Browse content similar to 06/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And in-out EU | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
referendum before the general election? We talk to the Tory rebel | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
demanding one next year, that is our top story. As government ministers | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
prepare to decide how the press should be regulated, what will be | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
the impact of this week's row should be regulated, what will be | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
between the Daily Mail and Ed Miliband? | :00:57. | :01:05. | |
In the Midlands, missing the train peoples faces?! | :01:05. | :01:17. | |
In the Midlands, missing the train in England was like in the county | :01:17. | :02:01. | |
He will try to force a vote in the October. Home Secretary Theresa | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
He will try to force a vote in the was asked about his plans on the BBC | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
earlier this morning. I think he has got it wrong, I think what we need | :02:11. | :02:18. | |
to do is to negotiate the settlement with the European Union and then put | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
that to the people me to decide whether to be in or out. Is this a | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
flea bite or a real threat? I think the next election, a Conservative | :02:29. | :02:38. | |
Party that will be offering people that renegotiation, a new settlement | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
people in and in or out referendum. And what the amendment possibly | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
could do, as James Wharton, who And what the amendment possibly | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
putting the Referendum Bill through Parliament has said, is it could | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie joins us now from Millbank studio. | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
Good morning. If the referendum would be held next October, it would | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
have to be an in-out question based the status quo? There wouldn't be | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
time for a full renegotiation. I disagree. By having a referendum in | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
2014, it gives us 12 months to renegotiate, but it kick-started | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
negotiations, because the European Union, if they wish us to remain | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay, | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for | :03:57. | :03:58. | |
ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is successful. | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
You right in the Mail on Sunday Minister's hand if it is successful. | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
wrote for that piece. What I am You are saying that the British | :04:32. | :04:39. | |
people are not convinced. Look, there are too many uncertainties | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election, | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
I hope we will, they may not be convinced the renegotiation will be | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
good enough, that there will be convinced the renegotiation will be | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
referendum. Do you trust David That is why we need to bring the | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
referendum forward, there is time to negotiate, and we tidy up the issue | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
that has been hanging around for too long. Do you trust David Cameron to | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
deliver a referendum in 2017? I Minister, and of course I trust | :05:07. | :05:16. | |
deliver a referendum in 2017? I referendum? There as only variables | :05:16. | :05:17. | |
in between. What I am doing with referendum? There as only variables | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
this amendment, is to try to be referendum? There as only variables | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
is that Parliament and every MP referendum? There as only variables | :05:24. | :05:25. | |
the opportunity decide whether they want to be sure of a referendum | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
forward with proposals. If they European Union leaders to come | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving us | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
more border control and control closer trading harmony, giving us | :05:56. | :05:57. | |
our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
happen - if we have a referendum in happen - if we have a referendum in | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
negotiations to be kick-started happen - if we have a referendum in | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you, | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was unlicensed troublemaker of the | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or | :07:06. | :07:07. | |
not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition | :07:28. | :07:29. | |
publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition | :07:29. | :07:38. | |
would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
say. Thanks for joining us, good luck with this continuing struggle | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
with your conscience! I will move the seat around and addressed the | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with | :07:56. | :07:57. | |
him. I think what this confirms party managers must be furious with | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed. | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
They do not take him seriously? No, is not as if the James Wharton bill | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes. | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
next Parliament. My understanding of theoretically impossible and that | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
all the future government would theoretically impossible and that | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
Cameron's plan for a referendum bill. He does have a point that | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
nothing like as likely to happen... dangerous. The problem for David | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
his MPs, ignore this. It may well be significant number of Labour MPs do | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
not turn up, and then what you have Conservative backbenchers, and in | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
that war you might well find that through, and then the Prime Minister | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
think he is a Labour mole, that Ed Miliband, so you would be looking | :09:41. | :09:49. | |
what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
has told us he could not sleep at conscience. We could send him some | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
hear you say that, this is a crisis conversations in corridors, quite an | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
operation to get letters into Graham Brady, he said to have letters, | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
operation to get letters into Graham 46, but at the moment this campaign | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
is being run by Lieutenant of Adam They are disaffected and not happy | :10:34. | :10:44. | |
under David Cameron's leadership. There is a whole army of them! I am | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
pleased he has outmanoeuvred the awkward squad, and now James Wharton | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
is saying, you're going to kill awkward squad, and now James Wharton | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
episode is it will unify a large Conservative Party behind David | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
Cameron. On what they hope is a settled position. We still hope | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
Cameron. On what they hope is a be talking to John Prescott, who is | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
you want to buy a house? Can you afford the mortgage repayments but | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
not the 20% or 30% deposit the mortgage provider is demanding from | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
you? The Government says it has mortgage provider is demanding from | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to buy, | :11:31. | :11:38. | |
re-emergence of 95% mortgages, remember them?! But is the policy | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
really good for home-buyers or the British economy? Here is Giles. | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
Never mind who lives in a house British economy? Here is Giles. | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government would | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to be able to | :11:53. | :11:54. | |
without putting down a crippling like many more people to be able to | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
without putting down a crippling amount of money as a deposit, and in | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two | :12:04. | :12:04. | |
been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early. | :12:04. | :12:25. | |
Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up | :12:51. | :12:58. | |
time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
banks and building societies. And a housing prime mover. You cannot | :13:18. | :13:26. | |
get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples in | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
