16/06/2013 Sunday Politics West

smoking. Should cigarettes be sold in plain

packets to cut sales, and how will that go down in Bristol where so

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2337 seconds

that is just for us here in the West. We are talking about these

things, fags. After the success of the ban on smoking in public places,

should the Government get a move on and take branding of cigarette

packets? That is coming up soon. Joining us in our no smoking lounge

today are a Lib Dem MP Stephen Williams and the Conservatives

candidate for Wells, jeans hippie. -- James Heatley. Stephen, any hopes

for a job for your good self? is always speculation about it. We

will just have to wait and see. Nick Clegg has my phone number. It is a

job I would like. There is nothing wrong with that while your party is

wrong with that while your party is in Government. Public Health

Minister would be a good one. going to be smoking -- talking about

smoking later on. Any thoughts you would -- about who you would like to

see promoted or kicked out of the Cabinet? I have no thoughts on who I

would like to be kicked out, but it is for David Cameron to build the

strongest team possible to take the country forward. The economic

recovery is still just beginning. There is plenty of work to be done

there. It is important he builds a strong team to take the country

forward and take the Conservative Party forward into pretty important

elections. You write the speeches for Liam Fox will stop would you

like to see him back? Liam was very kind to me when I told him he and

was going to leave the army last year. He offered me a job. It has

been great working for him. He has a data meant for this country, and it

would be great to see him back if there was a sport for -- spot for

him. Now, Weston-super-Mare's the Miss

outdoor swimming pool, the Tropicana, could remain empty and

boarded up four years according to local politicians. Last year, the

promised to knock the swimming pool down. However, local people appealed

that decision, and because of the political and legal process, it is

likely to stand empty for the foreseeable future. Who is to blame

for the delays? Weston on a bit. Marty. The sun,

sand new pier and happy holidaymakers. On the horizon, you

can just spot the sea. Cause the tide goes out so far, there is

little chance of a paddle for these youngsters, and that is where this,

the Trop, came into its own. In its day, it was the place to go, with

water slides, diving boards and even a wave machine. Thousands queued to

take the plunge here. But when new quarter -- water quality standards

were introduced, that all changed. It was back in 2000 that the doors

to the Trop were closed for the first time. The council said they

couldn't afford to run the swimming pool. We hope the private company

would take it over. He said that should happen within a few months.

13 years on and with the bop -- the building falling into disrepair, the

council say the only viable option is to knock it down. No queues at

the famous Tropicana pool. It is closed... �25 million. So the saga

has run on and on. Derek Mead is a local businessmen who built this

restaurant in the town. He thinks he has a solution that should save the

Trop from the wrecking ball. He says the council would listen and it is

getting personal. We want to turn it into a charitable trust, and be

better advised by our MP that the best way forward was to put it into

a charitable trust. That would open the door for lottery money, heritage

money or whatever. We don't think the figures add up. We don't think

the costs are realistic, and the ongoing revenue costs of running it

are dependent on resale. It has become a constant headache for the

Council, discussed in meeting after meeting. They say there is fed up

with it as local people. Too many, the other ones to blame. There is

nothing wrong with the building itself. To leave it to go to ruin,

like they are doing, is wrong. There is going to be a preservation order

on it, because it will be that old. This is a town that relies on to

list 's money, and having a building such as this empty is not good for

the city. The council wants to do something about it, but it is now in

the hands of Eric Pickles and the Department for local governor to

take the final decision. The problem could come if we don't get

permission to demolish, literally go from there? We have still got the

power under English law for a judiciary review. We don't want to

do that. Why should we waste more money that could be put into more

useful use than actually getting it going? While they fight it out over

what should happen to this once thriving pool, you can be pretty

sure that the boarded up swimming pool will be here for one more

summer and possibly many more. We did ask North Somerset Council to

appear on the programme, but they said no-one was available, which is

a shame. We are joined by the chair of the Weston-super-Mare to dress

for the association. -- restaurant Association. I think they are so fed

up abandoning the same questions over the last 13 years. Why did they

want to pull it down? They said it was an eyesore, and it is also

become a bit of a problem. It is unsafe. They feel they ought to put

down before there is any injuries. It has been going on for 13 years.

How do you feel about that? I personally feel that they should go

ahead. The restaurant Association should go ahead with that as well.

He should do what he wants. It is the perfect plan that we have been

looking at. He says if it doesn't work, he is willing to post on

himself and foot the bill and save the taxpayers. What has happened

between the relationship of the council and people like you? They

have stopped listening to the general public. The town council are

all in support, but it just seems that North Somerset Council doesn't

want to be listening. They have actually said in many meetings,

let's just go free this meeting without bringing the Tropicana at

all. Let's bring in our other guests. James, does it make you

proud to hear about this sort of fiasco going on for the last 13

years? I have to be honest and say that once -- whilst I've been to

their many times growing up, I have not involved in any way in the

Tropicana redevelopment. I feel uneasy talking about the details of

that. I do think that councils face a difficult challenge. There are the

needs of the community, needs to be developed, needs for economic

growth. That is never going to be complete agreement over projects.

Yes, the Tropicana seems to have been dragging on over quite a while,

but it is difficult to comment on the details of that case went and

saw unfamiliar with it. It is the ability of a council to act

reasonably quickly. Stephen, what do you think of the performance of the

Council on this issue? As a point Western Europe, it is something you

have to do it many times over the years. As a boy, I swum in the

Tropicana and played on the dodgems at the pier. The Tropicana saga

seems to have gone on for many years. It is a puzzle why the

council hasn't got a grip on this and sorted it out. The sun doesn't

shine all the time in the area, so you do need dry attractions for

people to enjoy. What may be puzzling to some viewers is that it

is going to Eric Pickles to make the decision. If the council can't even

decide what happens to a pretty average swimming pool on the

seafront, without going all the way to the Government, does that

indicate something has gone very wrong watermark I think it indicates

absolutely the way that planning has been done previously in this country

is indeed very wrong. I think what the Government introduced last year,

which is to empower local authorities to make decisions that

have been arrived at through consultation with the local

community and plans developed, the expectation is that as those changes

come into effect and as those plans are developed, less things will need

to be referred. Do you think local people would have sorted this out?

They would have sorted it out in no time. Thank you very much. Let's all

for some sunny weather. The latest wheeze to stop smoking.

I've not of Bristol was built on tobacco and it is still the

headquarters of Imperial, which has announced profits of more than �1

billion in just six months. But now the company is fighting to protect

its pants. It spends millions on nice, shiny packets like this. But

no campaigners want all branding stripped off and cigarettes sold in

drab containers like this one. They all look the same. The Government

seemed up for the idea but nothing happened.

It was once tobacco city. Crystal prospered manufacturing cigarettes.

A jobs with -- a job with Imperial Tobacco was much sought-after.

Workers were given free fags. One who worked at the giant complex was

George Bookham. That was the head office, and I used to work over

there. He started smoking as a child and only stopped after the end of

his quarter-century with the firm. I think the majority of blokes

smoked. I mean, we were all brought up like that and note it could do

any harm or anything. He pleases parliament for the 2007 ban on

smoking in public places. One of the staunchest supporters was Bristol

West MP Stephen Williams, whose work has been recognised with an award

from the world health organisation. Presenting it, Health Minister Anna

Soubry. It was all part of making smoking socially unacceptable. That

had a big impact on me. Government is thought to have

stalled on standardised packaging, she hasn't. The result is a bit of

resistance, and certainly that can be said about the ban on smoking in

public places. All these years later, with the huge success of it,

you think back to it, and say, how was that not ever seen is a great

idea? It has beautifully handwritten Vogue, and they are very alluding to

young people. This is what they would like to see the place it. --

replace it. This is the sort of pack we are keen that they bring in

because it tones down all those holograms, all those pretty Paschal

collars. The idea is spreading. is a, Australia became the first

place to make the change. Ireland is following suit. Research at Bristol

University showed people different packs and work to be impact with

people, especially those who aren't committed smokers. We used an eye

tracker to see exactly where people looked at packets, and what we found

is that standardised packaging increases the amount of time people

look at the health warning. Fighting the change are big, profitable firms

like Imperial Tobacco have their headquarters here in south Bristol.

The industry has lobbied hard and spent money on newspaper and

magazine advertisements. They have proved much more reluctant to

publicly face journalist questions. A spokesman declined request for an

interview, admitting that doing TV can be counter-productive. They gave

us a statement saying that standardised packaging would make it

easier for counterfeiters and that half a million people had indicated

they were against plain packaging. One of their former employees

disagrees. George Bookham hopes it could detect them people from

starting. Knowing what I know now on the medical side, I think that is a

good idea. You can still put on their warnings or whatever, but

people want a packet of cigarettes. They will soon get used to what the

packet is and what is inside it. may not be a question of whether,

more a matter of when. Joining the debate is Simon Clark,

the director of Forest. We will continue in a moment or two. Stephen

Williams, why wasn't this in the Queen's Speech? Why is the

Government going to on this idea? The Government has done a

consultation exercise on whether people favour plain and standardised

packaging, and those results are being sifted through. It is also on

behalf of the Welsh, and Northern Irish governments. I'm hopeful it

will go ahead. I confident all the ministers in the Department of

Health wanted to happen. There is a discussion as to whether it will

happen. There is overwhelming goodwill towards the needs of the

public, but also to health campaigners as well. It is pretty

cynical, isn't it? Your campaign against standardised packaging which

would take the glamour away from packets of cigarettes which look

appealing. I would say it is a fallacy that children start smoking

because of so-called glitzy packaging. There is no credible

evidence to suggest that. For years, it has been accepted that teenagers

start smoking because of family influence or because of pier

pressure. Packaging had nothing to do with it. There is no credible

evidence that plain packaging would actually stop young people smoking

or convince adult smokers to give up. Only one country in the world...

