13/10/2013 Sunday Politics West


13/10/2013

Andrew Neil and David Garmston are joined by the new Scottish secretary, Alistair Carmichael, Ken Clarke, Chris Huhne and Labour MP Diane Abbott.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 13/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, welcome to the veritable Sunday Politics. We have Alastair

:00:41.:00:47.

Charmichael. We'll ask him what Sunday Politics. We have Alastair

:00:47.:00:52.

Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps has that his predecessor Michael

:00:52.:00:56.

Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps going on and on and on. He'll bang

:00:56.:01:03.

Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne

:01:03.:01:06.

Coming up here: Clamping down on illegal immigrants — the man in

:01:06.:01:18.

says we've misunderstood the problem of human trafficking and that men

:01:18.:01:36.

pundits who we try to shuffle out of a job but failed miserably, Mick

:01:36.:01:41.

watt, Miranda Green Andijan an Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if

:01:41.:01:50.

Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen

:01:50.:01:59.

a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could

:01:59.:02:07.

Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the

:02:07.:02:13.

Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools

:02:13.:02:16.

after all. Here he is on the BBC viewers. If you are a group of

:02:16.:02:25.

parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting

:02:25.:02:28.

parents, social entrepreneurs, school in areas where you need new

:02:29.:02:32.

school place, the Labour Government will be on your side. That's free

:02:32.:02:34.

enterprise and innovation. It will will be on your side. That's free

:02:34.:02:40.

be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It

:02:40.:02:46.

teachers in these schools. And accountability. What is going on

:02:46.:02:59.

with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael

:02:59.:03:07.

changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have

:03:07.:03:10.

changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and

:03:10.:03:13.

changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of

:03:13.:03:16.

reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

:03:16.:03:24.

of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

:03:24.:03:31.

Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying

:03:31.:03:35.

Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip

:03:35.:03:41.

from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of

:03:42.:03:47.

need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,

:03:47.:03:52.

we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set

:03:52.:03:58.

these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

:03:58.:04:06.

polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've

:04:06.:04:12.

polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael

:04:12.:04:14.

Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.

:04:14.:04:18.

And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy

:04:19.:04:25.

debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.

:04:25.:04:29.

This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.

:04:30.:04:33.

This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which

:04:33.:04:38.

is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?

:04:38.:04:46.

They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free

:04:46.:04:52.

only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I

:04:52.:04:57.

always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed

:04:57.:05:02.

Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether

:05:02.:05:06.

they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried

:05:06.:05:12.

the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the

:05:12.:05:16.

Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is

:05:16.:05:21.

no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say

:05:21.:05:25.

what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free

:05:25.:05:28.

schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet

:05:29.:05:35.

defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.

:05:35.:05:44.

If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they

:05:44.:05:55.

unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of

:05:56.:06:00.

higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience

:06:00.:06:05.

he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for

:06:05.:06:09.

Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD

:06:09.:06:18.

from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper

:06:18.:06:24.

teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not

:06:24.:06:34.

have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never

:06:34.:06:39.

been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow

:06:39.:06:48.

free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to

:06:48.:06:53.

Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do

:06:53.:06:58.

the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more

:06:58.:07:10.

#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,

:07:10.:07:15.

rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping

:07:15.:07:22.

beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in

:07:22.:07:27.

and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street

:07:27.:07:31.

and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to

:07:31.:07:34.

see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the

:07:34.:07:38.

back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started

:07:39.:07:47.

can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties

:07:47.:07:51.

changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.

:07:51.:07:57.

Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit

:07:57.:08:04.

Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm

:08:04.:08:10.

disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been

:08:10.:08:15.

able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one

:08:15.:08:18.

imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and

:08:18.:08:34.

simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of

:08:34.:08:42.

the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic

:08:42.:08:58.

Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet

:08:58.:09:02.

Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

:09:02.:09:05.

ranks were shifting too. The PM Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

:09:05.:09:09.

to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and

:09:09.:09:12.

turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men

:09:12.:09:20.

backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends

:09:20.:09:23.

of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers

:09:23.:09:30.

of George Osborne. And, all the learning of Labour's changes. Labour

:09:30.:09:33.

too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.

:09:33.:09:37.

Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de

:09:37.:09:43.

peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing

:09:43.:09:47.

peer row would be hard to describe past out of the picture seemed to be

:09:47.:09:51.

the name of the day. Liam Byrne With Diane Abbott also gone, was

:09:52.:09:58.

this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right

:09:58.:10:00.

used to mean someone who wanted depends what you mean. Blair right

:10:00.:10:03.

Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely

:10:03.:10:07.

with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain

:10:07.:10:11.

with him. Now it means sometimes of ideologyies or ideas. There are

:10:11.:10:14.

still very much those kind of Blair rights within the party. But we

:10:14.:10:17.

still very much those kind of Blair seeing the group around Tony Blair

:10:17.:10:20.

are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was

:10:20.:10:27.

over. New bees were sharing the ministers quietly thanked commits

:10:27.:10:32.

raters. Or -- commiserators. Or ministers quietly thanked commits

:10:32.:10:46.

disified. How much much someone standing here might want it to be

:10:46.:10:51.

the case, you are unlikely to get someone coming out of that do going

:10:51.:10:58.

"how could." And running off crying! And the brand, spanking new Scottish

:10:58.:11:04.

Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins us from Orkney on a line that hasn't

:11:04.:11:12.

been used since the fleet was used in the outbreak of World War I! I

:11:12.:11:17.

wasn't around at the time. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Why

:11:17.:11:21.

wasn't around at the time. I'm you agreed to run a department?

:11:21.:11:25.

wasn't around at the time. I'm you wanted to abolish six years

:11:25.:11:30.

wasn't around at the time. I'm Hello? Maybe our connections are not

:11:30.:11:31.

Charmichael. Can you hear me? I Hello? Maybe our connections are not

:11:31.:11:37.

hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.

:11:37.:11:42.

Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department

:11:42.:11:43.

you wanted to abolish six years have you agreed to run a department

:11:43.:11:50.

