Browse content similar to 22/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Could British war planes be in action over the skies of Syria | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
Later this week, David Cameron set out his strategy | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
George Osborne says all Whitehall departments have agreed to cuts | :00:47. | :00:55. | |
as he gears up for his Spending Review this week. | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
We speak to one of his Conservative predecessors. | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
And it's been a pretty rough week for the Labour Party. | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
Later in the programme: can Jeremy Corbyn steady the ship? | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
Leanne Wood says she's prepared to listen to David Cameron as he makes | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
the case for British air strikes against so-called Islamic State. | :01:17. | :01:29. | |
And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
They pay me to say it, so I am happy to do so. | :01:34. | :01:43. | |
Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh - who'll be tweeting | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
Following the terror attacks in Paris, President Hollande has | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
embarked on putting together a Grand Coalition to defeat Islamic State in | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
Syria, involving the UN, America, Russia and, naturally, Britain. | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
The British Government is keen to join but faces the little problem | :01:55. | :01:56. | |
Later this week, David Cameron will present | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
his Syrian strategy to Parliament in the hope it will command a majority | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
Here's what the Chancellor had to say on the Marr Show earlier, | :02:04. | :02:10. | |
This week, we are going to step up our diplomatic efforts, | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
our humanitarian efforts, and make the case for a greater | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
The Prime Minister will seek support across Parliament | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
for strikes against that terrorist organisation in Syria and frankly | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Britain has never been a country which stands on the sidelines | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
Nick, am I right in thinking that you can see now the makings, the | :02:31. | :02:45. | |
putting together, of majority for the Prime Minister's desire to bomb | :02:46. | :02:56. | |
in Syria? They are being reasonably cautious that they are pretty | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
confident that, even now, they have the numbers. Three big things have | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
happened since three weeks ago when the Prime Minister was indicating he | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
was unlikely to have a vote. Paris has changed everything. Jeremy | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
Corbyn has had a challenging week. Thirdly, the Prime Minister has said | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
he will set out the comprehensive strategy. Labour MPs who said they | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
would like to support him have said they could not do it unless there | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
was a comprehensive strategy. It is also turning Tory MPs can lead by | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
Crispin Blunt, who would have voted against. He is now indicating he | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
possibly will vote for this. DUP, Nigel Dodds, who has eight MPs at | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
Westminster, he is indicating that if the Prime Minister set this | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
out... It looks like the numbers are there. We did here this morning that | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
the BBC reported the DUP with back the Prime Minister if what he had to | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
say was credible. We are told the Tory rebels are about 15 and Labour | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
rebels thinking of voting with the Government or abstaining could be as | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
high as 50. What is your intelligence? A huge number, from | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
very senior people as well. Actually the number of senior people leaving, | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
exiting the Shadow Cabinet, I think a challenging week would be an | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
understatement. It is at a whole new level. There is only so much time | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
you can buy with free votes. Jeremy Corbyn opposes the party policy. | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
This time he would set his own policy but no 1 would come with him. | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
How many times can you play that trick before people say this is a | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
loose conglomeration of individuals and not a party? Do you think he | :04:41. | :04:49. | |
would go for a free vote? Maria Eagle has just published a paper | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
which is very hawkish. Hilary Benn has been making noises about this. | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
Who is there to support, apart from John McDonnell, in this position? He | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
is very isolated on this. The problem for the Prime Minister is, | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
in a sense he gets what he wishes for. We begin joining others in | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
bombing and things do not really changed in Syria. I do not think the | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
House of Commons is the primary obstacle facing David Cameron. I | :05:20. | :05:21. | |
think he will get the votes could not see much because of the case he | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
will make later this week but because what happened in the last | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
week. They focused on all necessary measures and use combat as a | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
metaphor, but a deliberate metaphor, I think. The biggest problem is not | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
the Parliamentary vote for David Cameron, it is the diplomatic | :05:42. | :05:43. | |
struggle to agree with Russia exactly how we go about this. Russia | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
are happy to bomb in Syria against Isil but they are not happy to do so | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
in a way which, in their words, destroys the statehood of Syria | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
which alludes to their traditional support for the existing Syrian | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
state and basher al-Assad. The politics is far more challenging | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
than the technical act of getting the votes together. That is the | :06:08. | :06:17. | |
problem. What is the endgame? Transition can sometimes take a long | :06:18. | :06:18. | |
time. A very long transition. On Wednesday, Chancellor Osborne | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
will announce the Government's Over the next five years, they | :06:25. | :06:26. | |
will total ?4 trillion. But even to stay within that barely | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
imaginable sum of money, Mr Osborne will have to continue to cut | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
departmental and welfare spending. Hence the mantra you will hear this | :06:34. | :06:35. | |
week of "a country that lives within its means" - in other words more of | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
a squeeze on many public services. The Chancellor wants government | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
departments to find a further ?20 billion worth | :06:46. | :06:46. | |
of savings between now and 2020. So, where could that money come | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
from? Welcome to our virtual Treasury | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
courtyard. Now, they don't have one of these | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
in the real courtyard but it represents everything the | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
Government is due to spend this year I'm going to start by highlighting | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
a few of the most significant parts You can see the ?217 billion | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
which goes on Social Security. That includes everything | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
from jobseeker's allowance to There is the ?35 billion | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
the UK is due to spend this year And George Osborne says that's | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
a figure he is determined to bring Now, | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
the focus of his statement is the money which goes on administering | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
and delivering public services. Here it is, | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
and you can see it's just under half We are going to delve into | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
the budgets of a few of the most It is the NHS which accounts | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
for the biggest chunk The Chancellor is not going to find | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
any of his savings here because he has promised to increase | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
NHS funding in England by ?10 The Government's also promised | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
a real terms increase That is part of its commitment to | :08:13. | :08:21. | |
meeting the Nato target of spending The Government is also committed to | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
spending 0.7% of GDP on overseas aid - meaning that | :08:28. | :08:36. | |
budget is also protected. So, the Chancellor is not going to | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
find any of his ?20 billion of savings he says he needs to make | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
from either health, defence or aid. So, where could it come from | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
instead? What about | :08:52. | :08:52. | |
from the education budget? That is a big part of what the | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
state spends on public services. Here | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
the Conservatives have promised a That means savings | :09:01. | :09:01. | |
from here will be limited. Although the rest of the budget does | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
not have any guaranteed protection. Here is the money that goes | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
to English local authorities. This was one of the first | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
departments to agree to big savings Let's look at the Home Office whose | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
budget this year is ?10.6 billion. The single biggest thing | :09:21. | :09:29. | |
Theresa May's department spends money on is the grant it gives to | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
police forces in England and Wales. Although they also get some of their | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
money from other sources including And some of the other departments | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
which are going to have to find big savings over the next four years are | :09:41. | :09:47. | |
the departments of business, But let's go back to that big part | :09:48. | :09:57. | |
of government spending I mentioned Because | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
of course that is where a lot of the focus has been in the weeks | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