Only one country in the world has introduced this kind of packaging,

which is still you. It is far too early to draw conclusions. You have

opposed every move to try and limit smoking in public places and all the

rest of it. Isn't this just exactly what you always do? That is not true

at all. I am like everyone here. I don't want to see children smoking.

We will support all reasonable measures to discourage that. We

suspected -- we supported region the age of which cigarettes should be

sold to children to 18 years old. We don't think that plain packaging is

reasonable that it will work. Looking at the Imperial website, as

I did this afternoon, it is about growth. They want more and more

sales. I am here to represent the consumer, and this is all about the

normalisation. We receive funding from the organisation, but why

should... But you represent the industry customer --? We represent

the consumer. Experts, retired and seven Place officers, for example,

believe it will help illicit trade and increase false cigarettes.

Criminal gangs will sell to children. Stephen Williams, if all

cigarette packets look the same, then you might just as well buy the

cheapest and the might be counterfeit with all sorts of

rubbish in them. Counterfeit cigarettes are a big problem, that

needs to be dealt with. It can be done the moment with the existing

design of packs. Having a standardised design is not go to

make it any more easy or difficult for criminal gangs to do that. Simon

says there is no evidence that tobacco companies use glitzy

packaging to attract children into smoking, but why do they do it? Why

do they have cigarettes packaged with lipstick chips? I have seen

packaging in the shape of iPods or camera phones, obviously designed to

appeal to teenagers. If these tactics don't work why do they do

then? It is a legitimate industry, they pay their taxes. Why should

customers be treated like scum? Well, anyone who is in favour of

treating 's customers like scum... I don't think any parent would

rationally once the child to start smoking, but most people start

smoking in their mid to late teens. But what I am about is trying to put

everything we can, all our values, of stopping cigarettes appealing to

susceptible minds. I do have a slight concern of, is this the tip

of the iceberg? Will we get to the stage where there is no branding on

beer taps and -- in pubs quit you might -- in pubs? We do need to

drive down the number of smokers. How we package cigarettes is one way

of doing it. Encouraging healthy lifestyles is another. Advertising

campaigns of showing the impact of smoking on the human body is also

important. There is room for what Stephen is doing, but we need to do

much more. That is a slippery slope, because confidence in Ireland last

week called for plain packaging on alcohol. That is the way we're

going, will be state intervenes in perfectly legitimate businesses and

them of their intellectual property. At the same time, they have asked

consumers, and yet, tobacco is perfectly legal. Would you say the

same thing if we were saying the same thing and a cancer ward and not

in this nice to you? I think adults should make an informed choice, and

that is what most adults do. Time to take a spin through the

other political stories in our 62nd round up. -- 60 seconds round-up.

Drivers beware. There will be more speeding tickets issued in even and

Somerset if the new Chief Constable gets his own way. He has written to

local councils offering them help to switch councils back on. More than a

year, this 22-year-old has been at the battle with the council.

He says the council has acted illegally by shutting down dedicated

youth services. Three judges and the appeal court will take the final

decision. Weston General Hospital has been

issued with more warnings that it must improve after failing to meet

five out of six national standards. The local MP says it is not good

enough. And congratulations to Tony

Robinson, the left-wing Bristol activist and actor who has been made

in night. Sir Tony says he will use the statist to boost his campaigns

for better care homes for the elderly.

What would Blackadder say? Let's pick up on one of those subjects,

speed cameras. The new Chief Constable in Avon and Somerset one

symptom back on. What do you think, James? As I have been going around

in my constituency, people are concerned with the speeds that

people drive. I would say that where cameras are placed to genuinely

improve road safety, there is a place for them. It is a suspicion

that they might have been previously put in place to maximise revenues.

We need to need sure safety is the priority. The danger is they do

criminalise tens of thousands of motorists? Deservedly so, in that

case. Speed kills. One of the lessons I learned 20 years ago when

I was first elected to the council -- county council was a

demonstration by road safety officers at what happens when a car

hit you at 20 mph, 30 mph and 40 mph. There is a catastrophic

difference. Driving at speed is a huge danger. Is there evidence that

cameras stop that? It must change the behaviour of people.

shouldn't be doing it anyway. you ever been over 30 with your Mac

-- over 30? No-one is a saint, but speed cameras can make a difference.

That is all we have time for this week. Thank you to our guests for

joining us. If you want to e-mail us with your comments or stories, the