10/11/2013 Sunday Politics West Midlands

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on

the war path over pay day loans, your energy bill and what he calls

the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls

don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's

Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage

won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be

talking to the UKIP leader. And In the Midlands: Should some of our

Police and Crime Commissioners become even more powerful? A year

after the PPC elections come calls for them to have a bigger say in the

courts and prisons. It is free choice. In London, the

row over the super sewer rumbles on. And with me, fresh from their

success at yesterday's Star Wars auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan

Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick

Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. First, the talks with Iran in

Geneva. They ended last night without agreement despite hopes of a

breakthrough. America and its allies didn't think Iran was prepared to go

far enough to freeze its nuclear programme. But some progress has

been made and there's to be another meeting in ten days' time, though at

a lower level. The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had this

to say a little earlier. On the question of, or will it happen in

the next few weeks? There is a good chance of that. We will be trying

again on 20th, 21st of November and negotiators will be trying again. We

will keep an enormous amount of energy and persistence behind

solving this. Will that be a deal which will please everyone? No, it

will not. Compromises will need to be made. I had discussions with

Israeli ministers yesterday and put the case for the kind of deal we are

looking the case for the kind of deal we are

interests of the whole world, including

interests of the whole world, the world, to reach a diplomatic

agreement we can be confident in in this issue. This otherwise will

threaten the world with nuclear proliferation and conflict in the

future. The interesting thing about this is that it seems

future. The interesting thing about prepared to go far enough over the

Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor it is building. The people who took

the toughest line - the French. France has always had a pretty tough

line on Iran. They see it as a disruptive influence in Lebanon I

am reasonably optimistic a deal will be done later this month when the

talks reconvene. Western economic sanctions have had such an impact on

Iran domestic league. They have pushed inflation up to 40%.

Dashes-macro domestically. The new president had a campaign pledge

saying, I will deal with sanctions. I actually think, by the end of this

year, we will see progress in these talks. Should we be optimistic? The

next round of talks will be at official level. The place to watch

will be Israel. The language which has been coming out of there is

still incredibly angry, incredibly defensive. They do not want a deal

at all. Presumably John Kerry has to go away and tried to get Israel to

be quiet about it, even if they cannot be happy about it. They

cannot agree to a deal which allows the Iraq reactor with plutonium

heavy water. You do not need that with a peaceful nuclear power

programme will stop that is why the Israelis are so nervous. If there is

an international deal, Israel could still bomb that but it would be

impossible. The French tactics are interesting. It says the French

blocked it in part because they are trying to carry favour with Israel

but also the Gulf Arab states, who are really nervous about and

Iranians nuclear capability. Who is that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a

story saying that Pakistan is prepared to provide them with

nuclear weapons. You are right about Saudi Arabia. They are much more

against this deal than Israel. Who is Herman van Rompuy's favourite

MEP? It is probably not Nigel Farage. He plummeted to the bottom

of the EU president's Christmas card list after comparing him to a bank

clerk with the charisma of a damp rag. And he's been at it again this

week. Have a look. Today is November the 5th, a big celebration festival

day in England. That was an attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament

with dynamite and destroy the Constitution. You have taken the

Dahl, technocratic approach to all of these things. What you and your

colleagues save time and again you talk about initiatives and what you

are going to do about unemployment. The reality is nothing in this union

is getting better. The accounts have not been signed off for 18 years. I

am now told it is 19 and you are doing your best to tone down any

criticism. Whatever growth figures you may have, they are anaemic.

Youth unemployment in the Mediterranean is over 50% in several

states. You will notice there is a rise in opposition dashed real

opposition. Much of it ugly opposition, not stuff that I would

want to link hands with. And Nigel Farage joins me now. Let me put to

you what the editor of the Sun had to say. He says, UKIP will peak at

the European election and then it will begin to get marginalised as we

get closer to 2015 because there is now that clear blue water between

Labour and the Tories. What do you say to that? There may be layered

blue water on energy pricing but on Eastern Europe, there is no

difference at all. When Ed Miliband offers the referendum to match

Cameron, even that argument on Europe will be gone. The one thing

that will keep UKIP strong, heading towards 2015, is if people think in

some constituencies we can win. I cannot sit here right now and say

that will be the case. If we get over the hurdle of the European

elections clearly, I think there will be grounds to say that UKIP can

win seats in Westminster. You are going to run? Without a shadow of a

doubt. I do not know which constituency. The welcome I got in

Edinburgh was not that friendly Edinburgh is not everything in

Scotland. I think we have a realistic chance of winning those

elections. If we do that, we will have the momentum behind us. You

might be the biggest party after the May elections. The National front is

likely to do very well in France as well. They have won the crucial

by-election in the South of France. Have you talked about joining full

season in Parliament? The leader has tried to take the movement into a

different direction than her father. The man she beat, to become leader,

actually attended the BNP conference. The problem she has with

her party and we have with her party is that anti-Semitism is too deep

and we will not be doing a deal with the French national government. You

can guarantee you will not be joining such groups. I can guarantee

that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's accept that the pro-Europeans

exaggerate the loss of jobs that would follow the departure of

Britain from the UK. Is there no risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk

whatsoever. There is no risk at all. There have been some weak and lazy

arguments put around about this We will go on doing business - go on

doing trade with Europe. We will have increased opportunities to do

trade deals with the rest of the world and they will create jobs The

head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi and CBI many other voices in British

business, when they all expressed concern about the potential loss of

jobs and incoming investment, we should just ignore them. With

Nissan, the BBC News is making this a huge story. The boss did not say

what was reported. He said there was a potential danger to his future

investment. They have already made the investments. They have built the

plant in Sunderland, which they say is operating well. We should be

careful of what bosses of big businesses say. This man said they

may have two leaves Sunderland if we did not join the euro. I do not take

that seriously. As for the CBI, they wanted us to join the euro and now

they do not. Even within the CBI, there is a significant minority

saying, we do not agree with what the CBI director-general is saying.

The former boss of the organisation is saying we need a referendum and

we need a referendum soon. It depends on the renegotiation. There

is not the uniformity. What we are beginning to see in the world, is,

manufacturing and small businesses are a lot more voices saying, the

costs of membership outweigh any potential benefit. If you look at

the polls, if Mr Cameron does repatriate some powers and he joins

with Labour, the Lib Dems, the Nationalists in Scotland and Wales,

most of business, all of the unions to say we should stay in, you are

going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75, the circumstances were exactly the

same. Mr Wilson promised a renegotiation and he got very

little. The establishment gathered around him and they voted for us to

stay in. I do not think that will happen now. The scales have fallen.

We do not want to be governed by Herman Van Rompuy and these people.

These people are Eurosceptic but they do not seem to feel strongly

enough about it that they are going to defy all the major parties they

vote for, companies that employ them, unions they are members of. I

am absolutely confident there will be a lot voices in business saying,

we need to take this opportunity to break free, give ourselves a chance

of a low regulation lowball trader. -- global trade. In 1970 53 small

publications said to vote yes. I am not contemplating losing. The most

important thing is to get the referendum. If UKIP is not strong,

there will not be a referendum. Earlier in the year, your party

issued a leaflet about the remaining sample parents being able to come to

this country. The EU will allow 29 million Bulgarians and remaining is

to come to the UK. That is technically correct but we both know

that is not the case. It is an open door to these people. Why take the

risk? By make out there are 29 million people? I stand by that

verdict. It is an open door. 29 million are not going to come. They

can if they want. Also 29 million people from France can come. After

these countries have joined, we will do another leaflet saying that Mr

Cameron wants to open the door to 70 million people from Turkey. That is

scaremongering. I would not say that. We have a million young

British workers between 16 and 4 without work. A lot of them want

work and we do not need another massive oversupply in the unskilled

labour market. Why did you have such a bad time on question Time this

week? The folk that did not buy your anti-immigration stick. Do you think

that group of people in the room was representative of the voters of

Boston? What would make you think it was unrepresentative? When the

county council elections took place this year in Boston, of the seven

seats, UKIP won five and almost won the other two. I don't think that

audience reflected that, but that doesn't matter. How an audience is

put together, how a panel is put together, on one programme, it

doesn't mean much at all. It shows that your anti-immigrant measure

doesn't fly as easily as you hoped it would? The opinion polls which

will be launched on Monday that we are conducting and nearing

completion, they show two things. Firstly, an astonishing number of

people who think it's irresponsible and wrong to open the doer to

Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and crucially, a number of people whose

vote in the European elections and subsequent general elections may be

determined by the immigration issues. This does matter. It would

be the perfect run group the European elections in May for you if

a lot of Bulgarians and remainians flooded in. You would like that to

happen? I think it will happen. Whether I like it or not, it will

happen. You think it will be good for you, it will stir things up If

you say to people in poor countries, you can come here, get a job, have a

safety net of a benefits system claim child allowance for your kids

in Bucharest, people will come You are ready with the arguments

already? You will be disappointed if only ten turn up? Whether lots come

or not we should. Taking the risk and yes, we are going to make it a

major issue in the European election. Let's leave it there.

Thank you very much, Nigel Farage. The summer of 2013 was not good for

Ed Miliband, with questions over his leadership, low ratings and

complaints about no policies. He bounced back with a vengeance at the

Labour Conference in September, delivering a speech which this week

won the spectator political speech of the year aword. In that speech he

focussed on the cost-of-living and promised a temporary freeze on

energy prices. Even said this. The next election isn't just going to be

about policy. It's going to be about how we lead and the character we

show. I've got a message for the Tories today. If they want to have a

debate, about leadership and character, be my guest And if you

want to know the difference between me and David Cameron, here is an

easy way to remember it. When it was Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the

side of Murdoch. When it was the tobacco lobby versus the cancer

charities, he took the side of the tobacco lobby. When the millionaires

wanted a tax cut as people pay the bedroom tax, he took the side of the

millionaires. A come to think of it, here is an easier way to remember

it. David Cameron was a Prime Minister who introduced the bedroom

tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who repeals the bedroom tax There we go,

that will go down with the party faithful on Tuesday. There will be a

debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman,

joints me now. Let's begin with the bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy.

Nearly 11% of people who've come off Housing Benefits all together after

their spare room subsidy was stopped, isn't that proof that

reform was necessary? No. I think that the whole way that the bet room

tax has been attempted to be justified is completely wrong. What

it's said is that it will actually help take people off the waiting

lists by putting them into homes that have been vacated by people

who've downsized by being incentivised by the bedroom tax so

basically if you are a council tenant or Housing Association tenant

in a property with spare bedrooms, then because the penalty is imposed,

you will move to a smaller property. That is the justification for it.

But actually, something like 96 of the people who're going to be hit by

the bedroom tax, there isn't a smaller property for them to move

into. I understand that. Therefore they are, like the people in my

constituency, if they have got one spare bedroom, they are hit by 700

a year extra to pay and that is completely unfair As a consequence

of people losing the subsidy for their spare room, they have decided

to go out and get work and not depend on Housing Benefit at all?

11% of them. What's wrong with that? Well, they are going to review the

way 2 the bedroom tax is working. What is wrong with that? But that's

not working. That's the result of Freedom of Information, 141 councils

provided the figures, 25,000 who've come off benefits, of the 233,0 0

affected, it's about 11%. These people were clearly able to get a

job was having the Housing Benefit in the first place? But of course

the people who're on the benefits who're not in work are always

looking for work and many of them will find work which is a good

thing, but for those who don't find work, or who find work where it s

low-paid and need help with their rent, it's wrong to penalise them on

the basis of the fact that their family might have grown up and moved

away and so you have either got to move out of your home, away from

your family and your neighbourhood, or you've got to stay where you are

and, despite the fact that you are low-paid or unemployed, you have got

to find an extra ?700 a year because of your rent. So it's very unfair

The Government that was commissioning independent research

on the impact of this work change and welfare policy, particularly on

the impact on the most vulnerable, some of which you have been talking

about there, shouldn't they have waited until you have got the

independent research, that independent investigation before

determining your policy? No. In fact, the Government should have

waited until they'd have done their independent research before they

bought into effect something and imposed it on people in a way which

is really unfair. They could have known. Why didn't you wait? What

they could have done is, they could have asked councils, are people

going to be able to Manifest into smaller homes if we impose the

bedroom tax and the answer from councils and Housing Associations

would have been no, they can't move into smaller homes because which

haven't got them there. They should have done the evaluation before they

introduced the policy. We are absolutely clear and you can see the

evidence, people are falling into rent arrears. Many people, it's a

terrifying thing to find that you can't pay your rent, and some of the

people go to payday loan companies to get loans to pay their rent. It

is very, very unfair. The justification for it, which is

people will move, is completely bogus. There aren't places for them

to go. On the wider issue of welfare reform, a call for the TUC showed

that voters support the Government's welfare reforms, including a

majority of Labour voters. Why are you so out of touch on welfare

issues, even with your own supporters? Nobody wants to see

people who could be in a job actually living at the taxpayers'

expense. That's why we have said that we'll introduce a compulsory

jobs guarantee, so that if you are a young person who's been unemployed

for a year, you will have to take a job absolutely have to take a job,

and if you have been unemployed as somebody over 25, there'll be a

compulsory thing after two years of unemployment. So if you have been on

welfare two years? So the main issue about the welfare bill actually is

people who're in retirement who need support. We have said for the

richest pensioners, they shouldn't have to pay their winter fuel

allowance. My point wasn't abouts the sub stance, it's about how you

don't reflect public opinion -- substance. The Parliamentary aid

said the political backlog of benefits and social security is "not

yet one that we have won. Labour must accept that they are not

convincing on these matters,". Well, redo have to convince people and

explain the policies we have got and the view we take. So, for example,

for pensioners, who're well off we are saying they don't need the

Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me saying to you and us saying to

people in this country, we do think that there should be that

tightening. For young people, who've been unemployed, they should be

offered jobs but they've got to take them. So yes, we have to make our

case. OK. The energy freeze which we showed there, on the speech, as

popular. The living wage proseles have been going down well as well.

Why is Labour's lead oaf the Conservatives being cut to 6% in the

latest polls? Ed Miliband's own personal approval rating's gotten

worse. Why is that? I'm not going to disdues ins and outs of weekly

opinion polls with you or anybody else because I'm not a political

commentator, but let me say to you the facts of what's happened since

Ed Miliband's been leader of the Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New

Labour councillors, all of those... But you're... All those who've won

their seats against the Conservatives or the Liberal

Democrats and no, Andrew you don't always get that in opposition. In

1997 after Tony Blair was elected, the Tories carried on losing council

seats. Exceptional circumstances and these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in

the polls. You were six. The economy grew at an annual rate of 3% in the

third quarter just gone. Everybody, private and public forecasters now

saying that Britain in this coming year will grow faster than France,

Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow faster. Your poll ratings are

average when the economy was flatlining, what happens to them

when the economy starts to grow Well, I've just said to you, I'm not

a political commentator or a pundit on opinion polls. We are putting

policies forward and we are holding the Government to account for what

they are doing and we think that what they did opt economy pulled the

plugs from the economy, delayed the recovery, made it stagnate and we

have had three years lost growth. I understand that, but it's now

starting to grow. Indeed. If you are no political commentator, let me ask

you this, you anticipated the growth, so you switched your line to

no growth to this is growth and living standards are rising. If the

economy does grow up towards 3% next year, I would suggest that living

standards probably will start to rise with that amount of growth

What do you do then? We have not switched our line because the

economy started to grow. All the way along, we said the economy will

recover, but it's been delayed and we have had stagnation for far too

long because of the economic policies. We have been absolutely

right to understand the concerns people have and recognise that they

are struggling with the cost-of-living. Sure. And we are

right to do that. What kind of living standards stuck to rise next

year? -- start to rise next year. I hope they will. For 40 months of

David Cameron's Prime Ministership, for 39 of those, wages have risen

slower than prices, so people are worse off. I understand that. You

will know that the broader measurement, real household

disposable income doesn't show that decline because it takes everything

into account. Going around the country, people feel it. They say

where's the recovery for me. Living standards now start to rise? If that

happens, what is your next line There is a set of arguments about

living standards, the National Health Service, about the problems

that there is in A, which caused -- are caused by the organisation. I

can put forward other lines. All right. Let me ask you one other

question If no newspapers have signed up to the Government-backed

Labour-backed Royal Charter on press regular lace by 2015 and it looks

like the way things are going none will have, if you are in power, will

a Labour Government legislate to make them? They don't have to sign

up to the Royal Charter, that's not the system. What the Royal Charter

does is create a recogniser and basically says it's for the

newspapers to set up their own regulator. They are doing that. My

question is... Let me finish. If they decide to have nothing to do

with the Royal Charter that was decided in Miliband's office in the

wee small hours, will you pass legislation to make them? The

newspapers are currently setting up what they call... I know that,

Harriet Harman. Just let me finish. OK. Because the newspapers are

setting up the independent Press Standards Organisation. Right. If it

is independent, as they say it is, then the recogniser will simply say,

we recognise that this is independent and the whole point is

that, in the past when there's been skaen deals a tend press have really

turned people's lives upside down and the press have said OK we'll

sort things out, leave it to us then they have sorted things out but

a few years later they have slipped back, all this recogniser will do is

check it once every three years and say yes, you have got an independent

system and it's remained independent and therefore that is the guarantee

things won't slip back. Very interesting. Thank you for that

That's really interesting that if they get their act right, you won't

force the alternative on them. We want the system as set forward by

Leveson which is not statute and direct regulation. I want to stick

with the press because I want to ask, is this a British institution

or an out-of-date image for a by gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been

dividing the nation since it first appeared way back in 1970. That s 43

years ago. Harriet Harman's called for it to be removed, so we sent

Adam out to ask whether the topless photographs should stay or go. We

have asked people if page three should stay or go. Page three. What

do you think? Nothing wrong with it at all. I think it is cheap and

exploits women. It is a family newspaper. Should it stay or go Go.

I will look like the bad guy. It should go. You have changed your

mind. It is free choice. Girls do not have to be photographed. Old men

get the paper just for that. Know when your age does that? Not really.

Dashes-macro know what your age Page three girls, should they stay

or go? I am not bothered. There are other ways of getting noticed. Page

three of the Sun newspaper every day, there is a woman with no top

on. We got rid of that about 40 years ago in Australia. I am not in

favour of censorship. It has been long enough. It can stay there. What

is wrong with it? We want to encourage children to read the

newspapers. I do not want my children to look at that. It is

degrading. Do you think we will see the day when they get rid of it

Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can turn this into some kind of a

shelter. It is tipping it down. I think the council should do

something about their car parks Mother nature, the human body. It

should stay. Is some people like it, that is fine. I have nothing against

it. You know what has surprised me, lots of women saying it should stay.

Maybe they are seeing it as empowering. As I have a baby

daughter in there, I am happy to see it go. Imagine my grandad opening up

his paper and they're being my bats! It should go. There is nothing wrong

with it. He wants it to go. What about people who think that page

three should be banned? Idiots. Do you know a girl called Lacey, aged

22, from Bedford? Good luck to her. I do not know her as a person that I

have heard she is nice. What about her decision to be on page three?

Nothing to lose. Do you think she has made Bedford proud? That is not

hard. What have we learned? More people want page three to stay down

for it to go. Most people do not really seem to care, do they? You

have heard a range of views. I am not arguing it should be banned. I

have not argued for it to be banned but I have disapproved of it since

the 1970s. You do not think it should be banned? I do not think

there should be dictating content but I do think, if you arrive from

outer space in this country in 21st-century Britain, and asked

yourself what was the role of women in society... To stand in their

knickers and nothing else, I think women have more to aspire to than to

be able to take their clothes off in public. The sun no longer has the

circulation, or the political importance, that it had in the 1980s

when page three was at its height. Aren't people just voting with their

feet anyway? The market is sorting this out. Half the number of people

buy it now than they did 20 years ago. Until the time the sun does not

have page three any more, I am entitled to my view that it is

outdated and wrong. I am happy to establish that you do not want to

ban it. What should happen? Should people boycott the paper? I have

never implied or said it should be banned. I have always been

forthright. Should people boycott the paper? I have not called for a

boycott. The women's movement, of which I am part, and this is not

about politicians censoring the press. I am part of the movement

which says women can do better than taking off their clothes and being

in their knickers in the newspapers. Why don't you do something about it?

I am doing something about it by saying it is outdated. I am not

doing anything more about it. Should people buy the paper as long as

there is a page three? Would you like to say to viewers, as long as

page three is in the sand, you should not buy it? Dashes-macro be

Son. I am saying, wake up to what the role of women in society should

be, which is more than page three. If they changed it in Australia,

which is where Rupert Murdoch came from, why can they not change it in

this country? You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just

over 20 minutes... I'll be talking to man leading the

Hello once again from the Midlands. I'm Patrick Burns. And we're joined

today by an MP who hopes she's in only the early stages of her career

at Westminster. And an MEP who knows he's in the final stages of his,

shuttling between the Midlands, Brussels and Strasbourg. Malcom

Harbour will stand down at the European elections in six months

time, after 15 years as a Conservative West Midlands MEP.

Whereas, Valerie Vaz, became Labour MP for Walsall South at the last

election. She's on one of those increasingly high`profile Commons

Committees, the Health Select Committee. A very warm welcome to

you both. First it was "Plebgate," now maybe

it's "Policegate." Or even, if you visit some of Westminster's darker

nooks and corners, "Plodgate!" The spotlight is increasingly shifting

from Andrew Mitchell to the issue of trust in the police themselves. Two

of the officers who represented the Police Federation at that meeting

with the Sutton Coldfield MP in his constituency last year, were

recalled by the Home Affairs committee last week. One of the two

again rejected repeated opportunities to give the apology

the MPs were asking for. Do you wish to take this opportunity to

apologise to Mr Mitchell and his family? As Mr Hinton has done.

Again, I cannot apologise for something I haven't done, but I do

recognise a disproportionate distress that it has caused his

family, and I would urge that the report and the investigation is

concluded as speedily as possible. So you're not wanting to apologise

to Mr Mitchell and his family? I am saying that I recognise the stress

that has been caused and I think it would be best if... I think the

answer is no, you do not want to apologise. Valerie's brother Keith

there, very much the Grand Inquisitor. Valerie, isn't this

eroding the question of trust in the police? I think this is just a

sample of what is going on generally. The good thing is that

this has actually come out, but I don't think you can generalise

across the whole board about the way the police are going. We have to be

careful about what we say on this particular issue, because of the

IPCC getting involved. I wonder whether what we are witnessing is a

tribal thing, a closing of ranks in the police, and maybe something

similar on the political side? Not at all. When you saw the chief

constables, they gave their own opinion about what was happening and

how to move forward. They were not all singing from the same sheet for

the same notebook. Is there something tribal in this, Malcolm? I

was surprised when I saw the fact that the police Federation had gone

to Sutton Coldfield in the first place. That was something of a set

up. I feel more for Andrew Mitchell than anyone else. The real

astonishment is that it has taken so long to deal with what apparently

ought to be a simple matter. All the evidence appears to be available.

There is video evidence and so on. There is some concern that there is

something going on unexpectedly. I do agree with Valerie, though. Do

you think Mr Mitchell should be recall to high office? I do. He is

an outstanding politician. He was extremely competent. I saw Valerie

nodding as well. Coming up a little later in the programme. Almost a

year since five Police and Crime Commissioners were elected in our

part of the country, should some of them have extra powers, over the

courts and the prisons? We'll have more on this in a few minutes.

It hasn't even been approved yet, but representatives from hundreds of

businesses were in Birmingham during the week to learn about the bidding

process for contracts to build the High Speed Rail link. The

conference, hosted by HS2 Limited coincided with a warning from

London's Mayor Boris Johnson. "Get on with it," he said, and build the

line from London to Birmingham and the North. Joanne Writtle has more

on this for us. HS2 isn't popular with everyone but

if it goes ahead there will be plenty of work on offer to get it

built. The numbers are staggering in terms of the opportunity and the

money about to be spent. If we can work on a small percentage, there

will be a massive impact on our business. It represents a good

opportunity that doesn't come every day in the West Midlands. He was at

a conference in Birmingham organised by HS2 Limited and attended by

around 800 businesses, all keen to learn more about the ?10 billion

worth of contracts which could be up for grabs. It came as the PM again

underlined his commitment to the project at the CBI. Thousands of our

fellow people are standing every day. We need to build another West

Coast mainline. And he was backed by the Mayor of London. He thinks we

could learn a thing or two from big projects from the Chinese. We take

an unconscionable length of time to get our project going. You go to

somewhere like China, they bang in a High Speed Rail line in two years.

Labour is still being more cautious with its policy of qualified support

` but support nonetheless. The Labour Party cannot and will not

give the government a blank cheque. Some argue that the business case

for HS2 doesn't stack up. But try telling that to the people hoping to

build it. On that business case, we keep

having it managed down, Malcolm. The bang you get for your buck is being

managed down. The opponents of HS2 say even those attractions are

slating those figures. If you read the latest report, if anything, the

economic elements are even more compelling. The decision has been

made, let's talk about the jobs. I think the government is absolutely

right to alert people to the opportunity. We need to start now,

beginning companies to develop the skills, training, the competences to

this High Speed Rail line. This is only the second one we have had, and

what we don't need is for people who have got lots of experience coming

in. It is a great opportunity the government is taking. The Black

Country is a little removed from the route itself, you're closer to

Staffordshire. I think it will be very good for the West Midlands,

that we have to be careful. We need to learn lessons, 95% of the budget

of crossrail was spent within the UK. So long as we get the government

accountable about how much money is being spent, the costs are now

racked up to about ?73 billion, so long as they come back to Parliament

and say this is what we're spending, making sure that local people get

the vocational qualifications, it will be a good thing for the region.

We have heard from Ed Balls, talking about his real concern about their

being no blank cheque, not offering David Cameron a blank cheque. David

Cameron says there never has been. We do have to be careful about

costs. They keep going up. We want the government come back to

Parliament and say this is how it is going to cost. We have clearly shown

in this country we have the ability to manage big projects on time and

on a low budget. Look at the Olympics. That was started in the

last Labour government and continued through to the Conservatives. I

would rather see that sort of cooperative approach taking place

between Labour and the Conservatives. The speech from Ed

Balls doesn't seem to be related to reality at all. There are lots of

jobs now for the people working on the design and planning. We also

want to design the trains as well. What about Boris Johnson's point,

comparing us unfavourably with the Chinese. I think it is right that we

involve local people. I don't think Ed Balls was grandstanding. He was

right to say we need to keep a check on public money. Costs are

ratcheting up. The commitment is there and we have voted on it, so we

are committed. But you said... The business of making sure that the

parties can work together. They have, and I cite the example of

crossrail. Don't forget, the Chinese, they had the biggest major

high`speed train accident in the world. You can rush things. Thank

you very much. We have five of them. One Conservative. One Labour. And

three independents. They're the new heavy`hitters at the top of our

police forces. The Police and Crime Commissioners have now been in

office for almost a year. Labour's Bob Jones in the West Midlands, the

Conservative Matthew Ellis in Staffordshire, and the three

independents, Ron Ball in Warwickshire, Bill Longmore in the

West Mercia Force area and Martin Surl in Gloucesteshire. Our BBC

Shropshire Political Reporter Liz Roberts has been talking to Mr

Longmore about his first 12 months in office.

Training hard under the wing of West Mercia Police officers. These

teenagers have just been treated to some new kit paid for out of the

Police and Crime Commissioner's own pocket. If you look at how the boys

are dressed tonight, in professional equipment, they feel part of a team

and that is very important. Feeling part of a team, professionalism in

how they look, is critical to keeping them engaged. On a salary of

?75,000 a year, the Longmore has set aside ?20,000 out of his first year

for community groups and charities to bid for a slice of. So far 30

different organisations have benefited. And his focus on

community involvement is a key theme of his police and crime plan. I

represent the people, and I want to put `` the police to realise that

they serve the people. I want them to be friendly and helpful, so that

the people and the police can work together to create good and safe

communities. It's not been an easy ride. Bill faced two votes of no

confidence by local councils angry at the direct appointment of his

previous campaign manager to Deputy Commissioner. No laws were broken

and the votes weren't carried ` but the man behind one of them remains

critical. He is not a figure who commands respect, and he is not a

figure that you would go to if you want something done. It is best to

go to the senior police officers who are in effect making the decisions

that matter. Bill Longmore says his critics should judge him on his

achievements. I don't try and put myself up as something I am not.

People take me as they see me. I have always been very proud of that

fact. The PCCs are responsible for controlling the police budget,

setting targets and holding the Chief Constable to account. Bill

Longmore has a weekly chat with the chief, even if they're in different

counties. David Shaw gave us his take on the new way of working. I am

absolutely clear that if I don't step up, the Commissioner will be on

top of me. It is very businesslike, very professional, friendly when it

needs to be, but it gets the business done. Bill Longmore says

increasing public perception and understanding of the commissioner's

role has been a huge focus for his first year in office. This he says

has helped lay the foundations to tackle what lies ahead.

Liz Roberts in West Mercia. Much of the original thinking about Police

and Crime Commissioners was driven by the centre`right research

organisation, Policy Exchange. They are now calling for some PCCs to be

given extra powers over the courts and, perhaps most significantly, the

prisons. Max Chambers is the Head of Crime and Justice at Policy

Exchange. Some PCC is, but not all. What powers are you recommending? At

the moment they have lots of powers in the police industry. Given that

these and is `` individuals have a mandate to cut crime, cutting crime

is not only about policing, it is also about the courts, the prisons,

probation services. We are suggesting that it would make sense

for a PCC to be given a wider array of powers to integrate those

services together and deliver a bigger impact on crime levels. We

are not suggesting that it be done all at once, but that the time is

taken now, over the next two years. Which ones would we be talking

about? The ones who want to do it. If a PCC has a good business case

and a good plan for integrating services and for why they should

have more control, they should be able to put their hand up and say to

the Ministry of Justice, I would like to do this. Here is my plan.

That should be the way it should happen. What is implicit to this is

a shift of influence away from Whitehall. Especially for bringing

fire in as well. We have a culture in the justice system at the moment

of aspiration. We need more a culture of forgiveness, innovation

and for people to feel empowered to try new things. Decentralisation is

an important part of that. We talking about higher and fire? It

would make an important step. The problem is when we have these

election, the turnout was only 15%. If you are giving these people extra

powers, that is worsening that deficit? Turnout was disappointing

in that first set of elections. But actually, public awareness of the

roles is at 73%, which, if you compare that to the police

authorities, only 6% of people knew what they were had heard of them.

That will change over the next set of elections. But I take your point.

Widening of powers needs to be done gradually and sensibly. Valerie, a

few days ago, the independent police Minister said the issues around

democratic accountability were many. But he did not talk about scrapping

the Police and Crime Commissioner 's. Did that mean they would be safe

under Labour? They are under review at the minute. I am concerned about

powers when they haven't bedded down. The Labour Party is carrying

out a review of how they are functioning properly. There is only

one Police and Crime Commissioner, Tony Lloyd in Manchester, who has

suggested recall of police commissioners. My instinctive

feeling is that I think it is taking too much power away from the centre,

in the sense that while local people are involved, the reason more people

know about it, that seems to be wider function is `` what their

function is. We have heard that they want more. The real success is that

the commissioners are providing a local effect on policing. I come in

from the outside view, if you like, but that is my clear perception. The

police commissioners are visible, around the place. He survived a

no`confidence vote, accusations of cronyism. I think that has been an

exception. The public feel, I think, that they have somebody they can go

to to complain. One of the successes is that victims feel they have an

advocate in the police commissioner. A high`profile point of reference.

They elected a monkey somewhere in Hartlepool, didn't they? My

day`to`day work hasn't changed at all. Policing has not changed for

me, as an MP. So it hasn't made any difference, in that sense? The other

question is whether the relationships between PCC 's and

constables, whether there is a potential for dysfunctionality

question are ``? That challenge that PCC is providing two police forces

are good thing. What they have to remember is, is that the PCC's job

is to back the public, not to be an apologist or to defend the police

when their behaviour is wrong. That brings us on to the final brief

area. Police trust, this is a really big opportunity to deliver on the

mandate on behalf of the public to hold the police to account? It is

dangerous to have so much power in one person. You need to add the

accountability aspect to it. I wouldn't describe the powers of

being extreme at all. They are well calibrated in terms of the balance

of management at the top level. It is quite clear that the operational

decisions are taken by the operational management. Thank you

very much indeed. Now for our regular round`up of the

political week in the Midlands in 60 seconds. Brought to us this week by

our BBC WM Political Reporter Susana Mendonca.

Unite wants Barclays Bank to reconsider after announcing 350 jobs

cuts. They want close a call centre in Coventry.

A bungalow at Lith Hill, where novelist Mary Webb once lived, is at

the centre of a planning row. The owner wants to demolish it.

Shropshire Council will have the final say in this saga.

In a break with tradition, Environment Secretary and North

Shropshire MP Owen Paterson has written a warning letter to the

water companies saying, "If you're thinking of putting up bills this

year, don't." We want reduced prices, and we want to see this

investment coming in. We want them to be fair to their customers, and

most water companies will respect that and deliver, I think.

Conservative MP for the Wrekin Mark Pritchard is threatening to sue the

Daily Telegraph after it alleged he offered to set up business deals in

Albania for money. And Stratford's Tory MP Nadhim

Zahawi is feeling the heat. His expenses claim for nearly ?6,000 for

electric and heating oil at his constituency home is higher than any

other MP. And Nadhim Zahawi points out his

energy claims included ?2,000 from last year's billing period. He also

says they're significantly lower than the rental costs he used to

claim for his flat in Stratford, before he bought his house. Three

stories for the price of one, combining MPs expenses with energy

prices and, now, water bills. Do you think, Valerie, but they should pay

that money back? All MPs' expenses are processed. Turning to your 15

years in Europe, Malcolm, we cannot actually summarise 15 years in a

short time, at what are the standout experiences, the standout moments?

Having the privilege of becoming a committee chairman, the committee

for the internal market, which I have been passionate about, and

being able to use that chairmanship to get all the political parties to

join a big political initiative, the first begin should have since 1992,

which demonstrates how you can get things moving forward. I have really

enjoy it working with business through changes of regulation,

through services, and particularly, I want to say hello to Westfield

Cars. We are going to draw a line there. We have a lot of influence as

MPs. Thank you very much indeed. Coming up over the next few days,

more on our main talking point here today, the first anniversary of the

Police and Crime Commissioner elections. Throughout this week,

your BBC local radio stations will be focusing on what they've done so

far. Are they delivering on the promise of new`style, high`profile

police accountability? The new brooms sweeping clean the top of the

police more equipment so they can see

cyclists. Back to you, Andrew. We learned this week that no more

warships will be built at Portsmouth, the home of the Royal

Navy since the days of the Mary Rose and Francis Drake. But has the city

been sacrificed to save jobs on the Clyde in Scotland? Is England the

loser in an effort to keep the United Kingdom intact? Let's speak

to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign for an English Parliament. Is

England the loser in this attempt to keep the

doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English

Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to

stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best

outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year?

We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is

an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the

people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for

independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be

dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without

true representation. The union continues but it continues without

Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional

position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional

position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We

want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained

or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant.

Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If

that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes,

it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the

union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by

England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament,

wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny

list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to

the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very

concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched

British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable

situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with

Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about

trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile

situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation

separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and

Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I

want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were

sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to

remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly.

Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become

a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England

to have their representation - representation that looks at

policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern

Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way

forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system

might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you

want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is

implement the process is to get their representation for England. I

would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way

to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education.

Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the

British government is trying desperately to save the union by

giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this

business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been

pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the

union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a

disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a

minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow

its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to

admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be

dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a

Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a

killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in

this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two.

And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial

area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has

backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in

Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English

nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist

in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed

to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to

win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to

imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more

autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David

Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any

vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde,

you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is

economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the

United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this

government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of

being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case

of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave

That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you

like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you

happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last

week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He

said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So,

what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll

hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I

have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it?

Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used

drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years

ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few

times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I

tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around

you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that

get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession

by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once

smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that

she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about

them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not

deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant

to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat

his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a

generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went

through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables

and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely

honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy

is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was

saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet

Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot,

you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you

cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing

and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is

enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair

or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be

mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There

was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He

was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the

line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him.

Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will

surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes

on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those

who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised.

The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 ,

early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages

will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not

be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this

trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very

careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a

certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled

before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory

strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement

or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates.

-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions

about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions.

They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be

surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it

is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be

cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two

at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am.

Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.