Browse content similar to 22/01/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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In the West: The company's charging you to work for them. We look at | :01:38. | :01:48. | |
:01:48. | :01:48. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1764 seconds | :01:48. | :31:13. | |
internships. Valuable work Welcome to the Sunday Politics in | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
the West. Fancy working for nothing? Well, that's what we | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
expect of thousands of our young people. | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
Today, we're looking at interns, the young men and women who give | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
their time and energy for free, in return for a chance to get a foot | :31:26. | :31:35. | |
in some employer's door. But is it really just exploitation? | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
We'll be discussing that later. But talking of people looking for work | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
experience and not getting a fee, let's meet our two guests of the | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
week. They are Anne Snelgrove for Labour - she used to represent | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
Swindon and worked inside Number 10 with Gordon Brown, where she gave | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
him a hug every daywhether he wanted one or not. And for the | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
Conservatives, James Gray, MP for North Wiltshire, who calls himself | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
a "proper Conservative" and wouldn't dream of giving David | :31:56. | :32:02. | |
Cameron a hug, even though he says they're good friends. Talking of | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
leaders, Mr Milliband this week has distanced himself from the unions. | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
Mr Cameron is distancing himself from greedy bosses - are they | :32:11. | :32:21. | |
:32:21. | :32:21. | ||
moving closer together? I wouldn't have thought so. I think | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
what David was talking about during the week is very sensible. Some of | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
the salaries in the City you hear about, nobody's Labour can possibly | :32:34. | :32:40. | |
be worth �100 million. So I think the Commons was sensible. These | :32:40. | :32:48. | |
were things Ed Miliband was saying last year. He might be in trouble | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
with the right-wing press but he is certainly not in trouble with me. | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
You supported Ed Balls and the leadership. He was my second choice. | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
You picked a wrong one! No, I think all leaders, when you are taking | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
over from what was a pretty bad election result for us in 2010, all | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
leaders, the first one after that result is going to find it | :33:13. | :33:19. | |
difficult. Due what Mr Miliband to stay for the next election? I am an | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
active member of the Safe Ed Miliband campaign. He is absolutely | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
hopeless. And nice fellow, not a bad man. His is complete nonsense, | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
of course. What aid is doing in his speech, he is setting out strong | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
leadership goals for this year. I think he is doing really well. | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
shall wait and see. Elections are being held this year | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
for new police commissioners. Their job will be to hold your local | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
force to account. The successful candidate will be able to hire the | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
chief constable and earn up to �100,000 a year. Paul Barltrop | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
reports on how the police are trying to reconnect with the public. | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
The challenge of modern crime. The latest figures show that overall it | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
is down, but robberies are up, especially on our streets. And | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
that's where a new initiative in Gloucestershire is focused. It's | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
called Streetwatch - ordinary folk out on patrol, unaccompanied, | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
though for this week's launch they had uniformed officers alongside. | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
The force chose this innovation, but officers are wary of another | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
coming their way - elected police commissioners, ordered by the | :34:22. | :34:32. | |
:34:32. | :34:33. | ||
government. What people want is to see us get away from the political | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
accountability of the last few years and restore democratic | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
accountability, giving a local voice to people and what is | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
happening in their area. Presently, the Home Secretary sets | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
overall strategies and provides national funding to police | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
authorities, made up of local councillors and appointees. They | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
fix budgets and hold police forces to account. | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
It's these worthies who'll be swept aside, in favour of an elected, | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
salaried commissioner. So this could be one of the last meetings | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
of the Avon and Somerset Police Authority. But fear not, they may | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
still have a role on the new Police and Crime Panels who will | :35:05. | :35:15. | |
:35:15. | :35:15. | ||
scrutinise the commissioners elected in November. | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
Let's talk to Dr Tim Brain, who was chief constable of Gloucestershire | :35:19. | :35:25. | |
police. He is now a research fellow at Cardiff University. Are you | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
going to stand? I have to say, it is not time to make that decision | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
yet. Anybody who is concerned about communities and policing and not | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
concerned that much about politics will consider it is important to | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
have an independent voice in these new arrangements. But these | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
arrangements will be loaded in favour of the standard political | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
parties. It has been designed by politicians for politicians. So you | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
don't think you did get elected as an independent? I think they will | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
find it difficult. They don't have a party machine to get them through | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
the electoral process. So you say you might stand in Gloucestershire. | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
Say you did a new one, the chief constable there has the ex-chief | :36:06. | :36:13. | |
popping along to stick his oration. These new commissioners are going | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
to be a permanent part of the scene. They will turn up once a fortnight, | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
once a month. So who is in charge? The government intends the chief | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
constable to be in charge of operations and have directional | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
control of the force, but it will be in a different political context. | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
I am not in favour of this course, there was room for reforming the | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
old police authorities and making them more accountable, but not to | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
so much power being concentrated in one person, even if that person is | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
elected once every four years. It is quite autocratic, in fact. But | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
there is a sharing of power and the two individuals will just have to | :36:52. | :37:00. | |
get along. I will see some -- I can see some rows coming up. They will | :37:00. | :37:07. | |
probably be behind closed doors though. There will be some egos. | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
Corridors of power. James Gray, how many people do you meet in your | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
constituency you say, what we really need is an elected police | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
commissioner on �100,000 a year? have not met a single person who | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
says that. I am not commenced there is any need for these people at | :37:27. | :37:37. | |
:37:37. | :37:37. | ||
will. I'm not certain we have a gap. If we do have them, I think Tim is | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
wrong. I would like to see someone independent. We have two or three | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
independents and the House of Commons. But he is saying he'd have | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
of England independent could get elected because they need a party | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
machine behind them. Also, you must -- you must take into account that | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
is a large constituencies. How you meant to put leaflets in everyone's | :38:00. | :38:08. | |
door. I'd say we can find a way around that. It doesn't have to be | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
party political. If there are people who will be out there in | :38:12. | :38:19. | |
good at it, go for it! We will find a way. Labour was against this from | :38:19. | :38:28. | |
the start. If there is an election coming up, a major party cannot | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
fail to take part. But we are in the middle of a very deep recession. | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
We're going to see thousands of police officers made redundant in | :38:36. | :38:44. | |
the next couple of years. We will see a shrinking, fewer police | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
officers on the street because of the cuts. And yet at the same time | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
we're going to be spending billions on electing these police | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
commissioners and is going to cost at least �112 million more to run | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
the police commissioners in this country. Will it help that there | :39:03. | :39:11. | |
will be a face for the public? not at all. I'm not sure how much | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
it is going to cost for the election, I think that is a bit of | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
an exaggeration. It is �112 million more than it is at the moment. The | :39:20. | :39:26. | |
issue far as is that two is right. The constituencies are large, it is | :39:26. | :39:35. | |
like the European elections. one thing I can say about all this | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
is police chiefs and the forces behind them happily sink at their | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
heart. They're going to try and make this work. It is a dangerous | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
politicisation of a system that hitherto has been renowned | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
throughout the world for being a political. Thank you for coming in | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
and sharing it with us. If you are young and looking for | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
work, you will know that it's almost as hard to get work | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
experience as it is to get an actual job. The demand is so high | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
that some companies are charging people for work experience, with | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
youngsters often paying more than �100 a day for that precious line | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
on their CVs. So is it right? And are even MPs using free labour, | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
dressed up as work experience? Dickon Hooper reports. | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
Students know how important it is to get work experience nowadays - | :40:20. | :40:30. | |
:40:30. | :40:30. | ||
without it you've little or no chance of getting a job. Would you | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
pay to get work experience? I'm not sure about that. Personally, I know | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
because I don't think it's worth it. It's something they want you to do | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
that their company. They are benefiting from you being there | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
anyway. If it was needed for you to get the job, then yes. | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
This Somerset company takes a fee for putting people in touch with | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
small businesses who'll provide that experience and training - so | :40:52. | :41:00. | |
long as you pay for it. We're providing people with the | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
opportunity to put a fantastic set of information on their CV. If you | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
want to get work experience for a large company, it is reasonable | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
that these large multinationals have a corporate social | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
responsibility and therefore will provide this kind of training for | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
free. But if you look at smaller companies where you have one or two | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
people working in the business, typically they don't provide | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
training because they don't have the money or resources. | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
Sadgrove does run other businesses. If you want experience as a | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
copywriter with them, you will have to pay. You think you are aware | :41:33. | :41:40. | |
that paying you �130 a day for that? I don't think �130 is frankly | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
enough for someone to get the kind of experience they can get here, to | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
be honest. Graham Light is a photographer in Gloucestershire. | :41:48. | :41:55. | |
You can get a day with him for �95. What they get is my experience of | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
35 years in this industry, where I can guide them and show them the | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
various aspects of the industry that might be relevant. I also | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
think they put more value on it if they have actually invested some of | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
their money into it. It's not the sort of thing I'm doing to make | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
money, because to be honest I would normally charge a lot more than | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
that for a date. But critics say pain for work experience means it | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
is not open to everyone. The Deputy Prime Minister himself says | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
internships hold back social mobility, even though Westminster | :42:27. | :42:34. | |
is awash with them. All political parties have been running offices | :42:34. | :42:41. | |
on the efforts of underpaid or none pay people for far too long. | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
One of our MPs has gone further, paying out of her own pocket to | :42:44. | :42:52. | |
help youngsters get on the jobs ladder. I have had over 40 young | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
people through my office doing work-experience in the last year. I | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
paid for their lunchers and travel out of my personal money, not | :42:59. | :43:06. | |
taxpayers' money, not party money, my own pocket. But I think it is a | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
fantastic opportunity for young people actually see what it is like. | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
For these students then, some tough decisions ahead, which may well | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
depend on their ability to pay for them. | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
Gus Baker is the President of Bristol Students' Union and | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
campaigner for Intern Aware - what's wrong with companies | :43:22. | :43:32. | |
:43:32. | :43:32. | ||
charging students for work placement or Internships? Unpaid | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
internships are biased against people who cannot afford them. They | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
are often in London where costs are particularly high. For one month, | :43:41. | :43:48. | |
it would cost you �1,000. You're paying to work for free. OK if you | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
have the Bank of mum and dad behind you. Exactly. So you get hard- | :43:52. | :44:00. | |
working, talented people who have played by the rules with good | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
degrees, and the door is slammed in their face by these and paid into | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
chips. Would experience lesson number one - life isn't fair, get | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
used to it. But there is no need for that. The national minimum wage | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
should be enforced. Then people just won't offer internships, will | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
they? Why would they want to pay �6 an hour for a graduate to come | :44:22. | :44:29. | |
around and have a look? Graduates of universities have fantastic | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
skills, they are well qualified and educated and they are worth that 6p | :44:34. | :44:43. | |
an hour. There were fit to those companies. -- �6 an hour. They are | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
worth it. It seems there is some exploitation going on, we do agree | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
with that? I would. I think politicians should be on the bright | :44:52. | :45:00. | |
side of this. They should not be taking on its young people and not | :45:00. | :45:07. | |
paying for them. It is worth a lot to have that on their CV. It is of | :45:07. | :45:13. | |
value, so that is the payment, in a way. Well, if only a certain group | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
of people can come into my office to get that experience because of | :45:16. | :45:24. | |
wealth, not ability, then that is wrong. I did pay some of my intense | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
the national minimum wage. Not all of them? No, because some of them | :45:27. | :45:35. | |
were doing one day a week and it was not classed as an internship. | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
Volunteering, work-experience. is quite a grey area. Why would you | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
pay someone to come and get some training for you? If they are | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
shadowing, just watching what is going on, then of course they don't | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
need to be paid. But what is actually happening is people are | :45:52. | :45:58. | |
doing real work, work that otherwise employees would be doing. | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
I guess it comes back to moral capitalism, really. If companies | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
were run by a loyal -- more people, they wouldn't do that. Well, | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
Parliament is different. My office is very small, I have one person | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
working for me, so I don't have a need for work experience. But out | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
there in the big world, the question is, do you take someone | :46:21. | :46:28. | |
for an unpaid internship if you are a company that is doing badly, or | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
nobody at all? But absolutely take your point about London. How you | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
expected to live in London and work for nothing? When I was looking for | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
work, there were companies looking for graduates and their what were | :46:43. | :46:50. | |
you, they would try to get you. Now it is a different type of the cycle. | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
It is an employers' market at the moment. It is really hurting people | :46:54. | :47:01. | |
and these are illegal placements. The National Minimum wage Act says | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
that if you were doing work you must be paid their least �6.80 p an | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
hour. There are cases at tribunals that have come back with that | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
result. If there any young people watching you feel they have been | :47:14. | :47:23. | |
exploited, go to a website -- our website for more information. | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
thank you for joining us. It's been a busy political week | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
again here in the West - we've crammed the highlights into our 60 | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
second round up. Two areas in the west are to trial | :47:36. | :47:44. | |
a badger cull - farmers can now apply for a license to shoot them. | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
Unemployment rose again...and a warning from a local recruitment | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
firm to public sector workers looking for jobs | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
Book lovers in Gloucestershire say they'll take their fight to save | :47:51. | :48:01. | |
:48:01. | :48:01. | ||
libraries back to court. Another delay for Bristol City's | :48:01. | :48:11. | |
:48:11. | :48:12. | ||
new stadium. Book lovers in Gloucestershire say | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
they'll take their fight to save libraries back to court. The | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
council have promised to save three, but seven others face closure | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
unless volunteers step in. And in a parallel universe, Jacob | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
Rees-Mogg joked clocks in Somerset should be 15 minutes behind | :48:23. | :48:29. | |
everyone else! People in Somerset are so clever that they can deal | :48:29. | :48:35. | |
with these things. People in other places around the country can't. | :48:35. | :48:43. | |
Work that one out when you're trying to catch a train! James, you | :48:43. | :48:52. | |
voted for a badger cull - will it work? That's right, 25,000 cows are | :48:52. | :48:59. | |
killed because of TB. Throughout the world, the any way you can | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
eliminate TV in Cowes is by getting rid of the badgers and the other | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
wildlife that carry it. So it has to be done, alongside other | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
strategies like inoculation. think inoculation is the way to go. | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
There a lot of new companies setting up to do this. If you cull | :49:17. | :49:27. | |
:49:27. | :49:28. | ||
badgers in another area, a new set will arrive. If you cold 70% of the | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
badgers, you reduce -- you reduce TB by 17%. It is not a huge | :49:34. | :49:41. | |
decrease. We had Carling in this country until 1980. There are now | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
�25,000 a year. It cost us �10 billion and the next 10 years. | :49:46. | :49:52. | |
about the badgers? We are a country that loves our wildlife. The badger | :49:52. | :49:58. | |
cull will cost a lot of money and devastate... It will cost us | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
nothing. The farmers are doing it themselves. Well, it will not be | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
very successful, because if you just have a farmer with a gun going | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
out shooting the badgers, how is he going, he is not going to get all | :50:12. | :50:18. | |
of them? The other day, Anne Snelgrove was in here telling me we | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
couldn't kill foxes using dogs. She said, let's get people out to shoot | :50:23. | :50:32. | |
the foxes. How can country people win?! I don't think it's fair, | :50:32. | :50:38. | |
there are more effective ways of keeping tea be away from cows. One | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
of them would be to secure the bonds -- the barns so the bad just | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
don't come in for the feed. there was, we would have done it | :50:48. | :50:53. |