29/09/2013 Sunday Politics West


29/09/2013

David Garmston with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Andrew Neil interviews Foreign Secretary William Hague and Labour's Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint.


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do with the lack of talent, it is Sunday Politics. David Cameron

:00:20.:00:47.

house-buyers with deposits. Is he merely stoking a new house price

:00:47.:00:53.

bubble? As Tory activist 's gather in Manchester, we will have the

:00:53.:00:56.

results of our exclusive survey in Manchester, we will have the

:00:56.:00:59.

Conservative councillors. I will be William Hague. And Ed Miliband made

:00:59.:01:06.

headlines with his pledge to freeze energy prices for 20 months after

:01:06.:01:09.

headlines with his pledge to freeze the next election. But does the

:01:09.:01:10.

headlines with his pledge to freeze policy really stack up? Shadow

:01:10.:01:17.

In the West: A battle on the home The government wants to recruit

:01:17.:01:19.

thousands of part time soldiers Underground should be made illegal,

:01:19.:01:26.

With me are a trio of top political commentators. All three will be

:01:26.:01:45.

tweeting their thoughts, or in some cases just their thought through the

:01:45.:01:48.

show, using the hashtag #bbcsp. cases just their thought through the

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Conservative Party conference gets afternoon. We have already been

:01:55.:02:01.

bombarded with a series of policy announcements, a tax break for

:02:01.:02:06.

married couples of up to £200 per year, more money on life extending

:02:06.:02:09.

cancer treatments and, last night, the news that the second stage of

:02:09.:02:13.

the Chancellor's Help To Buy scheme brought forward from the start of

:02:13.:02:18.

next year. David Cameron says it is all about helping hard-working

:02:18.:02:24.

people. Right now, you can't get, 95% mortgage. That means a typical

:02:24.:02:32.

family with two people earning 20,000, 25,000, they are being

:02:33.:02:34.

asked, to buy an average house, 20,000, 25,000, they are being

:02:34.:02:43.

mortgage payment, but they can't get the mortgage. They can't buy their

:02:43.:02:46.

flat or house. As Prime Minister, I'm not going to stand back while

:02:46.:02:50.

people's aspirations to get on the housing ladder, to own their own

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flat or home, is being trashed. housing ladder, to own their own

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is why we need to act. A predictable attempt by party leadership to

:02:57.:03:02.

kick-start the conference with eye-catching policies. The polls

:03:02.:03:05.

show a big bounce for Ed Miliband and the Labour Party, with decent

:03:05.:03:10.

numbers for UKIP. What do party councillors as they travel to their

:03:10.:03:26.

For the Conservatives this weekend, conference, and as a scene setter we

:03:26.:03:36.

asked ComRes to survey councillors are Finland and Wales. Councillors

:03:36.:03:42.

asked ComRes to survey councillors like Tom, packing for conference at

:03:43.:03:45.

home in Wellingborough. Immigration is an issue for him. He thinks there

:03:45.:03:48.

are pros and cons. But we found is an issue for him. He thinks there

:03:48.:03:55.

immigration has had a negative reflects into this wider issue of

:03:55.:04:02.

our relationship with Europe. People possible influx of ovarian and

:04:02.:04:08.

Romania emigrants. Obviously the issue of Europe is very big. --

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Ukrainian. His colleagues in Corby are worried about the rise of the UK

:04:18.:04:23.

Independence Party. In our survey, nearly a quarter of Conservative

:04:23.:04:26.

councillors thought that their party should make a pact with UKIP. The

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concern is, yes, will they take If that happens, maybe we don't

:04:31.:04:40.

concern is, yes, will they take back in. Maybe a partnership is

:04:40.:04:43.

concern is, yes, will they take way to go. It depends what they

:04:43.:04:50.

concern is, yes, will they take talking about them. A pact? Depends

:04:50.:04:50.

what they say, anything is possible. What would you like to see? Ideally,

:04:50.:05:06.

from my point of view, a national pact. David Cameron arrived in

:05:06.:05:11.

Manchester last night. Around the same time as these activists from

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London. I broke the news to them that in our survey just 26% of Tory

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councillors think that the prime ministers in touch with the lives of

:05:23.:05:28.

ordinary people. The same at all Conservatives, you don't judge

:05:28.:05:32.

people by their background. It's not where they come from, it is where

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they are going to. It is not a where they come from, it is where

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problem that he is a bit on the where they come from, it is where

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side? Cull you might describe him like that, I would not use those

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words. Explain your T-shirt, it like that, I would not use those

:05:42.:05:49.

phrase that a senior Cameron person is alleged to have used about you?

:05:49.:05:54.

It is a humorous way of letting is alleged to have used about you?

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party now that we are here to say important. We are not going away any

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time soon. A sentiment you will important. We are not going away any

:06:01.:06:06.

a lot at this conference, because just 22% of councillors in our

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survey said that David Cameron was any good at listening to the people

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that work hard for his party. That was Adam. Joining me now from the

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Conservative Party conference in William Hague. Welcome to the Sunday

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Politics. Good morning. Over one in five Tory councillors in our survey

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support a pact with UKIP at the five Tory councillors in our survey

:06:33.:06:36.

election. Why do you think that five Tory councillors in our survey

:06:36.:06:39.

If it is one in five, it means a large majority did not want a pact

:06:39.:06:41.

with UKIP at the next election. large majority did not want a pact

:06:41.:06:46.

have noticed that UKIP, in local elections, has been receiving votes,

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some of which would otherwise have been for the Conservatives. I think

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we have to make sure that people election they are choosing between a

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Conservative and Labour Government, as David Cameron as Prime Minister

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or Ed Miliband. If people want to get a referendum on Europe, the

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or Ed Miliband. If people want to way to do that is to have David

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Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a

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general election is different from the local government perspective. It

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is pretty unusual, some might say unprecedented, for a large chunk of

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one of the big parties in this country to want to go into coalition

:07:20.:07:23.

one of the big parties in this with a smaller party before an

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happened? Looking at your survey, three times as many didn't want

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happened? Looking at your survey, with statistics, you can highlight

:07:36.:07:38.

it whichever way around you want to. The point is, we are not having

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pacts with other parties, electoral pacts with other parties. You rule

:07:42.:07:48.

it out? That is not going to happen. What we do want is to have a pact

:07:49.:07:52.

it out? That is not going to happen. with the voters, if you like, as we

:07:52.:07:55.

have often done in the Conservative Party. We have won over the voters

:07:56.:08:00.

of other parties to support our policies and Prime Minister. That is

:08:00.:08:02.

important with those people that say important with those people that say

:08:02.:08:05.

they want to vote for UKIP. By default, they would produce a Labour

:08:05.:08:08.

government in the exact opposite of many of the things they intend,

:08:08.:08:13.

government in the exact opposite of Conservative and decide to vote

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government in the exact opposite of UKIP instead in a general election.

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That could help to produce a Labour government. The chairman of the

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That could help to produce a Labour committee, the elected voice of

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Conservative backbenchers, he says your party should spell out what had

:08:29.:08:32.

once back from the European Union before next year's European actions.

:08:32.:08:38.

Do you agree? We will be spelling out some things in the European

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elections. I will be talking about this later on today. For instance,

:08:44.:08:53.

European treaties the concept of ever closer union, a concept that in

:08:53.:08:58.

believed in. We would like that ever closer union, a concept that in

:08:58.:09:03.

consequences that would flow from that. We will be setting out the

:09:03.:09:07.

examples and principles of the changes we want to say. Certainly

:09:07.:09:12.

over the next year, not only before the European actions but the general

:09:12.:09:16.

election, if you are saying, let have the exact list of anything

:09:16.:09:21.

election, if you are saying, let negotiate, that is difficult because

:09:21.:09:24.

there will be a negotiation of a new deal in Europe if David Cameron

:09:24.:09:29.

there will be a negotiation of a new election. To some extent, that has

:09:29.:09:35.

to be negotiated. Only 11% of your own councillors feel that people in

:09:35.:09:38.

their area think that George Osborne is in touch with ordinary people.

:09:38.:09:46.

is not for me to explain why people say what they say in surveys. The

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important thing is what we are delivering for the country. What

:09:53.:09:56.

George Osborne is delivering his renewed economic growth. 1.4 million

:09:56.:10:00.

new jobs in the private sector, renewed economic growth. 1.4 million

:10:00.:10:06.

for hard-working people, by reducing the tax for 25 million of them.