and months before this statement. Again here there is plenty | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
the Chancellor will not touch. The state pension is | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
a massive part of the budget. But the Government has | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
a long-standing promise not to cut it along with various pensioner | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
benefits. The other areas of big spending | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
the Government has had to look to are housing benefit, disability | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
benefits and incapacity benefits. And, you can see that big sum | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
of money, ?30 billion, which is due to be spent | :10:36. | :10:37. | |
on personal tax credits this year. An area where the Chancellor has | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
found that making savings can So, the Chancellor faces some tricky | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
trade-offs on Wednesday when he unveils his spending plans | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
for the next five years. Paul Johnson from the Institute | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
of Fiscal Studies has some ideas. Paul, welcome back to the programme. | :10:53. | :11:07. | |
Let's start with this tricky question of tax credits. What is the | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
Chancellor, in your view, most likely to do? He has two big | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
choices. He can decide not to make any cuts, or much in the wake of | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
cuts, next April. That is what all of the bus has been about, the cuts | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
that will come in next April. -- the fuss. Most of the savings will come | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
in the long run full he has also announced the new universal credit | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
system will be much less generous than he was originally intending. In | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
five or ten years time, even if he does not put the cut scene he was | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
planning in April, he will still make much the same level of saving | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
for them if he does that, his spending in 2016 on welfare benefits | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
will be ?4 billion or so higher than he was planning and he will bust his | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
own welfare cap, the cap he has legislated, which assumes he will | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
make those savings. That is one option. The other option is he will | :12:06. | :12:13. | |
try to find some savings in 2016, maybe reduce the cuts to tax credits | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
that have some savings and look elsewhere in the welfare budget to | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
make up the rest of the savings. Whatever he does on tax credits will | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
cost money, certainly in the short run. His deficit reduction plan for | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
the ship is already in some trouble. He faces huge pressures to | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
spend more on everything from health to Social Security. -- for this year | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
is already in some trouble. The first thing to say about that | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
surplus in 2020, there is a huge amount of uncertainty about where we | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
will be. Forecasting these things by view ad is an extreme you tricky and | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
uncertain business. Ignoring that, assuming the whole world moves as he | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
expects over the next few years, he will require cuts of about 25% in | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
those unprotected apartments we have just heard about the Home Office, | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
local government, and so on, on top of the cuts that happened during the | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
last parliament will Boyd -- involve really sharp cuts between 2010 and | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
2020. They are big changes to the way which we will deliver local | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
Gottman and the way we will be delivering police force, the way we | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
will be delivering further education and so on. Those areas of government | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
will change fundamentally over the decade. Let me get these right. When | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
you add up all the cuts, those made in those about to happen, between | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
20102020, major departments, the unprotected ones, will face cuts of | :13:44. | :13:55. | |
up to 40%. -- between 2010-2020. Is it doable? That is a good question. | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
It may not turn up that badly if the economy does better than expected | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
all the Chancellor finds some additional savings in Social | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
Security, or he does not aim for the 10 million surplus and goes for a 1 | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
billion surplus. -- 10 billion. If he does go down that route, it will | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
be more difficult than it was in the last parliament. If there were easy | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
cuts to have made, they will have been made already. Do not forget one | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
of the biggest bits of public spending goes on the pay of people | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
who work in the public sector, the pay of nurses, teachers and civil | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
servants and so on. That was quite easy to hold down over the last | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
parliament. Pay in the private sector was doing so badly. We | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
expect, almost economists now expect that pay in the private sector will | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
rise well to be strongly. In that world it will be quite hard to hold | :14:52. | :14:59. | |
down pay right across the public sector, as he said he would do back | :15:00. | :15:00. | |
in the July budget. Joining me now Nigel Lawson, | :15:01. | :15:02. | |
Margaret Thatcher's longest serving Welcome back to the programme. Thank | :15:03. | :15:12. | |
you, I enjoyed your rant the other day. It was not a rant, it was a | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
carefully scripted commentary but thank you for your remarks. Let me | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
take an overall review on the Chancellor 's position. The | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
borrowing figures for October were pretty bad, looks like he will | :15:27. | :15:34. | |
overshoot this year 's borrowing. Is the austerity programme in trouble | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
again? It is difficult, he has a difficult time because of these | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
ridiculous protected programmes which should not exist. Aid is going | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
up again and again, the Nobel Prize for economics has been given to an | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
English economist, he is Scottish in fact, and one of his principal | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
findings, he is a great expert on global poverty and one of his major | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
findings is that overseas aid although well-intentioned does more | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
harm than good. Yet that is going up and up. He has got a tough time but | :16:11. | :16:18. | |
it can be done. When I was Chancellor I was able to balance the | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
budget and get it into surplus and he has to do it as well. He has huge | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
pressure on security, the police, the NHS, we were just talking about | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
mitigating cuts on the tax credit side, these are all hard to resist | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
in the current atmosphere. It is going to be very difficult and | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
although I suspect it will mainly be cuts in savings in public spending I | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
think he will have to do more on the tax side than he would have liked. | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
There is some logic in that, for example it looks as if, Paul Johnson | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
was seeing, or maybe it was you, but he is likely to some extent to defer | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
the cutting of the tax credits. It's quite right to take a knife to the | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
tax credits, they have grown far too much and are undesirable in their | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
present size. But nonetheless what he did propose originally was a bit | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
too much for some and therefore he has got to delay it a bit. But when | :17:19. | :17:25. | |
he presented, he presented a package including raising income tax | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
threshold. He could, as part of the package delay that a little bit and | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
help on the tax side. The government has always said it will do all the | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
heavy lifting, the heavy lifting will be done by cuts in spending | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
rather than increasing taxes. Will he now have to look at increasing | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
some taxes are hats at a time of low oil prices on fuel duty? I think | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
that's a good suggestion and it is sensible to do that. But defer a | :17:54. | :18:01. | |
reduction which he might find less... Yes but might he have to | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
look at some tax rises? I think you should look at the fuel duty, yes. | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
President Hollande has said that national security comes before | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
deficit reduction, he has sidelined the fiscal pact he has with the rest | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
of Europe. He plans a huge increase in security spending, 17,000 more | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
police and border guards and other security personnel. Will the British | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
be looking at George Osborne to do something similar next week? | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
President Hollande has never been keen on deficit-reduction in the | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
first place. It's not unconnected with the fact as well that the | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
French economy, and I live in France, the French economy is in a | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
bad way. We are doing much better. Security is important but the | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
government has said very clearly that it is going to be keeping to | :18:56. | :19:03. | |
the 2% target, 2% of GDP on defence spending, something France is not | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
doing even though it has considerable defence expenditure. | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
The leaked letter from one of the most senior police officers to the | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
Home Secretary says cuts to police budgets could reduce very | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
significantly the ability to respond to a Paris style attack. The | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
Chancellor is going to be under pressure to make security more | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
important than deficit-reduction. Certainly for the foreseeable | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
future. Security is essential. It is vital. But I think the police are | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
complaining a little bit too much. Look how much the police are | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
spending now on chasing up often unsubstantiated accusations of | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
historic sex abuse. That has got nothing to do with security. Those | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
resources should be put where they need is. I think also what the | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
police need is not just money, and the security services to, they need | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
intelligence. I think it would make a lot of sense and what I would like | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
to see the government doing is to expedite the passage of the | :20:07. | :20:14. | |
investigatory Powers Bill which is long overdue and badly needed. In | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
this climate you accept that cutting the top rate of income tax back to | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
the 40% that you originally introduced, that that is politically | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
impossible for the foreseeable future? It depends how far you can | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
proceed. I would hope that during this parliament it can be done. It | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
is politically difficult but there is no budgetary reason against it. | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
When I cut it it increased revenue and it would do so again. The cap | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
which George Osborne has already done in the last parliament from 50, | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
245 even though the Liberal Democrats he did it and it raised | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
money and didn't cost anything. To be cutting police numbers, to be | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
struggling to find money for the NHS, to be doing something for the | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
working poor on tax credits, making life a bit more difficult for them | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
but then to be cutting the top rate of the highest earners? That is why | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
I don't think you can be doing it now that you were asking about the | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
foreseeable future. You still think he can do it before the end of this | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
Parliament? Yes I do. On Europe, how confident are you feeling about | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
winning the referendum to withdraw? Nobody can call a referendum. It is | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
difficult enough sometimes to call a general election and referendums are | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
even harder to call. Logically I don't think he will do it. Logically | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
David Cameron ought to be campaigning to leave because what he | :21:50. | :21:56. | |
said at the beginning was he was dissatisfied with the European Union | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
as it is. He wanted a fundamental reform to be enshrined in treaty | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
change. Then stay in a reformed European Union. There is not going | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
to be a reformed European Union. There will not be a treaty change. | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
What the referendum is going to be about is if you want to stay in or | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
leave and an reform European Union. So logically he ought to say leave | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
and that is where I am because if it is an reform we don't want to stay | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
in it. So even if the primer Mr was to get all his renegotiation demands | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
such as we know them it would not change your mind on coming out? No, | :22:36. | :22:50. | |
if he demanded a lot more and got it, major reforms which I have | :22:51. | :22:52. | |
written about but I don't have time to go into no, I think it would be | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
welcomed right across the European Union. This is not the view of the | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
majority of the people, but we cannot tell the rest of the | :23:05. | :23:06. | |
countries what to do, all we can say is what we are going to do. As we | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
get closer to the referendum date, we don't know when it will be but | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
when we get closer to it being announced, in terms of who seem to | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
be the major figure who leads your side of the referendum campaign, if | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
not Nigel Farage, who? Certainly not Nigel Farage. I think the people who | :23:26. | :23:37. | |
want to stay in have put up a businessman. Stewart draws. Not a | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
particularly captivating businessman. Who will be the | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
equivalent? I have no idea, but we will wait and see but it certainly | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
won't be Nigel Farage. He will be an important player. Why not? Because | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
Ukip has just one member of Parliament. We are a parliamentary | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
democracy and the majority party is the Conservative Party. Nigel | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
Lawson, thank you for being with us. Thank you. | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
It's been a pretty torrid week for the Labour Party. | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
Splits on everything from how to deal with terrorists to | :24:16. | :24:17. | |
Trident, to Ken Livingstone, culminating in a bizarre row | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
about whether or not the Shadow Chancellor wants to scrap MI5. | :24:21. | :24:22. | |
John McDonnell insists Britain's spies are safe in his hands, | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
though he did admit that his party has had a "rough week". | :24:26. | :24:27. | |
It is the week that Jeremy Corbyn and his party grappled with issues | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
In the wake of the Paris attacks, the Labour leader said he was not | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
happy with the idea of police officers shooting to kill | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
on British streets, which led to a very stormy party meeting, | :24:45. | :24:46. | |
So, you tweeted, "please tell me it is not true that Jeremy just said, | :24:47. | :24:56. | |
faced with Kalashnikov-wielding genocidal fascists, our security | :24:57. | :24:58. | |
I, along with millions of Labour voters | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
in this country, were very concerned by the interview that Jeremy gave. | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
Thankfully, Hilary Benn, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, clarified matters | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
very quickly and restated support for the use of lethal force and, | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
support of the use of drone strikes, which Jeremy had also questioned. | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
Jeremy himself, thankfully, a few hours later, | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
also issued a clarification, and I'm very pleased he did. | :25:26. | :25:27. | |
A lot of Labour voters will have been very relieved. | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
Then came a row about the former Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
being appointed to co-chair the party's review of Trident, and | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
the emergence of a letter from a campaign group calling for MI5 to be | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
disbanded that the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, seems | :25:45. | :25:46. | |
And we found something else interesting that John | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
This Parliamentary motion he proposed last October saying | :25:51. | :25:57. | |
taxpayers who do not like war should be able to opt out | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
The military is where the next battle may lie. | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
If and when the Government brings forward | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
plans to extend British air strikes from Iraq to Syria, some Labour MPs | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
want to vote in favour, while their leader is a committed | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
One Labour figure is speaking out for the first time. | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
I think it would be wrong to suggest there is a settled view on the | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
People will bring their own prejudices, | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
which are from being instinctively for intervention, to having long | :26:32. | :26:33. | |
The only thing I would ask of all of my colleagues is we look | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
at this with an open mind, examining the facts rather than | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
seeing how it matches our prejudices, and then reach a | :26:46. | :26:53. | |
decision which is in the national interest. | :26:54. | :26:55. | |
Do you think Jeremy Corbyn is able to do that? | :26:56. | :26:57. | |
He has some very strongly held views that we should not get involved | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
He may have to come to a point where he says, | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
now that I'm not just a backbencher, I am actually the Leader of | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
There is an element of national interest and that is | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
For the young Corbynites at this event about Labour's economic policy | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
The only reason we look bad to the general public, the only reason | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
we do not look very strong at the moment, is that we are not united. | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
If you have criticisms with the Leader, you should take it up | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
It is not fitting to do these things in the press, criticising people. | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
Do you think there is a plot against Jeremy Corbyn? | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
If they are planning a plot they should probably think | :27:39. | :27:46. | |
about the fact Jeremy was elected with 59.5% of the vote, I think. | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
And we saw, from the beginning, he went | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
from the least likely person to get in to the front runner, to the | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
If people are plotting to get rid of him, they really should listen | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
The party should be based around what the party members want. | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
Unfortunately for them there will be another flash point | :28:08. | :28:09. | |
On Tuesday there will be a vote in the House of Commons on Trident, | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
Labour MPs have been instructed not to turn up. | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
We understand a bunch of them, including some big names, | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
are thinking about defying their Leader and voting | :28:23. | :28:24. | |
It would be a largely symbolic vote but another visible symbol of | :28:25. | :28:32. | |
I'm joined now from Doncaster by the Labour MP Caroline Flint - | :28:33. | :28:40. | |
she was a minister under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
Good morning, thank you for coming back on the programme. Let me begin | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
with a general question, it's been a pretty terrible week for Labour, | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
what is the mood now on the Labour backbenches among your colleagues? | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
It's not been a great week for Labour, that is correct. I think | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
part of the reason for that is we haven't looked certain and confident | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
on some of the big issues the nation are worried about. What we have to | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
have from the leadership, not just Jeremy but those around him, is | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
certainty about what we think about what is happening in terms of the | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
terrorist acts in Paris. But more widely about what the certainty we | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
can offer as Labour Party about how we will support our national | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
security. I think understandably there have been concerns, I don't | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
think just on the backbenches of the Labour Party, but also amongst the | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
Shadow Cabinet, that is clear, but also more widely amongst the party | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
membership as well. The news has been dominated for a week now by | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
these terrible events in Paris. Has Jeremy Corbyn mishandled the Labour | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
response to these events? I think what is really important is that | :30:04. | :30:11. | |
with leadership does come a massive responsibility to speak clearly and | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
with certainty about a whole number of issues. But probably more than | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
any other subject area if you like national security demands that. | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
Because at a time where we are all reeling from what has happened in | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
Paris, and there is no doubt Jeremy Corbyn takes very, very seriously | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
what has happened there and its implication for the security of | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
British people as well and others around the world. The question of | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
allowing our pleas through the legal framework which already exists to | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
take action when they are presented with a terrorist in front of them | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
but also on some of the other matters about how we should move | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
forward in a united way with other countries to tackle Isil, I think | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
that certainty has been wanting and not helped, I have to say, when | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
other members of the Shadow Cabinet cannot speak with one voice about | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
what the leader wants to do. I hope out of this week we will see some | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
clarity and certainty coming forward and I think we already know, and I | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
have heard more this morning, that David Cameron will come back to the | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
House of Commons this week. We do need a plan, it can't just be about | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
military action, it has to be more than that and I hope we can be in a | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
position to opportunity going forward to tackle the threat of Isil | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
which is the most major threat to security around the world that we | :31:31. | :31:31. | |
have at the moment. If Mr Cameron comes form with that | :31:32. | :31:42. | |
dashes forward with that kind of plan, would you back military action | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
in Syria? I believe there can be a case former literary action in | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
Syria. We are facing the most profoundly barbaric group of | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
terrorists I think I have ever realised in my lifetime or thought | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
about. -- military action. Also the most resourced group of terrorists | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
in the world. It is a different situation to what we faced a few | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
years ago where I voted against military action when Cameron came | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
back to Parliament to deal with Assad. We have in this country and | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
this region, a number of dangerous groups. There are a number of -- | :32:26. | :32:33. | |
there is a hierarchy of dangerous groups and Isil is the top of that | :32:34. | :32:41. | |
list. If it can be about, yes, what sort of military action should take | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
place, maybe the air strikes... Like we are doing in Iraq, within that a | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
wider plan as to how we will deal with civil war in Syria and what | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
else we need to do going forward. That is something I feel I could | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
support. You say there is no doubt that the Labour leadership takes | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
these matters seriously. Can I point out, just before the election this | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
year, the Shadow Chancellor penned his name to a document supporting | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
the abolition of MI5 and disarming the police? Last year he supported | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
people opting out of having their taxes fund any kind of military | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
activity. I do not think... I suspect a lot of people will not | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
think that is taking these issues very seriously. Is Mr McConnell fit | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
to hold the second most important position within the Shadow Cabinet? | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
One of the aspects of the leadership campaign over the summer was a sense | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
that Jeremy was authentic and very clear about his views. And, you | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
know, they may not be shared with everybody, I may have some different | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
views to Jeremy on that. Part of his appeal was the authenticity, that it | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
did not have any spin. He said he did not realise what he do when he | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
held that the letter and seemed to support it. We had a leadership | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
election. There was a massive surge in our membership and Jeremy had an | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
overwhelming mandate. Maybe, you know, Jeremy and John McDonnell, | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
have earned the right within that to put forward their views. What is | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
clear to me, I am a moderate politician, but I am also a | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
conviction politician. I do not say one thing to one group of people and | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
another to another group of people. If the leadership believes in these | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
things, they should say that and the biggest test is then to let the | :34:43. | :34:45. | |
British people determine whether they agree with them or not. I think | :34:46. | :34:53. | |
clarity, authenticity and honesty, they are all very important and that | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
is how you create trust. The last election, at the end, it was clear | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
your party had a problem over the issue of economic security. When Mr | :35:02. | :35:08. | |
Corbyn has said about not shooting terrorists and his reservations | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
about killing jihadi John, is not a danger, as some polls suggest this | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
morning, though it is not a danger, as some polls suggest this morning, | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
voters are national security and not just economic security? When it | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
comes to leadership, as you know, you may have your own view is that | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
you had before but you have to be open to actually other views as | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
well. That is why we're having this debate within the Parliamentary | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
Labour Party as to how we get a position regarding what we do next | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
in Syria. Jeremy has an overwhelming mandate. With that comes a | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
responsibility leadership which shows the ideas he puts forward and | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
answers to these really difficult questions, whether on the economy | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
national security, can also reach out beyond the Parliamentary Labour | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
Party and to that matter the Labour Party. Part of that is winning | :36:05. | :36:12. | |
People's trust to back you. That is the task, not just the Jeremy but | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
any leader of the leather party. He needs to show he can do that. I | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
think he wants to do that. -- the Labour Party. They have said this | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
morning they will have a full discussion in the Shadow Cabinet and | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
there will be discussions within the Parliamentary Labour Party as well. | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
Leadership does require a wider reach and responsibility beyond | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
boundaries. Are you surprised that in so many personal appointments, | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
John McDonnell, Ken Livingstone now on defence, Mr Corbyn seems to have | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
made no effort to reach out to the centre of your party, much less the | :36:51. | :36:57. | |
right of it? Well, all party leaders, I have to say, and I have | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
seen a few, do tend to sometimes surround themselves not only with | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
elected politicians but the paid staff who are part of their group. | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
For any party leader, whoever they point, they have to show they will | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
work in a way that is not just fashioned by their own particular | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
background and experience and maybe their own point of view. There is a | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
wider responsibility here. The Labour Party is not a pressure | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
group. We exist to win elections in order to put our platform into | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
practice in government. Therefore, the people around Jeremy, who have | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
been appointed, they have to demonstrate they understand the | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
responsibilities of that, responsibilities to the wider Labour | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
Party. Some people within it he may not agree with him on everything but | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
at heart we all want to win the next election. Importantly, 400,000 | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
people took part in the leadership election. That is amazing. We have | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
had a ground swell of people join the party and many of them want to | :38:01. | :38:10. | |
be active in a very positive way. I welcome mat. We have to convince | :38:11. | :38:12. | |
millions of people to support us in the next election and in all the | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
elections up to 2020. Final question to you, if Mr Corbyn continues the | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
way he has begun, will he be leading your party into the 2020 election? | :38:23. | :38:30. | |
Does he have any chance of winning? Look, we have had, seven, eight, | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
nine weeks since the leadership election. It has been rocky along | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
the way. We have made significant impact when it came to the debate | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
around tax credits for working people. Will he lead your party into | :38:43. | :38:49. | |
the next election? What Jeremy has to do now is focused on how he leads | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
our party right now. That will determine our fortunes in the weeks, | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
months and also in 2020. Thank you for joining us. | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
Hello and welcome to the Sunday Politics Wales. | :39:09. | :39:19. | |
Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood says she's prepared to listen to | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
David Cameron as he makes the case for British air strikes | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
Former counter-terrorism minister Kim Howells questions whether | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
the Muslim community here should do more to tackle Islamic extremism. | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
And what will the Chancellor's Spending Review mean for Wales? | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
If we believe what we read in the newspapers today, | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
David Cameron wants the UK to be part of bombing raids | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
against the so-called Islamic State in Syria in the next fortnight. | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
To do that, of course, he needs the backing of the House | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
of Commons, so the Prime Minister will begin renewed efforts to | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
Tomorrow he'll meet France's President Hollande for talks | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
on counter-terrorism co-operation and the fight against IS. | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
It comes as the leader of Plaid Cymru has told BBC Wales that | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
she's prepared to listen to the Prime Minister as he makes the case | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
But Leanne Wood says Mr Cameron would need to convince her party. | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
Events of the past week have brought the problems of the Middle East | :40:20. | :40:38. | |
into much sharper focus and much closer to home. | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
what do we do about so-called Islamic State? | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
France, the United States and Russia are already hitting them, but the | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
Prime Minister won't try for another vote to allow British air strikes | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
against them in Syria until he is confident he has enough support. | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
But even a party opposed to the Iraq war back in 2003 | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
is willing to at least lend him their ears. | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
To date we have not been convinced of the case but, of course, | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
we are prepared to listen to what the Prime Minister has to say | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
and we will listen very carefully to his proposals. | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
But I think there would need to be a number of tests met | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
before we were convinced that we were not about to make the same | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
when the UK government was involved in the invasion of Iraq. | :41:27. | :41:34. | |
What would convince you to back air strikes in Syria? | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
It is very difficult to discuss hypotheticals but, clearly, | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
the sanction of the UN would be something that would be something | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
that would be important to us, but that is not the only thing. | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
What we would need to see was some sort of plan to make sure | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
I would like to be satisfied, for example, that there was some | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
sort of definition as to what success would look like, | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
These are the things that were failed to be looked at ahead | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
of the invasion of Iraq and look at the mess that was created | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
as a result of making those mistakes. | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
Kim Howells was the counter-terrorism minister | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
under the Westminster Labour government. | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
Away from politics, art has long been his passion, | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
and he has begun to commit to canvass his own experiences | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
of being in Afghanistan to see Western action first-hand. | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
But he thinks British overseas action might be a thing of the past. | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
I think the government is probably very worried that it is now seen | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
by the Americans, for example, as being a bit insignificant. | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
Britain has turned in on itself since the invasion of Iraq in 2003. | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
I think people are very wary about getting involved | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
in other people's wars, wherever it is in the world. | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
Maybe that is a fundamental change in the nature of British society. | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
Maybe we never will get involved in wars again. | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
There was a time when Wales felt somewhat removed | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
from the threat of global terrorism but, given what happened | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
at the Stade de France, there are potential targets on our doorstep. | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
There is talk of the Millennium Stadium banning bags, | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
and all just a stone's throw from the part of Cardiff | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
which several young men left for Syria. | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
Riyadh Khan was killed in an RAF drone strike earlier this year. | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
The question now, what can be done here to stop future Riyadh Khans? | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
I'm afraid the response to atrocity after atrocity | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
What sort of thing would you like to see? | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
I have not seen thousands of British Muslims out on the streets | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
and demonstrating solidarity with people who have been murdered. | :44:00. | :44:08. | |
I think communities have got to wake up. | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
All of us have a responsibility to try and understand this phenomenon, | :44:13. | :44:21. | |
But that includes Muslim societies in this country. | :44:22. | :44:30. | |
they would strongly argue they are more than doing their bit. | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
The Dar Ul-Isra Centre has a long-established open-door policy. | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
Not for the first time, Muslim and non-Muslim children | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
have this week been finding out about the true meaning of Islam. | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
Politicians have already spoken for years of an anti-Muslim backlash | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
and with talk of 'shoot to kill' if the UK were to be attacked, | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
with suspicion high, many Muslims feel vulnerable. | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
and we can look back at the case of Charles de Menezes, | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
if they make a judgement not based on clear intelligence | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
but maybe their prejudices of what a suspicious individual looks like, | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
very often they are falling back on stereotypes. | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
A Muslim with a headscarf, a Muslim with a beard, and if | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
decisions are made on that basis, increasingly we are going to have, | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
we might have some sad, fatal incident. | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
I think Muslims are conscious that they are very much | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
Only recently, someone like Nigel Farage said Muslims | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
For Muslims, they are British, they have chosen their home, | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
and they are as British as can be, but constantly being questioned | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
about your loyalties is not comfortable | :45:49. | :45:50. | |
and often when we are talking about law enforcement, | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
it feels like you are in the firing line. | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
I think politicians can start talking differently about British | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
Muslims, talking about them not as a suspect community, not as someone | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
who has to take care of extremism when no-one else has, but as part of | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
the British public, part of the wider British fabric of society, | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
and not simply look at British Muslims as the solution | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
That might start helping towards building a warmer, safer Britain. | :46:18. | :46:25. | |
So how do we combat so-called IS and keep people in Wales | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
Easy to ask, far more difficult to get everyone to agree on an answer. | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
But whatever your colour, your creed and your community, until there is a | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
definitive answer, the uncertainty, the threat, the fear, | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
the suspicion is not going to go away. | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
Earlier, I picked up on some of the issues raised there with a Muslim | :46:48. | :46:54. | |
member of the National Assembly, the Conservatives' Altaf Hussain. | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
You will see that it has been condemned worldwide. | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
I am shocked, I am terrified by what has happened | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
we pray for their families both in Paris and in Mali. | :47:08. | :47:17. | |
We have seen that there has been a worldwide condemnation | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
Also, you can see that the Muslim Council of Britain, | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
the Muslim Council of Wales, have come out and condemned it. | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
There is also a peace candle vigil in Newport organised by | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
Islamic Council of Wales and that was attended by all the faiths. | :47:37. | :47:44. | |
You are right, they are not coming out on the streets | :47:45. | :47:50. | |
like we have seen at a time of war in Iraq, when we went there, | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
there were so much people against, but they were not listened to. | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
Muslims should coming out. They are coming out. | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
It think it might take a little more while. | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
this accusation that not enough is being done? | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
Do you think there is a view in the Muslim community that they | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
are being blamed, that they are constantly under suspicion, | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
You have seen that we have created in the past multiculturalism, which | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
has run its course, and what it has done is that we have multiple | :48:26. | :48:32. | |
cultures, Islamic parallel not getting integrated, | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
If you say the cultures are side-by-side rather than together, | :48:38. | :48:50. | |
We need to integrate, we have to celebrate our diversity, we have to | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
integrate, celebrating each person's uniqueness, and take it further. | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
What keeps us apart, we need to condemn that. | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
For example, we saw in the mosque in Cardiff, opening its doors, | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
allowing schools in, is that the kind of opening up of | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
the Muslim community you are talking about, or something different? | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
In this country you have a rule of law, | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
you have liberty, and you have freedom. | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
You can do what you want, really, but it should be under rules. | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
It is a way forward but it is happening now, | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
Probably they need to be more open, you are absolutely right. | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
This is the way forward, openness, integration. | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
Is it a difficult time to try and get this to happen, when we look | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
at the feeling in the public about immigration, about migrants | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
and refugees coming to Wales and the UK, we are looking at a time when | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
terrorism is a real concern for people, is it a difficult time | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
to ask the Muslim community of Wales to open up | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
because they might feel this suspicion against them? | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
700 people, it is said, have gone to Syria. | :50:16. | :50:27. | |
They do come back and when they do, we don't know. | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
So we need to be very open to each other in these communities, | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
they need to look after themselves, which is very important. | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
Has there been a complacency, perhaps, in Wales? | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
We note that there are young men in Cardiff, other cities perhaps, | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
who have been radicalised, who have gone to Syria to fight with | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
Have we felt these problems happened in London, elsewhere, | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
rather than in towns and cities in Wales as well? | :51:00. | :51:01. | |
Some blame poverty, a lack of aspiration, a lack of education, | :51:02. | :51:09. | |
Because there is some other problem which we don't know. | :51:10. | :51:18. | |
What would be your plan in terms of how that integration should work? | :51:19. | :51:31. | |
If you had the Muslim community's ear now | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
and you had a suggestion to make, what would that be? | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
It is, for instance, we have to have proper education in all the schools. | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
We don't know what is happening, where these children are going, | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
because there is no character identified by the Muslims | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
themselves, people are worried about what these children are taught, | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
We have to also bring goodness, what we have, humanitarian laws and | :51:57. | :52:05. | |
other things which we have, into our families and talk about it. | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
Austerity, cuts, balancing the books - | :52:11. | :52:19. | |
they're all very familiar phrases to anyone | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
who's listened to the news or read a newspaper over the past five years. | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
So what can we expect for the public finances over the next five years? | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
On Wednesday, all eyes will turn to number 11 Downing St. | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
George Osborne has said he wants to balance the books by 2019 | :52:37. | :52:39. | |
but it is turning out to be easier said than done. | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
The Chancellor's proposed changes to tax credits were defeated in the | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
House of Lords and have been widely criticised by some of his own MPs. | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
He has also faced criticism for apparently planning further cuts | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
Sharing the pain of how to cut public spending will be the big task | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
for Mr Osborne, but at least some of his own side are fully behind him. | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
The government are quite right to be making cuts to public spending and | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
Of course there are issues now around policing, which are being | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
looked at, and that is why the government have said we are going to | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
recruit thousands more people into the intelligence agencies, we are | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
certainly going to look at funding for firearms officers and the police | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
in general as well, but what we can't do is have some sort of knee | :53:26. | :53:28. | |
jerk reaction that says, we are borrowing ?100 billion here, let's | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
up it to ?160 billion to get people on the ground now. | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
It's a temporary fix that will undermine us in the longer term so I | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
hope we are not going to back down on the need to balance the books. | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
Ministers in Cardiff Bay want Mr Osborne to match ?600 million | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
of funding for a city deal, backing major transport | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
and infrastructure projects for Cardiff and South East Wales. | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
We are also due to see details of the proposed flaw | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
in the Barnett Formula, which decides how much money | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
And it will be interesting to see if he is as enthusiastic about the | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon in November as he was in March, | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
just before the general election campaign. | :54:14. | :54:15. | |
Either way, further cuts, we are told, | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
could do serious damage to public services in Wales. | :54:19. | :54:21. | |
I think we will get a continuation of austerity and cuts and, | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
more worryingly, we will see further cuts to the police force, and we are | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
concerned about the problem we have got with terrorism across Europe | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
And I think local government will be under attack again, | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
so older people in their homes will not get the care they need, | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
facilities they hold very dear in their committees will close. | :54:43. | :54:48. | |
George Osborne has said he wants to make an extra ?37 billion | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
of savings over the next five years so, from Wednesday, | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
he will be tightening his grip on the already squeezed public purse. | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
Joining me to discuss the Spending Review are two AMs, | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
Julie Morgan, a Labour member of the Assembly's finance committee | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
and Shadow Finance Minister and Conservative Nick Ramsay. | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
Thank you both for coming in. As we look ahead to Wednesday, we know | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
there will be further cuts, no doubt about that, but it is quite a bleak | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
forecast for those people on welfare, benefit changes. The | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
Institute for Fiscal Studies says Welsh households on average losing | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
?459 a year. It is a tough time over the next five years. It is a tough | :55:41. | :55:46. | |
time and it has been over the last five years. I agree with what David | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
Davies said in that clip, but the problem is that we have been | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
borrowing far too much, we have been living beyond our means and it has | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
fallen to the current UK Conservative government to draw the | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
reins in and get the budget back on track. That is what is Spending | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
Review is about. These are tough times but there is light at the end | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
of the tunnel. In a few years' time the books will be balanced and | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
Britain will be in an economically sound position. What do you think of | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
the importance of balancing the books? Not spending so much on | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
interest charges for money that has been borrowed? Is that a fair way of | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
looking at this? George Osborne is not succeeding in balancing the | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
books and figures that came out last week showed that very clearly. He | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
said the deficit would be gone by the end of the first parliament, | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
when the Conservatives took over in the coalition. That did not happen. | :56:40. | :56:53. | |
I think the was halved. Now he says it will be balanced by 20/20 but the | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
figures last week showed that was going to be difficult to do. It will | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
be interesting to see what he does. Just looking ahead to 20/20, George | :57:00. | :57:01. | |
Osborne wants a surplus by 20/20. Does he need to revise that, to have | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
a rethink, given the tax take is lower than expected? First of all, | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
you can't have it both ways. Labour can't say we have cut too far and | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
too fast, and then say the deficit has only been halved. That was his | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
promised. But you have done that would have required far greater | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
cuts. All I am saying is, that was his mantra, he was going to stop the | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
deficit in the last Parliament and he did not. He said he's going to do | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
it by 20/20. It is what the Conservatives have said. But the | :57:36. | :57:41. | |
situation was revised. Later this week, we will know where we are | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
going to be fiscally in a few years' time so we will see at what point | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
that surplus will be achieved. What we have seen over the last five | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
years, cuts to public spending, but presumably the UK Government will | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
have gone for the easiest cuts first. Whatever is coming now is | :57:59. | :58:01. | |
going to be far more difficult to get through. It is not quite as | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
bleak a picture as people paint. Within those cuts that are being | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
made, there are protected areas. The National Health Service, the key | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
priority of people in this country, that is going to be protected. We | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
know the Welsh Labour government have not decided to protected her. | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
In policing, there are going to be cuts to policing, but within the | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
budget there is protection for issues like counter terrorism. Very | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
important at the moment. And yet this morning, George Osborne refused | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
to rule out the idea that there would be fewer police officers on | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
the street. That has got to be a cause for concern during a time when | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
we are facing terrorist threats. Within policing there are going to | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
be priority is made. This is not going to be easy for anyone. A few | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
years down the line, there is going to be a surplus, we are not quite | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
sure the extent of what that will be yet, but imagine the amount of money | :58:58. | :59:04. | |
we are going to have to spend on public services. This is a | :59:05. | :59:06. | |
short-term challenge and a few years down the line, Wales and the UK will | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
be fiscally better off. Looking at what this will mean for Wales, | :59:10. | :59:16. | |
already we have heard Jane Hutt, the finance minister here, saying it is | :59:17. | :59:19. | |
going to be terrible news for public services if there are any more cuts. | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
Presumably we can expect some form of cuts on Wednesday. How bad? We | :59:24. | :59:30. | |
have heard that some of the departments, the settlement has | :59:31. | :59:32. | |
already happened with the government and there have been cuts, and those | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
were transferred to Wales through the Barnett formula. That suggests | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
there will be cuts. I am very concerned about local government | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
because a lot of cuts have already happened. Probably it is very | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
difficult to make any more cuts in local government. But we are going | :59:49. | :59:53. | |
to have a Barnett floor. It will be interesting to see how much that | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
Barnett floor is. This is the idea there is a minimum spend coming to | :00:00. | :00:04. | |
Wales for the Welsh block grant. The Barnett foreman is obviously totally | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
unsuitable and a House of Lords committee reiterated last week again | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
that it is not fit for purpose but we have the government saying that | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
during the Spending Review is going to bring forward a Barnett floor but | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
that needs to be done in conjunction with the Welsh government. As I | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
understand, so far, it has not been discussed with the Welsh government | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
so it will be interesting to see what has happened. It is vital so | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
that we don't fall even further behind, particularly when spending | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
rises. That is a good point. Presumably having a Barnett floor is | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
good but you need to decide what that is or else it is meaningless. | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
How much do you think that needs to be pressure on to make sure it is at | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
an acceptable level? The details have got to be finalised. The level | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
of the floor will be important and we will be looking closely at that. | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
But I make the point again, for the first time in living memory, we have | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
a UK Government looking to protect the amount of money coming to Wales. | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
We have not seen that before. 1.I would like to make, one of the | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
issues we have seen in Wales, education of schools budget has been | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
protected, 1 % above whatever comes from the UK Government. There were | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
some suggestions in the newspapers this week, maybe that will make it | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
through to the next Labour manifesto. Do you think that needs | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
to be maintained or do you think it is better to have the flexibility? I | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
think we have got to look at everything. The manifesto is in the | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
process of being made so no decisions have yet been made. But in | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
the position of the cuts that will be coming from Westminster, | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
everything has got to be open for discussion. It would be great if we | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
could keep that extra 1% because the education of our children must be | :01:55. | :01:56. | |
one of the most important thing is that we do and there is a strong | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
commitment from the Welsh Labour government but I think everything | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
has to be considered. And we need to protect the NHS budget. I am afraid | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
time has beaten us. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for | :02:10. | :02:11. | |
time has beaten us. Thank you for joining us. Thank you | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
time has beaten us. Thank you for need to come up bicycles and onto -- | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
people need to get on to bikes and of polluting cars. | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
Can Jeremy Corbyn rein in his discontented MPs? | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
Can George Osborne sell his spending cuts? | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
Helen, let's start with the spending review. It is quite clear that | :02:29. | :02:44. | |
deficit reduction is not getting any easier, even though the economy has | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
been growing for some time. I thought it was interesting that even | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
Nigel Lawson said the Chancellor may have to look if he wants to continue | :02:53. | :03:00. | |
reducing the deficit, not just at spending cuts but tax rises. That is | :03:01. | :03:09. | |
about having a surplus by 2020. It gives them very little room for | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
manoeuvre. The big problem for the Tories in this Parliament, last | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
parliament you had heavy cuts for councils which fell a lot on adult | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
social care. A small number of people which hugely affected by | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
that. The next round of cuts will mean a much larger group of people | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
are affected. That is much harder to get past the public. It gets in a | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
lot of money and a big revenue from the Government. Is that possible? | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
There is logic to it, given to what has happened with oil prices. The | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
logic is, low oil prices and the political logic will be, the gunmen | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
will say, they have done enough on making fuel cheaper tax wise in | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
recent years. They now have political room for manoeuvre on that | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
issue. George Osborne is now boxed in, not just by the decision to aim | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
for a surplus and the decision to aim for troubling pounds in welfare | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
cuts, but also by the decision alluded to by Nigel Lawson to | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
protect entire departments of spending, health service and foreign | :04:18. | :04:25. | |
aid. Anything to do with people over 65. That leaves you with one option, | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
to go to departments which have already made absolutely swingeing | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
cuts over the last two years and ask for more. There is a perverse | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
incentive that when the Treasury knows that for example local | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
government or business is able to make very deep cuts, as they have | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
done, those departments are awarded by being asked more cuts. There is a | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
perverse incentive almost to hold out. George Osborne has a thoroughly | :04:51. | :04:58. | |
consistent record. He will duff up the Labour Party and then implement | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
the fiscal deficit reduction plan. In the last parliament he halved the | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
overall fiscal deficit. In this Parliament he went into the election | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
saying, I will run a 10 million surplus two years before the general | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
election. He has all it is a laid back by one year. He has announced | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
today the 10 billion has pretty much gone. He may run a surplus but it | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
may be ?10 rather than 10 billion! That will be much closer to the Ed | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
Balls plan. As Helen was saying, he has got himself into this mess | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
because he set a trap for Ed Balls. There is a danger of just public | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
weariness. I think the Treasury is worried about this. The mood of the | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
public. We are into our sixth year and there is still 80 million to go. | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
The public in Greece just got fed up. In Portugal a few weeks ago, the | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
Portuguese economy was recovering well but the public got fed up. In | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
the election campaign we heard about the long-term economic plan. If you | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
asked people what that was, there are a few new. Most people assume | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
that things were on the upside. They did not realise the cuts in the | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
second term would be deeper. The comprehensive spending review will | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
be live on BBC Two. It will be a political event. Let's move on to | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
the Labour Party. We have the vote on Trident. SNP are putting it down | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
and it is meant to be a trap for Labour. The leader it is against it | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
but the party is in favour of it credible to say, just abstain? I | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
think they will get away with it. It was set at conference but it cannot | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
come onto the conference floor for three years. The Labour leader is | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
completely opposed to it. He has said there is no compromise on it. | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
He has had to make a series of compromises. No matter what Mr | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
Corbyn and John McDonnell wants, they cannot change it for another | :07:19. | :07:26. | |
three years? What happened at the Labour conference is they attempted | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
to have it debated but they failed. It is up to the National policy | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
Forum. This review is being chaired by Maria Eagle and Ken Livingstone | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
for that they are looking at it and it will go to the National policy | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
Forum to decide. That is a way of overruling what the existing rules | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
are full you have a strange situation where Jeremy Corbyn wants | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
to promote grassroots decision-making on things he agrees | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
with. Not so much in this case. The point Caroline Flint was making, you | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
cannot keep having free vote on such massive issues as to whether this | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
country should have nuclear deterrent and whether we should | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
extend the battle against Islamic State to Syria. You cannot have a | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
huge disparity between leader and Parliamentary party on existential | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
issues. What it leads to is the leader having to use flirted, | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
surreptitiously methods to get his own way and negotiate around party | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
policy. The ultimate example this week with getting Ken Livingstone, | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
the famous defence expert, to have the defence review. Briefly, because | :08:36. | :08:46. | |
I want to move on. If you get 60% of the vote in the leadership election, | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
it is that at the fair to put your views forward. They need to make a | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
decision by the time there is a big vote on Trident next year. The | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
difficulties they hear and now. And that is Syria. The here and now is | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
having an effect. We had a policy morning. One of the questions was | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
about national-security. -- a poll this morning. Who do you think would | :09:10. | :09:19. | |
keep you and your family safe? 39% trusted David Cameron and only 17% | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
voted for Jeremy Corbyn. The point I put to Caroline Flint, this is | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
dangerous for Labour. They already have a problem with economic | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
security. That is one reason they did not win. To not be trusted | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
national-security as well, it means it is well nigh impossible to win an | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
election. There was a seductive narrative about patria to them with | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
Jeremy Corbyn not singing with Queen -- not seeing the Queen 's speech. I | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
think particularly in the aftermath of Paris, what people were looking | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
to see from leaders were looking to see from leaders in summary. That is | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
a huge problem. The problem also comes with the fact these polls are | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
very bad. At this stage, Ed Miliband was doing better and that was, even | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
then, people were talking about whether it would bring him down. | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
Debts have a look at the state of the parties with the poll. I'm told | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
this is the biggest Tory lead over Labour since John Major took over | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
from Margaret Thatcher, 15 points. There we have the Tories on 42 and | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
Labour down to 27. The Labour vote came down a couple of points. Ukip | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
are still doing pretty well, at 15%. The Lib Dems are still | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
flat-lining at 7%. The Scottish National 's get five. It means a lot | :10:46. | :10:54. | |
more in Scotland. The Green party is down at 3% and going nowhere. At | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
this stage of the process is it is not -- the process, it is not that | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
important. Given all the problems we have had about tax credits and Tory | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
difficulties, it is pretty disheartening. The last time the | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
Labour Party scored 27% in a general election was under Baikal foot as | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
leader. It has been a defining moment for Jeremy Corbyn and the | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
Labour Party. -- under Michael Foot. You need to ensure the nation's | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
finances are safe and national-security is safe. On the | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
second one, is a nation secure in your hands? He appeared to be found | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
wanting. You have a at a clown situation, what would you do? He | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
equivocated and said, I would be an easy. -- a Bataclan Theatre | :11:52. | :11:59. | |
situation. Only the next day did he finally set out the circumstances in | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
which he would approve that type of response by the security services. | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
The problem was his initial responses showed his instincts. | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
Putting that in front of the British people, you will have a challenging | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
time winning an election like that. The Parliamentary Labour Party has | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
to be careful. They may not be in tune with the people in the country | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
in the Labour Party who elected Mr Corbyn as leader. Although they are | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
getting impatient, I would suggest they have to wait at least until May | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
until the Scottish elections, the local government elections. They | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
really cannot move before then, can they? They acknowledge he has a | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
thumping great mandate from the election. A lot of those people have | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
actually converted to being full party members. He still has a huge | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
backing at grassroots level. The Mint is thriving and drawing in huge | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
crowds of people. -- momentum is thriving. Even a later post was then | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
they could come third in Scotland. They were saying Jeremy Corbyn is | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
the 1 guy who could bring back the votes that were lost to SNP in | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
recent years. By one warning to the Labour Party is, if you think 27% is | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
low, wait until the public starts to focus on the next election? 27% is | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
not the floor for Labour. We shall see. That is all for today. | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
The Daily Politics will be back on BBC2 at noon tomorrow. | :13:40. | :13:41. | |
And we'll be back again next weekend at the same time. | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
We will be back to disentangle the spending review next Sunday at the | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
same time. Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:54. | :13:59. |