Because this is the, probably one of the most important jobs in British

:11:50.:11:54.

politics at the moment. To ensure that Scotland remains part of the

:11:54.:12:00.

UK. Even when I was talking about the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs

:12:00.:12:06.

of Scotland -- representation of Scotland within Whitehall, there was

:12:06.:12:10.

always a job to be done. That is true in spades now. I will focus on

:12:10.:12:14.

making sure the UK Government has a real voice in that debate. What

:12:14.:12:18.

making sure the UK Government has a you that Michael Moore didn't have?

:12:18.:12:18.

Look, I think Michael Moore did you that Michael Moore didn't have?

:12:18.:12:24.

excellent job. The work he did delivering the Edinburgh agreement

:12:24.:12:32.

clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to

:12:32.:12:40.

substantial piece of work. I'm not friend of mine. I will say that

:12:40.:12:47.

substantial piece of work. I'm not we go forward into this, this is now

:12:47.:12:47.

about the actual debate itself. we go forward into this, this is now

:12:47.:12:52.

will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to

:12:52.:13:01.

just some abstract debate about nationhood, sovereignty, this is a

:13:02.:13:08.

their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot

:13:08.:13:16.

challenge. I understand that. But if you're being put in there to save

:13:16.:13:24.

the union, every pole has the no -- poll has the no campaign margin

:13:24.:13:30.

alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing pretty well to save the union. I

:13:30.:13:34.

suspect you've been given the job to Scotland? And lieu, you misread

:13:34.:13:42.

suspect you've been given the job to situation if you -- Andrew, you

:13:42.:13:44.

misread the situation new think anybody is going to be the person

:13:45.:13:48.

who will save the union. The people who will save the union are the

:13:48.:13:50.

people of Scotland if they turn who will save the union are the

:13:50.:13:54.

next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for

:13:54.:13:58.

that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own

:13:58.:14:04.

party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You

:14:04.:14:11.

were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in

:14:11.:14:18.

fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the

:14:18.:14:22.

Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for

:14:22.:14:25.

everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for

:14:25.:14:29.

a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could

:14:29.:14:34.

have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and

:14:34.:14:38.

for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in

:14:38.:14:45.

three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition

:14:45.:14:50.

survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I

:14:50.:14:54.

was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.

:14:54.:14:59.

So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.

:14:59.:15:04.

As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also

:15:04.:15:08.

As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls

:15:08.:15:11.

are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in

:15:11.:15:14.

the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next

:15:14.:15:19.

election nor the referendum is one or lost yet. One of the things I

:15:19.:15:24.

really want to be guarding against because we are a good margin ahead

:15:24.:15:32.

today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.

:15:32.:15:40.

Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal

:15:40.:15:43.

Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the

:15:43.:15:52.

You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should

:15:52.:16:02.

David Cameron face him? I am happy debate. Should David Cameron face

:16:03.:16:14.

him? No, because that allows Alex Nationalists to portray this as

:16:14.:16:18.

him? No, because that allows Alex sort of contest or choice between a

:16:18.:16:22.

vision of Scottish social democracy and English conservativism, which it

:16:22.:16:24.

is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to

:16:24.:16:30.

be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

:16:30.:16:38.

Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

:16:38.:16:43.

not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,

:16:43.:16:47.

the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name

:16:47.:16:57.

wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described

:16:57.:17:03.

the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were

:17:03.:17:10.

you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I

:17:10.:17:17.

think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I

:17:17.:17:23.

we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we

:17:23.:17:30.

are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we

:17:30.:17:35.

hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has

:17:35.:17:41.

published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the

:17:41.:17:50.

head. I am not giving up the battle for the hearts and Scotland because

:17:50.:17:55.

there is a good strong case, as somebody who is proud to be Scottish

:17:55.:17:57.

and to be British, for Scotland somebody who is proud to be Scottish

:17:57.:18:03.

remain part of the UK. You come somebody who is proud to be Scottish

:18:03.:18:09.

distilleries and I understand you celebratory drink for your new post.

:18:09.:18:14.

Not a drop has touched my lips. celebratory drink for your new post.

:18:14.:18:21.

supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the

:18:21.:18:26.

supporting local business! I will be of November, I will be doing it

:18:26.:18:28.

supporting local business! I will be aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if

:18:28.:18:34.

website, they can donate. It is worthwhile. I cannot think of a

:18:34.:18:39.

better cause. One Cabinet minister who many thought might get Reef

:18:39.:18:50.

better cause. One Cabinet minister Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics.

:18:50.:18:53.

minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I

:18:53.:19:03.

would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it

:19:03.:19:08.

would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy

:19:08.:19:11.

it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry

:19:11.:19:13.

on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry

:19:13.:19:19.

I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

:19:19.:19:24.

survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this

:19:24.:19:30.

reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,

:19:30.:19:37.

asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

:19:37.:19:47.

role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

:19:47.:19:51.

of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.

:19:51.:19:56.

You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why

:19:56.:20:02.

You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to

:20:02.:20:05.

achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since

:20:05.:20:11.

I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get

:20:11.:20:16.

governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems

:20:16.:20:20.

is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is

:20:20.:20:25.

is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.

:20:25.:20:28.

The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you

:20:28.:20:30.

might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you

:20:30.:20:34.

bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you

:20:34.:20:37.

that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you

:20:37.:20:40.

experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the

:20:40.:20:43.

Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on

:20:43.:20:50.

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

:20:50.:20:56.

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

:20:56.:21:03.

on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and

:21:03.:21:12.

representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have

:21:12.:21:19.

firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

:21:19.:21:23.

Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is

:21:23.:21:27.

Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in

:21:27.:21:32.

Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after

:21:32.:21:37.

the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last

:21:37.:21:44.

the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme

:21:44.:21:49.

nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party

:21:49.:21:54.

must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are

:21:54.:22:00.

desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to

:22:00.:22:07.

referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get

:22:07.:22:12.

across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing

:22:12.:22:15.

across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the

:22:15.:22:16.

commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do

:22:16.:22:21.

