | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
society? Some people do, and whilst wearing niqab, some of them are | :24:06. | :24:15. | |
working in various walks of life successfully and it is seen as a | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
faith requirement, but it is a red herring in the sense that it applies | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
to such a small number of Muslim girls. For many Muslim preachers, | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
isn't separation precisely the point of the niqab? Certainly not, if you | :24:30. | :24:39. | |
look at the Muslim women in the public sphere, we have many very | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
successful women. But not the ones who are veiled. Not in the public | :24:45. | :24:55. | |
arena as such, but the veil is a practice which is practised by a | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
very small number. Do you favour it? I personally think it is not a | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
requirement. But do you think women should wear the veil? I think it is | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
wrong to force women to wear the veil. I asked if in your opinion | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
women should wear the veil? It is important not to force women to wear | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
the veil. Should they of their free choice where the veil? A lot of | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
individuals do things out of their free choice which I do not approve | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
of, I don't think it is conducive it helps their cause, but I do not have | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
the right to take their choice away from them. I am still unsure if you | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
think it is a good thing or a bad thing. Are not many Muslim women in | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
this country being forced by Muslim preachers and often their male | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
relations who want to keep Muslim women their place? As I said, it is | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
wrong for anyone to force Muslim women. But how would we ever know in | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
a family if a woman was being forced? Exactly, we don't know what | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
is going on in people 's homes and what pressure is being applied. I | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
want you to look at this picture, very popular on Islamic websites, | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
and it shows the women who is wearing the niqab having a straight | :26:23. | :26:29. | |
route to heaven, and the other Muslim woman dressed in western gear | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
condemned to hell. Do you consider that a proper message for Muslim | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
women? Not at all, I don't. So any Islamic websites in Britain... The | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
Muslim Council of Britain is an organisation of five affiliates from | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
across the country and this is not coming from any of them. As I said, | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
those minority views propagated by individuals should not be used to | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
represent Muslim community. So that would not have the support of the | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
Muslim Council of Britain? It would not have the support. What about the | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
Muslim free school that requires children as young as 11 to wear a | :27:13. | :27:26. | |
black veil outside of school? Do you agree with that? I am not sure | :27:27. | :27:36. | |
exactly what the policy is... I have just told you, do you agree that | :27:37. | :27:44. | |
girls as young as 11 should wear a black burka outside of school? I | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
don't think it should be imposed on anybody. But this is the desired | :27:51. | :28:02. | |
dress School of the Muslim females. I am asking for your view. I said it | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
at the beginning that I do not think it should be imposed. Would you send | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
your daughter to a school that would wear a black burka at the age of 11? | :28:15. | :28:27. | |
Would you? No. It seems that some muslins are determined to segregate | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
young Muslim girls right from the start to very early from society. It | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
is not their segregation as such, I would say that there are faith | :28:39. | :28:47. | |
schools, if you look at an Islamic girls school in Blackburn in a | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
traditional setting, it has come the top of the league table this year in | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
the secondary school league tables. But it doesn't make 11-year-olds | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
wear black burkas. Many of those girls go on to have a successful | :29:05. | :29:11. | |
career. Not wearing black burkas. I am sure there are examples of women | :29:12. | :29:19. | |
who do have successful careers. There is a very conservative | :29:20. | :29:21. | |
movement from the continent on Islam, and the issue supposedly | :29:22. | :29:34. | |
based on Islamic law on their website. Here is one of their recent | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
judgements. The female is encouraged to remain within the confines of her | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
home as much as possible, she should not come out of the home without | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
need and necessity. What do you think of that? We need to say the | :29:50. | :29:56. | |
whole context of that quote. They are saying they should stay at home | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
as much as possible, do you agree with that? I see many Muslim women | :30:00. | :30:13. | |
who are walking about... But this is what the mosque is recommending | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
women should do. The practice is quite the contrary. Let me show you | :30:18. | :30:38. | |
another one. Another Fatwa. Do you agree with that? These have been | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
picked out from material dating back to different cultural settings and | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
in practice they are not applied. This is advice being given as we | :30:51. | :30:57. | |
speak. This is not being practised. Do you agree with it? No, not at | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
