Browse content similar to 15/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio. | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
The advance of the Islamist army on Baghdad has been slowed. | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
The Iraqi army claims the fightback has begun. | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
But the country now faces a de facto partition. | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
What should Britain, Europe, or the US be doing - if anything? | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
It's been a big week in the Scottish referendum. | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
But has the tone of the debate become too downright nasty? | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
Both sides join us to go head to head. | :01:03. | :01:10. | |
I will swap Ed Miliband for Tim Farren. What is the significance of | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
that? Later in the programme, in his | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
even Westminster, we'll be asking Later in the programme, in his | :01:16. | :01:28. | |
In London, why the minority vote one Owen Smith says councils | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
In London, why the minority vote one recent elections Labour, but recent | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
support amongst people is bigger than assumed. | :01:33. | :01:43. | |
The Sunni Islamist army known as ISIS is now in control | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
of huge swathes of northern and western Iraq, including | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
Until the weekend they looked like advancing relentlessly | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
on Baghdad but that offensive has now been slowed or even halted | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
The Iraqi army and its Shia milita allies vow that | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
Baghdad will not be taken and that a counter-attack will soon begin. | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
Iraq's Shia Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has to do something to | :02:07. | :02:08. | |
reverse the humiliation of recent days, which saw | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
his US-trained and equipped Iraqi army, which outnumbered | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
the Islamists 15 to 1 melt away or surrender when confronted by ISIS. | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
The conflict has already created a humanitarian crisis, with hundreds | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
The Kurds have used the conflict to consolidate their hold on their | :02:23. | :02:32. | |
autonomous area in the north, parts of the west and the north are in the | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
grip of ISIS control and the Shias are hunkering down in the east. | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
All of which makes a three-way partition a real possibility with | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
The US is moving another of its massive aircraft carrier | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
battlefleets to the Gulf, though the White House shows no | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
While Iran says it's ready to help its Shia allies | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
and there are unconfoirmed reports that its revolutionary guard has | :02:54. | :02:55. | |
Well, I'm joined now by Newsnight's diplomatic editor Mark Urban. | :02:56. | :03:08. | |
Let's start with some basics. Who are ISIS and why are they | :03:09. | :03:18. | |
controlling big chunks of Iraq? ISIS is an extremist militant jihad | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
organisation and they have a pure Islamic concept based on 14th | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
century history and jurisprudence. What they want to do is correct -- | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
create this caliphate that do not recognise colonial boundaries so it | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
involves Syria and Iraq, and they could go down to Lebanon and | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
Palestine, that is all fair game as far as they are concerned. And they | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
have this strict interpretation of Islam. The more interesting question | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
is why have semi-Sunni Muslims, along with them, these are precisely | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
the sort of people who in 2006, 2007, tribal leaders in the west of | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
the country rose up against. It was called the Awakening and the | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
Americans in power did and bankrolled it. These people turned | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
against them and admired them in large numbers, so why do they have | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
so many Sunni Muslims on their side? We hear about people going | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
back to Mosul. I think the answer is a perception | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
back to Mosul. I think the answer that the current government is | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
ruling in sectarian interests, Shia Muslim interest, and the Sunni | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
Muslims want self-determination and this is their best bet. | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
Muslims want self-determination and this is their Let me put up this map | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
to find out where we are going. We can see Mosul in the north, they | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
took that, and then they started, South, reports that the crit was | :04:37. | :04:46. | |
involved -- to grit -- to grit. What is the situation on the ground now? | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
We are in what you might call a consolidation or strategic pause as | :04:52. | :05:00. | |
American called it in 2003. ISIS are trying to consolidate their power in | :05:01. | :05:01. | |
Mosul, and now they have this major trying to consolidate their power in | :05:02. | :05:02. | |
Mosul, and now they have this major city and they are trying to show | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
they can run the city and get the power going, etc. Their southernmost | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
forces, that is a gorilla army, guys in pick-up trucks. They cannot deal | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
with serious opposition. They would like to get the tanks and other | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
things into action but that could take weeks for them to be able to do | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
it. The government side is that they have counter-attacked, but it will | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
take a little while before these newly raised militia and other task | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
forces, call them what you will, can effectively counter-attacked. But | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
that is what will happen in the next week or two. We will see | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
increasingly large and serious government counter-attacked trying | :05:44. | :05:51. | |
to retake those places, and I fear a really difficult, bloody Syrian | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
style street by street battle for some of these urban centres. I would | :05:57. | :06:04. | |
like to have a look at this map, because the Kurds, as I mentioned, | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
they are consolidating their position in the autonomous region in | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
the north. The Islamist are taking over huge chunks of the Sunni Muslim | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
West. And of course the Shia Muslim are still dominant in control of | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
Baghdad and in parts of the south and east. Back to me looks like the | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
beginnings of the partition of Iraq. -- back to me. Well, it is, but we | :06:26. | :06:35. | |
have to caveat it in a few ways. Firstly, there are millions of | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
people in Iraq, so-called sushi, combined families, who do not fit | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
easily into the pattern. Do we see millions of people becoming refugees | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
under this scheme? There would be a lot of human tragedies if people | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
really did try to enforce this type partition. Secondly, there are Sunni | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
Muslim communities in the south of Baghdad, those places, once again, a | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
lot of misery and fighting will occur if people try to enforce a de | :07:06. | :07:15. | |
facto partition. There are still an awakening of forces. They are on the | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
side of the government. We heard about one group in Samarra of Sunni | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
Muslims fighting on the same side. It's a complex picture. They factor, | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
it does look like a partition, and if it goes further in that direction | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
it will. And partition will always be messy because people end up on | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
the wrong side of the lies. Finally, the big thing on that map, | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
Iran, a huge place, a huge border with Shia Muslim Iraq. Iran now | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
becomes a key factor. It is becoming a proxy war for Iran. Yes, when I | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
was in Baghdad a few months ago, I did actually see Iranians | :07:59. | :07:59. | |
revolutionary guards in uniform. They were protecting a senior | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
Iranians official, so some numbers have been never some time and they | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
are also said to protect the political leaders and -- in his | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
compound. They are there. We think more of them are trying to organise | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
the defence of Baghdad to galvanise the Iraqi army, and they will not | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
allow the Iraqi government to fall. Mark, thank you for marking archive | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
this morning. -- marking our card. Tony Blair took Britain | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
into the Iraq conflict in 2003. He's now, among other things, envoy | :08:32. | :08:33. | |
to the Middle East representing That's the UN, the EU, | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
the US and Russia. This morning he entered | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
the debate about what should be My point is simple. If you left | :08:40. | :08:50. | |
Saddam in place in 2003, when 2011 happened and you have the Arab | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
revolutions going through Tunisia, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain and Egypt and | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
Syria, you would still have had a major problem in Iraq. You can see | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
what happens when you leave the dictator in place, as has happened | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
with Bashar al-Assad. The problem doesn't go away. What I'm trying to | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
say is, we can rerun the debates about 2003, and there are perfectly | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
legitimate points on either side, but where we are in 2014, we have do | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
understand that this is a regional problem, but a problem that will | :09:22. | :09:22. | |
affect us. And I'm joined by the former Foreign | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
Office minister Mark Malloch-Brown, Here in London are James Rubin, | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
he was chief spokesman for the State Department under | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