our country who have good jobs, decent incomes, they could afford | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
the mortgage payments but they failure in our banking market. So | :13:33. | :13:42. | |
Jonathan, but I guess for you this is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
main impact of this scheme will is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
to push up prices, who does that benefit? Mostly rich and all the | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
people who own their houses. Plus the banks, of course, because it is | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want to buy a house in | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says it | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
the future. Moreover, it is a bit not OK to borrow to finance schools | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
or roads, but it is fine for the effectively, in order to guarantee | :14:11. | :14:23. | |
housing market. 2.3 million? I do not think Help to Buy covers that. | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
But enter a would-be buyer, will they now be seeing a plethora of | :14:27. | :14:34. | |
help to buy mortgages? In a word, no. David Cameron has brought the | :14:34. | :14:41. | |
months, and banks were not ready at that stage. Two banks have committed | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group, so lenders like | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme, but even once | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
the scheme is up and running you are probably find 95% mortgages on the | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
high street because of the guarantee the government is offering. People | :15:00. | :15:10. | |
might say this is how we got into a mess in the first place. Why would | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
the government want to make those products available then now? It | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
the government want to make those more what investment banks were | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
doing in the background that caused performed extremely well through the | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
depths of the downturn. Is this performed extremely well through the | :15:28. | :15:35. | |
game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
but this has enabled me to make best to save over the last few years | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
first purchase. How frustrating best to save over the last few years | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
it just renting? Very frustrating, you are throwing away money hand | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
over fist, and now I can take that enthusiasm raises a question back at | :15:53. | :16:01. | |
the flat. If you are looking for a 95% mortgage, you don't really care | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term | :16:14. | :16:21. | |
economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the opportunity to | :16:25. | :16:32. | |
off is that home-buyers might be so their own homes that they reward the | :16:32. | :16:32. | |
Government with the vote, while their own homes that they reward the | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
the same time the Government tries to sidestep consequences that such a | :16:35. | :16:52. | |
Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
It is said by the critics that this scheme will cause a housing bubble. | :16:57. | :17:04. | |
Where is the evidence? House prices are more varied. Housing not just in | :17:04. | :17:18. | |
London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
will pump up house prices, it will therefore houses will become even | :17:22. | :17:31. | |
more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy. | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
average until they are 38 years real problem, it takes people on | :17:44. | :17:55. | |
property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any | :18:08. | :18:23. | |
have had a record this year, 12 months to right now, the record | :18:23. | :18:33. | |
have had a record this year, 12 the last ten years. These are not | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
the statistics I have seen, but the last ten years. These are not | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
new supply is coming up. It is starting to creep up. We don't see | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
deposits are so high is because secondly the Government has passed | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
laws to make the banking system secondly the Government has passed | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
prudent, telling them to put more wrong. Now suddenly the Government | :19:08. | :19:16. | |
is not happy with the outcome of its own rules and is trying to create | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
these subsidies to circumvent the rules it has put in place. It is not | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
a subsidy. Don't forget banks have to pay a charge in order to take | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
part in this loan scheme and that the... You are guaranteeing the | :19:32. | :19:39. | |
money. Yes, but the fear is worked out on a commercial basis. The | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
taxpayer is protected. Why? You out on a commercial basis. The | :19:42. | :19:49. | |
guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
response of the crash. They made the distressed test on people applying | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
for mortgages much higher and you twice... So it will not be like | :20:03. | :20:13. | |
these self certification mortgages handed out in America that caused | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit like that but the banks are rightly | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big chance house | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
prices could fall if interest rates eventually, so they are demanding | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
bigger deposits. The Government eventually, so they are demanding | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
circumventing this is being passed eventually, so they are demanding | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
on to the taxpayers which is why it is a dangerous policy. Instead they | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
should be massively accelerating Planning permission is much easier | :20:46. | :20:54. | |
to get now, we have seen a 49% increase in planning permission | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
to get now, we have seen a 49% a new building over the last year, a | :20:58. | :20:59. | |
huge increase. In the figures I a new building over the last year, a | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
recently, they showed new start a new building over the last year, a | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
the 12 months to the autumn were only about 110,000 which is the | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
figure you inherited, which was only about 110,000 which is the | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are third | :21:17. | :21:24. | |
up on the time last year. You have relaxation of planning laws and | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
up on the time last year. You have other policies the Government put | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
into effect last year to take effect and it is coming through now. I | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
agree, if we weren't building more houses, if the construction sector | :21:36. | :21:42. | |
advantage of the increased demand, there would be a risk. David Cameron | :21:42. | :21:49. | |
says you are snob and it is only snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They | :21:49. | :21:57. | |
don't have the bank of mum and dad, people like that will finally get on | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
the housing ladder. That is complete nonsense. We need a sustainable | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
housing market where there is a large amount of construction, like | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
in the 1930s for example, where large numbers of proper family homes | :22:11. | :22:19. | |
were being built for people. House prices were pushed down and people | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
could afford houses. You are now encouraging people to take out a 95% | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
mortgage, I thought that was a bad idea, so supposing interest rates go | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford. | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
95% mortgage, if you can afford interest rates that I cannot afford. | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
repayments, you will be fine. What happens when interest rates rise? | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
They have got to rise a lot before you get into trouble. People are | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
already affording rent which is you get into trouble. People are | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into | :23:09. | :23:16. | |
this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
this scheme unless you can afford the moment. The Conservatives should | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
limelight last week but there was an row between Ed Miliband and the | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the claiming that Ed Miliband's Father | :23:33. | :23:41. | |
Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
with the caption, grave socialist. Ed Miliband the right to reply on | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
printed an editorial alongside it published an fair headline. It also | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
reporter had gate-crashed a private memorial service for Ed Miliband's | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now apologised, | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the hard look at the way his papers | :24:15. | :24:23. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the run. This comes a week before a | :24:23. | :24:31. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the Joining us now from Hull, John | :24:31. | :24:31. | |
Prescott. Does this row between Joining us now from Hull, John | :24:31. | :24:42. | |
reinforce the case for tough, new certainly influences the opinion | :24:42. | :24:49. | |
about that but that is more of Paul Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
about that but that is more of Paul while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:53. | :24:54. | |
sure my complaints were nothing while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
do with press regulation and he while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
right. This argument is not about politicians and media people, it is | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
about ordinary people that love politicians and media people, it is | :25:07. | :25:16. | |
and dealt with. All of these cases affected individual people and they | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
are the ones that need to have justice in this matter. Next week we | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
will be hearing whether the Privy Council will be reporting on the | :25:26. | :25:33. | |
proposal to replace it. Are you agreeing then that what the mail did | :25:33. | :25:49. | |
with its Miliband article was a matter of judgement? Yes, and the | :25:49. | :26:02. | |
with its Miliband article was a conclusion that the relationship | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
between the press, the police and politicians should be governed, | :26:05. | :26:13. | |
between the press, the police and proposal given by half the press | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
industry that that does not meet the Leveson requirement and I suspect | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I hope | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
the Privy Council this week will will because it is not consistent | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
with the Leveson report which the Prime Minister said he supported. | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went through | :26:34. | :26:40. | |
the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their disabled | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote about | :26:45. | :26:46. | |
Ralph Miliband? It probably is, than what the Daily Mail wrote about | :26:46. | :26:56. | |
couldn't defend that. I have had Haven't we all? Yes, but we are | :26:56. | :27:09. | |
editors who acts unilaterally. Paul Dacre is running this thing in the | :27:09. | :27:23. | |
judgement and some accountability which the press have accepted the | :27:23. | :27:33. | |
old PCC is no good. They are playing for time because if they reject | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
old PCC is no good. They are playing this week there is 12 months until | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
you can consider a parliamentary alternative and then you are near | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
the election and you begin to bully the leaders. That is how they have | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
been successful in putting off recommendations. Maybe my memory is | :27:48. | :27:58. | |
fading but did you or anybody else in the Labour Party object to the | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't know about it. I would just say | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't is wrong if that is what they did. | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
As you said, you have the same position when they go through your | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
rubbish bins, I think that is wrong. We have Leveson set up by the Prime | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
Minister to look at the cultures and practices and the unilateral action | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
of editors and he came forward with Parliament under a compromise of the | :28:25. | :28:39. | |
frankly, but we have agreed to go frankly, but we have agreed to go | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
Government set up in charge at the same time rushed through the press | :28:44. | :28:51. | |
box? It looks like a fix, like they are using the Royal Charter as a | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
means of delaying everything. They have now said they are going to | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
introduce their own independent accountability. We know Alistair | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
Campbell and Ed Miliband's officers accountability. We know Alistair | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
are working closely on the assault of the Mail. What is the endgame for | :29:14. | :29:24. | |
this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to | :29:24. | :29:39. | |
account. When Ed Miliband rang me it regulation, he wanted the argument | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband regulation, he wanted the argument | :29:44. | :29:57. | |
of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband after Paul Dacre's head? No, he | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband stay there. It is like with Murdoch, | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband we were not attacking him but what | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
extent, what they are doing about politicians who can look after | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
themselves. We know, with the bad cases he had to deal with, they | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
might get libel action, which the press say, but they pretty well | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
destroyed their lives. That is about judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
got good judgment? I would say no, Thank you for joining us, he did not | :30:25. | :30:32. | |
even have to go to the BBC studios, we sent a truck there for him. What | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
is the endgame in this? Whether we sent a truck there for him. What | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
Labour Party is trying to make this an issue press regulation are not, | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
this is where it is going. We have the criminal trial involving Andy | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
Coulson coming up, the Privy Council discussing press radiation before | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
question is, what is political unfashionable view, is that the | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
total at yum elated political impact of the Leveson story over the past | :30:59. | :31:12. | |
those who do care believe that all parties are roughly complicit in | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
being too close to editors and proprietors. You said that Adam | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
Afriyie was a Labour mould, with a smile. Is the Daily Mail also a | :31:19. | :31:26. | |
Labour mole? This has been a dream for Ed Miliband, I took on Murdoch, | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
I am taking on the energy companies and now the evil Daily Mail! I | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
think... I should say I used to and now the evil Daily Mail! I | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
for the Daily Mail, but when they printed the right of reply, they | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
surrounded it with a big two fingers up at Ed. If they had not done | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
surrounded it with a big two fingers that, they would not be in this | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
position. The poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows 72% think | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
the Daily Mail was wrong and backed Mr Miliband's demand for an apology. | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
If you come to define and your dad, people are naturally going to do | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory conference, the | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
media loves covering itself, here we are doing it again, this has been a | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
dream for Mr Miliband. The political significance of this is that David | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
Cameron said in the House of Commons that he wanted to try to find some | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
common ground between the three party Royal Charter and the | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
so-called press industry version. What the Daily Mail has done is | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
ensured that the Prime Minister is not going to be able to do that. | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
What is going to happen this week is that the press Royal Charter has to | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
be considered first, and that will probably be rejected. The Privy | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
Council will reject it. Then the three party Royal Charter will come | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
up, but meanwhile the press will set up their own regulatory body because | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
the Royal Charter is not a proper statutory underpinning, they will be | :32:51. | :32:52. | |
