23/06/2013 Sunday Politics West


23/06/2013

Andrew Neil and David Garmston with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 23/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

that's recycling their old ways of doing things. Yes, Swindon are left

:01:11.:01:14.

red-faced as they admit it's cheaper to bring essential services back

:01:14.:01:24.
:01:24.:01:24.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2115 seconds

:01:24.:36:39.

programme. 20 minutes of political debate to come. How council services

:36:39.:36:43.

like this in Swindon are changing to save money but was it a rubbish idea

:36:43.:36:49.

to involve private enterprise in the first place? Joining us today to

:36:49.:36:53.

members of the European Parliament whose parties are often at war with

:36:53.:36:57.

each other. Sometimes they are good friends. They Julie Girling and

:36:57.:37:05.

William Dartmouth, a Tory peer who defected to the UK Independence

:37:05.:37:11.

Party in 2007. Welcome. First the renegotiation of our terms

:37:11.:37:16.

in Europe. How's that going? It has not started because the

:37:16.:37:19.

renegotiation that the prime and Steph has talked about is predicated

:37:19.:37:24.

on winning the 20 15th election so he can go forward with the 2017

:37:24.:37:30.

in-out referendum based on the situation. What are your colleagues

:37:30.:37:40.
:37:40.:37:40.

saying? I lay saying it is a good idea or not? Some say it is

:37:40.:37:45.

absolutely unthinkable and they cannot do anything. That the UK

:37:45.:37:47.

won't do anything. Privately, depending on the country, our

:37:47.:37:55.

colleagues have their own bit of the relationship with the youth that

:37:55.:37:59.

they want to renegotiate. There is support across the board depending

:37:59.:38:06.

on the issue. We are already seeing that. What more could you want?

:38:06.:38:12.

have to get the agreement of all 27 EU member states, which is highly

:38:12.:38:17.

unlikely. Anything they come away with, as Nigel Lawson said, or he

:38:18.:38:25.

wrote it, will be inconsequential. In the next couple of weeks, Croatia

:38:25.:38:30.

is becoming a member of the European Union, which is another poor country

:38:30.:38:35.

with a GDP per capita half of that which we enjoy in the UK, which the

:38:35.:38:39.

British taxpayer will have to pay for. It also highlights the fact

:38:39.:38:43.

that the establishment parties, Conservative, Labour and to them

:38:43.:38:48.

want six more very poor countries, such as Turkey, to become members of

:38:48.:38:53.

the European Union. What you are saying is that when they go to

:38:53.:38:58.

European Union they will not give an inch but when we leave they will

:38:58.:39:05.

want to trade with us anyway? saying that the renegotiation is

:39:05.:39:13.

something that was floated by David Cameron for internal reasons of the

:39:13.:39:22.

Conservative party. There is no king 's -- there is no consistency to it.

:39:22.:39:29.

We will put a date in the diary for that discussion. Can I just say that

:39:29.:39:32.

UKIP are a long way from knowing what the negotiating position is in

:39:32.:39:37.

the EU because they do not participate. They may be members of

:39:37.:39:39.

parliament but they don't participate in the work SO how they

:39:40.:39:49.
:39:50.:39:51.

would know how the negotiations will go... You are not part of the

:39:51.:40:00.

European Parliament's discussion on anything. Moving on, the scandal of

:40:00.:40:04.

the Care Quality Commission, which is meant to be our ayes and ears in

:40:04.:40:06.

care homes and hospitals making sure that people are properly looked

:40:06.:40:09.

after. The commission is accused of

:40:09.:40:13.

covering up failings and looking after its own interests instead of

:40:13.:40:17.

ours was the it comes as no surprise to one care worker from Somerset who

:40:17.:40:23.

blew the whistle at the institution where she worked.

:40:23.:40:26.

This week, the Care Quality Commission has been in the aye of a

:40:26.:40:30.

storm over how it responds to concerns about patient care. The

:40:30.:40:34.

waves of concern go back many years. All the way to this care home in

:40:35.:40:44.