Bill Clinton, and Bayan Rahman, she represents the Kurdistan | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
Regional government in the UK. Intervened in Iraq, it's a shambles, | :09:36. | :09:51. | |
we don't intervene in Syria, it's a shambles. What lessons should we | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
draw? That is a well framed question, because that is the | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
problem. Tony Blair is half right. Iraq, like Syria, would probably | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
have been a problem even without an intervention. But one wishes someone | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
would tell him to stay quiet during moments like this, because it does | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
drive a great surge of people in the other direction. The fact is, what | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
has been missing in western politics towards the Middle East throughout | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
both episodes, Syria and Iraq, is a drive to build an inclusive, | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
democratic centre which is secular and nonsectarian. That has been | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
missing amongst the threats of invasion Manon invasion, we have | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
just constantly neglected the diplomatic nation-building | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
dimensional this. I want to come onto what is happening on the | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
ground. I want to begin with what the Western response by me, and by | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
that we mean the United States, because of it doesn't do anything, | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
nobody will do anything. All of the signals I see coming out of the | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
White is that Barack Obama has no appetite for intervention -- out of | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
the White House. I don't think he does have an appetite. He would be | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
very unlikely to do anything very large. He might feel pressured to | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
act because of the fact that this particular group, this Al-Qaeda | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
inspired group, fits into the strategy he has pursued in Yemen and | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
Afghanistan and Pakistan, to use drone strikes against individual | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
terrorists. So it is possible that the threat of ISIS in the region and | :11:26. | :11:35. | |
the West in general might inspire him to act, but the idea he will do | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
enough, militarily, to transform Iraq from its current state of civil | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
War into something along the lines that Mark was talking about, | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
nation-building diplomacy, a big operation, I don't see President | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
Obama sees his historic mission as having got the United States as out | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
of it. Leave it to the Pacific, perhaps. What would the Kurds like | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
the West to do? First of all, in Kurdistan we face a huge | :12:09. | :12:10. | |
humanitarian crisis. We already have had bought a quarter of a million | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
Syrian refugees and we were struggling to cope with that. And | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
now we have at least double that number of refugees coming from | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
Mosul. First and foremost, we are calling on the international | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
community to help us with that. So we need humanitarian aid? Let's | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
assume we do that in some way, maybe not enough, but what else if | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
anything? I think it is an incumbent on the west and other powers to | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
assist Iraq to get rid of ISIS. I think the Sunni Arab community, some | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
of whom have joined ISIS and may be supported the uprising, have | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
justified complaints against the federal government. But we need the | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
terrorists out of Iraq. That is first and foremost. And what the | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
West can do is not necessarily intervene with boots on the ground, | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
but provide technical assistance, provide intelligence and help the | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
Iraqi army and air force to be more targeted. Can you defend yourselves? | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
In Kurdistan, we can in terms of the disciplined troops. In this | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
situation, I hope they won't be abandoning their post, that is for | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
sure. It is a national cause fires. But we are not armed in the way that | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
the Iraqi army is -- cause for us. We are not armed in the way that | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
ISIS seems to be now they have seized some of the American kit. We | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
are not asking for weapons, but we ask for assistance for all of Iraq | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
to deal with the situation. Mark, this is not just an Iraqi problem. | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
This is a regional conflict, and from the Levant on the shores of the | :13:53. | :13:54. | |
Mediterranean, all the way through to the Gulf, the region is gripped | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
with what is essentially a Sunni and Shia Muslim sectarian war. Yes, with | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
the caveats that Mark bourbon made earlier, it's not quite that | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
straightforward, but the basic divide is exactly that -- Mark | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
Urban. People have been looking for this to begin in Lebanon or Jordan | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
and have been taken by surprise although with hindsight I'm not sure | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
why, that it has begun in Iraq instead. At its most extreme, it | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
risks redrawing the 20th century boundaries of the region in a way | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
which would be highly unstable because it would pit a Shia Muslim | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
bloc against the Sunni Muslim bloc and would undo all of the sort of | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
social and economic advance of the last century, so the stakes are | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
suddenly very, very high indeed. Are we seeing the redrawing? The lines | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
were drawn secretly, not far from here, about a mile away, and may | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
have survived through thick and thin. They now look pretty fragile. | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
The map is being redrawn. I think it is true that there is a key factor | :15:02. | :15:09. | |
partition going on -- des facto. Woodrow Wilson probably gave a bit | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
of a hand to the promotion of the idea of self-determination, and in a | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
way, there is a self determination going on, particularly in the | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
Kurdish region, and perhaps they may end up the big winners in all of | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
this, because they have proceeded with a relatively moderate, | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
reconcilable government. The key thing that the Kurdish region has | :15:32. | :15:40. | |
done. They used to fight the two groups, and now they fight together. | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
What the Sunni Muslims have not done is figure out how to let politics | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
let the side things instead of guns. We need to look clearly and in Syria | :15:51. | :16:00. | |
and Iraq, if there is a Sunni extremist with ISIS that carves out | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
a place for itself, it will be the great irony of the modern era. | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
President Bush said he wanted to go into Iraq to fight terrorism. There | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
was no terrorist. There are now. If in Iraq and Syria together thereat a | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
thousand strong Al-Qaeda capability that threatens the region, the | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
West, the world, we are all going to have to do something about it. | :16:30. | :16:48. | |
The danger is that power will spread. This could grow in power. | :16:49. | :16:59. | |
You would not want it on your southern border. Absolutely, we | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
would not. The point we are all making indirectly is that things | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
have changed in Iraq and will never be the same again. Whether Iraq | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
completely disintegrates into three countries, or whether it stays | :17:13. | :17:14. | |
together as one country, but a countries, or whether it stays | :17:15. | :17:16. | |
together as one country, but loose federation, either way, Iraq has | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
changed. It will not go back to what it was. I hope it will change for | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
the better. I think we're at the make or break point for Iraq. Either | :17:28. | :17:35. | |
the political readers -- the political leaders of a right wake up | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
and smell the coffee and put aside their differences or there will be | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
problems. This provides that opportunity, in a very nasty way. If | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
we take it? Yes, and if not, I think this is the end of a rack as we know | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
it. If anything resembling a caliphate emerges, that is very | :17:57. | :18:04. | |
destabilising for the region itself. More so I would suggest than even | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. At some stage, you have | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
to assume that they will be coming for us. That is correct. This is | :18:13. | :18:26. | |
extremely dangerous. The only way forward is for these political | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
groups to talk to each other and find a compromise that allows the | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
rates of cinemas and minorities in Iraq to be protected within or the | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
rates of cinemas and minorities in Iraq to be protected with an | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
autonomous federal-state. Any support for the government must be | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
premised on that. There is no military solution for this which is | :18:46. | :18:58. | |
in during -- there is no military solution for this. There must be | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
serious political negotiation, not with ISIS, but with Sunni Muslim | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
moderates, to form a more representative government. This is | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
the last chance for Iraq. I think we are all saying that that is going to | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
need to be some major western leadership to make some big | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
decisions here for the future of the region. I am concerned that after | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
