Browse content similar to 16/07/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
With Cabinet divisions over Brexit, spending and leadership spilling | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
onto the front pages, we'll be talking to international | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
trade secretary Liam Fox about Britain's future | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's been to Brussels to set out | :00:49. | :00:56. | |
Labour's vision for Brexit - but with the party suffering its own | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
divisions on Europe, are they being entirely clear | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
And as Ukip searches for another leader, will taking an even more | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
hard-line stance on Islam make the party relevant again, | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
If Ukip goes down the route of being a party that is anti | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
the religion of Islam, frankly it's finished. | :01:16. | :01:24. | |
Carwyn Jones on what he calls the Brexit power grab. | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
Are we really heading for a constitutional crisis? | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
And who's been serving political aces? | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
Yes, all of that to come, and I'm joined for all of it | :01:33. | :01:46. | |
by three journalists whose every word is as closely followed | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
And much like the Liberal Democrat leadership contest, they've | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
won their place on the panel because no-one else wanted the job. | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
It's Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott and Tom Newton Dunn. | :01:58. | :02:07. | |
First today, for a supposedly private gathering, the meeting | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
of the Cabinet on Tuesday has generated rather a lot of headlines, | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
most of them featuring Chancellor Philip Hammond. | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
Yesterday there were disputed claims in the Sun over what he may or may | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
not have said about women driving trains, and today the Sunday Times | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
says colleagues picked him up for describing public sector workers | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
as overpaid, although some dispute that version of events. | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
Well, Mr Hammond was on the Andrew Marr Show this morning, | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
and he took the unusual step of suggesting that the source | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
of the stories may be people unhappy at his position over Brexit. | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
If you want my opinion, some of the noise is generated by people | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
who are not happy with the agenda that I have, | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
tried to advance of ensuring that we achieve a Brexit | :02:47. | :02:55. | |
which is focused on protecting our economy, protecting | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
our jobs, and making sure we can have continued rising living | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
So what do you make of that, Isabel? The Chancellor thinks he's being | :03:03. | :03:15. | |
undermined by Cabinet colleagues who don't trust him on Brexit. That's | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
quite remarkable to say that in public. I also think it's completely | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
true. That's the least controversial part of it! The briefing is his | :03:27. | :03:33. | |
position on Brexit and also frustration on his position over | :03:34. | :03:35. | |
public sector pay then it is over any kind of leadership manoeuvrings. | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
We saw on the Andrew Marr Show that he was doubling down on the issue of | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
public sector pay rises. He didn't categorically deny using the words | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
of overpaid, in fact he reiterated the fact he sees them as whether | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
they are overpaid or not so I believe he did use that phrase but | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
clearly he's got the tone wrong and I don't think he's done himself any | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
favours. He's a pretty wealthy man himself, multimillionaire. He must | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
have some kind of political deafness if he thinks it's OK for someone in | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
his position to say, in a number of cases, lowly paid public sector | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
workers are overpaid? I think he is politically deaf, and not | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
emotionally intelligent. He has a great head for figures but very poor | :04:29. | :04:40. | |
at expressing himself. It was a crass remark over women train | :04:41. | :04:53. | |
drivers. He may be in the right place on some arguments, he's just | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
extremely poor at expressing and that's what gives his opponents the | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
chance to rip his head off. He should have worked out by now that | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
it is clear whatever... Because of the dim munition of Mrs May's | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
authority that whatever you see in the Cabinet now is likely to become | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
public in some shape or form. I think this is the profound lesson of | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
the story, that Cabinet discussion is almost impossible now, and | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
Hammond will go away this summer thinking I can't engage in a proper | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
debate in Cabinet because they will leak it. It sounds as if they were | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
having quite a grown-up conversation about public sector pay with a | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
spending department ministers putting the case for breaking the | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
cup and Hammond saying from the Treasury perspective this is what's | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
happening. Which is what normally happens in Cabinet. He would hope | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
so, not any more. He won't be able to speak his mind in Cabinet because | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
he knows it will be leaked and that is another sign of fragility of this | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
Government, when you cannot have a grown-up discussion about public | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
sector pay even in Cabinet, and that means Cabinet discussion which is | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
urgently needed on Brexit and the rest of it cannot happen in an open | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
way because leaking is happening. Mrs May is not exactly top of the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Pops with her own party at the moment but doesn't help her in the | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
fact that her Chancellor is even less top of the Pops? The key thing | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
is that backbenchers don't want a leadership contest at the moment. | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
There are a number of Cabinet ministers or more senior figures who | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
have been around longer who may feel this is their last chance of the | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
leadership and they are urgently wanting it happen now. Backbenchers | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
don't want it, I don't think it will happen. Will it happen? I don't | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
think it will. There are egos clashing in the Cabinet and also | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
many who just want things to stay the way they are, so they will. We | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
will talk more about this leadership matter later in the programme, but | :07:04. | :07:04. | |
let's move on. This week the government passed | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
another Brexit milestone when in introduced the Repeal Bill | :07:07. | :07:08. | |
to the Commons. It will incorporate all EU law | :07:09. | :07:10. | |
into the UK's domestic And although a vote on the Bill | :07:11. | :07:12. | |
isn't due until the autumn, the government still has plenty | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
on its plate when it Brexit secretary David Davis | :07:17. | :07:18. | |
and the EU's negotiator Michel Barnier will sit down | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
for another helping of Brexit negotiations in Brussels | :07:22. | :07:23. | |
this week. Progress now needs to be made | :07:24. | :07:25. | |
on some big questions. They include: the rights of EU | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
citizens living here, How to maintain an open border | :07:30. | :07:31. | |
between Northern Ireland And the size of the financial | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
settlement or so-called divorce bill Previous estimates have included a | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
figure of The British government has put no | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
figure on it, simply saying it This week, Foreign Secretary | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
Boris Johnson said the EU could "go whistle" if it was | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
expecting an extortionate fee Brussels wants this set | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
of negotiations focusing on the principles of separation | :08:05. | :08:17. | |
to be done by the end of the year. They can then turn to the main | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
event, the future trading relationship between the UK | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
and the EU. While the UK remains a member | :08:24. | :08:25. | |
of the EU customs union, it cannot But it can hold advanced discussions | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
with other countries. This week, Australian Prime Minister | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
Malcolm Turnbull said his country was very keen for a deal | :08:33. | :08:34. | |
as quickly as possible. And at the G20 summit, Donald Trump | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
said he wanted to sign a very powerful UK-US trade | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
deal very quickly. But as trade deals normally | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
take years to negotiate, So there will be plenty | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
for both sides to digest, as negotiations continue | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
over the summer. I'm joined | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
by the International Trade Your brief is to agree new free | :09:08. | :09:17. | |
trade deals but you cannot sign any until Brexit is done, can you even | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
begin proper negotiations this side of Brexit or is that illegal too? We | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
cannot negotiate and conclude a trade agreement but we can scope | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
them out. We can get our preparatory work done. We have got ten working | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
groups established across the world with countries from Korea to the | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