Somerset and how it's manager, Rachel Baker, were siphoning off

:40:44.:40:51.

money. She is now in prison for killing one of the residents. Sarah

:40:51.:40:56.

Barnett thinks that the CQC is not fit for purpose. The trouble is, the

:40:56.:41:00.

last government founded difficult to stomach some of those truths. It was

:41:00.:41:03.

easier to give the inspections to a tame body who can gloss over things

:41:03.:41:06.

that were difficult and the problems you are seeing now are legacy from

:41:06.:41:12.

that decision back in 2005 to put appearance over reality. More

:41:12.:41:16.

recently, questions over how the CQC response to whistleblowers have been

:41:16.:41:19.

raised by the scandal of Winterbourne View. Adults with

:41:19.:41:27.

learning disabilities were filmed being abused, hit and taunted. This

:41:27.:41:32.

nurse says that the regulator failed to respond to his concerns. In the

:41:32.:41:34.

past, CQC inspections have been criticised for only scratching the

:41:34.:41:41.

surface, so now the watchdog is launching a public consultation on

:41:41.:41:45.

its plans to upgrade inspections of the NHS. The first public meeting

:41:45.:41:50.

nationally is in Bristol in a weeks time.

:41:50.:41:55.

We asked the care quality commission to speak to us today but there was

:41:55.:41:57.

no one available for comment. We can meet the whistleblower, Sarah

:41:58.:42:04.

Barnett, who we saw in the film there. Thank you for joining us.

:42:04.:42:08.

Give us the background. You are working at this care home and what

:42:08.:42:13.

sort of raised your concerns? things back then. I had concerns

:42:13.:42:19.

about medication, the rate of deaths within the home, documentation,

:42:19.:42:24.

numerous concerns at the time. This was going on at you decided that you

:42:24.:42:27.

had to get some assistance in this. What happened when you try to raise

:42:27.:42:32.

the alarm? More importantly, there was an inspection by the regulatory

:42:32.:42:38.

body that deemed the home save and meeting all needs for the residents.

:42:38.:42:44.

That delayed me raising my concerns and made me question myself. There

:42:44.:42:47.

were six more deaths at the home before I eventually contacted the

:42:47.:42:52.

regulatory body to have a meeting with them to report things. What

:42:52.:42:57.

happened then? Then it was incredibly fast moving and the

:42:57.:43:01.

police became involved and it was a criminal enquiry. Unfortunately, the

:43:01.:43:05.

residents had to leave their home and the manager of the home was

:43:05.:43:11.

convicted of manslaughter. What are your thoughts about the performance

:43:12.:43:16.

now they Care Quality Commission? Naively, I think I had I issued at

:43:16.:43:21.

the time it was quite traumatic for many people involved, that this

:43:21.:43:27.

would not happen again. I think that is what is so desperately sad.

:43:27.:43:33.

Family cases do we need in a decade, with Winterbourne View and

:43:33.:43:42.

Parkfields Care Home and so on? I am not surprised. Why is it not

:43:42.:43:48.

working? Our expectations for this body are too wide-ranging. The

:43:48.:43:58.
:43:58.:44:00.

portfolio is too enormous. I don't think anybody could cover everything

:44:00.:44:05.

in one remote and provide regulation for it. What is the answer?

:44:05.:44:10.

Independent inspectorate bodies. That is what it is posted be, isn't

:44:10.:44:17.

it? I don't think it is. It cannot be independent if it is that a

:44:17.:44:24.

government run body. It is whether this needs to go back down to

:44:24.:44:30.

community areas. Certainly need to be split down into specialist areas

:44:30.:44:35.

so acute trusts are not treated in the same way as dentistry and small

:44:35.:44:40.

residential trust. Institutions that provide bad care are often good at

:44:40.:44:44.

covering it up, aren't they? They probably are but on the other hand

:44:44.:44:50.

they are not necessarily try to covered cover it up. The sad thing

:44:50.:44:53.

is that our confidence will be lost in the care home industry, right

:44:53.:44:59.

through to the NHS Trust. There are fantastic front-line workers and in

:44:59.:45:05.