Afghanistan and Iraq, my country is quite world-weary, quite | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
world-weary. It does not seem to be giving leadership. Certainly we are | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
not seeing that in Europe. I am deeply concerned that we are not | :19:39. | :19:41. | |
going to take the leadership role that needs to be taken. These are | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
big issues. When Britain and France carved up the Middle East, they were | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
world powers, operating as global powers, and without that global | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
leadership by somebody, this is just going to get worse and worse. I | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
think we will leave it there, thank you very much. | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
The danger is that power will spread. This could grow in power. | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
It is just under 100 days until the referendum on Scottish independence. | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
So, for once, it'll be a long hot-summer | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
But the campaign isn't just getting heated. | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
In places it's also down-right nasty. When | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
Scotland's best-selling author announced she was giving | :20:23. | :20:24. | |
the unionist cause a million pounds this week, she received | :20:25. | :20:26. | |
Independence supporters online, so-called cybernats, | :20:27. | :20:34. | |
called JK Rowling a traitor and much worse, using a variety of | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
For its part, the Better Together campaign has been accused | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
Even Gordon Brown seems to think so, and this week he criticised | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
Conservative ministers for relying on "threats | :20:45. | :20:46. | |
With the Edinburgh Festival approaching, reports suggest even | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
comedians are now reluctant to engage in the subject because | :20:52. | :20:53. | |
I'm joined by Blair Jenkins from Yes Scotland and Jackie Baillie | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
They're both in our Glasgow studio, and they're going head to head. | :21:01. | :21:15. | |
Blair Jenkins, let me come to you first. Why have you and the Better | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
Together campaign and Alex Salmond not done more to slap down the cyber | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
nationalists who are poisoning the debate? Good morning. I think both | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
sides tried to stop the tiny number of people on both sides who are | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
incapable of controlling themselves. We should not get this | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
out of proportion. We are having a fantastic, decent and democratic | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
debate. The people who probably total no more than 100 on both sides | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
who post offensive material or not to be allowed to deflect from that | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
fact. Of course there are nasty people on the Better Together side | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
as well, but are you saying there are as many of those as the cyber | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
nationalists? I have not done the Kent. Lots of people are certainly | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
posting nasty in defensive things to people in the yes campaigners well. | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
I imagine that people do what I do, and block them. You stop them from | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
sending anything further. There is a democratic and in gauging progress | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
going on throughout Scotland. It is characterised by good humour and | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
good debate. We should not get out of proportion and the activities of | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
the number of people. I want to get to Jackie Baillie. The debate is | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
actually pretty good-humoured and you should be doing more about the | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
nasties on your side as well? I think we have reached a new low this | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
week. Despite many people engaging in the politics of the decision and | :22:48. | :22:49. | |
the debate about that, whether we want to retain the best of both | :22:50. | :22:56. | |
worlds are separate from the United Kingdom, what we have seen is the | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
most abusive and vitriolic attack, particularly on women, JK Rowling | :23:01. | :23:08. | |
and a Labour supporter who dared to support the no campaign. When you | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
look at the number of people on social media, there are more from | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
the yes campaign than the no site. We should all be condemning attacks, | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
from whatever quarter they come. This seemed to be connected to the | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
office of the First Minister. What is the evidence for that? There was | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
an e-mail from one of the... I understand about that, but it did | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
not use vile words. It did not, but it repeated the same mistake as on | :23:40. | :23:48. | |
the website. We should be clear that we need to condemn these attacks, | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
but it is not just the water works, it is taking action. There was an | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
IpsosMORI poll this week which was varying testing. It showed the | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
population as a whole, farmer people think that Yes Scotland is running | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
an effective campaign as against Better Together. It is a undecided | :24:07. | :24:14. | |
voters think this by a majority of four 21. Some people are worried | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
about of the campaign. JK Rowling, Scotland's most successful author of | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
all time. She gives ?1 million to the Better Together campaign. She | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
then faces some of the most incredible abuse. I know what it is | :24:31. | :24:38. | |
like because I have had some myself. Traitor, Quisling. I cannot use some | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
of the words, it is Sunday morning. Why does Scottish Nationalists | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
culture have such a revolting fringe? JK Rowling is entitled to | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
our views and it is unacceptable if people say offensive things about | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
her or anyone else who voices and opinion in this debate. Who are | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
obese people? When you look at the accounts of some of the people who | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
were posting these things about JK Rowling, they were using the same | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
sort of language about film stars and football stars. This was just | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
part of their language on Twitter. How often has Alex Salmond condemned | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
the cyber nationalists? Very often. Everyone in the campaign hands. By | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
common consent, Yes Scotland is running a thoroughly positive | :25:29. | :25:30. | |
campaign, much more positive than Better Together. Jackie Baillie, it | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
hardly helps matters when Alistair Darling, who runs your campaign, | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
compares Alex Salmond to Kim Jong Il and North Korea. That hardly | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
elevates the debate? I think we need to elevate the debate. There are | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
less than a hundred days to go. It is a massive decision. We need to | :25:52. | :26:00. | |
elevate the debate beyond attacks. I think there is much more that Yes | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
Scotland and the SNP can do. You have made that point. Why are you | :26:05. | :26:13. | |
running a campaign based on fear? The codename of your campaign is | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
even project fear. It is threats. You cannot have the pound, there | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
will be no shipbuilding. You will be flooded by immigrants. Why are you | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
so negative? I am not negative at all and neither is the campaign. The | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
campaign has asked questions and I think it is legitimate to ask | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
questions of the people proposing such a fundamental change. People | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
care about the economy, their jobs, their families. What would happen to | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
them if they leave the rest of the United Kingdom. I think it is | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
legitimate to ask questions. I refuse to be asked of | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
scaremongering. People deserve answers. The yes campaign is equally | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
guilty of some of the most outrageous scaremongering. Maybe you | :27:03. | :27:10. | |
are both scaremongering. Blair Jenkins, the First Minister said of | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
the cyber nationalists, that they are just Daft folk, as if they were | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
mischievous little children. It is worse than that. When you look at | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
what they say, they are twisted, perhaps even evil minds. I would not | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
disagree with his comments, but they are directed at just a small number | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
of people. The story of this campaign is not the story of what | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
people are saying on Twitter. Around Scotland, lots of people are getting | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
engaged in debate to have been tuned out of the political process. Today, | :27:46. | :27:52. | |
we have 47% support for the yes campaign. The movement in the | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
campaign is towards yes. People know we have a better campaign, a vision | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
for Scotland. The latest poll of polls does not show that. Both | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
sides, you always take the opinion polls that show you in the best | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
light. All politicians do that. Jackie Baillie, your campaign is not | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
just negative, it is patronising. You make dubious claims that Scots | :28:17. | :28:25. | |
would be ?1400 better off by staying in the union, and then you say that | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
the kids use the money to scoff 280 hotdogs at the Edinburgh Festival. | :28:33. | :28:34. | |
The fate of the nation is in your hands and that is the best you can | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
do? I think you will find that the campaign is something that we are | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
taking the message to people. Then why are you talking about hotdogs? I | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
do not. The campaign did. We are taking a positive message to people | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
across Scotland about the benefits of the United Kingdom. We believe we | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
are stronger and more secure and more stable, being part of that | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
family of nations that is the United Kingdom. At the same time, we have | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
the strange and power over things like education and transport. I | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
understand that. I am not doing the issues today, I am talking about the | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
tone of the campaign. I have one very important question. Who would | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
you supporting last night in the England-Italy match? I was not | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
watching the game. I would be delighted to see England do well in | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
this tournament. I have Argentina in the office sweepstake. I have to | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
keep some attention on them, but I would be delighted to seeing Clint | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
do well. That is because you think it will help your campaign. It will | :29:47. | :29:54. | |
annoy the Scots. Jackie Baillie? I was supporting England. I was also | :29:55. | :29:55. | |
supporting Portugal. Now most of you probably missed last | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
night's football match between England and Italy because | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
you wanted to get an early night and England lost | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
despite a plucky effort, I'm told. But even Westminster is | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
in the grip of World Cup fever and with speculation | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
about the fitness of each political party's team we sent Adam out to | :30:15. | :30:16. | |
tackle some of the big players. Well, this is | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
the closest I'll get to Rio. This year everybody seems to have | :30:24. | :30:36. | |
gone a bit mad Belize, football stickers. Let's see who I will get. | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
Oh, the suspense -- a bit mad for these. George Osborne? That is | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
because we leapt on the bandwagon and made Alan political stickers. | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
They're hotter than a Brazilian barbecue. | :30:51. | :30:52. | |
And at Westminster they're turning into collector?s items. | :30:53. | :30:54. | |
Sunday politics political stickers. We have one of you, Norman. Would | :30:55. | :31:04. | |
you like it? Do you want to start collecting, Bob? Would you like a | :31:05. | :31:06. | |
packet? collecting, Bob? Would you like a | :31:07. | :31:06. | |
Thank you. No album, I'm afraid. collecting, Bob? Would you like a | :31:07. | :31:14. | |
Thank you. No album, I've got Michael Gove, next to to Reza, and | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
two of the Prime Minister. -- next to Theresa. I am sure Michael has | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
Theresa in her stick around, and vice versa. | :31:27. | :31:28. | |
These Tory ones are proving very popular | :31:29. | :31:30. | |
since she fell out with him out how to handle extremism in schools. | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
And there's been open speculation about him taking on him in | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
Then there are rumours of a reshuffle of the whole Tory album. | :31:37. | :31:44. | |
Do you think there will be any swapping in the Tory leadership | :31:45. | :31:54. | |
soon? Who knows? David Cameron has also got to replace the EU | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
commissioner, Cathy Ashton, who is standing down. | :31:59. | :31:59. | |
Does he go with the favourite the former health secretary | :32:00. | :32:01. | |
Or the grassroots choice, Martin Callanan, the Tories old | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
Or does he rehabilitate Andrew Mitchell after Plebgate? | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
Do you fancy being European Commissioner? I would rather be | :32:09. | :32:23. | |
spending the money on the world's poor and spending it well. Glad to | :32:24. | :32:25. | |
hear it. Happy collecting. Right, there must be some Labour | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
stickers out there. You don't want to swap Ed Balls any | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
of the others? Can't I keep them all? This is almost the perfect | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
team. There have been grumblings | :32:39. | :32:39. | |
about the fitness of the Shadow And Ed Miliband's got a kicking | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
in Liverpool after posing I'm told grown men are meeting up | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
in pubs for sticker swaps - With Danny Finkelstein - | :32:47. | :32:57. | |
Tory peer and Times columnist, He would be the card I would not | :32:58. | :33:11. | |
want to trade. Do people want to trade him in? I don't think anybody | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
wants to trade him in at the moment. He is the best person to lead the | :33:17. | :33:19. | |
Labour party and will lead us into the next election. There's been a | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
lot about Michael Gove, and he's very combative. That's been a huge | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
strength as an education Secretary, despite the fact it's brought in | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
trouble. I would think the prime minister would tell him not to get | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
himself into peripheral battles at the moment but stick to what has | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
been successful. I haven't got Nick Clegg, but I got me. Controversy | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
amongst collectors of Lib Dems. I need to give away me in return for | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
Nick Clegg. That would be far better. There you are. | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
Some local parties are holding meetings about his leadership, | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
but at one in Cambridge this week they voted to stick with him. | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
You have got a Euro Commissioner. Why don't I swap, I will swap Ed | :34:00. | :34:09. | |
Miliband for Tim Farren. Can I do that? What is the significance of | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
that? Very significant. Happy collecting. | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
These beauties are popping up everywhere, but sadly they won't | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
Adam is still doing the samba around Westminster as I speak. | :34:21. | :34:30. | |
I'm joined by three journalists who've been | :34:31. | :34:32. | |
furiously swapping stickers throughout the show, they certainly | :34:33. | :34:34. | |
weren't allowed to stay up to watch the football, it's Nick Watt, | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
We will talk about Labour after the break, and I want to concentrate on | :34:38. | :34:45. | |
the Tories, but the moment, Nick, senior Tories are saying privately | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
that they might win next May. They are beginning to dream the dream. So | :34:51. | :34:58. | |
why are they doing all this jockeying? I think the jockeying for | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
the leadership is about a year old. What stoped it up was when Theresa | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
gave a speech to the conference, and people said she was doing it just in | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
case, when things were not looking too good. She is not on manoeuvres. | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
I think it was a policy row that drove the differences with Michael | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
Gove. But Michael Gove is on manoeuvres, and he is trying to | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
protect George Osborne from, he believes, a serious threat from | :35:27. | :35:34. | |
Boris Johnson and possibly Theresa. It is quite self-indulgent when you | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
are a couple of points behind, the economy is going your way, to be | :35:38. | :35:39. | |
involved in this sort of stuff. Extraordinary. It shows the toxic | :35:40. | :35:51. | |
disease that gnaws at the entrails of the Tory party, and Cameron is | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
their great asset. He is more popular than the party, he bridges | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
the gap is, and he has an extraordinary dissemble and some | :36:01. | :36:02. | |
pretending to be this moderate while never the lens -- nevertheless | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
leading the most far right wing government we have had since the | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
war, and that has been a brilliant piece of political Charente and they | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
would be crazy to get rid of it -- political Charente. | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
piece of political Charente and they would be crazy to get rid of it -- | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
charades. Does this rumble on? I have an unfashionable view as there | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
aren't half as many leadership plots taking place in Westminster as we | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
assume, and the willingness to read strategic calculation into anything | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
that takes place comes from people watching I Claudius or house of | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
cards. That hasn't been off -- on for years. I needed a reference from | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
your time. I needed something. Maybe brief encounter? It's a stylised | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
view of how politics works, and so much more in life is about | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
randomness and mistakes. Boris Johnson, Theresa May, Michael Gove | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
as George Osborne's man on earth, they are positioning themselves. -- | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
Janan wrote an eloquent comment this week about this, but there are | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
certain realities that. Michael Gove had that famous dinner with Rupert | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
Murdoch a few weeks ago in which he said that you must not make Boris | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
Johnson leader of the Conservative party, George Osborne is my man. | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
Theresa May set out her credo two years ago and people on her team | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
were saying that she was doing it just in case. People are out there | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
and are thinking of the future, but I do think Janan is right. In the | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
village, in the thick of it mindset, you can get a bit carried away and | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
you can be a bit in the famous. That is before your era. He died. What | :37:42. | :37:49. | |
did he mean by it. You can get a bit carried away by it. I will have | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
words with you during the break. It's just gone 11.35, you're | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :37:56. | :37:57. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
be talking about Ed Miliband's politics Wales, we round of the | :38:01. | :38:27. | |
BBC's measuring revolution week. Wales is hosting a major conference | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
on bovine tuberculosis but is the vaccination programme working? | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
And as we measured revolution, we get Welsh opinions and hear Scottish | :38:40. | :38:47. | |
voices on independence for Scotland. First, the Shadow Welsh Secretary is | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
urging council leaders to take the lead in reforming element. Labour's | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
Owen Smith says they should be trusted to get on with the job of | :38:56. | :39:02. | |
restructuring. He has been speaking ahead of Welsh local government's | :39:03. | :39:12. | |
conference in Llandudno this week. What is the vision for Welsh local | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
government? For ministers in Cardiff Bay it involves fewer councils. The | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
status quo, they say, is not an option. | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
At one end of the argument is Cardiff Council and at the other end | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
is the Vale of Glamorgan. Under proposals put forward by a | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
government commission, these two councils would emerge. | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
Another suggestion is for Kerrigan -- Ceredigion to join up with | :39:40. | :39:49. | |
Pembrokeshire. Ceredigion's leader says there have | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
been no discussions of murdering and there is no money to pay for it. | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
We need to keep our focus firmly on the ball of service delivery, that | :40:02. | :40:03. | |
is what people on the ground want. Local people need local services. | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
Pulling the focus is away from those services will not do anyone any good | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
in this difficult time. Now, it is back in January that the | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
Williams commission recommended some councils should merge as part of a | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
plan to improve public services. It has put forward a new council map | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
with 12 councils. The government says it will give a | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
formal response to the Williams commission report and put its | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
council map before the summer recess. It wanted cross-party | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
agreement. That has not happened and some leaders could take some | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
persuading. Shadow Secretary Owen Smith says councils need to be | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
trusted to drive the process forward. | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
Ultimately this has to be something that is collaborative. It has to be | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
something that is not imposed from above, it has to be driven by local | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
government itself because that is the way in which we will end up with | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
the best fit between local services and local people. I am saying to | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
local government leaders, it has to be driven by local government itself | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
because that is the way in which we will end up with the best fit | :41:15. | :41:16. | |
between local services and local people. I am saying to local | :41:17. | :41:18. | |
government leaders committed up to you. -- it is up to you. I think we | :41:19. | :41:27. | |
should trust them to take it up and rise to the challenge. They need to | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
get on with it. First Minister Carwyn Jones said | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
this week that some councils are the -- incapable of improving education | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
in their every and that shows the need to restructure. | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
The Conservatives say the Welsh government are too focused on line | :41:47. | :41:48. | |
drawn up. What I do not hear from the Wales | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
Labour Party and the Welsh Labour government any idea about what they | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
want to ask local authorities to deliver and what they are prepared | :41:59. | :42:00. | |
to fund local authorities to deliver in the future. All they seem to be | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
fixated on our geographical changes they seem to think will be a | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
panacea. We know they are not, just a change geographically, because we | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
have been there before with the large County Council is that used to | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
exist. I think the First Minister has to show leadership on this issue | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
rather than dithering as he is at the moment, because his local | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
authority leaders have sat on him. Deciding how our councils will be | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
organised in future will take careful consideration, says the | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
Welsh government. Restructuring is on the horizon but it could yet be | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
some distance away. You saw the First Minister speaking | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
to our political editor there. That is part of our measuring devolution | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
week, when we have been taking stock of 15 years of the assembly. | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
Let's pick up on some of the points raised with this the Welsh | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
government's Deputy Minister for tackling poverty. The First Minister | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
was then blaming local councils and accusing them of failure to improve | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
education. Given that during those 15 years of devolution labour has | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
been in charge, is he passing the buck? | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
No, but there is a recognition our councils do not serve all of us as | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
well as they should do. No one suggests the current structural | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
public services is what we should have. The challenge is finding a way | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
forward. We are demonstrated better off now than we were 15 years ago in | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
health and the economy. It was common to have two-year waiting | :43:36. | :43:37. | |
lists in the health service and that is not the case now. Our perspective | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
is that we want to see even more change. If these doctors are wrong, | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
you have had 15 years to put them right. | :43:49. | :43:50. | |
It is difficult to escape the conclusion of your opponents that | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
you are looking for someone else to blame for things that you have | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
failed to put right yourself. No, there is a recognition that | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
where we are is not where we should be in terms of the structures of | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
public services. That is not uncommon, because you will not find | :44:07. | :44:09. | |
a serious voice in other parties that disagrees with that. It is | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
important to recognise that discussions between the Welsh | :44:15. | :44:16. | |
government continue with other parties and other stakeholders, | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
people who lead and manage public services, people who represent those | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
in public services as part of an ongoing conversation about where we | :44:26. | :44:27. | |
go. As the First Minister said, there will be an announcement on a | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
proposed route forward before the recess. This is a difficult and | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
challenging agenda... The First Minister says there are | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
six local education authorities in special measures, three of those are | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
in councils led by the Labour Party. As I say, 15 years - why only now | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
are we having this conversation about structures? | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
This conversation has been around for some time. | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
But you have been reluctant to grasp the nettle? | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
No, it is important to recognise there is not an easy fix. It has | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
been an issue for some time about what is the optimum organisation, | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
and any organisation takes up an opportunity that is there as well. I | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
think this is the right thing to do, the Welsh government has set out | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
a clear agenda for reforming and improving public services. It is | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
about response from all parts of public services. Not just about | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
local government. Crucially, it is about local | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
government leaders, Labour local council leaders signing up to your | :45:33. | :45:35. | |
policy. As the First Minister got a fight on his hands convincing them? | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
-- as the First Minister? We are engaging with leaders across | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
local services. Any proposals for a future map will be dealt with when | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
that statement is made before the end of summer recess, and it is | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
important to see it continue to be engaged with, to improve and reform | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
Welsh public services. Let's look at the health service as | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
part of our series. We have surveyed people and that revealed that fewer | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
than half of the people in Wales realise the Welsh government runs | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
the NHS. With all of the flag you get from the opposition about the | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
handling of the NHS, you must be cock-a-hoop if so few people realise | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
Labour is in charge. I would not say that. If you look | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
across this week of devolution, think about how narrow the margin | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
was to create the assembly. I think it is a remarkable achievement that | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
devolution is so well embedded, but that is not to save the last | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
significant challenges around public perception and engagement. I would | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
like to see a much greater proportion of Welsh adults 14 at the | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
next assembly election, having their say in who could and should run well | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
services and have a significant say on the economy in Wales. I recognise | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
there are political challenges for us as elected representatives and a | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
broader challenge for the media about how the public engage with | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
reporting on wedge politics and how they access different services. That | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
has changed hugely in the last 15 years. -- reporting on Welsh | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
politics. The different from that people get information now, the rise | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
of social media, we are significantly further away from | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
where we were 15 years ago. When you say you are under pressure | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
because of poor standard of K at one Health Board, the complaints of an | :47:33. | :47:41. | |
cloud, people don't like hospital reorganisation, how does labour | :47:42. | :47:44. | |
respond to that? -- the complaints of Clwyd. | :47:45. | :48:00. | |
We want to focus on how rapidly the improvement is and how even and | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
consistent the quality is. About the NHS, it is important to recognise | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
that are things we wanted to see improved, areas of the NHS where we | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
recognise things go wrong. But the overwhelming majority of the time, | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
people have a good service. The Welsh national survey, a significant | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
survey of the public, recognised that the greatest majority of people | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
are satisfied with NHS Wales. Do you think part of the problem is | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
that people are not interested, paying attention to devolved | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
politics, because effectively Wales is a 1-party state and local -- | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
Labour keep getting re-elected? Wales is not a 1-party state, we | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
have never had a clear majority in the assembly. It is rather odd to | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
say that because the facts point in a different direction. Labour is | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
currently the biggest party in Wales and I don't want a change in that | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
direction, but this is about public didn't public services and what we | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
do. There are big challenges for all of us engaging interest in how the | :49:05. | :49:06. | |
country is run. We have conducted another poll that | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
shows you will not win a majority in 2016 but you will still be the | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
biggest party, another Labour led government until 2021. Is that | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
really good for democracy? It is good that people make a choice | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
and I want people to vote Labour, obviously. Any poll conducted now | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
for an election in nearly two years time has to be treated with real | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
caution. I want to see more people engaged with politics and what the | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
assembly does for the people of Wales. | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
We're out of time, thank you for joining us. | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
We have had 15 years of devolution and so has Scotland, but the Scots | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
have been on a different journey to us here in Wales. | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
On the 18th of September, Scottish voters will be asked the question, | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
should Scotland be an independent country? Yes or no. As part of our | :49:55. | :50:01. | |
measuring devolution week we have canvassed Welsh voters aren't what | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
they think the impact of a yes vote could be. We asked, if Scotland | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
decides to become independent and leave the UK, which one of the | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
following statements do you most agree with? | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
61% said Scottish independence should not make any difference to | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
how we govern ourselves in Wales. 17% said Scottish independence | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
should lead to more powers for the Welsh assembly. 14% said Scottish | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
independence should lead to the Welsh people voting for | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
independence. I think a lot of people find it | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
difficult to make the leap of the imagination to understand what I yes | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
vote in Scotland would mean and what its potential implications for Wales | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
might be. At the moment the referendum still more than three | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
months away, it is still looking like a no vote is the more likely | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
outcome. If it did happen, it might well start to change the way people | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
in Wales think about things. Perhaps the poll also suggests that for many | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
people in Wales what is important is not so much of the UK as a whole but | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
the union between England and Wales, that is what matters to them in | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
terms of how Wales is governed. But what is the view from Scotland? | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
I have been speaking to two members of the Scottish Parliament, | :51:21. | :51:22. | |
conservative Liz Smith, who wants Scotland to stay in the union, and | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
the greens' Patrick Harvie, who is campaigning for an independent | :51:30. | :51:30. | |
Scotland. If you want the kind of | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
transformation I think is necessary for society, and Liz will disagree | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
with that on a point of principle at a conservative, but if you want the | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
kind of transformation Queen's and many others in the radical part of | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
politics think is necessary, I do not see that happening from the | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
Westminster culture. I don't see the opportunity to create a space for | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
change with a vote for the no camp. I guess vote could not only change | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
that in Scotland it could stimulate a change in the UK. Asking the | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
question, what is Westminster doing? What is it even for? | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
Some people say they are worried I yes vote may be a gamble, but there | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
are a lot of uncertainties with a no vote, as well, because it is by no | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
means clear what will happen to ten one if people reject independence. | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
There are far fewer uncertainties with the no vote than there would be | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
with a yes vote. The future is never absolutely clear, but that is not | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
the point. The point is whether there is greater security as part of | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
the UK is or as an independent country. That is the decision people | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
in Scotland has to make. We are absolutely clear, and I think the | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
vast majority of people in Scotland are clear, if you believe the | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
opinion polls, that we are better as the UK. We made that decision not | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
just because of what is better for Scotland but because of what is | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
better for the rest of the UK, including Wells country. | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
One of the certainties of the no vote seems to be that the Barnett | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
formula will stay. There are plenty of people in Wales that think they | :53:04. | :53:06. | |
are underfunded by the Barnett formula. | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
Well, the Barnett formula is crucial to protecting those areas of the UK | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
that have not had the same development of economic growth. | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
There will always be a need for some form of Barnett formula to help | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
those areas that cannot survive in the way that richer parts of the UK | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
can do. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
I don't know what your feelings on that are, Patrick Harvey. | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
Is reform of the Barnett formula likely to happen if there is a no | :53:39. | :53:40. | |
vote? I can barely help laughing when I | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
hear the argument, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Yes it is! | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
I thought you did well out of the Barnett formula in Scotland. | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
I'm not just talking about the Barnett formula but the | :53:53. | :53:54. | |
constitutional settlement we have at the moment. The UK is failing to | :53:55. | :54:02. | |
achieve a more equal, more sustainable society. We need | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
investment, not austerity, if we are going to see the kind of positive | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
future all of our nations and regions need. Liz Smith. | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
The Conservatives have offered full income tax powers to the Scottish | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
Parliament if there is a no vote. You not worried about tax | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
competition between the different parts of the UK, that Scotland could | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
become a tax haven damaging the economy of the rest of Britain? | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
What we have been very worried about is that this Parliament, if it does | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
not have the accountability and responsibility for a sufficient | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
level of raising its own money and spending it, this decision on tax is | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
based on good quality conservative values about ensuring you have | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
responsibility and accountability. When Patrick Harvey, whose | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
opposition I admire in many ways, we are not in any way politically close | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
but I admire the work that he does, but he is completely wrong when he | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
talks about a Scandinavian model because it is a very high tax model. | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
I don't think Scotland is in anyway wanting to have that and I don't the | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
rest of the UK -- the rest of the UK wants a high tax platform because | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
that would be a disaster. It has not proved a disaster in | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
those Scandinavian countries, either for business or the social and | :55:17. | :55:24. | |
environmental issues they share. Most are concerned with skills, | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
infrastructure, the decency of a society that allows them to prosper | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
rather than a wee bit less on the marginal tax rates. | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
But if you are wanting to deliver a whole lot of policies on social | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
equality, you have, by definition, to find far more money than is | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
currently available if you were to pursue a yes vote. That is not going | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
to happen. So we may have to close some of the | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
tax loopholes that you guys allowed to exist at a UK level. Billions of | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
pounds siphoned off to tax havens. You will have to put up tax or cut | :55:56. | :55:58. | |
expenditure. I can see you both have a lot to | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
debate and just a little under 100 days to do it, but we are out of | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
time. Thank you for joining me. In north Pembrokeshire, bait is | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
being laid for badgers, they are being aged and injected with TB | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
vaccine to start than spreading the disease to cattle. | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
Remember, the previous Wells government policy was to cull them | :56:20. | :56:28. | |
but is vaccination working? -- the previous Welsh government | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
policy. This has been described as the | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
Olympics of TB control. In March 2012, you said that, we do | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
not know whether vaccination will provide us with a way to control TB | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
in wildlife, but we will have to try it. Two years later, do you know now | :56:47. | :56:58. | |
whether it is working? It is more comforted than just | :56:59. | :57:01. | |
looking at the wildlife element but we do know that badgers are infected | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
by each other in parts of Wales. The programme is for five years, we | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
have completed two, and we are into your three, saw the results are by | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
no means available yet. -- yeah three. | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
We will have to wait five years and the completion of the programme to | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
know whether it has worked or not? That element of the programme, yes, | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
but other measures, regarding movement restrictions, etc, are also | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
in place, not just the Northamptonshire but across Wales. | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
Are you slaughtering fewer cattle in North temperature? | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
There has been a reduction in TB across the whole of Wales in the | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
last 12 months compared to the previous 12. The reduction in | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
temperature is in line with the national reduction. Now we have no | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
active -- evidence the vaccination programme in badgers is delivering | :57:55. | :57:56. | |
an additional benefit and we would not to see any evidence -- not | :57:57. | :58:02. | |
expect to see any evidence at this stage. | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
It will cost around four and a half million pounds over five years. | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
It seems a lot of money for the government to spend on something | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
when you don't know whether it is working. | :58:16. | :58:17. | |
Is the Welsh government spending ?4.5 million on anything else it | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
does not know it works? The TV programme cost ?20 million | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
last year. The bulk of that was on cattle testing, bio-security | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
measures and compensation for farmers, and a small sub -- bore | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
portion of that was spent on vaccinating badgers. | :58:36. | :58:37. | |
This conference is held every five or six years, the last one was in | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
New Zealand, and in New Zealand they are culling wildlife, possums, not | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
badgers. When representatives of New Zealand come to Cardiff this week | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
will you tell them they have got it wrong and they should be | :58:52. | :58:53. | |
vaccinating? Certainly not, they have a different | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
challenge with possums, that are causing damage also to crops and | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
trees. And they are not native to New Zealand, so it is a different | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
approach and they are killing possums. They are vaccinating them | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
in some areas and also, importantly, testing cattle and removing infected | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
cattle. You always have to have the balance between all the different | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
elements of the programme, making sure you are tackling all sources of | :59:20. | :59:21. | |
infection. So when supporters of the cult | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
pointed to New Zealand and ask why we cannot do that in Wales, what is | :59:28. | :59:30. | |
the answer? We have to stop wildlife and cattle | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
infecting each other. They have a problem in North America with white | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
tailed deer causing an infection and cattle. In Spain it is wild boar, | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
New Zealand at its possums, and here in Wales we have problems with | :59:45. | :59:51. | |
badgers. There are different approaches to stopping them | :59:52. | :59:53. | |
infecting each other. Have we ruled out the idea of a | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
coal? Will it ever be revisited in Wales? | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
We have to strike the balance between protecting the cattle and | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
making sure the badgers are not infecting the couple, one approach | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
is vaccination and we're looking at that at the moment. | :00:13. | :00:14. | |
Is this conference a big deal for you and Wales? | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
It is a massive deal, I am surprised -- so proud the conference is being | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
held there. We will showcase the work we are doing on TB eradication | :00:24. | :00:35. | |
unit Wales. -- here in Wales. This is a long-term programme, it can | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
take a long time, 22 years in Australia to eradicate TB. We have | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
to take on board all developments as we proceed because what we want is a | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
TB free whales. -- Wales. Thank you for joining us. That is it | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
for this week, I hope you can join us next week when we will be back on | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
BBC1 Wales at the same time. All of the latest politics on Wales | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
come on BBC1 Wales, There are big changes afoot | :01:04. | :01:12. | |
in the EU following last month's European elections, | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
not least who'll get the top job But | :01:16. | :01:17. | |
behind the scenes the parties have also been jockeying for position as | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
they try to form the big groups that And UKIP seems to have been | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
struggling to keep its influence Here's Adam to explain | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
how it all works. If you want your party to be a big | :01:30. | :01:41. | |
cheese in the European Parliament, you need to form a political group. | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
By doing this, the party gets more money, more positions on committees | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
and even more speaking rights in the chamber. But the parliament's rules | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
are strict. And to form a group you need a group of 25 MPs from at least | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
seven different countries. For UKIP, the number of MEPs will not be a | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
problem because they already have 24 of their own, but the different | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
nationalities are more of a challenge. Nigel Farage was not | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
helped by the Tories stealing -- stealing his former Danish and | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
Finnish allies, and the pen pinching his Italian charms. Nigel needs a | :02:19. | :02:26. | |
new charm and fast. He has already signed up Lithuania's order and | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
justice, a free citizen from Prague, and the Dutchman from the reformed | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
political party. The big signing was the 17 members of the Italian Beppe | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
Griego's 5-star movement, but it leaves UKIP short of two more | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
international powers, and with the clock ticking, it looks like his | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
hopes resting on the Swedish Democrats and the Polish new right | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
Congress. They both make their decisions next week. | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
What is the latest? UKIP have enough MEPs with their pals, but they need | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
seven countries, as I understand it. They are not there yet. They are | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
wrapped five countries and need another two. UKIP are being quite | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
buoyant and say they will be meeting MEPs from five countries next week | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
and are pretty confident they will get those countries, but as Adam was | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
saying, the problem UKIP have had is that the Conservatives have nicked | :03:25. | :03:33. | |
two of the parties. That is why they have been struggling, but they say | :03:34. | :03:35. | |
they are confident they will do it. Meanwhile, the Tories new best | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
friends are the German Eurosceptic party, which has put Mrs Merkel's | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
nose out of joint, but we don't quite know whether she really cares | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
or not. I think Cameron has played his hand badly since he committed to | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
pulling out of the EBP. And he should be in there with Angela | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
Merkel and if he needs to make a major renegotiation, he needs to | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
have the Germans onside. Instead there is a breakaway party and its | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
like supporting UKIP. His party are supporting her worst enemy. It | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
certainly causing him a lot of problems, and undermines his | :04:23. | :04:24. | |
negotiating position, but isn't there an honesty that the | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
centre-right group is explicitly Federalist, and the Tories are | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
anything but, so they came out, and Labour are in the Socialist group, | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
which is explicitly Federalist, and they are not Federalist either. If | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
you want support and influence in Europe, you have to trade, and he | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
hasn't done this well. The whole business with who will be the next | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
president, he needs Angela Merkel's support. Without that, it won't | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
happen. He should have been trading behind-the-scenes, but he has | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
exposed himself in public, and if he doesn't win it looks uncertain, and | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
he will be in a position where he has to go back to his own party and | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
say they are not getting anywhere. That is dangerous and takes us | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
closer to the Exeter, which I don't think would want. The danger for Mr | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
Cameron is if it is the president of the commission, he will save you | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
cannot stop a federalist becoming head of the European commission, | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
what chance do you have of repatriating lots of powers back to | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
London. There are lots of Tory MPs dying to make the argument. My hunch | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
is that he won't make it. There are too many countries opposed to his | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
presidency and even the country notionally in favour of it, Germany, | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
is failing in youth -- enthusiasm. Angela Merkel cannot be seen to give | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
in to the Brits this. Her own side once it as well, though some reason | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
the German media says it. When she tried to reach out and said to look | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
at the other candidates, she got such abuse on the right wing press | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
from her own country and party she had to retreat. Janan is right that | :06:14. | :06:23. | |
there is opposition to Juncker, but as long as Cameron turns it into an | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
argument about Britain and Europe, he will strengthen the hand of | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
Juncker. Angela Merkel thinks Juncker is inappropriate. She did | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
not like the process, which was a power grab by the European | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
Parliament, but when David Cameron went to the council and said that if | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
I don't get my way, we could leave the EU, that led to the backlash, | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
most significantly from the SPD in Germany. As Tony Blair says, if only | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
David Cameron had made the argument that Juncker is bad for Europe, then | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
he would have found his natural allies would have felt more | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
comfortable following behind. Enough Europe. I want to show you a | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
picture. See what you think of this. When I saw that picture, I thought | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
it was so ludicrous that it had to have been photo shop. Discuss. He is | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
holding it with a certain disdain, looking a bit hangdog. A disastrous | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
picture for Ed Miliband. His strength is authenticity, sincerity | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
and cleverness. And he blows all of that. He was the one who took on | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
Murdoch, very bravely and dangerously, and one, really. Now | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
there he is supporting Murdoch's son. It's a big mistake, not just in | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
Liverpool, where obviously they are particularly incensed. And then he | :07:48. | :07:55. | |
apologises. Sort of apologises and understands why Liverpool feels | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
upset. But it is a fundamental error and I hope he learns from this, that | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
he must absolutely stay true to himself. That's all he's got going | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
for him. Who do we blame? His advisers or himself? In the end, | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
himself. Nobody forced him to do it. On this one, he called it wrong. | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
It's a sign of the rather the bridal state of the Labour Party is that | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
his candidates were vocal in attacking him doing this. It's a | :08:31. | :08:39. | |
sign of how readable Ed Miliband is at Parliamentary level. I don't | :08:40. | :08:41. | |
think you should have apologised. The mistake he made was associating | :08:42. | :08:50. | |
himself with that newspaper. The mistake was the prior three years | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
when he went too far as portraying the Murdoch empire beyond the pale. | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
He made a case against phone hacking and offences in that regard without | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
going as far as he did with the rhetoric. To do that, and then pose | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
with the Sun newspaper, the juxtaposition is what did for him, | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
not the mere fact of posing with it. Maybe he did not know what he was | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
doing because we were told he doesn't read the British | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
newspapers. It was football, and he has posed with the Sun newspaper | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
before. Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg posed as well. But with the Sun | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
newspaper and football, you tread carefully. That was the mistake. You | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
get the impression from the picture that he looks so uncomfortable that | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
you wonder whether there was a full process of consultation that went on | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
within his media operation, within his political operation. Was he | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
fully aware of what would happen question what he looks so incredibly | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, leaders have to take | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
responsibility. It is cultural as well. That picture says, I am down | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
there with the football blokes and you think, you are not. That is not | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
what people will vote for. Be yourself and don't pretend to be | :10:04. | :10:05. | |
something else because it never works. But the polls suggest that | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
the British voters don't yet see Ed Miliband as prime ministerial. The | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
worst thing you can then do is get involved in stunts that are more | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
likely to reinforce that idea than counter it. There was a precedent | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
for it in the last parliament which was Gordon Brown's attempts to feign | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
a populist touch. He did it by telling the contents of his iPod. | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
The Arctic monkeys. It always jarred because he was trying too hard. Not | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
uniquely guilty of, Ed Miliband, all the other leaders have done it. At | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
the moment he more vulnerable. Yes, and he is less popular than his | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
party. Labour has quite a popular brand, in a resilient way, in a way | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
they don't with the Tories, yet their leader is a personal problem. | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
The pressure is on him to do stunts like this. Will there be a shadow | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
cabinet reshuffle? Yes, we have to get the cabinet reshuffle out of the | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
way first, and that might come next week, maybe by the time of the | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
summer recess, but the first thing that the prime Minister do is work | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
out who is the UK candidate for the European Commissioner. Is it not the | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
case probably that Ed Balls is becoming semi-detached from the Ed | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
Miliband project? I don't think entirely. Nothing gets agreed | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
without both of the end are green. Ed Balls is controversial. He has | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
great pluses and minuses and is a big figure. Labour doesn't have that | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
many big figures. It's quite hard to think who would be a heavy hitter as | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
a possible Chancellor. He is a convincing chancellor to the future, | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
Love him. He has the heft -- love him or hate him. Any possibility Ed | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
Balls could be moved as shadow chancellor? The timing is convenient | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
because the Scottish referendum ends in the autumn and Alistair Darling | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
becomes a free man, win or lose. I don't think Ed Balls will be removed | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
because moving him would be an admission that everything the Labour | :12:05. | :12:06. | |
Party said about the economy to the preceding four years has been a | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
mistake. And you can't do that nine months before a general election. | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
You invite ridicule. But relations between Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
not great at the moment. The Ed Miliband team are very, very | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
suspicious of this new love in between Ed Balls and Peter | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
Mandelson. Mandelson likes to say that he spotted the Ed Balls talents | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
in the original place and appointed him to the Gordon Brown team after | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
the disaster of 1992. But things obviously went awry, and now Ed | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
Balls and Peter Mandelson Avenue Rappaport, and that is with enormous | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
suspicion -- they have a new Rappaport. With good reason because | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
it's about policy. It's about the attitude towards business. Should | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
they be out there saying they will get the tax dodgers, Starbucks, | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
Vodafone, are we going to take on business in a big way? In a way that | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
Ed Miliband has quite bravely said. On the other hand, Ed Balls and | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
Peter Mandelson are saying, hang on, we only won in 1997 by being | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
business friendly. Sorry to rush you. We are running out of time. | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
The Daily Politics will be back every day this week at midday, | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
and I'll be back here next Sunday when I'll be joined | :13:18. | :13:19. | |
by the shadow work and pensions secretary Rachel Reeves.Remember | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:23. | :13:53. | |
Magnificent. The power base of medieval England. | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
Charles' ceiling was a piece of breathtaking arrogance. | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
You get a sense of the people who made the palaces. | :14:06. | :14:13. | |
as I unlock the secrets of Britain's great palaces. | :14:14. | :14:17. |