United States to Australia. I know scoping the out is fine, you can | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
talk about trade but you cannot begin formal trade negotiations | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
until after Brexit. No, but we have trade working agreements. Free trade | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
agreements are not the only thing that are in the mix as it were, they | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
are what people think about but we also have mutual recognition | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
agreements where we can reduce some of the barriers to trade, the | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
technical barriers, in that process. We have a number of other things | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
going on. We have got to get our trading schedules in Switzerland and | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
Geneva and the World Trade Organisation organised. We then have | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
40 EU free trade agreements and we have to get them ready because if we | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
were not to negotiate those and be ready on the first day of Brexit, | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
there would be huge market disruption. Although you can clearly | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
do a lot of technical work and you can talk till the cows come home, | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
there will be no free trade deals on the shelf ready to sign come March | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
2019 when we are leaving the EU, that's correct isn't it? Technically | :10:53. | :11:00. | |
there will be new ones... There will be no free trade deals ready to say | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
right, we are out, here is a deal I have baked earlier. Not right away | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
because we are not permitted to do that as part of our membership of | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
the European Union and one of the things I want to get is greater | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
freedom to be able to negotiate on behalf of the UK. That's not | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
possible when you are inside the customs union. There's much talk of | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
a transition after 2019. You told Bloomberg you didn't mind a few | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
months, the Chancellor this morning said it would be a couple of years. | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
What is it? The key thing is why would you have a transitional | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
arrangements, how long would it be and what would the conditions be. | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
For me first we have to leave the European Union in March 2019 so | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
there can be no case of extending EU membership. At that point as a third | :11:52. | :11:59. | |
country we can have a transition agreement which keeps as little | :12:00. | :12:01. | |
disruption as possible but it has to have an end date. You said a few | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
months, the Chancellor said a few years, why the difference? As the | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
Chancellor said, it is more a technical argument, because for | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
example how do we get new border equipment in place, how do we get | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
the arrangements for immigration put in place, but for me, you know, I've | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
waited a long time and campaigned long time to leave the European | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
Union. As long as we leave in March 2019 I'm happy, as long as we have a | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
time-limited transitional period to make it work for business. The | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
Chancellor doesn't deny the transition could take up four years. | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
The Brexit Secretary David Davis says it could be a maximum of three | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
years, you are talking months. Shouldn't you sort this out around | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
the Cabinet table instead of all three of you sending mixed messages? | :12:53. | :13:00. | |
We are dependent on for example what HMRC Tal us, how investment is | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
going. It's also a question of negotiating with our European | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
partners. We know what's involved, why are you sending out these mixed | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
messages? I don't have a problem with the transition period as long | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
as it is time-limited. It is not just the time, it is the conditions. | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
I want in the transitional period to be able to negotiate agreements at | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
that point. We cannot have a putting off over the freedom to negotiate | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
trade agreements. At the moment is it clear you would be able to sign | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
any free trade deals during a transition period? No, that's to be | :13:40. | :13:47. | |
negotiated. So if Mr Hammond or Mr Davies is right, up to three or four | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
years, it could be 2021 before you get to sign a free trade deal. We | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
don't now how long any would take to negotiate. They don't happen | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
overnight. Would you even be able to negotiate during a transition | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
period? I would hope so, that is one of the conditions we might set. It | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
is certainly something I would want to see because otherwise it makes it | :14:14. | :14:15. | |
much more difficult to take advantage of the opportunities that | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
Brexit itself would produce. Your ink will run dry before you get to | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
sign one of these agreements. We have a huge amount to do and it's | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
not just at the free trade agreement level. We have for example what we | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
get at the World Trade Organisation because the real game for the UK is | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
to get a global liberalisation in the services sector -- the real | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
gain. And I want to come onto that in a minute but before do, are you | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
group of the Cabinet ministers that seems to regularly be briefing | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
against Philip Hammond? No, I deplore leaks from the Cabinet, I | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
think my colleagues should be quiet, stick to their duties, and I expect | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
discipline to be effective. The only people smiling that this will be | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
people in Berlin and Paris. Why are people doing it? The need to have | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
less prosecco. They don't trust Philip Hammond, do they? I don't | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
think that is true. I read in the press we have very different views, | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
in fact our views are very similar on things like transition. I don't | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
know where it is coming from but I think it should stop. | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
But it is happening? It is happening and I think it undermines the | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
position of the government. We do not need an interim leader or an | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
alternative leader. We have a very good competent leader in Theresa | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
May. But he thinks it is being done by fellow Brexiteers? I do not know | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
who is doing it and they should stop. Let's come back to the tariff | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
free trade. There is much talk about that. The Chancellor says much of | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
our trade with the world is in services and free trade deals won't | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
make any particular difference. Do you agree with him? They can make a | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
difference. It has been estimated with the OECD that free trade deals | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
with the United States could add ?42 billion to our bilateral trade by | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
2030. There is a game to be made. In an economy like the UK which is 80% | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
services, what we would benefit from is a range of global liberalisation. | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
One example is data. We have an economy where we talk about freedom | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
of movement of goods and services, but you also have to have the | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
freedom of movement of data. One thing I would like the UK to lead on | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
is to look to a global agreement on that. But the talks have come to an | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
end. There is no great global movement. That is not true. We have | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
just had a multilateral agreement, the trade facilitation was signed | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
this year which seeks to diminish friction at customs around the world | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
and will add 70 billion to the economy. But it leaves plenty of | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
nontariff barriers in place. The moment you start to talk about these | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
complicated rules and regulations that hinder services, it does not | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
make free trade deals impossible, it makes them much more on placated and | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
prolonged to do. Correct? You need to look at what is happening in the | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
global economy. According to the OECD, in 2012, the G7 and G20 | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
countries were operating about 300 nontariff barriers. By the end of | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
2015, they were operating nearly three times that number. The silting | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
up of growth and global trade is being done by the global economy. We | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
need to be looking at how we can remove some of those barriers, | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
because otherwise our prosperity becomes limited. Is it still your | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
view that no deal would be better than a bad deal? Anyone who goes | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
into that negotiation without that is foolish. We will not accept any | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
deal they will give us. That is the problem David Cameron had before the | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
referendum. I think our partners believed we would accept a bad deal | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
rather than none. But Philip Hammond has given the game away. He said no | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