:10:06.:10:09.

for hard-working people, by reducing Help To Buy scheme that we are

:10:09.:10:12.

highlighting today. That is what really matters to people, actually,

:10:12.:10:16.

I think you will find. Let's talk about helping ordinary people. Ed

:10:16.:10:20.

Miliband is guilty freeze energy prices. What are you going to do

:10:20.:10:28.

about energy prices, we already asked energy companies to put people

:10:28.:10:36.

on their lowest tariffs. This has not been amended. -- implemented.

:10:36.:10:45.

Why not? This is going to happen within this government. It is going

:10:45.:10:51.

to happen within this government when the... Why hasn't it happened

:10:51.:10:58.

now? People are suffering now from rising energy prices. It has not

:10:58.:11:01.

happened because my colleagues have been implimenting it. In the case of

:11:01.:11:07.

Ed Miliband's policy, if you are asking why it has not yet happened

:11:07.:11:10.

under this Government, it didn't even survive a few our's scrutiny in

:11:10.:11:16.

opposition. In a few hours he had to concede that if there was a big

:11:16.:11:19.

change in oil prices then the policy would not work. The trouble is,

:11:19.:11:22.

change in oil prices then the policy would dry up some of the investment

:11:22.:11:30.

in the energy industry. I don't think it is a credible promise.

:11:30.:11:33.

in the energy industry. I don't a party that presided over council

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tax bills doubling in the next a party that presided over council

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tax bills doubling in the next government, -- last government,

:11:40.:11:46.

tax bills doubling in the next not very credible. Why is George

:11:46.:11:48.

Osborne going against the European Well, we don't want to see the

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European treaties used in a way Well, we don't want to see the

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they should not be used. It's not necessarily over this particular

:11:56.:12:01.

issue. It is over the power that the European Union has over our lives

:12:01.:12:04.

and over this country. Can the bankers look after themselves? We

:12:05.:12:08.

should be able to decide those things in our own country. We have

:12:08.:12:11.

never signed up to such matters things in our own country. We have

:12:11.:12:18.

European institutions. If you allow one thing that wasn't meant to be

:12:18.:12:20.

decided to be decided, you find one thing that wasn't meant to be

:12:20.:12:24.

there are another ten or 20 things that affect many other people. We

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are very vigilant about what we that affect many other people. We

:12:26.:12:32.

competence creep, with the European Union taking more powers than it was

:12:32.:12:36.

meant to have. That is one of the referendum, do want a new deal in

:12:36.:12:41.

Europe. That is what we intend to institution, ICAP, fined for fixing

:12:41.:12:51.

the LIBOR rates. The founder of institution, ICAP, fined for fixing

:12:51.:12:56.

company has donated £5 million to your party. Shouldn't you give it

:12:56.:13:00.

back? Aren't you ashamed to accept that money? He has donated his own

:13:00.:13:08.

Which he made out of ICAP. As people have to other parties, people are

:13:08.:13:09.

free to do that and they should have to other parties, people are

:13:09.:13:13.

free to do that. I am not aware have to other parties, people are

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any plan for that to be repaid. Because you can't afford to. Let's

:13:16.:13:21.

recap this. We have seen Tory MPs parrot propaganda lines from the

:13:21.:13:25.

energy companies this week. We have the Chancellor going to court to

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fight for unlimited banker bonuses. We have a top Tory donor the centre

:13:29.:13:33.

fight for unlimited banker bonuses. of yet another city scandal. Ed

:13:33.:13:35.

Miliband is right when he says you lot are on the side of the vested

:13:35.:13:39.

interests so the rich and powerful, isn't he? Well, again, look at the

:13:39.:13:46.

record. I just did! 1.4 million extra jobs in the private sector, 25

:13:46.:13:52.

million people with a tax cut, a Help To Buy scheme which is going to

:13:52.:13:56.

help so many people, particularly young people have the house that

:13:56.:14:03.

future. Council tax bills held down, welfare reform so that it pays to

:14:03.:14:08.

work. Actually, this is a government achieving things for hard-working

:14:08.:14:10.

While President Laugharne he's talking about peace, the Iranians

:14:11.:14:32.

weapons programme. -- is talking. It would be hard to say from week

:14:32.:14:37.

to week whether it is speeding up continuing with it. That is why

:14:37.:14:45.

to week whether it is speeding up say the new message - the new words

:14:45.:14:48.

- from Iranian leadership are very welcome. I said that to the Foreign

:14:48.:14:52.

Minister in New York over the last few days but it is the actions that

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will count. At the moment, the nuclear programme continues. We

:14:57.:15:03.

negotiations on that and that will be a very important test as to

:15:03.:15:06.

whether actions will match the words. When will we know it if we

:15:07.:15:12.

are being strung along? He has strung as a long in the past as

:15:12.:15:17.

are being strung along? He has nuclear weapons negotiator. When

:15:17.:15:20.

will we know if he is not just doing that again? Over the next

:15:20.:15:24.

will we know if he is not just weeks, it will be a very important

:15:24.:15:27.

time. He has said there should be more transparency over the Iranian

:15:27.:15:34.

transparent in many regards at the moment. The atomic agency is asking

:15:34.:15:40.

for information that is not being given. One test is, in the coming

:15:40.:15:47.

information? The information that the international of authority is

:15:47.:15:51.

asking for about their nuclear programme. We will be able to form

:15:51.:15:55.

a view of this in the coming weeks or months. It is important we test

:15:55.:16:00.

their new willingness to talk to us important to find out whether they

:16:00.:16:09.

asking, is the nuclear programme really continuing? Are they really

:16:09.:16:14.

negotiations and offer something Speaking of being strung along,

:16:14.:16:22.

what sanctions would President Assad face if, in six months - the

:16:22.:16:31.

Year, Syria still has a chemical weapons arsenal. In the resolution

:16:31.:16:36.

we voted through the UN Security Council on Friday night, is the

:16:36.:16:44.

Council will take measures under Chapter seven of the UN Charter

:16:44.:16:50.

Council will take measures under the event of non-compliance. Does

:16:50.:16:53.

that allow full force? I did not catch that. Does that allow for

:16:53.:17:00.

Security Council resolution about Iraq, which most people concluded

:17:00.:17:05.

in not allow full force. It does not specify that. It talks about

:17:05.:17:13.

terms seven of the charter. That is a message of the whole UN Security

:17:13.:17:18.

Council that there will be measures - there will be consequences - if

:17:18.:17:24.

the Assad regime does not comply. has a big commitment. I have spent

:17:24.:17:33.

counterpart over the last week. Russia has said, this is something

:17:33.:17:38.

you will have to do. We will work with Russia and others very closely

:17:38.:17:43.

to check there is compliance will this resolution. Given the progress

:17:43.:17:48.

that has been made, you must be very glad that the British House of

:17:48.:17:53.

Commons stopped your rash to force against Syria. -- rush. The reason

:17:53.:18:08.

credible threat of military action. has happened is because there was a

:18:08.:18:14.

credible threat of military action. President Obama did not get it

:18:14.:18:14.

through Congress. They have not President Obama did not get it

:18:14.:18:20.

the vote in Congress. There is no other explanation as to why the

:18:20.:18:25.

policy changed. It was because there was a debate about military

:18:25.:18:29.

action in the West that the policy changed on theirs. That is why it

:18:29.:18:35.

changed. We were not in a rush for military action. The boat put to

:18:35.:18:39.

the House of Commons was to have inspectors reported. It was before

:18:40.:18:50.

Russian and Syrian policy changed. We need to make sure that works

:18:50.:19:02.

Russian and Syrian policy changed. practice. Thank you. What do you

:19:02.:19:04.

make about this rushing forward with the help to buy scheme which

:19:04.:19:09.

was meant to start next year - coming forward mad to the next

:19:09.:19:14.

couple of weeks? I think it is a Government having an interest in

:19:14.:19:28.

mortgage lending. -- there is a fundamental problem. It should have

:19:28.:19:33.

been set much lower to exclude London and the South East where

:19:33.:19:38.

houses are dramatically overvalued. Many economists think freezing

:19:38.:19:44.

energy prices is a terrible policy. These policies can be popular. If

:19:44.:19:49.

you have no chance of getting a deposit, the Government will make

:19:49.:19:58.

