06/10/2013 Sunday Politics West


06/10/2013

Andrew Neil and David Garmston with the latest political news and interviews. With Lord Prescott, Godfrey Bloom MEP, Chuka Umunna, Margot James MP and City AM's Allister Heath.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 06/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And in-out EU

:00:40.:00:46.

election? We talk to the Tory rebel demanding one next year, that is our

:00:46.:00:51.

top story. As government ministers prepare to decide how the press

:00:51.:00:54.

should be regulated, what will be You are talking about the colour of

:00:54.:01:05.

In the West, cheap booze and binge drinking. It causes mayhem late

:01:05.:02:01.

He will try to force a vote in the October. Home Secretary Theresa

:02:01.:02:07.

He will try to force a vote in the was asked about his plans on the BBC

:02:07.:02:10.

earlier this morning. I think he has got it wrong, I think what we need

:02:10.:02:18.

to do is to negotiate the settlement with the European Union and then put

:02:18.:02:22.

that to the people me to decide whether to be in or out. Is this a

:02:22.:02:29.

flea bite or a real threat? I think the next election, a Conservative

:02:29.:02:37.

Party that will be offering people that renegotiation, a new settlement

:02:37.:02:40.

with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British

:02:40.:02:46.

people in and in or out referendum. And what the amendment possibly

:02:46.:02:47.

could do, as James Wharton, who And what the amendment possibly

:02:47.:02:51.

putting the Referendum Bill through Parliament has said, is it could

:02:51.:02:56.

jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie joins us now from Millbank studio.

:02:56.:03:02.

Good morning. If the referendum would be held next October, it would

:03:02.:03:05.

have to be an in-out question based the status quo? There wouldn't be

:03:05.:03:13.

time for a full renegotiation. I disagree. By having a referendum in

:03:13.:03:17.

2014, it gives us 12 months to renegotiate, but it kick-started

:03:18.:03:21.

negotiations, because the European Union, if they wish us to remain

:03:21.:03:24.

and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate

:03:24.:03:27.

and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay,

:03:27.:03:32.

strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time

:03:32.:03:36.

for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has

:03:36.:03:40.

not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our

:03:40.:03:44.

timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I

:03:44.:03:45.

think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I

:03:45.:03:52.

a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need

:03:52.:03:57.

certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for

:03:57.:03:58.

ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for

:03:58.:04:02.

conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is

:04:02.:04:06.

essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their

:04:06.:04:09.

souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That

:04:09.:04:12.

would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I

:04:12.:04:18.

said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is successful.

:04:18.:04:20.

You right in the Mail on Sunday Minister's hand if it is successful.

:04:20.:04:24.

the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they

:04:24.:04:28.

don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I

:04:28.:04:32.

wrote for that piece. What I am You are saying that the British

:04:32.:04:39.

people are not convinced. Look, there are too many uncertainties

:04:39.:04:42.

here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election,

:04:42.:04:46.

I hope we will, they may not be convinced the renegotiation will be

:04:46.:04:47.

good enough, that there will be convinced the renegotiation will be

:04:47.:04:52.

referendum. Do you trust David That is why we need to bring the

:04:52.:04:58.

referendum forward, there is time to negotiate, and we tidy up the issue

:04:58.:05:02.

that has been hanging around for too long. Do you trust David Cameron to

:05:02.:05:07.

deliver a referendum in 2017? I Minister, and of course I trust

:05:07.:05:16.

deliver a referendum in 2017? I referendum? There as only variables

:05:16.:05:16.

in between. What I am doing with referendum? There as only variables

:05:16.:05:21.

this amendment, is to try to be referendum? There as only variables

:05:21.:05:23.

is that Parliament and every MP referendum? There as only variables

:05:23.:05:25.

the opportunity decide whether they want to be sure of a referendum

:05:25.:05:28.

within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may

:05:29.:05:33.

within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got

:05:33.:05:37.

your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

:05:37.:05:39.

leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to

:05:39.:05:42.

an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come

:05:42.:05:44.

forward with proposals. If they European Union leaders to come

:05:44.:05:48.

to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever

:05:48.:05:50.

closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving us

:05:50.:05:55.

more border control and control closer trading harmony, giving us

:05:55.:05:57.

our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to

:05:57.:06:00.

happen - if we have a referendum in happen - if we have a referendum in

:06:00.:06:05.

negotiations to be kick-started happen - if we have a referendum in

:06:05.:06:08.

people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime

:06:08.:06:11.

Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime

:06:11.:06:14.

Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It

:06:14.:06:20.

certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five

:06:20.:06:24.

weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you,

:06:24.:06:29.

is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know

:06:29.:06:35.

cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in

:06:36.:06:40.

2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop

:06:40.:06:45.

this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your

:06:45.:06:48.

party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over

:06:49.:06:51.

Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it

:06:51.:06:55.

Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol

:06:55.:06:59.

Europe anymore, the Europe issue was unlicensed troublemaker of the

:06:59.:07:03.

Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but

:07:03.:07:06.

Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or

:07:06.:07:06.

not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or

:07:06.:07:10.

British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with

:07:10.:07:15.

it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for

:07:15.:07:19.

each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and

:07:19.:07:22.

decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the

:07:22.:07:27.

headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition

:07:27.:07:29.

publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition

:07:29.:07:37.

would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this

:07:37.:07:39.

opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this

:07:39.:07:44.

say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a

:07:44.:07:48.

say. Thanks for joining us, good luck with this continuing struggle

:07:48.:07:52.

with your conscience! I will move the seat around and addressed the

:07:52.:07:56.

panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with

:07:56.:07:57.

him. I think what this confirms party managers must be furious with

:07:57.:08:02.

that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most

:08:02.:08:09.

prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if

:08:09.:08:13.

you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in

:08:13.:08:18.

charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed.

:08:18.:08:23.

They do not take him seriously? No, is not as if the James Wharton bill

:08:23.:08:29.

is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes.

:08:29.:08:33.

It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the

:08:33.:08:36.

next Parliament. My understanding of theoretically impossible and that

:08:37.:08:39.

all the future government would theoretically impossible and that

:08:39.:08:42.

is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that

:08:42.:08:45.

Cameron's plan for a referendum bill. He does have a point that

:08:45.:08:51.

nothing like as likely to happen... dangerous. The problem for David

:08:51.:08:59.

Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support

:08:59.:09:04.

Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would

:09:04.:09:07.

Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to

:09:07.:09:10.

his MPs, ignore this. It may well be significant number of Labour MPs do

:09:10.:09:15.

not turn up, and then what you have Conservative backbenchers, and in

:09:15.:09:22.

that war you might well find that through, and then the Prime Minister

:09:22.:09:28.

has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister

:09:28.:09:35.

membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able

:09:35.:09:39.

to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking

:09:39.:09:41.

think he is a Labour mole, that Ed Miliband, so you would be looking

:09:41.:09:49.

what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could

:09:49.:09:50.

not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could

:09:50.:09:55.

a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is

:09:55.:10:01.

has told us he could not sleep at conscience. We could send him some

:10:01.:10:08.

pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were

:10:08.:10:11.

going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of

:10:11.:10:16.

the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to

:10:16.:10:21.

hear you say that, this is a crisis conversations in corridors, quite an

:10:21.:10:26.

operation to get letters into Graham Brady, he said to have letters,

:10:27.:10:31.

operation to get letters into Graham 46, but at the moment this campaign

:10:31.:10:34.

is being run by Lieutenant of Adam They are disaffected and not happy

:10:34.:10:43.

under David Cameron's leadership. There is a whole army of them! I am

:10:43.:10:49.

pleased he has outmanoeuvred the awkward squad, and now James Wharton

:10:49.:10:51.

is saying, you're going to kill awkward squad, and now James Wharton

:10:51.:10:58.

bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main

:10:58.:11:03.

episode is it will unify a large Conservative Party behind David

:11:03.:11:08.

Cameron. On what they hope is a settled position. We still hope

:11:08.:11:13.

Cameron. On what they hope is a be talking to John Prescott, who is

:11:13.:11:16.

in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do

:11:16.:11:21.

you want to buy a house? Can you afford the mortgage repayments but

:11:21.:11:26.

not the 20% or 30% deposit the mortgage provider is demanding from

:11:26.:11:27.

you? The Government says it has mortgage provider is demanding from

:11:28.:11:31.

scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to buy,

:11:31.:11:38.

re-emergence of 95% mortgages, remember them?! But is the policy

:11:38.:11:43.

really good for home-buyers or the British economy? Here is Giles.

:11:43.:11:45.

Never mind who lives in a house British economy? Here is Giles.

:11:45.:11:50.

this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government would

:11:50.:11:53.

this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to be able to

:11:53.:11:53.

without putting down a crippling like many more people to be able to

:11:53.:11:56.

without putting down a crippling amount of money as a deposit, and in

:11:56.:11:58.

the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to

:11:58.:12:03.

the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two

:12:03.:12:04.

been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early.

:12:04.:12:25.

Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this

:12:25.:12:29.

scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really

:12:29.:12:34.

works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is

:12:34.:12:40.

works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a

:12:40.:12:40.

value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to

:12:40.:12:47.

Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up

:12:47.:12:50.

to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up

:12:51.:12:58.

time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first

:12:58.:13:00.

losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first

:13:00.:13:03.

future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if

:13:03.:13:08.

you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the

:13:08.:13:12.

5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating

:13:12.:13:18.

banks and building societies. And a housing prime mover. You cannot

:13:18.:13:26.

get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples in

:13:26.:13:30.

our country who have good jobs, decent incomes, they could afford

:13:30.:13:33.

the mortgage payments but they failure in our banking market. So

:13:33.:13:41.

Jonathan, but I guess for you this is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a

:13:41.:13:44.

main impact of this scheme will is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a

:13:44.:13:50.

to push up prices, who does that benefit? Mostly rich and all the

:13:50.:13:54.

people who own their houses. Plus the banks, of course, because it is

:13:54.:13:59.

a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want to buy a house in

:13:59.:14:03.

the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says it

:14:03.:14:09.

the future. Moreover, it is a bit not OK to borrow to finance schools

:14:09.:14:11.

or roads, but it is fine for the effectively, in order to guarantee

:14:11.:14:23.

housing market. 2.3 million? I do not think Help to Buy covers that.

:14:23.:14:27.

But enter a would-be buyer, will they now be seeing a plethora of

:14:27.:14:33.

help to buy mortgages? In a word, no. David Cameron has brought the

:14:34.:14:41.

months, and banks were not ready at that stage. Two banks have committed

:14:41.:14:45.

to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group, so lenders like

:14:45.:14:49.

Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme, but even once

:14:49.:14:53.

the scheme is up and running you are probably find 95% mortgages on the

:14:53.:15:00.

high street because of the guarantee the government is offering. People

:15:00.:15:09.

might say this is how we got into a mess in the first place. Why would

:15:09.:15:14.

the government want to make those products available then now? It

:15:14.:15:20.

the government want to make those more what investment banks were

:15:20.:15:22.

doing in the background that caused performed extremely well through the

:15:22.:15:28.

depths of the downturn. Is this performed extremely well through the

:15:28.:15:35.

game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years

:15:35.:15:37.

but this has enabled me to make best to save over the last few years

:15:37.:15:42.

first purchase. How frustrating best to save over the last few years

:15:42.:15:47.

it just renting? Very frustrating, you are throwing away money hand

:15:47.:15:52.

over fist, and now I can take that enthusiasm raises a question back at

:15:52.:16:00.

the flat. If you are looking for a 95% mortgage, you don't really care

:16:00.:16:07.

economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a

:16:07.:16:14.

house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term

:16:14.:16:21.

economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull

:16:21.:16:25.

off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the opportunity to

:16:25.:16:31.

off is that home-buyers might be so their own homes that they reward the

:16:31.:16:32.

Government with the vote, while their own homes that they reward the

:16:32.:16:35.

the same time the Government tries to sidestep consequences that such a

:16:35.:16:51.

Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City

:16:51.:16:57.

It is said by the critics that this scheme will cause a housing bubble.

:16:57.:17:03.

Where is the evidence? House prices are more varied. Housing not just in

:17:03.:17:17.

London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it

:17:17.:17:22.

will pump up house prices, it will therefore houses will become even

:17:22.:17:30.

more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in

:17:30.:17:34.

tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy.

:17:34.:17:42.

What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on

:17:42.:17:44.

average until they are 38 years real problem, it takes people on

:17:44.:17:55.

property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they

:17:55.:17:59.

cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people

:17:59.:18:03.

to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will

:18:03.:18:07.

cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any

:18:07.:18:23.

have had a record this year, 12 months to right now, the record

:18:23.:18:33.

have had a record this year, 12 the last ten years. These are not

:18:33.:18:33.

the statistics I have seen, but the last ten years. These are not

:18:33.:18:40.

new supply is coming up. It is starting to creep up. We don't see

:18:40.:18:46.

enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution

:18:46.:18:50.

to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes

:18:50.:18:54.

and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the

:18:54.:18:59.

deposits are so high is because secondly the Government has passed

:18:59.:19:04.

laws to make the banking system secondly the Government has passed

:19:04.:19:07.

prudent, telling them to put more wrong. Now suddenly the Government

:19:07.:19:15.

is not happy with the outcome of its own rules and is trying to create

:19:15.:19:19.

these subsidies to circumvent the rules it has put in place. It is not

:19:19.:19:26.

a subsidy. Don't forget banks have to pay a charge in order to take

:19:26.:19:32.

part in this loan scheme and that the... You are guaranteeing the

:19:32.:19:38.

money. Yes, but the fear is worked out on a commercial basis. The

:19:39.:19:42.

taxpayer is protected. Why? You out on a commercial basis. The

:19:42.:19:48.

guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the

:19:48.:19:54.

change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in

:19:54.:19:59.

response of the crash. They made the distressed test on people applying

:19:59.:20:03.

for mortgages much higher and you twice... So it will not be like

:20:03.:20:13.

these self certification mortgages handed out in America that caused

:20:13.:20:19.

the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit like that but the banks are rightly

:20:19.:20:24.

asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big chance house

:20:24.:20:28.

prices could fall if interest rates eventually, so they are demanding

:20:28.:20:33.

bigger deposits. The Government eventually, so they are demanding

:20:33.:20:38.

circumventing this is being passed eventually, so they are demanding

:20:38.:20:41.

on to the taxpayers which is why it is a dangerous policy. Instead they

:20:41.:20:46.

should be massively accelerating Planning permission is much easier

:20:46.:20:54.

to get now, we have seen a 49% increase in planning permission

:20:54.:20:58.

to get now, we have seen a 49% a new building over the last year, a

:20:58.:20:58.

huge increase. In the figures I a new building over the last year, a

:20:58.:21:05.

recently, they showed new start a new building over the last year, a

:21:05.:21:08.

the 12 months to the autumn were only about 110,000 which is the

:21:08.:21:12.

figure you inherited, which was only about 110,000 which is the

:21:12.:21:17.

an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are third

:21:17.:21:23.

up on the time last year. You have relaxation of planning laws and

:21:23.:21:29.

up on the time last year. You have other policies the Government put

:21:29.:21:30.

into effect last year to take effect and it is coming through now. I

:21:30.:21:36.

agree, if we weren't building more houses, if the construction sector

:21:36.:21:42.

advantage of the increased demand, there would be a risk. David Cameron

:21:42.:21:48.

says you are snob and it is only snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They

:21:48.:21:57.

don't have the bank of mum and dad, people like that will finally get on

:21:57.:22:03.

the housing ladder. That is complete nonsense. We need a sustainable

:22:03.:22:07.

housing market where there is a large amount of construction, like

:22:07.:22:11.

in the 1930s for example, where large numbers of proper family homes

:22:11.:22:19.

were being built for people. House prices were pushed down and people

:22:19.:22:25.

could afford houses. You are now encouraging people to take out a 95%

:22:25.:22:29.

mortgage, I thought that was a bad idea, so supposing interest rates go

:22:29.:22:38.

struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced

:22:38.:22:44.

with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford.

:22:44.:22:49.

95% mortgage, if you can afford interest rates that I cannot afford.

:22:49.:22:54.

repayments, you will be fine. What happens when interest rates rise?

:22:54.:23:00.

They have got to rise a lot before you get into trouble. People are

:23:00.:23:03.

already affording rent which is you get into trouble. People are

:23:03.:23:08.

lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into

:23:08.:23:15.

this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are

:23:15.:23:20.

this scheme unless you can afford the moment. The Conservatives should

:23:20.:23:24.

limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape

:23:24.:23:30.

limelight last week but there was an row between Ed Miliband and the

:23:30.:23:32.

Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the claiming that Ed Miliband's Father

:23:32.:23:40.

Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone

:23:40.:23:47.

with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and

:23:47.:23:52.

with the caption, grave socialist. Ed Miliband the right to reply on

:23:52.:23:56.

printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word

:23:56.:24:00.

printed an editorial alongside it published an fair headline. It also

:24:00.:24:06.

reporter had gate-crashed a private memorial service for Ed Miliband's

:24:06.:24:11.

uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now apologised,

:24:11.:24:15.

but Ed Miliband has called on the hard look at the way his papers

:24:15.:24:23.

but Ed Miliband has called on the run. This comes a week before a

:24:23.:24:31.

but Ed Miliband has called on the Joining us now from Hull, John

:24:31.:24:31.

Prescott. Does this row between Joining us now from Hull, John

:24:31.:24:42.

reinforce the case for tough, new certainly influences the opinion

:24:42.:24:49.

about that but that is more of Paul Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang

:24:49.:24:53.

about that but that is more of Paul while I was in Strasbourg making

:24:53.:24:54.

sure my complaints were nothing while I was in Strasbourg making

:24:54.:24:59.

do with press regulation and he while I was in Strasbourg making

:24:59.:25:04.

right. This argument is not about politicians and media people, it is

:25:04.:25:07.

about ordinary people that love politicians and media people, it is

:25:07.:25:15.

and dealt with. All of these cases affected individual people and they

:25:15.:25:21.

are the ones that need to have justice in this matter. Next week we

:25:21.:25:26.

will be hearing whether the Privy Council will be reporting on the

:25:26.:25:33.

proposal to replace it. Are you agreeing then that what the mail did

:25:33.:25:49.

with its Miliband article was a matter of judgement? Yes, and the

:25:49.:26:02.

with its Miliband article was a conclusion that the relationship

:26:02.:26:04.

between the press, the police and politicians should be governed,

:26:04.:26:13.

between the press, the police and proposal given by half the press

:26:13.:26:18.

industry that that does not meet the Leveson requirement and I suspect

:26:18.:26:22.

the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I hope

:26:22.:26:26.

the Privy Council this week will will because it is not consistent

:26:26.:26:28.

with the Leveson report which the Prime Minister said he supported.

:26:28.:26:34.

You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went through

:26:34.:26:40.

the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their disabled

:26:40.:26:45.

son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote about

:26:45.:26:46.

Ralph Miliband? It probably is, than what the Daily Mail wrote about

:26:46.:26:56.

couldn't defend that. I have had Haven't we all? Yes, but we are

:26:56.:27:09.

editors who acts unilaterally. Paul Dacre is running this thing in the

:27:09.:27:23.

judgement and some accountability which the press have accepted the

:27:23.:27:32.

old PCC is no good. They are playing for time because if they reject

:27:33.:27:36.

old PCC is no good. They are playing this week there is 12 months until

:27:37.:27:39.

you can consider a parliamentary alternative and then you are near

:27:40.:27:43.

the election and you begin to bully the leaders. That is how they have

:27:43.:27:48.

been successful in putting off recommendations. Maybe my memory is

:27:48.:27:57.

fading but did you or anybody else in the Labour Party object to the

:27:58.:28:04.

Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't know about it. I would just say

:28:04.:28:08.

Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't is wrong if that is what they did.

:28:08.:28:11.

As you said, you have the same position when they go through your

:28:11.:28:17.

rubbish bins, I think that is wrong. We have Leveson set up by the Prime

:28:17.:28:21.

Minister to look at the cultures and practices and the unilateral action

:28:21.:28:24.

of editors and he came forward with Parliament under a compromise of the

:28:24.:28:39.

frankly, but we have agreed to go frankly, but we have agreed to go

:28:39.:28:44.

Government set up in charge at the same time rushed through the press

:28:44.:28:51.

box? It looks like a fix, like they are using the Royal Charter as a

:28:51.:28:58.

means of delaying everything. They have now said they are going to

:28:58.:29:02.

introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not

:29:02.:29:08.

introduce their own independent accountability. We know Alistair

:29:08.:29:08.

Campbell and Ed Miliband's officers accountability. We know Alistair

:29:08.:29:13.

are working closely on the assault of the Mail. What is the endgame for

:29:13.:29:24.

this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to

:29:24.:29:39.

account. When Ed Miliband rang me it regulation, he wanted the argument

:29:39.:29:44.

of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband regulation, he wanted the argument

:29:44.:29:57.

of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband after Paul Dacre's head? No, he

:29:57.:29:59.

of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband stay there. It is like with Murdoch,

:29:59.:30:01.

of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband we were not attacking him but what

:30:01.:30:06.

extent, what they are doing about politicians who can look after

:30:06.:30:12.

themselves. We know, with the bad cases he had to deal with, they

:30:12.:30:16.

might get libel action, which the press say, but they pretty well

:30:16.:30:19.

destroyed their lives. That is about judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre

:30:19.:30:25.

got good judgment? I would say no, Thank you for joining us, he did not

:30:25.:30:32.

even have to go to the BBC studios, we sent a truck there for him. What

:30:32.:30:35.

is the endgame in this? Whether we sent a truck there for him. What

:30:35.:30:41.

Labour Party is trying to make this an issue press regulation are not,

:30:41.:30:45.

this is where it is going. We have the criminal trial involving Andy

:30:45.:30:48.

Coulson coming up, the Privy Council discussing press radiation before

:30:48.:30:52.

question is, what is political unfashionable view, is that the

:30:52.:30:58.

total at yum elated political impact of the Leveson story over the past

:30:58.:31:11.

those who do care believe that all parties are roughly complicit in

:31:11.:31:14.

being too close to editors and proprietors. You said that Adam

:31:14.:31:19.

Afriyie was a Labour mould, with a smile. Is the Daily Mail also a

:31:19.:31:26.

Labour mole? This has been a dream for Ed Miliband, I took on Murdoch,

:31:26.:31:29.

I am taking on the energy companies and now the evil Daily Mail! I

:31:29.:31:34.

think... I should say I used to and now the evil Daily Mail! I

:31:34.:31:38.

for the Daily Mail, but when they printed the right of reply, they

:31:38.:31:42.

surrounded it with a big two fingers up at Ed. If they had not done

:31:42.:31:46.

surrounded it with a big two fingers that, they would not be in this

:31:46.:31:49.

position. The poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows 72% think

:31:49.:31:52.

the Daily Mail was wrong and backed Mr Miliband's demand for an apology.

:31:52.:31:58.

If you come to define and your dad, people are naturally going to do

:31:58.:32:01.

this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory conference, the

:32:01.:32:05.

media loves covering itself, here we are doing it again, this has been a

:32:05.:32:12.

dream for Mr Miliband. The political significance of this is that David

:32:12.:32:15.

Cameron said in the House of Commons that he wanted to try to find some

:32:15.:32:18.

common ground between the three so-called press industry version.

:32:18.:32:26.

What the Daily Mail has done is ensured that the Prime Minister

:32:26.:32:30.

What the Daily Mail has done is What is going to happen this week is

:32:30.:32:32.

that the press Royal Charter has to be considered first, and that will

:32:32.:32:36.

probably be rejected. The Privy Council will reject it. Then the

:32:36.:32:43.

three party Royal Charter will come up, but meanwhile the press will set

:32:43.:32:48.

up their own regulatory body because the Royal Charter is not a proper

:32:48.:32:51.

statutory underpinning, they will be able to go ahead with that. There

:32:51.:32:55.

statutory underpinning, they will be will be the legal basis for the

:32:55.:33:06.

resolved. As you say, no-one much cares about this outside of the

:33:06.:33:10.

profession and a few media watchers. But this has been great politics for

:33:10.:33:25.

victory. I take your view that people are cynical about it. But the

:33:25.:33:29.

narrative is, I am the chap who stands up to vested interests. But

:33:29.:33:33.

all those vested interests are people that you would expect a

:33:33.:33:35.

left-wing politician to want to people that you would expect a

:33:35.:33:41.

on. It is also more significant about who he has stood up for, and

:33:41.:33:46.

the person he has studied for is his father. Maybe people thought of

:33:46.:33:49.

the person he has studied for is his as a Marxist, now they think of

:33:49.:33:53.

the person he has studied for is his as war hero. He gets to the crux of

:33:53.:33:56.

matters, you know! You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in

:33:56.:34:01.

Thank you Andrew and welcome to On the programme this week: The

:34:01.:34:19.

Government scrapped their plans On the programme this week: The

:34:19.:34:23.

a minimum price for booze, but could local politicians do it anyway?

:34:23.:34:25.

Binge drinking blights many high streets, so could local councils ban

:34:25.:34:28.

super—strength cheap alcohol from being sold in off—licenses and pubs?

:34:28.:34:34.

Precious few refreshments in our studio this morning — just a couple

:34:34.:34:40.

has been passed by the management. Welcome to Cold Comfort Farm to

:34:40.:34:44.

has been passed by the management. two guests this morning. They are

:34:44.:34:52.

Bristol. And Labour's Clare Moody. Nice to see you both. First of all,

:34:52.:34:56.

let's talk about the grommet auction was delighted not to win one because

:34:56.:35:06.

I was prepared to bid. The great thing is they went for twice as

:35:07.:35:10.

I was prepared to bid. The great as I expected. That is good for

:35:10.:35:14.

Children's Hospital. It is great for politics into it, is it right that

:35:14.:35:21.

there needs to be charity auctions to raise money for the NHS? There

:35:22.:35:29.

have always been fundraisers for hospitals, for specific bits of

:35:29.:35:33.

equipment. But I think the broader question about the funding of the

:35:33.:35:35.

NHS is a very live one in terms question about the funding of the

:35:35.:35:43.

the cost to the NHS of the top ten reorganisation that has happened

:35:44.:35:47.

since the election. And also the way that the money is being used in

:35:47.:35:54.

since the election. And also the way NHS. I was really encouraged by

:35:54.:35:54.

that. They have often said that NHS. I was really encouraged by

:35:54.:35:58.

you can sell it in Bristol, you NHS. I was really encouraged by

:35:58.:36:01.

sell it anywhere. Bristol has got a lot more generous and I think it is

:36:01.:36:04.

showing a sign that everyone is feeling more upbeat. We have a

:36:04.:36:08.

reputation for being tight. It is Now this was the week that Boris

:36:08.:36:13.

Johnson didn't know the price of milk and David Cameron couldn't

:36:13.:36:17.

remember the cost of a loaf of bread. But we all know that alcohol

:36:17.:36:20.

is cheap in supermarkets and very tempting to people who can't resist

:36:20.:36:22.

it. The social cost is huge, so tempting to people who can't resist

:36:22.:36:25.

it time that local authorities We'll discuss that later, but first,

:36:25.:36:30.

here's our health correspondent Andy Farlow has just woken up. He is

:36:30.:36:37.

already hitting the bottle. Doctors have told him if he doesn't stop

:36:37.:36:40.

drinking up to ten metres of cider day he could die. I need to do

:36:41.:36:47.

something. I am 49 years old. I don't get sorted out now, I will be

:36:47.:36:52.

dead. He has been admitted to the only NHS funded hospital in Bristol

:36:52.:36:54.

which has a dedicated inpatient only NHS funded hospital in Bristol

:36:54.:37:00.

for alcohol detox. It is because of an epidemic of patients like Andy

:37:00.:37:05.

that the Government decided two years ago to set a minimum price for

:37:05.:37:07.

alcohol in England and Wales of years ago to set a minimum price for

:37:07.:37:12.

per unit. Had this been in place years ago, it would have cost Andy

:37:12.:37:17.

around £120 a week more to pay for his habit. Crime and Courts Bill

:37:17.:37:24.

especially when I was younger —— especially when I was younger, I had

:37:24.:37:29.

very limited money. I couldn't have afforded it. It would have had a

:37:29.:37:39.

substantial effect. There should be increased significantly. In the

:37:39.:37:47.

light of his U—turn on alcohol pricing, can the Prime Minister

:37:47.:37:50.

light of his U—turn on alcohol us, it is there anything he could

:37:50.:37:52.

organise in the light of his U—turn on alcohol pricing, can the Prime

:37:52.:37:54.

Minister tell us, is there anything he could organise inability? The

:37:54.:37:56.

Government recently made a U—turn and scrapped plans for a minimum

:37:56.:37:59.

price. It is something that has enraged Andy's psychiatrist. It

:37:59.:38:04.

price. It is something that has shocking to believe that the power

:38:04.:38:06.

of the lobbyists had overcome so clearly make a difference. Unlike

:38:06.:38:16.

all the alcohol lobbies blah blah as about what helps, like education,

:38:16.:38:25.

not being shown to be much use. It's the Government bowed to pressure

:38:25.:38:29.

from the drinks industry? These options here that this cider farm

:38:29.:38:35.

Somerset countryside. The county is a major hub for cider production.

:38:35.:38:38.

That means big money. In total, a major hub for cider production.

:38:38.:38:43.

cider industry is worth £3 billion a year and brings in a huge amount of

:38:43.:38:49.

revenue to the Treasury. Down the road at Taunton, at the fair was

:38:49.:38:53.

prices would have rocketed with minimum pricing, and it would hit

:38:53.:39:02.

increase instantly. That is if it was 50p will stop it could be even

:39:02.:39:09.

more. We are selling a premium product anyway and we sell it at a

:39:09.:39:16.

fairly premium price. Health experts say prices the main factor when

:39:17.:39:19.

fairly premium price. Health experts comes to developing a habit like

:39:19.:39:25.