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

:22:21.:22:29.

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

:22:29.:22:35.

influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on

:22:35.:22:40.

influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we

:22:40.:22:47.

spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being

:22:47.:22:52.

threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will

:22:52.:23:00.

threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.

:23:00.:23:04.

It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be

:23:04.:23:07.

seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I

:23:07.:23:16.

seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice

:23:16.:23:24.

was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and

:23:24.:23:28.

leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in

:23:29.:23:32.

even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I

:23:33.:23:41.

got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I

:23:41.:23:45.

investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.

:23:45.:23:54.

investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward

:23:54.:24:01.

the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that

:24:01.:24:05.

the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to

:24:05.:24:09.

That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:09.:24:14.

particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:14.:24:22.

Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:22.:24:24.

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

:24:24.:24:34.

one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it

:24:34.:24:39.

would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the

:24:39.:24:43.

dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a

:24:43.:24:54.

strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree

:24:54.:25:00.

persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives

:25:00.:25:06.

Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a

:25:06.:25:10.

ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and

:25:10.:25:14.

ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the

:25:14.:25:19.

Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong

:25:19.:25:25.

Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced

:25:25.:25:30.

terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in

:25:30.:25:36.

the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I

:25:36.:25:40.

have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you

:25:40.:25:42.

get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you

:25:42.:25:46.

themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this

:25:46.:25:53.

country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I

:25:53.:25:59.

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not

:25:59.:26:03.

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to

:26:03.:26:07.

that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed

:26:07.:26:11.

that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently

:26:11.:26:16.

upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government

:26:16.:26:20.

I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you

:26:20.:26:27.

have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern

:26:27.:26:36.

us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided

:26:36.:26:44.

going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,

:26:44.:26:49.

anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the

:26:49.:26:51.

Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in

:26:51.:27:25.

disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit

:27:25.:27:28.

disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing

:27:28.:27:30.

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

:27:30.:27:32.

prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from

:27:32.:27:35.

former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in

:27:35.:27:39.

the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a

:27:39.:27:43.

political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is

:27:43.:27:46.

clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your

:27:47.:27:49.

career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I

:27:49.:27:54.

career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am

:27:54.:27:57.

passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things

:27:57.:28:02.

on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,

:28:02.:28:09.

on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian

:28:09.:28:09.

on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian

:28:09.:28:13.

of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on

:28:13.:28:20.

political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of

:28:20.:28:24.

political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he

:28:24.:28:28.

rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was

:28:28.:28:32.

actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same

:28:32.:28:38.

thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why

:28:38.:28:44.

thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not

:28:44.:28:47.

offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?

:28:47.:29:17.

coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own

:29:17.:29:23.

Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are

:29:23.:29:30.

going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib

:29:30.:29:33.

Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib

:29:33.:29:40.

interesting election because I think you will have essentially three

:29:40.:29:46.

party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a

:29:46.:29:54.

battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,

:29:54.:30:01.

the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't

:30:01.:30:12.

the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections,

:30:12.:30:16.

the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind

:30:16.:30:16.

leadership be in jeopardy? I've could come fourth on fifth behind

:30:17.:30:25.

in countless cycles where we've could come fourth on fifth behind

:30:25.:30:30.

very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general

:30:30.:30:35.

election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in

:30:35.:30:40.

jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I

:30:40.:30:41.

think he'll lead the party into at the next general election. I

:30:41.:30:45.

next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most

:30:45.:30:48.

people think. If we are heading we'll do much better than most

:30:48.:30:52.

another hung Parliament, which is Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

:30:52.:30:56.

coalition with the Labour Party Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

:30:56.:31:00.

have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to

:31:00.:31:06.

colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour

:31:06.:31:10.

Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of

:31:10.:31:15.

the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is

:31:15.:31:20.

the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because

:31:21.:31:23.

we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't

:31:23.:31:29.

take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to

:31:29.:31:33.

coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with

:31:33.:31:37.

either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer

:31:37.:31:42.

Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It

:31:42.:31:46.

is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things

:31:46.:31:53.

you get that with one party rather than another, that's fine. You stand

:31:53.:31:56.

up for Liberal Democrat values, than another, that's fine. You stand

:31:56.:31:59.

for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping

:31:59.:32:04.

up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise

:32:04.:32:10.

up your interest in energy matters. temporary price freeze? There's

:32:10.:32:13.

up your interest in energy matters. pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a

:32:13.:32:18.

sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which

:32:18.:32:23.

led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift

:32:23.:32:27.

everybody automatically to the unfortunately we're at the stage in

:32:27.:32:34.

the political cycle where we are getting clap trap. You're against

:32:34.:32:41.

the freeze? It is a bad idea when we are trying to encourage investment.

:32:41.:32:45.

When the market can give us some of the lowest gas and electricity

:32:45.:32:50.

son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian

:32:50.:32:54.

prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our

:32:54.:32:58.

base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look

:32:58.:33:04.

at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after

:33:04.:33:06.

all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after

:33:06.:33:10.

green taxes is George Osborne with should no better. One the-hip ok

:33:10.:33:51.

not want it. We do not need it to agreement because the Conservatives

:33:51.:34:00.

not want it. We do not need it to electricity system. It was a revenue

:34:00.:34:02.

raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about

:34:02.:34:07.

green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,

:34:07.:34:12.

wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style

:34:12.:34:17.

press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it

:34:18.:34:21.

refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither

:34:21.:34:27.

refuses to sign up to the Leveson nor there. The Guardian gives me a

:34:27.:34:30.

up to what you believe in will you up to what you believe in will you

:34:30.:34:36.

support it? No because I'm sure they'll allow me to make that that

:34:36.:34:41.

point. I think newspapers will sign up for it. They've had a collapse in

:34:41.:34:45.

public trust and confidence in recent years. Unparalleled. They

:34:45.:34:50.

need a third party endorsement to say these guys have cleaned up their

:34:50.:34:54.

act. If they are going to get trust haven't signed up, which they won't,

:34:54.:34:59.

you can come back and we'll talk You're watching the Sunday politics.

:34:59.:35:06.

Thank you, Andrew, and welcome to the part of the programme just for

:35:06.:35:22.

us in the West. Coming up today the part of the programme just for

:35:22.:35:27.

on the campaign to reduce the number of immigrants entering the UK. These

:35:27.:35:31.

controversial billboards were signed off by the Forest of Dean MP Mark

:35:31.:35:36.

Harper, who will be telling us why, if they proved to work, they could

:35:36.:35:38.

be back on the streets. Joining if they proved to work, they could

:35:38.:35:45.

Snelgrove, a helper to Gordon Brown at number ten. She's standing again

:35:45.:35:50.

at the next election. And Mark immigration. Mark was born in and's

:35:50.:35:57.

old constituency but moved as soon as possible. It will soon be January

:35:57.:36:04.

and the remaining and Bulgarians will be entitled to come and live

:36:04.:36:11.

here. How many are you expecting? We've been very sensible not to

:36:11.:36:16.

here. How many are you expecting? and make a forecast. The previous

:36:16.:36:19.

government said there would be 13,000 people coming from Eastern

:36:19.:36:21.

Europe but it turned out to be nearly 600,000. There are eight

:36:21.:36:27.

controls at the moment who are all going to take them off at the end of

:36:27.:36:30.

the year. Our advisers said trying to put a number on it was a fool's

:36:30.:36:36.

errand. It's worrying that you have no idea. Romanians can already come

:36:36.:36:41.

here if they are self—employed or come here to study, and they can

:36:41.:36:45.

come here if they are in certain kinds of occupation. They will be

:36:45.:36:51.

able to do other things in the New Year. Interestingly, the most recent

:36:51.:36:55.

numbers of people coming from Europe are not from Eastern Europe but

:36:55.:36:58.

numbers of people coming from Europe other countries like Spain and

:36:58.:37:01.

Portugal staying for longer because there are economy is under such

:37:01.:37:06.

pressure. Wages here are five times what they are in Bulgaria. But there

:37:06.:37:10.

are costs involved in coming and the polling that has been done does

:37:11.:37:13.

are costs involved in coming and the support the contention there are

:37:13.:37:17.

lots of people waiting to come. We've got tougher rules and stuff

:37:17.:37:25.

that claims you can't... But you're would be a guess. We've heard about

:37:25.:37:31.

what was going on at number ten would be a guess. We've heard about

:37:31.:37:36.

Damian McBride. Were you aware of this poisonous activity at the heart

:37:37.:37:39.

of government? Know and I never this poisonous activity at the heart

:37:39.:37:46.

Mr McBride. He had long gone before I got into number ten. Just as we

:37:46.:37:51.

want to concentrate on policy now, it is very important that we get

:37:51.:37:58.

is nasty it is horrible and he got the boot for being like that. Were

:37:58.:38:04.

you covering up for some strange behaviour by Mr Brown and some of

:38:04.:38:10.

his acolytes? Jee, not at all. He absolutely was not. The last year of

:38:10.:38:23.

Miliband is now concentrating on policy renewal and looking at what

:38:23.:38:28.

we can do to help people in the future with things like energy

:38:28.:38:34.

politics is the politics of the Illegal immigrant will find it

:38:34.:38:43.

government is planning to ban their access to health care and housing,

:38:43.:38:46.

stop them driving and clamp down on sham marriages. But critics say

:38:46.:38:51.

stop them driving and clamp down on proposals will turn us all into

:38:51.:38:57.

This is the image the government likes to project — officials taking

:38:57.:39:02.

immigrant. And it's going to get tougher still with the announcement

:39:03.:39:07.

of new legislation. What this bill does is make it harder for people

:39:07.:39:10.

who are here illegally to be able to carry on living here, so access

:39:10.:39:16.

who are here illegally to be able to the things that people use on a

:39:16.:39:18.

licences and bank accounts will become harder under the proposals.

:39:18.:39:24.

Hers is the fifth immigration bill since 2000 and will force those

:39:24.:39:28.

Hers is the fifth immigration bill temporary visas seeking health to

:39:28.:39:32.

pay a contribution. Banks will have to check immigration records before

:39:32.:39:36.

opening accounts. A driving licence will depend on immigration status,

:39:36.:39:40.

as will accommodation and landlords landlords don't know, and how are

:39:40.:39:53.

have the training or the expertise. They're not qualified to do that.

:39:53.:39:58.

What Theresa May seems to be trying to do is turn us into a nation of

:39:58.:40:01.

immigration officers will stop this is wholly wrong. The voters may

:40:01.:40:08.

disagree. Politicians see how UKIP Immigration concerns are large and

:40:08.:40:15.

sometimes exaggerated. A recent Immigration concerns are large and

:40:15.:40:22.

perceived to be immigrants but the official figure is 13%. There we are

:40:22.:40:41.

sensitive for Labour. Chris Bryant visited Bristol on a nationwide

:40:41.:40:47.

sensitive for Labour. Chris Bryant to develop policy. We are not just

:40:47.:40:49.

telling stories. Our cases are different and every case is unique

:40:49.:40:55.

in its own way. He showed sympathy for these asylum seekers. Labour are

:40:55.:41:00.

anxious to prove they have toughened their stance, however. When Poland

:41:00.:41:08.

and Latvia joined the EU, other countries like Germany and France

:41:08.:41:09.

said they couldn't come here to countries like Germany and France

:41:09.:41:12.

from day one. We should have done the same and I think the problem was

:41:12.:41:17.

that because we went alone, it meant everybody from those countries

:41:17.:41:20.

wanted to come here and that did have an effect on people at the

:41:20.:41:23.

lower end of the labour market particularly. Labour haven't said

:41:23.:41:27.

too much about the controversial poster vans which toured several

:41:27.:41:31.

London borrowers this summer, huts wary of public opinion. It's a

:41:31.:41:37.

fantastic idea. We need to clean up the mess. The people who are legally

:41:37.:41:44.

entitled are being deprived of jobs. It's a massive problem but it's

:41:44.:41:47.

entitled are being deprived of jobs. really the way to deal with it.