Osborne tried every single lever. It looked like he could not do

:19:58.:20:04.

anything to get the economy moving. It is moving. They have pulled it

:20:04.:20:11.

forward and there are signs it is recovering. The reason why they

:20:11.:20:14.

forward and there are signs it is doing this is they want to show

:20:14.:20:17.

this week at the conference there are real sort of understandable

:20:17.:20:21.

issues you can explain very simply that really up going to improve

:20:21.:20:25.

people's lives. The Conservatives Miliband's speech last week. The

:20:25.:20:34.

nuts. Much more cautious and -- language about the energy price

:20:34.:20:49.

freeze. They are nervous that Ed Miliband may be touching a nerve on

:20:49.:20:54.

that one. What we will get this week, I suggest, his Tory populism

:20:54.:21:02.

to counter Miliband populism. I think we will see that and it will

:21:02.:21:04.

be a mistake. As long as it is think we will see that and it will

:21:04.:21:10.

about The Picture, they are on relatively strong ground. When the

:21:10.:21:18.

political conversation changes to more fiddly things, particularities

:21:18.:21:19.

standards, things that are some more fiddly things, particularities

:21:19.:21:26.

below that picture, I do not think they can win a bidding war with

:21:26.:21:30.

below that picture, I do not think Labour Party. It is about borrowing

:21:31.:21:31.

against a party that stands for Labour Party. It is about borrowing

:21:31.:21:43.

before the Labour conference, which is unemployment, GDP growth and

:21:43.:21:48.

before the Labour conference, which warming economic picture. That does

:21:48.:21:54.

not pay energy bills. Does not sound that the Tories have anything

:21:54.:22:00.

not pay energy bills. Does not to counter the price freeze. --

:22:00.:22:02.

not pay energy bills. Does not does not sound. They have had a

:22:02.:22:04.

week to think about a great attack line and they do not add anything.

:22:04.:22:09.

the credibility test. Ed Miliband said, if there were a big spike

:22:09.:22:32.

the credibility test. Ed Miliband energy prices, he would not be able

:22:32.:22:33.

it is about credibility. Being seen as serious and grown-up is worth

:22:33.:22:52.

it is about credibility. Being seen more than any burst of popularity.

:22:52.:22:52.

with the election campaign, it My worry about the announcement

:22:52.:23:01.

with the election campaign, it begins to lose credibility, begins

:23:01.:23:06.

to seem a banana republic. It looks a lot less wise than it did last

:23:06.:23:12.

week. I disagree. Every time energy bills go up and they will continue

:23:12.:23:13.

to go up, it will be a reminder bills go up and they will continue

:23:13.:23:18.

how much people are being hit in the pockets. People know by energy

:23:18.:23:24.

prices are going up. There is a structural change in the world that

:23:24.:23:28.

was not there before - China and India. These energy companies may

:23:28.:23:33.

be making huge profit but, at the end of the day, what is driving

:23:33.:23:39.

be making huge profit but, at the the cost of fuel is China and India.

:23:39.:23:42.

Ed Miliband, great man that he is, I am not sure he can take on the

:23:42.:23:47.

people Sammir on that one. How dare Labour's Conference in Brighton

:23:47.:23:56.

last week. Dogged by criticism over the summer of his leadership style

:23:56.:23:59.

and lack of policies, Mr Miliband tried to demonstrate his strength

:23:59.:24:02.

of character with a series of bold announcements, and attempted to

:24:02.:24:04.

position himself on the side of ordinary Brits. The Labour leader

:24:04.:24:11.

told party members he would stand up to the strong and take on the

:24:11.:24:13.

vested interests that hold back up to the strong and take on the

:24:13.:24:17.

economy. In a speech in which he jokingly referred to himself as

:24:17.:24:21.

economy. In a speech in which he action hero, Mr Miliband promised

:24:21.:24:21.

to switch the forthcoming business action hero, Mr Miliband promised

:24:21.:24:26.

tax cut from large firms to smaller businesses. He said he would force

:24:26.:24:30.

big firms to train at an apprentice every time they bring in a worker

:24:30.:24:35.

from outside the EU. He hinted that increasing the minimum wage would

:24:35.:24:40.

be increased. He bowed to take on developers with a use it or lose it

:24:40.:24:47.

threat to landowners and pledged to build 200,000 homes each year by

:24:47.:24:52.

2020. He promised to freeze energy prices and reset the energy market.

:24:52.:24:57.

The next Labour government will freeze gas and electricity prices

:24:57.:25:06.

provoked a rash of headlines - hailing the return of red Ed macro.

:25:06.:25:12.

It has also given him a spike in the polls. And Labour's Shadow

:25:12.:25:14.

Ed Miliband says, our energy market is broken and does not work. In

:25:15.:25:33.

what way is that market to date different from the one Labour left

:25:33.:25:42.

companies that dominate the energy generate energy, and sell it on

:25:42.:25:53.

companies that dominate the energy Miliband recognised when he was

:25:53.:25:55.

Secretary of State and asked for more information from the company

:25:55.:25:59.

Secretary of State and asked for is on hold serve costs and profits,

:25:59.:26:00.

all the things we have done to mitigate against that in terms of a

:26:00.:26:04.

warm front programme and everything Horsell market is too secretive

:26:04.:26:13.

warm front programme and everything it is too much about such supply. -

:26:13.:26:16.

- the wholesale market. We have been raising with the Government in

:26:16.:26:18.

a co-operative way the argument been raising with the Government in

:26:18.:26:25.

resetting the market. It has got worse in terms of speed at which

:26:25.:26:31.

prices have gone up. Labour put wholesale and retail together. It

:26:31.:26:34.

was the start this dates back to wholesale and retail together. It

:26:34.:26:40.

was the start this dates back to privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:40.:26:40.

realised it was not working and privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:40.:26:48.

was broken and we need to reset privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:48.:26:50.

Ed Miliband will be the first to onwards. Let's have a look at what

:26:50.:26:55.

happened to energy prices under onwards. Let's have a look at what

:26:55.:26:59.

Labour government. Electricity up 67%, gas up 139%. Overall prices up

:26:59.:27:08.

by 48%. The market was broken and we saw prices biking as wholesale

:27:08.:27:14.

prices went up. The tick action we saw prices biking as wholesale

:27:14.:27:21.

the one Front programme, decent homes for social housing. -- we

:27:21.:27:30.

programme. Trying to do things around social obligations needs

:27:31.:27:35.

programme. Trying to do things be looked at. Gas and electricity

:27:35.:27:43.

presided over but as a consequence of Labour policy. Beds have a look

:27:43.:27:45.

at the breakdown of dual fuel - of Labour policy. Beds have a look

:27:46.:27:52.

and electricity bill. -- let's have a look. The supply costs of getting

:27:52.:27:59.

it to us and so on. The policies government - Green levies - are

:27:59.:28:11.

energy bills. £112 on average bill of 1188. You have put the bill up.

:28:11.:28:24.

obligations amount to £112. That helps the poorest insulate homes.

:28:24.:28:29.

Overwhelmingly, looking at your wholesale costs are worth more than

:28:29.:28:36.

half. What we have seen, based on figures we now have, in Eni macro,

:28:36.:28:43.

a wholesale costs fell by 39% and that was not reflected in our bills.

:28:43.:28:52.

Do you have plans to do anything about the £112? If you took that

:28:52.:28:57.

off, you could cut bills by 10% tomorrow. Or if you were in power.

:28:57.:29:02.

It is important that restimulate energy. It -- we stimulate. If we

:29:02.:29:11.

do not have clean energy, we will be beholden for ever-more to fossil

:29:11.:29:16.

do not have clean energy, we will fuels that are depleting. It will

:29:16.:29:20.

create jobs and bring in investment will start in the last few years,

:29:20.:29:30.

investment. If I could go back to whatever advance there are, looking

:29:30.:29:37.

at whether the money raised through energy companies to deliver energy

:29:37.:29:41.

efficiency, is that doing as well as it might? Could it be better

:29:41.:29:46.

delivered by another agency? They are fair questions. We need to get

:29:46.:29:53.

market. Can we make the market will competitive make sure when there is

:29:53.:29:57.

downward pressure on wholesale prices, that is reflected on our

:29:57.:30:02.

bills? That is the bigger picture argument. Also the freeze to help

:30:02.:30:04.