able to go ahead with that. There statutory underpinning, they will be | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
will be the legal basis for the oversight of the oversight body, and | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
it will basically just be an ambassador that will not be | :33:01. | :33:07. | |
resolved. As you say, no-one much cares about this outside of the | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
profession and a few media watchers. But this has been great politics for | :33:10. | :33:18. | |
Ed Miliband. It is only great politics if he scores a great | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
victory. I take your view that people are cynical about it. But the | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
narrative is, I am the chap who stands up to vested interests. But | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
all those vested interests are people that you would expect a | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
left-wing politician to want to take on. It is also more significant | :33:36. | :33:45. | |
about who he has stood up for, and the person he has studied for is his | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
father. Maybe people thought of him as a Marxist, now they think of him | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
as war hero. He gets to the crux of matters, you know! You are watching | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
Hello. Our guest today have speaking to Godfrey | :34:01. | :34:22. | |
Hello. Our guest today have constituencies almost 80 miles apart | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
and they are both in Birmingham. Andrew Mitchell, Conservative MP for | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
Sutton Coldfield, four International development Secretary. 10,000 of his | :34:31. | :34:37. | |
constituents have signed a petition asking for independence from | :34:37. | :34:46. | |
Birmingham. Good to have you both with us. Andrew, I think we | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
understand that you feel you can't really comment directly on the | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
investigation into those events in Downing Street in September of last | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
year. Given it is over 12 months since all that happened, obviously a | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
considerable thing for you and your family, how are you coping? I should | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
not conceal that it has been an extraordinary difficult year and | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
taken a difficult toll on my family and on my family enemy. I have been | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
getting on with looking after my constituents in Sutton Coldfield and | :35:17. | :35:26. | |
I would like to express my deep gratitude for my friends who have | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
given me support through this difficult time. There has been a bit | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
of speculation about when this whole business will be over as it will | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
be. Is this something that is on your horizon? Lets wait and see to | :35:37. | :35:48. | |
see what happens. Richard, soon after the public prosecution said it | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
was not good enough, Ken MacDonald said it was not good enough that | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
Andrew and his family were being subjected to this long, drawn—out | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
enquiry process. Jack Straw, Labour backbencher jumped in. What would be | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
your view of this? It does seem to be taking an inordinately long time. | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
All of us in public life, we have all been through what Andrew has | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
been through, it is appalling to have this kind of thing hanging over | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
you and an inability to tell your side of the story in till it is all | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
finished. It has got to be brought to a conclusion as soon as possible. | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
Why Jack Straw, I would like to give any my support. Ken MacDonald also | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
said that this was an issue that went to the heart of the police | :36:33. | :36:42. | |
service, is that how you see it? It shows the way that political debate | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
goes. We have seen examples of that this week as well. All too often, it | :36:46. | :36:53. | |
gets personalised on people that it comes to allegations about what this | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
person has done or not done. Rather than concentrating on the issues. I | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
think, sometimes pressure groups are responsible for that. Often the | :37:01. | :37:07. | |
media, are responsible for that. I also have this day sometimes we —— I | :37:08. | :37:16. | |
say that we as politicians are sometimes responsible. After the | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
events of this week, we need to take a step back and look at the | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
political atmosphere of the country, because these things return | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
for people we represent. Zero Billy you welcome the support? Al A of | :37:27. | :37:36. | |
course, I agree. I agree that people should abstain from character | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
assassination and smears. Have you had time on your hands, have you | :37:41. | :37:49. | |
been kicking your heels? I have been busy looking after my constituents, | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
there are a raft of issues in Sutton Coldfield which are absorbing. | :37:53. | :38:04. | |
Including the petition for people to go their own way, to separate from | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
Birmingham. How seriously should we take that as a proposition? There is | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
a strong feeling in certain that the way in which 1974 Sutton Coldfield | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
ceased to be a royal borough and was put into Birmingham, was wrong. We | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
live with that history and the question now is whether or not we | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
can get back the original parts that we lost to Birmingham in a | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
meaningful way. I am absolutely in favour of a referendum, I am in | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
favour of now, a negotiation of what parts could be repatriated to Sutton | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
Coldfield. I'm against a proposal which would be costly for Sutton | :38:44. | :38:51. | |
Coldfield and would not return. I asked my constituents to look | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
carefully before making a decision. We'll see. Coming up, why England's | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
in the county with no direct rail link to London is missing its train. | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
Three years after Shrewsbury and Telford vanish from the capital was | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
's timetable, is planned return remained stuck. We will have more on | :39:08. | :39:16. | |
this later. We all know what ever closer union means think Stevie —— | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
thanks to the European Union. Two of our police force are about to | :39:22. | :39:30. | |
experience and that that themselves. Many wonder if it is the new | :39:30. | :39:39. | |
stepping hitting mute budget Tigers. Achieved constables of Warwickshire | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
and West Murthy are facing a future of closer cooperation. Budgets are | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
being squeezed, tough decisions, taken. We have got training and the | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
two forces are collaborating infiltrating and firearms. They say | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
is the best way, appalling resources. After all, this is an | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
alliance driven by cuts are not choice. This is the minds at work, | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
officers from both forces sitting side by side for a training session. | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
Does not feel like a cost—cutting exercise, it feels like designing | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
the best service we can in taking the best of both. The alliance has | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
been formed to save £30 million of the next two years. By 2015, it will | :40:17. | :40:24. | |
mean a total of 661 post going, 227 police officers. They'll be more | :40:24. | :40:33. | |
mobile police stations. The police Federation say it reflects the new | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
fiscal realities. In an ideal world, we would have a properly funded | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
police service, that is not the case. The alliance is a way that we | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
can maintain policing as much as possible but still save some of the | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
money that is necessary. Inevitably the alliance has increased | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
regulation about a fuel merger in the future. We think there needs to | :40:56. | :41:03. | |
be a debate about what the future of the alliances. Should we merge in | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
the future? Is a summit we want to consult the public on, because it is | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
an important step. Are they out of step with the public they are | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
serving? Is interesting that both of those | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
chief constables say they are confident can deliver high quality | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
policing out of this, despite what Kat Mackie said is delivered and | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
driven by cuts bite rather than choice. You wonder why this has not | :41:27. | :41:37. | |
happened earlier. Anyone in the police services face by it all up, | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
when they are operating in a climate of savage cuts, they want to | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
reassure Republicans are the best they can and maybe this is one way | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
they think they can do. They are the experts. They are confident. They | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
don't want to worry people or make them feel like they are not going to | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
be safe. It does not alter the reality that if you look, my police | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
force is not either of those too. It is West Midlands. There have been | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
huge cuts, we're talking a thousand police officers that have been lost. | :42:05. | :42:12. | |
I can already see the effect of some of that squeeze in my constituency. | :42:13. | :42:22. | |
Any police others can look at what they can merge and whatever is | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
right. It does not alter the essential arithmetic that the cuts | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
are too severe, particularly in our region. In the West Midlands, 667 | :42:28. | :42:40. | |
posts, including 200 police officers by 2016. Savage cuts, driven by | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
numbers and efficiency. In Sutton Coldfield, where the West Midlands | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
force looks after my constituents are there has been a reduction in | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
the amount of money spent. Crime has fallen enormously in the last two | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
years. Sutton Coldfield is now the second safest town in Britain. I | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
page a view to the police in Sutton Coldfield who have been —— it paid | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
tribute to the police in Sutton Coldfield who have been able to | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
deliver the results, good policing, and doing so with West resources. —— | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
less resources. We need to make sure they are our adequate resources for | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
policing. I think the merger of the two forces which you have | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
identified. The logic which says we can deliver the same quality service | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
for the public with less bureaucracy, through the merger, can | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
we drive out inefficiencies. That is a good thing to do. Shropshire is | :43:36. | :43:42. | |
the only county in England with no direct rail link to London. Half a | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
million people live their at they have had to change at | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
Wolverhampton, Birmingham or Stafford to get to the capital. Now | :43:50. | :43:57. | |
inspired by encouraging noises by the government of —— a vigorous | :43:57. | :44:05. | |
campaign is underway. Can people see the light at the end of the tunnel? | :44:05. | :44:13. | |
We have been finding out. Gone but not forgotten. The Wrexham, | :44:13. | :44:19. | |
Shropshire service lasted less than three years. It was a throwback to | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
the golden age of railway, going through the countryside to | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
Shrewsbury to the capital in three hours. Popular with the few that use | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
that. Is there and at the man for a direct service? I would really | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
welcome it, I would use the service, we used it when we had a direct line | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
and I miss it now. It would save a lot of time and hassle getting to | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
London early in the morning. Without having to go the night before. It | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
would be an advantage, a direct line, to get people down there, | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
quicker it is a of a drag. Changing at Wolverhampton. The editor of the | :44:56. | :45:04. | |
local paper a grade and took action. We have launched an online petition | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
which has attracted more than three dozen signatures in just over three | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
weeks which is phenomenal. We have got several hundred responses from | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
coupons in the paper supporting the campaign. A superb reaction. It | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
illustrates the strength appealing that people have on the issue. —— | :45:19. | :45:29. | |
strength of feeling. I want to see improvements, the introduction of a | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
new service from London to Blackpool. And to Shrewsbury. I | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
would hope that both of these new services would be introduced from | :45:38. | :45:44. | |
December 2013. Voter has obliged. It is, with a plan that would provide | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
Shrewsbury with two direct services a day to London. There is a major | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
sticking point. Network rail. It is undergoing major work to improve the | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
congested West Coast Main line and says there is not enough room for | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
any more trains. At least not yet. The number of trains and passengers | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
in the last ten years has doubled. The line being easier means that it | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
is harder for us to maintain punctuality, we have less win those | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
to get on the track and maintain the track. One thing we are looking to | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
do is looking to improve in performance on the line. Critics say | :46:20. | :46:31. | |
that network rail should managers network better end should not use | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
its own inefficiencies to prevent new services. Network rail, as a | :46:33. | :46:40. | |
national body is not accountable enough to Parliament nor the people. | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
We have to ensure that there is a greater level of scrutiny as to how | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
they operate. So far, network rail have been backed by the office for | :46:51. | :46:57. | |
now like —— rail regulation. It is keen to keep things moving on time. | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
The transport Secretary's December deadline looks likely to suffer | :47:01. | :47:07. | |
serious delays. As public pressure mounts, there is new hope the | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
service could be back on track by the spring. Liz Roberts reporting | :47:10. | :47:18. | |
from this is reliant. We also join today by one of our leading | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
commentators on the rail industry, Tony Miles. Columnist on modern | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
Railways magazine you say you have unrivalled contacts in the operating | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
company. Your reputation precedes you. Network rail who have knocked | :47:30. | :47:43. | |
back virgin's applications do a full service. Everybody seemed to be | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
fighting each other. Is a bit of a double whammy, the last year, | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
firstly, network rail has been threatened with fines for not | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
improving train punctuality, £1.5 million for every 10th of a percent | :47:54. | :48:00. | |
that it does not meet its target. That is about £73 million worth of | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
fines. It has been threatened with fines for not improving the state of | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
the network. The last thing it wanted was an additional eight | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
trains a day altogether on its network which it said would probably | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
add half a percent of the delays every day. Shrewsbury and Telford | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
are suffering because of the lack of coherence in the various sections of | :48:21. | :48:29. | |
the rail? Exactly. The West Coast mainline is the most congested rail | :48:29. | :48:35. | |
line in Europe. It is busy, mixed traffic, 70 mph freight trains and | :48:35. | :48:45. | |
110 mph passenger trains. Finding a slot for a handful of trains a day | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
has challenged network rail. A year ago it said there was only one path | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
left. Virgin wanted it and then they said no. What Machover has been a £9 | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
billion upgrade of the West Coast rail line, why can't we find more | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
slots for trains for Telford and elsewhere and Shropshire? Bit of | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
smoke and mirrors when the government proclaims it was | :49:11. | :49:20. | |
finished. The given under budget, very little work was done south of | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
rugby and know what was done south of Watford. Now, next year, there is | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
going to be some lengthy coaches over Watford —— closest to Watford. | :49:27. | :49:38. | |
It does seem to be a sorry saga of disconnections and a lack of | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
accountability. Unelected quangos. Everybody at arms length. Is no way | :49:43. | :49:52. | |
to run a railway. The rail industry does not hold together in the way | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
that it should. We may have a political disagreements about some | :49:55. | :50:01. | |
of the things that lead up to the way it was privatised. Apparently it | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
was a good thing. We are where we are now. The fact is there is a lack | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
of capacity on the railway, there are problems of connections. Through | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
two Shropshire as we have heard. This brings into focus the whole | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
question of high—speed two which is a big issue for all of us. Wherever | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
we are. Politicians it seems to me, Andrew, we have seen and will —— and | :50:22. | :50:28. | |
McLauchlan saying we would like to see services to Shropshire. We're | :50:28. | :50:35. | |
not going to see that, be? He is announcing a service in the | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
Midlands, we have a transport secretary that comes from the | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
Midlands, that is a good thing, what he is announcing in terms of | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
high—speed two is absolutely fundamental for the economic | :50:44. | :50:51. | |
well—being of the Midlands. It is not about speed. It was sold as an | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
issue of speed between London and Birmingham. It is not about that, it | :50:55. | :51:02. | |
is. A rebellion in the Tory shires going to election? Of course this | :51:02. | :51:10. | |
track is going through constituencies of members of | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
Parliament, in the interests of Britain, we need a new North—South | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
line. The capacity reasons there are nearly 4000 people standing when | :51:18. | :51:20. | |
they reached London from Birmingham. The capacity is running out. Ed | :51:20. | :51:30. | |
Balls had comments to call it off. We need to take seriously the report | :51:31. | :51:36. | |
from the public accounts committee. We know the cost is running. No | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
responsible government government would ignore that. It is true that | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
we have got to do something about our rail network. Capacity is an | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
issue and also remember that high—speed two is about our | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
connectivity. Lots of Greater London but to the rest of the country. The | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
meat, getting the rest of the country connected with Birmingham | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
and Birmingham connected to the south better, that is the real | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
prize. High—speed two offers a way of doing that. Tony, is high—speed | :52:02. | :52:08. | |
to the panacea? Thinking about Shrewsbury and elsewhere, the | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
argument is that by moving a great swathe of services between the | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
high—speed city routes in the new line, there will be less capacity | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
for shrews been elsewhere. Absolutely, the final word on | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
Shrewsbury is that the could get its services from next May. Meanwhile, | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
if we are going to rely more on the railways for things like freight and | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
commuting and so on were slower trains and more stops will run, we | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
have got to take the long distance passengers elsewhere and I was | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
disappointed initially that Patrick McLauchlan talked about journey | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
times and I'm delighted he has finally realised it is about making | :52:42. | :52:49. | |
space. Thank you. Now for the round—up of the political week in | :52:49. | :52:58. | |
the Midlands. In 60 seconds. House prices went up in the region by 2% | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
last year, hardly a bubble. In Birmingham, they rose 6%, in | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
Sandwell, they fell. 3%. 600 more jobs could be lost at Worcestershire | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
county council, the authority needs to make an additional £9 million of | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
savings. 800 jobs have already gone. The home secretary praised the | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
response of British Muslims following the fatal stabbing of | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
Birmingham grandfather Mohammad Salim and a series of bomb plots | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
targeting mosques in the Black Country. Again, the terrorists have | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
failed. The response from reddish Muslims was a quiet resolve. More | :53:32. | :53:41. | |
than 750 schools were affected as teachers here joined those in the | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
East of England and Yorkshire, striking in a dispute over pay and | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
conditions. In a serious case review into the death of Birmingham toddler | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
Kiana Williams said that social workers and police and health | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
workers had collectively failed to prevent his death. Now we hear the | :53:57. | :54:06. | |
children put it minister has put Birmingham city council with a final | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
warning —— warning of further action. We have two Boehringer MPs | :54:10. | :54:19. | |
with the same. Andrew, giving the idea of the government taking over, | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
that is logically the way that it is heading? It is another awful story. | :54:22. | :54:29. | |
I would much rather it was sorted out here in Birmingham, this is | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
where the issue has arisen, we must ensure that it is sorted out. If it | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
cannot be sorted out here, the government is right to say they | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
would take over responsibility. The head of children's services in the | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
city says that the system is frail and he is concerned that children | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
may not be consistently safeguarded around the city. It underlines the | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
point that this must be sorted out and it must be sorted out now. | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
Richard, we had case review is one after the other, 23 of the last | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
seven years, not a scrap of difference. History is repeating | :55:02. | :55:10. | |
itself. The death of any child is a tragedy. For the families, is a | :55:10. | :55:17. | |
tragedy. You are right, it is a tragedy. You are right, it has | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
happened far too many times in Birmingham. We have heard time after | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
time that things will be different, this time I am pleased that the city | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
council and the safeguarding board have held their hands up here, they | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
have said it can't go on like that. I have asked three meeting, between | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
them and MPs to try and sort out what is to be done. Part of that | :55:33. | :55:39. | |
solution has got to be getting more trained social workers in the | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
Birmingham. But as part of the problem. One final thought, part of | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
the talk and the interpretation of this. It indicates —— indicator | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
discover Birmingham, its size, makes a dysfunctional in this kind of | :55:52. | :55:59. | |
context. What is your view? It is true, the sheer size of the issue, | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
the number of cases they are handling, is enormous. We should try | :56:02. | :56:11. | |
and get a system right. That manages the system in Birmingham. S there is | :56:11. | :56:18. | |
something in that, strategically, things are to be sorted out in | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
Birmingham. If you're going to intervene properly in family crisis, | :56:20. | :56:27. | |
you can only do that locally. Unless agencies are empowered and have the | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
funds to do, we will have more of these tragedies. Lets leave it there | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
we will keep watch. Thank you to Andrew Mitchell and Richard Burton. | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
A quick word of the programmes on BBC Coventry and Warwickshire. Any | :56:39. | :56:46. | |
oaks will have live broadcasts on the high—speed rail route. Change at | :56:46. | :56:56. | |
Birmingham International for all points north. That is about it for | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
all of us here. We'll be back next points north. That is about it for | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
We are getting into a discussion of more affordable homes needed, but we | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
have no time. Andrew, back to you. Our next guest is no stranger to | :57:07. | :57:20. | |
controversy, a former UKIP MEP he recently lost his party's whip after | :57:20. | :57:42. | |
a series of outbursts including receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land' | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
and joking that a group of UKIP women who didn't clean behind their | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits in independent but remains a UKIP party | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
member. Here's a flavour of recent events in the political life of | :57:53. | :58:03. | |
Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly be giving £1 million a month... | :58:03. | :58:13. | |
Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails within 12 hours, only 47 were not | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
agreeing with me so you are the within 12 hours, only 47 were not | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
that is out of touch. Everybody knows me, a bit like the Marmite | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
joke, they love me or they hate knows me, a bit like the Marmite | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
but I have always told me like it is. I made a joke and said that | :58:27. | :58:38. | |
women who did not clean behind the French were sluts and everybody | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
laughed along, including the women. I have had hundreds of e-mails, | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
saying, God Almighty, can't you I have had hundreds of e-mails, | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
a joke any more? I am long in the correctness and I understand UKIP | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
have moved on and they are doing well, and I wish them well. This, | :58:56. | :59:10. | |
with no black faces on it. You are picking people out for the colour of | :59:10. | :59:16. | |
with no black faces on it. You are their skin? You disgust me! Perhaps | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
the way they are doing things now is disgrace me. We are joined now with | :59:19. | :59:27. | |
a suitable distance between us by the independent MEP for Yorkshire | :59:27. | :59:34. | |
and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You said this weekend that you have | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You be a complete sociopath to be in | :59:39. | :59:48. | |
politics, are you a sociopath? No, I am just an ordinary bloke from the | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
rugby club likes to tell it as it is. I did not come into politics to | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
rugby club likes to tell it as it save my country from the clutches of | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
the awful, evil... That is why I am in politics, and that is why I | :00:00. | :00:06. | |
member, and I will still be voting ability... Do you accept that your | :00:06. | :00:14. | |
conference? We were both born in ability... Do you accept that your | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
same year, we are too old to worry about regrets. Let's look forward | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
and see... Never mind the year I was born, what is the answer to my | :00:27. | :00:35. | |
country and intent to do the best I independent for my country, and | :00:35. | :00:42. | |
country and intent to do the best I re-elected. They are the only game | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
in town, the only party that will get as out. Shouldn't you have been | :00:45. | :00:54. | |
liability? You hijacked the party conference. That is a matter of | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
perception. We have heard nothing in the last two years but it is a | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
one-man band, a Nigel Farage party, and I can make a joke at a fringe | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
meeting and collapse the whole thing. This doesn't say anything | :01:06. | :01:14. | |
Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or | :01:14. | :01:23. | |
me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable | :01:30. | :01:43. | |
force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has | :01:43. | :01:56. | |
been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote | :02:06. | :02:13. | |
getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
of that. We are not here to win friends amongst the liberal elite, | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
and Godfrey's problem was that he manifesto. Don't you need to reflect | :02:30. | :02:39. | |
that you are too outrageous, too politically incorrect even for UKIP? | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
Well, you see, to a certain extent I politically incorrect even for UKIP? | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
have been gagged on other subjects. I am a libertarian, I wanted to | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
have been gagged on other subjects. about flat tax. I thought David | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in the times on drugs, and I have been | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
gagged to speak about any of these things because they are not part of | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
it, so I tend to speak about other things. Maybe they have outgrown | :03:01. | :03:10. | |
machine, and they have to get rid of the Victor Meldrew wing. You might | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
have a point, but I am speaking the Victor Meldrew wing. You might | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
you from Hull, and if you look at Barnsley, and very recently in | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
Scarborough and Whitby in the buy legends, 25%, so how you see things | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we see it appear in Yorkshire. You | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we like the one who was sitting in | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of | :03:35. | :03:35. | |
course it isn't, we are getting bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
of the vote in by-elections, of course it is not. Boy, wouldn't | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
of the vote in by-elections, of main parties and the establishment | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
love to see that! But I am sorry, it is not happening. Will you stand as | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
an independence against UKIP in is not happening. Will you stand as | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
European elections? Almost certainly elections were next week, I could | :03:55. | :04:08. | |
do not think I will go that route. Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
again? We do not know, probably Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
but I shall certainly be trying Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
help UKIP as best I can. You both share a flat, I understand, in | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
Brussels, neither of you clean behind the fridge. Other than the | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
fact that the place is probably quite murky, you have got a chance | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
to talk to each other and get back into his good graces, haven't you? I | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
am sure we will be having a beer before the month is out. So Godfrey | :04:34. | :04:44. | |
take it? For those of you who were shrugged! Thank you very much for | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
joining. A great pleasure. I will have to move my own share, you do | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
not have the sea Jeremy Paxman doing that! Nobody votes for UKIP because | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
they think they are a smooth, slick, absence of PR polish is the reason | :05:00. | :05:07. | |
for their popularity, so these are skirmishes are not a problem, and | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
more than that, Godfrey Bloom does make Nigel Farage look better. Even | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
in that clip from Andrew Marr, he juxtaposition with someone like | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
Godfrey Bloom than he has done before. I mean, he did hijacked | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
Godfrey Bloom than he has done conference, it was a disaster, they | :05:25. | :05:26. | |
got tonnes of publicity but not conference, it was a disaster, they | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
kind they wanted. But you have to journalists. I thought he was sexist | :05:29. | :05:37. | |
long before anyone else, he used to have an incredible page on his | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
website entitled Godfrey Bloom: Misogynist, and the proof that he | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
photographed with a girls' rugby characters in politics. He does | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
photographed with a girls' rugby Nigel Farage look better, but is sin | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
was to say things you said before but to ruin the party conference. It | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
sounds like he is coming back. A beer in Brussels and he will be | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
sounds like he is coming back. A on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a | :06:06. | :06:06. | |
beer in that built the Chechen, on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
sounds like it may be what the deal is that he comes back into UKIP | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
sounds like it may be what the deal does not stand as an MEP at the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
European Parliamentary elections. -- in that built the kitchen. It is | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
right to say the electorate are sophisticated and they know what | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
this party is for, what characters Godfrey Bloom said for people to | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the | :06:37. | :06:37. | |
three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
probably do it in the European elections and give them first place. | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making | :06:44. | :06:55. | |
The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that | :06:56. | :06:56. | |
he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need | :07:00. | :07:01. | |
Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
ministerial reshuffle on the cards, that is the rumour in Westminster. | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster. | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet? | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet? | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
businesses in Britain, there are not boardroom. If you look at politics | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
in Britain, there aren't nearly enough women around the Cabinet | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
table. So I think, in every walk of life, whether it is the judiciary, | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
whether it is politics, business, there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to probably has a point. The prime | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I | :08:14. | :08:14. | |
think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin | :08:25. | :08:33. | |
college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool, | :08:33. | :08:43. | |
but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive. | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive. | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City, | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls | :09:23. | :09:33. | |
you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this | :09:33. | :09:41. | |
now, a tonne of bricks will fall on him. He has got no excuse not to | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
promote women, because the 2010 intake was disproportionately female | :09:48. | :09:56. | |
in terms of talent. The question of the Tories and the struggle with | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
women voters is a very deep and historic one. You have to remember | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
that for most of the post-war period they had an advantage electorally | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
amongst women voters. Many times Conservative government without | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
amongst women voters. Many times women of this country. This began to | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
change in the mid-1990s, and the question is, why has that happened? | :10:14. | :10:21. | |
personalities at the top are now much more hostile to women, or less, | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
personalities at the top are now Brent doubled to female voters? | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
personalities at the top are now is such a deep historical trend | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
personalities at the top are now I do not think one reshuffle will | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
change it. -- or less competent civil. The English party conference | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
season is over, do you share the consensus view that Ed Miliband | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
season is over, do you share the out best of the three party leaders? | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
I think I probably do, but his overall approval ratings are still | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus ten. And the more the recovery seems | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus to take place, and some of the | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
latest figures are quite amazing, they certainly surprised me, you | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
wonder whether Labour's tactic is right to put all their eggs into the | :11:07. | :11:14. | |
living standards basket. I was looking at car sales, which are | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
booming. If people start to feel better, and they don't yet, but | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
booming. If people start to feel they were, it is tougher to go on | :11:22. | :11:30. | |
about living standards. George Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
making a great thing about living standards, but then they say under | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
their breath, this is global forces, outstripping wage increases. And | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
you're absolutely right, as the economy improves, presumably that | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
will be dealt with, but Miliband's argument will be that there are | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
people suffering, and even if the economy recovers, they will still | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
forces, it is difficult to blame the government for that. Body being | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
noticed now, there is nothing worse for the leader of the opposition | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
than to be not noticed. -- but he is being noticed now. It seems that he | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
in many ways has set the political weather. Look at the number of | :12:11. | :12:12. | |
references to the Labour leader weather. Look at the number of | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
Mr Cameron's speech. And in Mr Obama's speech on a similar topic, | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
living standards. Was the mentioning Ed Miliband?! Oh, he was using the | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
same language, he has not gone that far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
be more worried now, because Labour through the kitchen sink at their | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
conference. They came out with the biggest policy announcements they | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
could, compulsory apprenticeships, the energy freeze on prices, and it | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
generated a poll boost which has fizzled away within ten days. I | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
generated a poll boost which has not know where they go from here. | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
What is significant with Ed Miliband conference beaches, he has set the | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
one nation Britain, and the problem with those speeches is people say, | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
they are fine, they are academic, but what does it mean? What you | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
they are fine, they are academic, now is an intellectual framework | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
that translates into policies. The polls to watch are not the ones | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
after the conferences, but at the end of the month when it has also | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
pulled down. They will tell us where we are going. We will have to go | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
ourselves now. Thank you to our guests. The Daily Politics will | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
ourselves now. Thank you to our back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two, | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
and I will be back on BBC One this time, same time, next week. If it is | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:37. | :13:39. |