09/12/2012 Sunday Politics West Midlands

And in the Midlands: What does it cost to have a decent standard of

living? Increasing numbers of councils here say they'll pay staff

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2130 seconds

the living wage, 20% more than the Hello once again from the Midlands,

I'm Patrick Burns. We have a distinctive perspective on the

political week here in our part of the country. We're joined from the

Upper House by one of our Lords spiritual, the Right Reverend

Jonathan Gledhill, the Bishop of Lichfield. Also with us, the

Conservative MP for Rugby, Mark Pawsey. And a little later we'll

also be talking to one of Birmingham's Labour MPs, Shabana

Mahmood. Let us think broadly about the Autumn Statement. How did it go

down? Do you feel better or worse off? I think we were confused first

of all. I put my towel on my head trying to understand the detail.

More and more, I felt the next stage is going to be vital and that

we take everybody with us. If people feel that what is happening

is not fair and the rich are getting richer and the poor are

getting poorer and the Autumn Statement did not do much to stop

that, we have got trouble on our hands. But is a big challenge for

you, the politicians. Absolutely. We are carrying on with the work of

making certain that the next generation do not end up having to

pay the bills of this generation. It is not fare of us to pass it on

to our children. How do you answer the specific challenge that the

bishop has set? The worry of the disconnect between those who are

weathering the downturn quite well and those who are being hit very

hard. I am not sure the disconnect exists. We have worked very hard to

support families. A great example is getting rid of the few will rise.

That will save the average family about �80 a year. We are bringing

the amount that people can earn before they pay tax... That is

going up. We are doing the right things for people who have got

ambition and want to get on in life. Are you satisfied with that? A I am

certainly satisfied with the intention but it will be how it is

translated into action. To be continued. Thank you for the moment.

So the Chancellor with no money duly delivered the capital projects

that the Midlands' unions, business and political leaders had all been

crying out for, but only by cutting �5 billion from current spending in

central Government departments. I came away from the day at

Westminster with the definite conclusion that it really is still

plan A for austerity for five more years.

A budget in all but name. It's the second biggest event in

Parliament's calendar, surpassed only by Budget Day itself. This

autumn statement did find some feel-good projects. Super fast

broadband for Coventry, M6 widening in Staffordshire and, in response

to a friendly question from James Morris the Conservative MP for

Halesowen and Rowley Regis, a Black Country super-hospital paid for by

a revamped private finance arrangement. We have identified the

hospital as a prime candidate for the new project. I know it would

help improve facilities for the many people he represents as well.

I think it is a very good project and I hope we are able to proceed

with it. I wondered how he could pay for it

all. By capping working age benefits at 1% for a start. That's

a real terms cut in living standards, as I reminded the

Liberal Democrat who is now Parliamentary Assistant to the

Treasury's Chief Secretary. 1% on benefits but at the same time

public servants are only receiving 1% as well. There is a sort of

fairness, I think. But a former West Midlands Minister

drove home the Opposition's attack, the Chancellor hits the weakest the

hardest. The central point for ordinary families and pensioners

who are already struggling to make ends meet is that the difficulty

they are facing is going to go on for much longer because he has

failed to create jobs. He is failing to deal with the deficit as

well. Conspicuous by their absence from

this trade-off between coalition partners, Liberal Democrats could

only shake their heads when the mansion tax was kicked into touch.

While senior Tories including the Chancellor himself were left to rue

the fact that regional pay deals for public sector workers had also

been consigned to the political long grass.

And as I mentioned earlier, we're also joined here today by the

Shadow Business Minister Shabana Mahmood. She's the Labour MP for

Birmingham Ladywood, one of the most deprived constituencies in the

UK. As a shadow Business Minister, you have got to welcome the

business-friendly tax holidays, cuts in corporation tax because

that is really what is going to help you constituents. I think we

have also been calling for bringing forward infrastructure investment

and projects. The welcome those as well. I would welcome that but what

we have seen already is delay when it comes to the delivery of these

projects. The flagship Regional Growth Fund is a complete fiasco.

You would not find anyone who would say it has gone off to a good start.

Only a very small number of businesses have had money to help

them grow and thereby grow the economy. It is not just the

projects they are bringing forward, they have got to deliver on them.

They are not treating it with the urgency it deserves. They are

devolving all of the money Lord Heseltine has been recommending

through to the local economic partnerships. That is a significant

move. A slow start but it is moving now. The slow start... Lower and

middle income families are paying the price. We cannot afford to get

off to a slow start. We need urgent action. The government does not

understand how much of an emergency we have when it comes to jobs and

growth. There is not much money about. They are trying to sort out

the mess they say they inherited from the government. What we have

seen from this government is every single economic judgment that

needed to be made is one they have got wrong. They have borrowed much

more money than they would have had to borrow if they had followed the

plans put in place by the previous government. It is not good enough.

You see the case from the opposition. It is too slow and

delay and divert is costing the country dear. We can all agree that

more money needs to get into these projects more quickly. I am pleased

the government has put the money into the new hospital in Sandwell.