deal would be a very, very bad outcome. The Europeans know that we | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
have realised no deal would be a very bad outcome. Is he right? I | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
think you can argue on what the outcome would be. It is very | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
important as a negotiating tool, and the Prime Minister is 100% right. | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
Those we are negotiating with, need to believe that we would walk away | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
rather than accept a bad deal. But if you're going to walk away you did | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
not say the consequences would be very, very bad. You do not agree | :19:07. | :19:22. | |
with the key is what is our negotiating position? You simply do | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
not hand it away. So he is wrong? He says very, very bad. We have to | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
accept we have a right to walk away and those we are negotiating with | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
have to understand that. No businessman would go into a deal and | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
say whatever the outcome, we will accept it. And no business would go | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
into a major negotiation with six different voices but your government | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
is. David Davis speaks for the government not the Sunday | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
newspapers. Not Philip Hammond. Philip Hammond was very clear this | :19:55. | :19:57. | |
morning on the issue of transition. We are leaving the single the -- | :19:58. | :20:06. | |
market, we are leaving the customs union. Let me just quote to some | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
other issues. It would be good to get some clarity. Is there a | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
contingency plan for no deal? Yes, government departments are all | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
working for their contingency plans for what would happen if we got to | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
the end of negotiation with no deal. Why did the Foreign Secretary say | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
there was no plan for no deal. There are contingency plans across | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
Whitehall. Is he wrong or out of the loop? As dead no. There are | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
contingency plans and my department and other departments have | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
specifically been tasked... He said it this week. Well, that is not | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
correct. We would be foolish not to have such contingency plans. I | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
understand the argument, you need to bring the Foreign Secretary in. He | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
is only the Foreign Secretary that you would need to bring him in, I | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
would have thought. You want is full deal with the EU as possible. Would | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
you be prepared to pay for that kind of open access? It depends what you | :21:12. | :21:20. | |
mean by pay. We have to start with where we are with the European Union | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
at the moment. We already have a tariff free arrangement. I know what | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
we already have. The only reason why we would not continue with that is | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
if the politicians on the other side of the channel wanted to put | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
politics before economics. What they said they want an annual fee? If | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
they are talking about Britain continuing to pay for those | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
international arrangements... I am not talking about that and I think | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
you know I am not. If we get a full access trade deal, that they say you | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
have to pay an annual fee for this full access, should we pay it? I | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
would not want to make a public position while our negotiations are | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
coming on but I think you would find it difficult to square with WTO law. | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
Has there ever been a free trade deal where you pay the other side | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
for access? Not that I am aware of. Nor me. It would be unprecedented. | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
Are you ruling it out? I am not going to say anything. I see say we | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
should not have a number of different cabinet voices ahead of | :22:30. | :22:30. | |
our negotiations so I will not do that. We will have a | :22:31. | :22:54. | |
negotiation. We will try and get as free deal as possible. Let me tell | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
you why it is important. I know why it is important. I have another | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
question. You said the EU has trade deals with a number of other | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
countries at the moment of which we are part of, South Korea and Canada | :23:04. | :23:05. | |
are two examples. Will they continue to trade with us on the existing | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
basis, or will we have to do new deals or change these deals after | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
Brexit? We are negotiating with his third countries so we have something | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
so that deals are translated into UK law so there is no disruption to | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
trade. It is not clear. It is break clear. The Canada deal has not yet | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
been ratified by the European Union. So we do not know if we can carry on | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
trading with those countries which the EU has a free trade deal with on | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
the same basis. We have not spoken to a single country and we have | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
working groups with Switzerland and career which make up 82% by value. | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
Not a single one of those has indicated they did not want to carry | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
out this transitional adoption. In the case of Canada, in the case of | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
Singapore, where that agreement has not yet been reached by the EU, we | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
will have to think then about a Plan B and how we go into a bilateral | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
agreement. The EU now regards as may as a lame duck leader. It is true in | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
Brussels, Berlin and Paris -- the EU now regards Mrs May as a lame duck | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
leader. There is a hung parliament. Labour will not save your bacon on | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
Brexit. They want a quick election and they will vote to bring that | :24:26. | :24:32. | |
about. This election result has severely undermined Britain's | :24:33. | :24:39. | |
negotiating position. If you are looking at European governments, | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
they are looking at dealing with minority governments all the time. | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
They are dealing with coalitions formal and informal. The key is we | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
have something stronger than that. We have the will of the British | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
people behind us clearly expressed in the referendum that we are going | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
to leave the European Union, whatever Tony Blair or anyone else | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
says. We will leave in March 20 19. Now the job of the government is to | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
get the best deal and that is best done by my colleagues getting on | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
with their departmental work, not involving themselves in things they | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
do not need to be involved in, giving our backbenchers the | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
reassurance that we have a united Cabinet. Liam Fox, thank you. | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
Jeremy Corbyn went to Brussels this week to meet with the EU's | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
chief Brexit negotiator, Michael Barnier. | :25:25. | :25:26. | |
We're told Mr Corbyn wanted to set out Labour's | :25:27. | :25:28. | |
But on some of the big questions - like Britain's relationship | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
with the single market and the customs union - | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
Here's Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell speaking earlier. | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
I believe we have to try and maintain the benefits | :25:38. | :25:39. | |
of the customs union, and that's one of the issues | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
Does it mean staying inside or leaving? | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
Keep all the options open, keep all the options... | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
Under Labour we could stay inside the customs union? | :25:49. | :25:50. | |
We are concentrating on the objectives rather | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
than the structures and that seems to have a resonance | :25:54. | :25:55. | |
I'm joined now by the Shadow Business Secretary | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
Rebecca Long-Bailey, she's in our Salford studio. | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
Good morning to you. Good morning. If there is a snap general election | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
it could well be Labour negotiating Brexit, so let's try and get some | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
answers to some fundamental questions. Is Labour in favour of | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
Britain remaining a member of the single market? What we have said it | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
want to retain the benefits of the single market and the customs union. | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
We have to be flexible in our approach, we appreciate that. The | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
end goal is maintaining the current benefits we have because we are | :26:32. | :26:32. | |
standing on the edge of a cliff, quite frankly, on | :26:33. | :26:54. | |
that matter. But you would concentrate on remaining a member of | :26:55. | :26:56. | |
the single market? The machinery we use to maintain those benefits is | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
open to negotiation. We have got to respect the result of the referendum | :27:00. | :27:01. | |
and the will of the people, in terms of having greater control over our | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
laws and the border. If we could negotiate staying in the single | :27:05. | :27:06. | |
market would be fantastic but whether it is likely have to be | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
seen. We are looking at all the options on the table and getting | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
access to the single market is one of those. Everybody wants access, I | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
am talking about membership. It is still not clear whether you would | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
