10/11/2013 Sunday Politics West

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on

the war path over pay day loans your energy bill and what he calls

the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls

don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's

Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage

won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be

talking to the UKIP leader. And Harriet hates, hates, hates page

three. She wants rid of it. But what do you think? We sent Adam out with

some balls. Stay. It is good In the West ` as we remember the

fallen, who are today's enemies One terrorist group has issued a video

people from Bristol to fight a holy people from Bristol to fight a holy

row over the super sewer rumbles on. And with me, fresh from their

success at yesterday's Star Wars auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan

Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick

Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. First, the talks with Iran in

Geneva. They ended last night without agreement despite hopes of a

breakthrough. America and its allies didn't think Iran was prepared to go

far enough to freeze its nuclear programme. But some progress has

been made and there's to be another meeting in ten days' time, though at

a lower level. The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had this

to say a little earlier. On the question of, or will it happen in

the next few weeks? There is a good chance of that. We will be trying

again on 20th, 21st of November and negotiators will be trying again. We

will keep an enormous amount of energy and persistence behind

solving this. Will that be a deal which will please everyone? No, it

will not. Compromises will need to be made. I had discussions with

Israeli ministers yesterday and put the case for the kind of deal we are

looking the case for the kind of deal we are

interests of the whole world, including

interests of the whole world, the world, to reach a diplomatic

agreement we can be confident in in this issue. This otherwise will

threaten the world with nuclear proliferation and conflict in the

future. The interesting thing about this is that it seems

future. The interesting thing about prepared to go far enough over the

Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor it is building. The people who took

the toughest line - the French. France has always had a pretty tough

line on Iran. They see it as a disruptive influence in Lebanon I

am reasonably optimistic a deal will be done later this month when the

talks reconvene. Western economic sanctions have had such an impact on

Iran domestic league. They have pushed inflation up to 40%.

Dashes-macro domestically. The new president had a campaign pledge

saying, I will deal with sanctions. I actually think, by the end of this

year, we will see progress in these talks. Should we be optimistic? The

next round of talks will be at official level. The place to watch

will be Israel. The language which has been coming out of there is

still incredibly angry, incredibly defensive. They do not want a deal

at all. Presumably John Kerry has to go away and tried to get Israel to

be quiet about it, even if they cannot be happy about it. They

cannot agree to a deal which allows the Iraq reactor with plutonium

heavy water. You do not need that with a peaceful nuclear power

programme will stop that is why the Israelis are so nervous. If there is

an international deal, Israel could still bomb that but it would be

impossible. The French tactics are interesting. It says the French

blocked it in part because they are trying to carry favour with Israel

but also the Gulf Arab states, who are really nervous about and

Iranians nuclear capability. Who is that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a

story saying that Pakistan is prepared to provide them with

nuclear weapons. You are right about Saudi Arabia. They are much more

against this deal than Israel. Who is Herman van Rompuy's favourite

MEP? It is probably not Nigel Farage. He plummeted to the bottom

of the EU president's Christmas card list after comparing him to a bank

clerk with the charisma of a damp rag. And he's been at it again this

week. Have a look. Today is November the 5th, a big celebration festival

day in England. That was an attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament

with dynamite and destroy the Constitution. You have taken the

Dahl, technocratic approach to all of these things. What you and your

colleagues save time and again you talk about initiatives and what you

are going to do about unemployment. The reality is nothing in this union

is getting better. The accounts have not been signed off for 18 years. I

am now told it is 19 and you are doing your best to tone down any

criticism. Whatever growth figures you may have, they are anaemic.

Youth unemployment in the Mediterranean is over 50% in several

states. You will notice there is a rise in opposition dashed real

opposition. Much of it ugly opposition, not stuff that I would

want to link hands with. And Nigel Farage joins me now. Let me put to

you what the editor of the Sun had to say. He says, UKIP will peak at

the European election and then it will begin to get marginalised as we

get closer to 2015 because there is now that clear blue water between

Labour and the Tories. What do you say to that? There may be layered

blue water on energy pricing but on Eastern Europe, there is no

difference at all. When Ed Miliband offers the referendum to match

Cameron, even that argument on Europe will be gone. The one thing

that will keep UKIP strong, heading towards 2015, is if people think in

some constituencies we can win. I cannot sit here right now and say

that will be the case. If we get over the hurdle of the European

elections clearly, I think there will be grounds to say that UKIP can

win seats in Westminster. You are going to run? Without a shadow of a

doubt. I do not know which constituency. The welcome I got in

Edinburgh was not that friendly Edinburgh is not everything in

Scotland. I think we have a realistic chance of winning those

elections. If we do that, we will have the momentum behind us. You

might be the biggest party after the May elections. The National front is

likely to do very well in France as well. They have won the crucial

by-election in the South of France. Have you talked about joining full

season in Parliament? The leader has tried to take the movement into a

different direction than her father. The man she beat, to become leader,

actually attended the BNP conference. The problem she has with

her party and we have with her party is that anti-Semitism is too deep

and we will not be doing a deal with the French national government. You

can guarantee you will not be joining such groups. I can guarantee

that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's accept that the pro-Europeans

exaggerate the loss of jobs that would follow the departure of

Britain from the UK. Is there no risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk

whatsoever. There is no risk at all. There have been some weak and lazy

arguments put around about this We will go on doing business - go on

doing trade with Europe. We will have increased opportunities to do

trade deals with the rest of the world and they will create jobs The

head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi and CBI many other voices in British

business, when they all expressed concern about the potential loss of

jobs and incoming investment, we should just ignore them. With

Nissan, the BBC News is making this a huge story. The boss did not say

what was reported. He said there was a potential danger to his future

investment. They have already made the investments. They have built the

plant in Sunderland, which they say is operating well. We should be

careful of what bosses of big businesses say. This man said they

may have two leaves Sunderland if we did not join the euro. I do not take

that seriously. As for the CBI, they wanted us to join the euro and now

they do not. Even within the CBI, there is a significant minority

saying, we do not agree with what the CBI director-general is saying.

The former boss of the organisation is saying we need a referendum and

we need a referendum soon. It depends on the renegotiation. There

is not the uniformity. What we are beginning to see in the world, is,

manufacturing and small businesses are a lot more voices saying, the

costs of membership outweigh any potential benefit. If you look at

the polls, if Mr Cameron does repatriate some powers and he joins

with Labour, the Lib Dems, the Nationalists in Scotland and Wales,

most of business, all of the unions to say we should stay in, you are

going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75, the circumstances were exactly the

same. Mr Wilson promised a renegotiation and he got very

little. The establishment gathered around him and they voted for us to

stay in. I do not think that will happen now. The scales have fallen.

We do not want to be governed by Herman Van Rompuy and these people.

These people are Eurosceptic but they do not seem to feel strongly

enough about it that they are going to defy all the major parties they

vote for, companies that employ them, unions they are members of. I

am absolutely confident there will be a lot voices in business saying,

we need to take this opportunity to break free, give ourselves a chance

of a low regulation lowball trader. -- global trade. In 1970 53 small

publications said to vote yes. I am not contemplating losing. The most

important thing is to get the referendum. If UKIP is not strong,

there will not be a referendum. Earlier in the year, your party

issued a leaflet about the remaining sample parents being able to come to

this country. The EU will allow 29 million Bulgarians and remaining is

to come to the UK. That is technically correct but we both know

that is not the case. It is an open door to these people. Why take the

risk? By make out there are 29 million people? I stand by that

verdict. It is an open door. 29 million are not going to come. They

can if they want. Also 29 million people from France can come. After

these countries have joined, we will do another leaflet saying that Mr

Cameron wants to open the door to 70 million people from Turkey. That is

scaremongering. I would not say that. We have a million young

British workers between 16 and 4 without work. A lot of them want

work and we do not need another massive oversupply in the unskilled

labour market. Why did you have such a bad time on question Time this

week? The folk that did not buy your anti-immigration stick. Do you think

that group of people in the room was representative of the voters of

Boston? What would make you think it was unrepresentative? When the

county council elections took place this year in Boston, of the seven

seats, UKIP won five and almost won the other two. I don't think that

audience reflected that, but that doesn't matter. How an audience is

put together, how a panel is put together, on one programme, it

doesn't mean much at all. It shows that your anti-immigrant measure

doesn't fly as easily as you hoped it would? The opinion polls which

will be launched on Monday that we are conducting and nearing

completion, they show two things. Firstly, an astonishing number of

people who think it's irresponsible and wrong to open the doer to

Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and crucially, a number of people whose

vote in the European elections and subsequent general elections may be

determined by the immigration issues. This does matter. It would

be the perfect run group the European elections in May for you if

a lot of Bulgarians and remainians flooded in. You would like that to

happen? I think it will happen. Whether I like it or not, it will

happen. You think it will be good for you, it will stir things up If

you say to people in poor countries, you can come here, get a job, have a

safety net of a benefits system claim child allowance for your kids

in Bucharest, people will come You are ready with the arguments

already? You will be disappointed if only ten turn up? Whether lots come

or not we should. Taking the risk and yes, we are going to make it a

major issue in the European election. Let's leave it there.