As you complain about the energy prices, it was as a result of your

:30:04.:30:17.

actions. Ed Miliband introduced prices, it was as a result of your

:30:17.:30:20.

climate change act. He admitted prices would have to rise to pay for

:30:20.:30:27.

decarbonisation. He said, we are going to minimise the costs as much

:30:27.:30:30.

as possible, but it is true there is not a low-cost energy future out

:30:30.:30:35.

there. It is important that we address the pressures on bills,

:30:35.:30:38.

there. It is important that we also recognise that if we are going

:30:38.:30:40.

to build a better future where we can have more home-grown British

:30:40.:30:47.

renewables. Truth is it is about the market. I acknowledge I acknowledge

:30:48.:30:59.

wholesale prices have fallen. They fell in 2009, we got a reduction in

:30:59.:31:08.

bills of 5%. Which are saying that the big companies are overcharging

:31:08.:31:12.

customers. We are seeing profits going up, but we haven't seen the

:31:12.:31:16.

amount of investment suggested by those profits coming through. But

:31:16.:31:24.

because your leader said in his speech in Brighton that Labour will

:31:24.:31:27.

have a world leading commitment speech in Brighton that Labour will

:31:27.:31:31.

Government to take out all carbon from energy generation by 2030.

:31:31.:31:35.

Government to take out all carbon is not that far away. By 2030, no

:31:35.:31:37.

more coal generation, no more gas generation, only much more expensive

:31:37.:31:42.

nuclear and much more expensive without bills going up even further?

:31:42.:31:51.

Hang on a second. The 2030 target to remove carbon from the electricity

:31:51.:31:55.

supply, we have said we should set a target now because, actually, it

:31:55.:31:59.

gives us more time to plan ahead and also allows investment to come in.

:31:59.:32:02.

There is plenty of people with cash in their pockets not want to invest

:32:02.:32:06.

what they are stalling because of the Government's hesitancy over

:32:06.:32:09.

this. I just want a clarification here. My understanding is that your

:32:09.:32:14.

commitment is to get rid of all carbon from power generation by

:32:14.:32:19.

2030? From the letters city supply. Only electricity. We will still

:32:19.:32:23.

2030? From the letters city supply. gas? We have always said we will

:32:23.:32:27.

need gas for decades to come. So we are clear for that. But you will be

:32:27.:32:37.

increasingly dependent on expensive nuclear. EDF are currently demanding

:32:37.:32:41.

twice the market price to build plans in this country. Renewables

:32:41.:32:47.

are two or three times the market price. Bills are going up under

:32:47.:32:54.

are two or three times the market policies? On nuclear, we took a

:32:54.:32:56.

decision under the Labour Government that we needed to revitalise the

:32:56.:33:00.

sector, to hit targets on clean that we needed to revitalise the

:33:00.:33:05.

energy and make sure it can do the heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:05.:33:08.

discussions with EDF about what heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:08.:33:13.

important, because I don't know heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:14.:33:16.

it's going to be, it is important that stands up to scrutiny in terms

:33:16.:33:19.

of value for money. At the same time, I go back to market reforms.

:33:19.:33:26.

difference, the jargon for nuclear, We will not just have a target for

:33:26.:33:31.

difference, the jargon for nuclear, we will have it for renewables as

:33:31.:33:35.

well. That is even more important, that we have a transparent market so

:33:35.:33:36.

that we can have a robust target that we have a transparent market so

:33:36.:33:42.

that we can have a robust target price to be judged against. Michael

:33:42.:33:43.

Gove recognised in question time they used the term cosy cartel.

:33:43.:33:55.

Gove recognised in question time Cameron saying something needs to be

:33:55.:33:58.

done. I'm surprised David Cameron doesn't acknowledge that. You are

:33:58.:34:04.

going to freeze prices for 20 months regulator to replace Ofgem. Will

:34:04.:34:07.

that regulator have the power to regulator to replace Ofgem. Will

:34:07.:34:11.

control prices? The new energy wholesale costs and prices, which it

:34:11.:34:19.

moment. As a result of that it will wholesale costs and prices, which it

:34:19.:34:28.

wholesale prices fall, it can force the energy companies, if they don't,

:34:28.:34:34.

to pass on reductions in bills to consumers. It will not have what we

:34:34.:34:38.

see in some parts of the European Union, 15 of them, that have a

:34:38.:34:42.

variety of price controls that set things at below inflation and what

:34:42.:34:45.

have you. France, Spain, Italy. things at below inflation and what

:34:45.:34:50.

will not do that. Why? Because we are looking at a temporary price

:34:50.:34:54.

freeze to reflect a reduction in are looking at a temporary price

:34:54.:35:00.

British public respite from ever reforms into the market. At the

:35:00.:35:05.

British public respite from ever of this, what we want is a more

:35:05.:35:06.

competitive market that can be trusted, that is more transparent.

:35:06.:35:11.

We do believe it is right that, actually, we need a regulator that

:35:11.:35:16.

has much more of a role in making effectively. Are you accusing energy

:35:16.:35:19.

companies of profiteering? EU I effectively. Are you accusing energy

:35:19.:35:29.

accusing them of overcharging and not passing on wholesale reduction

:35:29.:35:30.

costs to the customer in a fair not passing on wholesale reduction

:35:30.:35:41.

Of making Carter -- cartel profits? I do believe that the level of

:35:41.:35:48.

profits they have passed on to their shareholders is high, compared to

:35:48.:35:51.

the reductions they could have provided to consumers. Let's look at

:35:51.:35:52.

the evidence for that. Here are provided to consumers. Let's look at

:35:52.:35:59.

British owned companies, SSE and Centrica. In the last fiscal year

:35:59.:36:01.

they made combined earnings of Centrica. In the last fiscal year

:36:01.:36:10.

billion. The remaining money went to debt servicing and paying dividends,

:36:10.:36:15.

which go into pension funds. Where profiteering? My figures that I

:36:15.:36:20.

which go into pension funds. Where through their reporting to Ofgem and

:36:20.:36:28.

work done by other organisations, Witch and others, it shows that

:36:28.:36:30.

work done by other organisations, Centrica's case they have something

:36:30.:36:34.

like 8% return in profit margins on the retail side. That goes up to 24%

:36:34.:36:39.

on the generation side. They have passed on, in terms of profits,

:36:39.:36:45.

something I70 4% through evidence to shareholders. But these figures

:36:45.:36:47.

don't show that. They have invested £3 billion. I am reporting what

:36:47.:36:57.

don't show that. They have invested been reported by Ofgem. Ofgem has

:36:57.:37:01.

They may well be, but we don't have the evidence. I would accuse Ofgem

:37:01.:37:03.

of not doing the job they should be of not doing the job they should be

:37:03.:37:06.

doing, and they have held back from across the big six, something like

:37:06.:37:16.

50% of profits has gone over to Centrica's case it is 74%. On the

:37:16.:37:22.

Centrica example, even though they have had the highest profit margins,

:37:22.:37:27.

they have invested the least. It is fair to question. We are running out

:37:27.:37:32.

of time. None of us really know fair to question. We are running out

:37:32.:37:36.

the true price of energy is that is crucial. That is because he merged

:37:36.:37:42.

the market and we can't tell the difference. If they continue putting

:37:42.:37:46.

prices up, even after your price freeze, if they don't invest in

:37:46.:37:50.

prices up, even after your price way that they do, do you rule out

:37:50.:37:56.

competitive market and that is why watching Sunday Politics. Coming up

:37:56.:38:02.

in just over 20 minutes I will be looking at the week ahead with our

:38:02.:38:03.

Coming up, has Sergeant Wilson in dad 's Army would say, are you sure

:38:03.:38:26.

that wise? The government wants Ridge Greece hundreds of part of

:38:26.:38:30.

soldiers and get rid of colleagues in the regular army —— wants to

:38:30.:38:39.

Our two politicians ready to do battle of the conservative from

:38:39.:38:44.

his Labour opponent Mark Dempsey. Welcome to you both. We get the

:38:44.:38:50.

impression the election campaign has started. I think so. Had a really

:38:50.:38:54.

great conference, Ed Miliband has set up a drastic agenda about how we

:38:55.:38:57.

can build a better country, and set up a drastic agenda about how we

:38:57.:39:04.

is interesting, he has made some reaching energy prices for the next

:39:04.:39:11.

apprenticeships, help for those people who need help with childcare,

:39:11.:39:16.

and the country for many, not the few. Did he have a point when he

:39:17.:39:21.

said I understand the cost of living important point. We are starting to

:39:21.:39:28.

see growth return to the economy and see how we can share the proceeds of

:39:28.:39:32.

growth amongst all people. It will be a key issue at the election.