negotiate to remain as a member of the single market, with all the | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
consequences of free movement and the European Court that would follow | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
from that. What is your position? We want to retain the current benefits | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
we have is a member of the single market, but we appreciate there will | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
be free movement and we will lose control over our laws. That was one | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
of the key positions that were set out in the referendum and people | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
were extremely concerned about that. That has to be negotiated. If we | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
could negotiate membership of the single market while dealing with the | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
other issues, that would be great. I think that would be unlikely. We | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
have to look at a more flexible approach while not being a member. | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
Is Labour in favour of remaining a member of the customs union? Again, | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
the position is similar. We want to retain the benefits we have in the | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
customs union. We want to have our cake and eat it, as do most parties | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
in Westminster. So you and Boris Johnson or on the same wavelength? | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
We need to be flexible, not cut our nose off despite our face. I am | :28:28. | :28:35. | |
asking for your position. Would you be clear to be prepared to sacrifice | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
not being able to do free trade deals, as the price for remaining in | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
the customs union? We have to be extremely flexible. We should be | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
able to carry out and negotiate our free trade deals. You cannot do that | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
in the customs union? So are you in or out? That is why it is a point | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
for negotiation, Andrew. We want to retain the benefits of the customs | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
union will negotiating trade deals as we see fit. That will form part | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
of the negotiations themselves. We cannot cut our nose despite our face | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
without coming out of the customs union without any transitional | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
arrangements whatsoever and send businesses over the cliff. Since you | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
do want to keep your cake and eat it. You want to stay in the single | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
market but not have the obligations that go with it, stay the single | :29:30. | :29:39. | |
union but not do -- stay in the single market but do your own trade | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
deals. The opposition is untenable. That is the point of the | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
negotiations... To be untenable? Not to be untenable. We have | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
negotiations. The machinery we have whether it is through outside | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
agreements or whether it is about a negotiated form of an amended | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
settlement, that is a moot point frankly. We need to make sure we | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
have the same benefits. John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor, | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
says people would interpret remaining in the single market is | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
not respecting the referendum but you say it is an option to keep | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
open, who is right? I think he is right in what he said. It is | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
automatically assumed that once you leave the EU you leave the single | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
market and that is generally the case. I would be surprised that we | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
would be able to negotiate any of the concessions that we want to make | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
as remaining part of the single market as a member. I am not saying | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
it is completely off the table because stranger things have | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
happened, but what we need to focus on is less on the machinery and more | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
on the outcome. We need to make sure we retain the benefits and we | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
negotiate some form of agreement to deal with that. | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
But why would you keep an option open that would not respect the | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
result of the referendum? People assume that once you leave the EU | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
you leave the single market. That could be negotiated, but it's | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
extremely unlikely. I wouldn't rule anything out at this stage because | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
stranger things have happened and this process so far has been | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
extremely chaotic. But you would have to decide your negotiating | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
position. Saying we don't rule anything out is not a negotiating | :31:28. | :31:35. | |
position. We are clear on our negotiating position, we want to | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
retain the benefits we currently have as part of the customs union | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
and the single market, whether that is inside or outside is a moot | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
point. Rex it means Brexit, we are clear on that. -- Brexit means | :31:49. | :31:57. | |
Brexit. How can it, if you want to stay inside the single market and | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
Customs union, and you said access would entail accepting some element | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
of free movement. That's what you said but your manifesto was | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
categorical - free movement would end after Brexit, which is currently | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
Labour policy? The manifesto was clear free movement would end. The | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
point I was making at the time is there are some areas which are | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
extremely complex, for example the free movement of scientists. There | :32:27. | :32:35. | |
is an extreme state of concern regarding that, so the Government | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
has to look at things like that. There might have to be concession is | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
made in certain areas like that in order to get an associative | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
membership for example but the clear position overall is that free | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
movement would end and we are in favour of reasonable and managed | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
migration. We are also not in favour of the current undercutting of wages | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
for example through the Swedish denigration and we want to see that | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
end immediately because we don't think it is right company cancels | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
labour overseas and undercut British employees. Let me finish on another | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
topic. John McDonnell again, the Shadow Chancellor, said this morning | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
the victims of Grenfell Tower were victims of social murder. What is | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
social murder? I haven't spoken to John about that but what happened in | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
Grenfell was absolutely horrific. But were they victims of social | :33:32. | :33:38. | |
murder? I haven't spoken to John to understand the term but in my | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
constituency we have a large number of tower blocks that have the same | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
cladding on and people are living in fear. Following the Lakanal House | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
fire, the coroner made recommendations the Government | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
should be installing sprinklers in all housing over 30 metres high and | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
they haven't done that. I call on than to do that immediately whilst | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
also making sure the funding is available to carry out necessary | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
remedial works. One other issue has come light... My question is | :34:15. | :34:24. | |
important... When John McDonnell says that the people in Grenfell | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
Tower were murdered, murdered by political decisions, is he right? I | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
go back to the point I made earlier. I haven't discussed it with John... | :34:35. | :34:43. | |
Two weeks ago. The Government should have acted on recommendations. Were | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
they murdered? They should have acted on recommendations to retrofit | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
sprinklers and they didn't. There was incompetence is no question, | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
dereliction of duty, some terrible decisions made that resulted in that | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
appalling event that we saw but does that amount to murder? It is a | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
simple question. You could look at it case of manslaughter but the fact | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
is people lost their lives through a failure to conduct adequately a duty | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
of care. People would assume that is murder if you like, if it was taken | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
through the courts, and could be classified as corporate | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
manslaughter. It's not murder? We are going round in circles here. The | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
point is the Government should have acted on recommendations to retrofit | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
sprinklers years ago and should have looked at amending building | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
regulations instead of kicking the issue into the long grass time and | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
time again. People where I live are living in extreme fear, and we want | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
the Government to take action immediately. Rebecca Long-Bailey | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
from Salford, thank you for joining us. | :36:00. | :36:01. | |
You may not have noticed but Ukip - the party that once promised | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
and arguably delivered a political earthquake - is having | :36:05. | :36:06. | |
The last leader, Paul Nuttall, stood down after the party saw its vote | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
is one anti-Islam candidate threatening to split what's | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