One of the challenges of the past government was that they did not

have enough scrutiny on cost. Building Schools for the Future

programme, the schools were very expensive to build a matter is one

of the reasons why the project ended. We have got to get value for

money. We also touched in the report on fairness. Given the

challenges the politicians... We hear this in the discussion already.

Politicians are battling to so, it is difficult, challenging, but we

are being fair. Is that the key to the argument? If they can convince

us that is the case, just to take one example about the PFI hospital.

We have been worried for years that all we are doing is leaving the

costs to our children and grandchildren. He said that

yourself. The new private finance, I do not know enough about it to

know if it is going to safeguard the interests of our children or

penalise them. The Labour leader of Sandwell Council was there singing

the praises of the government announcement. That was a moment to

treasure. The devil is going to be in the detail. When the plans come

forward... This is an early stage and we do not have detail.

enshrines the public interest to a greater extent. If it helps us get

to a place where we can build the Birmingham Metropolitan Hospital,

that is something that we want to see. I have to say no government

can claim to be behaving in a fair way when it comes to difficult

decisions on the economy if one of their central policies has been a

tax cut for millionaires. Ordinary people are paying more money.

issue about benefits. We have got to make it right that people are

better off in work. Let us not forget that under the last

government benefits increased at twice the rate of average earnings.

We have got to rebalance the economy. We have 1.2 million more

jobs and the private sector. We are changing the mix between the

private and public sector. The private sector is now coming

forward with the jobs and that is where the growth will come from.

That needs the infrastructure like improvements to the motorways.

Jaguar Land Rover, we are building the junction on the M40 in order to

service them. These are growth projects that will improve the

wealth of people throughout the country. Can I just pick up on one

thing about confusion that many people... Beryl lots of ideas and

percentages and images and warnings flying around -- there are lots of

ideas. There is a premium on communicating all of this. You are

professional communicators, as politicians. We are but we need to

get the message across that everyone is bearing their share.

The richest took the biggest burden out of the Autumn Statement. We

need to be patient. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I accept

it is further away because of the situation in the world economy

right now. Our biggest trading partner the eurozone... We are

going in the right direction. It would be a complete mistake to put

behind us the hard work we have got through over the past two years and

prejudice that. We have got to keep going. If the government wants to

communicate fairness, they should cancel the tax cut for millionaires.

That was Sunday very clear message that the burdens are going to be

placed on the whole of the country and shared fairly. They are not

prepared to do that which shows us that their priorities and ideology

is inherently wrong and deeply, deeply unfair. More wealthy people

have come back to the UK and now paying more income tax so the total

tax has gone up in that period. Every single independent for car

shows that it is middle and lower income families paying the cost of

the economic failure that the Chancellor has brought to us.

your diocese, you will Minister to over 2 million people who are going

through a tough time. We now know they're going to go through a tough

time for longer. What are the challengers for you? It is going to

be tough and over the weekend the commentators have said it may be

worrying leap half. That will work if people feel everybody is working

together -- worryingly tough. One in five mothers of certain income

brackets go without food each week to protect their children. That

obviously cannot be allowed to continue otherwise people will get

really angry. Socially with the situation they find themselves in,

they will get really angry. Very challenging times. Thank you for

taking on the challenges head on. A growing number of Midlands

councils say they'll pay their staff the living wage. That's more

than �1 an hour above the minimum wage. When it was introduced by

Tony Blair's government, the minimum wage was �3.60. It's now

�6.19. But more organisations are now committing to the principle of

a higher rate, as BBC Hereford and Worcester's political reporter Tom

Turrell explains. How much do you need to earn for a

basic standard of living? Increasingly, it seems the minimum

wage simply isn't enough. Elaine's one of more than 2,500 workers at

Birmingham City Council now receiving what's known as the

living wage. It's a policy brought in by the Labour-run authority

aimed at putting a bit more money in the pockets of its lowest paid

workers. I get �50 a month more. It is a lot of money. To some people,

in may not be. But to low-paid workers, �50 as a lot of money.