all. These are from the DL Monday mosques, how come 72 of these | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
mosques are affiliated to your counsel? There may be publications | :31:09. | :31:26. | |
from one of their scholars, but they have been written in countries | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
abroad and translated. This is advice being given to young women | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
now. They are affiliated to the Muslim Council of Britain. Do you | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
ever speak to them about that? The Muslim Council is a very broad | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
organisation. We are working on lots of common issues to create a | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
community which positively integrates. Did you ever speak to | :31:54. | :32:02. | |
them to say this is not appropriate for British Muslims? There may be | :32:03. | :32:09. | |
certain ad buys and publications available, but people make their | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
choices. So it is OK for your organisation to issue things like | :32:17. | :32:26. | |
that? Many of these things will fall under scrutiny and we need to create | :32:27. | :32:35. | |
that. Why do only 26% of British mosques have facilities for women? | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
If you go back to the requirement of prayer, it was not obligatory for | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
women to come to the masks to prayer. When a poorer community | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
began putting up mosques at the very beginning in terraced houses... Did | :32:53. | :33:00. | |
you have a policy to encourage them? Is it on your website? It is in our | :33:01. | :33:08. | |
practices that 20% of the council have to be female. Coming out of | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
this movement there is a conscious stream of superiority between | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at this quote. He is a well-known | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
picture in this country. That is what he wants to stop. I | :33:28. | :33:51. | |
disagree with that. We believe we live in this society and Muslims in | :33:52. | :33:59. | |
any society of the world, and they have historically lived as | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
minorities in many countries... You would this associate yourself from | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
that? Why do you allow people like that to be affiliated to you? The | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
requirement is for any organisation to be affiliated is that they are | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
bound by the Charity commission's rules and regulations. We only | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
accept those who are under the law of this country. This is a matter of | :34:28. | :34:35. | |
taste. Let me move on to a bigger issue. In 2009 you signed the | :34:36. | :34:45. | |
Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul declaration was signed. Do you still | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
support it? No, we never signed it or supported it. One of your leading | :34:52. | :35:03. | |
lights signed it. In the media mainstream he defended his position. | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
You have this associated yourself from it? What is wrong with that? I | :35:09. | :35:16. | |
am not sure about the declaration because we disassociated ourselves. | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
Before reading it? We did not sign it. You have not read it? I do not | :35:24. | :35:32. | |
know all the aspects of the declaration, but at the time in the | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
national newspapers and media there was a discussion and a debate and it | :35:39. | :35:48. | |
was highlighted that that was not what was meant by the declaration. | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
When did you decide so is the yourself from the declaration? From | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
day one. We never signed it. The East London Mosque which you are | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
personally closely associated with is the venue for a number of | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
extremist speakers, who espoused extremist positions. In 2009 the | :36:15. | :36:25. | |
mosque posted a video and presentation by somebody described | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
by the UN Security Council as an Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
speaker described Christians and Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
is supporter of the Taliban there. Why do you do nothing to stop | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
extremists like that at this mask with which you are associated with? | :36:44. | :36:52. | |
We do not have anything to do with any rhetoric that condones or | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
supported violence. We issue guidelines and the mosque itself is | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
a registered charity which has its own rules and regulations, but it is | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
a very large mosques and lots of organisations book and come and told | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
their gatherings. We rent out the facilities. You were prepared to | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
speak alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a | :37:20. | :37:29. | |
Zionist conspiracy. Why would you share a platform like that? I did | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
not share a platform like that. Different organisations come and | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
have conferences here. Why did you agree? I did not agree with that. I | :37:43. | :37:51. | |
completely reject that. When you add all this up the attitude to women, | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
the alliance with the most fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good force? It is an organisation which | :38:14. | :38:21. | |
embraces different organisations which are affiliated in the Muslim | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
community. You have taken snippets of certain individual views which | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
are not the views of our affiliates. It would be unfair to represent our | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
view based on those which you have highlighted in this programme. The | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
work that we do is quite clear and is on our website. They are all | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