Forget the warm prosecco, if there is any plotting going on in Ukip | :36:16. | :36:33. | |
about who should be in charge, it would be going on over a pint. And | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
there is plotting. This programme understands Ukip's ruling body could | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
ban one of the candidates from standing, and that is not going to | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
go down terribly well. Anne Marie Waters, a former Labour activist, | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
wants to be the next leader. She believes Ukip needs to talk more | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
about Islam, a religion she has called evil. She says there is | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
growing support for her views including among the hundreds of new | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
members who have joined Ukip in recent weeks. Are you anti-Islam? I | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
don't like the religion, no, and a lot of people get confused on Islam | :37:15. | :37:21. | |
and all Muslims. The religion, the Scriptures and how it is practised | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
in most of the world I find quite frankly abhorrent. There are | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
millions of people in this country who think as I do. They don't | :37:29. | :37:36. | |
want... And the real extreme right could rise if people are not allowed | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
to talk about this. Nigel Farage has already said he doesn't want to be | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
the leader again, but he still has a clear view of what Ukip 's macro | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
future should and should not hold. Ukip goes down the route of being a | :37:52. | :37:59. | |
party that is anti the religion of Islam, frankly it's finished. I | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
don't think there is any public appetite for that but it is timing | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
and the party would be finished. If there are some within Ukip who say | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
the party had already moved to the right at the last election with its | :38:11. | :38:12. | |
integration agenda. Banning | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
the burka and physically checking children for female | :38:20. | :38:21. | |
genital mutilation. If we don't really do something | :38:22. | :38:22. | |
about FGM now, we never will. Anne Marie Waters wants to go | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
further but also suspects The party chairman says | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
there will be due process according to Ukip's constitution, | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
including the screening process | :38:34. | :38:49. | |
for its leadership candidates conducted | :38:50. | :38:51. | |
by an external vetting company. But like the old boss, | :38:52. | :38:52. | |
he doesn't think Ukip should become What we're going through now | :38:53. | :38:54. | |
is a process where people can I'm talking about the process | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
we have, which I think is robust enough to protect the party, | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
its history, and protect its future. We have always been | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
about being for something, we are not against something, | :39:06. | :39:07. | |
and hopefully that will come through in this leadership election | :39:08. | :39:09. | |
so I'm excited about it. I'm not focusing on one | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
particular candidate. But it has got senior | :39:13. | :39:13. | |
party figures worried. Several MEPs have told me | :39:14. | :39:15. | |
the majority of their colleagues in Brussels would walk away | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
if Anne Marie Waters Another Ukip senior source | :39:19. | :39:20. | |
said there would be mass The deadline for leadership | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
nominations is the 28th of July. So far, around seven people have | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
said they intend to stand. Of course the bigger the field, | :39:28. | :39:29. | |
the fewer the votes required to win. One senior MEP told me it would be | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
the most rancorous contest the party had ever had, | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
amongst the least stellar cast. The man who led Ukip at its most | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
successful says direction is one thing but the party must also become | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
more professional on their current | :39:42. | :39:43. | |
trajectory, then they will on their current | :39:44. | :39:51. | |
trajectory, then they will And as I say, if Ukip withers | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
and Brexit is not delivered, something else will replace it | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
so I'm saying to what is still my party, unless you change radically, | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
get your act together, Whatever the direction | :40:02. | :40:03. | |
the new leader takes Ukip, there are already plenty who think | :40:04. | :40:13. | |
the party is over. We say goodbye to viewers | :40:14. | :40:24. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes, | :40:25. | :40:34. | |
we'll be talking about what's next Hello and welcome to | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
the Sunday Politics Wales. In a few minutes, | :40:40. | :40:51. | |
the Assembly's Presiding Officer tells us what she thinks | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
about the Repeal Bill. And with Wimbledon in mind, | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
who's been on form this term and who's crashed out | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
of the political match? But first, Carwyn Jones went | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
to Brussels this week to meet the EU's chief negotiator | :41:07. | :41:08. | |
Michel Barnier on the very same day as the Repeal Bill came out, | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
that's the legislation that sets out how EU rules will be | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
transferred after Brexit. The UK Government wants them to be | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
held temporarily at Westminster, the Welsh Government says it's | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
a naked power grab. So with that in mind | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
was Carwyn Jones' visit It's a question I put to him | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
when I spoke to him in the garden Bear in mind of course that | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
wasn't the original date Actually, we had organised this | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
meeting before we knew the date. It may seem like a highly organised | :41:43. | :41:49. | |
event but it wasn't. What was important was, | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
we were able to go, explain the position as far as Wales | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
was concerned, get an idea of how the Commission saw the process | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
moving forward. That is important in terms of us | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
being able to see what the way Next week we have got an enormously | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
important full week of Brexit negotiations and from a UK | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
perspective, there are mixed That is not good for any | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
negotiating strategy. I make absolutely no apology | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
for putting forward Wales's voice. I don't see that in any way | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
as mischief making, that is my job When I had the meeting | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
with him we both knew it wasn't negotiation, it was simply us | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
outlining what qA said so far and I was trying to understand | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
what they saw process as. We have, for weeks and weeks | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
and weeks, said to the UK Government we would like to work | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
with you to develop a Brexit that We have asked them that week | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
after week after week and they haven't come back to us | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
with any constructive solutions. They are now, they are now, | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
but we did say to them we are happy to work with you but bluntly, | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
if you're not going to work Did you pick up the phone | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
to David Davis this weekend? David Davies has been | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
speaking to Mark Drakeford. He spoke to Mark last | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
on the 3rd of July. I have been speaking | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
to Alun Cairns as well. Theresa May, where she is, | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
nobody ever knows. David Davis is the man | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
representing Wales, representing Welsh farmers, steelworkers in those | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
Brexit negotiations and you are not Instead, you go to Brussels | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
and you are speaking to the man who is representing French farmers | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
and Italian farmers. I don't agree with David Davis, | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
bluntly, and the position the UK You can talk to David Davis | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
and it is very useful to have meetings with him | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
and that is something I very much value but he believes the UK | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
Government should leave the single market, the customs union | :43:46. | :43:47. | |
and the jurisdiction of the ECJ. I don't believe in | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
any of those things. We are not going to | :43:51. | :43:52. | |
achieve common ground. We have had the Repeal Bill | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
published this week. A central issue here | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
is you want all those European powers distributed to | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
the devolved nations. But the problem is, | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
there is no time for that. This is an internal | :44:08. | :44:09. | |
matter for the UK. As things stand at the moment, | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
those powers come straight here in They don't go to London, | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
they don't go to fisheries, What the UK Government is trying | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
to do is stop them coming Basically, to put it bluntly, | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
England does what it wants, Wales, Scotland | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
and Northern Ireland can't. I understand we need to make | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
sure things don't change suddenly overnight, | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
but we said to the UK Government, the powers come | :44:40. | :44:41. | |
to us, let's all agree we're not going to change things | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
until we have all sat down It is an important | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
principle that it is done through consent | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