any care situation, that is based on an amount of trust. What this has

:45:05.:45:09.

done and what he CQC has done is destroy that trust. They are not

:45:09.:45:18.

here, we did invite them, as I said. I bet they say that the we do not

:45:18.:45:25.

see the good work that they do. We would be blind not to see the

:45:25.:45:27.

mistakes and we would be irresponsible if we did not deal

:45:27.:45:31.

with them. That is the problem. We have enquiries and serious case

:45:31.:45:36.

reviews and this report and there are recommendations and actions to

:45:36.:45:40.

be made from them. Where are these actions? Where are these

:45:40.:45:48.

recommendations? When will we have legislation? Let us bring in our

:45:48.:45:55.

politicians. Any suggestions? We have seen the culture of secrecy,

:45:55.:46:00.

which I hope has been blown apart a little bit. We have taken away

:46:00.:46:04.

hiding behind the data protection act. That is a good sign. Clearly

:46:04.:46:09.

anything that happens is a bad thing. We have got to get it in

:46:09.:46:12.

proportion. I think possibly the government needs to look at

:46:12.:46:18.

resources to make sure that there is enough there to do the job properly.

:46:18.:46:21.

We have been wasting our resources on gagging clauses rather than

:46:21.:46:25.

sorting anything out. That has come out this week as well. That issue of

:46:25.:46:31.

gagging clauses and data protection is up for public discussion now.

:46:31.:46:35.

can shine a light on it and pick some changes. Are there any lessons

:46:36.:46:41.

we can learn from across the Channel? I don't think they are

:46:41.:46:47.

reading about this scandal in continental Europe. The important

:46:47.:46:52.

point is that gagging orders should be completely out. We have just read

:46:52.:46:58.

that the NHS has spent �28 million of taxpayers money on gagging

:46:58.:47:04.

orders. What is it they are trying to conceal? The BBC has spent �22

:47:04.:47:09.

million of licence payers money on gagging orders. I haven't seen any

:47:09.:47:18.

of it! I'm just reporting the papers. These gagging orders should

:47:18.:47:24.

be made illegal for public bodies. We have to leave it there. Thank you

:47:24.:47:30.

for coming in. Do you know what your Jordan are up to when they are on

:47:30.:47:32.

the computer? The government is worried that kids are being allowed

:47:32.:47:40.

unsupervised access to the Internet. Claire Perry is leading a campaign

:47:40.:47:50.
:47:50.:47:51.

to make it harder 14 ages to gain access -- for teenagers to gain

:47:52.:47:58.

access to pornography. This is a philosophical issue. If we have 22%

:47:58.:48:03.

of people saying how they are concerned how easy it is to gain

:48:03.:48:06.

access to adult content, we have to do something. We are not

:48:06.:48:11.

legislating. It is an area where the governance should start wading in

:48:11.:48:18.

and passing laws? What we should be doing is working with the Internet

:48:18.:48:22.

service providers, the top four of whom have about 90% of the market

:48:22.:48:26.

and saying you are involved in this, what are you going to do about

:48:26.:48:32.

it? We should have filters that protect all of the devices in the

:48:32.:48:35.

home. They need to be more robust. The other area that we debated last

:48:35.:48:43.

week, quite hotly, was the issue of material that is unequivocally

:48:43.:48:53.

illegal, images of children. That material is not acceptable in the UK

:48:53.:48:57.

so why is it still available? That is an area of concern across made

:48:57.:49:00.

apartments will stop the safeguard we want is we do not want people to

:49:00.:49:06.

be able to access it either online or in the off-line world. Many

:49:06.:49:11.

people say should be blocked but it is the access that children may may

:49:11.:49:14.

not have that is the more contentious issue. That is a matter

:49:14.:49:19.

for mum and dad. You say that but we know that mum and dad... Is it

:49:19.:49:25.

really? In every other industry, including the BBC, we have not just

:49:25.:49:30.

said to parents, the BBC will broadcast whatever it likes, 24-hour

:49:30.:49:36.

is a day and it is your job to turn it off. We don't say that you take

:49:36.:49:41.

pot luck about the films you see at the cinema. We accept a partnership

:49:41.:49:46.

between government, companies and consumers in the media to help keep

:49:46.:49:54.

children safe. On the Internet, it is different. When I first started

:49:54.:49:59.

using the Internet in 1996, that may have been true. But now it is such a

:49:59.:50:01.

mainstream way of communicating and transmitting content that I don't

:50:01.:50:07.

think that ideology applies any more. We have got to do more. We

:50:07.:50:10.

know it is a great concern. I don't pick regulation is the right way to

:50:10.:50:15.

do it but we have got to work together and deliver better filters.

:50:15.:50:20.

Have you turned into a modern Mary Whitehouse? I have been called many

:50:21.:50:29.

things and I don't care about the insults... It is not an insult!

:50:29.:50:34.

is utter nonsense. We already have filters that are available that are

:50:34.:50:37.

provided for every individual device in our home. You have to download

:50:37.:50:42.

them onto everything. I don't know how the Internet enabled the vices

:50:42.:50:46.

you have, probably quite a few. We know that parents do not do that, it

:50:46.:50:51.

is too difficult and two, located, they don't understand it. What we

:50:51.:50:54.

are saying is that companies have got to do more, produce better

:50:54.:51:01.

filters and we need to educate people about how to do that. Should

:51:01.:51:04.

parents have access to their children's computers, their

:51:04.:51:09.

passwords, their codes for their mobile phones? Does it not depend on

:51:09.:51:16.

the age of the child? I have teenage children and it is a matter of

:51:16.:51:23.

judgement. People are paying for these contracts, you cannot engage

:51:23.:51:29.

in a contract until you are 18. Should we not have some

:51:29.:51:32.

responsibility to make sure that we know who our children's

:51:32.:51:38.

conversations happening with? The mobile phone companies put him place

:51:38.:51:44.

and adult content bar seat cannot get access to adult content and you

:51:44.:51:48.

prove you are 18. It is not censorship, it is common sense.

:51:48.:51:57.

Thank you. A company set up to save Swindon taxpayers money has cost

:51:57.:52:04.

them dear. It is only FUD is since councillors

:52:04.:52:10.

passed road maintenance and rubbish collection to Swindon Commercial

:52:10.:52:16.

Services. Now it is what being brought back in.

:52:16.:52:20.

Councils are trying to seek better, cheaper ways of delivering public

:52:20.:52:25.

services. In Swindon, they thought they had done that. Dozens of staff

:52:25.:52:31.

were transferred to Swindon Commercial Services.

:52:31.:52:38.

When SCCS became a company in 2010, hopes were high. The official aim

:52:38.:52:45.

was that it would benefit services and increase revenue return. It has

:52:45.:52:52.

been far from the case. The additional costs of this stand-alone

:52:52.:53:00.

company are from 1.5 to �2 million a year.

:53:00.:53:05.

So the administration is set to bring most of it back in-house. It

:53:05.:53:10.

is easy through hindsight to say it was not the right decision. We never

:53:10.:53:17.

expected the events that have happened to have happened. You could

:53:17.:53:22.

argue it is a little embarrassing. Labour councillors warned that the

:53:22.:53:27.

expected savings could fail to materialise once again. They dressed

:53:27.:53:32.

it up as the greatest thing since sliced bread, this company. Now they

:53:32.:53:37.

are bringing it back because that is the best thing to do. Either they

:53:37.:53:41.

were wrong then they are wrong now. In my view, they were wrong both

:53:41.:53:45.

times. The council have you believe that this lot are losing money. They

:53:45.:53:49.

did not make as much money as they were predicted to make and that is

:53:49.:53:52.

not their fault. It is because of some of the things that the council

:53:52.:53:57.

itself has done. It has driven down the amount of money that they are

:53:57.:54:03.

prepared to pay for the services that they are provided. 550 staff

:54:03.:54:06.

will go back to being council employees for now. Services will

:54:06.:54:11.

then be reconfigured and cuts are inevitable. We will do everything we

:54:11.:54:19.

can to protect jobs but we have to live in the rule world which says

:54:19.:54:25.

that the government are talking about reducing the level of support

:54:25.:54:31.

to local government across the country and my area of concern now

:54:31.:54:38.

is delivering in Swindon. We Jews, reuse and recycle. A philosophy not

:54:38.:54:45.

just for Swindon residents but also, it seems, their counsel.

:54:45.:54:50.

Councillors are trying to make ends meet, not necessarily successfully,

:54:50.:55:00.

you want even more cuts, don't you? Rubbish disposal has been made more

:55:00.:55:03.

expensive by EU directives. The landfill directive which was brought

:55:03.:55:10.

about by your predecessor, Caroline Jackson, which has made rubbish

:55:10.:55:16.

disposal more offensive across the country. That would go under UKIP?

:55:16.:55:21.

We would be able to make our own rules in our own way, in our own

:55:22.:55:29.

national interest. Using free enterprise doesn't always work,

:55:29.:55:34.

where does this end? It does not always work but it does sometimes. I

:55:34.:55:39.

was the leader of the council when we bought in privatising waste

:55:39.:55:44.

collection. It worked well 15 years ago and it is still going on. It has

:55:44.:55:49.

expanded and is in cooperation with other councils and is now doing

:55:49.:55:52.

extreme the well. It is one of the highest performing in the country.

:55:52.:55:55.

Swindon has had a different experience and I don't know the

:55:55.:55:59.

details of it but I think local government is local, it is about

:55:59.:56:05.

making local decisions that are right for your area and Swindon... I

:56:05.:56:08.

take my hat off to them. They said it was a mistake, they are going

:56:08.:56:13.

back to try and do something different. It is quite a fresh and

:56:13.:56:15.

because you hear politicians say that they won't go back on

:56:15.:56:25.
:56:25.:56:35.

something, they keep ploughing the Minister on Foster has promised

:56:35.:56:40.

extra money this week to bring empty hands back into use.

:56:40.:56:49.

There is no special treatment for his local area. We have had to

:56:49.:56:55.

targeted on those areas where the problems are most acute. In Bristol,

:56:55.:57:00.

the mayor has been gearing up for his first car free Sunday. He is

:57:00.:57:04.

getting tough on traffic across the city. He is considering a low

:57:04.:57:07.

emission zone on top of his plans for residents parking zones. He has

:57:07.:57:15.

coming from some stinging criticism from councillors who say his plans

:57:15.:57:20.

are ill thought out. I am always juggling the different parties! And

:57:20.:57:26.

UKIP's Alex Wood says that the police have cleared him of making

:57:26.:57:32.

racist comments. He was suspended after it was said he made racist

:57:32.:57:38.

images and comment on his Facebook page. Let us pick up on that UKIP

:57:38.:57:41.

story, as you are here. It seems this young man may have

:57:41.:57:45.

been stitched up. What is your reaction? The national

:57:45.:57:49.

newspaper that stitched him up and carry that paper that may have been

:57:49.:57:59.
:57:59.:58:01.

done by photo shop, on the front page. He said it was out of context,

:58:01.:58:09.

not photo shop. We are a party that challenges the establishment

:58:09.:58:15.

parties, particularly on the European Union but also on

:58:15.:58:20.

immigration. In consequence, we do get a lot of abuse, led by the Prime

:58:20.:58:26.

Minister, David Cameron. You are hardly outside of the

:58:26.:58:33.

establishment. The UK Independence Party is and that is what we are

:58:33.:58:38.

talking about. We're not talking about me. We do attract a lot of

:58:38.:58:46.

abuse. You don't like being called fruitcakes and all of that? It is

:58:46.:58:48.

not something that used to belong in the discourse of national political

:58:48.:58:58.
:58:58.:58:59.

life. A serious politician should have nothing to do it. I have been

:58:59.:59:06.

accused by something by UKIP, cleared of it for days later. I'm

:59:06.:59:12.

not complaining about that. It sounds like you are complaining!

:59:12.:59:21.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS