25/03/2012 Sunday Politics West

In the West: It's day 18 on the picket line at

Swindon's Great Western Hospital. As more private firms take over

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1832 seconds

public sector contracts, is this a On the Sunday politics here in the

West: The strike that is disrupting housekeeping at Great Weston

Hospital. It is day 18 on the picket line and

these workers say they will keep striking as long may as they are

winning. As more private companies take on the running of public

services, is this a sign of things to come?

Here, sharing their views on the picket line are to local

politicians who will help us throughout the programme. They are

Duncan Hames from Chippenham who was representing the coalition. On

the opposite side of the Liber, flying the Labour flag is their

leader in the House of Lords. She is a member of unite. This week the

budget and the decision to cut the 50 pence rate of tax. What do you

think? Complete the ideological. It meant that 14,000 of the richest

people in this country gain over �40,000 a year. Her family on

�20,000 is going to lose �250. Nationally it was peanuts, the

money raised. It said it was a deterrent and there was also a lot

of tax avoidance. But somebody is avoiding tax because they are

paying 50 pence in the pound, are they really going to change their

ways if they are paying slightly less? Are you comfortable with

this? The most substantial thing in the Budget was raised in the

personal allowances so ordinary working people got a tax cut. That

was our priority. You gave way on the 50 pence because of that?

Because there were other tax measures on the rich that will

raise five times as much. Like what? Like measures on stamp duty

for instance. There is not have evidence of people with large

properties who have been putting them into foreign-owned companies

to avoid paying stamp duty. They will be really whacked now. It says

there is at about �100 million cost to give the rich their tax-break,

that money is raised by putting tax on hot takeaway food like sausage

rolls. Can you understand the logic? Why it bothered taxing hot

food? We were a lot more concerned to see substantial taxes raised

from the wealthy if the 50 pence rate was going to go. As you say,

these sums are all far smaller than are the biggest change that will be

affecting people... In Wiltshire and Swindon, a quarter of a million

people will see their tax bill go down. We will talk about the Budget

a bit more later on but no sausage rolls for you today it! This week

MPs gave the final not to controversial plans to overhaul the

NHS. The Health and Social Care Bill has divided the coalition

ranks and caused outrage amongst medical professionals. Campaigners

against the changes challenged the local Lib Dem MP in Wales, warning

her that she will lose votes and possibly her feet over the changes.

You are there to represent us, not to tell us what the party line is.

I am not telling you what the party line is. I am telling you what my

view is, having looked at the bill, having worked with people to try

and change it... Yesterday in the marketplace, I got one signature

every two minutes. People spontaneously made a beeline. They

were shaking my and because they so wanted their voice to be heard. We

have health worker signed it, we had members sign it is said they

would resign from the Lib Dems if you voted Bs to this Bill. They

will not be there to knock on the doors and give out the leaflets and

you will not have people supporting you like they did in the last

election. We urge you, decent people urge you to vote against his

bail. We are here because we are angry about it. We feel you have

done something quite undemocratic. You have come in and I can almost

guarantee that if you were standing with us, it really would make your

blood boil. There was a lot of anger from those campaigners and

just after that our health correspondent spoke to Tessa Munt

and this is what she had to say. realise it will be difficult but I

have to take into consideration what I actually seat in front of me.

I have listened to both sides of the argument. There are people who

are quite supportive of the changes. Juditha Brown is a former nurse and

a health lecturer. She is a campaign against those health

reforms. What is the problem? do why start? Firstly, nobody had a

mandate for this. We did a survey last year and 900 ascended by

people replied and said they were perfectly happy with the NHS as it

is. Hospital doctors came out against it and the Royal College of

Nurses came out against it and public health people came out

against it. Ordinary people like me, nearly 2000 people signed a

petition saying the Bill should be dropped. Some give a good hospital

and some have great experiences and some have disappointing experiences.

What makes you think private will be any better? When you have

shareholders being responsible for providing health care rather than

the minister who should be responsible, I do not think it will

get any better, it will get worse. Do you think the old people who you

represent do not need any improvements? Things can always be

improved. We should be proud of our NHS. We give equal access to the

poorest people. The rich have always been able to buy it.

will have to pay? Foreign companies are going to come in and want to

make a profit out of us. If US court an older person to hospital

and they get great care and they have no bill at the end of it, what

does it matter to you who pays the doctor's salary? It matters because

shareholders are not going to have the best interest of people at art.