:39:32.:39:37.

growth amongst all people. It will is the opposition leader is finally

:39:37.:39:41.

announcing some policies, some will grab headlines, some unravelled

:39:41.:39:47.

it is good, creating those dividing lines and allow us to focus the

:39:47.:39:52.

debate. It will be quite a battle in Swindon. I think so, but for me

:39:52.:39:55.

politics is about hope and building a better future. That is what I

:39:56.:40:00.

politics is about hope and building about with Swindon. We have got

:40:00.:40:02.

politics is about hope and building serious challenges, trying to build

:40:02.:40:05.

the new economy for the time, trying to regenerate our town centre, and

:40:05.:40:08.

unlocking hope and opportunity for young people. So you don't want

:40:08.:40:15.

exceptionally hard in a positive manner, the biggest swing in the

:40:15.:40:27.

disruption next month as teachers staged trikes. It is about pay and

:40:27.:40:29.

conditions —— stage strikes. It staged trikes. It is about pay and

:40:29.:40:38.

led to the secondaries in Somerset being labelled as not good enough.

:40:38.:40:43.

Please pay attention, we may ask The government talk of a revolution

:40:43.:40:52.

in education, free schools and academies, harder exams, changed

:40:52.:40:56.

curriculums, tougher inspections. It is not just rank—and—file teachers

:40:56.:41:01.

who are frustrated. The secondary school get some of the best GCSE

:41:01.:41:06.

results in Somerset, the controversy inspection. A flawed visit and the

:41:06.:41:14.

were not ready for what we thought was a negative attitude that the

:41:14.:41:21.

inspectors came with, they seemed to be looking for negative part of

:41:21.:41:24.

inspectors came with, they seemed to school and ignored the very many

:41:24.:41:27.

positive aspects we have. Ofsted 's ratings have recently been toughened

:41:27.:41:32.

up, as a consequence is a set of secondary schools, nearly half,

:41:32.:41:36.

up, as a consequence is a set of officially not good enough. But

:41:36.:41:37.

worried parents wanting answers couldn't go to the council, as they

:41:37.:41:41.

are all academies which answer to the government. It was four days

:41:41.:41:45.

before the Minister responsible Many of the academies have only

:41:45.:41:52.

converted recently so I don't think we would have expected to see all

:41:52.:41:54.

the benefits of academy status. we would have expected to see all

:41:54.:41:58.

really crucial thing in schools we would have expected to see all

:41:58.:42:03.

not the brand on the gate, it is the leadership. Academies with their

:42:03.:42:11.

unpopular with many teachers. Nine days ago they protested outside

:42:11.:42:14.

Gloucester Academy as the education secretary came to visit. And nobody

:42:14.:42:20.

should try and make a profit out of education, teaching pupils. It is to

:42:20.:42:24.

let Michael Gove but we're not happy education system in this country.

:42:24.:42:29.

Most teachers have been asked to strike. Nobody is helped by going on

:42:29.:42:33.

strike, it is bad for children's education, parents are they have to

:42:33.:42:38.

pay more for childcare and bad for the reputation of the teaching

:42:38.:42:42.

profession. The showdown is looming, with disruption in some areas this

:42:42.:42:48.

week and in the West on October with disruption in some areas this

:42:48.:42:52.

We can speak to the head of the Somerset. Are these strikes really

:42:52.:42:59.

about pay or other teaching unions waging a political war? It is not

:43:00.:43:04.

about political motivation, it is about disruption and the sense of

:43:04.:43:10.

anger and frustration teachers feel they are not allowed to get on with

:43:10.:43:16.

which is teaching children. The Secretary of State wants to improve

:43:16.:43:21.

standards. The way he is right to do it is with a stick rather than a

:43:21.:43:25.

carrot, he attempt to change terms and conditions which have been

:43:25.:43:33.

negotiation at the notional —— local and national level, he wants to

:43:33.:43:37.

negotiation at the notional —— local that up and change the way teaching

:43:37.:43:39.

is done to the detriment. He wants performance related pay. What is the

:43:39.:43:46.

problem? If they were sorely out of 80 by pay you could understand that

:43:46.:43:50.

circumstance but it doesn't work like that, they are motivated by

:43:50.:43:53.

their want to be able to teach collaboratively. If you are playing

:43:53.:43:58.

one teacher in one consumer set amount and another one a different

:43:58.:44:02.

amount, there will be difficulties loosely teachers are competing,

:44:02.:44:07.

amount, there will be difficulties will not want to work together to

:44:07.:44:11.

The government has got rid of this classification of satisfactory,

:44:11.:44:18.

The government has got rid of this satisfactory you are classed as

:44:18.:44:22.

being not good enough. That is reasonable, isn't it? The problem

:44:22.:44:28.

difficult for them. Many teachers over many years have been labelled

:44:28.:44:33.

as good or satisfactory, that means doing the job well enough. Everybody

:44:33.:44:39.

would like to improve. I used to get satisfactory report at school and

:44:39.:44:43.

that meant rubbish. That something your school report, David. Do you

:44:43.:44:49.

recognise this criticism of the government? Some of the trade union

:44:49.:44:55.

against these changes but they are not as angry as parents are. Look at

:44:55.:44:58.

the situation we inherited, one not as angry as parents are. Look at

:44:58.:45:01.

of three children leaving primary school not able to read and write.

:45:01.:45:06.

Maybe we are going to quickly, but if we are not quick to bring in

:45:06.:45:09.

these urgent reforms and changes we Are you not concerned about acting

:45:09.:45:16.

too quickly? I don't think we are going quick enough. I went to a

:45:16.:45:21.

state school myself, all children only have one opportunity, we have a

:45:21.:45:25.

duty to make sure every single young person, regardless of background,

:45:25.:45:29.

not just somebody who can afford to go to private education, can get the

:45:29.:45:33.

best opportunity to acquaint them and it frustrates me, parents, that

:45:33.:45:38.

some of the tiny minority of trade union people wants to stand in the

:45:38.:45:42.

way of giving children the chance. The revelation will study by Labour.

:45:42.:45:49.

They have put a huge amount of money schools across the country. I grew

:45:49.:45:56.

classrooms that were crumbling and state—of—the—art schools and I feel

:45:56.:46:00.

really proud of that. I'm worried about reports coming through from

:46:00.:46:07.

are seeing cuts to education related to the 1950s, that will not help

:46:07.:46:12.

school standards. There will be to the 1950s, that will not help

:46:12.:46:17.

cuts under Labour? We have got to make sure money is spent properly.

:46:17.:46:22.

Willoughby cuts? The free schools that have been announced or often

:46:23.:46:29.

take in —— taking places from where there is a real demand. In Swindon

:46:29.:46:33.

there is a massive demand for school places, there are shortage for

:46:33.:46:34.

families that want to get their places, there are shortage for

:46:34.:46:39.

into primary school and secondary school and at the moment it is not

:46:39.:46:46.

self—interest, teachers are more you ask any teacher, whatever they

:46:46.:46:56.

voted, they will tell you what they are interested in is motivating

:46:56.:46:59.

children and improving standards. When they see a government that

:46:59.:47:04.

comes in, and trying to change terms and conditions which means they

:47:04.:47:07.

comes in, and trying to change terms got to work longer, get paid less,

:47:07.:47:10.

work until they are 68, too tired to teach, they find that strange and

:47:11.:47:14.

they are not going to be able to do that and the pace of change is far

:47:14.:47:19.

too fast, it is too difficult for them. He said it is not fast enough.

:47:19.:47:25.

absolutely frazzled. They work incredibly hard. I visit a lot of

:47:25.:47:31.

time visiting schools and my family is a family of teachers, and on

:47:31.:47:36.

performance related pay, it is absolutely right and proper that we

:47:36.:47:40.

reward and incentivise the best teachers. We seek some teachers

:47:40.:47:46.

reward and incentivise the best go that extra mile to help people 's

:47:46.:47:48.

bring them opportunities, it is madness for a tiny amount of people

:47:48.:47:56.

It is day one of the Conservative party conference and a row over

:47:56.:47:58.

It is day one of the Conservative much the government is spending

:47:58.:48:00.

It is day one of the Conservative defence is already rearing its head.

:48:00.:48:03.

Here in the West 40,000 people are employed by the military, but the

:48:03.:48:07.

numbers of regular troops being reduced, is it time to rethink

:48:07.:48:14.

These are just some of our part—time soldiers, on a training exercise

:48:14.:48:23.

redundancy programme in the regular army numbers will fall from just

:48:23.:48:30.

extraterritorial soldiers or Army reservist as they will soon be

:48:30.:48:34.

known, just like these, are being drafted in to bolster numbers.

:48:34.:48:37.

recruitment drive with the hope drafted in to bolster numbers.

:48:37.:48:45.

raising those number of reservist from just 19,000, up to 30,000,

:48:45.:48:53.

I2018. But it is controversial with this retired Major General amongst

:48:53.:48:59.

Conservative led coalition should rethink their plans. If you what I

:48:59.:49:07.

immediate things, education, health, and therefore it is tempting to

:49:07.:49:12.

immediate things, education, health, government as to have defence as the

:49:12.:49:14.

number one priority, the defence of interest is really important. If you

:49:14.:49:20.

intend to do it properly at this very expensive. The key is what

:49:20.:49:26.

exactly do we intend to do on the world stage in future, and that

:49:26.:49:29.

would actually alter the budget world stage in future, and that

:49:29.:49:35.

Doubts about the recruitment process are also causing concerns amongst

:49:36.:49:39.

some of David Cameron's then back inches, but the Conservative MP

:49:39.:49:45.

some of David Cameron's then back repressed Eve. He spent a year

:49:45.:49:48.

deployed here in Afghanistan, just before he was elected to Parliament.

:49:48.:49:51.

I got an immense sense of pride before he was elected to Parliament.

:49:51.:50:00.

serving, I felt I had missed out by not being a soldier and doing my

:50:00.:50:03.

bit, I was interested in military affairs. He has no doubt about

:50:03.:50:09.

expanding the number of reservists leadership over the pace of the

:50:09.:50:19.

We are loyal to the government most of the time but there are times

:50:19.:50:23.

We are loyal to the government most opinions may differ from others

:50:23.:50:25.

We are loyal to the government most the first responsibility of every

:50:25.:50:29.

government is defence of the realm, protection of our people, there

:50:29.:50:33.

government is defence of the realm, risk that we're going as near as a

:50:33.:50:37.

something happened, we can never predict these things, I think we

:50:37.:50:43.

Will the recruitment drive work gesture marked several other numbers

:50:43.:50:47.

seems to —— seem to suggest it will be a battle in itself. If you see

:50:47.:50:52.

them working in Afghanistan, Iraq, you wouldn't know the difference,

:50:52.:50:55.

they are totally interchangeable with the regular army, but that

:50:55.:50:59.

takes an enormous amount of money to train to that level and animal ——

:50:59.:51:04.

enormous commitment for the soldiers and to the employers who have got to

:51:04.:51:08.

let them go for six months at a time, and go for more training than

:51:08.:51:17.

Tomorrow the Army will be showing off their latest recruits in a

:51:17.:51:21.

training exercise just like this one, but on Salisbury plain. The

:51:21.:51:22.

Ministry of Defence has told us one, but on Salisbury plain. The

:51:23.:51:28.

recruitment drive to be slow. The hope still remains that West Country

:51:28.:51:31.

men and women, just like these, hope still remains that West Country

:51:31.:51:36.

excitement than they get in their day job, will want to sign up before

:51:36.:51:43.

We were hoping to speak to Brigadier recruitment recess but he has been

:51:43.:51:48.

called out on manoeuvres. They sent us this statement and said Saint

:51:48.:51:52.

week have always said it was going committed to getting minimus and we

:51:52.:52:00.

are going to make it work. It is your party that wants to do this, is

:52:00.:52:11.

post—Afghanistan state, the world is changing, we don't know whether

:52:11.:52:14.

post—Afghanistan state, the world is would be cyber attacks, land—based,

:52:14.:52:17.

navy based, have based, and it is creating greater flexibility in

:52:17.:52:21.

navy based, have based, and it is context of tough financial times. In

:52:21.:52:25.

an ideal world, I hear what some of the people were saying during that

:52:25.:52:28.

clip, you would want to spend more defence, health, education, the

:52:29.:52:34.

right villages, but we are creating something after Afghanistan that is

:52:34.:52:39.

fit for purpose, flexible and ready for new challenges. What would

:52:39.:52:44.

Labour do? The concern is due have seen a reduction in army numbers,

:52:44.:52:48.

and yet you are not able to recruit reservists to replace that, that is

:52:48.:52:53.

a real concern, there are questions about the private sector contract

:52:53.:52:56.

which needs to be resolved. There are three things you need to sort

:52:56.:52:58.

out, first investigate what has are three things you need to sort

:52:58.:53:03.

wrong, I believe we have called National Audit Office to do that,

:53:03.:53:07.

and it is about the pace of change, even people like Sir Michael Rojo

:53:07.:53:14.

said the pace of change is too fast and resulting in a change that could

:53:14.:53:19.

be potentially fatal so you need to secondly, critically, you need to

:53:19.:53:24.

make sure the reservists are in place before you start reducing

:53:24.:53:27.

make sure the reservists are in numbers. The safety of people is

:53:27.:53:30.

paramount. You cannot do anything other than make sure people are

:53:30.:53:31.

safe. Who is the enemy? That is other than make sure people are

:53:31.:53:36.

challenge, that is what we don't know which is why we have got to

:53:36.:53:39.

have greater flexibility. You have the reservists, better equipment, we

:53:39.:53:46.

look back to when we went into Iraq without overly equipping our rave

:53:46.:53:52.

troops, it is getting the balance, —— rave troops. There is no appetite

:53:52.:54:00.

for war in this country. Unless their foreign troops on the mend its

:54:00.:54:04.

another war so isn't it sensible to Cross—party there was no appetite

:54:04.:54:11.

regardless of the circumstances Cross—party there was no appetite

:54:11.:54:14.

we would see that in probably many other circumstances. No foreseeable

:54:14.:54:19.

war, why do we need search a large military? You need to make sure

:54:19.:54:23.

war, why do we need search a large are fit for purpose and planned

:54:23.:54:32.

war, why do we need search a large have jeopardised the effectiveness

:54:32.:54:34.

of the armed services, rather than planning it in the long term so

:54:34.:54:37.

of the armed services, rather than are ready for whatever might happen

:54:37.:54:41.

Who knows what is round the corner. The Prime Minister has ruled out any

:54:41.:54:45.

pact with the UK Independence party, even though the Conservatives are

:54:45.:54:48.

being badly hit by the rise in their support. I went to number ten to

:54:48.:54:55.

Thank you for having us. You talk of economic recovery might yet the

:54:55.:55:00.

number of people using food banks in the West Country has doubled over

:55:00.:55:01.

the last year, this recovery is the West Country has doubled over

:55:01.:55:06.

for everybody, is it? We need to everybody, we made a good start

:55:07.:55:12.

because for instance in your region employed in the private sector then

:55:12.:55:16.

there were when this government employed in the private sector then

:55:16.:55:20.

to office, but clearly we need the recovery to build, we want everybody

:55:20.:55:23.

to benefit, we want to be a recovery that create even more jobs, help

:55:23.:55:28.

people with things dancers, we want to cut taxes and let people out

:55:28.:55:38.

people with things dancers, we want continues today, we have been frank

:55:38.:55:41.

and said job centres should be able to point people towards food banks

:55:41.:55:45.

if they are in need and that has resulted in an increase in their

:55:45.:55:50.

use. Over time, we want to see more themselves and their families. Jacob

:55:50.:55:55.

Rees Mogg, MP for Somerset, do you know him? He has got a plan for

:55:55.:56:00.

Rees Mogg, MP for Somerset, do you to get re—elected, he said the pact

:56:00.:56:07.

re—elect you and Nigel Farage can be your deputy. The Conservative party

:56:07.:56:12.

should put itself forward and say economy is recovering, don't turn

:56:12.:56:18.

back and read it with Labour but stick with us and we will build

:56:18.:56:21.

back and read it with Labour but recovery for role with jobs and

:56:21.:56:21.

being on the side of people who recovery for role with jobs and

:56:21.:56:27.

hard. People will have to make a confronted with a choice, stay on

:56:27.:56:32.

Conservatives or put it all at risk anti—business, anti—recovery plans,

:56:32.:56:39.

more spending, more borrowing, more debt, people will have to choose and

:56:39.:56:42.

they will choose to stay on the right track. Jacob has many good

:56:42.:56:50.

David Cameron talking to me this interesting idea. After all, you

:56:50.:56:56.

have got much more in, with UKIP than with the Lib Dems. I have

:56:56.:57:01.

always had sympathies with their position on Europe but the Prime

:57:01.:57:08.

individual parties, people was —— people with passion their judgement

:57:08.:57:14.

and we will see what happens. UKIP Rwanda pony, on Europe they have got

:57:14.:57:16.

policies, everything else, who knows? —— UKIP are a one trick pony

:57:16.:57:24.

up from all parties, it is not so much about Europe, it is about a

:57:24.:57:31.

political parties. We have had a by—election in Swindon, Labour

:57:31.:57:33.

thought they would take the seat because of votes switching to UKIP

:57:34.:57:45.

and it didn't happen. We want an overall majority, that is what we

:57:45.:57:48.

are setting out to do. We want to set out our stall for why we want

:57:48.:57:54.

win the next general election, tackling the cost of living crisis.

:57:54.:57:58.

Would you be happy working with tackling the cost of living crisis.

:57:58.:58:03.

collaboration between parties, or we do that in the council chamber,

:58:03.:58:07.

collaboration between parties, or we work together with the gender is to

:58:07.:58:09.

win the next general election and the Labour Party conference sure

:58:09.:58:10.

they do have the vision to take the Labour Party conference sure

:58:10.:58:15.

These are some of the hundreds of firefighters from across the West

:58:15.:58:27.

who went on strike this week in firefighters from across the West

:58:27.:58:30.

dispute with the government over their pensions. It only lasted four

:58:31.:58:33.

hours and there were no incidents other than some burnt toast. I don't

:58:33.:58:43.

firefighters rescuing them day and night. They understand our concerns.

:58:43.:58:48.

There has been an exodus of senior managers from Bristol City Council,

:58:48.:58:51.

all of the heads of department were offered voluntary redundancy and

:58:51.:58:55.

five of them took it. It is unclear how many of those will be replaced.

:58:55.:58:58.

When the cab respect the closed pension residence worried what would

:58:58.:59:02.

happen to the old site. This week plans were approved for new houses

:59:02.:59:08.

and read about and other sports club. It is standing empty on Weston

:59:08.:59:12.

seafront and councillors are trying to decide what should happen to

:59:12.:59:15.

seafront and councillors are trying old Tropicana site. The government

:59:15.:59:18.

has ruled they cannot knock it down so redevelopment is now the only

:59:18.:59:19.

firefighters strike. They can get a but at 55 they bring in a fitness

:59:19.:59:37.

test and if you don't pass that but at 55 they bring in a fitness

:59:37.:59:43.

pension, is that fair? I think the concern people have is you will

:59:43.:59:48.

pension, is that fair? I think the up with firefighters that are not

:59:48.:59:52.

Conservative government have had two years to try and resolve this, and I

:59:52.:59:56.

really don't want to see a strike which could endanger lives. They

:59:56.:59:58.

need to get back to negotiating which could endanger lives. They

:59:58.:00:04.

sorted out. Credit to the union which could endanger lives. They

:00:04.:00:06.

straight in a manner that didn't put any problems in four hours but they

:00:06.:00:09.

would come back if they would be anything serious. Ghosh Asians are

:00:09.:00:13.

continuing, Yvette Cooper has as what we are doing is the right way,

:00:13.:00:20.

—— and negotiations are continuing. If you dial 909, due at a bloke

:00:20.:00:28.

—— and negotiations are continuing. me 55 turning up? It is a credit to

:00:28.:00:30.

the union they struck in a manner that something was serious they

:00:30.:00:34.

would have come back. Ghosh Asians need to continue, they have got

:00:34.:00:37.

would have come back. Ghosh Asians be realistic what they are asking

:00:37.:00:44.

That is all we have got time for. Thank you to Mark and Justin for

:00:44.:00:50.

joining us and welcome back to Jack, the MP who we saw in the film, he

:00:50.:00:56.

has been off work treated for cancer that is failing much better, we

:00:56.:01:01.

has been off work treated for cancer him a full and speedy recovery.

:01:01.:01:05.

for. My thanks again to Mary McLeod and Emily Thornberry. Back to you,

:01:05.:01:05.

So, we'll David Cameron's marriage tax break win over voters? How will

:01:05.:01:25.

So, we'll David Cameron's marriage conference initiatives? And what is

:01:25.:01:36.

UKIP leader Nigel FarageFarage up to with the Tories in Manchester?

:01:36.:01:41.

On this business of a possible Tory- UKIP pact, in a general election,

:01:41.:01:56.

let's see what David Cameron had to say about that earlier. I am not

:01:56.:02:02.

looking for a packed. I think we need to give people a clear choice

:02:02.:02:05.

at the general election. The British economy has turned a corner. We

:02:05.:02:09.

at the general election. The British on the right track, we are seeing

:02:09.:02:11.

more jobs, new businesses, we are beginning to get things moving

:02:11.:02:14.

again. Do you want to stick with us, hard-working people, or do you want

:02:14.:02:20.

to put it at risk with Ed Miliband hard-working people, or do you want

:02:20.:02:25.

and his crazy plans to tax business out of existence? That was the Prime

:02:25.:02:31.

there any appetite on the UKIP side discussions around the country,

:02:31.:02:39.

there any appetite on the UKIP side would say no. It's being discussed,

:02:39.:02:50.

is the media that is pushing this. It has reflected what has happened

:02:50.:02:53.

conference season began. Labour It has reflected what has happened

:02:53.:02:59.

trying to reclaim what I would call position. I'm not sure what the

:02:59.:03:05.

Liberal Democrats or two, but the Conservatives are trying to react to

:03:05.:03:11.

accusation they are lurching more to the right, which the media wants to

:03:11.:03:16.

able to do some sort of pact with interpret as them possibly being

:03:16.:03:20.

able to do some sort of pact with UKIP. Have you given any thought to

:03:20.:03:26.

whatsoever. It is not on the radar. I have read comments, including

:03:26.:03:33.

Carswell, the Eurosceptics, that they might form a potential, let's

:03:33.:03:39.

call it, you know, cabinet. If there were UKIP members, I don't doubt

:03:39.:03:43.

that Nigel Farage would be one of them. But I would reiterate it is

:03:43.:03:46.

not discussions that are taking place. I am thinking more of an

:03:46.:03:54.

have responded to that by saying, the moment, there are no ongoing

:03:54.:03:58.

discussions. There is certainly constituency level or coming out of

:03:58.:04:05.

believe any constituencies are Eurosceptics? I am not privy to

:04:05.:04:14.

believe any constituencies are all 360 constituencies might be

:04:14.:04:16.

discussing. All I can do is give you the example of the few I have seen

:04:16.:04:22.

and know it is not on the agenda. Without a pact, it is perfectly

:04:22.:04:24.

possible that you could fail to Without a pact, it is perfectly

:04:24.:04:29.

a single seat at the next election, but put Ed Miliband into Downing

:04:29.:04:34.

Street? Categorically not. There are a number of seats out there that are

:04:34.:04:36.

very clear marginals, just like a number of seats out there that are

:04:36.:04:53.

Izzard was. I believe there could be an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If

:04:53.:04:58.

you take enough votes away from an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If

:04:58.:05:02.

Tories, if you make sure that Labour wins? I will go back to the comment

:05:02.:05:07.

I made. If you take Eastleigh as an example, a Liberal Democrat held

:05:07.:05:12.

seat, even after that result, does not mean that UKIP is suddenly going

:05:12.:05:17.

to be focusing on Tory seats. We are out there because people resonate

:05:17.:05:21.

with our message. For the Liberal Democrats to make it abundantly

:05:21.:05:23.

clear that they will not support a referendum, that they will not

:05:23.:05:27.

support any discussion on leaving the queue, that could be a big

:05:27.:05:31.

turn-off for voters. David Cameron says there is not going to be a

:05:31.:05:33.

pact, Diane James says there is says there is not going to be a

:05:33.:05:36.

going to be one. There might be says there is not going to be a

:05:36.:05:38.

or at a constituency level. But says there is not going to be a

:05:38.:05:41.

seems clear to me that there will not be a national one. So, does

:05:41.:05:46.

David Cameron have a UKIP strategy? The only encouraging thing for

:05:46.:05:48.

UKIP's successful David Cameron that the moment that he would only

:05:48.:05:51.

that their support is so enormous that the moment that he would only

:05:51.:05:55.

really need to win back maybe a third or a quarter of its to make a

:05:55.:05:58.

decisive difference to the Tory share of the vote in 2015. The

:05:58.:06:02.

question becomes, how much of that UKIP support is up for grabs? A

:06:02.:06:07.

question becomes, how much of that last week suggested that 47% of

:06:07.:06:09.

current UKIP voters would consider voting Tory if it meant preventing

:06:09.:06:12.

Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister. That number goes up to 57% against

:06:12.:06:18.

recovery. So, plausibly, there is secondary question is, what does

:06:18.:06:25.

David Cameron do to win over those people? He has tried a Europe will

:06:25.:06:29.

referendum and it didn't work. He tried travelling up his immigration

:06:29.:06:32.

policy and that didn't work. I wonder if it is time. You wait until

:06:33.:06:38.

the run-up to 2015, when they start to focus on the explicit choice

:06:38.:06:44.

Cameron, and that is what shifts a Cameron. We heard from William Hague

:06:44.:06:52.

earlier in the programme, the Tory line is that if you vote UKIP you

:06:52.:06:55.

could end up with Ed Miliband in Downing Street. That is the simple

:06:56.:07:01.

appeal, isn't it? Yes, and I think Diane is right, I think the European

:07:01.:07:07.

elections will show a good showing for UKIP. It is deemed the one where

:07:07.:07:12.

you can play away. I think it will be hard for people to get excited

:07:12.:07:14.

about that, I think that bounce be hard for people to get excited

:07:14.:07:20.

fade away. In Eastleigh, they had a good ground game, that is difficult

:07:20.:07:26.

for UKIP, that don't have that machinery sorted. How are they going

:07:26.:07:28.

to fund that operation? But the machinery sorted. How are they going

:07:28.:07:33.

bounce could fade away after the European elections. Even if they go

:07:33.:07:39.

election, they are still immensely dangerous to the Conservative Party.

:07:39.:07:43.

But there is really only two things David Cameron can do. One is to

:07:43.:07:47.

But there is really only two things boring and talk about helping people

:07:47.:07:49.

with their mortgage, helping with bread and butter issues. The second

:07:49.:07:54.

thing is, those European actions, he tends to the natural Conservative

:07:54.:07:57.

voters and says, you have had your fun, next year do you want me or Ed

:07:57.:07:59.

Miliband us your prime and? The fun, next year do you want me or Ed

:07:59.:08:03.

danger with David Cameron is saying, of course, there is not going to be

:08:03.:08:07.

a pact, the danger is you will get a repeat of the 1977 election. John

:08:07.:08:13.

Major said, famously, do not bind my hands. A series of Conservative

:08:13.:08:19.

personally rule out membership of the euro, when the Conservative

:08:19.:08:23.

membership was wait and see. That looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:24.:08:25.

charge of his party. The danger looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:25.:08:31.

Let's assume you do really well looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:31.:08:34.

the European actions and there is a widespread expectation that you

:08:34.:08:41.

will, even in Downing Street. They might be managing expectations.

:08:41.:08:44.

will, even in Downing Street. They stops you fading away as the general

:08:44.:08:47.

election approaches? A number of reasons. As has been mentioned,

:08:47.:08:50.

election approaches? A number of whole issue of the referendum pledge

:08:50.:08:52.

has been proved to be an absolute nonsense. It is so contingent on if

:08:52.:08:59.

I am re-elected, if it's not a coalition government, is, if, if.

:08:59.:09:07.

That was fooled nobody. The issue of where voters are coming from, it is

:09:07.:09:08.

because they have lost faith in where voters are coming from, it is

:09:08.:09:12.

David Cameron says. There is nothing he is going to say that is convince

:09:12.:09:18.

think that is my view and the view of a lot of UKIP. I am told that

:09:18.:09:21.

they have expunged Nigel Farage of a lot of UKIP. I am told that

:09:21.:09:29.

the fringes? It is a great scoop, on the front page. They are outside the

:09:29.:09:33.

ring of steel. Even so, they won't programme, so they must be worried

:09:33.:09:38.

paid money for adverts in the Tory about something. His people have

:09:38.:09:42.

paid money for adverts in the Tory brochure and his name has been taken

:09:43.:09:43.

out. Speaking of people the Tory brochure and his name has been taken

:09:43.:09:47.

leadership is worried about, Boris Johnson, are we in any doubt as

:09:48.:09:52.

leadership is worried about, Boris interview that he is now beginning

:09:52.:09:59.

his long march back to Parliament? He does express feeling slightly sad

:09:59.:10:01.

during the Syria debate that he He does express feeling slightly sad

:10:01.:10:04.

not there, on the political front line to participate. I still do

:10:04.:10:09.

not there, on the political front see why it is in his interest is to

:10:10.:10:14.

move before 2015. No, I don't think he will move before, I think he

:10:14.:10:17.

move before 2015. No, I don't think sending a signal to the existing

:10:17.:10:17.

Tories in the Commons that when sending a signal to the existing

:10:17.:10:29.

Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the Vince Cable problem, if you

:10:29.:10:33.

Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the same thing too many times,

:10:33.:10:36.

people get bored and factor it in. The interesting thing is him saying

:10:36.:10:40.

that people have seven years before the electorate get bored of them. He

:10:40.:10:45.

might be cresting that. He doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he is

:10:45.:10:48.

much more ambitious than that. He wants to be an emperor. He was

:10:48.:10:55.

asked, which Roman emperor would you like to be compared to? You said,

:10:55.:11:02.

important. I don't think you are thinking big enough. See what I

:11:02.:11:09.

important. I don't think you are to put up with, every Sunday? By

:11:09.:11:09.

virtue of being born in the US, to put up with, every Sunday? By

:11:09.:11:14.

could be president. Unlike Arnold Schwarzenegger. How about a deal

:11:14.:11:23.

with Boris? He has made no secret, after Eastleigh, that he would be

:11:23.:11:27.

open to a discussion. Let's call it no more than a discussion. He has

:11:27.:11:31.

been adamant, however, he does not see any reason, any justification or

:11:31.:11:36.

any opportunity where he would be able to have that discourse with

:11:36.:11:42.

any opportunity where he would be David Cameron. Maybe it comes down

:11:42.:11:45.

to that on both sides. I've no idea. We know that the Tories will be

:11:45.:11:49.

to that on both sides. I've no idea. more Eurosceptic after the next

:11:49.:11:52.

election? I can't imagine David Cameron's successor will be somebody

:11:52.:11:56.

that supports EU membership in ideological direction of the party.

:11:56.:12:04.

The leadership contest will be about 2018. If you are standing, when

:12:04.:12:05.

this is a great deal for Britain membership, are you going to say

:12:05.:12:12.

this is a great deal for Britain because the Prime Minister has

:12:12.:12:14.

turned to leave rapid change two words in the working Time directive,

:12:14.:12:17.

turned to leave rapid change two or are you going to become a leader

:12:17.:12:20.

by saying, I want out? What would be a good conference for David Cameron

:12:20.:12:31.

eye-catching announcement related to living standards. May be a clearer

:12:31.:12:36.

line on energy prices? That would certainly help, that fightback has

:12:36.:12:41.

been rubbish so far. The thing we should be looking out for are not

:12:41.:12:44.

the polls immediately after, but the ones about the end of October, when

:12:44.:12:47.

everything gets to settle down and then we will see what happens. In a

:12:47.:12:53.

word, what is Nigel Farage out to get at the Tory conference? What is

:12:53.:12:57.

he doing, other than mischief? I could almost say revenge. Revenge on

:12:57.:13:05.

Mr Cameron? Yes. You know? Lord Ashcroft was there at the Labour

:13:05.:13:11.

conference. You call it mischief, but there is every reason why he

:13:11.:13:15.

should be there. We all call it mischief. Thanks for being with

:13:15.:13:19.

should be there. We all call it Join me on Daily Politics for live

:13:19.:13:22.

coverage of the Conservative Party conference tomorrow morning from

:13:22.:13:25.

11:30 on BBC Two. We will bring conference tomorrow morning from

:13:26.:13:29.

George Osborne's speech live and uninterrupted. I'll be back next

:13:30.:13:33.

weekend when guests will include former Conservative Chancellor

:13:33.:13:34.

Kenneth Clarke. Remember, if it former Conservative Chancellor

:13:35.:13:37.

Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:37.:13:40.

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