Andrew Neil and David Garmston presents. Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna on Labour's plan for the economy and is it time to leave the European Court of Human Rights?
Browse content similar to 22/01/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
In the West: The company's charging you to work for them. We look at
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1764 seconds
internships. Valuable work Welcome to the Sunday Politics in
the West. Fancy working for nothing? Well, that's what we
expect of thousands of our young people.
Today, we're looking at interns, the young men and women who give
their time and energy for free, in return for a chance to get a foot
in some employer's door. But is it really just exploitation?
We'll be discussing that later. But talking of people looking for work
experience and not getting a fee, let's meet our two guests of the
week. They are Anne Snelgrove for Labour - she used to represent
Swindon and worked inside Number 10 with Gordon Brown, where she gave
him a hug every daywhether he wanted one or not. And for the
Conservatives, James Gray, MP for North Wiltshire, who calls himself
a "proper Conservative" and wouldn't dream of giving David
Cameron a hug, even though he says they're good friends. Talking of
leaders, Mr Milliband this week has distanced himself from the unions.
Mr Cameron is distancing himself from greedy bosses - are they
moving closer together? I wouldn't have thought so. I think
what David was talking about during the week is very sensible. Some of
the salaries in the City you hear about, nobody's Labour can possibly
be worth �100 million. So I think the Commons was sensible. These
were things Ed Miliband was saying last year. He might be in trouble
with the right-wing press but he is certainly not in trouble with me.
You supported Ed Balls and the leadership. He was my second choice.
You picked a wrong one! No, I think all leaders, when you are taking
over from what was a pretty bad election result for us in 2010, all
leaders, the first one after that result is going to find it
difficult. Due what Mr Miliband to stay for the next election? I am an
active member of the Safe Ed Miliband campaign. He is absolutely
hopeless. And nice fellow, not a bad man. His is complete nonsense,
of course. What aid is doing in his speech, he is setting out strong
leadership goals for this year. I think he is doing really well.
shall wait and see. Elections are being held this year
for new police commissioners. Their job will be to hold your local
force to account. The successful candidate will be able to hire the
chief constable and earn up to �100,000 a year. Paul Barltrop
reports on how the police are trying to reconnect with the public.
The challenge of modern crime. The latest figures show that overall it
is down, but robberies are up, especially on our streets. And
that's where a new initiative in Gloucestershire is focused. It's
called Streetwatch - ordinary folk out on patrol, unaccompanied,
though for this week's launch they had uniformed officers alongside.
The force chose this innovation, but officers are wary of another
coming their way - elected police commissioners, ordered by the
government. What people want is to see us get away from the political
accountability of the last few years and restore democratic
accountability, giving a local voice to people and what is
happening in their area. Presently, the Home Secretary sets
overall strategies and provides national funding to police
authorities, made up of local councillors and appointees. They
fix budgets and hold police forces to account.
It's these worthies who'll be swept aside, in favour of an elected,
salaried commissioner. So this could be one of the last meetings
of the Avon and Somerset Police Authority. But fear not, they may
still have a role on the new Police and Crime Panels who will
scrutinise the commissioners elected in November.
Let's talk to Dr Tim Brain, who was chief constable of Gloucestershire
police. He is now a research fellow at Cardiff University. Are you
going to stand? I have to say, it is not time to make that decision
yet. Anybody who is concerned about communities and policing and not
concerned that much about politics will consider it is important to
have an independent voice in these new arrangements. But these
arrangements will be loaded in favour of the standard political
parties. It has been designed by politicians for politicians. So you
don't think you did get elected as an independent? I think they will
find it difficult. They don't have a party machine to get them through
the electoral process. So you say you might stand in Gloucestershire.
Say you did a new one, the chief constable there has the ex-chief
popping along to stick his oration. These new commissioners are going
to be a permanent part of the scene. They will turn up once a fortnight,
once a month. So who is in charge? The government intends the chief
constable to be in charge of operations and have directional
control of the force, but it will be in a different political context.
I am not in favour of this course, there was room for reforming the
old police authorities and making them more accountable, but not to
so much power being concentrated in one person, even if that person is
elected once every four years. It is quite autocratic, in fact. But
there is a sharing of power and the two individuals will just have to
get along. I will see some -- I can see some rows coming up. They will
probably be behind closed doors though. There will be some egos.
Corridors of power. James Gray, how many people do you meet in your
constituency you say, what we really need is an elected police
commissioner on �100,000 a year? have not met a single person who
says that. I am not commenced there is any need for these people at
will. I'm not certain we have a gap. If we do have them, I think Tim is
wrong. I would like to see someone independent. We have two or three
independents and the House of Commons. But he is saying he'd have
of England independent could get elected because they need a party
machine behind them. Also, you must -- you must take into account that
is a large constituencies. How you meant to put leaflets in everyone's
door. I'd say we can find a way around that. It doesn't have to be
party political. If there are people who will be out there in
good at it, go for it! We will find a way. Labour was against this from
the start. If there is an election coming up, a major party cannot
fail to take part. But we are in the middle of a very deep recession.
We're going to see thousands of police officers made redundant in
the next couple of years. We will see a shrinking, fewer police
officers on the street because of the cuts. And yet at the same time
we're going to be spending billions on electing these police
commissioners and is going to cost at least �112 million more to run
the police commissioners in this country. Will it help that there
will be a face for the public? not at all. I'm not sure how much
it is going to cost for the election, I think that is a bit of
an exaggeration. It is �112 million more than it is at the moment. The
issue far as is that two is right. The constituencies are large, it is
like the European elections. one thing I can say about all this
is police chiefs and the forces behind them happily sink at their
heart. They're going to try and make this work. It is a dangerous
politicisation of a system that hitherto has been renowned
throughout the world for being a political. Thank you for coming in
and sharing it with us. If you are young and looking for
work, you will know that it's almost as hard to get work
experience as it is to get an actual job. The demand is so high
that some companies are charging people for work experience, with
youngsters often paying more than �100 a day for that precious line
on their CVs. So is it right? And are even MPs using free labour,
dressed up as work experience? Dickon Hooper reports.
Students know how important it is to get work experience nowadays -
without it you've little or no chance of getting a job. Would you
pay to get work experience? I'm not sure about that. Personally, I know
because I don't think it's worth it. It's something they want you to do
that their company. They are benefiting from you being there
anyway. If it was needed for you to get the job, then yes.
This Somerset company takes a fee for putting people in touch with
small businesses who'll provide that experience and training - so
long as you pay for it. We're providing people with the
opportunity to put a fantastic set of information on their CV. If you
want to get work experience for a large company, it is reasonable
that these large multinationals have a corporate social
responsibility and therefore will provide this kind of training for
free. But if you look at smaller companies where you have one or two
people working in the business, typically they don't provide
training because they don't have the money or resources.
Sadgrove does run other businesses. If you want experience as a
copywriter with them, you will have to pay. You think you are aware
that paying you �130 a day for that? I don't think �130 is frankly
enough for someone to get the kind of experience they can get here, to
be honest. Graham Light is a photographer in Gloucestershire.
You can get a day with him for �95. What they get is my experience of
35 years in this industry, where I can guide them and show them the
various aspects of the industry that might be relevant. I also
think they put more value on it if they have actually invested some of
their money into it. It's not the sort of thing I'm doing to make
money, because to be honest I would normally charge a lot more than
that for a date. But critics say pain for work experience means it
is not open to everyone. The Deputy Prime Minister himself says
internships hold back social mobility, even though Westminster
is awash with them. All political parties have been running offices
on the efforts of underpaid or none pay people for far too long.
One of our MPs has gone further, paying out of her own pocket to
help youngsters get on the jobs ladder. I have had over 40 young
people through my office doing work-experience in the last year. I
paid for their lunchers and travel out of my personal money, not
taxpayers' money, not party money, my own pocket. But I think it is a
fantastic opportunity for young people actually see what it is like.
For these students then, some tough decisions ahead, which may well
depend on their ability to pay for them.
Gus Baker is the President of Bristol Students' Union and
campaigner for Intern Aware - what's wrong with companies
charging students for work placement or Internships? Unpaid
internships are biased against people who cannot afford them. They
are often in London where costs are particularly high. For one month,
it would cost you �1,000. You're paying to work for free. OK if you
have the Bank of mum and dad behind you. Exactly. So you get hard-
working, talented people who have played by the rules with good
degrees, and the door is slammed in their face by these and paid into
chips. Would experience lesson number one - life isn't fair, get
used to it. But there is no need for that. The national minimum wage
should be enforced. Then people just won't offer internships, will
they? Why would they want to pay �6 an hour for a graduate to come
around and have a look? Graduates of universities have fantastic
skills, they are well qualified and educated and they are worth that 6p
an hour. There were fit to those companies. -- �6 an hour. They are
worth it. It seems there is some exploitation going on, we do agree
with that? I would. I think politicians should be on the bright
side of this. They should not be taking on its young people and not
paying for them. It is worth a lot to have that on their CV. It is of
value, so that is the payment, in a way. Well, if only a certain group
of people can come into my office to get that experience because of
wealth, not ability, then that is wrong. I did pay some of my intense
the national minimum wage. Not all of them? No, because some of them
were doing one day a week and it was not classed as an internship.
Volunteering, work-experience. is quite a grey area. Why would you
pay someone to come and get some training for you? If they are
shadowing, just watching what is going on, then of course they don't
need to be paid. But what is actually happening is people are
doing real work, work that otherwise employees would be doing.
I guess it comes back to moral capitalism, really. If companies
were run by a loyal -- more people, they wouldn't do that. Well,
Parliament is different. My office is very small, I have one person
working for me, so I don't have a need for work experience. But out
there in the big world, the question is, do you take someone
for an unpaid internship if you are a company that is doing badly, or
nobody at all? But absolutely take your point about London. How you
expected to live in London and work for nothing? When I was looking for
work, there were companies looking for graduates and their what were
you, they would try to get you. Now it is a different type of the cycle.
It is an employers' market at the moment. It is really hurting people
and these are illegal placements. The National Minimum wage Act says
that if you were doing work you must be paid their least �6.80 p an
hour. There are cases at tribunals that have come back with that
result. If there any young people watching you feel they have been
exploited, go to a website -- our website for more information.
thank you for joining us. It's been a busy political week
again here in the West - we've crammed the highlights into our 60
second round up. Two areas in the west are to trial
a badger cull - farmers can now apply for a license to shoot them.
Unemployment rose again...and a warning from a local recruitment
firm to public sector workers looking for jobs
Book lovers in Gloucestershire say they'll take their fight to save
libraries back to court. Another delay for Bristol City's
new stadium. Book lovers in Gloucestershire say
they'll take their fight to save libraries back to court. The
council have promised to save three, but seven others face closure
unless volunteers step in. And in a parallel universe, Jacob
Rees-Mogg joked clocks in Somerset should be 15 minutes behind
everyone else! People in Somerset are so clever that they can deal
with these things. People in other places around the country can't.
Work that one out when you're trying to catch a train! James, you
voted for a badger cull - will it work? That's right, 25,000 cows are
killed because of TB. Throughout the world, the any way you can
eliminate TV in Cowes is by getting rid of the badgers and the other
wildlife that carry it. So it has to be done, alongside other
strategies like inoculation. think inoculation is the way to go.
There a lot of new companies setting up to do this. If you cull
badgers in another area, a new set will arrive. If you cold 70% of the
badgers, you reduce -- you reduce TB by 17%. It is not a huge
decrease. We had Carling in this country until 1980. There are now
�25,000 a year. It cost us �10 billion and the next 10 years.
about the badgers? We are a country that loves our wildlife. The badger
cull will cost a lot of money and devastate... It will cost us
nothing. The farmers are doing it themselves. Well, it will not be
very successful, because if you just have a farmer with a gun going
out shooting the badgers, how is he going, he is not going to get all
of them? The other day, Anne Snelgrove was in here telling me we
couldn't kill foxes using dogs. She said, let's get people out to shoot
the foxes. How can country people win?! I don't think it's fair,
there are more effective ways of keeping tea be away from cows. One
of them would be to secure the bonds -- the barns so the bad just
don't come in for the feed. there was, we would have done it
Andrew Neil and David Garmston with the latest political news with Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna on Labour's plan for the economy and is it time to leave the European Court of Human Rights?