associated with you, but we will have to leave it there. You are | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be talking to joke | :38:56. | :39:06. | |
Hello and on the Sunday Politics Wales: Carwyn Jones says a | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
referendum to devolve powers over income tax can't happen until the | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
Treasury reforms the way it funds the UK's nations and regions. We'll | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
hear from Kirsty Williams, the leader of the Welsh Liberal | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
Democrats, who's in our Cardiff newsroom, as opposition parties say | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
the First Minister is refusing to take responsibility. And the Unite | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
union unveils a new education complex aimed at improving workforce | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
skills. We'll hear plenty from our guests here in the studio. Two | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
Assembly Members, Labour's Julie Morgan and the Conservative, | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
Antoinette Sandbach. Now firstly, Assembly Members, like many of us, | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
have been on a half-term break this week which normally means that the | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
Senedd is a very quiet place. But not this week. The Prime | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
Minister and his deputy were in Cardiff aid to announce new | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
financial powers. It includes the right to borrow money. There will be | :40:02. | :40:09. | |
some tax raising powers. Those taxes are stamp duty and the landfill | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
tax. They were all welcomed by the First Minister. The power to vary | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
income tax is on the table as well. Carwyn Jones is not so keen on | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
that. He feels Wales has been short-changed by ?300 million a year | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
by the tragedy. He was the way to many is calculated to be reformed. I | :40:30. | :40:40. | |
spoke to the former presiding officer and he offered his own | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
solution to the funding problem. What we need is a body which is | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
independent of UK Treasury, independent of the tragedies of the | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
devolved government and they will be an objective formula agreed on the | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
needs and therefore the level of subventions to be paid in block | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
grants. That is the proper way to do it. That is called federalism. | :41:05. | :41:16. | |
Let's explore some of those issues with Kirsty Williams, the leader of | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
the Welsh Liberal Democrats who's in our Cardiff newsroom. Let's wind the | :41:20. | :41:28. | |
clock back 48 hours. Your response to the announcements made by David | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
Cameron and Nick Clegg. Very pleased indeed. The fact we have a Silk | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
Commission is something we worked hard to get it into the coalition | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
agreement. We had a bit of the challenge getting the commission | :41:44. | :41:51. | |
opened running. -- and running. To have the Westminster government's | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
positive response is good news. There has been a positive response | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
from you and your party to what the Westminster government have | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
suggested. Carwyn Jones is not so keen on the power to vary a portion | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
of income tax at the moment. Wide you think he's not keen? I listen | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
carefully to what the First Minister said to Nick Savini Friday night. | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
What was so disappointing was when asked the question if Barnett | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
Foreman was reformed, would he look to have that referendum on a | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
devolution of income tax. The Labour Party is split on this issue. Some | :42:32. | :42:39. | |
Assembly Members are keen to see these powers devolved but Labour MPs | :42:40. | :42:47. | |
from Wales are not. I think the First Minister is genuinely | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
concerned about having to take the rate of responsibility for the | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
outcomes of this policy decisions here in Cardiff. It doesn't matter | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
whether his policies succeed or fail in terms of finance he gets the | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
money given to him by London. If you was responsible because of his | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
policy interventions for erasing some of that money, he'd be more | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
accountable when he does not things well. I think he is frightened and | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
of that. I know Leanne Wood agrees and I think Andrew RT Davies has | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
said something similar, but I saw Glyn Davies saying last night all | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
the opposition parties should come together on this and depose Carwyn | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
Jones. He needs to look carefully at the maths. It is not a question of | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
deposing. The Labour is split equally, 30-30. On this issue it | :43:39. | :43:47. | |
seems even the Conservatives are being more radical and more | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
ambitious for Wales than the Welsh Labour government and the Welsh | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
Labour Party. It is extraordinary to find a lead of it can to offered | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
greater responsibility and not being keen to grasp them. The First | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
Minister said on Friday this announcements by the Deputy first -- | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
Prime Minister and Prime Minister meant Wales will be taken seriously. | :44:11. | :44:24. | |
But what he does say is until there is a fair funding system for Wales, | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
he says and that the Barnett formula ?300 million shortfall for Wales. | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
Until that is reformed that is no point going ahead. I accept that we | :44:35. | :44:43. | |
need a change to the way in which Wales and the other countries and | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
regions of the UK are funded. I wish Carwyn Jones would have said these | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
things when the Labour Party were in government in Westminster. He has | :44:53. | :44:54. | |
only decided we're not been treated fairly since the coalition | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
government. As I said earlier, what is more depressing, because I agree | :45:01. | :45:12. | |
that the offending formalin is to be changed, but even then if he was | :45:13. | :45:24. | |
asked to move forward, he could not give a clear answer. I am | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
disappointed by that. Let's get them reaction in the studio. Julie | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
Morgan, accusations levelled at your party and the First Minister, Carwyn | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
Jones. It is a pity we have got into a wrangle in this sort of way. | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
Friday was a positive day. We, in the Labour Party, welcomed the | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
opportunity to get borrowing powers, to get infrastructure projects | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
going. That is very, very positive. The Welsh Government wants to look | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
at the best interest of the people of Wales. Kirsty Williams suggested | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
there was a split. Some Assembly Members would be happy for Carwyn | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
Jones to go ahead with the referendum. I knew one of those? I | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
would like a referendum but it is important we sort out the Barnett | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
formula first. Wales does suffer under it. It is on a geographic | :46:16. | :46:24. | |
basis not a needs basis. I welcome independent body to look at it. I | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
don't know whether that will be acceptable to the coalition | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
government. But it would be a good way forward. There is agreement | :46:32. | :46:40. | |
among the opposition parties on this which is very rare in the Assembly. | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
You agree that Carwyn Jones is not making the right decisions. I don't | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
think he is accepting the level of responsibility or two. This gives | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
them greater responsibility. We have heard a lot of talk about and for | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
improvements. It is interesting after the announcement of borrowing | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
powers for the first time, he talking about North Wales. He has | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
realised there is a very big perception in the country that he is | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
not delivering for the north and west of Wales or mid Wales. | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
Resources are being concentrated in the south. Those are the kind of | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
issues I am less concerned with funding from outside Wales, rather | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
than fair funding within Wales. Those are the decisions that will | :47:32. | :47:33. | |
come as a result of these announcements. The First Minister | :47:34. | :47:41. | |
said this money could be used for a new bridge to Anglesey. That has | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
been part of his infrastructure project for some time. We have not | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
seen the level of investment in North Wales and has been in South | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
Wales. That is where the level of accountability will come. It is | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
important that if people are paying through their taxes for | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
infrastructure development that benefits the whole of Wales and not | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
just parts of Wales. Julie Morgan, come back on the idea that the First | :48:09. | :48:15. | |
Minister is shirking his responsibility. He does not want | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
this responsibility and using this idea of reform as a excuse. Labour | :48:21. | :48:36. | |
is in control in Cardiff Bay, we are very keen to move ahead, to move | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
ahead with trying to make things better. We want to do it in a | :48:40. | :48:46. | |
responsible way. There is no question of not wanting to take | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
responsibility. We have an opportunity to move forward and I | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
hope the opposition parties. Carping on about an individual reaction that | :48:53. | :48:59. | |
say how do we go forward. Kirsty Williams, just respond to that. | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
Julie Morgan seems to say this is a random person 's reaction. This is | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
the First Minister of Wales. He is saying that even if Barnett was | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
reformed he could not guarantee to giving the choice to the Welsh | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
people whether they want the Assembly to have those tax-raising | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
powers. For me that is extraordinary. I agree with Carwyn | :49:24. | :49:30. | |
Jones that we need to reform the Barnett formula, I wish he would | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
have spoken about that sooner. Even when that is reformed, we had no | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
clear steer from the First Minister he wanted the Welsh Government to | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
have those powers. Spending in Wales, the amount of money available | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
in Wales, was going off until 2010. But after that it has become obvious | :49:52. | :50:00. | |
that the ballots for minis to be devised. There are real issues about | :50:01. | :50:10. | |
policies are being delivered and whether real improvements are being | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
made. Where there is to school responsibility there is | :50:16. | :50:17. | |
accountability and that is what we have lacked through Welsh | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
Government. I do see that. I don't think he wants it at all. I don't | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
feel he is properly delivering for Wales, that he is using the money in | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
the best way. I think we can argue and show now how we would use it | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
differently and spend it better and more effectively. I would maintain | :50:40. | :50:46. | |
the response from the people of Wales is the do feel a | :50:47. | :50:48. | |
Labour-controlled government has delivered for Wales. When do you | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
think we will see a referendum on income tax? I think we will see it. | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
It will not in this term. Do you think it'll happen before 2020? I | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
think we will have it by 2020 but we will have two sort the Barnett | :51:05. | :51:11. | |
formula out first. We want to use this opportunity to make sure that | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
we can improve things. Let's go to Kirsty Williams. What we have got is | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
the opportunity for Wales to grasp the powers over its future destiny | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
and stop it is extraordinary we have a First Minister of Wales who does | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
not see the opportunities that is being presented to him. It is | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
extraordinary we have the Welsh Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru and | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
the Welsh Conservatives talking about a radical approach to Wales's | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
future than the First Minister of Wales. We have to move on. | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
The Unite union have just dedicated their new education complex at | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
Transport House in Cardiff to the late north Walian union official, | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
Tom Jones. Mr Jones, who died last year, was involved in the long | :51:54. | :51:55. | |
running industrial disputes at Friction Dynamex and the north Wales | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
slate quarries. He was also responsible for getting members | :52:01. | :52:02. | |
involved in education projects such as the Wales Union Learning Fund. | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
Mark Palmer went along to the ceremony at the Unite headquarters. | :52:07. | :52:15. | |
Without further ado, it is my great pleasure to unveil this photomontage | :52:16. | :52:26. | |
of Tom. Tom Jones was a widely respected official for the old | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
transport and workers union who died last year. In tribute to him, Andy | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
Richards said he was an inspirational campaigner who had | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
been involved in a long-running disputes in Friction Dynamex. In all | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
the campaigning he was passionate about education. He was a good the | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
goal shooter. He was a very good administrator. He had a passion for | :52:53. | :53:06. | |
learning. He made use of the Wales Union Learning Fund, funded by the | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
Welsh Government. His was the first project in North Wales. He kicked | :53:12. | :53:20. | |
that. Between 2007 and 2011, 15,000 people trained through the Wales | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
Union Learning Fund. With continued support of the government it is | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
hoped the number will increase by 10,000 by the end of this year with | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
facilities like the Tom Jones education centre playing a key role. | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
Andy Richards said the Wales Union Learning Fund is about cooperation | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
between the unions and employers. Education is important to the | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
profitability of companies and without profitable companies in | :53:46. | :53:52. | |
Wales we do not have union members. We work with thousands of them. The | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
main physical and coming from that is people leaving school at the | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
moment don't have the essential basic skills necessary for industry. | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
By accessing the Wales Union Learning Fund we provide training, | :54:06. | :54:13. | |
particularly as in this room, specialist IT, training them to go | :54:14. | :54:20. | |
into industry. The last government say they are encouraged to CM | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
players from all sectors embracing the Wales Union Learning Fund and | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
the family of Tom Jones say they are proud he is being commemorated in | :54:28. | :54:35. | |
this environment. Preferred a lot about union on cooperation. This is | :54:36. | :54:46. | |
positive. Funding into this fund has increased. Where you have unions | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
like Unite hailing fees to the Labour Party, funding the Labour | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
Party, this is the wrong way to achieve it. We should be educating | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
our children to come out of schools with us a six skills so they already | :55:01. | :55:08. | |
have qualifies -- with basic skills so they already have the | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
modifications. So all the work the unions are doing, you would | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
preferred that the don't have to do it because the children would the | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
educated properly in schools. These skills budget has in cut by ?42 | :55:21. | :55:28. | |
million by the Labour government. Why are they pumping money into this | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
specialist fund administered by the unions? It needs to be used in the | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
education sector far more widely. Let's get a response. The unique | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
thing about the Wales Union Learning Fund is it is done through the union | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
in the workplace. You say they work with employers. They work with the | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
workforce. If people, who are lacking basic skills in reading and | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
writing, it is much easier to work with a local union representatives | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
to move forward and get the skills addressed. That is why it has been | :56:06. | :56:13. | |
so successful. I am fully in support of this fund and of the Welsh | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
Government putting money into it. Is your concern here not that the work | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
is carried out, the fact it is carried out by the union? It is | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
concerning to see many going round in a circle. Millions is being put | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
into this fund to an organisation that pays millions of pounds in | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
donations to the Labour Party. We have good local colleges that have | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
extensive contacts with the cis and already work with businesses to | :56:43. | :56:51. | |
improve skills. -- with companies. My view is this money is directed to | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
the wrong place. Rather than cutting the budget colleges which is | :56:57. | :57:05. | |
happening now, I wanted to be put in to this. I return to the practical | :57:06. | :57:12. | |
implications that it is a successful way of delivering learning. I think | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
that it should be approached puny on that practical basis, this is then a | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
successful fund. There are other ways to reach people but this is | :57:26. | :57:27. | |
successful and we need to continue to support it. We will be back to | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
you shortly. Time for a quick look back at some of the political | :57:34. | :57:43. | |
stories of the week in 60 Seconds. The Prime Minister announced next | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
year 's NATO summit will be held at the Celtic Manor resort in Newport. | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
David Cameron said leaders such as President Obama will be there. The | :57:52. | :58:01. | |
Welsh Government's new task force on modernising the North Wales rail | :58:02. | :58:04. | |
network held its first thing. It is chaired while Lesley Griffiths, it | :58:05. | :58:10. | |
is made up of the representatives of the North Wales local authorities, | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
enterprise zones and the private sector. The Anglesey MP, Albert | :58:14. | :58:20. | |
Owen, criticised energy chief executives for awarding pay rises to | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
their staff. Former Wales secretary said the post should be abolished | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
because its existence in a post-devolution Wales could not be | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
justified. He said the Wales office should be scrapped as a cost cutting | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
measure and with Cardiff Bay having more powers, they should be more | :58:40. | :58:47. | |
Assembly Members. We saw the First Minister of the | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
Prime Minister Rather, and the Deputy Prime Minister in the Senedd. | :58:53. | :59:00. | |
One thing we did not touch on is that the NATO summit will be coming | :59:01. | :59:06. | |
to South Wales. It is very good. Celtic Manor is such a great place. | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
I visited it when the European foreign ministers met there. It is | :59:12. | :59:14. | |
each amend this venue so I think it is very good news we we're having | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
another big meeting, a high-profile meeting there. Good for Wales. Do | :59:18. | :59:23. | |
you think we could see F Swan landing at Cardiff airport? It would | :59:24. | :59:33. | |
be interesting. -- air force one. What do you think of the Prime | :59:34. | :59:36. | |
Minister 's visit to South Wales? I am delighted that he has worked so | :59:37. | :59:43. | |
hard to get NATO to come and visit South Wales. I hope the Welsh | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
Government will take it as an opportunity to promote the whole of | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
Wales. They have welcomed it, to be fair. It should promote Welsh to | :59:51. | :59:58. | |
losing, Welsh food, it isn't excellent opportunity to showcase | :59:59. | :00:04. | |
Wales. -- Welsh tourism. You have spent some time doing some walking. | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
Is it is to reach you have been doing it? I walked earlier in the | :00:09. | :00:14. | |
year in September with walk on Wales is a fantastic charity. They have | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
been walking around the coast of Wales to raise funds to help | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder. The charity has been | :00:26. | :00:32. | |
highlighting that and has an fundraising at the same time for | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
combat stress in the Welsh Guards. They finished yesterday here in | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
Cardiff in front of the Senedd and it was very, very moving. You | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
swapped your trainers for your work shoes today! Next week, I suspect | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
both the William B in the Assembly because you have a debate in the | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
reader to Remembrance Sunday. It is a debate on the Armed Forces. It is | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
an important week. I have been particularly struck by how many | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
young people are now involved and interested and I feel that next week | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
is a week where we will be thinking about and preparing for Remembrance | :01:09. | :01:18. | |
Sunday. I agree with that. We have a Wales that contributes to the Armed | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
Forces. It is not just about remembering the world wars. That is | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
why it is a web portal to look at things like the veterans card which | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
hasn't been delivered or implemented. Things like the PTSD | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
treatment there should be, I say, available in Wales. It isn't at the | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
moment. It was as an opportunity to look at those. Many thanks for | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
coming in today. We are out of time. We will be back with you next week. | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
But for the time being, let's go back to London. | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
Thank you for coming, great to see you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's | :02:00. | :02:17. | |
relationship with Unite and other issues all to be discussed in the | :02:18. | :02:31. | |
Week Ahead and we're joined now by the shadow business secretary Chuka | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
Umunna. First I would like to get your reaction to the interview I did | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
earlier with the General Secretary of the union Unite - Len McCluskey. | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
Let's look at what he said. This is a trap being laid by Tory Central | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
office. They are making all of the demands and the Daily Mail, the | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
Sunday Times, are you telling me they are not the conservative | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
mouthpiece in the media? They are laying traps for Ed Miliband and he | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
should not fall into them. Though it is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
denies a lot of the allegations put, but let me be clear in an industrial | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
dispute, the use of aggressive or intimidatory tactics by either side | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
is totally unacceptable. Do you think it is wrong for Unite to send | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
its members to the homes of managers? I don't know what happened | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
in that particular case, but I think you should keep people 's families | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
out of these things and if you are doing something that can upset | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
particularly children, that is a bad thing. I know he denied a number of | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
things you put to him. We now know some of the content of Labour 's own | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
report into what happened at Falkirk and they found all sorts of things - | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
forgery, coercion, trickery and even that their own investigation was | :03:50. | :03:57. | |
being thwarted by Unite. What should Labour do next? I have not read the | :03:58. | :04:09. | |
report. We are told that the latest allegations that have been made is | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
something that the police are looking into so that is not | :04:15. | :04:16. | |
something I think would be appropriate for me to comment on. We | :04:17. | :04:29. | |
learned Labour Party members in the Falkirk constituency have complained | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
to the leader of the Scottish party about a lack of action by the Labour | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
Party on what happened in Falkirk. I am not part of the Scottish party | :04:38. | :04:48. | |
and that is news to me. But the police have indicated they are | :04:49. | :04:50. | |
looking at the new information that has come to light. It is a bit like | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
the 1980s and there was an electrifying moment when Neil | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
Kinnock took on the militant tendency in Bournemouth in 1985. Ed | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
Miliband has sort of tried to take on the Unite union, but it has not | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
worked. Does then not need to be an electrifying moment for Ed Miliband? | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
Your own paper has praised him for seeking to address the issues we | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
have in politics and the disconnection from people. In many | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
respects the situation in Falkirk categorises the process of further | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
ongoing change where we are trying to establish a better relationship | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
with individual trade union members. In parts of my constituency, some of | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
the most deprived parts, we had people queueing round the block to | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
vote. I do not think the issue is that people are not political, but | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
they have never felt so far from party politics as they do now and | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
that is why Ed Miliband announced this big chains about how we do | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
things in the Labour Party, so we change structures in the Labour | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
Party that were set up in the 20th century. The reform of the way in | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
which we connect and our relationship with the union puts us | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
in a good position because we have this relationship between the 3 | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
million working people who ensure our public services function. At | :06:21. | :06:29. | |
Grangemouth INEOS stood up to unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
Labour rolled over to the Unite union. I do not agree with that. I'd | :06:35. | :06:43. | |
just explained the reason. I do not think it is fair to ask people to | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
give evidence in an enquiry on the basis of the report will be | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
confidential and then to publish it after. But if somebody is trying to | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
take over a Labour constituency to send an MP of their choice to our | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
Parliament, that should not be secret, that should be public. Ed | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
Miliband acted very decisively. That constituency party is still in | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
special measures as I understand it. This idea that somehow the Unite | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
union runs the Labour Party, they do not. The special measures mean | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
according to Eric Joyce, that an ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the | :07:30. | :07:37. | |
meeting. I am interested in the Tory suggestion that they would offer | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
free Tory party membership to union members. I then moving onto your | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
turf? We do not know exactly all the facts and the truth of the | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
allegations that have been made. On your point I think it is healthy the | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
Conservatives are looking to recruit trade union members. A lot of their | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
rhetoric is very negative in respect of trade unions. If you look at | :08:08. | :08:16. | |
Unison a third of the members vote Conservative. In Unite union some of | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
their members vote Tory. I think trade unions have a lot to bring to | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
our country. It is one of the things many up and down the country will | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
find very frustrating, a lot of the good work that unions do if it gets | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
tarnished with all the negative stuff you see... Unite are working | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
in partnership with GM and the senior management in Ellesmere Port | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
and the government ensured that we kept that plant open. That gets | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
overlooked by all of this. Do you not think the bolshie behaviour from | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
unions are motivated not by strength, but by weakness. Unite | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
know they cannot paralyse the country in the way their forebears | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
used to be able to do. Their penetration rates in the private | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
sector is 11%. The union movement is weaker than it was before I was | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
born. Some of that truck killers and bad behaviour either death spasms of | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
their movement rather than something that is motivated by the fact they | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
can't paralyse the country. You have two increase the membership. But | :09:32. | :09:39. | |
there is an issue about the public perception of trade unions. It is | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
right they should be a voice of protest and anger and stand up for | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
their members when it is necessary. But people join unions for their | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
aspiration. The unions do a lot so that people can move up in their | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
workplace. That profile needs to come across as strongly as the | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
protest part. I want to move on to business. The head of the CBI has | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
said that Labour's pro-enterprise credentials have suffered a setback. | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
He said that in relation to Ed Miliband's speech. I was on the | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
radio earlier. If you look at the things in the speech, some of that | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
was going to be uncomfortable for some of the countries and they tend | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
to be companies represented by the CBI, like energy companies, like | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
land developers, a lot of the big business lose out from is not doing | :10:39. | :10:46. | |
the corporate tax cut. The energy freeze is going to help over 2.4 | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
million businesses that have been hit by high energy bills. The | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
business community has said we had to bring the public sector finances | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
back into balance. That is why we decided to switch the money being | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
used to reduce corporation tax and use that to help a much greater | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
variety of businesses by doing a business rate cut. It is all pro | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
enterprise. They also seem to be critical of your new idea of a | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
living wage. They are not critical. It would not be compulsory, but | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
there would be a tax credit if they paid it. It is good for business | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
because if people are earning more than they are more productive. It is | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
good for the employee and good for us as well because it means we are | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
not having to subsidise people to be paid to the extent we have with tax | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
credits and benefits. Everybody benefits from this. We all know | :11:54. | :12:02. | |
after 2009 we need to have bold change. Does Labour paid a living | :12:03. | :12:12. | |
wage? We have got over 20 of our councils signed up to doing so and | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
we have made commitments in respect to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party | :12:17. | :12:24. | |
pay it? I believe so. Would it not be worth checking? Do you get a | :12:25. | :12:39. | |
living wage? Yes, of course I do. I understand we paid a living wage. | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
What does it feel like for Tristram Hunt who has taken over your mantle | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
as Labour's next leader? Is that a relieved or are you angry? He is one | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
of my best friends and at the end of the day if we got obsessed with this | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
soap opera stuff we would never get anything done and we are working | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
together to make sure we have got the right skills in our workforce. | :13:07. | :13:17. | |
That is all for today. The daily politics is on all week. I will be | :13:18. | :13:26. | |
here again next weekend at 12:25pm after the Remembrance Day service at | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
the Cenotaph. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:32. | :13:39. |