They will want a profit. Private companies will set up and they will

cream off the easy bits away and the NHS will be left with the

really difficult bits to look after. When this Bill went through, the

Lib Dem members of the cabinet joined in the general thumping on

the cabinet table to said they supported it and they were pleased.

Are you comfortable with it? think the Bill is a lot better than

it was as a result of the work that has been done in the second

committee stage and in the House of Lords. I think it is very important

that we recognise the difference that those changes have made,

differences that will make sure that it is no longer the case that

the private sector can get preferential treatment which is

what happened when the Independent treatment centres were brought in.

Were you please that this has gone through? I am pleased that the Bill

is now law and I have supported it through Parliament and I am glad,

for example, that we will see greater public accountability in

the NHS. In the last parliament in Wiltshire we saw half of Our beds

close and there was no local accountability for that the

decision. Labour started his privatisation creep in the NHS.

started a tiny amount and it is questionable whether we should have

done it but I think we should. The point is that now in future any

hospital can treat up to 49% of its patients as private patients. The

NHS and we know it will be broken up and fragmented. It is not going

to be a proper public service which is what the people of this country

and the people of the West Country deserve. A number of people pay to

go private, why would you want to stop ordinary people getting that

kind of service? There is nothing to say the treatment in a private

company is any better than an NHS treatment. If you are ill you just

want to be treated with the best possible care and in the majority

of cases that is in the NHS where we have brilliant consultants,

nurses, doctors, the whole lot. Things can be improved but they do

not need such a Bill that encourages privatisation. What the

protesters were saying is that you would pay for this at the next

election. Do you feel you have been used in a way as a sort of human

shield by the Conservatives? No, I do not. Ultimately at the next

general election, people will see the NHS that they have and they

will see whether any of the stories they have heard in the last few

years about what will happen to the NHS actually come true. They will

be able to judge the government on the record of the health services

that we have at the time. Some of it is already happening. In Bristol

Community Health was floated off into a social enterprise away from

the NHS. I ask if the staff would have the same wages and conditions

of service and I was told they would for the first year but then

they were in the private sector. None of these policies could have

been introduced without the support of the Liberal Democrats. Will get

the last word from the guy who got it through. We have worked to

improve this Bill everywhere the can. That includes making sure that

the new commissioning consortia are more conspiring to -- transparent

and open. I am sorry, you will pay for it. The NHS reforms are

fiercely opposed by the unions. One of their biggest complaint is that

there will be more privatisation inside the health service and that

is not new. The last government of private firms to build and run

hospitals. It is at the heart of an industrial dispute in Swindon at

Remember the 1980s? The unions do. Conservative-led governments are

not good for them. When Margaret Thatcher was in power, membership

lunch by one-third. Numerous new laws paid them back. Roll forward

one quarter of a century and union activism has got a different look.

This was the scene in Swindon on Thursday, an elaborate stunt

carried out by a union as part of a high-profile battle with a company

that run the Great Weston Hospital. 150 housekeeping staff have taken

strike action over the way they have been treated. I think it is

completely negative what they are doing there. As long as we are

winning we will continue with the strike. It is not just this company

under fire. Also criticised a two of the unions at the hospital.

were fed up with them. We have told them many times that this was going

on and they were not listening to us. We have come to a union he said

they would take care of us all. They have been taken care of. The

union has compensated staff for the 18 days they have been out. The

union are putting a lot into this fight. They have got hundreds to

demonstrate on the streets of Swindon last weekend. They are

worried that having Conservatives in government, making cuts has

emboldened private firms. officers I have been dealing with

have been around 40 years in the job and they have never come across

a employee alike this to have been absolutely are prepared to talk or

compromise. They have dug their heels in and said there is nothing

to talk about. In a statement, the This is an NHS hospital but with a

big private sector presence. It was built and is run by profit-making

companies. With the NHS reforms encouraging more private sector

involvement, there are fears that there will be many more fights with

the unions in future. Down the road in Bristol, what is powering ahead

building the west's biggest hospital. It is a �430 million

project. Carillion is the main contractor. I fear this may be an

opening battle and there will be many more battles as private

companies takeover more of the National Health Service and bring

in their own hard-headed business approach as opposed to the services

that we have seen in the National Health Service. We will not call

any more strikes while these interviews are taking place.

now there will be a pause for talks. The unions are bracing themselves

for more battles to come. We did last Carillion on today but

they could not make it. We have a representative of the United union

who were -- spoke in support of those workers. You can see trouble

ahead? I spoke at a rally in support of the victorious

electrician who were taking unofficial action. I was invited to

Swindon but I was double-booked. I can see a lot of trouble ahead. It

is profit before people and privatisation. We have seen it with

gas, electric, water at, and things just go up. We have seen it in the

rail industry which led to Potters Bar and the loss of life.

unions are always promising general strikes, student protests, days of

action, and it all fizzles out. wish they were always promising

that. The truth is that people get in front of the trade union

leadership. My own trade union leader did very well out of the

Budget because he is on a handsome salary. Yesterday there was a

demonstration which was impromptu where people care about the NHS. It

is being privatised under our noses. It wasn't a huge demonstration. I

saw the pictures. Do not forget that when we looked at the pictures

from the 1980s and what Thatcher did to the unions, that was all in

response to what happened in the 70s when we were boys and we were

doing our homework by candlelight because the power workers switched

off the electricity. Like you, I had a lot of fun during the three-

day week, dressing by candlelight. I think the truth is that trade

unionists should be inspired to fight for the NHS and fight for

services and fight for proper jobs, not �6.50 an hour. These people in

Swindon hospital are heroes. They are courageous people. Carillion

has blacklists of a trade union members. Labour's relationship with

the unions is quite tricky, isn't it? Not really. I am a proud trade

unions. Did you take part in the recent days of action? I have been

on demonstrations but they did not pick take part in the day of action.

Do you regard Labour as being your party? I think Margaret Thatcher

criminalised trade unionists. She had anti-union laws that made it

impossible to take legal action... Are you a Labour supporter? Labour

never repealed those anti-union laws. At least the Tories do for

their class what they promise. They make the rich richer. Labour lead

the trade unionists down. They let the working class down. I would

completely disagree with that. We created jobs under Labour. We did a

huge amount to take people out of poverty, especially young people

and elderly people. Life under Labour was 100 times better than it

would be under this Government. was people power that smashed the

poll tax. Labour said pay it and we were changed over me get into power.

I was pleased to ignore the Labour MPs. Let us bring Duncan into this

discussion. More privatisation in at the NHS, you back the bill. Can

you see more industrial problems coming as a result? I do not see

that actually. In recent years there have been more industrial

problems in the public sector than the private sector. I do not want

to see us go back to the 1980s. I have a lot of sympathy for the sort

of position that the workers are taking in this dispute. They are

not going on this -- strike because they were more pay. Their

complaints about -- and their complaints are about bullying and

their allegations of bribery. There should be a proper investigation

into the complaint that they have made. We have to leave it there.

one goes on strike for a laugh, everybody takes it seriously.

right, we will stay in 2012 for now,. Thank you very much indeed.

We will take a look back at today's political headlines.

It is the determined policy of this Government that we keep a Wallace

and Gromit exactly where they are. Bristol's celebrity duo got a

mention from the Chancellor this week as he announced a new tax

break for animations, bringing them in a line with big-budget films.

Vince Cable said he backed moves to boost research in the West. There

is a big project to support research in the aerospace industry

which is crucial. A High Court challenge put paid to government

plans to cull badgers. The badger Trust says its legal challenge

should be heard in June. Most of Bristol's council-run hair

homes could be closed under plans under at the limit debt -- Liberal

Democrat run council. It was back to the future as Labour

and the Lib Dems on South Gloucestershire council backed a

move to end the Cabinet decision- making system. They voted to return

to the old committee system. That Was the Week in just one

minute. Just time for a very quick talk about the Budget finally. Let

us have for just one highlight or low light. Too low lights, nothing

for young people and the granny tax. 4.4 million pensioners are going to

lose out. Extra money to support the economy in Wiltshire and

Swindon and not well supported but a further increase in the tax on

banks. Will there be growth? growth will not improve as a

response to this Budget. We shall have to wait and see. Thank you

very much indeed. That is it from the West this week. Sunday politics