Thank you very much, Nigel Farage. The summer of 2013 was not good for

Ed Miliband, with questions over his leadership, low ratings and

complaints about no policies. He bounced back with a vengeance at the

Labour Conference in September, delivering a speech which this week

won the spectator political speech of the year aword. In that speech he

focussed on the cost-of-living and promised a temporary freeze on

energy prices. Even said this. The next election isn't just going to be

about policy. It's going to be about how we lead and the character we

show. I've got a message for the Tories today. If they want to have a

debate, about leadership and character, be my guest And if you

want to know the difference between me and David Cameron, here is an

easy way to remember it. When it was Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the

side of Murdoch. When it was the tobacco lobby versus the cancer

charities, he took the side of the tobacco lobby. When the millionaires

wanted a tax cut as people pay the bedroom tax, he took the side of the

millionaires. A come to think of it, here is an easier way to remember

it. David Cameron was a Prime Minister who introduced the bedroom

tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who repeals the bedroom tax There we go,

that will go down with the party faithful on Tuesday. There will be a

debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman,

joints me now. Let's begin with the bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy.

Nearly 11% of people who've come off Housing Benefits all together after

their spare room subsidy was stopped, isn't that proof that

reform was necessary? No. I think that the whole way that the bet room

tax has been attempted to be justified is completely wrong. What

it's said is that it will actually help take people off the waiting

lists by putting them into homes that have been vacated by people

who've downsized by being incentivised by the bedroom tax so

basically if you are a council tenant or Housing Association tenant

in a property with spare bedrooms, then because the penalty is imposed,

you will move to a smaller property. That is the justification for it.

But actually, something like 96 of the people who're going to be hit by

the bedroom tax, there isn't a smaller property for them to move

into. I understand that. Therefore they are, like the people in my

constituency, if they have got one spare bedroom, they are hit by 700

a year extra to pay and that is completely unfair As a consequence

of people losing the subsidy for their spare room, they have decided

to go out and get work and not depend on Housing Benefit at all?

11% of them. What's wrong with that? Well, they are going to review the

way 2 the bedroom tax is working. What is wrong with that? But that's

not working. That's the result of Freedom of Information, 141 councils

provided the figures, 25,000 who've come off benefits, of the 233,0 0

affected, it's about 11%. These people were clearly able to get a

job was having the Housing Benefit in the first place? But of course

the people who're on the benefits who're not in work are always

looking for work and many of them will find work which is a good

thing, but for those who don't find work, or who find work where it s

low-paid and need help with their rent, it's wrong to penalise them on

the basis of the fact that their family might have grown up and moved

away and so you have either got to move out of your home, away from

your family and your neighbourhood, or you've got to stay where you are

and, despite the fact that you are low-paid or unemployed, you have got

to find an extra ?700 a year because of your rent. So it's very unfair

The Government that was commissioning independent research

on the impact of this work change and welfare policy, particularly on

the impact on the most vulnerable, some of which you have been talking

about there, shouldn't they have waited until you have got the

independent research, that independent investigation before

determining your policy? No. In fact, the Government should have

waited until they'd have done their independent research before they

bought into effect something and imposed it on people in a way which

is really unfair. They could have known. Why didn't you wait? What

they could have done is, they could have asked councils, are people

going to be able to Manifest into smaller homes if we impose the

bedroom tax and the answer from councils and Housing Associations

would have been no, they can't move into smaller homes because which

haven't got them there. They should have done the evaluation before they

introduced the policy. We are absolutely clear and you can see the

evidence, people are falling into rent arrears. Many people, it's a

terrifying thing to find that you can't pay your rent, and some of the

people go to payday loan companies to get loans to pay their rent. It

is very, very unfair. The justification for it, which is

people will move, is completely bogus. There aren't places for them

to go. On the wider issue of welfare reform, a call for the TUC showed

that voters support the Government's welfare reforms, including a

majority of Labour voters. Why are you so out of touch on welfare

issues, even with your own supporters? Nobody wants to see

people who could be in a job actually living at the taxpayers'

expense. That's why we have said that we'll introduce a compulsory

jobs guarantee, so that if you are a young person who's been unemployed

for a year, you will have to take a job absolutely have to take a job,

and if you have been unemployed as somebody over 25, there'll be a

compulsory thing after two years of unemployment. So if you have been on

welfare two years? So the main issue about the welfare bill actually is

people who're in retirement who need support. We have said for the

richest pensioners, they shouldn't have to pay their winter fuel

allowance. My point wasn't abouts the sub stance, it's about how you

don't reflect public opinion -- substance. The Parliamentary aid

said the political backlog of benefits and social security is "not

yet one that we have won. Labour must accept that they are not

convincing on these matters,". Well, redo have to convince people and

explain the policies we have got and the view we take. So, for example,

for pensioners, who're well off we are saying they don't need the

Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me saying to you and us saying to

people in this country, we do think that there should be that

tightening. For young people, who've been unemployed, they should be

offered jobs but they've got to take them. So yes, we have to make our

case. OK. The energy freeze which we showed there, on the speech, as

popular. The living wage proseles have been going down well as well.

Why is Labour's lead oaf the Conservatives being cut to 6% in the

latest polls? Ed Miliband's own personal approval rating's gotten

worse. Why is that? I'm not going to disdues ins and outs of weekly

opinion polls with you or anybody else because I'm not a political

commentator, but let me say to you the facts of what's happened since

Ed Miliband's been leader of the Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New

Labour councillors, all of those... But you're... All those who've won

their seats against the Conservatives or the Liberal

Democrats and no, Andrew you don't always get that in opposition. In

1997 after Tony Blair was elected, the Tories carried on losing council

seats. Exceptional circumstances and these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in

the polls. You were six. The economy grew at an annual rate of 3% in the

third quarter just gone. Everybody, private and public forecasters now

saying that Britain in this coming year will grow faster than France,

Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow faster. Your poll ratings are

average when the economy was flatlining, what happens to them

when the economy starts to grow Well, I've just said to you, I'm not

a political commentator or a pundit on opinion polls. We are putting

policies forward and we are holding the Government to account for what

they are doing and we think that what they did opt economy pulled the

plugs from the economy, delayed the recovery, made it stagnate and we

have had three years lost growth. I understand that, but it's now

starting to grow. Indeed. If you are no political commentator, let me ask

you this, you anticipated the growth, so you switched your line to

no growth to this is growth and living standards are rising. If the

economy does grow up towards 3% next year, I would suggest that living

standards probably will start to rise with that amount of growth

What do you do then? We have not switched our line because the

economy started to grow. All the way along, we said the economy will

recover, but it's been delayed and we have had stagnation for far too

long because of the economic policies. We have been absolutely

right to understand the concerns people have and recognise that they

are struggling with the cost-of-living. Sure. And we are

right to do that. What kind of living standards stuck to rise next

year? -- start to rise next year. I hope they will. For 40 months of

David Cameron's Prime Ministership, for 39 of those, wages have risen

slower than prices, so people are worse off. I understand that. You

will know that the broader measurement, real household

disposable income doesn't show that decline because it takes everything

into account. Going around the country, people feel it. They say

where's the recovery for me. Living standards now start to rise? If that

happens, what is your next line There is a set of arguments about

living standards, the National Health Service, about the problems

that there is in A, which caused -- are caused by the organisation. I

can put forward other lines. All right. Let me ask you one other

question If no newspapers have signed up to the Government-backed

Labour-backed Royal Charter on press regular lace by 2015 and it looks

like the way things are going none will have, if you are in power, will

a Labour Government legislate to make them? They don't have to sign

up to the Royal Charter, that's not the system. What the Royal Charter

does is create a recogniser and basically says it's for the

newspapers to set up their own regulator. They are doing that. My

question is... Let me finish. If they decide to have nothing to do

with the Royal Charter that was decided in Miliband's office in the

wee small hours, will you pass legislation to make them? The

newspapers are currently setting up what they call... I know that,

Harriet Harman. Just let me finish. OK. Because the newspapers are

setting up the independent Press Standards Organisation. Right. If it

is independent, as they say it is, then the recogniser will simply say,

we recognise that this is independent and the whole point is

that, in the past when there's been skaen deals a tend press have really

turned people's lives upside down and the press have said OK we'll

sort things out, leave it to us then they have sorted things out but

a few years later they have slipped back, all this recogniser will do is

check it once every three years and say yes, you have got an independent

system and it's remained independent and therefore that is the guarantee

things won't slip back. Very interesting. Thank you for that

That's really interesting that if they get their act right, you won't

force the alternative on them. We want the system as set forward by

Leveson which is not statute and direct regulation. I want to stick

with the press because I want to ask, is this a British institution

or an out-of-date image for a by gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been

dividing the nation since it first appeared way back in 1970. That s 43

years ago. Harriet Harman's called for it to be removed, so we sent

Adam out to ask whether the topless photographs should stay or go. We

have asked people if page three should stay or go. Page three. What

do you think? Nothing wrong with it at all. I think it is cheap and

exploits women. It is a family newspaper. Should it stay or go Go.

I will look like the bad guy. It should go. You have changed your

mind. It is free choice. Girls do not have to be photographed. Old men

get the paper just for that. Know when your age does that? Not really.

Dashes-macro know what your age Page three girls, should they stay

or go? I am not bothered. There are other ways of getting noticed. Page

three of the Sun newspaper every day, there is a woman with no top

on. We got rid of that about 40 years ago in Australia. I am not in

favour of censorship. It has been long enough. It can stay there. What

is wrong with it? We want to encourage children to read the

newspapers. I do not want my children to look at that. It is

degrading. Do you think we will see the day when they get rid of it

Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can turn this into some kind of a

shelter. It is tipping it down. I think the council should do

something about their car parks Mother nature, the human body. It

should stay. Is some people like it, that is fine. I have nothing against

it. You know what has surprised me, lots of women saying it should stay.

Maybe they are seeing it as empowering. As I have a baby

daughter in there, I am happy to see it go. Imagine my grandad opening up

his paper and they're being my bats! It should go. There is nothing wrong

with it. He wants it to go. What about people who think that page

three should be banned? Idiots. Do you know a girl called Lacey, aged

22, from Bedford? Good luck to her. I do not know her as a person that I

have heard she is nice. What about her decision to be on page three?

Nothing to lose. Do you think she has made Bedford proud? That is not

hard. What have we learned? More people want page three to stay down

for it to go. Most people do not really seem to care, do they? You

have heard a range of views. I am not arguing it should be banned I

have not argued for it to be banned but I have disapproved of it since

the 1970s. You do not think it should be banned? I do not think

there should be dictating content but I do think, if you arrive from

outer space in this country in 21st-century Britain, and asked

yourself what was the role of women in society... To stand in their

knickers and nothing else, I think women have more to aspire to than to

be able to take their clothes off in public. The sun no longer has the

circulation, or the political importance, that it had in the 980s

when page three was at its height. Aren't people just voting with their

feet anyway? The market is sorting this out. Half the number of people

buy it now than they did 20 years ago. Until the time the sun does not

have page three any more, I am entitled to my view that it is

outdated and wrong. I am happy to establish that you do not want to

ban it. What should happen? Should people boycott the paper? I have

never implied or said it should be banned. I have always been

forthright. Should people boycott the paper? I have not called for a

boycott. The women's movement, of which I am part, and this is not

about politicians censoring the press. I am part of the movement

which says women can do better than taking off their clothes and being

in their knickers in the newspapers. Why don't you do something about it?

I am doing something about it by saying it is outdated. I am not

doing anything more about it. Should people buy the paper as long as

there is a page three? Would you like to say to viewers, as long as

page three is in the sand, you should not buy it? Dashes-macro be

Son. I am saying, wake up to what the role of women in society should

be, which is more than page three. If they changed it in Australia

which is where Rupert Murdoch came from, why can they not change it in

this country? You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just

over 20 minutes... I'll be talking to man leading the

Thank you and welcome to the part of the programme that is just for us

here in the West. Coming up today, has a Somali terrorist organisation

recruited members from the West In this propaganda video, Al`Shabab, a

group related to Al`Qaeda, claims to have recruited fighters from

Bristol. The police tell us this is untrue but one local councillor

still has some concerns. We will be discussing cameras and much more

with our guest today, Sophy Gardner from Gloucester and the conservative

from Yeovil, Marcus Fysh. But first, across the nation,

millions have been reflecting on the sacrifice of service men and women

who have given their lives for this country. Remembrance Sunday is away

is a poignant today and next year marks the 100th anniversary of the

first World War `` First World War. We have been asking local people why

they think poppies are still important.

Today, I chose to wear one because I thought I would make some small

contribution to soldiers whom a lot of effort in Afghanistan and I

wanted to give some formal recognition to them.

I might not support war but I do support the decent treatment of

those who have fought for their country, whether I think their cause

is right or wrong. I'm supporting a really good cause and I think

everyone should remember. It is what we do. It is a matter of respect for

people and the sacrifices they make for their country. And joining me

now is the belch MP Doctor Andrew Merson, who is in charge of the

celebrations for the members of the 100th anniversary of the First World

War. Why are we marking the beginning of the war rather than its

end? The first thing to say that this is a commemoration, it is in no

way a celebration. And during this four`year period, we will be doing

everything we can to encourage people to thing about the causes,

conduct and consequences of this extraordinary moment in our history

which, whether we realise it on a day`to`day basis or not, really does

influence everything that relates to our modern world. It is incredibly

important. It is right we do what we can to explore it in all of its

manifestations and that is what the centenary will be about. Why the

beginning and not the end? It is an integral part of the whole story and

there is international agreement that this event is so huge that we

have to explore it in its entirety. But the Prime Minister once, in his

words, a commemoration that like the diamond to believe says something

about who we are as a people. That was a bit of a knees up. This will

be very different. It needs to be a commemoration and not a celebration.

The Prime Minister is utterly clear about that. This is a commemoration

and its tone will be profoundly different. So it is not cheering

crowds in the mouth Mall? I think foremost amongst those

countries are the Germans, of course. The Germans also want the

European Union recognised for bringing Europe together, to make

sure another conflict like that would be unthinkable. Do you go

along with that? A celebration of Europe? I think different countries

will approach this in a different way and they will have their own

stories and narratives. I don't think the European `` the part that

the European Union has played in the past decade will be a prominent part

of our commemoration but of course it is open to countries like Germany

and others to approach this in a way that they think best fits their

narrative. Was it a just war? That is a vexed question. I hope it will

be debated over the four`year period. What I'm clear about is that

if IM in the position of administering the government that

took the country to war at the time, I would have made the same decision

based on the information available to me. We debated some of those

issues and I think there was a lot of consensus found. While I have you

here, is it right that 16 year roles should be allowed to join the Army?

The Army is breaking on training young people and when they join the

Army, they go through an extensive period of training and cannot enter

a combat role until they achieve their majority, so that has been the

case for a while and I think most people would accept that as being

reasonable. Thank you for joining us. We will be seeing a lot of you

over the next 12 months. Let us turn to our guests. Sophy,

you were a Wing Commander. Is the government getting the tone of these

events right? It is hard to say there is a lot to come out. The most

important thing that it is solemnly commemorated. I was at the Cenotaph

in 2008 when it was the 90th anniversary of the end of the first

World War with the three last surviving soldiers of the First

World War. Getting the tone right is what we are seeking to achieve

rather than anything veering towards the Diamond Jubilee. It is important

we are working with the German government on this. We built on the

bomber command Memorial with them and so there is an inscription to

all people who died. Will they come a time when we actually draw a line

under the First World War and say this is now ancient history? I

really don't because I think it is 16 the important that we do remember

`` extremely important and that we do remember that it was a war that

was completely different in character and nature than to

anything we had seen before and the scale of the losses was so great

that it truly traumatised both nations in very different ways.

Thank you. We have to move on. Back in 1914, we knew who the enemy was.

Today, it is not so clear. Here in the West, police have been examining

a video released by the terrorist group Al`Shabab who have linked to

Al`Qaeda. It follows claims they recruited members for Bristol for

the local holy war. Al`Shabab is a terrorist

organisation with links to Al`Qaeda. In this propaganda video, probably

filmed in Somalia, where the group originates, their messages aimed at

Britain. We are accompanied by brothers from London, Liverpool

Bristol and Cardiff. The group are believed to be responsible for the

deaths of at least 67 people, some of whom were British, when militants

stormed this night robe each shopping centre on the 21st of

September. `` Nairobi. Al`Shabab claims they have recruited members

from the streets of Bristol. Nevertheless, this propaganda video

has raised concerns in the community. This woman is the first

Somali born councillor in Britain. She worked closely with the growing

community. There are now thought to be over 20,000 Somalis living in the

city. As austerity continues to bite and communities and families are

poorer, young men in particular are disenfranchised and shut up from

society. What are the chances of them being radicalised? What are the

chances of someone with negative intentions coming along and

providing them with an outlet for that? Officers from Avon and

Somerset have examined the video. Basic amenity teams work closely

with local mosques and community leaders in the city. They were

tipped off by the community about Andrew Ibrahim, a young Muslim

convert, convicted of planning a terrorist bomb attack in Bristol in

2009. We are aware of the video and we know that Bristol was mentioned

among lots of other cities in Britain. Whilst we are never

complacent, we are relaxed about the situation in Bristol. We have

excellent committee relations with the communities in Bristol and we

have not done any tension from the video and we are confident that we

never would. Working with the community is an ethos shed at the

school, where many of the local Somali children are pupils. Here we

have 60 countries of origin and some of them are from very `` very Ramon

parts of Africa. We don't allow any separation or any sense of exclusion

to come in, to allow separation to creep in. We spent a lot of money on

blazers so they feel part of the community. It is a modern cancer,

poverty, and so we have adapted to tackle that. There are students who

claim for free school meals and that has increased in the last four

years. With concerns about children falling into poverty, there are

concerns they could become radicalised. There is no evidence

that people have fallen for this Al`Shabab propaganda but the British

authorities are keeping a close aye on things.

Letters pick up on that. Is there a concern that poverty could be a

driving force for radicalisation? I think there is or is a risk and we

as a society need to make sure that nobody forced through the cracks and

that we notice when somebody is honourable to radicalisation of any

kind. I think it is very important that we do have the strong

leadership in the country and the resources for our security forces

for our police to do their job and I think they have those tools at the

moment. We also need to make sure that all of our social services are

looking at these things as well Are we winning the ideological war? The

ideological war in the sense... I don't think there is an ideological

war in the sense that terrorism for most people is just utterly wrong

and file on any side and so I am unhappy with the term war on terror.

I was in America on the day of 11 because I conceded originally were

heading and I didn't like it. Now, they are doing great work on the

local level in Bristol and she is the right person to be doing that

work. Around the country, there is good work being done on

radicalisation and online activity. We are heading in the right

direction. Some people would think why did we allow Sony people to come

to this country who do not share our values? `` so many people. It is

vital that we do not let immigration cloud our view on criminals. That is

not the same as all people who are immigrants or emigrants out of this

country. We should be very careful, it is not the same as being as them.

My set mother is a muslin. I have no problem with that. `` my stepmother

is a Muslim. The police are monitoring many conversations

online. Is that justified? One of the reasons we are able to go about

our daily lives in the way we have done for many decades in a freeway

in this country is because we have is we have a strong outer ring, so

we have a capable militarily, we have capable security services. Is

that worth the price of having people snooping? I think it is. It

is a very bottom part about information set. We need to be

careful before we allow our techniques to become known to the

people who would hurt us and I think that is a bit of a risk. We have to

leave it there because we need to talk about money. With council is

working on their budgets, one area now being lined up for cuts is

children centres. Swindon is slicing hundreds of thousands from what it

spends about Somerset proposes changes to dozens of centres. The

first big flash point could come on Wednesday in Bath, over a planned ?2

million cut. It is stories time at Parkside is

children centre. `` Parkside Children's Centre. Many feel that

the wolf is at the door for these centres. They want to cut their

funding by the 40%. It has sparked a big risk campaign by their

opponents. These children's centres provide a huge range of activities

that provide universal services for parents and parents who are in

particular need. If there is a 2.3 million cut, 50% of most of the

services will go because 50% of staff will be cut. It has alarmed

Betty Williams, she got help after suffering postnatal depression. To

get that support and even tips to deal with things going on in my

life... So impressed was sheep by the Russ Doctor consider that she ``

Radstock to centre. If it was cut, it would be devastating to some

parents. The council hope that all will stay open with help from

volunteers and other organisations. their spending will be targeted at

the most needy. There are other authorities that are cutting

children's centres and what we are seeking to do is to retain all of

our centres and make them be as effective and efficient as possible.

The councils will face protests when they make their controversial

decision. It is not just down to who is decided by the Cabinet. Enough

people signed a petition that it will be debated at a council

meeting. The future of these controversial changes is far from

certain. Back in Radstock, Betty Williams is enjoying being a parent.

She was to make sure others get the same help. I know what it was like

before we had the centres, so we don't want that for them because

that is quite a scary prospect. And I know that if these cuts come

through, it will be targeted but I don't think that is good enough

Every child should get the support. For many councils, the easy cuts

have been made. Now, the next generation will start to feel the

effects of the age of austerities Dine Romero joins us in the studio.

We saw you in the film for sub why are you making this cut? Overall,

although we are quite wealthy, we are faced with cuts that are

unprecedented since World War II. We have had to take a ?30 million cut

over the next two years in order to balance our books. We'd have thought

that children's services would have been towards the bottom of the list

will stop. We asked that the last Budget meeting for our scrutiny

panel to go away and look at what services were needed and what was

vital for the well`being of our young people and our families within

a community. And these are not vital? They are vital. We are not

closing any of the centres. But you have reduced their Budget by 40 ? We

have reduced our Budget but we are looking at trying to create a new

model that we will be working with our partners and volunteer groups in

order to deliver these vital services. Let us bring in our other

guests. Are these justified? Cuts to children's services are always

worrying. It is happening across the country. In Swindon, there have been

a lot of campaigns will stop the early years are vital. We are

looking at local government and a tax on those services for young

people. So Labour councillors would not cut? We cannot say what we would

do in future but just to say we have got a costed proposal to improve

hours of childcare. Let us talk about the politics of it. The Lib

Dems want to do it in Bath and the Tories are opposing it? It is

Labour. The Tories looked at what could be done without children

services. So they are not opposing it? They have worked with us on it.

They have asked for a rethink, as I understand. What were doing in

Somerset is coming up with ways of producing a new model for delivering

children centres. So you have asked for a rethink in some areas but in

Somerset you want a cut? We will invest more money in front line

services, we will cut back on management and administration costs

which Ashley take up half of our Budget there. This is money we have

to save but we need to make our services more flexible. How do you

make services better with less money? You have to be creative, you

have to look at who else is out there that has local knowledge, who

else can help you in delivering the services. You are looking at

volunteer groups, charities, all sorts of other partners and one of

the big benefits from other partners is they can actually drawn funds

that as a council we are not able to do. In a word, will you climb down

all this go ahead? At the moment, it is a proposal, a plan, we need to

look at it and see how it can be delivered. That will form the

discussion on Wednesday and the overall decision does not happen

until February, at our next Budget. Thank you for coming in. Time for

our round`up in six T seconds. `` 60 seconds.

Three people died on to accidents on the outskirts of Gloucester. The

leader of Gloucestershire County Council has written to the Transport

Secretary demanding action. We need to stop this being not only a

bottleneck but also a really dangerous stretch of road.

Firefighters across the West went on strike again as part of a national

row over changes to pensions. The government is playing to increase

the retirement age from 55 to 6 . The chief Gaza border they then and

Somerset police says that keenly Felix need to be rebuilt following

the death of one man. They described his murder in Bristol as an horrific

incident. The IPCC are investigating the police's investigation.

A court has ruled that Somerset cows or acted illegally it cut youth

services. Judges at the Court of Appeal said the council failed to

insult young people adequately and when they voted through the cuts

last year. That was the week just gone. Let us

pick up quickly on the judicial reviews that seem to be going into

anything. Are there too many now? There are a lot of them but it is

important that the principle of being able to account for the

sessions and check they are legal issues the vital. The Prime Minister

said they were a growing industry, didn't he? It is important they are

based on something real and I think the changes that the prime and is

the once I just to limit some of the timescales in it. It is important, I

agree. That is all we have time for. Thank you to Sophy Gardner and

Marcus Fysh for joining us. We are back next week. See you then, now

more equipment so they can see cyclists. Back to you, Andrew.

We learned this week that no more warships will be built at

Portsmouth, the home of the Royal Navy since the days of the Mary Rose

and Francis Drake. But has the city been sacrificed to save jobs on the

Clyde in Scotland? Is England the loser in an effort to keep the

United Kingdom intact? Let's speak to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign

for an English Parliament. Is England the loser in this attempt to

doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English

Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to

stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best

outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year?

We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is

an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the

people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for

independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be

dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without

true representation. The union continues but it continues without

Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional

position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional

position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We

want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained

or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant.

Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If

that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes,

it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the

union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by

England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament,

wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny

list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to

the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very

concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched

British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable

situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with

Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about

trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile

situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation

separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and

Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I

want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were

sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to

remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly.

Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become

a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England

to have their representation - representation that looks at

policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern

Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way

forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system

might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you

want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is

implement the process is to get their representation for England. I

would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way

to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education.

Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the

British government is trying desperately to save the union by

giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this

business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been

pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the

union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a

disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a

minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow

its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to

admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be

dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a

Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a

killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in

this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two.

And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial

area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has

backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in

Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English

nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist

in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed

to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to

win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to

imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more

autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David

Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any

vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde,

you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is

economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the

United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this

government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of

being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case

of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave

That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you

like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you

happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last

week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He

said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So,

what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll

hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I

have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it?

Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used

drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years

ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few

times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I

tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around

you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that

get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession

by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once

smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that

she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about

them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not

deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant

to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat

his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a

generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went

through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables

and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely

honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy

is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was

saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet

Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot,

you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you

cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing

and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is

enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair

or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be

mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There

was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He

was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the

line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him.

Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will

surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes

on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those

who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised.

The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 ,

early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages

will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not

be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this

trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very

careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a

certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled

before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory

strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement

or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates.

-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions

about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions.

They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be

surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it

is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be

cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two

at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am.

Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.