What is it all about? You could be forgiven for thinking we already

have a statutory minimum wage. You are absolutely right. It currently

pays �6.19 an hour. But now campaigners are pressing for

employers to pay a living wage of �7.45 per hour. That's an extra

�1.26. Almost 100 organisations nationwide have committed to paying

the living wage, many of them charities and local authorities. In

the past few weeks, Labour-run councils in Stoke-on-Trent and

Newcastle-under-Lyme signed up to it too. But the Conservative-

controlled council in Stafford rejected the idea saying it would

lead to job losses. At the moment, half of the eight councils across

Herefordshire and Worcestershire are looking at paying the living

wage. One of those is Wyre Forest. We want to pay our people pay fair

rate for their services. We want them to be able to live. We think

the living wage is absolutely the right thing to do. Here at Top Barn

Farm on the outskirts of Worcester, the Christmas spirit is in full

flow. Seasonal workers are in high demand. But much like when the

minimum wage was brought in 1999, the response from some businesses

to the living wage is less glad tidings, more bah humbug. Margins

are very tight at the moment. The Labour bill is very high. If we had

to increase that by 20%, it would have serious implications. I am not

sure what the future of growing our crops would be. The farm's grotto

is pulling in the punters. But if the living wage were to become law,

it could see staff pay rise by one fifth, something businesses like

this one feel is a gift they can't afford to give. A pay rise isn't

just for Christmas. Tom Turrell reporting. You have taken a bit of

a lead on this issue with a new diocese. We had a debate about

whether we should make it part of our policy and we rehearsed the

argument of the Christmas Tree growers and that we would have to

cut some of our staff if we were to do that. In the end, people decided

it was so important because of people suffering that we should go

ahead. So far, it has worked. you say it has worked, it has not

cost jobs. It has not. We have found the extra money. The genius

of the thing is that it is voluntary so it takes into account

the fact that some people are in different positions. I quite

understand the argument of the Christmas tree grow up. I hope he

will see colleagues managing to pay it and maybe next year he will be

able to pay the living wage. Is it implicit that the minimum wage is

insufficient? For an awful lot of people, yes. That is what we are

finding too. Parishes themselves are of course different. It is

quite different in Shrewsbury to the Black Country for instance. It

is important to have flexibility in the system. How do you reflect on

this? We have seen Labour councils doing it and some Conservative

council's thinking about it. It is highly desirable that people should

be paid more. My party believes in giving people incentives to work.

The higher the wages, the more incentive there will be to move on

to work from benefit. But I think we need to separate the private

sector from the public sector. In the public sector, it is a matter

for individual councils. We had two Conservative councils there with

different views. That is localism. Very interested in the Bishop's

view of the regional difference. The council has a budget to deliver

a service. The council countries do have a large number of people at

one wage rate. Provided the services delivered, it does not

matter. On the issue of the private sector, I ran a business for 25

years before becoming an MP. It would worry me immensely have

suddenly I had to find an extra 20% on my wage bill. Lots of small

businesses will see this proposal as something that is desirable but

it would be a massive struggle for them. That is the concern. Is it

affordable for many businesses when if you look back... George Osborne

is trying to cap everything up 1% as far as the public sector is

concerned that alone a 20%. I quite see that argument. But it is

amazing how much money they it still is in the system if people

are inspired to do something fresh and new -- how much money there is.

Let us leave each council to decide. I am a great believer in devolving

power down to local councils. This is an area where they can beat this

agreement. Yes, provided they are willing to go and chat with their

colleagues who take a different view. Your diocese joins an

interesting range of organisations who are interested in taking this

initiative. An interesting range of groups. Yes. I think we have found

in the last recession when there was a question about what we should

do about people in poverty. An interesting idea was the idea that

if you asked your employees if they would take a wage cut in order for

someone else to keep their job but a dive people are inspired, they

did deeper into their pockets. Now our regular round-up of the

political week in the Midlands in 60 seconds, with BBC Radio

Shropshire's political reporter Liz Roberts.

They're no mugs in the Potteries. Less than 24 hours after it was

announced the Duchess was pregnant, commemorative ware rolled off the

production lines. Two weeks ago, our exclusive

investigation revealed what became of land once owned by Advantage

West Midlands. Now the issue's been taken up in Parliament. I wonder if

the Chancellor is aware of the recent BBC investigation into the

fate of �107 million worth of assets. He is the backbencher's

backbencher of the year. Congratulations to Hereford MP

Jesse Norman for picking up the award. Meanwhile, after 20 years as

an MP, Labour's Bob Ainsworth revealed to BBC Coventry and

Warwickshire he'll stand down at the next election.

And more tea vicar? Supporters of women Bishops in the Diocese of

Hereford are wearing aprons to services today saying women

shouldn't just be associated with A witty protest by the women in

Hereford. Where are we going with women bishops? Can you envisage

yourself appointing a woman bishop? I hope so. I think it would have

been better if the rent for the aprons instead of women.

ultimate in Liberation -- if the men. The question that we were

divided over his had to protect the very small minority but significant

minority who are against it. That is what we have got to work on next.

We will see what the lawyers allow us up to do and I hope we can make

progress this year. There is some wriggle room in this, you are

suggesting? The lawyers will tell us. I was very disappointed we were

not able to go ahead in July and then last month. I hope desperately

we will be able to after Christmas. There is lurking in this debate

political issues about how to protect minorities. Mike is not

always right. I think this is a matter for the Church rather than

for politicians. But politics is about getting a message across and

I think in the choice of the way they are going about this they have

done so with a sense of humour. It means we are talking about the

protest in no way we might not have done. The notion that the gentleman

might join them with an apron on is a fund one and one that will

certainly attract people's attention. -- a fund one. They have

not wasted much time making pottery. There are lots of ways of boosting

the economy. The entrepreneurial spirit is there. Staffordshire, the

creative county, why not? Final word about bob Ainsworth. It would

be a great shame to see him go. I have seen lots of very senior MPs

and it has been an honour to work with him. That is where we have to

leave it. My thanks... My thanks to Mark Pawsey MP and to