Andy. But with jobs at stake, it is an adamant which looks likely to

:39:25.:39:30.

And you can hear more about Andy Farlow's story on Inside Out West

:39:30.:39:36.

But joining the debate today are Janet Maxwell, who's the director of

:39:37.:39:40.

public health in Bristol, and Simon Russell, who's a spokesperson for

:39:40.:39:44.

the cider industry. Welcome to you problem in this country cheap booze?

:39:44.:39:55.

I think it is a small minority of people misusing alcohol. There is a

:39:55.:39:58.

gentleman in crisis and many more like him. Our issue is whether that

:39:58.:40:03.

minority can be addressed with whole population measures, which is what

:40:03.:40:10.

minimum unit pricing is. There is an increasing problem. It is not a

:40:10.:40:14.

minority. It is younger people drinking more and more. It is a

:40:14.:40:18.

social known to drink increasing amounts. We are really concerned

:40:18.:40:22.

about what will happen to that generation who are now showing signs

:40:22.:40:31.

majority who do drink sensibly to put prices up? We think the people

:40:31.:40:39.

who will benefit from bringing in an minimum price are underage triggers

:40:39.:40:44.

and people who are binge drinking and people who are drinking at risk.

:40:44.:40:49.

It is those younger people we really want to benefit from this. You are

:40:49.:40:54.

in a very powerful lobby with the Government, aren't you? I would

:40:54.:41:01.

argue that is not true. The cider industry has a great profile here in

:41:01.:41:08.

the south—west. We are not a major industry in terms of total alcohol.

:41:08.:41:10.

£3 billion as the retail value of the industry. But to suggest we

:41:10.:41:16.

£3 billion as the retail value of some hotline to government... I

:41:16.:41:18.

would imagine the Chancellor is pretty interested in what the cider

:41:18.:41:20.

industry has to say giving the revenue. This wasn't about revenue.

:41:20.:41:32.

The issue was about public health. All alcohol industries are very

:41:32.:41:35.

clear, we want to be sustainable in the best way for the commercial

:41:35.:41:39.

enterprise. The best way to do that is for people to have a long—term

:41:39.:41:44.

responsible... It is hard to be responsible when something is cheap,

:41:44.:41:49.

isn't it? They could make apple juice rather than cider, which is

:41:49.:41:55.

evidence you can show that if you put up cider or wine prices, people

:41:55.:42:01.

will drink less of it? Those people who really wanted would be put off

:42:01.:42:08.

by 30p, or will they? Studies have consumption over the country would

:42:08.:42:15.

reduce by 3.3%. That is an overall figure. We think the people who

:42:15.:42:18.

would be affected most would be figure. We think the people who

:42:18.:42:23.

underage or younger generation and those dependent drinkers. Those

:42:23.:42:25.

underage or younger generation and the people we are really targeting.

:42:25.:42:29.

We haven't finished is completely, watching with interest because he

:42:29.:42:36.

could be deciding the cost of booze. Mind you, he's got shares in a

:42:36.:42:39.

brewery and owns the old Tobacco Factory. Our political reporter

:42:39.:42:41.

Robin Markwell has been out for Factory. Our political reporter

:42:41.:42:46.

The Government might have junked its plans for a floor price on the price

:42:46.:42:51.

of drink, but some councils think the policy is more than just froth

:42:51.:42:55.

are thinking about giving it a go believe they might be able to bring

:42:55.:43:05.

conditions. Newcastle and old have been experimenting with it and now

:43:05.:43:10.

Bristol could follow suit. The Mayor commercial interest in several

:43:10.:43:13.

across the city. He is toasting commercial interest in several

:43:14.:43:20.

notion of minimum price. The sort of responsible drinking. You get good

:43:20.:43:26.

behaviour in like this. The most damaging drinking is done by those

:43:26.:43:32.

buying the very cheapest booze in the cheap booze shops which have

:43:32.:43:35.

sprung up all over the place and in supermarkets themselves which, in

:43:35.:43:42.

themselves as well. What would it mean for people 's pockets? It is

:43:42.:43:45.

not going to work. I don't care mean for people 's pockets? It is

:43:45.:43:49.

they pay, I will go for something that is nice for stop —— that is

:43:49.:43:58.

nice. I would go for something like The Mind Destroyer, which would

:43:58.:44:03.

nice. I would go for something like actual shoes. —— which would be

:44:03.:44:09.

drinking and a sort of entitlement. These days, you can get two pints

:44:09.:44:15.

font just shy of £10 in a pub. People still do it. It probably

:44:15.:44:22.

would affect a lot of people. There is always a way to get your hands on

:44:22.:44:24.

counterfeit alcohol coming into is always a way to get your hands on

:44:24.:44:31.

UK. It is rampant and goes along illegal tobacco sales. So it won't

:44:31.:44:32.

stop them just by adding on 20p illegal tobacco sales. So it won't

:44:32.:44:39.

bottle of cider. Minimum alcohol Councils. Across Bristol, there

:44:39.:44:49.

bottle of cider. Minimum alcohol premises that can open and sell

:44:49.:44:51.

drink have been capped. The policy is working. Violent crime in central

:44:51.:44:59.

city centre remains a no go area for many, so new techniques are being

:44:59.:45:08.

considered. This programme can reveal that Avon and Somerset Police

:45:08.:45:10.

is considering a ground—breaking idea with a drunk and disorderly

:45:10.:45:15.

would face a choice between being charged or going to an alcohol

:45:15.:45:18.

awareness workshop. It would be charged or going to an alcohol

:45:18.:45:23.

against binge drinking. What powers do you have to influence this?

:45:23.:45:30.

I understand cities can take the decision to have minimum pricing in

:45:30.:45:31.

a city. I have always said as a decision to have minimum pricing in

:45:31.:45:36.

we're up for trying things out. decision to have minimum pricing in

:45:36.:45:39.

gather that Newcastle are thinking about trying it out. I applaud that.

:45:39.:45:43.

We will learn from then and see about trying it out. I applaud that.

:45:43.:45:48.

happens. I am sure that minimum pricing has an effect. What I am not

:45:48.:45:53.

sure about is what it does cross borders. What it should be as a

:45:53.:45:58.

national decision and I think the Government got it wrong. But you

:45:58.:46:06.

won't act alone or fast? No, because there are some definitely going

:46:07.:46:10.

before this. I think we will benefit from that. Let's see what comes

:46:10.:46:16.

before this. I think we will benefit of that. My interests were referred

:46:16.:46:22.

to. I am somebody who could organise that proverbial party in a brewery,

:46:22.:46:28.

but I absolutely believe we should have a responsible attitude to

:46:28.:46:31.

drinking. I would ask the cider industry to recognise that. So the

:46:31.:46:36.

Government flaunted by not doing anything but you're not? No. It

:46:36.:46:40.

should be a national thing. But anything but you're not? No. It

:46:40.:46:46.

ready to wish and. —— ready to listen. Labour's 24—hour drinking. A

:46:46.:46:58.

good idea? That is a different thing. The Government got it wrong.

:46:58.:47:05.

David Cameron said he would bring in minimum unit pricing. Theresa May

:47:05.:47:10.

said the same. And wasn't it a Labour policy? I think what Andy was

:47:10.:47:17.

earlier is that it would have had an effect on him when he was younger.

:47:18.:47:23.

Clearly he is a lot further down the line and relationship —— in his

:47:23.:47:30.

relationship with alcohol. It has to mechanism. I do not worried about it

:47:30.:47:38.

being called nanny state? It has to be part of supporting people in

:47:38.:47:43.

being called nanny state? It has to community. What you think about

:47:43.:47:45.

being called nanny state? It has to the Mayor said? He will not go fast

:47:45.:47:48.

or make sure unit prices are higher in Bristol. Now local authorities

:47:48.:47:54.

are responsible for public health and improving the health of the

:47:54.:47:59.

population, I think more and more, meaning the big eight cities in

:47:59.:48:05.

population, I think more and more, UK, the public health teams, are now

:48:05.:48:06.

looking at whether we could put UK, the public health teams, are now

:48:06.:48:11.

nationally. If we demonstrate we could put minimum pricing in those

:48:11.:48:16.

big cities, there is a chance it will make the Government that for

:48:16.:48:20.

the national recommendation. You are in a bit of a minority here. I am

:48:20.:48:33.

not sure that is true. In the UK, per capita consumption of the whole

:48:33.:48:38.

is in decline. We have a small population. Admittedly, perhaps

:48:38.:48:43.

is in decline. We have a small growing operation. But they are

:48:43.:48:45.

drinking at levels of harmful to notion of a whole population measure

:48:45.:49:01.

fresher's week. Students are getting drunk before they get out because it

:49:02.:49:06.

is treatment. Argue worried about that? Very worried. Surveys of

:49:06.:49:14.

schoolchildren sure that ten and 11—year—olds are starting to drink.

:49:14.:49:18.

And with offers in supermarkets 11—year—olds are starting to drink.

:49:18.:49:24.

all the rest of it. As a producer, we aren't responsible for the prices

:49:24.:49:30.

of alcohol. But we think minimum unit pricing doesn't work. There are

:49:30.:49:34.

issues around legality. Price is an important factor. We do not see

:49:34.:49:38.

issues around legality. Price is an sense necessarily in buying eight

:49:38.:49:41.

bottles of beer for a cheaper price than you might buy ten individual

:49:41.:49:42.

bottles of beer. Equally, we do than you might buy ten individual

:49:42.:49:47.

think there is a lot of merit in people being encouraged to drink at

:49:47.:49:48.

levels that are dangerous. They people being encouraged to drink at

:49:48.:49:54.

Bus fares in Bristol are being slashed by a quarter with some

:49:54.:49:57.

journeys for children reduced to drive to get people out of their

:49:57.:50:02.

cars. But the bus company First passenger numbers don't rise, they

:50:03.:50:16.

It is a victory for passenger power. When First asked what customers

:50:16.:50:19.

thought of the service, they were left in no doubt. They are quite

:50:19.:50:25.

expensive. It is £2 40 for a single fair which is a lot of money. It is

:50:25.:50:33.

quite clear. It cost me £5 40. So bigger zones, and a new theatre

:50:33.:50:40.

quite clear. It cost me £5 40. So the city. And for children, there

:50:40.:50:44.

are bigger discounts still. Children will get half—price on any ticket

:50:44.:50:50.

whether it is a day ticket or get on a bus to buy a ticket. A child will

:50:50.:51:00.

travelling a short distance. First Bus hope the changes will take them

:51:01.:51:03.

on the highway to passenger numbers. —— higher passenger numbers. More

:51:03.:51:05.

bums on seats will keep passenger numbers up. And it is cleared the

:51:05.:51:12.

way for Bristol's Mayor to drive motorists out of cars to buses to

:51:12.:51:20.

clear jams streets. —— jammed roads. That was the big news in Bristol.

:51:20.:51:26.

Bus fares down. How difficult was it to persuade the company to do that

:51:26.:51:27.

but you might —— to do that? It to persuade the company to do that

:51:28.:51:35.

a long process. It involved the chief executive of First. Bus users

:51:35.:51:39.

have been a very useful pain in chief executive of First. Bus users

:51:39.:51:44.

neck about this and have been at the bus company all the time. I started

:51:44.:51:52.

advantages. I think the bus company has responded really well. They

:51:52.:51:55.

advantages. I think the bus company getting it in the neck from people.

:51:55.:51:59.

I am asking people to give it a chance. 90% of people are winners on

:51:59.:52:02.

this. Kids are real winners. It chance. 90% of people are winners on

:52:02.:52:06.

much cleaner system. Let's see what comes out of it. You want people out

:52:06.:52:13.

of the cars and into bosses. That is the carrot, now presumably you will

:52:13.:52:19.

use the stick. There is an element of carrot and stick in all transport

:52:19.:52:24.

creating the man. What is important is we have a healthy city. Janet

:52:24.:52:30.

here will reinforce that. Always telling us to do things we do not

:52:30.:52:38.

want to do particularly. We have a differential depending where you

:52:38.:52:41.

live in the city, and air quality is a major contributor to that. What is

:52:41.:52:46.

really important is that we three up our roads and streets so that people

:52:46.:52:52.

who essentially need to be on them can move on them instead of us all

:52:52.:52:58.

being part of the problem. Let's bring the doctor back in here. I was

:52:58.:53:05.

a bit cheeky to you. You think it is serious about the health benefits of

:53:05.:53:09.

being in a bus got a Mac being at a bus stop on a wet Monday morning?

:53:09.:53:15.

Huge benefits. As fuel prices go up, younger people are thinking twice

:53:15.:53:18.

about whether to choose to buy a car. We have seen in London a real

:53:18.:53:22.

shift of young people using public available and accessible. We want

:53:22.:53:28.

Bristol to be like that so everyone can use public transport, cycle

:53:28.:53:30.

Bristol to be like that so everyone walk and make journeys easier. That

:53:30.:53:39.

easily, more physically active. It is still not cheap. From a political

:53:39.:53:42.

point of view, it is not cheap. is still not cheap. From a political

:53:42.:53:45.

family of four, even if you get is still not cheap. From a political

:53:45.:53:48.

ticket for a couple of quid, it is still not cheap. From a political

:53:48.:53:53.

still much cheaper to take the car. A family of four, you can get an £8

:53:53.:53:59.

all day to get. On special Sundays, 5p. There are good deals. If you

:53:59.:54:07.

choose the right deal... When we get smart cards, the right deal will

:54:07.:54:09.

automatically come with your smart card. At the moment, if you're

:54:09.:54:14.

within the inner area, get the card. At the moment, if you're

:54:14.:54:20.

all day ticket. Just be intelligent. Thank you for that joining us. Is

:54:20.:54:28.

the bus waiting or the bicycle? Time to look at some of the week's

:54:28.:54:37.

other political news in 60 seconds. This is Josie Channer. She was the

:54:38.:54:42.

Labour candidate in Kingswood but after a BBC investigation revealed

:54:42.:54:46.

she had £2000 in unpaid parking fines, she has resigned. Josie says

:54:46.:54:52.

she only discovered last year she still owed the money to the Borough

:54:52.:54:56.

of Barking and Dagenham where she Left stranded when they left broker,

:54:56.:55:01.

these residents are furious they have been stuck indoors for weeks,

:55:01.:55:06.

so they called in their local MP to see if she could open some doors. I

:55:06.:55:11.

saw representative yesterday and she said it would probably be done by

:55:11.:55:13.

Tuesday. Later that day, we saw said it would probably be done by

:55:13.:55:21.

MP, Charlotte Leslie, and suddenly the left is being repaired today.

:55:21.:55:26.

And there has been criticism from passenger groups after confirmation

:55:26.:55:29.

that the same company is to go on running most of the West's trains.

:55:29.:55:34.

First Great Western had been given a two—year extension to the franchise.

:55:34.:55:44.

Busy week, but aren't they all? You're the chairperson of the South

:55:44.:55:47.

West Labour Board. They help with the selection of candidates. This

:55:47.:55:48.

has been a disaster, hasn't it? the selection of candidates. This

:55:48.:55:52.

candidate who didn't peep arcing fine. —— who did not pay parking

:55:52.:56:00.

fines. Josie has made a personal decision that she will step down

:56:00.:56:05.

from being a candidate in Kingswood and the constituency will select

:56:05.:56:10.

someone else. Why do Japan should someone in from London anyway? ——

:56:10.:56:18.

why did you parachute someone in. She was not parachuted in. There

:56:18.:56:26.

will no—one local who could do it? There was, but the selection process

:56:26.:56:37.

Providing they chose women—owned? It was an all women short list. Tough

:56:37.:56:43.

luck on any talented bloke who might want to stand. The Labour Party

:56:43.:56:47.

luck on any talented bloke who might have a policy of all women short

:56:47.:56:52.

lists. It is only over the last entry and a bit that the Labour

:56:52.:56:56.

Party has existed will there were all men short lists. We now have all

:56:56.:57:02.

That is all we have had time for this week. Thank you to our guests

:57:02.:57:04.

We are getting into a discussion of more affordable homes needed, but we

:57:04.:57:07.

have no time. Andrew, back to you. Our next guest is no stranger to

:57:07.:57:20.

controversy, a former UKIP MEP he recently lost his party's whip after

:57:20.:57:41.

a series of outbursts including receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land'

:57:41.:57:45.

and joking that a group of UKIP women who didn't clean behind their

:57:45.:57:49.

fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits in independent but remains a UKIP party

:57:49.:57:53.

member. Here's a flavour of recent events in the political life of

:57:53.:58:03.

Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly be giving £1 million a month...

:58:03.:58:12.

Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails within 12 hours, only 47 were not

:58:12.:58:15.

agreeing with me so you are the within 12 hours, only 47 were not

:58:16.:58:20.

that is out of touch. Everybody knows me, a bit like the Marmite

:58:20.:58:23.

joke, they love me or they hate knows me, a bit like the Marmite

:58:23.:58:27.

but I have always told me like it is. I made a joke and said that

:58:27.:58:38.

women who did not clean behind the French were sluts and everybody

:58:38.:58:42.

laughed along, including the women. I have had hundreds of e-mails,

:58:42.:58:45.

saying, God Almighty, can't you I have had hundreds of e-mails,

:58:45.:58:51.

a joke any more? I am long in the correctness and I understand UKIP

:58:51.:58:56.

have moved on and they are doing well, and I wish them well. This,

:58:56.:59:10.

with no black faces on it. You are picking people out for the colour of

:59:10.:59:16.

with no black faces on it. You are their skin? You disgust me! Perhaps

:59:16.:59:19.

the way they are doing things now is disgrace me. We are joined now with

:59:19.:59:27.

a suitable distance between us by the independent MEP for Yorkshire

:59:27.:59:34.

and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You said this weekend that you have

:59:34.:59:39.

and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You be a complete sociopath to be in

:59:39.:59:47.

politics, are you a sociopath? No, I am just an ordinary bloke from the

:59:48.:59:51.

rugby club likes to tell it as it is. I did not come into politics to

:59:51.:59:55.

rugby club likes to tell it as it save my country from the clutches of

:59:55.:00:00.

the awful, evil... That is why I am in politics, and that is why I

:00:00.:00:06.

member, and I will still be voting ability... Do you accept that your

:00:06.:00:14.

conference? We were both born in ability... Do you accept that your

:00:14.:00:21.

same year, we are too old to worry about regrets. Let's look forward

:00:21.:00:27.

and see... Never mind the year I was born, what is the answer to my

:00:27.:00:35.

country and intent to do the best I independent for my country, and

:00:35.:00:42.

country and intent to do the best I re-elected. They are the only game

:00:42.:00:45.

in town, the only party that will get as out. Shouldn't you have been

:00:45.:00:54.

liability? You hijacked the party conference. That is a matter of

:00:54.:00:58.

perception. We have heard nothing in the last two years but it is a

:00:58.:01:02.

one-man band, a Nigel Farage party, and I can make a joke at a fringe

:01:02.:01:05.

meeting and collapse the whole thing. This doesn't say anything

:01:05.:01:14.

Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or

:01:14.:01:22.

me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And

:01:22.:01:29.

myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable

:01:29.:01:43.

force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has

:01:43.:01:56.

been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June

:01:56.:02:00.

and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement

:02:00.:02:06.

about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote

:02:06.:02:13.

getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you

:02:13.:02:18.

what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip

:02:18.:02:23.

of that. We are not here to win friends amongst the liberal elite,

:02:23.:02:30.

and Godfrey's problem was that he manifesto. Don't you need to reflect

:02:30.:02:39.

that you are too outrageous, too politically incorrect even for UKIP?

:02:39.:02:41.

Well, you see, to a certain extent I politically incorrect even for UKIP?

:02:41.:02:46.

have been gagged on other subjects. I am a libertarian, I wanted to

:02:46.:02:50.

have been gagged on other subjects. about flat tax. I thought David

:02:51.:02:53.

Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in the times on drugs, and I have been

:02:53.:02:57.

gagged to speak about any of these things because they are not part of

:02:57.:03:01.

it, so I tend to speak about other things. Maybe they have outgrown

:03:01.:03:10.

machine, and they have to get rid of the Victor Meldrew wing. You might

:03:10.:03:13.

have a point, but I am speaking the Victor Meldrew wing. You might

:03:13.:03:17.

you from Hull, and if you look at Barnsley, and very recently in

:03:17.:03:23.

Scarborough and Whitby in the buy legends, 25%, so how you see things

:03:23.:03:28.

in the bubble, it is not like how we see it appear in Yorkshire. You

:03:28.:03:32.

in the bubble, it is not like how we like the one who was sitting in

:03:32.:03:34.

in the bubble, it is not like how we bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of

:03:34.:03:35.

course it isn't, we are getting bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of

:03:35.:03:40.

of the vote in by-elections, of course it is not. Boy, wouldn't

:03:40.:03:45.

of the vote in by-elections, of main parties and the establishment

:03:45.:03:48.

love to see that! But I am sorry, it is not happening. Will you stand as

:03:48.:03:52.

an independence against UKIP in is not happening. Will you stand as

:03:52.:03:55.

European elections? Almost certainly elections were next week, I could

:03:55.:04:07.

do not think I will go that route. Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:07.:04:10.

again? We do not know, probably Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:10.:04:14.

but I shall certainly be trying Will you stand as a UKIP candidate

:04:14.:04:18.

help UKIP as best I can. You both share a flat, I understand, in

:04:18.:04:21.

Brussels, neither of you clean behind the fridge. Other than the

:04:21.:04:26.

fact that the place is probably quite murky, you have got a chance

:04:26.:04:30.

to talk to each other and get back into his good graces, haven't you? I

:04:30.:04:34.

am sure we will be having a beer before the month is out. So Godfrey

:04:34.:04:43.

take it? For those of you who were shrugged! Thank you very much for

:04:43.:04:50.

joining. A great pleasure. I will have to move my own share, you do

:04:50.:04:55.

not have the sea Jeremy Paxman doing that! Nobody votes for UKIP because

:04:55.:05:00.

they think they are a smooth, slick, absence of PR polish is the reason

:05:00.:05:07.

for their popularity, so these are skirmishes are not a problem, and

:05:07.:05:10.

more than that, Godfrey Bloom does make Nigel Farage look better. Even

:05:10.:05:14.

in that clip from Andrew Marr, he juxtaposition with someone like

:05:14.:05:20.

Godfrey Bloom than he has done before. I mean, he did hijacked

:05:20.:05:25.

Godfrey Bloom than he has done conference, it was a disaster, they

:05:25.:05:25.

got tonnes of publicity but not conference, it was a disaster, they

:05:25.:05:28.

kind they wanted. But you have to journalists. I thought he was sexist

:05:28.:05:37.

long before anyone else, he used to have an incredible page on his

:05:37.:05:41.

website entitled Godfrey Bloom: Misogynist, and the proof that he

:05:41.:05:47.

photographed with a girls' rugby characters in politics. He does

:05:47.:05:53.

photographed with a girls' rugby Nigel Farage look better, but is sin

:05:53.:05:55.

was to say things you said before but to ruin the party conference. It

:05:55.:06:01.

sounds like he is coming back. A beer in Brussels and he will be

:06:01.:06:06.

sounds like he is coming back. A on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a

:06:06.:06:06.

beer in that built the Chechen, on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a

:06:06.:06:12.

sounds like it may be what the deal is that he comes back into UKIP

:06:12.:06:15.

sounds like it may be what the deal does not stand as an MEP at the

:06:15.:06:18.

European Parliamentary elections. -- in that built the kitchen. It is

:06:18.:06:22.

right to say the electorate are sophisticated and they know what

:06:22.:06:25.

this party is for, what characters Godfrey Bloom said for people to

:06:25.:06:32.

electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as

:06:32.:06:37.

electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the

:06:37.:06:37.

three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the

:06:37.:06:40.

probably do it in the European elections and give them first place.

:06:40.:06:44.

The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making

:06:44.:06:55.

The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that

:06:55.:06:56.

he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that

:06:56.:06:58.

he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and

:06:58.:06:59.

councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need

:06:59.:07:01.

Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need

:07:01.:07:04.

ministerial reshuffle on the cards, that is the rumour in Westminster.

:07:04.:07:06.

David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster.

:07:06.:07:10.

David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women

:07:10.:07:12.

among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet?

:07:12.:07:14.

He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet?

:07:14.:07:19.

week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way

:07:19.:07:24.

businesses in Britain, there are not boardroom. If you look at politics

:07:24.:07:29.

in Britain, there aren't nearly enough women around the Cabinet

:07:29.:07:34.

table. So I think, in every walk of life, whether it is the judiciary,

:07:34.:07:38.

whether it is politics, business, there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:38.:07:41.

the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:41.:07:44.

women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:44.:07:47.

have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before

:07:47.:07:50.

big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we

:07:50.:07:55.

need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in

:07:55.:08:00.

need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing

:08:00.:08:03.

need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than

:08:03.:08:05.

need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she

:08:05.:08:09.

need to do more. My wife likes to probably has a point. The prime

:08:09.:08:14.

need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I

:08:14.:08:14.

think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I

:08:14.:08:19.

will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to

:08:19.:08:25.

will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin

:08:25.:08:32.

college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool,

:08:32.:08:43.

but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult

:08:43.:08:46.

brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger

:08:46.:08:48.

roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger

:08:48.:08:54.

told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary

:08:54.:08:57.

level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot

:08:57.:09:04.

James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive.

:09:04.:09:07.

What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive.

:09:07.:09:11.

like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City,

:09:11.:09:16.

like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important

:09:16.:09:19.

intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George

:09:19.:09:23.

Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls

:09:23.:09:32.

you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this

:09:32.:09:41.

now, a tonne of bricks will fall on him. He has got no excuse not to

:09:41.:09:48.

promote women, because the 2010 intake was disproportionately female

:09:48.:09:56.

in terms of talent. The question of the Tories and the struggle with

:09:56.:09:59.

women voters is a very deep and historic one. You have to remember

:09:59.:10:03.

that for most of the post-war period they had an advantage electorally

:10:03.:10:07.

amongst women voters. Many times Conservative government without

:10:07.:10:12.

amongst women voters. Many times women of this country. This began to

:10:12.:10:14.

change in the mid-1990s, and the question is, why has that happened?

:10:14.:10:20.

personalities at the top are now much more hostile to women, or less,

:10:20.:10:26.

personalities at the top are now Brent doubled to female voters?

:10:26.:10:27.

personalities at the top are now is such a deep historical trend

:10:27.:10:29.

personalities at the top are now I do not think one reshuffle will

:10:29.:10:35.

change it. -- or less competent civil. The English party conference

:10:35.:10:40.

season is over, do you share the consensus view that Ed Miliband

:10:40.:10:46.

season is over, do you share the out best of the three party leaders?

:10:46.:10:51.

I think I probably do, but his overall approval ratings are still

:10:51.:10:56.

minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus ten. And the more the recovery seems

:10:56.:11:00.

minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus to take place, and some of the

:11:00.:11:02.

latest figures are quite amazing, they certainly surprised me, you

:11:02.:11:07.

wonder whether Labour's tactic is right to put all their eggs into the

:11:07.:11:14.

living standards basket. I was looking at car sales, which are

:11:14.:11:18.

booming. If people start to feel better, and they don't yet, but

:11:18.:11:21.

booming. If people start to feel they were, it is tougher to go on

:11:21.:11:29.

about living standards. George Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband

:11:29.:11:32.

making a great thing about living standards, but then they say under

:11:32.:11:37.

their breath, this is global forces, outstripping wage increases. And

:11:37.:11:43.

you're absolutely right, as the economy improves, presumably that

:11:43.:11:47.

will be dealt with, but Miliband's argument will be that there are

:11:47.:11:50.

people suffering, and even if the economy recovers, they will still

:11:50.:11:56.

forces, it is difficult to blame the government for that. Body being

:11:56.:12:01.

noticed now, there is nothing worse for the leader of the opposition

:12:01.:12:06.

than to be not noticed. -- but he is being noticed now. It seems that he

:12:06.:12:10.

in many ways has set the political weather. Look at the number of

:12:10.:12:12.

references to the Labour leader weather. Look at the number of

:12:12.:12:18.

Mr Cameron's speech. And in Mr Obama's speech on a similar topic,

:12:18.:12:25.

living standards. Was the mentioning Ed Miliband?! Oh, he was using the

:12:25.:12:31.

same language, he has not gone that far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would

:12:31.:12:37.

be more worried now, because Labour through the kitchen sink at their

:12:37.:12:40.

conference. They came out with the biggest policy announcements they

:12:40.:12:44.

could, compulsory apprenticeships, the energy freeze on prices, and it

:12:44.:12:49.

generated a poll boost which has fizzled away within ten days. I

:12:49.:12:54.

generated a poll boost which has not know where they go from here.

:12:54.:12:56.

What is significant with Ed Miliband conference beaches, he has set the

:12:56.:13:03.

one nation Britain, and the problem with those speeches is people say,

:13:03.:13:07.

they are fine, they are academic, but what does it mean? What you

:13:07.:13:14.

they are fine, they are academic, now is an intellectual framework

:13:14.:13:16.

that translates into policies. The polls to watch are not the ones

:13:16.:13:20.

after the conferences, but at the end of the month when it has also

:13:20.:13:23.

pulled down. They will tell us where we are going. We will have to go

:13:23.:13:28.

ourselves now. Thank you to our guests. The Daily Politics will

:13:28.:13:31.

ourselves now. Thank you to our back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two,

:13:31.:13:33.

and I will be back on BBC One this time, same time, next week. If it is

:13:34.:13:37.

Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

:13:37.:13:39.

Andrew Neil and David Garmston with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Including Lord Prescott on press regulation, Godfrey Bloom MEP on his departure from UKIP and shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna on the privatisation of Royal Mail. Also on the programme, Margot James MP and City AM's Allister Heath go head to head on 'help to buy'.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS