Browse content similar to 22/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
councillors don't think he's doing a good job, will that be enough to | :00:53. | :01:01. | |
partying like it's 2006, as Damian McBride's memoirs re-ignite the | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell will tell us why he is sickened | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell infighting, Conservative Party | :01:13. | :01:13. | |
Chairman Grant Shapps will give infighting, Conservative Party | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
In the West, under new management, Western General Hospital is staying | :01:16. | :01:30. | |
business. In London, Labour commands over the two thirds of the ethnic | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
minority vote but now stands accused of institutional racism. Are they | :01:36. | :01:44. | |
right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax. | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships. | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr | :02:12. | :02:23. | |
It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey. | :03:02. | :03:12. | |
conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we | :03:12. | :03:19. | |
surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference. | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference. | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great | :03:32. | :03:40. | |
week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the | :03:42. | :03:48. | |
party would have a better chance if someone else was in charge at the | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
next election. You will see more of Ed Miliband as we run-up to general | :03:55. | :04:02. | |
election. He has been in the job for three years! Now it is crunch time. | :04:02. | :04:11. | |
The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked by roughly one third of the party as | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
well. Ed Balls is not a pop your man. He says things and he speaks | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
his mind. -- not a popular man. diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not | :04:23. | :04:32. | |
seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre | :04:32. | :04:40. | |
When it comes to relations with trade unions, the majority of Labour | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
councillors thought things were absolutely fine. Just 9% thought | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
things with the unions were a little bit too close. Tricky because Ed | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
Miliband want to loosen the link. The shadow environment secretary | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
arrived in Brighton ride bicycle from London to raise money for | :05:00. | :05:08. | |
councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
parliament, just over half said the next election results in a hung | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
would tell the lid Dems to get on their bikes. We would never say | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
would tell the lid Dems to get on to going into coalition. It gives us | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief | :05:46. | :05:53. | |
Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start | :05:53. | :06:03. | |
with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back | :06:17. | :06:26. | |
socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have | :06:26. | :06:34. | |
socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families. | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all | :06:42. | :06:49. | |
policies that I think the country are calling out for after three | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages | :06:54. | :07:01. | |
for 38 out of the 39 months but Minister. I think that is the most | :07:01. | :07:08. | |
important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
working people, not the privileged few like this government with their | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your | :07:39. | :07:49. | |
run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he | :07:52. | :08:01. | |
councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds | :08:01. | :08:02. | |
of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is | :08:14. | :08:22. | |
the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will | :08:37. | :08:38. | |
also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
apprenticeships, giving a break public. Policies like expanding | :08:40. | :08:47. | |
struggling. I think people will public. Policies like expanding | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
what kind of a leader that he is. Well he has a mountain to climb | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
among all voters. Let me ask the question. Just 12% see him as a | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
Prime Minister in waiting, just question. Just 12% see him as a | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
see him as a natural leader. Why? If question. Just 12% see him as a | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
those polls. It is hard being leader demonstrate how you would be Prime | :09:16. | :09:22. | |
Minister. By nature you are in opposition. But he has taken on | :09:22. | :09:29. | |
Rupert Murdoch and the press barons. That is strong leadership, standing | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
up to the vast majority. If you That is strong leadership, standing | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening | :09:38. | :09:45. | |
ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
making the right decisions. If that gone from 14 points one year ago to | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
at most four points now. What went wrong? Well we are six or eight | :10:00. | :10:08. | |
are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour. | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be | :10:24. | :10:25. | |
a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money | :10:41. | :10:52. | |
after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying | :11:28. | :11:37. | |
schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone. | :11:46. | :11:52. | |
It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority | :11:52. | :12:02. | |
where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital | :12:11. | :12:19. | |
spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls | :12:41. | :12:48. | |
and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was | :12:48. | :12:55. | |
the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that | :12:59. | :13:09. | |
the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am | :13:09. | :13:09. | |
asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there. | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband. | :13:25. | :13:37. | |
that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues | :13:42. | :13:50. | |
should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring? | :14:01. | :14:10. | |
That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings | :14:10. | :14:17. | |
of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour | :14:22. | :14:23. | |
that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour | :14:23. | :14:38. | |
serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards, | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to | :15:10. | :15:24. | |
make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's | :16:02. | :16:09. | |
economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
coming through already before the conference has started. You have | :16:31. | :16:41. | |
childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free? | :16:41. | :16:47. | |
childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an | :16:49. | :16:56. | |
art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything. | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues, | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick | :18:17. | :18:25. | |
Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have | :18:25. | :18:32. | |
convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly | :18:50. | :18:51. | |
at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to | :19:01. | :19:15. | |
them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going | :19:20. | :19:20. | |
to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour | :19:32. | :19:39. | |
Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about | :20:05. | :20:12. | |
all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is | :20:30. | :20:46. | |
this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party | :20:57. | :21:04. | |
Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week. | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their | :21:09. | :21:17. | |
Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
annual shindig in Glasgow, some ministers were non-too complimentary | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
about their blue blood fellows. ministers were non-too complimentary | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
bedfellows. Vince Cable led the ministers were non-too complimentary | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
the Lib Dems had champion, such and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime | :21:49. | :21:58. | |
Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people, | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections | :22:05. | :22:13. | |
in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
shake hands again after the 20 question mark in the two leaders | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
election, what policies were David Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
matter how many times Nick Clegg And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his | :22:32. | :22:48. | |
conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16 | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right | :23:10. | :23:11. | |
to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know | :23:15. | :23:24. | |
the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape. | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what | :24:44. | :24:52. | |
ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days, | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated | :25:21. | :25:27. | |
on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there | :25:27. | :25:33. | |
was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here | :25:36. | :25:44. | |
it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that | :25:52. | :26:01. | |
up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib | :26:01. | :26:09. | |
Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative | :26:35. | :26:36. | |
Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April | :26:41. | :26:48. | |
will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is | :26:52. | :27:06. | |
David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying, | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford | :27:17. | :27:24. | |
unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all | :27:46. | :27:54. | |
threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority | :27:59. | :27:59. | |
Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the | :28:36. | :28:36. | |
world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the | :28:36. | :28:43. | |
versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
agendas. I think that you did a even more Thatcherite, market led | :28:52. | :28:59. | |
amount to show this country that if you want to help the least well | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
amount to show this country that if people in society, and the least | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
trade, and I think we should have an free trade. If there is another | :29:14. | :29:15. | |
trade, and I think we should have an parliament, and the poll suggest | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away | :29:25. | :29:31. | |
from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
you don't end up with negotiation setting out a very clear platform | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
which will be for hard-working people in this country who want | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
which will be for hard-working work hard and get on in life. We | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into, | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
we plan to ensure that this is an do a day's work and get the money at | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative. | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
you have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017, that | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
must be your first Red Line? We membership of the EU in 2017, that | :30:19. | :30:27. | |
clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no | :30:27. | :30:35. | |
poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament, | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the | :30:38. | :30:46. | |
EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems, | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to | :31:04. | :31:13. | |
coalition government question mark manifesto. What is wrong with yes or | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on. | :31:31. | :31:41. | |
Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more. | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether | :32:05. | :32:07. | |
with Mr King? I do not think it getting to the end of your tether | :32:07. | :32:22. | |
terribly helpful for any Cabinet minister to make comments like that. | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
What I would say is that Nick Clegg minister to make comments like that. | :32:24. | :32:35. | |
is the leader of the Lib Dems and himself. Look at these figures on | :32:35. | :32:45. | |
party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
has changed. People do not rush it to be more. But I think the world | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
and join political parties as they used to. Instead they support you in | :32:58. | :33:07. | |
different ways. If I released the number of people who give to the | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
party in different ways, through donations for example, through | :33:12. | :33:18. | |
friend memberships. If you include that that figure goes back up. But | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
a time when UKIP has doubled. I that that figure goes back up. But | :33:23. | :33:35. | |
not want to to misinterpret what I want to say. It is important to | :33:36. | :33:43. | |
not want to to misinterpret what I members. I think we will have done | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had | :33:47. | :33:57. | |
constituency. The difference was I deliver leaflets and knock on the | :33:57. | :34:05. | |
doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of | :34:05. | :34:14. | |
people, volunteers who are not days when you expect people to give | :34:14. | :34:24. | |
you £25, before you accept their spoke about your most vulnerable | :34:24. | :34:33. | |
marginal seats. This is a poll from marginal seats that you will be | :34:33. | :34:45. | |
defending. Labour is way up, you are way down and UKIP is also up. What | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- way down and UKIP is also up. What | :34:48. | :34:59. | |
disillusioned Conservatives are moving to UKIP. If these figures | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
any opinion poll is that it is perhaps accurate at the moment it is | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
taken. We are now in a position where the economy has turned the | :35:17. | :35:26. | |
corner. The right thing to do was to deal with the deficit. The people | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
being asked about these things, deal with the deficit. The people | :35:29. | :35:35. | |
will be interested in their own standard of living. Their mortgage | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
payments. Why are you doing worse in the marginal seats? National League | :35:41. | :35:49. | |
you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the pick to | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
come 2015, people will see that Labour. Well if that is the pick to | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
government has stuck to its guns. It did not go for more borrowing and | :35:58. | :36:06. | |
demonstrates that the last thing you want to do is give the car keys | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
demonstrates that the last thing you to the people who crashed it in | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
demonstrates that the last thing you first place. Lynton Crosby at this | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
away day of Conservative MPs, his one message was to go all out and | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
attack Ed Miliband. It is going one message was to go all out and | :36:21. | :36:28. | |
actually not true. We are going one message was to go all out and | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
focus on his policies, if he finally announces some. Everything we have | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
seen so far suggests it would mean more borrowing and spending. The | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
shadow chancellor said we would more borrowing and spending. The | :36:42. | :36:53. | |
ruthless, just a few months later, committed by Labour. These are your | :36:53. | :37:05. | |
figures. I will speak to you about watching the Sunday Politics. Coming | :37:05. | :37:14. | |
up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair not-too-positive review of Damian | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
McBride's memoirs. Until then, Thank you. Welcome to your local | :37:16. | :37:34. | |
part of the programme. Coming up today: The sell—off of Western | :37:34. | :37:41. | |
General Hospital is controversial but now a possible conflict of | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
interest has angered campaigners, but will the politicians listen | :37:45. | :37:56. | |
interest has angered campaigners, through the process. Charlotte | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
Leslie and Thagnam Debbonaire, thank you for coming. Our top story this | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
Sunday is the future of Western General Hospital. It will stay part | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
of the NHS but the management will be taken over by outsiders. The | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
of the NHS but the management will is worth millions of pounds. There | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
are all sorts of rows going on and one is about a potential conflict of | :38:21. | :38:28. | |
interest. The prospect of a private company taking over the management | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
of Western General Hospital is already making waves. Because of the | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
size of this hospital and because it has difficulty balancing its books, | :38:37. | :38:45. | |
criteria to become a foundation trust and that means it needs to be | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
taken over or merged with another NHL 's Hospital. Or the management | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
needs to be given to a private company. 11 companies from the | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
public and private sector have expressed an interest. We have | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
discovered that to of the NHS board members who will decide who should | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
run this hospital, contracts worth millions of pounds, have worked | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
run this hospital, contracts worth companies hoping to win back on | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
track. One is John Underwood. Cathy Headon has to make sure the board is | :39:19. | :39:26. | |
looking at the hospital's future is stakeholder's views. This kind of | :39:26. | :39:34. | |
thing should not be happening and she should stand down. We want to | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
see this interest and a lack of she should stand down. We want to | :39:37. | :39:43. | |
where people can be accused of Underwood and Mrs head and did not | :39:43. | :39:51. | |
want to be interviewed and say they have declared their interests. | :39:51. | :39:52. | |
Instead, we have been sent this have declared their interests. | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
the other organisation involved Hunt about any conflicts of interest | :39:57. | :40:20. | |
on his visit last week. We will Hunt about any conflicts of interest | :40:20. | :40:29. | |
sure that there are no conflicts of interest and we will make sure we do | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
that with transparency about the interests that people have. Under | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
the NHS reforms there is no doubt that private companies will be | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
providing NHS services more and that private companies will be | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
in the future. These campaigners will not be alone in scrutinising | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
Charlotte Leslie, let me check I have this right. We have two members | :40:53. | :41:01. | |
of the board to decide who takes over the management of Western | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
General Hospital and they have been paid for advice by organisations | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
hoping to get at work. If that's the problem? It is a huge problem and it | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
is worse than that. Cathy Headon is supposed to make sure the board | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
is worse than that. Cathy Headon is independent but she is working as a | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
consultant for one of the companies bidding. I think any normal person | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
will say that that is unacceptable and this is after a time when we | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
have seen awful things going on and this is after a time when we | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
the NHS and a lack of transparency. accountability over the last decade | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
and at the time when we need to accountability over the last decade | :41:40. | :41:41. | |
and at the time when we need to reassure the public that things | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
and at the time when we need to changing, I find it incredible that | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
transparent, everybody knows about it. Jeremy Hunt says he is happy | :41:47. | :41:54. | |
decisions, it those individuals would not be allowed to make those | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
decisions. They would be asked to leave the room. Secondly, this is | :42:01. | :42:08. | |
obviously going to undermine public confidence in the decision. Whatever | :42:08. | :42:09. | |
confidence in it. I think it is confidence in the decision. Whatever | :42:09. | :42:17. | |
massive error of judgement and I think if the individuals understood | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
how important is, they would remove themselves from that decision. | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
Thagnam Debbonaire? Charlotte Leslie says it is an error of judgement by | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
the Health Minister is waving it extraordinary that this has happened | :42:30. | :42:37. | |
and I would have a problem at work if I made a similar decision. It is | :42:37. | :42:46. | |
Charlotte, it is your party who voted through these reforms and | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
Charlotte, it is your party who is the Liberal Democrats who are | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
saying that they helped them as well. It is all very well for you to | :42:53. | :43:01. | |
sit here and say Jeremy Hunt is wrong. Your party voted for this. | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
This is a continuation of... I'm sorry, if you look at the lack of | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
accountability in the NHS which sorry, if you look at the lack of | :43:09. | :43:15. | |
killed hundreds of people... That is an outrageous thing to say. Are | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
killed hundreds of people... That is against this because you are against | :43:21. | :43:27. | |
the privatisation of the NHS? Labour used the private sector to bring | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
waiting lists down in specific circumstances. This is entirely | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
different and is opening up the entire NHS to privatisation. This is | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
different and Charlotte Leslie knows it. Don't shake your head, your | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
secretary of State for help has it. Don't shake your head, your | :43:45. | :43:51. | |
it is OK for those two people to sit Charlotte Leslie, can't MPs act | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
it is OK for those two people to sit consultants for companies question | :43:56. | :44:03. | |
declared. What is the difference? There is no doubt that there are | :44:03. | :44:11. | |
massive issues in it. There is corruption in the NHS that goes | :44:11. | :44:21. | |
massive issues in it. There is have said that I have independent | :44:21. | :44:21. | |
thoughts and I don't agree with have said that I have independent | :44:21. | :44:29. | |
secretary on this. I have called for David Nicholson to go because he has | :44:29. | :44:37. | |
connections. It is a disastrous State of affairs and there is an | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
entire cultural change we need. I think calling it party politics | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
entire cultural change we need. I unhelpful here. How would you like | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
family? Would you call it squeamish? prioritise. How would you feel? | :44:53. | :45:06. | |
family? Would you call it squeamish? heard from the Francis Cock Crow | :45:06. | :45:14. | |
review —— Francis review. The Labour leader Ed Miliband is rallying the | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
troops at the party conference this coming week. All the West Country's | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
Labour MPs are expected to be there, all two of them. I went to meet | :45:25. | :45:31. | |
Labour MPs are expected to be there, and asked him how he proposed to win | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
over the voters. We have confidence in tackling the cost of living | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
crisis. Everything from ending the Bedroom Tax to making a difference | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
to people's wages. Right across Bedroom Tax to making a difference | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
board, we will show with confidence how we can make a difference to | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
board, we will show with confidence is the biggest issues in Britain, | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
which is the cost of living problem. Wages are depressing in this country | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
and one of the reasons is Labour's open doors policy on immigration | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
which has allowed millions of people in. I think immigration is an issue | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
and we will be talking about that and how we can stop the race. Under | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
a Labour government, I will not and how we can stop the race. Under | :46:12. | :46:24. | |
4000 people are behind with rent because of the spare room policy. | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
The council is considering whether they should be evicted or not. That | :46:29. | :46:30. | |
is a matter for the council but they should be evicted or not. That | :46:30. | :46:37. | |
can say we will end the Bedroom they should be evicted or not. That | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
because I think it is wrong, and unfair, and it is not working as you | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
have showed. We will close the loopholes with things like the tax | :46:44. | :46:52. | |
cut for hedge funds. I do not want to see people evicted because of the | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
Bedroom Tax but we are serving notice that we will end this. If you | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
wanted to rent a room in Swindon, you will have to decide how an hammy | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
bedrooms you can afford. Why does benefits? We are talking about | :47:08. | :47:16. | |
people who are often disabled so we difficult circumstances. The other | :47:17. | :47:24. | |
problem is that they are not able to go anywhere. I have met the family | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
today who were hit by the Bedroom Tax. The daughter has cancer and a | :47:29. | :47:36. | |
husband and wife have disabilities. The Bedroom Tax is unfair but it | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
does not work as a policy. Councils all around the country are saying | :47:40. | :47:41. | |
this. A councillor from Swindon all around the country are saying | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
said that she would like you to all around the country are saying | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
less austere and more down to earth, perhaps more academic. You always | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
get advice as a leader and you always listen to the advice that I | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
know how I want to lead, which is to show the British people how to | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
tackle the issues they are facing. Most particularly, the cost of | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
living crisis. I think what we will see from Labour this week is how we | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
are going to do it, not just on see from Labour this week is how we | :48:14. | :48:20. | |
you going to lighten up? I am going Bedroom Tax but other issues. Are | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
you going to lighten up? I am going to do it my way. That is the most | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
important winning any job, to do it your way. Thank you very much. This | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
year's conference is being held against a backdrop of falling party | :48:32. | :48:38. | |
membership. 50 years ago millions of people paid their party subs but | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
these days, the numbers have fallen to record lows was not what has | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
these days, the numbers have fallen wrong? Joining us is a political | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
expert from Bristol University and a does it matter that people do not | :48:53. | :49:02. | |
belong to political parties any more? Yes. It is an important part | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
of getting across what society wants and is an opportunity for people to | :49:07. | :49:14. | |
participate. We have seen the rate of participation declining over | :49:14. | :49:21. | |
participate. We have seen the rate last 50 years. Give us an idea of | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
the scale of that decline. In Stroud there were over three and a half | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
thousand members in 1957. Taunton had 2000 members of the Labour Party | :49:31. | :49:38. | |
in 1957. 50 years later, there are barely 150 members in Taunton. A | :49:38. | :49:49. | |
numbers. Labour is not alone and there are similar declines in the | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
Conservatives and in the Liberal Democrats. There are exceptions | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
Conservatives and in the Liberal the rules, aren't there? The Greens | :49:57. | :49:59. | |
are doing rather well, are they the rules, aren't there? The Greens | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
Yes. We have a rapidly increasing membership and I think that is | :50:04. | :50:12. | |
participation. Joining the Green Party means you can debate our | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
policies and decide policies at Party means you can debate our | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
conference. The other parties have lost members because the elites | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
conference. The other parties have deciding on things. Letters bring in | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
the other guests and ask them. At one time, there were 3 million | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
Conservative members and now there are only 130 or something like | :50:35. | :50:42. | |
is and I think it is a change in the way people see politics. People | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
is and I think it is a change in the far more differential. As the three | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
main parties scramble onto the centre ground, people say the bar | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
less differences between them and it becomes more about identity. As | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
less differences between them and it quality of living has gone up and | :50:59. | :51:05. | |
struggling, politics becomes less a part of people's lives and people | :51:05. | :51:12. | |
are less interested in it. Labour is less for the working class now? I | :51:12. | :51:19. | |
think it has a different way of doing things. I think a lot of | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
people in the past who joins the little parties are doing things | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
people in the past who joins the different way. People are doing | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
things that embody their Labour values but they do join us when | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
things that embody their Labour are campaigning. We have Labour | :51:36. | :51:43. | |
governors, but also in Bristol West, our membership is running | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
pretty strong. This argument there is a wider participation and you | :51:49. | :51:56. | |
don't have to belong to participate. traditional mass party where people | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
are signing up and it is trying traditional mass party where people | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
run a Labour's supporter modelled. But this has not generated the | :52:07. | :52:14. | |
levels of participation they had hoped for when they launched two | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
years ago. Going back 50 years ago, people join the Young Conservatives | :52:20. | :52:28. | |
to prove points perhaps? I think people are fed up with mainstream | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
politics. They say, you are all people are fed up with mainstream | :52:30. | :52:38. | |
same and they feel out of touch people are fed up with mainstream | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
politicians. They say, why should we get involved with you? Your members | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
decide your policies but when Labour tried that, they're what all sorts | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
of problems. That was some time tried that, they're what all sorts | :52:48. | :53:00. | |
In the Labour Party, it is all about fairness for people in our country. | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
There are different ways of looking at things and we are all part of the | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
consultation over the last six months. I have no doubt it will | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
consultation over the last six conference. One of the few political | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
parties going into the conference with a swing in their step is UKIP. | :53:20. | :53:27. | |
After success in the local elections in May, they are hoping to give | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
After success in the local elections other parties a good kicking again | :53:31. | :53:31. | |
in the European elections. They other parties a good kicking again | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
not far away. Our political editor was at their conference. Here at | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
Westminster central hall, the mood has been absolutely brilliant. They | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
have picked up councils across the country, in Gloucestershire, Wilts | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
and Dorset. They have more members people have joined the party. Across | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
the country, the total is 30000 people have joined the party. Across | :53:54. | :54:02. | |
rising. That will bring them foot soldiers in elections to come and | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
that is important to the party as noticeable is the greater range | :54:06. | :54:12. | |
that is important to the party as people that have joined. There are a | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
lots more young people and that people that have joined. There are a | :54:14. | :54:20. | |
help them enormously when they are fighting the election campaign. | :54:20. | :54:28. | |
help them enormously when they are scrutiny of UKIP as they go into the | :54:28. | :54:29. | |
next elections. With me is a member of the European Parliament for the | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
south—west. Let me start on some of your policies because people say | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
that have not been many scrutiny is so far. You pledged to cut public | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
spending to 1997 levels but have spent more on public defence. That | :54:43. | :54:49. | |
is curious. We went into the last election with a manifesto that was | :54:49. | :54:58. | |
526 pages long and was longer than together. What would you cut? We | :54:58. | :55:06. | |
have made it clear that we would leave the European union. That would | :55:06. | :55:20. | |
save £60 million a day and reduce foreign aid. Verbally, EU regulation | :55:20. | :55:31. | |
costs of economy 10% of GDP. That dividend could be spent in various | :55:31. | :55:37. | |
properly have to be spent on deficit reduction. You also talked about 2 | :55:37. | :55:46. | |
million less public service workers. That was the 2010 manifesto. That | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
was nearly four years ago. That That was the 2010 manifesto. That | :55:49. | :55:58. | |
reviewed. No single other political party have yet published their | :55:58. | :56:07. | |
reviewed. No single other political politically incorrect and you revel | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
in that. One of your members use the word slut. Are you comfortable with | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
that? I am not going to criticise colleagues but I do not know what he | :56:16. | :56:22. | |
said, when he said it or what the context was. We are a party that | :56:22. | :56:28. | |
basically wants to take back our democracy back from Brussels, and | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
take back our seat on the World Trade Organisation. Lovely, thank | :56:34. | :56:40. | |
you. We will hear plenty more about UKIP in the days to come. Thank | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
you. We will hear plenty more about You were shaking your head through | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
all of that but they have done tremendously well and the European | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
elections are looking good for them. They get a lot of publicity birds | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
they do not seem to get anyone elected. The European elections | :56:58. | :57:04. | |
they do not seem to get anyone looking good. It is good news as far | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
as I'm concerned. If you're going to bounce this of UKIP then that will | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
be even better for the Green Party. If you want to explain why UKIP | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
be even better for the Green Party. doing well, I think it is about | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
be even better for the Green Party. live in this austere period of time | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
and I think they are thriving on that. Why you not doing that? We're | :57:26. | :57:33. | |
not using dirty tactics. You are worrying us about climate change and | :57:33. | :57:39. | |
the public imagination in that way the public imagination in that way | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
question might that is not what the public imagination in that way | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
are trying to do. UKIP deliberately create hate figures and a trade—off | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
against that. We are trying to look towards a more positive future and | :57:50. | :57:56. | |
that is completely different. It is nice to have you on the programme, | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
thank you. It is now time to spin through the political stories in 60 | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
Seconds. Plans are being made across the West ahead of a national fire | :58:05. | :58:11. | |
strike next week. Stations are being closed for a few hours in a row | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
strike next week. Stations are being pensions. There are more strikes | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
planned in October, this time by teachers who are angry about this | :58:19. | :58:34. | |
message is, why are you not in the classroom helping students to learn? | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
The Severn estuary has a scheme classroom helping students to learn? | :58:36. | :58:51. | |
build an energy scheme across it. First Great Western will be running | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
most of our region's trains for another three years. The government | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
is negotiating with the company another three years. The government | :58:58. | :59:04. | |
passengers are not getting a good deal. Well, that was the week just | :59:04. | :59:14. | |
teacher's protest and the threatened strikes? I understand why teachers | :59:14. | :59:16. | |
are fed up with Michael Gove. I strikes? I understand why teachers | :59:16. | :59:23. | |
governor for a school and we have building programmes that have been | :59:23. | :59:31. | |
Michael Gove is doing to education is justified. That is what parents | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
have said to me. I think Michael Gove is doing some important things. | :59:36. | :59:42. | |
The gap between rich and poor at school is unacceptable and there has | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
been a tendency to accept that if you are poor kid in a poor school | :59:47. | :59:52. | |
then you do not do subjects like physics and maths. He is turning | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
that around but for teachers, any change is difficult and I do not | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
think strike action is right. Any change is difficult. Teachers have a | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
hard time. Argue very much indeed. That is all we have time for. It has | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
flown past. A big thank you to our guests, Thagnam Debbonaire and | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
Charlotte Leslie. If you want to get in touch with your stories or ideas, | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
my youth. The halcyon days of the 2000s, when the warring Blairite and | :00:19. | :00:41. | |
Brownite tribes fought over who should run the Labour Party. Gordon | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the | :00:48. | :00:57. | |
enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell. | :01:14. | :01:20. | |
You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell. | :01:20. | :01:28. | |
in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold | :01:41. | :01:51. | |
the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been. | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage | :02:07. | :02:15. | |
I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke | :02:40. | :02:47. | |
was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this | :02:51. | :02:58. | |
morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think | :03:10. | :03:17. | |
did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely | :03:17. | :03:25. | |
undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will | :03:43. | :03:51. | |
sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence. | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper, | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner. | :04:20. | :04:28. | |
I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner. | :04:28. | :04:41. | |
the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which | :04:41. | :04:52. | |
associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government, | :04:53. | :05:02. | |
associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness | :05:03. | :05:03. | |
and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling | :05:31. | :05:39. | |
me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never | :05:39. | :05:50. | |
me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible | :06:04. | :06:11. | |
people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride. | :06:18. | :06:28. | |
What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this. | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this. | :06:50. | :07:03. | |
about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it | :07:03. | :07:13. | |
with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect | :07:18. | :07:28. | |
about some of these activities at see that there is full on both | :07:28. | :07:28. | |
sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the | :07:42. | :07:48. | |
people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation. | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation. | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to | :08:12. | :08:20. | |
had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming | :08:29. | :08:29. | |
promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming | :08:29. | :08:40. | |
before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm. | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm. | :08:48. | :08:57. | |
is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To | :08:57. | :09:04. | |
keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself, | :09:09. | :09:16. | |
particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future. | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop, | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service. | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by | :09:36. | :09:43. | |
wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole | :09:55. | :10:04. | |
bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason | :10:19. | :10:28. | |
why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I | :10:34. | :10:42. | |
reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of. | :10:47. | :10:57. | |
Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David | :10:57. | :11:04. | |
Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a | :11:04. | :11:16. | |
reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a | :11:19. | :11:26. | |
100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young | :11:28. | :11:41. | |
million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself. | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he | :11:56. | :12:06. | |
started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women | :12:06. | :12:13. | |
and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One | :12:13. | :12:21. | |
doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and | :12:34. | :12:41. | |
advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash | :12:41. | :12:52. | |
with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very | :13:05. | :13:17. | |
much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember | :13:26. | :13:27. |