23/06/2013 Sunday Politics West

that's recycling their old ways of doing things. Yes, Swindon are left

red-faced as they admit it's cheaper to bring essential services back

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2115 seconds

programme. 20 minutes of political debate to come. How council services

like this in Swindon are changing to save money but was it a rubbish idea

to involve private enterprise in the first place? Joining us today to

members of the European Parliament whose parties are often at war with

each other. Sometimes they are good friends. They Julie Girling and

William Dartmouth, a Tory peer who defected to the UK Independence

Party in 2007. Welcome. First the renegotiation of our terms

in Europe. How's that going? It has not started because the

renegotiation that the prime and Steph has talked about is predicated

on winning the 20 15th election so he can go forward with the 2017

in-out referendum based on the situation. What are your colleagues

saying? I lay saying it is a good idea or not? Some say it is

absolutely unthinkable and they cannot do anything. That the UK

won't do anything. Privately, depending on the country, our

colleagues have their own bit of the relationship with the youth that

they want to renegotiate. There is support across the board depending

on the issue. We are already seeing that. What more could you want?

have to get the agreement of all 27 EU member states, which is highly

unlikely. Anything they come away with, as Nigel Lawson said, or he

wrote it, will be inconsequential. In the next couple of weeks, Croatia

is becoming a member of the European Union, which is another poor country

with a GDP per capita half of that which we enjoy in the UK, which the

British taxpayer will have to pay for. It also highlights the fact

that the establishment parties, Conservative, Labour and to them

want six more very poor countries, such as Turkey, to become members of

the European Union. What you are saying is that when they go to

European Union they will not give an inch but when we leave they will

want to trade with us anyway? saying that the renegotiation is

something that was floated by David Cameron for internal reasons of the

Conservative party. There is no king 's -- there is no consistency to it.

We will put a date in the diary for that discussion. Can I just say that

UKIP are a long way from knowing what the negotiating position is in

the EU because they do not participate. They may be members of

parliament but they don't participate in the work SO how they

would know how the negotiations will go... You are not part of the

European Parliament's discussion on anything. Moving on, the scandal of

the Care Quality Commission, which is meant to be our ayes and ears in

care homes and hospitals making sure that people are properly looked

after. The commission is accused of

covering up failings and looking after its own interests instead of

ours was the it comes as no surprise to one care worker from Somerset who

blew the whistle at the institution where she worked.

This week, the Care Quality Commission has been in the aye of a

storm over how it responds to concerns about patient care. The

waves of concern go back many years. All the way to this care home in

Somerset and how it's manager, Rachel Baker, were siphoning off

money. She is now in prison for killing one of the residents. Sarah

Barnett thinks that the CQC is not fit for purpose. The trouble is, the

last government founded difficult to stomach some of those truths. It was

easier to give the inspections to a tame body who can gloss over things

that were difficult and the problems you are seeing now are legacy from

that decision back in 2005 to put appearance over reality. More

recently, questions over how the CQC response to whistleblowers have been

raised by the scandal of Winterbourne View. Adults with

learning disabilities were filmed being abused, hit and taunted. This

nurse says that the regulator failed to respond to his concerns. In the

past, CQC inspections have been criticised for only scratching the

surface, so now the watchdog is launching a public consultation on

its plans to upgrade inspections of the NHS. The first public meeting

nationally is in Bristol in a weeks time.

We asked the care quality commission to speak to us today but there was

no one available for comment. We can meet the whistleblower, Sarah

Barnett, who we saw in the film there. Thank you for joining us.

Give us the background. You are working at this care home and what

sort of raised your concerns? things back then. I had concerns

about medication, the rate of deaths within the home, documentation,

numerous concerns at the time. This was going on at you decided that you

had to get some assistance in this. What happened when you try to raise

the alarm? More importantly, there was an inspection by the regulatory

body that deemed the home save and meeting all needs for the residents.

That delayed me raising my concerns and made me question myself. There

were six more deaths at the home before I eventually contacted the

regulatory body to have a meeting with them to report things. What

happened then? Then it was incredibly fast moving and the

police became involved and it was a criminal enquiry. Unfortunately, the

residents had to leave their home and the manager of the home was

convicted of manslaughter. What are your thoughts about the performance

now they Care Quality Commission? Naively, I think I had I issued at

the time it was quite traumatic for many people involved, that this

would not happen again. I think that is what is so desperately sad.

Family cases do we need in a decade, with Winterbourne View and

Parkfields Care Home and so on? I am not surprised. Why is it not

working? Our expectations for this body are too wide-ranging. The

portfolio is too enormous. I don't think anybody could cover everything

in one remote and provide regulation for it. What is the answer?

Independent inspectorate bodies. That is what it is posted be, isn't

it? I don't think it is. It cannot be independent if it is that a

government run body. It is whether this needs to go back down to

community areas. Certainly need to be split down into specialist areas

so acute trusts are not treated in the same way as dentistry and small

residential trust. Institutions that provide bad care are often good at

covering it up, aren't they? They probably are but on the other hand

they are not necessarily try to covered cover it up. The sad thing

is that our confidence will be lost in the care home industry, right

through to the NHS Trust. There are fantastic front-line workers and in

any care situation, that is based on an amount of trust. What this has

done and what he CQC has done is destroy that trust. They are not

here, we did invite them, as I said. I bet they say that the we do not

see the good work that they do. We would be blind not to see the

mistakes and we would be irresponsible if we did not deal

with them. That is the problem. We have enquiries and serious case

reviews and this report and there are recommendations and actions to

be made from them. Where are these actions? Where are these

recommendations? When will we have legislation? Let us bring in our

politicians. Any suggestions? We have seen the culture of secrecy,

which I hope has been blown apart a little bit. We have taken away

hiding behind the data protection act. That is a good sign. Clearly

anything that happens is a bad thing. We have got to get it in

proportion. I think possibly the government needs to look at

resources to make sure that there is enough there to do the job properly.

We have been wasting our resources on gagging clauses rather than

sorting anything out. That has come out this week as well. That issue of

gagging clauses and data protection is up for public discussion now.

can shine a light on it and pick some changes. Are there any lessons

we can learn from across the Channel? I don't think they are

reading about this scandal in continental Europe. The important

point is that gagging orders should be completely out. We have just read

that the NHS has spent �28 million of taxpayers money on gagging

orders. What is it they are trying to conceal? The BBC has spent �22

million of licence payers money on gagging orders. I haven't seen any

of it! I'm just reporting the papers. These gagging orders should

be made illegal for public bodies. We have to leave it there. Thank you

for coming in. Do you know what your Jordan are up to when they are on

the computer? The government is worried that kids are being allowed

unsupervised access to the Internet. Claire Perry is leading a campaign

to make it harder 14 ages to gain access -- for teenagers to gain

access to pornography. This is a philosophical issue. If we have 22%

of people saying how they are concerned how easy it is to gain

access to adult content, we have to do something. We are not

legislating. It is an area where the governance should start wading in

and passing laws? What we should be doing is working with the Internet

service providers, the top four of whom have about 90% of the market

and saying you are involved in this, what are you going to do about

it? We should have filters that protect all of the devices in the

home. They need to be more robust. The other area that we debated last

week, quite hotly, was the issue of material that is unequivocally

illegal, images of children. That material is not acceptable in the UK

so why is it still available? That is an area of concern across made

apartments will stop the safeguard we want is we do not want people to

be able to access it either online or in the off-line world. Many

people say should be blocked but it is the access that children may may

not have that is the more contentious issue. That is a matter

for mum and dad. You say that but we know that mum and dad... Is it

really? In every other industry, including the BBC, we have not just

said to parents, the BBC will broadcast whatever it likes, 24-hour

is a day and it is your job to turn it off. We don't say that you take

pot luck about the films you see at the cinema. We accept a partnership

between government, companies and consumers in the media to help keep

children safe. On the Internet, it is different. When I first started

using the Internet in 1996, that may have been true. But now it is such a

mainstream way of communicating and transmitting content that I don't

think that ideology applies any more. We have got to do more. We

know it is a great concern. I don't pick regulation is the right way to

do it but we have got to work together and deliver better filters.

Have you turned into a modern Mary Whitehouse? I have been called many

things and I don't care about the insults... It is not an insult!

is utter nonsense. We already have filters that are available that are

provided for every individual device in our home. You have to download

them onto everything. I don't know how the Internet enabled the vices

you have, probably quite a few. We know that parents do not do that, it

is too difficult and two, located, they don't understand it. What we

are saying is that companies have got to do more, produce better

filters and we need to educate people about how to do that. Should

parents have access to their children's computers, their

passwords, their codes for their mobile phones? Does it not depend on

the age of the child? I have teenage children and it is a matter of

judgement. People are paying for these contracts, you cannot engage

in a contract until you are 18. Should we not have some

responsibility to make sure that we know who our children's

conversations happening with? The mobile phone companies put him place

and adult content bar seat cannot get access to adult content and you

prove you are 18. It is not censorship, it is common sense.

Thank you. A company set up to save Swindon taxpayers money has cost

them dear. It is only FUD is since councillors

passed road maintenance and rubbish collection to Swindon Commercial

Services. Now it is what being brought back in.

Councils are trying to seek better, cheaper ways of delivering public

services. In Swindon, they thought they had done that. Dozens of staff

were transferred to Swindon Commercial Services.

When SCCS became a company in 2010, hopes were high. The official aim

was that it would benefit services and increase revenue return. It has

been far from the case. The additional costs of this stand-alone

company are from 1.5 to �2 million a year.

So the administration is set to bring most of it back in-house. It

is easy through hindsight to say it was not the right decision. We never

expected the events that have happened to have happened. You could

argue it is a little embarrassing. Labour councillors warned that the

expected savings could fail to materialise once again. They dressed

it up as the greatest thing since sliced bread, this company. Now they

are bringing it back because that is the best thing to do. Either they

were wrong then they are wrong now. In my view, they were wrong both

times. The council have you believe that this lot are losing money. They

did not make as much money as they were predicted to make and that is

not their fault. It is because of some of the things that the council

itself has done. It has driven down the amount of money that they are

prepared to pay for the services that they are provided. 550 staff

will go back to being council employees for now. Services will

then be reconfigured and cuts are inevitable. We will do everything we

can to protect jobs but we have to live in the rule world which says

that the government are talking about reducing the level of support

to local government across the country and my area of concern now

is delivering in Swindon. We Jews, reuse and recycle. A philosophy not

just for Swindon residents but also, it seems, their counsel.

Councillors are trying to make ends meet, not necessarily successfully,

you want even more cuts, don't you? Rubbish disposal has been made more

expensive by EU directives. The landfill directive which was brought

about by your predecessor, Caroline Jackson, which has made rubbish

disposal more offensive across the country. That would go under UKIP?

We would be able to make our own rules in our own way, in our own

national interest. Using free enterprise doesn't always work,

where does this end? It does not always work but it does sometimes. I

was the leader of the council when we bought in privatising waste

collection. It worked well 15 years ago and it is still going on. It has

expanded and is in cooperation with other councils and is now doing

extreme the well. It is one of the highest performing in the country.

Swindon has had a different experience and I don't know the

details of it but I think local government is local, it is about

making local decisions that are right for your area and Swindon... I

take my hat off to them. They said it was a mistake, they are going

back to try and do something different. It is quite a fresh and

because you hear politicians say that they won't go back on

something, they keep ploughing the Minister on Foster has promised

extra money this week to bring empty hands back into use.

There is no special treatment for his local area. We have had to

targeted on those areas where the problems are most acute. In Bristol,

the mayor has been gearing up for his first car free Sunday. He is

getting tough on traffic across the city. He is considering a low

emission zone on top of his plans for residents parking zones. He has

coming from some stinging criticism from councillors who say his plans

are ill thought out. I am always juggling the different parties! And

UKIP's Alex Wood says that the police have cleared him of making

racist comments. He was suspended after it was said he made racist

images and comment on his Facebook page. Let us pick up on that UKIP

story, as you are here. It seems this young man may have

been stitched up. What is your reaction? The national

newspaper that stitched him up and carry that paper that may have been

done by photo shop, on the front page. He said it was out of context,

not photo shop. We are a party that challenges the establishment

parties, particularly on the European Union but also on

immigration. In consequence, we do get a lot of abuse, led by the Prime

Minister, David Cameron. You are hardly outside of the

establishment. The UK Independence Party is and that is what we are

talking about. We're not talking about me. We do attract a lot of

abuse. You don't like being called fruitcakes and all of that? It is

not something that used to belong in the discourse of national political

life. A serious politician should have nothing to do it. I have been

accused by something by UKIP, cleared of it for days later. I'm

not complaining about that. It sounds like you are complaining!