and not by imposition. They have got to take all the risk | :44:51. | :44:52. | |
out of the situation. You can understand it from the UK | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
Government's perspective when actually the devolved | :44:56. | :44:57. | |
nations may not do that. Their priority is the morning | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
after Brexit, Welsh farmers being able to sell their lamb | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
to France and other That is the greatest risk Welsh | :45:05. | :45:06. | |
farmers have is not being able to sell as they do | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
in the single market. That is by far the greatest | :45:13. | :45:14. | |
risk that they face. If Welsh farmers face | :45:15. | :45:16. | |
any kind of barrier, whether it is financial, | :45:17. | :45:18. | |
in term of regulation to selling into Europe, | :45:19. | :45:20. | |
that is a massive chunk of That is what the UK | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
Government needs to focus on. It's not as if any of us have said, | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
as soon as we get the power we will do something | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
incredibly different to There is an important | :45:32. | :45:33. | |
principle here and that is, it is not for Westminster | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
to try to take back powers from the Assembly once they have | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
arrived back from Brussels. These are an exceptional | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
set of circumstances. 20 months left and the morning | :45:45. | :45:46. | |
after we leave, they have got to be in a position to be able | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
to trade and strike a deal. You can only do that | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
with one system. The UK Government is doing the most | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
logical thing possible which is all the legislation comes | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
in on a temporary basis and they have said all those powers | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
will be devolved in time. They have to do this | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
because the priority Surely, farmers will | :46:09. | :46:10. | |
agree with that. Trade will trump the constitution | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
in terms of priorities. As I said, trade is the most | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
important issue, that is true. But if we don't have access | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
to the single market on the terms we do now, | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
farmers will suffer. There has been no | :46:28. | :46:29. | |
guarantee of subsidies It is possible we might be | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
forced to go to a badger cull because of something the UK | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
Government has agreed. These are and not to be | :46:40. | :46:41. | |
taken lightly, they are not strained constitutional | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
issues, they are fundamentally The people of Wales voted in 2011 | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
for the powers the Assembly has now and constitutionally the powers | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
when they leave Brussels come You talk about a power grab, | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
does it really stack up? You look at all the problems the UK | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
Government is facing the moment, are they really desperate to get | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
hold of farm subsidy That is a wing of the | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
Conservative Party that is centralist, they still haven't come | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
to grips with devolution. Now, the principle | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
powers should not be removed from any devolved Assembly | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
without the consent of We face a situation where we might | :47:20. | :47:21. | |
want to do something but we are told you can't do it | :47:22. | :47:29. | |
and Westminster says, This is a partnership of four | :47:30. | :47:31. | |
nations at the end of the day. If Westminster was to turn around | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
and say, we will impose a restriction on ourselves as well, | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
that might be a different argument. You said earlier on this is | :47:43. | :47:44. | |
temporarily, where in the Bill does Call me old-fashioned but I want | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
to see it in writing first. The view there of the First | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
Minister but what about the Assembly's approach | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
to the Repeal Bill? In her first interview | :47:59. | :47:59. | |
since it was published the Presiding Officer Elin Jones | :48:00. | :48:01. | |
joins me now from Aberystwyth. Good morning. | :48:02. | :48:14. | |
I suppose the first question to you is, whether you agree with the First | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
Minister that Wales is facing a constitutional crisis. I certainly | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
think the bill as it is drafted currently is a recipe for | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
constitutional uncertainty. There is a serious undermining of the | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
constitutional settlement as we know it come as it has been voted fourth | :48:34. | :48:43. | |
by the people of Wales. Therefore, powers that we would have expected | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
as a result of the EU Brexit referendum to return from the EU to | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
Wales from Brussels to Cardiff, agricultural powers, fisheries, | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
environmental, the repeal bill as it is drafted will grab or fleas are | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
whatever word you wish to use, those powers will be frozen by the UK | :49:05. | :49:12. | |
Government and not returned and not be able to be utilised by the UK | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
Government. A crisis is going too far? It is uncertainty, it is crisis | :49:19. | :49:25. | |
because we don't really know what this will mean for the people of | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
Wales. It seems to me as if it is the path of greatest resistance to | :49:32. | :49:39. | |
providing the ability of Parliament throughout the UK to work together, | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
to come up with a solution that will meet the needs of EU negotiation and | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
also meet the needs of people, businesses, farmers who need a | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
degree of certainty as to what life will look like the day after Brexit. | :49:53. | :49:59. | |
It is the greatest resistance to that because it is now a | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
constitutional issue between both UK Government and Welsh Government, but | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
also the Scottish Government, Scottish Parliament and for my | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
purposes, the National Assembly. This is not their week they | :50:15. | :50:16. | |
committees of the National Assembly that have been doing significant | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
work over the last year in working towards Brexit, this is not the way | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
any of that work has visualised wanted to see. The Brexit being | :50:25. | :50:31. | |
implemented across the countries of the United Kingdom. The trouble is, | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
the UK Government is the member state and will be leading the | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
negotiations. That is not much the Assembly can do. Yes, that is much | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
the Assembly can do. The Assembly has the gift or not its consent to | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
this bill as it is drafted. It doesn't seem as if there is a | :50:54. | :51:00. | |
majority from day one to give that consent to this Bill as it is | :51:01. | :51:09. | |
drafted. But it could be ignored? There is no statutory legal reason | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
why the UK Government, it is more convention, or how do you see it | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
panning out? It is not a good way to do Brexit, to give certainty to | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
businesses and farmers and communities in Wales that one | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
Parliament is ignoring the view of another Parliament. There are many | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
ways in which this could be done better than the way the repeal Bill | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
is putting forward at the moment. I want to use these next few weeks and | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
months because time is running out, but the National Assembly has done | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
much work on this already. It is in some underlying principles that | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
could be there for the four countries on common frameworks can | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
make use of powers on day one after Brexit. That can give the certainty | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
that the UK Government is looking for in its negotiations with the EU. | :52:00. | :52:08. | |
What would you do if it was ignored? If the vote in the legislative | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
consent motion was passed at the Assembly to reject the fuel bill and | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
the UK Government ignored it? If we go to that point, and I | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
seriously hope we won't, I am confident the UK Government will | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
work with us to redraft clause 11 which is particularly problematic of | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
the EU withdrawal bill. If we got at that point where the view of the | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
Assembly, the view of the Scottish Parliament elected bodies that have | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
been elected and powers are thereby view of referenda that have happened | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
in those in Scotland, is that he is ignored then we are in a | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
constitutional crisis because people have voted for the legislative | :52:56. | :53:02. | |
constitutional framework that we have currently. For that food to be | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
ignored by any government of any political colour by any house of | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
parliament is the constitutional crisis. I am hopeful that we won't | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
get to that point. There are means of achieving the aims of the UK | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
Government wants to achieve in its deliberations with the EU without | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
having to have this constitutional showdown between their National | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the UK Parliament. We will have | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
to leave it there. Thank you very much indeed. | :53:39. | :53:39. | |
Now, as the Assembly and Westminster get ready to shut up | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
shop for the summer, which of our politicians can say | :53:43. | :53:44. | |
With today's Wimbledon tennis final in mind | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
Cemlyn Davies has been assessing their form | :53:48. | :53:49. | |
to see who's been serving aces and whose efforts have hit the net. | :53:50. | :54:08. | |
Politics has never been a love all game and it has been another | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
year of gripping political drama with parties on all sides | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
doing their very best to serve aces and catch their opponents out. | :54:16. | :54:22. | |
An unexpected championship was called last month. | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
As ever, there were winners and losers. | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
In Cardiff Bay, the political toing and froing saw the | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
Conservatives climb up the Assembly rankings overtaking Plaid Cymru | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
as the second-largest group, thanks to a couple of | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
It has been a good year for the Welsh Conservatives in the Assembly. | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
We are the official opposition here in the Assembly. | :54:46. | :54:47. | |
It does give us the ability to put extra scrutiny | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
The Welsh Conservatives also made significant gains in the | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
local elections, however the party's results a month later were less | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
An electoral upset saw the Conservatives lose three Welsh | :54:58. | :55:07. | |
seats at the general election as a tactical gamble backfired | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
The overall vote share went up dramatically for us, up to 34%. | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
Something we have not achieved for nearly 100 years in Wales. | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
Sadly, we lost three very good colleagues. | :55:18. | :55:19. | |
Would you have preferred to have greater influence | :55:20. | :55:21. | |
As I said, it is easy to look back and to say, I told you so. | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
We're working together with colleagues to make sure we were in | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
the best place possible for the next set of elections. | :55:30. | :55:31. | |
We have to learn the lessons of the last campaign. | :55:32. | :55:34. | |
We had a very successful local government campaign in Wales, that | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
was a Welsh-led campaign, a Welsh-led campaign that | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
delivered real results for the Conservatives in Wales. | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
Plaid Cymru broke serve in Ceredigion to gain a Parliamentary | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
seat but the party failed to strike a blow into the target areas like | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
the Rhondda where party leader Leanne Wood umed | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
and aahed over standing before finally deciding not to. | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
I am needed here in the National Assembly. | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
This is where we want to become the biggest party. | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
We are focusing now on the next set of Assembly elections. | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
I will be the candidate for Plaid Cymru for First Minister | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
Leanne Wood says she is disappointed by Plaid's fall | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
in the Assembly rankings but she thinks there is still | :56:21. | :56:22. | |
everything to play for and the scores could change again | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
Strange things are happening in politics. | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
Strange alliances and allegiances are being made, particularly because | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
the Brexit question goes across different party divides. | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
I think possibly the Assembly we have got now may not be | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
And what about Dafydd Elis-Thomas's defection? | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
I think the decision on his part was the right one for both of us. | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
What about the Assembly's wild cards? | :56:52. | :56:59. | |
Ukip are about to complete their first full year in Cardiff Bay. | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
I think I have added a bit of colour to the proceedings | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
as well which hasn't always been to everybody's taste. | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
However, Ukip double-faulted in the elections this year | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
and two of the party's once seven strong team in the Assembly | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
have now called out since they were elected in 2016. | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
Our big challenge for next year in the year after is | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
to establish Ukip's purpose in a post-Brexit Britain. | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
And so, as Westminster and Cardiff Bay head for | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
a change of ends after some exhausting rallies, the parties will | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
A chance to iron out the foot faults and prepare for the next volley | :57:45. | :57:50. | |
So that's where we are, but what can we expect next? | :57:51. | :57:58. | |
Dr Sam Blaxland from Swansea University is here with me now. | :57:59. | :58:07. | |
Good morning. A great opportunity to take stock. Another extraordinary | :58:08. | :58:14. | |
year. Let's kick off with the general election and Jeremy Corbyn's | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
performance. I got the impression Welsh Labour whereabouts | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
differentiating themselves from Jeremy Corbyn and lo and behold he | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
was more popular than people thought. We can't make Windows into | :58:26. | :58:34. | |
souls what would've happened if Corbyn would've taken the lead in | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
Wales. It is the Corbyn factor. He is a very good campaigner, much | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
better out on the streets. For people like me, of people of my | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
generation, he is a breath of fresh air even though he is an OAP. He is | :58:50. | :58:56. | |
a world away from the politics my generation grew up with in terms of | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
Tony Blair. He had a huge impact for a lot of people. What is remarkable | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
is he was saying a lot of socialist things, he had a very expensive | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
manifesto and it was remarkable he went out and said all these things | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
and wasn't challenged by the Conservatives. That was one of the | :59:17. | :59:19. | |
significant features of the election. Let's talk about the | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
Conservatives. A disappointing election. A second disappointing | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
election result in Wales. It interrupted this narrative of | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
progress and momentum that we have seen from a low base in the last 20 | :59:36. | :59:42. | |
years. What it boils down to is the share of the vote certain party gets | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
isn't reflective of the seats they win. As Andrew RT Davies said, they | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
got a high yet share of the vote than they did in 1993 but then | :59:52. | :59:58. | |
proceeds fell. It is about the way everything aligned. Plaid Cymru, the | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
share of their vote went down but they got more seats. It is | :00:04. | :00:09. | |
confusing. The Conservative momentum stalled. If there was any momentum | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
there. That's what Knutson said fault of the Conservatives. It came | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
down to the fact that we have returned to this 2-party system. A | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
great proportion of the vote was given to Labour and the | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
Conservatives. The huge fault lines like Leanne Wood said, the big fault | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
lines in politics are within the political parties themselves. | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
It is a good point. On that, let's look at the party is caught in the | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
middle. The Liberal Democrats, an obvious example here, expectation as | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
we move to the future, how would you see the role they are going to | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
undertake? Is there any way back. There should be a role for the | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
Liberal Democrats, they represent 48%. Vince Cable is an interesting | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
politician and I am glad he re-entered. For some reason, that is | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
an impotence hanging around there. I don't know if that is a hangover | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
from their coalition ears. Within the Labour Party and the | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
Conservatives, there are grants of supporters who look far more like | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
the Lib Dems than their leaderships. You have a socialist leadership for | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
the Labour Party and the reasonable Conservative leadership for the | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
Conservative Party. It isn't going to happen with if I made a wild | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
prediction about the future of British politics there should be a | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
real -- the realignment of the parties. | :01:46. | :01:54. | |
Because of Brexit. Brexit has been the fundamental | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
dividing point. Are we going to see a general election within the next | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
year? When I came here last time I said, | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
yes. Nye Bevan said you can't look into the crystal ball if you had the | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
book. I don't make predictions about the future because it is bad. I | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
don't think we will because who would want to go into it? We've got | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
our Parliament. An element of self preservation for Conservative MPs. | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
They should be able to tackle the line coming from the Labour Party. | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
If there was another general election, if all of that was | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
rewritten again, the Conservative should be able to tackle the big | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
open goals on policy. There is one other element which is anecdotal but | :02:46. | :02:54. | |
it is interesting. People were voting for Labour because they were | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
voting against the complacency of the Conservative Party. That needs | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
to be taken into consideration. In terms of Brexit, the role of the | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
Assembly in all of this, briefly, what tact you think it'll take? | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
It is hard to tell. Ultimately it is the second player here, the main | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
constitutional aspect of it lies with Westminster, lies with people | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
like David Davis. Thank you very much indeed. | :03:27. | :03:26. | |
That's it from us for this series, we'll be back in September. | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
Twitter never rests of course, we're @walespolitics. | :03:30. | :03:31. | |
But for now that's all from me, time to go back to Andrew. | :03:32. | :03:48. | |
This is the last Sunday Politics before Parliament breaks up for the | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
summer recess, and most MPs could definitely do with some time away | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
from the political hothouse at Westminster. | :03:55. | :03:56. | |
But when they come back in September, both the Conservatives | :03:57. | :03:58. | |
and Labour face some big questions over how to win an overall majority | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
We'll talk about that in a moment, but first let's have a look at | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
what's been happening to Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn since polling day | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
And what we are saying is the Conservatives are the largest party. | :04:11. | :04:26. | |
Note they don't have an overall majority at this stage. | :04:27. | :04:35. | |
She who dares doesn't always win. Now let's get to work. The party | :04:36. | :04:45. | |
that has lost in this election is the Conservative Party. The | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
arguments they put forward in this election have lost. I think we need | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
a change. That's not quite true, Labour is a party that lost. The | :04:55. | :05:03. | |
Government failed and her coming over here to try to speak to... Who? | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
Who do you want to speak to you had your chance. Now everyone will go | :05:11. | :05:12. | |
angry and crazy. I think the public will want us to | :05:13. | :05:43. | |
get the broadest possible consensus in looking at those issues. If the | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
Prime Minister would like it, I am happy to furnish her with a copy of | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
our election manifesto. You are now playing for Arsenal! The | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
comments we were getting back that were passed on to me were that we | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
were going to get a better results than we did. Devastated enough to | :06:07. | :06:19. | |
shed a tear? Yes, a little tear at that moment, yes. | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
Let's start with Mrs May. Another day, another leadership rumour, | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
challenge. She is tired, she wants to fight on, she doesn't. Is this | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
corrosive to her leadership? Hugely corrosive. My estimation of what's | :06:36. | :06:44. | |
really going on in the party, and Tory MPs in Westminster, is the vast | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
majority and by that I mean probably around 300 don't want a contest. | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
They want her to stay and finish Brexit, see it through, because of | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
the incredible Pandora's box that would open. Who's putting these | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
incredible column inches in the papers? They are giant egos, they | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
have been at this for several years if not decades and they are keen to | :07:12. | :07:19. | |
manoeuvre themselves into the position to be the leader. In their | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
own interests? Because most Tories I speak to think the risk of another | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
leadership election is horrendous for them because they fear it could | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
lead to a general election and they will lose. The ones you are talking | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
about, they put their own self-interest above the interest of | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
their party. Without a doubt. They are funny bunch, we know them very | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
well, but they are simply incapable of putting their own interests | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
underneath those of the country. The problem for Mrs May is this won't | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
stop. They are going to carry on doing this I think unless she says | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
something about her own leadership and conference is the time to do it. | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
She needs to spell out a timetable for herself, when she will stay and | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
go. She almost did that, didn't she, in her interview with you. She came | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
very close. I agree with almost everything Thomas said, but those on | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
the backbenches who don't want a leadership contest, it's not purely | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
for the good of the country, there is self-interest there too and that | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
is because they are eyeing up the top job and they need a few years to | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
build up a following. My view is people like Boris Johnson 's and | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
Amber Rudd for their own reasons think they stand a better chance | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
once Brexit is done. At the moment Mr Johnson too toxic for the | :08:47. | :08:57. | |
Remainers, Amber Rudd too toxic for the Leavers. Last time Mrs May went | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
walking in the hills, in Wales, she came back and called an election. | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
She's about to go walking in the Swiss mountains I understand in the | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
weeks ahead for a break. Is there any chance she comes back and says | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
I'm not going on with this? No because although I think being a | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
human being she will be deeply traumatised by what's happened, and | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
it will probably hit her more intensely when she moves away for a | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
few days from the cocoon drama of the whole situation, you just have | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
to keep going and she will be walking and thinking what have I | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
done? But she is clearly trying to hold on and she's built up a new | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
Number Ten. Almost an entire new personnel in there. She's brought | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
Damian Green in as a deputy so there's no sign she plans to go in | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
the short-term but leadership is partly about a spell on us and her | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
ministers. The fact that her ministers, even in her interview | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
when she was being robust in two years, they know that she won't | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
fight part of the next election which means part of the spell has | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
gone. When Tony Blair gave a date for his departure, you could feel | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
the power losing away from him. The fact that assumption is there means | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
this feverish speculation will carry on until she goes. Let me come on to | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
Mr Corbyn who would seem to be in a much better position after the | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
election. What does he now do though? Because if you cannot | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
provoke an election quite quickly, you never know how long your day in | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
the sun will be. But he does have a mission or he and the people around | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
him, they want to take control of those parts of the Labour Party they | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
don't already take control, and they will probably do it. Absolutely, so | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has established he's a very good campaigner. Everybody now | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
agrees on that. Look at the clip, he now dresses in a white shirt and a | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
dark suit, and he actually looks I won't say Prime Minister Arial but | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
like he could possibly lead the whole country. -- prime ministerial. | :11:13. | :11:21. | |
But the whole thing is built on protests, there isn't a fully | :11:22. | :11:23. | |
established policy set up where he is ready to take over the Government | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
if this election comes. The challenge for him is to turn the | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
huge generation of support he's got over protest into the ability to | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
govern. You heard from Rebecca Long-Bailey on Brexit alone, the | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
party now admitting their policy is cake and eat it, that is not | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
electorally satisfying. Final word from Isabel. The fact is Mr Corbyn | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
has been a transformative figure for the Labour Party. If and when he | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
goes, it's not going back to normal. It is transformative for the Labour | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
Party and the country. I disagree with Tom, they put forward a more | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
detailed programme than the Conservatives at the election and be | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
costed it to some extent. I think to be facing two weighs on Brexit is | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
the only place for a Leader of the Opposition to beat and he has been | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
smart on that. Tony Blair when he was a leader faced to microwaves on | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
single currency, outside of Parliament he seemed be more robust, | :12:29. | :12:37. | |
but he's played it very smart. All I would say is for Brexiteers we want | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
more Tony Blair saying it won't happen. You think he's such a toxic | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
figure that whatever side he supports damages that side? | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
Absolutely, yes. As a leader of an opposition party you cannot advance | :12:56. | :13:04. | |
things. All right, we will have to leave it there. Enjoy your summer. | :13:05. | :13:06. | |
That's all for today, and that's all from us until September. | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics - | :13:10. | :13:11. | |
unless it's parliament's summer recess. | :13:12. | :13:19. | |
But for me it is thank you and goodbye. | :13:20. | :13:54. | |
It was always a very, very deep love affair | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
When I think of the world we inhabit, everyone will think, | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
Yeah. And it wasn't, it was done by hand | :14:01. | :14:03. |