:41:47.:41:49.

entitled are being deprived of jobs. wouldn't ask a criminal on the side

:41:49.:41:50.

of a van to go to prison. Maybe wouldn't ask a criminal on the side

:41:50.:41:55.

isn't the way to do it but everyone has to abide by the law in the UK.

:41:55.:42:00.

The public mood has hardened. There is less tolerance, more demand for

:42:00.:42:05.

change. But politics isn't just about what is popular but what is

:42:05.:42:13.

Joining us is an Iraqi asylum seeker living in Bristol and Doctor Naomi

:42:13.:42:25.

University. Let's start with you first of all. People expect you

:42:25.:42:29.

University. Let's start with you be firm about immigration but are

:42:29.:42:31.

you now sympathy being unkind? People expect us to be firm and

:42:31.:42:38.

you now sympathy being unkind? and we have very sensible processes

:42:38.:42:39.

for dealing with asylum, which we'll be talking about shortly. Britain is

:42:39.:42:44.

a welcoming country for people who love a good claim to be here but we

:42:44.:42:50.

expect people to play by the rules. But you are trying to create a

:42:50.:42:52.

illegal immigrants that is what But you are trying to create a

:42:52.:43:01.

claiming asylum while the claim But you are trying to create a

:43:01.:43:03.

being processed, we want to be welcoming. For those who have not

:43:03.:43:09.

had their claim granted and have had the chance to appeal, we want them

:43:09.:43:13.

to leave the country. If someone needs urgent health care... They

:43:13.:43:20.

will get it. It is a National Health Service not an international health

:43:20.:43:24.

service. Was the poster campaign your idea? It was something I signed

:43:24.:43:29.

off in the Home Office. It was a pilot and we are evaluating the

:43:29.:43:40.

results. How many people went home? I was making the point in the House

:43:40.:43:43.

of Commons this week that it cost £10,000. I said that if only one

:43:43.:43:48.

person went home as a result, it will have paid for itself. At least

:43:48.:43:54.

one did. I believe it has been banned by the advertising standards

:43:54.:44:02.

agency. Just let me finish. When we autumn, people can judge. If it

:44:02.:44:08.

agency. Just let me finish. When we successful we will continue and

:44:08.:44:10.

agency. Just let me finish. When we not, we won't. Even UKIP said it was

:44:10.:44:19.

nasty. It was about focusing on people who are illegal immigrant is

:44:19.:44:22.

and don't have the right to be in Britain. Anne, the people who suffer

:44:22.:44:29.

immigration are the work because they are priced out of jobs. ——

:44:29.:44:38.

immigration are the work because poor. That was Labour's fort, wasn't

:44:38.:44:44.

in the slightest. In the first illegal immigrant or migrants sent

:44:44.:44:54.

home at the ports. In the second quarter of this year, 2013, only

:44:54.:45:02.

14,000 were sent home at port entry. Labour encouraged immigration,

:45:02.:45:05.

didn't it? We didn't encourage illegal immigration. But what we had

:45:05.:45:12.

were some very firm controls which are not now being practised by this

:45:12.:45:15.

government. What people want is effective immigration and illegal

:45:15.:45:23.

immigration controlled. Ed Miliband immigration policy. What we've

:45:23.:45:36.

apologised for, as Chris Bryant said, is that we made a mistake

:45:36.:45:38.

about allowing Eastern European said, is that we made a mistake

:45:38.:45:43.

to come in just before everybody else did, so they came to this

:45:43.:45:44.

country first. I don't think we else did, so they came to this

:45:44.:45:49.

a mistake on a number of immigration issues because we were very firm and

:45:49.:45:56.

very tough but you have to be fair. Welcome to this studio. You are

:45:56.:46:02.

very tough but you have to be fair. Iraq. Tell us your story. Thank

:46:02.:46:03.

very tough but you have to be fair. very much, first of all, and I want

:46:03.:46:11.

illegal person. I am an asylum seeker. My life in my country is in

:46:11.:46:19.

danger, that's why I left my family and everything. I came here, I

:46:19.:46:35.

Asylum seekers for centuries have come here. You didn't believe me and

:46:35.:46:44.

I know my story is true. The system did not believe me. I didn't want to

:46:44.:46:50.

interrupt you but you've been turned down for asylum how many times? Five

:46:50.:46:56.

times they didn't believe me. And it because my life is in danger there.

:46:56.:47:09.

I will continue trying to get my right to get a safe place. We are

:47:09.:47:14.

very clear. His case has been looked at very carefully by the government

:47:14.:47:16.

and we didn't find it credible. at very carefully by the government

:47:16.:47:20.

have a fair system where he is able to go through a legal process. The

:47:20.:47:24.

judge said parts of his claim were not credible and ridiculous. I'm

:47:24.:47:27.

afraid he has no right to be in not credible and ridiculous. I'm

:47:27.:47:36.

Would you consider that? My life is in danger in my country, that is why

:47:36.:47:38.

I can't return. My friends here in danger in my country, that is why

:47:38.:47:47.

community. But their ability is limited. I want to ask you, can

:47:47.:48:04.

community. But their ability is With the greatest respect, when

:48:04.:48:05.

community. But their ability is were claiming asylum the taxpayer

:48:05.:48:08.

supported you. You now have no right to be in the UK and should return

:48:08.:48:13.

home. My life is in danger. We don't believe you and neither did the

:48:13.:48:20.

judge. There is no room for them. They are living in the park and

:48:20.:48:25.

judge. There is no room for them. bus shelter. My friends are helping

:48:25.:48:27.

me and giving me a place to sleep and giving me clothes. I want to

:48:27.:48:36.

bring in Naomi. The question of getting tough on immigration is

:48:36.:48:38.

because the public are loud and clear about it. I work with four

:48:38.:48:43.

refugee organisations in Bristol and we have a network of researchers who

:48:43.:48:48.

are very concerned that the UK is pursuing a deliberate policy of

:48:48.:48:52.

destitution, trying to put off people from coming here. The recent

:48:52.:49:02.

report produced by the home affairs department suggested that alongside

:49:02.:49:07.

Amnesty International, human rights are being contravened. I work with

:49:07.:49:15.

destitute because they are trying to get evidence. I have seen people

:49:15.:49:18.

being refused from the same region for opposite reasons. There have

:49:18.:49:21.

been whistle—blowing reports in for opposite reasons. There have

:49:21.:49:24.

Guardian to suggest that the people qualified. It suggests there are

:49:24.:49:30.

problems with the way the process is taking place. To then refused to

:49:30.:49:35.

provide accommodation, the right to work, health to these people...

:49:35.:49:40.

Hard—working families will be sat there in credulous that someone

:49:40.:49:43.

Hard—working families will be sat had a chance to go through a system,

:49:43.:49:46.

they've had a decision, appealed it to a judge, have been found not

:49:46.:49:49.

they've had a decision, appealed it have the need for our protection.

:49:49.:49:52.

They will find it incredible that the taxpayer should be expected

:49:52.:49:54.

They will find it incredible that continue to fund them when they

:49:54.:49:57.

don't have the right to live here. It doesn't give the world the right

:49:57.:50:02.

to come to the United Kingdom. It is chance and not hard work which

:50:02.:50:07.

is... We are generous at protecting people who are genuinely fleeing

:50:07.:50:12.

persecution. If people abuse our system, it will damage the British

:50:12.:50:15.

people's tolerance. If people don't interpretation and legal aid, they

:50:16.:50:21.

will not be able to make their claims. Why is there a queue of

:50:21.:50:27.

people to come here if it is so difficult? Twice as many people

:50:27.:50:35.

people to come here if it is so accepted for asylum in France and

:50:35.:50:39.

Germany as the UK last year. Asylum seekers are only 4% of the migrant

:50:39.:50:40.

population. They are being made seekers are only 4% of the migrant

:50:40.:50:45.

scapegoat for a much broader raft of political and economic problems

:50:45.:50:49.

scapegoat for a much broader raft of the UK. The system itself needs

:50:49.:50:50.

scapegoat for a much broader raft of be looked at, opened up and dressed

:50:50.:50:53.

with honesty and not just with rhetoric. We have to leave it there.

:50:53.:51:02.

We've heard a lot about Mark's role as the minister for immigration

:51:02.:51:06.

We've heard a lot about Mark's role what is it actually like to juggle

:51:06.:51:07.

constituency work and that famous red box? This week our political

:51:07.:51:11.

reporter is headed to London to red box? This week our political

:51:11.:51:18.

The summer recess has well and truly faded and conference season is

:51:18.:51:23.

behind us as well. Our West Country MPs made their way back to the

:51:23.:51:26.

hustle and bustle of the Westminster bubble recently. I've got letters to

:51:26.:51:29.

sign and other things to clear. bubble recently. I've got letters to

:51:29.:51:36.

course, on top of that, I've got my constituency responsibilities. It is

:51:36.:51:41.

quite a full day. It keeps us busy and my constituents get value for

:51:41.:51:44.

money for what they pay me. That will be up to the voters in the

:51:44.:51:52.

Forest of Dean to decide, of course. When we met Mark, he had been up

:51:52.:52:04.

From the plush the rantings of the Home Office to his MP office. The

:52:04.:52:10.

constituency work never stops, so add in a ministerial job, it's extra

:52:10.:52:19.

pay and responsibilities, and it makes for a long day. It's a price

:52:19.:52:23.

Mark is willing to pay. We've seen this week with the reshuffle that

:52:23.:52:27.

you so at the best of the Prime Minister. I'm very lucky that he's

:52:27.:52:31.

asked me to do what is a job that is very important for the country and

:52:31.:52:36.

which most of my constituents would think is important and I think most

:52:36.:52:37.

of them would support the moves think is important and I think most

:52:37.:52:42.

are making. On Friday it's back think is important and I think most

:52:42.:52:43.

the constituency. Do the voters think is important and I think most

:52:43.:52:47.

agreed? It gives us credibility think is important and I think most

:52:47.:52:49.

Parliament if we've got somebody Conservative party? I think with the

:52:49.:53:00.

is maybe trying to get a grip on it but I don't think he's succeeding at

:53:01.:53:05.

the moment. In all honesty, I don't think it helps an awful lot. We

:53:05.:53:09.

the moment. In all honesty, I don't feel that he should be looking after

:53:09.:53:17.

us a bit more. With 11 out of the time they can spend solving local

:53:17.:53:24.

issues is reduced. We've all got a high workload and work long hours.

:53:25.:53:33.

constituency just like everybody else and we do the work of the

:53:33.:53:37.

constituents. What about your home life? It's 8pm. It's not regular

:53:37.:53:46.

that you would be out for a pint. Last time you had a pint, you got

:53:46.:53:51.

into trouble, didn't you? We talked about this earlier. As a minister,

:53:51.:53:57.

you have your book box and we all get our homework every night. The

:53:57.:54:01.

only time during the summer but get our homework every night. The

:54:01.:54:06.

didn't have a read box, people will be familiar with the fat that I

:54:06.:54:13.

didn't have a read box, people will out doing some dancing and had a

:54:13.:54:15.

serious injury to my foot, which, fortunately, has now healed, which

:54:15.:54:17.

most of my constituents seem to fortunately, has now healed, which

:54:17.:54:22.

thought was a huge handicap my career! It is a fine line to walk,

:54:22.:54:28.

being a minister, surely the perks outweigh the pitfalls. Just ask

:54:28.:54:32.

being a minister, surely the perks of the West's MPs who were sacked

:54:32.:54:37.

