Browse content similar to 10/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
the war path over pay day loans, your energy bill and what he calls | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be | :01:01. | :01:09. | |
talking to the UKIP leader. And Harriet hates, hates, hates page | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
three. She wants rid of it. But what do you think? We sent Adam out with | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
Later in the programme: We'll hear some balls. Stay. It is good fun | :01:16. | :01:29. | |
Later in the programme: We'll hear from the Health Minister, Mark | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
Drakeford, on his plans to deal with the winter emergency | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
Drakeford, on his plans to deal with It is free choice. In London, the | :01:35. | :01:45. | |
row over the super sewer rumbles on. And with me, fresh from their | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
success at yesterday's Star Wars auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. First, the talks with Iran in | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
Geneva. They ended last night without agreement despite hopes of a | :02:04. | :02:13. | |
breakthrough. America and its allies didn't think Iran was prepared to go | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
far enough to freeze its nuclear programme. But some progress has | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
been made and there's to be another meeting in ten days' time, though at | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
a lower level. The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had this | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
to say a little earlier. On the question of, or will it happen in | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
the next few weeks? There is a good chance of that. We will be trying | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
again on 20th, 21st of November and negotiators will be trying again. We | :02:39. | :02:46. | |
will keep an enormous amount of energy and persistence behind | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
solving this. Will that be a deal which will please everyone? No, it | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
will not. Compromises will need to be made. I had discussions with | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
Israeli ministers yesterday and put the case for the kind of deal we are | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
looking the case for the kind of deal we are | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
interests of the whole world, including | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
interests of the whole world, the world, to reach a diplomatic | :03:17. | :03:17. | |
agreement we can be confident in in this issue. This otherwise will | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
threaten the world with nuclear proliferation and conflict in the | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
future. The interesting thing about this is that it seems | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
future. The interesting thing about prepared to go far enough over the | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor it is building. The people who took | :03:39. | :03:51. | |
the toughest line - the French. France has always had a pretty tough | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
line on Iran. They see it as a disruptive influence in Lebanon. I | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
am reasonably optimistic a deal will be done later this month when the | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
talks reconvene. Western economic sanctions have had such an impact on | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
Iran domestic league. They have pushed inflation up to 40%. | :04:13. | :04:21. | |
Dashes-macro domestically. The new president had a campaign pledge | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
saying, I will deal with sanctions. I actually think, by the end of this | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
year, we will see progress in these talks. Should we be optimistic? The | :04:34. | :04:41. | |
next round of talks will be at official level. The place to watch | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
will be Israel. The language which has been coming out of there is | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
still incredibly angry, incredibly defensive. They do not want a deal | :04:53. | :05:02. | |
at all. Presumably John Kerry has to go away and tried to get Israel to | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
be quiet about it, even if they cannot be happy about it. They | :05:08. | :05:18. | |
cannot agree to a deal which allows the Iraq reactor with plutonium | :05:19. | :05:26. | |
heavy water. You do not need that with a peaceful nuclear power | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
programme will stop that is why the Israelis are so nervous. If there is | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
an international deal, Israel could still bomb that but it would be | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
impossible. The French tactics are interesting. It says the French | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
blocked it in part because they are trying to carry favour with Israel | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
but also the Gulf Arab states, who are really nervous about and | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
Iranians nuclear capability. Who is that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
story saying that Pakistan is prepared to provide them with | :06:08. | :06:18. | |
nuclear weapons. You are right about Saudi Arabia. They are much more | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
against this deal than Israel. Who is Herman van Rompuy's favourite | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
MEP? It is probably not Nigel Farage. He plummeted to the bottom | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
of the EU president's Christmas card list after comparing him to a bank | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
clerk with the charisma of a damp rag. And he's been at it again this | :06:36. | :06:44. | |
week. Have a look. Today is November the 5th, a big celebration festival | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
day in England. That was an attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
with dynamite and destroy the Constitution. You have taken the | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
Dahl, technocratic approach to all of these things. What you and your | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
colleagues save time and again - you talk about initiatives and what you | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
are going to do about unemployment. The reality is nothing in this union | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
is getting better. The accounts have not been signed off for 18 years. I | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
am now told it is 19 and you are doing your best to tone down any | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
criticism. Whatever growth figures you may have, they are anaemic. | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
Youth unemployment in the Mediterranean is over 50% in several | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
states. You will notice there is a rise in opposition dashed real | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
opposition. Much of it ugly opposition, not stuff that I would | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
want to link hands with. And Nigel Farage joins me now. Let me put to | :07:44. | :07:52. | |
you what the editor of the Sun had to say. He says, UKIP will peak at | :07:53. | :07:59. | |
the European election and then it will begin to get marginalised as we | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
get closer to 2015 because there is now that clear blue water between | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
Labour and the Tories. What do you say to that? There may be layered | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
blue water on energy pricing but on Eastern Europe, there is no | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
difference at all. When Ed Miliband offers the referendum to match | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
Cameron, even that argument on Europe will be gone. The one thing | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
that will keep UKIP strong, heading towards 2015, is if people think in | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
some constituencies we can win. I cannot sit here right now and say | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
that will be the case. If we get over the hurdle of the European | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
elections clearly, I think there will be grounds to say that UKIP can | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
win seats in Westminster. You are going to run? Without a shadow of a | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
doubt. I do not know which constituency. The welcome I got in | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
Edinburgh was not that friendly. Edinburgh is not everything in | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
Scotland. I think we have a realistic chance of winning those | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
elections. If we do that, we will have the momentum behind us. You | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
might be the biggest party after the May elections. The National front is | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
likely to do very well in France as well. They have won the crucial | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
by-election in the South of France. Have you talked about joining full | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
season in Parliament? The leader has tried to take the movement into a | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
different direction than her father. The man she beat, to become leader, | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
actually attended the BNP conference. The problem she has with | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
her party and we have with her party is that anti-Semitism is too deep | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
and we will not be doing a deal with the French national government. You | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
can guarantee you will not be joining such groups. I can guarantee | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's accept that the pro-Europeans | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
exaggerate the loss of jobs that would follow the departure of | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
Britain from the UK. Is there no risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
whatsoever. There is no risk at all. There have been some weak and lazy | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
arguments put around about this. We will go on doing business - go on | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
doing trade with Europe. We will have increased opportunities to do | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
trade deals with the rest of the world and they will create jobs. The | :10:49. | :10:58. | |
head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi and CBI many other voices in British | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
business, when they all expressed concern about the potential loss of | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
jobs and incoming investment, we should just ignore them. With | :11:09. | :11:17. | |
Nissan, the BBC News is making this a huge story. The boss did not say | :11:18. | :11:25. | |
what was reported. He said there was a potential danger to his future | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
investment. They have already made the investments. They have built the | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
plant in Sunderland, which they say is operating well. We should be | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
careful of what bosses of big businesses say. This man said they | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
may have two leaves Sunderland if we did not join the euro. I do not take | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
that seriously. As for the CBI, they wanted us to join the euro and now | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
they do not. Even within the CBI, there is a significant minority | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
saying, we do not agree with what the CBI director-general is saying. | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
The former boss of the organisation is saying we need a referendum and | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
we need a referendum soon. It depends on the renegotiation. There | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
is not the uniformity. What we are beginning to see in the world, is, | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
manufacturing and small businesses are a lot more voices saying, the | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
costs of membership outweigh any potential benefit. If you look at | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
the polls, if Mr Cameron does repatriate some powers and he joins | :12:34. | :12:41. | |
with Labour, the Lib Dems, the Nationalists in Scotland and Wales, | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
most of business, all of the unions to say we should stay in, you are | :12:46. | :12:54. | |
going to lose, aren't you? In 1975, the circumstances were exactly the | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
same. Mr Wilson promised a renegotiation and he got very | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
little. The establishment gathered around him and they voted for us to | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
stay in. I do not think that will happen now. The scales have fallen. | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
We do not want to be governed by Herman Van Rompuy and these people. | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
These people are Eurosceptic but they do not seem to feel strongly | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
enough about it that they are going to defy all the major parties they | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
vote for, companies that employ them, unions they are members of. I | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
am absolutely confident there will be a lot voices in business saying, | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
we need to take this opportunity to break free, give ourselves a chance | :13:38. | :13:47. | |
of a low regulation lowball trader. -- global trade. In 1970 53 small | :13:48. | :14:07. | |
publications said to vote yes. I am not contemplating losing. The most | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
important thing is to get the referendum. If UKIP is not strong, | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
there will not be a referendum. Earlier in the year, your party | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
issued a leaflet about the remaining sample parents being able to come to | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
this country. The EU will allow 29 million Bulgarians and remaining is | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
to come to the UK. That is technically correct but we both know | :14:32. | :14:44. | |
that is not the case. It is an open door to these people. Why take the | :14:45. | :14:56. | |
risk? By make out there are 29 million people? I stand by that | :14:57. | :15:06. | |
verdict. It is an open door. 29 million are not going to come. They | :15:07. | :15:15. | |
can if they want. Also 29 million people from France can come. After | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
these countries have joined, we will do another leaflet saying that Mr | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
Cameron wants to open the door to 70 million people from Turkey. That is | :15:26. | :15:35. | |
scaremongering. I would not say that. We have a million young | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
British workers between 16 and 74 without work. A lot of them want | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
work and we do not need another massive oversupply in the unskilled | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
labour market. Why did you have such a bad time on question Time this | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
week? The folk that did not buy your anti-immigration stick. Do you think | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
that group of people in the room was representative of the voters of | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
Boston? What would make you think it was unrepresentative? When the | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
county council elections took place this year in Boston, of the seven | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
seats, UKIP won five and almost won the other two. I don't think that | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
audience reflected that, but that doesn't matter. How an audience is | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
put together, how a panel is put together, on one programme, it | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
doesn't mean much at all. It shows that your anti-immigrant measure | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
doesn't fly as easily as you hoped it would? The opinion polls which | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
will be launched on Monday that we are conducting and nearing | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
completion, they show two things. Firstly, an astonishing number of | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
people who think it's irresponsible and wrong to open the doer to | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and crucially, a number of people whose | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
vote in the European elections and subsequent general elections may be | :16:54. | :16:55. | |
determined by the immigration issues. This does matter. It would | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
be the perfect run group the European elections in May for you if | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
a lot of Bulgarians and remainians flooded in. You would like that to | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
happen? I think it will happen. Whether I like it or not, it will | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
happen. You think it will be good for you, it will stir things up? If | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
you say to people in poor countries, you can come here, get a job, have a | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
safety net of a benefits system, claim child allowance for your kids | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
in Bucharest, people will come You are ready with the arguments | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
already? You will be disappointed if only ten turn up? Whether lots come | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
or not we should. Taking the risk and yes, we are going to make it a | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
major issue in the European election. Let's leave it there. | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
Thank you very much, Nigel Farage. The summer of 2013 was not good for | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
Ed Miliband, with questions over his leadership, low ratings and | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
complaints about no policies. He bounced back with a vengeance at the | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
Labour Conference in September, delivering a speech which this week | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
won the spectator political speech of the year aword. In that speech he | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
focussed on the cost-of-living and promised a temporary freeze on | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
energy prices. Even said this. The next election isn't just going to be | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
about policy. It's going to be about how we lead and the character we | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
show. I've got a message for the Tories today. If they want to have a | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
debate, about leadership and character, be my guest And if you | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
want to know the difference between me and David Cameron, here is an | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
easy way to remember it. When it was Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
side of Murdoch. When it was the tobacco lobby versus the cancer | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
charities, he took the side of the tobacco lobby. When the millionaires | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
wanted a tax cut as people pay the bedroom tax, he took the side of the | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
millionaires. A come to think of it, here is an easier way to remember | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
it. David Cameron was a Prime Minister who introduced the bedroom | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who repeals the bedroom tax There we go, | :19:01. | :19:09. | |
that will go down with the party faithful on Tuesday. There will be a | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman, | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
joints me now. Let's begin with the bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy. | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
Nearly 11% of people who've come off Housing Benefits all together after | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
their spare room subsidy was stopped, isn't that proof that | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
reform was necessary? No. I think that the whole way that the bet room | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
tax has been attempted to be justified is completely wrong. What | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
it's said is that it will actually help take people off the waiting | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
lists by putting them into homes that have been vacated by people | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
who've downsized by being incentivised by the bedroom tax, so | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
basically if you are a council tenant or Housing Association tenant | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
in a property with spare bedrooms, then because the penalty is imposed, | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
you will move to a smaller property. That is the justification for it. | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
But actually, something like 96% of the people who're going to be hit by | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
the bedroom tax, there isn't a smaller property for them to move | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
into. I understand that. Therefore they are, like the people in my | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
constituency, if they have got one spare bedroom, they are hit by ?700 | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
a year extra to pay and that is completely unfair As a consequence | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
of people losing the subsidy for their spare room, they have decided | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
to go out and get work and not depend on Housing Benefit at all? | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
11% of them. What's wrong with that? Well, they are going to review the | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
way 2 the bedroom tax is working. What is wrong with that? But that's | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
not working. That's the result of Freedom of Information, 141 councils | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
provided the figures, 25,000 who've come off benefits, of the 233,000 | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
affected, it's about 11%. These people were clearly able to get a | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
job was having the Housing Benefit in the first place? But of course | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
the people who're on the benefits who're not in work are always | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
looking for work and many of them will find work which is a good | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
thing, but for those who don't find work, or who find work where it's | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
low-paid and need help with their rent, it's wrong to penalise them on | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
the basis of the fact that their family might have grown up and moved | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
away and so you have either got to move out of your home, away from | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
your family and your neighbourhood, or you've got to stay where you are | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
and, despite the fact that you are low-paid or unemployed, you have got | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
to find an extra ?700 a year because of your rent. So it's very unfair | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
The Government that was commissioning independent research | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
on the impact of this work change and welfare policy, particularly on | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
the impact on the most vulnerable, some of which you have been talking | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
about there, shouldn't they have waited until you have got the | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
independent research, that independent investigation before | :22:01. | :22:02. | |
determining your policy? No. In fact, the Government should have | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
waited until they'd have done their independent research before they | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
bought into effect something and imposed it on people in a way which | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
is really unfair. They could have known. Why didn't you wait? What | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
they could have done is, they could have asked councils, are people | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
going to be able to Manifest into smaller homes if we impose the | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
bedroom tax and the answer from councils and Housing Associations | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
would have been no, they can't move into smaller homes because which | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
haven't got them there. They should have done the evaluation before they | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
introduced the policy. We are absolutely clear and you can see the | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
evidence, people are falling into rent arrears. Many people, it's a | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
terrifying thing to find that you can't pay your rent, and some of the | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
people go to payday loan companies to get loans to pay their rent. It | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
is very, very unfair. The justification for it, which is | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
people will move, is completely bogus. There aren't places for them | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
to go. On the wider issue of welfare reform, a call for the TUC showed | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
that voters support the Government's welfare reforms, including a | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
majority of Labour voters. Why are you so out of touch on welfare | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
issues, even with your own supporters? Nobody wants to see | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
people who could be in a job actually living at the taxpayers' | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
expense. That's why we have said that we'll introduce a compulsory | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
jobs guarantee, so that if you are a young person who's been unemployed | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
for a year, you will have to take a job absolutely have to take a job, | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
and if you have been unemployed as somebody over 25, there'll be a | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
compulsory thing after two years of unemployment. So if you have been on | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
welfare two years? So the main issue about the welfare bill actually is | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
people who're in retirement who need support. We have said for the | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
richest pensioners, they shouldn't have to pay their winter fuel | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
allowance. My point wasn't abouts the sub stance, it's about how you | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
don't reflect public opinion -- substance. The Parliamentary aid | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
said the political backlog of benefits and social security is "not | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
yet one that we have won. Labour must accept that they are not | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
convincing on these matters,". Well, redo have to convince people and | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
explain the policies we have got and the view we take. So, for example, | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
for pensioners, who're well off, we are saying they don't need the | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me saying to you and us saying to | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
people in this country, we do think that there should be that | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
tightening. For young people, who've been unemployed, they should be | :24:38. | :24:39. | |
offered jobs but they've got to take them. So yes, we have to make our | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
case. OK. The energy freeze which we showed there, on the speech, as | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
popular. The living wage proseles have been going down well as well. | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
Why is Labour's lead oaf the Conservatives being cut to 6% in the | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
latest polls? Ed Miliband's own personal approval rating's gotten | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
worse. Why is that? I'm not going to disdues ins and outs of weekly | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
opinion polls with you or anybody else because I'm not a political | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
commentator, but let me say to you the facts of what's happened since | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
Ed Miliband's been leader of the Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
Labour councillors, all of those... But you're... All those who've won | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
their seats against the Conservatives or the Liberal | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
Democrats and no, Andrew you don't always get that in opposition. In | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
1997 after Tony Blair was elected, the Tories carried on losing council | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
seats. Exceptional circumstances and these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
the polls. You were six. The economy grew at an annual rate of 3% in the | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
third quarter just gone. Everybody, private and public forecasters now | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
saying that Britain in this coming year will grow faster than France, | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow faster. Your poll ratings are | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
average when the economy was flatlining, what happens to them | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
when the economy starts to grow? Well, I've just said to you, I'm not | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
a political commentator or a pundit on opinion polls. We are putting | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
policies forward and we are holding the Government to account for what | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
they are doing and we think that what they did opt economy pulled the | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
plugs from the economy, delayed the recovery, made it stagnate and we | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
have had three years lost growth. I understand that, but it's now | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
starting to grow. Indeed. If you are no political commentator, let me ask | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
you this, you anticipated the growth, so you switched your line to | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
no growth to this is growth and living standards are rising. If the | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
economy does grow up towards 3% next year, I would suggest that living | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
standards probably will start to rise with that amount of growth. | :26:47. | :26:49. | |
What do you do then? We have not switched our line because the | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
economy started to grow. All the way along, we said the economy will | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
recover, but it's been delayed and we have had stagnation for far too | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
long because of the economic policies. We have been absolutely | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
right to understand the concerns people have and recognise that they | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
are struggling with the cost-of-living. Sure. And we are | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
right to do that. What kind of living standards stuck to rise next | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
year? -- start to rise next year. I hope they will. For 40 months of | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
David Cameron's Prime Ministership, for 39 of those, wages have risen | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
slower than prices, so people are worse off. I understand that. You | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
will know that the broader measurement, real household | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
disposable income doesn't show that decline because it takes everything | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
into account. Going around the country, people feel it. They say | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
where's the recovery for me. Living standards now start to rise? If that | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
happens, what is your next line? There is a set of arguments about | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
living standards, the National Health Service, about the problems | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
that there is in A, which caused -- are caused by the organisation. I | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
can put forward other lines. All right. Let me ask you one other | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
question If no newspapers have signed up to the Government-backed | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
Labour-backed Royal Charter on press regular lace by 2015 and it looks | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
like the way things are going none will have, if you are in power, will | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
a Labour Government legislate to make them? They don't have to sign | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
up to the Royal Charter, that's not the system. What the Royal Charter | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
does is create a recogniser and basically says it's for the | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
newspapers to set up their own regulator. They are doing that. My | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
question is... Let me finish. If they decide to have nothing to do | :28:39. | :28:40. | |
with the Royal Charter that was decided in Miliband's office in the | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
wee small hours, will you pass legislation to make them? The | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
newspapers are currently setting up what they call... I know that, | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
Harriet Harman. Just let me finish. OK. Because the newspapers are | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
setting up the independent Press Standards Organisation. Right. If it | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
is independent, as they say it is, then the recogniser will simply say, | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
we recognise that this is independent and the whole point is | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
that, in the past when there's been skaen deals a tend press have really | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
turned people's lives upside down and the press have said OK we'll | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
sort things out, leave it to us, then they have sorted things out but | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
a few years later they have slipped back, all this recogniser will do is | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
check it once every three years and say yes, you have got an independent | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
system and it's remained independent and therefore that is the guarantee | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
things won't slip back. Very interesting. Thank you for that. | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
That's really interesting that if they get their act right, you won't | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
force the alternative on them. We want the system as set forward by | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
Leveson which is not statute and direct regulation. I want to stick | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
with the press because I want to ask, is this a British institution | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
or an out-of-date image for a by gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
dividing the nation since it first appeared way back in 1970. That's 43 | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
years ago. Harriet Harman's called for it to be removed, so we sent | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
Adam out to ask whether the topless photographs should stay or go. We | :30:11. | :30:27. | |
have asked people if page three should stay or go. Page three. What | :30:28. | :30:41. | |
do you think? Nothing wrong with it at all. I think it is cheap and | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
exploits women. It is a family newspaper. Should it stay or go? Go. | :30:49. | :31:01. | |
I will look like the bad guy. It should go. You have changed your | :31:02. | :31:15. | |
mind. It is free choice. Girls do not have to be photographed. Old men | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
get the paper just for that. Know when your age does that? Not really. | :31:22. | :31:35. | |
Dashes-macro know what your age. Page three girls, should they stay | :31:36. | :31:44. | |
or go? I am not bothered. There are other ways of getting noticed. Page | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
three of the Sun newspaper every day, there is a woman with no top | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
on. We got rid of that about 40 years ago in Australia. I am not in | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
favour of censorship. It has been long enough. It can stay there. What | :32:03. | :32:12. | |
is wrong with it? We want to encourage children to read the | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
newspapers. I do not want my children to look at that. It is | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
degrading. Do you think we will see the day when they get rid of it? | :32:21. | :32:29. | |
Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can turn this into some kind of a | :32:30. | :32:43. | |
shelter. It is tipping it down. I think the council should do | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
something about their car parks! Mother nature, the human body. It | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
should stay. Is some people like it, that is fine. I have nothing against | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
it. You know what has surprised me, lots of women saying it should stay. | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
Maybe they are seeing it as empowering. As I have a baby | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
daughter in there, I am happy to see it go. Imagine my grandad opening up | :33:16. | :33:26. | |
his paper and they're being my bats! It should go. There is nothing wrong | :33:27. | :33:36. | |
with it. He wants it to go. What about people who think that page | :33:37. | :33:43. | |
three should be banned? Idiots. Do you know a girl called Lacey, aged | :33:44. | :33:53. | |
22, from Bedford? Good luck to her. I do not know her as a person that I | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
have heard she is nice. What about her decision to be on page three? | :34:00. | :34:06. | |
Nothing to lose. Do you think she has made Bedford proud? That is not | :34:07. | :34:15. | |
hard. What have we learned? More people want page three to stay down | :34:16. | :34:24. | |
for it to go. Most people do not really seem to care, do they? You | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
have heard a range of views. I am not arguing it should be banned. I | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
have not argued for it to be banned but I have disapproved of it since | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
the 1970s. You do not think it should be banned? I do not think | :34:43. | :34:53. | |
there should be dictating content but I do think, if you arrive from | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
outer space in this country in 21st-century Britain, and asked | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
yourself what was the role of women in society... To stand in their | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
knickers and nothing else, I think women have more to aspire to than to | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
be able to take their clothes off in public. The sun no longer has the | :35:13. | :35:22. | |
circulation, or the political importance, that it had in the 1980s | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
when page three was at its height. Aren't people just voting with their | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
feet anyway? The market is sorting this out. Half the number of people | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
buy it now than they did 20 years ago. Until the time the sun does not | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
have page three any more, I am entitled to my view that it is | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
outdated and wrong. I am happy to establish that you do not want to | :35:52. | :36:00. | |
ban it. What should happen? Should people boycott the paper? I have | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
never implied or said it should be banned. I have always been | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
forthright. Should people boycott the paper? I have not called for a | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
boycott. The women's movement, of which I am part, and this is not | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
about politicians censoring the press. I am part of the movement | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
which says women can do better than taking off their clothes and being | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
in their knickers in the newspapers. Why don't you do something about it? | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
I am doing something about it by saying it is outdated. I am not | :36:41. | :36:48. | |
doing anything more about it. Should people buy the paper as long as | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
there is a page three? Would you like to say to viewers, as long as | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
page three is in the sand, you should not buy it? Dashes-macro be | :36:59. | :37:07. | |
Son. I am saying, wake up to what the role of women in society should | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
be, which is more than page three. If they changed it in Australia, | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
which is where Rupert Murdoch came from, why can they not change it in | :37:16. | :37:22. | |
this country? You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
over 20 minutes... I'll be talking to man leading the | :37:27. | :37:37. | |
Hello, and on the Sunday Politics Wales: We'll tell you about concerns | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
that welfare reforms could result in fewer houses in the private sector | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
being rented to people on benefits. And we'll hear from the Health | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
Minister, Mark Drakeford, as he prepares to announce how the NHS | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
will deal with winter pressures. Joining me throughout today's | :37:56. | :37:57. | |
programme are two MPs: The Conservative Jonathan Evans and | :37:58. | :37:58. | |
Labour's Kevin Brennan. You were there for that service this | :37:59. | :38:31. | |
morning. What was the mood there? It was a sombre and reflective moods, | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
thinking about all of those who have sacrificed their lives on our | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
behalf. People are very aware of how this has grown as an event, perhaps | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
because we have been involved in more conflicts in recent years than | :38:49. | :38:55. | |
before. But also there is an awareness that the centenary of the | :38:56. | :39:02. | |
First World War was next year. You were nor -- you were in north | :39:03. | :39:11. | |
Cardiff. Our service is three or four miles north of the National | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
service, but it is very much a community event. The local youth | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
groups allied to the services, and more local groups plus it -- | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
participated and we can remember. There were about 500 people. That is | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
replicated right the way across Wales and I interrupt what Kevin has | :39:35. | :39:42. | |
said. Many people do understand now that these events are very relevant | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
and important to the current generation. | :39:48. | :39:49. | |
On Tuesday, the Welsh Government will announce how it will deal with | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
the increased pressure that will hit the health service this winter. | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
Several health boards have already announced how they'll cope with | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
extra emergency demands, and ministers have been working with the | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
health boards, ambulance service and social care bodies on their plans | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
for the winter ahead. And the Health Minister, Mark Drakeford, joins us | :40:06. | :40:14. | |
from our Cardiff newsroom. You will be leading a government debate on | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
Tuesday. You are a brave man because the open condition -- opposition | :40:20. | :40:28. | |
parties will relish this. I will be very happy to discuss our records. I | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
will set out the plans we have this winter, and the fact we will go into | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
this coming winter with performance across the care service at a better | :40:40. | :40:42. | |
level than we were this time last year. I am sure you will be aware of | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
comments by the Prime Minister who alluded to the possibility of a | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
winter crisis in the NHS in Wales. He doesn't think there will be a | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
crisis because there is a crisis every day in the NHS in Wales, he | :40:58. | :41:05. | |
says. That is grounded in ignorance and arrogance. He looks at the Welsh | :41:06. | :41:14. | |
NHS with an old Etonian telescope. He will be far better off | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
concentrating on the image -- on the English NHS. The coming winter will | :41:19. | :41:29. | |
give us all difficult days. What we ought to be doing is concentrating | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
on things we can learn from, to make sure we all did a very best we can | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
to make sure that patients across the United Kingdom get the service | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
they will need. And you are happy, are you, that the Welsh Government | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
is doing as much as it can to ensure these crises are dealt with? We have | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
a strong national leadership this year. We have lots of new activity | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
at local level. There is no way at all that anybody can predict | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
everything that will happen during the winter. The last winter was the | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
longest and coldest since 1963. We will hit difficulties during this | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
winter, too. But we need to make sure we have done everything we can | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
to prepare for that. So, what have you done? We have a new national | :42:19. | :42:29. | |
planning forum. We have ?10 million bringing new nurses onto our wards. | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
We have new arrangements between the ambulance service and health boards. | :42:35. | :42:42. | |
Since March of this year, when last winter was coming to an end, we have | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
been preparing for the winter we now face. The opposition parties are | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
very keen to criticise and they were very critical of the decision of the | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
health board in West Wales. Operations were being cancelled. The | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
government denies that but already, the impact of any winter crisis is | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
seeing its way to the Senate, isn't it? -- to the Senate. Opposition | :43:09. | :43:23. | |
parties cannot have it both ways. There are steps that local health | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
boards have to take. Sometimes, that will mean a new balance between | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
planned surgery and emergency surgery. We need to support what | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
local health boards are doing, and we need to support the staff. The | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
critical attitude opposition parties bring to the table is no help to | :43:45. | :43:52. | |
them patients. If I could ask you about a health inspectors comments | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
made last week: They didn't think they were in a position to be able | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
to predict or decide whether there were anything on the scale of | :44:03. | :44:09. | |
mid-Staffs happening on the scale of Welsh NHS. You couldn't be sure it | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
was happening. The inspectors say they can't be sure it isn't. Who can | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
tell us whether the NHS... Whether anything like this is going on in | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
the NHS? The Welsh NHS is not immune to the pressures that led to those | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
difficulties. However, I am confident that there is nothing to | :44:34. | :44:35. | |
those difficulties. However, I am confident that there is nothing | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
today going on in the Welsh NHS on that scale. Health inspection Wales | :44:39. | :44:47. | |
is just one strand that we have. We have inspections from the Welsh | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
audit office, we have all the things that local health boards themselves | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
do to make sure services are safe and sustainable, we have the actions | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
of Welsh Government. I am confident that today, in the Welsh NHS, the | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
conditions reported in mid-Staffs are not happening. Do I think this | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
means we are immune from that? Absolutely not. We will go on | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
seeking assurances that we need that the service patients have is a safe | :45:21. | :45:29. | |
one, and one they can rely on. Your response to what you heard there? | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
Wales is prepared perfectly to the winter ahead. The Minister is | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
lashing out to all his critics there, and I don't see it from an | :45:43. | :45:50. | |
old Etonian telescope, as he put it. Our health service and Wells is | :45:51. | :45:59. | |
underfunded, compared to England. -- in Wales. Many people are saying | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
there are real pressures that arise as a result of that and the outcomes | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
we are getting in which targets are being missed on a consistent basis. | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
That's not because people are working hard but because there has | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
not been adequate funding put into the system. I have got, in my own | :46:18. | :46:27. | |
constituency, two high-profile reports that have been done by the | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
public servers ombudsman on health service cases. -- public service. | :46:31. | :46:39. | |
Lest anyone says these are carping critics, a minister spoke about her | :46:40. | :46:49. | |
late husband's experience of a hospital in her constituency. I you | :46:50. | :46:59. | |
surprised that the Welsh NHS is featuring so prominently during PMQ | :47:00. | :47:08. | |
's? I am pleased we have Mark Drake offered as I Health Minister. -- as | :47:09. | :47:19. | |
our Health Minister. For David Cameron, it's a deflection for | :47:20. | :47:37. | |
addressing the real crises. So, it's a distraction really from answering | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
the questions the Ed Miliband puts to him every week about the NHS in | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
England. Howell reassured RU by what the minister had to say about how | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
prepared the NHS is this winter? I can't think is a better person to | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
act as I Health Minister. He is really on top of his brief and has | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
pulled together all the elements required. As you know, in the recent | :48:03. | :48:11. | |
budget settlement, more money has been put into the NHS in Wales. | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
Mark, getting out there in front of the Assembly and making the | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
statement himself an opening that up to scrutiny is an indication of the | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
approach he is taking. And he very much understand the health service | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
and understands its values and ethos. We must make sure that we | :48:32. | :48:39. | |
also celebrate the amazing achievements of our NHS. That recent | :48:40. | :48:48. | |
increase in funding is a recognition that the decision to cut health | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
funding is a problem. We have got to work together in order to improve | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
outcomes. We have just heard from Mark, dismissing everyone is carping | :48:59. | :49:07. | |
critics, that's irrelevant. People are looking for better health | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
outcomes in Wales, and ones which at least match those in England. | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
England is better than Wales. In many ways, they are better than the | :49:19. | :49:26. | |
health service there. Do you think, perhaps, the Minister could be | :49:27. | :49:33. | |
commended for coming in and talking to us? Perhaps, he is presenting | :49:34. | :49:42. | |
himself as a hostage? If there is a crisis, what he is saying today will | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
be thrown back in his face. He's being open and frank about the | :49:49. | :49:58. | |
challenges faced by the NHS. The austerity cuts have led to big | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
pressures on the budget. Mark is being upfront and frank and should | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
be congratulated for being prepared to face up to these difficulties and | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
explain to the public what the problems are and the approach the | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
Welsh Government is taking to deal with how you deal with this with | :50:17. | :50:23. | |
limited resources. The resource question suggests that not enough | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
money is there and it is being cut by your government. How money gets | :50:29. | :50:37. | |
spent as a choice. The government here in Wales decide to buy Cardiff | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
airport, then say they don't have enough money to buy other things. | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
These are all priorities. I have known marker for many years, but he | :50:47. | :50:55. | |
is an assembly minister. It's his job to be accountable. The only | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
reason we are saying it is good that he is doing this is because there | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
are too many other ministers who don't think they need to be | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
accountable at all. One of the country's biggest private | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
landlords has told this programme that benefit changes could put his | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
business at risk. The UK government says it's making the system more | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
fair but Carmarthenshire-based Kevin Green fears tenants will fall behind | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
on their rent when a new system of paying benefits is introduced. Our | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
political reporter, Daniel Davies, spent the day with him. | :51:27. | :51:36. | |
Kevin Green, a landlord and entrepreneur, but he concerned of | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
the knock-on effect of welfare reforms. If rent payment is put in a | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
tenant's hand, they have not been told how to budget. It will lead to | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
huge arrears. He's built a small property empire. I spent the morning | :51:55. | :52:04. | |
with him to hear how he thinks the overhaul to the welfare state will | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
changes business. Because I am on my own with all the children... I met | :52:11. | :52:18. | |
one of his tenants. Her benefits were capped in August. She gets just | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
over ?500 a week but is behind on rent. I can't afford to pay all my | :52:24. | :52:32. | |
bills. I run out of money before I am due to get my next lot of | :52:33. | :52:40. | |
benefits. I am struggling. We don't know how many people here would have | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
had their benefits capped. Just over 700 people in Wales were affected, | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
but a much bigger change to the welfare system is on its way. | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
Universal credit will merge six benefit payments into one monthly | :52:56. | :53:09. | |
payment. Because I was homeless myself in 1984, I tentatively | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
towards helping people who are high-priority tenants. One of the | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
options for me, that will have to stop. The UK government wants to: | :53:18. | :53:35. | |
Years ago, Kevin Green was sleeping rough. Now, keep teachers of the | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
people how to make a fortune. Universal credit will be phased in | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
in four years. This wealth coach says he's not convinced it will out. | :53:49. | :53:56. | |
We have heard many criticisms of this plan from the UK government, | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
one from a surprising source there. I find it difficult to have a great | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
deal of sympathy for Mr Green, having built up his property empire | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
and made his fortune in this way. But I do have sympathy with a lot of | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
the people who come to see me in my surgeries who need help with their | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
rent. Some of the changes that the Government have been making make no | :54:24. | :54:30. | |
sense, like the bedroom tax. What about the benefits? That's affecting | :54:31. | :54:38. | |
lots of constituents as well. We said we would support a, but we need | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
to look at the impact it is happening on families. Also, there | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
are other changes like paying the rent direct to tenants. I understand | :54:50. | :54:55. | |
the purpose is to help them budget, but in practice, with the bedroom | :54:56. | :55:03. | |
tax, housing associations talk about knocking flats down because they can | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
no longer fill them. And in the case of direct payments, its resulting in | :55:09. | :55:15. | |
rent arrears growing. You said you didn't have much sympathy for Mr | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
Green. I am sure you don't. Well, he has looked at the fact that the | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
Government is funding ?22 billion in housing benefit, and he would like a | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
situation where the Government cut out the middle person altogether. He | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
says he wants to help people in a sticky situation. That's all well | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
and good, but vulnerable people will be helped by the changes the | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
Government is putting forward. Up until now, we have cut out the | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
middleman. Mr Green gets his cheque on a regular basis. But the test | :55:55. | :56:02. | |
found that 95% of people are perfectly capable of receiving | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
housing benefit and settling their housing costs on a regular basis | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
without increases in arrears. In 5% of cases, those arrears went up. We | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
need to find a mechanism where we ensure the vulnerable people need | :56:18. | :56:25. | |
direct payment. But that the other 95%, we shouldn't treat these people | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
as though they are incapable of understanding anything. I would | :56:32. | :56:39. | |
welcome a change being made to help vulnerable people. That test also | :56:40. | :56:47. | |
showed a big increase in arrears. Everyone of them are individual | :56:48. | :56:56. | |
cases. They may have a multitude of other issues they are trying to deal | :56:57. | :57:06. | |
with. And that is not happening, because the pilot showed those rent | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
arrears are going up for the most vulnerable tenants. There should be | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
a mechanism to help those. On his first official visit to the | :57:15. | :57:35. | |
National assembly, the new US ambassador to Britain said UK | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
membership of the European Union was entirely a matter for the UK | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
government. There was no gunpowder, treason and plot at Westminster as | :57:46. | :57:52. | |
20 MPs took part in a rocket launching competition. They joined | :57:53. | :58:04. | |
apprentices from across the UK. Alan cares -- Alan Cairns proposed. -- | :58:05. | :58:17. | |
proposed a new law. Before kick-off at the Wales rugby match, the first | :58:18. | :58:26. | |
Minister gave the Duke of Cambridge a certificate. | :58:27. | :58:41. | |
You have had a debate on nuisance calls a decade ago. I introduced a | :58:42. | :58:50. | |
ten minute rule Bill about ten mean -- about ten years ago. It's like | :58:51. | :59:00. | |
that old game were some kids used to play, where you knocked on doors and | :59:01. | :59:10. | |
ran away. Well, companies did that. You had a debate last week. Tell us | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
about that. The hype point for me was a debate on family | :59:17. | :59:23. | |
annihilation. We need to drill down into these cases, understand a lot | :59:24. | :59:27. | |
more about them and change our public policy in order to reduce the | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
incidence of these terrible events happening. From the research you've | :59:32. | :59:40. | |
done, the circumstances of those cases in the UK different to | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
circumstances in other countries? Absolutely. In 80% of those cases in | :59:46. | :59:52. | |
Europe and the United States, the weapon used is a gun. In the UK, we | :59:53. | :00:00. | |
have fewer of those cases, but guns are used in less than 20% of cases. | :00:01. | :00:13. | |
The US ambassador was here. He said it's a matter for the UK whether the | :00:14. | :00:23. | |
UK stays in the EU. I agree. America is discussing with us a new trade | :00:24. | :00:25. | |
deal. more equipment so they can see | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
cyclists. Back to you, Andrew. We learned this week that no more | :00:29. | :00:42. | |
warships will be built at Portsmouth, the home of the Royal | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
Navy since the days of the Mary Rose and Francis Drake. But has the city | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
been sacrificed to save jobs on the Clyde in Scotland? Is England the | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
loser in an effort to keep the United Kingdom intact? Let's speak | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign for an English Parliament. Is | :00:58. | :01:08. | |
England the loser in this attempt to keep the | :01:09. | :01:09. | |
doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English | :01:10. | :01:17. | |
Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year? | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
true representation. The union continues but it continues without | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year? We | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
or England can have a fair deal, within the union, that is brilliant. | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally. If | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes, | :02:36. | :02:44. | |
it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament, | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
British come English Parliament, the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly. | :04:07. | :04:15. | |
Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
to have their representation - representation that looks at | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system | :04:38. | :04:49. | |
might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
implement the process is to get their representation for England. I | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education. | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
British government is trying desperately to save the union by | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two. | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more | :07:03. | :07:10. | |
autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde, | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
being in the United Kingdom and, under their breath, or in the case | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave! | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So, | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I | :08:14. | :08:22. | |
have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it? | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine? I | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around | :08:54. | :09:18. | |
you who took cocaine, they went... Is it better to confess or the that | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant | :09:54. | :10:04. | |
to be regarded as a rising star, turns out he was claiming to heat | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy | :10:29. | :10:36. | |
is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot, | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you | :10:51. | :10:58. | |
cannot have a front line career. There is the politician confessing | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine. He | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him. | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised. | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 2014, | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
will have two find an extra ?400 a month to pay them off. I would not | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this | :12:15. | :12:26. | |
trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very | :12:27. | :12:35. | |
careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates. | :12:52. | :13:01. | |
-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
about it, it is senior figures - people in senior economic positions. | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am. | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:34. | :13:44. |