Looks pretty odd to me. Why do people want to get elected and be

:54:37.:54:42.

ministers? I have no idea, to be honest. It is a nightmare. It is a

:54:42.:54:47.

very busy time and, frankly, I had enough to do when I was a PPS. It is

:54:47.:54:53.

round—the—clock and people don't get enough sleep. But there's something

:54:53.:54:57.

about it that you love otherwise people wouldn't be so upset about

:54:57.:55:03.

being sacked. When you get elected as an MP and as and is, it's because

:55:03.:55:07.

most people go into politics because they think they can make the country

:55:07.:55:12.

particularly, you hope you'll be able to make changes in the right

:55:12.:55:16.

direction. The public get to choose whether they think you've made a

:55:16.:55:18.

good job but that's why people do Westminster with all the kowtowing

:55:18.:55:27.

from the rest of us? I don't think there is any kowtowing. I think

:55:27.:55:30.

from the rest of us? I don't think exactly the opposite — who do you

:55:30.:55:31.

Time now for our weekly look at exactly the opposite — who do you

:55:31.:55:45.

The West's controversial badger exactly the opposite — who do you

:55:45.:55:48.

could now continue into November. Paterson said their planning is

:55:48.:55:54.

could now continue into November. to blame. It's those pesky badgers

:55:54.:56:00.

who moved the goalposts again. We're dealing with a wild animal, subject

:56:00.:56:04.

to the vagaries of weather and disease and breeding patterns.

:56:04.:56:08.

Confirmation, to, from him that they're considering gassing badgers

:56:08.:56:15.

These Lib Dems were booted out of reshuffle. Jeremy Browne lost his

:56:15.:56:20.

job at the Home Office and David Campaigners took up residence in

:56:20.:56:27.

Miss Appletree to stop campaigners from dropping it down. The badger

:56:27.:56:35.

set here was what they were trying This protester has been charged

:56:35.:56:46.

set here was what they were trying Let's pick up on the badger story.

:56:46.:56:49.

The badger is moving the goalposts again, as your minister said. This

:56:49.:56:53.

is going on in your constituency — do you approve? I do. There is no

:56:53.:56:59.

enthusiasm for it. We've got a very difficult situation. Bovine TB has

:56:59.:57:03.

been increasing very quickly over the last few years. But it's an

:57:03.:57:11.

utter failure. I think the evidence from this week is that we've made

:57:11.:57:19.

considerable progress. We have been necessary and the evidence from

:57:19.:57:25.

other countries is that you've got to get a grip on the disease. It's

:57:25.:57:30.

nonsense. It's costing £4 million to police this failed cull and they've

:57:30.:57:35.

had to ask for extension. All it's going to do is disperse badgers

:57:35.:57:38.

had to ask for extension. All it's TB to other parts of Gloucestershire

:57:38.:57:38.

and Somerset where they haven't TB to other parts of Gloucestershire

:57:38.:57:43.

TB before. Friendly, this idea of gassing badgers, which will gas

:57:43.:57:50.

horrendous. It is failed science and failed humanity. I'm not a big fan

:57:50.:57:55.

at all. That's all we've got time for today. Banks to our two guests

:57:55.:58:05.

for joining us. —— thank you. The programme will be available on the

:58:05.:58:08.

and these tactics were plain wrong. That is all we have time for. Back

:58:08.:58:12.

ministerial team this week with That is all we have time for. Back

:58:12.:58:26.

commentators calling it the purge of the Blairites, but one poor lamb who

:58:26.:58:31.

fell victim to this perch was Diane Abbott, not somebody who worshipped

:58:31.:58:36.

at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on the backbenches means she can pursue

:58:36.:58:40.

other interests such as attending the Cheltenham literary Festival,

:58:40.:58:47.

and where she joins us now. Welcome. Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:47.:58:51.

think the thing that did it for Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:51.:58:58.

was me coming out on Syria. This was Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:59.:59:05.

a purge of the Blairites, how did you become collateral damage? I

:59:05.:59:10.

a purge of the Blairites, how did no idea but the fact that I was

:59:10.:59:12.

a purge of the Blairites, how did one member of the front bench to go

:59:12.:59:14.

public about my concerns on Syria probably tipped my enemies in the

:59:14.:59:21.

party machinery over the edge. But he went your way on Syria, in the

:59:21.:59:25.

end he agreed with your line on Syria so why would that be for

:59:25.:59:33.

dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke

:59:33.:59:37.

dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,

:59:37.:59:39.

which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,

:59:39.:59:48.

forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like

:59:48.:59:55.

people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I

:59:55.:00:12.

think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People

:00:12.:00:14.

increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People

:00:14.:00:21.

I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr

:00:21.:00:27.

Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his

:00:27.:00:34.

best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour

:00:34.:00:38.

Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour

:00:38.:00:43.

will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be

:00:43.:00:49.

loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be

:00:50.:00:54.

loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others

:00:54.:00:58.

were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to

:00:59.:01:05.

were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly

:01:05.:01:07.

around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy

:01:07.:01:11.

with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,

:01:11.:01:20.

with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are

:01:20.:01:24.

very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The

:01:24.:01:28.

issue of free schools, they are to see how this all plays out. The

:01:28.:01:32.

thing. But diminishing the role to see how this all plays out. The

:01:32.:01:34.

local authorities is another. There need strong local authorities. I'm

:01:34.:01:42.

local authorities is another. There sure Tristram will be aware of that.

:01:42.:01:44.

As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories

:01:44.:01:50.

have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms

:01:50.:01:56.

of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would

:01:56.:01:57.

you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would

:01:57.:02:05.

haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and

:02:05.:02:10.

see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the

:02:10.:02:15.

papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for

:02:15.:02:20.

Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor

:02:20.:02:25.

Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what

:02:25.:02:25.

Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what

:02:25.:02:30.

me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the

:02:30.:02:34.

same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know

:02:34.:02:42.

going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your

:02:42.:02:52.

old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what

:02:52.:02:57.

would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot

:02:57.:03:07.

of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have

:03:07.:03:16.

to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of

:03:16.:03:20.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of

:03:20.:03:27.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week

:03:27.:03:32.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.

:03:32.:03:34.

I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if

:03:34.:03:39.

you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love

:03:39.:03:45.

This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love

:03:45.:03:50.

you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy

:03:50.:03:54.

chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is

:03:55.:04:00.

what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this

:04:00.:04:07.

something else in politics. She wanted to do something serious.

:04:07.:04:11.

something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a

:04:11.:04:13.

something else in politics. She position but taken it extremely

:04:14.:04:15.

serious and was committed to the issues. I'm quite disappointed for

:04:15.:04:23.

her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a thing. You just mentioned about

:04:23.:04:28.

London mayor, did Diane not ask thing. You just mentioned about

:04:28.:04:37.

Someone who's an eminent person thing. You just mentioned about

:04:37.:04:40.

this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's

:04:40.:04:43.

missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy

:04:44.:04:50.

man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.

:04:50.:04:55.

So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.

:04:55.:04:59.

We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,

:04:59.:05:04.

you're not insured for. That thanks Does she have a chance of being

:05:04.:05:10.

Mayor of London? She's very well known as Michael pointed out. That

:05:10.:05:12.

is important. People who are outside known as Michael pointed out. That

:05:13.:05:19.

the party fold have traditionally done well in the mayoral election.

:05:19.:05:21.

The job of being a London mayor done well in the mayoral election.

:05:21.:05:26.

running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.

:05:26.:05:31.

There may be problems with her running? That was a transparent

:05:31.:05:38.

There may be problems with her for it. She's potentially a very

:05:38.:05:42.

compelling Coll ticks. People have left-winger but she's quite tough

:05:42.:05:52.

and conservative. Michael Gove said he had fallen in love with Diane

:05:52.:05:59.

which That's one vote he has. What do you think? I thing about Diane

:05:59.:06:06.

Abbott is she has a fantastic way of connecting. She has a really good

:06:06.:06:10.

way of connecting wi people. She would be a very strong candidate in

:06:10.:06:16.

candidate. It will probably be a Labour win next time. Depends, if

:06:16.:06:23.

Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger

:06:23.:06:29.

for Labour that Diane is the big personality liked by the party

:06:29.:06:30.

primary but isn't necessarily a personality liked by the party

:06:31.:06:37.

in come the London general election? That's true. London is traditionally

:06:37.:06:43.

a Labour city. But Boris managed to win as an outsider. There are big

:06:43.:06:48.

dangers for Labour with that. I think, as I said before, somebody

:06:48.:06:52.

who seems a bit independent from their own party machinery tend to do

:06:52.:06:59.

We've only had mayors so far that were independent? Indeed. And how

:07:00.:07:06.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.

:07:06.:07:09.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing

:07:09.:07:11.

than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing

:07:11.:07:20.

stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by

:07:20.:07:29.

This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those

:07:29.:07:34.

people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into

:07:34.:07:37.

coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there

:07:37.:07:42.

coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred

:07:42.:07:46.

areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the

:07:46.:07:48.

Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the

:07:49.:07:52.

immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went

:07:52.:07:58.

down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home

:07:58.:08:02.

somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg

:08:02.:08:13.

has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,

:08:13.:08:17.

away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's

:08:17.:08:22.

won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes

:08:22.:08:26.

won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home

:08:26.:08:28.

Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The

:08:28.:08:32.

Guardian. This is important for something else going on which is

:08:32.:08:38.

that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That

:08:39.:08:43.

involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats

:08:43.:08:47.

losing their jobs, Michael Moore, because vacancies have to be created

:08:47.:08:59.

for number people to come in. By Liberal Democrat MPs will have been

:08:59.:09:06.

on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on

:09:07.:09:12.

to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the

:09:12.:09:14.

parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the

:09:14.:09:19.

will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We

:09:19.:09:31.

moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord

:09:31.:09:36.

Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state

:09:36.:09:45.

involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media

:09:45.:09:51.

interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier

:09:51.:09:56.

he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed

:09:56.:10:00.

Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I

:10:00.:10:07.

think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that

:10:07.:10:12.

Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is

:10:12.:10:19.

Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't

:10:19.:10:21.

sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't

:10:21.:10:24.

ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't

:10:25.:10:30.

industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't

:10:30.:10:32.

what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,

:10:32.:10:40.

Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory

:10:40.:10:44.

regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you

:10:44.:10:54.

don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing

:10:54.:11:01.

the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.

:11:01.:11:05.

Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't

:11:05.:11:11.

work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was

:11:11.:11:16.

going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers

:11:16.:11:21.

now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route

:11:21.:11:28.

and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will

:11:28.:11:33.

and to judicial review on what the it to strains Bowring where freedom

:11:33.:11:33.

of the press is enshrined. They it to strains Bowring where freedom

:11:33.:11:41.

fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in

:11:41.:11:45.

that. The big political question going forward is which of the party

:11:45.:11:49.

leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press

:11:49.:11:53.

regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband

:11:53.:11:58.

the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian

:11:58.:12:03.

Leveson. You appoint a judge who shouldn't be surprised with what you

:12:03.:12:11.

got in the Leveson report? I big chunk of press will look at David

:12:11.:12:15.

Cameron saying, you were the guy who intended what will happen. If he had

:12:15.:12:29.

have appointed Brian Leveson. If they face more punitive fines over

:12:29.:12:32.

Labour ale cases they take that they face more punitive fines over

:12:32.:12:37.

Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to

:12:37.:12:45.

suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of

:12:45.:12:50.

suspend that. We must never come out Churchill was behind it. He was

:12:50.:12:59.

indeed. But it is actually a major constitutional issue whether you

:12:59.:13:00.

regulate the press or not. There was constitutional issue whether you

:13:00.:13:06.

a lot of ill feeling that this Marie ya miller statement was snubbing out

:13:06.:13:11.

on Friday afternoon. Somebody said freedom of the press too important

:13:11.:13:16.

to sneak out on afully afternoon. The whole subject should be treated

:13:16.:13:21.

with respect. We've run out of time. I'll be back next Sunday with the

:13:21.:13:27.

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles at our usual time of 11.00am. If

:13:27.:13:37.

Andrew Neil and David Garmston are joined by the new Scottish secretary, Alistair Carmichael, Conservative cabinet minister Ken Clarke, former Liberal Democrat cabinet minister Chris Huhne and Labour MP Diane Abbott.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS