08/12/2013 Sunday Politics West


08/12/2013

Andrew Neil and David Garmston with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 08/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

The morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. First, some Sunday

:00:39.:00:45.

morning cheer, if you are an MP that is. You are set to get an 1%

:00:46.:00:49.

pay rise. The Chancellor has gone from zero to hero for some, who

:00:50.:00:55.

credit him for turning the economy around. We will be taking a fine

:00:56.:01:00.

tooth comb to his Autumn Statement. Should this man get a pay rise?

:01:01.:01:06.

Complete denial about the central facts... And 11% pay rise for Ed

:01:07.:01:12.

Balls? He was certainly working hard to be heard last Thursday. We will

:01:13.:01:16.

be reviewing his performance. What about this man? We will be joined by

:01:17.:01:25.

His wife does the shopping so just how in touch with high street

:01:26.:01:32.

had on the capital, its politics and those who met him.

:01:33.:01:43.

With me, three scruffy eternal students. They would celebrate if

:01:44.:01:50.

they achieved a C+. But they are all we could afford and there will be no

:01:51.:01:53.

pay rise for them. They will be glued to an electronic device

:01:54.:01:56.

throughout the programme and if we are lucky they might stop there

:01:57.:02:02.

internet shopping and tweet something intelligent. But don't

:02:03.:02:06.

hold your breath. Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Last

:02:07.:02:11.

week, storms were battering Britain, the East Coast was hit by the worst

:02:12.:02:14.

tidal surge in more than a century, thousands of people had to be

:02:15.:02:18.

evacuated and Nelson Mandela died. The downed the news agenda was the

:02:19.:02:23.

small matter of George Osborne's Autumn Statement. His giveaways his

:02:24.:02:29.

takeaways and his first opportunity to announce some economic cheer

:02:30.:02:37.

It might be winter outside, but in the studios it is awesome. Autumn

:02:38.:02:49.

Statement time. -- autumn. This is a moment of TV history. Normally when

:02:50.:02:52.

the Chancellor delivers these statements, he has to say the

:02:53.:02:55.

economy is actually a lot worse than everyone predicted. This time, he

:02:56.:03:00.

can stand up and say the economy is better than everybody predicted A

:03:01.:03:01.

lot better. Britain is currently growing faster

:03:02.:03:10.

than any other major advanced economy. Faster than France, which

:03:11.:03:17.

is contracting, faster than Germany, faster even than America. At this

:03:18.:03:23.

Autumn Statement last year, there were repeated predictions that

:03:24.:03:27.

borrowing would go up. Instead, borrowing is down, and down

:03:28.:03:31.

significantly more than forecast. But George Osborne said the good

:03:32.:03:34.

numbers still mean more tough decisions. We will not give up in

:03:35.:03:40.

giving in our country's debts. We will not spend the money from lower

:03:41.:03:44.

borrowing. We will not squander the harder and games of the British

:03:45.:03:52.

people. -- hard earned gains. In other news, further cuts to

:03:53.:03:55.

government departments. The state pension age will increase in the

:03:56.:04:01.

2040s, affecting people in their 40s now. There were some goodies, like

:04:02.:04:07.

discounted business rates for small businesses, free school meals for

:04:08.:04:10.

infants, favoured by the Lib Dems, and those marriage tax breaks below

:04:11.:04:15.

that by the Tories. But, as with all big fiscal events, it takes a while

:04:16.:04:17.

for the details to sink in. The marriage tax allowance is a

:04:18.:04:26.

long-standing commitment that he could not abandon. It does help

:04:27.:04:29.

those families were only one goes out to work. It does not go to

:04:30.:04:34.

higher rate taxpayers, I don't think. Perhaps it does, I can't

:04:35.:04:39.

remember. It makes me feel guilty, I am taking them very seriously,

:04:40.:04:44.

but... Shall I give you them? There is the Autumn Statement. Have that,

:04:45.:04:47.

a free gift from the Sunday Politics. Is there no limit to the

:04:48.:04:51.

generosity of the BBC? In the meantime, Twitter was awash

:04:52.:05:01.

with unflattering pictures of a red-faced Ed Balls giving his

:05:02.:05:05.

response. Some pictures were more than flattering than others. Is Ed

:05:06.:05:11.

Balls OK? Should we be worrying about him? He looks very stressed.

:05:12.:05:15.

There is nothing to worry about in terms of Ed balls and his analysis.

:05:16.:05:19.

He and Ed Miliband have been setting the pace in terms of the focus on

:05:20.:05:27.

the living standards crisis. It was very telling that there was not a

:05:28.:05:30.

mention of living standards last time, we got 12 mentions this time.

:05:31.:05:35.

Never mind what he was saying, by now everybody has a copy of the

:05:36.:05:42.

all-important paperwork. Time to hand over to number cruncher

:05:43.:05:45.

extraordinaire Paul Johnson from the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Of

:05:46.:05:49.

course it means that things are significantly better this year and

:05:50.:05:52.

next than we thought they would be just nine months ago. That has got

:05:53.:05:56.

to be good news. But it is also worth looking at the growth figures

:05:57.:06:00.

a few years out. They have been revised down a little bit. The

:06:01.:06:08.

reason is, the view of the office of budget response ability is that the

:06:09.:06:11.

long run has not really changed very much. We are getting a bit more

:06:12.:06:15.

growth now, but their view is that it is at the cost of a little bit of

:06:16.:06:19.

the growth we will expect in the years after the next general

:06:20.:06:23.

election. As the day draws to a close, the one place there has

:06:24.:06:27.

definitely been no growth is the graphics budget of my colleague

:06:28.:06:35.

Robert Preston. It's as good as it gets these days, I don't think the

:06:36.:06:39.

viewers will mind. It's very Sunday Politics, if I might say. That is

:06:40.:06:47.

very worrying. Was this a watershed for George

:06:48.:06:52.

Osborne? Was it a watershed for Ed Balls? We can all make the case that

:06:53.:06:56.

it is the wrong sort of recovery, a consumer led recovery. People are

:06:57.:07:00.

spending money they don't have. At the end of the day, it for George

:07:01.:07:04.

Osborne, it is growth, the first time he has been able to talk about

:07:05.:07:09.

growth. It allows him to control the baseline, the fiscal debate for the

:07:10.:07:14.

next generation. For Ed Balls, nearly not a good performance. But

:07:15.:07:17.

don't write this man off. Judging by Twitter, Iain Dale, no friend of it

:07:18.:07:21.

all is, said he did a good interview this morning on a rival TV channel.

:07:22.:07:30.

I feel the fact that the Tories hate Ed Balls so passionately is probably

:07:31.:07:33.

a good reason that they should hang onto him, in that Labour sends his

:07:34.:07:40.

effectiveness. May be the Tories hope that they hold on to him as

:07:41.:07:47.

well? A lot of people shouting at someone and mocking their speech

:07:48.:07:49.

impediment, that is politics that doesn't make me want to engage. The

:07:50.:07:53.

takeaway will be lots of people thinking that none of these people

:07:54.:07:58.

are people they like. Who is the main heckler on the Labour front

:07:59.:08:01.

bench West remarked I suppose he can't cast any stones. It would be

:08:02.:08:06.

easier to sympathise with him, if it were not that David Cameron went

:08:07.:08:10.

through a similar situation and John Bercow did not step in to stop the

:08:11.:08:15.

wall of noise. It was guaranteed a good happen to a Labour politician.

:08:16.:08:23.

It's painful to remove him because he had a Parliamentary following and

:08:24.:08:30.

he will kick up a fuss. I think he's much more pragmatic on issues like

:08:31.:08:35.

business than Ed Miliband. I'm told he wasn't keen on the energy price

:08:36.:08:41.

freeze. The problem with Ed Balls, to have the first words that you

:08:42.:08:45.

say, the Chancellor is in denial, after he is presiding over growth,

:08:46.:08:50.

it means nobody is listening to you. Who would replace him? Certainly not

:08:51.:08:54.

Alistair Darling, the side of the referendum and even afterwards. Ed

:08:55.:08:58.

Balls did get a roasting in the press and on Twitter. He seemed to

:08:59.:09:01.

disappear from public view following the Autumn Statement. But a little

:09:02.:09:05.

bird tells me he managed one interview this morning before he

:09:06.:09:08.

went off to an all-important piano recital this afternoon. Watch out,

:09:09.:09:13.

Jools Holland, he could be after your job. How bad was his

:09:14.:09:16.

performance on Thursday? Here is the Shadow Chancellor in action. The

:09:17.:09:23.

Chancellor is incomplete denial about the central facts that are

:09:24.:09:28.

defining this government in office. He used to say he would balance the

:09:29.:09:39.

books in 2015. Now he wants us to congratulate him for saying he will

:09:40.:09:44.

do it in 2019, Mr Speaker. With this government, it is clearly not just

:09:45.:09:51.

the badgers that move the goalposts. No mention of the universal credit

:09:52.:09:58.

in the statement. IDS, in deep shambles, Mr Speaker. Chris Leslie

:09:59.:10:08.

is the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury. He is Ed Balls's deputy,

:10:09.:10:14.

in other words. Why do more and more of your Labour colleagues think that

:10:15.:10:20.

your boss is below the water line? I'm not sure I accept the premise of

:10:21.:10:23.

your suggestion. I don't think my colleagues believe that George

:10:24.:10:29.

Osborne has a superior argument I think Ed Balls will certainly trying

:10:30.:10:32.

his best, loud and clear, to make the case there is a cost of living

:10:33.:10:36.

crisis in this country and the Chancellor doesn't understand this.

:10:37.:10:39.

That was essentially the heat of the debate on the Autumn Statement day.

:10:40.:10:45.

One leading Labour MPs said to me that Ed Balls is always looking

:10:46.:10:47.

back, fixated with the rear-view mirror, that was the exact quote. A

:10:48.:10:53.

Labour MP told Sky News, Labour has a strong argument to make,

:10:54.:10:57.

unfortunately it was not made well in the chamber today. Quoting the

:10:58.:11:06.

Daily Mail, this is two poor performances. A quote that I can't

:11:07.:11:11.

use because it uses too many four letter words. Baroness Armstrong,

:11:12.:11:16.

speaking at Progress, a former Labour Cabinet minister, we are not

:11:17.:11:21.

sufficiently concerned about public spending, how we would pay for what

:11:22.:11:24.

we are talking about. Quite a battering? There were two sets of

:11:25.:11:28.

quotes you were giving. The couple were about the strategy for tackling

:11:29.:11:34.

public expenditure. I think it's fair that we talk about that. The

:11:35.:11:40.

rest were pretty unattributed, nameless sources. You have never

:11:41.:11:51.

given and of the record briefing? We have conversations off camera, but I

:11:52.:11:56.

don't think you have a wealth of evidence to say that somehow Ed

:11:57.:12:00.

Balls's arguments were wrong. He was making the point that, ultimately,

:12:01.:12:04.

it is a government that does not have its finger on the pulse about

:12:05.:12:09.

what most of your viewers are concerned about, that wages are

:12:10.:12:12.

being squeezed and prices are getting higher and higher. You have

:12:13.:12:17.

had time to study the Autumn Statement. What part of it does

:12:18.:12:23.

Labour disagree with? It is a very big question. I think the overall

:12:24.:12:29.

strategy the Autumn Statement is setting out does not deal with the

:12:30.:12:32.

fundamental problems in the economy. What measures do you disagree with?

:12:33.:12:37.

A lot of it is the absence of measures we would have put in if we

:12:38.:12:40.

were doing the Autumn Statement If you are going to deal with the cost

:12:41.:12:44.

of living crisis, you have got to get productivity levels up in our

:12:45.:12:48.

society. One of the best ways of doing that is on infrastructure We

:12:49.:12:52.

believe in bringing forward 's investment and housing, getting some

:12:53.:12:56.

of the fundamentals right in our economy. By planting, the business

:12:57.:13:04.

lending we have to do. We have seen a lamentable failing. There are big

:13:05.:13:13.

structural reforms that we need Ultimately, the public are concerned

:13:14.:13:16.

about the cost of living crisis That has got to be childcare help, a

:13:17.:13:21.

10p starting rate of tax. Above all, and energy price freeze, which

:13:22.:13:25.

still this government are refusing to do. On Friday, you told me you

:13:26.:13:31.

supported the principle of a welfare cap. But you change bling claim the

:13:32.:13:36.

Chancellor's cap included pensions. You have now seen the figures, and

:13:37.:13:40.

it does not include pensions, correct? We do want a welfare cap.

:13:41.:13:45.

The government have said they are going to put more detail on this in

:13:46.:13:51.

the March budget. But it does not include pensions? We think they have

:13:52.:13:55.

a short term approach to the welfare cap. They put in some pension

:13:56.:14:01.

benefits. The state pension is not in the short-term plan because, as

:14:02.:14:04.

we believe, a triple lock is a good idea. In the longer term, if you are

:14:05.:14:10.

talking about structural welfare issues, you do have to think about

:14:11.:14:13.

pensions because they have to be sustainable if we are living

:14:14.:14:16.

longer. I think that is about the careful management. Let me show you

:14:17.:14:21.

what Ed Balls said on this programme at the start of the summer. As for

:14:22.:14:27.

pensioners, I think this is a real question. George Osborne is going to

:14:28.:14:30.

announce his cap in two weeks time. I don't know if he will exclude

:14:31.:14:34.

pension spending or including. Our plan is to include it. Pension

:14:35.:14:38.

spending would be included in the welfare cap? That is our plan,

:14:39.:14:44.

exactly what I just said. Over the long-term, if you have a serious

:14:45.:14:47.

welfare cap structural welfare issues, over 20, 30, 40 year

:14:48.:14:53.

period, you can't say that we will not work and pensions as part of

:14:54.:14:58.

that. Pensions would be part of the Labour cap? In the longer term. What

:14:59.:15:06.

is the longer term? If you win 015? We want to stick with the triple

:15:07.:15:11.

lock on the pension, that is the Government approach to their

:15:12.:15:15.

short-term welfare cap. In the longer term, for example, on the

:15:16.:15:19.

winter fuel allowance, we should not necessarily be... There are lots of

:15:20.:15:25.

benefits... I understand that, I am talking about the basic state

:15:26.:15:28.

pension, is that part of your welfare cap or not? In a 20, 30 40

:15:29.:15:35.

year frame... Even you will not be around in government, then. You are

:15:36.:15:45.

writing me off already. You have to focus on welfare changes, pensions

:15:46.:15:48.

have to be affordable as part of that. It's dangerous to say, well,

:15:49.:15:52.

if you are going to have a serious welfare cap, we should not look at

:15:53.:15:55.

pensions cost. It would be irresponsible. Will pensions be part

:15:56.:16:03.

of the cap from 2015 until 2020 if Labour is in power? In our long term

:16:04.:16:08.

cap we have to make sure... I'm talking about 2015-16. We haven t

:16:09.:16:16.

seen the proposition the Government has put before us.

:16:17.:16:21.

You claim people of ?1600 worse off under the coalition. That is true

:16:22.:16:32.

when you compare to pay and prices. Can you confirm that calculation

:16:33.:16:36.

does not include the ?700 tax cut from raising the income tax

:16:37.:16:42.

threshold, huge savings on mortgages because of low interest or the

:16:43.:16:47.

freezing of council tax? It doesn't include the tax and benefit

:16:48.:16:50.

changes. If you do want to look at those, last year, the ISS said they

:16:51.:16:56.

could be making people worse off. It might not include those factors The

:16:57.:17:04.

VAT increase, tax credit cuts, child benefit cuts, they all add up. My

:17:05.:17:10.

understanding is that the ISS figures have said people are ?8 1

:17:11.:17:16.

worse off if you look at the tax and benefit changes since 2010. You have

:17:17.:17:23.

to look at wages and prices. The ISS confirmed our approach was broadly

:17:24.:17:27.

the right way of assessing what is happening. The Chancellor was

:17:28.:17:33.

saying, real household disposable incomes are rising. He is completely

:17:34.:17:39.

out of touch. Can you sum up the macro economic policy for Labour?

:17:40.:17:44.

Invest in the future, make sure we have the right approach for the

:17:45.:17:48.

long-term politicking. Tackle the cost of living crisis people are

:17:49.:17:51.

facing. Now, let's talk to the Financial

:17:52.:17:54.

Secretary to the Treasury, Sajid Javid.

:17:55.:18:03.

Discovery, underpinned by rising house prices, increasing personal

:18:04.:18:09.

debt, do you accept that is unsustainable?

:18:10.:18:13.

I accept the OBE are also said the reason why this country is facing

:18:14.:18:19.

more these challenges -- OBR. That is because we went through a

:18:20.:18:26.

Labour recession, the worst we have seen in 100 years. But do you accept

:18:27.:18:34.

that a recovery underpinned by these things I have just read out isn t

:18:35.:18:40.

sustainable? We set out a long-term plan for recovery, and again this

:18:41.:18:45.

week. We have shown with the tough decisions we have made already, the

:18:46.:18:49.

country can enjoy a recovery. There are still a lot of difficult

:18:50.:18:54.

decisions. The biggest risk are Labour's plans. The March

:18:55.:19:05.

projections work at for those - for both business investment and

:19:06.:19:10.

exports. Suddenly it is expected to rise 5% next year, a 10% turnaround

:19:11.:19:16.

in investment. How is it credible? I have been in business before

:19:17.:19:20.

politics. Any business person listening will know, when you have

:19:21.:19:24.

gone through a recession, the deepest in 100 years, it will hit

:19:25.:19:30.

investment, profits, you can't make plans again until you have

:19:31.:19:34.

confidence in the economy. That is what this country is seeing now

:19:35.:19:43.

under this government. This is an assumption made independently. The

:19:44.:19:49.

fall in business investment is because of the recession. The

:19:50.:19:55.

forecast increases, 5% next year, and so on, it is based on the

:19:56.:20:02.

independent forecast. Based on fact. If you look at the investment plans

:20:03.:20:07.

of companies, this week, the Chancellor went to JCB, Jaguar Land

:20:08.:20:15.

Rover has plans to create more jobs, these investment plans are

:20:16.:20:19.

coming through now because of the confidence generated by this

:20:20.:20:23.

government, such as the cut in corporation tax which Labour would

:20:24.:20:28.

increase. Are the export forecasts more credible? The 15 years, our

:20:29.:20:33.

share of world trade decline. Suddenly starting next year, it

:20:34.:20:41.

stops falling. That's not credible. I worked in finance the 20 years. I

:20:42.:20:46.

have yet to find any forecast which is fully right. Under Labour, we

:20:47.:20:54.

would have forecasts made by Gordon Brown who would announce he would

:20:55.:21:00.

hit all his targets. Now we have an independent system.

:21:01.:21:05.

Do you accept, if exports or business investment do not pick up,

:21:06.:21:11.

then a purely consumer led recovery is not sustainable? We need more

:21:12.:21:15.

than a consumer led recovery. We need consumer investment to go up.

:21:16.:21:23.

On Xbox, it is noticeable that experts are primarily down because

:21:24.:21:26.

the markets we trade with, the eurozone markets, are depressed

:21:27.:21:31.

Many have just come out of recession. Or they are still in

:21:32.:21:37.

recession. If you look at exports to non-EU countries, they are up 3 %.

:21:38.:21:47.

120% to China. 100% to Russia. Will you keep the triple lock for

:21:48.:21:53.

the state pension beyond 2015? Yes, long term. That's why it is not part

:21:54.:21:59.

of our welfare cap. Chris Leslie cannot answer that question. It is

:22:00.:22:03.

straightforward. House prices are now rising ten

:22:04.:22:11.

times faster than average earnings. That's not good. House prices are

:22:12.:22:19.

rising, partly reflecting recovery. Ten times faster than average

:22:20.:22:23.

earnings, how can people afford to buy homes if it carries on? What you

:22:24.:22:29.

would hope, this is the evidence, if you look at the plans of the month

:22:30.:22:33.

companies, they are planning new homes which will mean that, as this

:22:34.:22:40.

demand spurs that investment, more homes will come about. We need to

:22:41.:22:44.

give people the means to buy those homes. We have introduced the help

:22:45.:23:27.

to buy scheme. I accept the OBR says it will start rising again but as

:23:28.:23:38.

household debt rises again Petr Cech reduces, -- as household debt

:23:39.:23:52.

reduces, we need to make sure there are checks in place. Wages have not

:23:53.:23:57.

been rising in real terms for quite some time. Over the next five years,

:23:58.:24:05.

even as the economy grows, by about 15% according the OBR to the OBR --

:24:06.:24:17.

but people will not benefit. These hard-working families will not share

:24:18.:24:23.

in the recovery. What is the best way to help those families? The

:24:24.:24:29.

government doesn't set wages. What we can do is influence the overall

:24:30.:24:33.

economy. We don't have a magic lever. Wages have been stagnating

:24:34.:24:43.

for five years. When will people get a proper salary? The best way for

:24:44.:24:49.

wage growth is a growing economy, more jobs. We have more people

:24:50.:24:53.

employed in Britain today than at any time in our history. The biggest

:24:54.:25:00.

risk to recovery is if we let Labour into the Treasury with more spending

:25:01.:25:05.

and more debt. Which got us into this trouble. By whatever measure

:25:06.:25:10.

you care to choose, would people be better off come the 20 15th election

:25:11.:25:16.

than they were in 2010? Yes, they will be. Look at jobs. Already more

:25:17.:25:23.

people employed than at any other time in history. Will they be better

:25:24.:25:28.

off? The best way for anyone to raise their living standards is

:25:29.:25:32.

access to a growing job market. But will they be better off? I believe

:25:33.:25:40.

people will be. Compared to 201 . Yes. In terms of take-home pay. This

:25:41.:25:45.

is a credible measure. Now, what do you think the Education

:25:46.:25:51.

Secretary, Michael Gove, was like at school? Hard-working? Hand always

:25:52.:25:55.

up? Top of the class? Well, if he wasn't passionate about education

:25:56.:25:58.

then, he is now. In fact, since he took office, it seems he hasn't

:25:59.:26:05.

stopped working very hard indeed. When the coalition came to power,

:26:06.:26:08.

Michael Gove evoked Mao, saying they were on a long march to reform

:26:09.:26:11.

education. Just like Mao, they faced a baby boom, so pledged ?5 billion

:26:12.:26:18.

for new school places. They extended Labour's academy programme. There's

:26:19.:26:23.

now about 3,000 in England. But then, they marched even further

:26:24.:26:25.

creating free schools run by parents, funded by taxpayers. 1 4

:26:26.:26:32.

have opened so far. The schools admission code was changed, to give

:26:33.:26:35.

parents more choice. And a pupil premium was introduced,

:26:36.:26:38.

currently, an extra ?900 funding for each disadvantaged child.

:26:39.:26:41.

An overhaul of the national curriculum provoked criticism.

:26:42.:26:46.

Chairman Gove mocked detractors as "bad academia". But exam reforms

:26:47.:26:53.

didn't quite go to plan. Although GCSEs got harder, plans to replace

:26:54.:26:57.

A-levels had to be abandoned. Ultimately, the true test of these

:26:58.:27:00.

reforms will be what happens in the classroom. The person in charge of

:27:01.:27:06.

making sure those classrooms are up to scratch in England is the Chief

:27:07.:27:09.

Inspector Of Schools, head of Ofsted, Michael Wilshaw, who joins

:27:10.:27:13.

me now. Over the past 15 years, we have

:27:14.:27:19.

doubled spending on schools even allowing for inflation. By

:27:20.:27:22.

international standards, we are stagnating, why? I said last year

:27:23.:27:28.

that mediocrity had settled into the system. Too many children were

:27:29.:27:38.

coasting in schools, which is why we changed the grading structure, we

:27:39.:27:44.

removed that awful word, satisfactory. Saying that good is

:27:45.:27:49.

now the only acceptable standard and schools had a limited time in which

:27:50.:27:52.

to get to that. We are seeing gradually, it is difficult to say

:27:53.:27:58.

this in the week we have had the OECD report. Things have gradually

:27:59.:28:04.

improved. I will come onto that in a minute. Explain this. International

:28:05.:28:08.

comparisons show us flat-lining or even falling in some subjects,

:28:09.:28:14.

including science. For 20 years our domestic exam results just got

:28:15.:28:18.

better and better. Was this a piece of fiction fed to us by the

:28:19.:28:23.

educational establishment, was there a cover-up? There is no question

:28:24.:28:29.

there has grade inflation. I speak as an ex-headteacher who saw that in

:28:30.:28:35.

examinations. Perceptual state is actually doing something about that.

:28:36.:28:39.

Most good heads will say that is about time. We have to be credible.

:28:40.:28:49.

Do politicians and educationalists conspire in this grade inflation? It

:28:50.:28:52.

might suit politicians to say things are going up every year. As a head,

:28:53.:28:58.

I knew a lot of the exams youngsters were sitting were not up to scratch.

:28:59.:29:06.

The latest OECD study places us 36th for maths, 23rd reading, slipping

:29:07.:29:12.

down to 21st in science. Yet, Ofsted, your organisation,

:29:13.:29:17.

designates 80% of schools as good or outstanding. That's another fiction.

:29:18.:29:23.

This year, we have. If we see this level of progress, it has been a

:29:24.:29:26.

remarkable progress over the last years since we changed our grading

:29:27.:29:32.

structure, then... In a year, absolutely. We have better teachers

:29:33.:29:37.

coming into our school system. Better leaders. Better schools. The

:29:38.:29:41.

big challenge for our country is making sure that progress is

:29:42.:29:44.

maintained which will eventually translate into better outcomes.

:29:45.:29:51.

These figures are pretty much up-to-date. Are you saying within a

:29:52.:29:57.

year 80% of the schools are good enough? All of the schools we

:29:58.:30:03.

upgraded have had better grades in GCSE and grade 2. We have to make

:30:04.:30:08.

sure that is maintained. The Government has based its reforms on

:30:09.:30:11.

similar reforms in Sweden. In opposition they were endlessly going

:30:12.:30:15.

to Stockholm to find out how it was done. Swedish schools are doing even

:30:16.:30:20.

worse than ours in the tables. Why are we copying failure? The

:30:21.:30:26.

secretary of state believes, and I actually believe, as somebody who

:30:27.:30:30.

has come from an academy model, that if you hand power and resources you

:30:31.:30:35.

hand autonomy to the people on the ground, to the people in the

:30:36.:30:38.

classroom, in the corridors, in the playgrounds, things work. If you

:30:39.:30:45.

allow the great monoliths that used to have responsibility for education

:30:46.:30:49.

in the past to take control again, you will see a reverse in standards.

:30:50.:30:53.

You have got to actually empower those people that make the

:30:54.:30:56.

difference. That is why autonomy and freedom is important. We spent a lot

:30:57.:31:02.

of money moving what were local authority schools to become

:31:03.:31:05.

academies and new free school czar being set up as well. When the

:31:06.:31:08.

academies are pretty much the same level of autonomy, the free school

:31:09.:31:13.

is maybe a little bit more, the evidence we have had so far is that

:31:14.:31:18.

they don't really perform any better than local authority schools?

:31:19.:31:21.

Indeed, Encore GCSE subjects, they might even be doing worse? These are

:31:22.:31:26.

early days. We will say more about this on weapons they when we produce

:31:27.:31:30.

the annual report. The sponsored academies that took over the worst

:31:31.:31:34.

schools in the country, in the most difficult circumstances, in the most

:31:35.:31:37.

disadvantaged communities, are doing much better now. What about GCSE?

:31:38.:31:44.

They are doing GCSE equivalents the lass academic subjects question my

:31:45.:31:51.

cull OK, but they are doing better than previous schools. If you look

:31:52.:31:55.

at the top performing nations in the world, they focus on the quality of

:31:56.:32:08.

teaching. The best graduates coming to education. They professionally

:32:09.:32:11.

develop them. They make sure they spot the brightest talents and get

:32:12.:32:15.

them into positions as soon as possible. We have got to do the same

:32:16.:32:18.

if we are going to catch up with those jurisdictions. This isn't just

:32:19.:32:25.

a British problem. It seems to be a European problem. The East Asian

:32:26.:32:29.

countries now dominate the top of the tables. What's the most

:32:30.:32:31.

important lesson we should learn from East Asia? Attitudes to work.

:32:32.:32:36.

We need to make sure that we invest in good teachers, good leaders. We

:32:37.:32:43.

have to make sure that students have the right attitudes to work. It s no

:32:44.:32:47.

good getting good people into the classroom and then seeing them part

:32:48.:32:52.

of teaching by bad behaviour, disaffected youngsters and poor

:32:53.:32:58.

leadership. We see young teachers doing well for a time and then being

:32:59.:33:02.

put off teaching and leaving from that sort of culture in our schools.

:33:03.:33:07.

Are you a cheerleader for government education policy rather than

:33:08.:33:12.

independent inspectors? I am independent, Ofsted is independent.

:33:13.:33:15.

I believe we are saying the right things on standards. The Association

:33:16.:33:20.

of teachers and lecturers say you are an arm of government. The NUT

:33:21.:33:24.

has called for your resignation Another wants to abolish or

:33:25.:33:29.

Inspectorate. Have you become a pariah amongst teaching unions? If

:33:30.:33:34.

we are challenging schools to become better, that is our job, we will

:33:35.:33:40.

carry on doing that. I am not going to preside over the status quo. We

:33:41.:33:43.

will challenge the system to do better, we will challenge schools

:33:44.:33:48.

and colleges to do better. We will also challenge government when we

:33:49.:33:52.

think they are going wrong. Many people in the education

:33:53.:33:54.

establishment think your primary purpose is to do the Government s

:33:55.:33:57.

bidding by shepherding schools into becoming academies. Not true at all.

:33:58.:34:04.

You are a big supporter of academies? Yes, I believe the people

:34:05.:34:09.

that do the business in schools are the people that are free to do what

:34:10.:34:13.

is necessary to raise standards I am a big supporter of autonomy in

:34:14.:34:17.

the school system. But where we see academies Vale, where we see free

:34:18.:34:27.

schools fail, we will say so. The study does not find much evidence

:34:28.:34:31.

that competition and choice raise standards, but it does go with you

:34:32.:34:36.

and say that strong school leadership, coupled with autonomy,

:34:37.:34:40.

can make a difference. Can somebody with no experience in education be

:34:41.:34:45.

in charge of a school? A lot of hot air has been expounded on the issue

:34:46.:34:48.

of whether teachers should be qualified or not. If qualified

:34:49.:34:51.

teacher status was the gold standard, why is it that one in

:34:52.:35:00.

three teachers, one in three lessons that will observe are not good

:35:01.:35:03.

enough. Taught by qualified teachers. I've not yet met a

:35:04.:35:08.

headteacher that has not appointed by qualified staff when they cannot

:35:09.:35:11.

get qualified teachers. Their job is to make sure they get accredited as

:35:12.:35:15.

soon as possible and come up to scratch in the classroom. Do you

:35:16.:35:18.

support the use of unqualified teachers? I do. I have done it. If I

:35:19.:35:25.

could not get a maths, physics or modern languages teacher and I

:35:26.:35:28.

thought somebody straight from university, without qualified

:35:29.:35:31.

teachers start this, that they could communicate well with youngsters, I

:35:32.:35:35.

would get that person into the classroom and get them accredited if

:35:36.:35:39.

they delivered the goods. If we are going to allow schools to have more

:35:40.:35:43.

autonomy and not be accountable to local authorities, free schools

:35:44.:35:48.

academies, don't you have to do .. New entrants will be coming into the

:35:49.:35:53.

market, the educational marketplace. Do you not have to act more quickly

:35:54.:36:00.

when it is clear, and there has been examined recently, where it is

:36:01.:36:03.

clearly going badly wrong and children's education at risk?

:36:04.:36:08.

Absolutely. I made a point to the secretary of state and it is

:36:09.:36:11.

something I will talk more about over the coming year. We need to be

:36:12.:36:14.

in school is much more often. If a school fails at the moment, or

:36:15.:36:18.

underperforms, goes into this new category, Her Majesty 's inspectors

:36:19.:36:25.

stay with that institution until it improves. Sometimes we don't see a

:36:26.:36:28.

school for five or seven years. That is wrong. My argument is that Ofsted

:36:29.:36:32.

should pay a much greater part in monitoring the performance of

:36:33.:36:36.

schools between those inspections. Are you enjoying it? It is a tough

:36:37.:36:43.

job. Are you enjoying it? This is a tough job, but I enjoy it.

:36:44.:36:50.

Sometimes. You are watching Sunday Politics.

:36:51.:36:53.

Coming up in just over 20 minutes, Diane Abbott will be joining us And

:36:54.:36:54.

we Welcome. Coming up in our last

:36:55.:37:12.

programme before Christmas, with the cost of living dominating the

:37:13.:37:16.

political agenda, we take an investment fund manager turned MP in

:37:17.:37:20.

a trip around the shops in his own constituency. Man man admits his

:37:21.:37:26.

wife buys the grocery but should it matter whether your local politician

:37:27.:37:29.

knows the price of bananas? `` Jacob Rees`Mogg. We will be testing these

:37:30.:37:35.

politicians whether they know the cost of living. They are Labour s

:37:36.:37:40.

Dawn Primarolo, James Gray and Stephen Williams. First, he was a

:37:41.:37:46.

man respected about around the globe. Nelson Mandela and his legacy

:37:47.:37:49.

touched millions of people, including many living in the West

:37:50.:37:53.

Country. One of them is Rob Witchell, who is a poet in Bristol

:37:54.:37:59.

and the development worker for the Bristol Forum. He has written this

:38:00.:38:02.

born just for us about why he will be remembered by the young and old

:38:03.:38:08.

for generations to come. Mandela, why did you have to die?

:38:09.:38:15.

We held you in the place we hoped he would live for ever.

:38:16.:38:22.

Passing piece, Madiba. Goodbye, father.

:38:23.:38:28.

With Gandhi, was keen on why they call your name. When asked, who is

:38:29.:38:34.

your hero? In Bristol, we know your name but

:38:35.:38:39.

not what he stood for, we, from Bristol, British and more so

:38:40.:38:49.

Mandela, man, you confuse us. Communist? National Trust?

:38:50.:38:53.

Socialist. Our government had you down as terrorist.

:38:54.:39:00.

With that sole person from this life, there is the most powerful

:39:01.:39:03.

remember that you were mortal, like the rest of us. From Johannesburg to

:39:04.:39:12.

Kingswood, from Cape Town to Kingston. We have no excuse to sit

:39:13.:39:18.

back. With our model of hero. With all the contradiction. No reason to

:39:19.:39:23.

stand back and wait for our own perfection. No option but to stand

:39:24.:39:29.

up and for yourselves to freeze human conviction. Like Mandela,

:39:30.:39:34.

Madiba, goodbye. Don, you have actually met Nelson

:39:35.:39:40.

Mandela. What are your thoughts about? I would just want to see what

:39:41.:39:45.

fantastic poem I thought that was. I was very privileged. I met him twice

:39:46.:39:56.

briefly for a long period. It was at the Finance Ministers when Gordon

:39:57.:40:00.

Brown and Tony Blair were putting together the finance package for

:40:01.:40:06.

edited African Nations Cup and Nelson Mandela came to lobby and

:40:07.:40:12.

support the plan that was being proposed. `` for African nations

:40:13.:40:21.

which were ended. What can you say about somebody who has been defining

:40:22.:40:24.

politics for generations about the struggle in South Africa? And yet he

:40:25.:40:32.

did it with such grace, intelligence but always that twinkle in his eye

:40:33.:40:37.

and that little bit of humour. He had a lovely way about him. I think

:40:38.:40:41.

all of us as politicians wish that had we suffered as much as he had

:40:42.:40:47.

and then be released after 27 years we would be as well as he did to .

:40:48.:40:53.

And to leave South Africa to be the fabulous nation it is. What do you

:40:54.:41:02.

gauge Nelson Mandela's impact on the quality issues in the West Country?

:41:03.:41:06.

I think he is a Ousely and inspiration to many people. All

:41:07.:41:08.

primary schools to visit across the West, the most diverse,

:41:09.:41:15.

multicultural constituency in the south`west of England. They will all

:41:16.:41:19.

have pictures of him alongside others to inspire the children. He

:41:20.:41:26.

was inspirational to my generation has stopped I am very envious of

:41:27.:41:34.

Dawn. When I was getting political myself in the 1980s, I used to go on

:41:35.:41:40.

anti`apartheid demonstrations against Thatcher and it takes me a

:41:41.:41:43.

little but, perhaps. He inspired many people in this country. The

:41:44.:41:50.

left as well as the right? He was a grainy died very great man.

:41:51.:41:53.

Knowledge fire him and shall miss them. The thing I admire most is

:41:54.:41:57.

that when he came out of prison he could have attacked the people who

:41:58.:42:03.

locked him up but he let bygones be bygones. `` he was a very great man.

:42:04.:42:10.

We all admire him and shall miss him. I think everybody shall agree

:42:11.:42:15.

with that. The outcome of the next general election will hinge on

:42:16.:42:21.

places like Swindon. Whichever party wins in Swindon usually wins the

:42:22.:42:24.

Government. The town was badly hit by the recession but appears to be

:42:25.:42:27.

enjoying a good recovery. What does that mean for Labour in 2015? This

:42:28.:42:33.

report does contain some flash photography.

:42:34.:42:39.

He wants to paint the town red. Ed Balls rolled up his sleeves as he

:42:40.:42:43.

came campaigning in Swindon. He has regularly rubbed shoulders with

:42:44.:42:48.

Labour's candidates here and visited before all out cancellations last

:42:49.:42:52.

year, which saw the Reds just failed to deprive the ruling Tories of

:42:53.:42:58.

their majority. It was a tough ask given what had to be done. We did

:42:59.:43:03.

well in Swindon and I am confident that as a platform to when the

:43:04.:43:06.

Parliamentary seats and counsel They all know that it views to

:43:07.:43:09.

become the next Chancellor of the Exchequer, Labour must succeed in

:43:10.:43:13.

Swindon. We want to win a Labour majority back in 2015. That means

:43:14.:43:18.

that we need to win at North, south, east and west in our country.

:43:19.:43:23.

Swindon is vital for Labour. Need to have Labour MPs back in here, not

:43:24.:43:28.

just for Swindon but so that we can get that majority. The area relies

:43:29.:43:32.

heavily on private sector jobs full fare particularly badly when the

:43:33.:43:36.

downturn came. The conservative` run council reckon recovery started

:43:37.:43:41.

early. I think that people are feeling more confident. I speak to a

:43:42.:43:45.

lot of businesses making investments and thinking about doing so. The

:43:46.:43:48.

outlook is very positive. I appreciate that people are feeling

:43:49.:43:52.

quite stretched with their private finances, particularly around

:43:53.:43:57.

utility bills. A feel`good factor could be some way off. Many people

:43:58.:44:03.

are financially worse off and anger over cuts to services may grow. I

:44:04.:44:10.

think of resources continue to get pressed by the increase in demand

:44:11.:44:13.

and reduction in government funding, people will start to see bigger

:44:14.:44:18.

changes. `` if our resources. Who do you think the public would blame?

:44:19.:44:24.

That is a good question! I suspect probably the party of government.

:44:25.:44:35.

How are you? Back with Ed Balls and him meeting the next generation of

:44:36.:44:39.

voters. He clearly wants some fans. The challenge is to get them to

:44:40.:44:43.

actually vote in 2015. At least Labour will not have to worry about

:44:44.:44:48.

the fans of Clegg. Swindon is largely seen as a two horse race but

:44:49.:44:54.

the Lib Dems picked up one in six votes here in the last election

:44:55.:45:00.

Will their participation in the core election, `` Coalition swing the

:45:01.:45:04.

sports back to Labour? I'm guessing they have had a time of it from the

:45:05.:45:08.

previous government and what they were left to deal with, the Lib

:45:09.:45:15.

Dems, it is a tough one. It has definitely lowered my opinion of the

:45:16.:45:18.

Lib Dems. I wouldn't vote for them on that basis again. I am not happy.

:45:19.:45:22.

Generally not happy with the way everything is going. You have not

:45:23.:45:29.

been put off? No. I was quite glad that they got there rather than the

:45:30.:45:32.

Tories getting there altogether Christmas is the season of goodwill

:45:33.:45:37.

and politics may not feel that way. Let's discuss the state of the

:45:38.:45:41.

parties, not only in Swindon but right across the rest. Stephen

:45:42.:45:44.

Williams, some people were very angry with the Lib Dems when they

:45:45.:45:46.

went into coalition with the Tories because it made this cuts agenda

:45:47.:45:51.

possible. How are they feeling now? I think the Coalition made the cuts

:45:52.:45:56.

agenda possible. Under the economic circumstance, it made it a necessity

:45:57.:46:01.

forced `` I don't think. They were going to have to form the country's

:46:02.:46:06.

first peacetime coalition against that backdrop and it was always

:46:07.:46:10.

going to be challenged. They knew it would be tough in the early stages

:46:11.:46:13.

of the parliament and then hopefully the economy would turn and the

:46:14.:46:15.

public finances would be on the mend. You didn't plan for that

:46:16.:46:21.

before the election so we didn't have a manifesto which warned this

:46:22.:46:25.

was what he would be doing. When you write your next manifesto, isn't

:46:26.:46:28.

going to mean anything? All three parties are actually going to be

:46:29.:46:31.

fighting the next general election in a different way because we will

:46:32.:46:35.

have had five years of coalition. I think all three leaders in most of

:46:36.:46:41.

the will be slightly different. The manifestoes will be written in

:46:42.:46:45.

different ways. The public will see that coalition can work. They can

:46:46.:46:49.

take tough decisions. One of the things that was said at the last

:46:50.:46:57.

general election was that coalition would lead to weak government. The

:46:58.:47:01.

unions were predicting social unrest with the strikes, student protests

:47:02.:47:06.

but it has never happened. Perhaps people are not as angry as you might

:47:07.:47:10.

think. I think people are angry and I think that they believe, and the

:47:11.:47:15.

polls are showing, that this Government is making the wrong

:47:16.:47:20.

choices, that the Coalition is making the wrong choices. It is the

:47:21.:47:23.

wrong choice to give a tax cut to millionaires whilst cutting

:47:24.:47:28.

support. What you have been saying that fought going to wear a bit

:47:29.:47:32.

thin. Very interesting you should say that. The poll that was done

:47:33.:47:36.

immediately after the Autumn Statement on Thursday showed that

:47:37.:47:44.

40% of people were saying they thought that Ed Balls had got it

:47:45.:47:47.

right in terms of, I know where going to discuss this, the cost of

:47:48.:47:54.

living. But actually, the issues around this Government and the cuts

:47:55.:47:59.

that they are making, that the inherited an economy growing and

:48:00.:48:02.

chalked the growth of, now it is coming back, thankfully, but a lot

:48:03.:48:06.

of pain in between. Let James respond. First thing I would say is

:48:07.:48:12.

that this business about cutting tax, the highest tax on millionaires

:48:13.:48:20.

under Labour was 40% and under this Government it is 45%. We have put

:48:21.:48:24.

the tax upon moaners. I am sure Ed Balls of the nice fellow but... With

:48:25.:48:28.

that where you shouting at him in Parliament? We are seeing Ed Balls

:48:29.:48:40.

trying to respond to the excellent Autumn Statement. It is not going as

:48:41.:48:50.

well as when it was elected. We are having to be ?150 million per day on

:48:51.:48:53.

the debts that Labour racked up Endlessly, a market in Bath said not

:48:54.:49:01.

to come because was too busy. A lot of confidence around. We have to

:49:02.:49:06.

talk about other things because it is the question that makes the blood

:49:07.:49:09.

of an unwitting MP threes. Just how much do things cost in the shops?

:49:10.:49:12.

David Cameron was tripped up recently with the price of a loaf of

:49:13.:49:20.

bread. `` an unwitting MP threes. With the cost of living dominating

:49:21.:49:27.

the agenda, one of our reporters to one of the West was the wealthiest

:49:28.:49:30.

MPs on a trip to the shops. `` took one of the West's wealthiest MPs.

:49:31.:49:37.

It has become the political catchphrase of the year. The Rag

:49:38.:49:39.

cost`of`living crisis. Cost`of`living crisis. For all their

:49:40.:49:46.

talk of the squeeze on cost`of`living, our politicians

:49:47.:49:52.

really in tune with rising prices? I doubt very much they do their own

:49:53.:49:55.

shopping so I think they are quite detached from the general public. I

:49:56.:49:59.

cannot see why they would have any understanding of how much a weekly

:50:00.:50:03.

shop would cost. Someone asked an MP how much a page of milk costs and he

:50:04.:50:08.

said about a pound. It's like 3 p. I just think they have not got any

:50:09.:50:12.

idea. I do not think they do their own shopping. Do you think MPs know

:50:13.:50:16.

how much stuff costs in the shops? No. They probably haven't got a

:50:17.:50:22.

clue, to be honest. They are not shoppers, are they? Like women! That

:50:23.:50:28.

is true in the case of the local MP. Jacob Rees`Mogg he's the local shop

:50:29.:50:34.

to someone else. By which takes charge `` my wife takes charge of

:50:35.:50:37.

most of these things. Whim of the last time we went to the

:50:38.:50:45.

supermarket? Is a partner in his own investment

:50:46.:50:49.

management firm, Mr Rees`Mogg is a very long way from the poverty line.

:50:50.:50:55.

Despite his lack of retail savvy, he agrees to a special challenge. Three

:50:56.:51:04.

shopkeepers have agreed to put their local MP to the test on the cost of

:51:05.:51:08.

some local results tables. First up, the bridge is. I have for delicious

:51:09.:51:14.

Welsh double lamb chops. My challenge is how much do you think

:51:15.:51:17.

that will cost? The correct I do not know. They were delicious. I doubt

:51:18.:51:22.

would get much change for ?10. Let's find out. There are ?12.31. There

:51:23.:51:28.

you go, an increase in the cost`of`living, otherwise I would

:51:29.:51:34.

have been right. EV do guess but it is `` a vague guess but quite close.

:51:35.:51:39.

They're changing the way they buy their food. We have noticed that

:51:40.:51:43.

people are opting for the cheaper cuts of meat. Obviously for

:51:44.:51:47.

students, home`made burgers, minced beef and things like that whereas

:51:48.:51:51.

they might have had a romp state or sirloin steak. There is definitely a

:51:52.:51:57.

change. Next on the tour, something frequent for his wife. `` fragrant.

:51:58.:52:05.

We have some here so would you like to have a go at getting much this

:52:06.:52:08.

bunch would cost? I think that really difficult. I know I have got

:52:09.:52:13.

to be precise. I am not allowed to give a woolly answer. I would say

:52:14.:52:22.

?30. That actually costs 35. I was right, flowers are expensive and

:52:23.:52:25.

even more than I thought but they are very beautiful. Close again But

:52:26.:52:30.

how will Eton and Oxford's finest fare against his nemesis? I am the

:52:31.:52:35.

wrong person to ask about bananas because in those banana. I would

:52:36.:52:40.

never buy bananas! I absolutely hate bananas. They have stumped me on

:52:41.:52:46.

this one. What you think that would cost you? Being a use that for

:52:47.:52:55.

pounds two kilos. ?3? You're weird. That is only about ?1 28. Still ?1

:52:56.:53:06.

28 too much! It is a big slip on our final banana skin but can MPs

:53:07.:53:12.

legislating in London ever fully understand those they represent I

:53:13.:53:15.

think it is about empathy rather than experience. I always thought we

:53:16.:53:21.

are a society of individuals. Nobody liked anybody else's life precisely

:53:22.:53:23.

and so whatever your background you have to try to have an understanding

:53:24.:53:28.

of what affect other people and work on that understanding. That is what

:53:29.:53:32.

is important for politicians, rather than leading identical lives to

:53:33.:53:38.

their constituents. They will not. The ability of well`paid MPs to

:53:39.:53:41.

empathise with ordinary shoppers will be tested further as the

:53:42.:53:43.

argument over the cost`of`living intensifies.

:53:44.:53:48.

Thank you to Jacob Rees`Mogg for being a good sport and doing the

:53:49.:53:51.

rounds of the shops for us. As it is Christmas time, we thought we would

:53:52.:53:54.

have a little quiz for you all. First of all, for an ordinary pack

:53:55.:53:59.

of water, you can see it behind me, you reckon? `` pack of water. ? .

:54:00.:54:11.

?2.50. I tend to buy tops. ?1.2 . It is in fact ?1.50. So there is a

:54:12.:54:20.

prize. Oh, it is unfolded! Excellent. Only the BBC. Our next

:54:21.:54:28.

one is a Jo Brand resource as it is Christmas. I never buy it. ?2. Oh,

:54:29.:54:44.

?2.20. ?3.50. It is ?1.50. It was you! Well, I never buy! Lucky guess.

:54:45.:54:54.

That was, actually. It was a guest! That is my Christmas present sorted.

:54:55.:55:02.

Cranberries 's! Isn't because it's Christmas. To get back to the

:55:03.:55:09.

political point, the cost`of`living, that is going to be very much the

:55:10.:55:19.

agenda for the next election, his Ed Miliband actually been surprised at

:55:20.:55:24.

them sitting that agenda? No. It is slightly overshadowed by the death

:55:25.:55:31.

of Nova Mandela but we can see that the economy is better. `` Nelson

:55:32.:55:37.

Mandela. Who feeling richer? People fear more secure in their jobs ``

:55:38.:55:43.

feel more secure in their jobs. Look at the predictions on growth in the

:55:44.:55:47.

economy figures that George Osborne denied. Very encouraging indeed You

:55:48.:55:53.

are quite right in saying that prices are going up, particularly in

:55:54.:56:02.

energy. `` George Osborne give out. In the doorstep, in the mailbag

:56:03.:56:07.

people are very concerned about rising prices of food and their

:56:08.:56:12.

energy bills. They feel they have got no slack in their budgets. They

:56:13.:56:16.

are cutting back, even as we run into Christmas, and they are

:56:17.:56:20.

absolutely worried that something, their heating boiler, might go and

:56:21.:56:23.

they will need a house repair. What is the Government doing to address

:56:24.:56:28.

those concerns? The first thing is give people more money in their

:56:29.:56:35.

pockets by reading the income tax allowance. That is worth ?700 per

:56:36.:56:38.

year to people. We have frozen fuel duty, cancelled a lot of the fuel

:56:39.:56:46.

duty rises that Labour had planned. We have frozen council tax. That is

:56:47.:56:49.

much more significant for many people than their energy bills and

:56:50.:56:53.

this week, the Lib Dem imagery secretary reduced action on ?50 No,

:56:54.:57:00.

stopping them going up as much. That is not quite the same thing. `` just

:57:01.:57:06.

energy bills by ?50. People are saying that the things they need for

:57:07.:57:09.

their daily lives are too expensive is. They are feeling more expensive

:57:10.:57:18.

and they are struggling. We cannot always deal with every single price

:57:19.:57:22.

rise but what we can do is have the economic conditions, more people

:57:23.:57:26.

going to work, unemployment has fallen below with it was the last

:57:27.:57:30.

general election, put more money into people's pockets by income tax

:57:31.:57:34.

changes. Let's take a final run to the political week. This is our 62nd

:57:35.:57:45.

round up. `` 60 second round up There was anger in the West's

:57:46.:57:50.

universities. Lecturers and support staff from three unions, saying an

:57:51.:57:55.

offer of a 1% increase in pay was my belly `` miserly. We have members

:57:56.:57:59.

who have to put food banks and we do not that is right. But the curtain

:58:00.:58:04.

will rise again in the Brewhouse Theatre. The venue had been

:58:05.:58:07.

threatened with closer but is now to be run by a community group. I think

:58:08.:58:13.

it is great. Now we have got a mountain to climb. There is a lot to

:58:14.:58:16.

do. Nick Clegg it came to the West. He

:58:17.:58:19.

stopped by in the Lib Dem seed of Bristol West and Chilton on to

:58:20.:58:25.

answer questions from the public. Labourers selected its candidate for

:58:26.:58:28.

Bath, only 18. In his first interview, he showed signs of being

:58:29.:58:34.

a good addition. Who is your serial, Tony Blair or Tony Ben? There are

:58:35.:58:39.

both fantastic politicians! Oh, you are going to be on the politics show

:58:40.:58:44.

for years to come! Well, let us young things discussed

:58:45.:58:50.

that. What is the appropriate age to become an MP? Well, I think that he

:58:51.:58:57.

showed a wise head on young shoulders and there are many of

:58:58.:59:01.

those around. We have lots of in Dom I can MPs. When I was 18, I thought

:59:02.:59:08.

my father was a fool. When I was 25, I was amazed at how much he had

:59:09.:59:14.

learned in seven years. 18 is a good age to go to the pub and smoke a

:59:15.:59:22.

cigarette. 16 is too young to vote. Speaker I have tried to reduce the

:59:23.:59:27.

voting age to 16 and it passed in January. By the next election I do

:59:28.:59:32.

not know but by the next general election they may be able to vote.

:59:33.:59:36.

Thank you. That is Menzies Campbell have to leave things for this

:59:37.:59:38.

afternoon, or this morning, because that is it for their West this week

:59:39.:59:45.

and this year. `` that is it from us. We are going to have to leave

:59:46.:59:49.

this. Thank you for entering into the festive spirit. If you want to

:59:50.:59:54.

watch this part of the programme again, you will find it on the BBCi

:59:55.:59:56.

player. Tomorrow, the House of Commons will

:59:57.:59:58.

pay its tributes to Nelson Mandela. Our nation has lost its greatest

:59:59.:00:22.

son. Our people have lost a father. The first thing I ever did that

:00:23.:00:48.

involved an issue or policy, or politics, was protest against

:00:49.:00:49.

apartheid. I think his greatest legacy, to

:00:50.:01:01.

South Africa and to the world, is the emphasis which he has always put

:01:02.:01:10.

on the need for a conciliation, on the importance of human rights. He

:01:11.:01:19.

also made us understand that we can change the world. We can change the

:01:20.:01:23.

world by changing attitudes, by changing perceptions. For this

:01:24.:01:28.

reason, I would like to pay him tribute as a great human being, who

:01:29.:01:39.

raised the standard of humanity Thank you for the gift of Madiba.

:01:40.:01:48.

Thank you for what he has enabled us to know we can become.

:01:49.:01:58.

We are joined now by the Labour MP Diane Abbott. You met Mr Mandela not

:01:59.:02:07.

one after he was released from prison in 1990. He went as an

:02:08.:02:12.

election observer for the first one person, one-vote in South Africa. I

:02:13.:02:17.

would guess, of all the people you met in your life, you must have been

:02:18.:02:20.

the most impressive and biggest influence? He was extraordinary He

:02:21.:02:26.

had just come out of prison, 28 years in reason. He had seen a lot

:02:27.:02:30.

of his colleagues tortured, blown up and killed. He was entirely without

:02:31.:02:36.

bitterness. That is what came across. That was key to his

:02:37.:02:41.

achievement, to achieve a peaceful transition. Everybody thought that

:02:42.:02:46.

if you have black majority rule you might have a bloodbath. It's down to

:02:47.:02:48.

Nelson Mandela but didn't happen. I remember FW de Klerk saying that

:02:49.:02:54.

Mandela was the key to getting a peaceful transition. Absolutely the

:02:55.:03:03.

key, an amazing man. London was one of the centres, people talked about

:03:04.:03:09.

it as being the other centre of the anti-apartheid struggle. That

:03:10.:03:11.

anti-apartheid struggle in London, it had an effect on black politics

:03:12.:03:17.

in Britain? Oh, yes. If you were black and politically active at the

:03:18.:03:22.

time, the apartheid struggle, the struggle against white supremacy in

:03:23.:03:26.

South Africa, was very important. Whatever your colour, the

:03:27.:03:30.

anti-apartheid struggle, for our generation, was the political

:03:31.:03:35.

campaign. We have the 50th anniversary of Kennedy's

:03:36.:03:39.

assassination. Mr Mandela's death. We are kind of running out of people

:03:40.:03:43.

that inspired us? I will never forget where I was when I saw him

:03:44.:03:47.

come out of prison, hand-in-hand with the women, I might add. If you

:03:48.:03:52.

have spent your whole teenage years and 20 is boycotting, marching,

:03:53.:03:57.

picketing, to see him actually come out was amazing. Do you think it was

:03:58.:04:05.

more exciting to meet you or the Spice Girls? I think the Spice

:04:06.:04:12.

Girls. What did the Labour backbenchers think about Ed Balls's

:04:13.:04:15.

performance after the Autumn Statement? Luck, Ed Balls is a

:04:16.:04:19.

brilliant man, but I think even he would say that it was not his best

:04:20.:04:23.

performance. But if you look at the polls, the public liked the points

:04:24.:04:28.

he made. The backbenchers were quiet, there was something wrong? I

:04:29.:04:33.

noticed that. It was like a wall of sound, deliberately. They know that

:04:34.:04:38.

under pressure his stamina might come back and it is difficult for

:04:39.:04:41.

him. That is what they were trying to incite. I have had experience

:04:42.:04:47.

first hand, a look at all of these anonymous and sometimes not

:04:48.:04:50.

anonymous quotes in the media. The spinning has begun against him? This

:04:51.:05:02.

is the party of brotherly love, no matter what the Tories say, we can

:05:03.:05:06.

say worse about each other. How could it be that two former aides to

:05:07.:05:12.

Gordon Brown do not like each other? Far be it from me to say. If he

:05:13.:05:17.

wanted to do it, and I'm not saying he does, is Mr Miliband ruthless

:05:18.:05:22.

enough to get rid of Ed Balls? I mean, he got rid of you, he got rid

:05:23.:05:27.

of his brother? One thing you should not do is under estimate Ed

:05:28.:05:32.

Miliband's capacity for ruthlessness. If he feels it is the

:05:33.:05:37.

right thing to do, he will do it. It's not just a matter of... Ed

:05:38.:05:40.

Balls is a big, powerful personality. He's great to interview

:05:41.:05:44.

because he is across his subject, you can have a really good argument

:05:45.:05:48.

with him, a man that knows his brief, his facts. But it's not just

:05:49.:05:53.

about the personality. There is a kind of sense that Labour needs to

:05:54.:05:59.

look forwards more on economic policy. Of course, the standard of

:06:00.:06:03.

living has been hugely successful for Labour. But it needs more than

:06:04.:06:09.

that on economic policy? I think he has been one of the most effective

:06:10.:06:12.

member 's Shadow Cabinet, and he's always associated with the Brown

:06:13.:06:17.

years, where there is always an element about, you were the guys

:06:18.:06:21.

that got it wrong. I think Ed Miliband will be very tempted to

:06:22.:06:25.

replace him with Alistair Darling. The scenario goes like this,

:06:26.:06:29.

Alistair Darling saves the union and then in September he saves the

:06:30.:06:32.

Labour Party. Ultimately, I don t think he would do it. Talk about

:06:33.:06:37.

shifting tectonic plates, it would, wouldn't it? But it is a step too

:06:38.:06:42.

far. Ed Balls would not be too happy. It is not something you would

:06:43.:06:50.

want to do lightly. That sounds a bit of a threat. Not from you. I

:06:51.:06:57.

can't see Ed Balls magnanimously retreating and say, go on, Alistair

:06:58.:07:02.

Darling, take the job I have been after all career. Where do you put

:07:03.:07:07.

him? Do you make him a middle ranking business or welfare

:07:08.:07:11.

secretary? He wouldn't do that. If you sack him, he would retreat to

:07:12.:07:15.

the backbenchers. He might take up knitting and practices piano scales,

:07:16.:07:20.

or he might have a blood feud with Ed Miliband. I don't know which

:07:21.:07:26.

could be. You look back to when he was schools Secretary, you could

:07:27.:07:30.

feel he was constantly fuming. I think he is better inside the tent,

:07:31.:07:32.

looking out, than the other way around. The thing one Labour

:07:33.:07:38.

strategist said to me was that he is too much looking into the rear-view

:07:39.:07:41.

mirror, when it comes to economic policy. He needs to look ahead

:07:42.:07:44.

through the windscreen. That had some resonance? He was at the centre

:07:45.:07:51.

of Labour's economic policy-making from the mid-90s. So it's hard for

:07:52.:07:55.

him but he has to look forward. There is an interesting comparison

:07:56.:08:00.

with 2009. Gordon Brown got in trouble when he said the choice is

:08:01.:08:03.

between Labour investment and Tory cuts. Everybody knew it was between

:08:04.:08:08.

Labour cuts and Tory cuts. In other words, he was not acknowledging

:08:09.:08:12.

reality. With Ed Balls, OK, we can say it is the wrong sort of

:08:13.:08:16.

recovery, but there is a recovery. Does he not need to absorb that

:08:17.:08:19.

punch and say there is a recovery, then people will listen to him?

:08:20.:08:26.

Possibly. We know that the macroeconomics are looking better.

:08:27.:08:29.

We also know people are not experiencing it as a recovery in

:08:30.:08:33.

living standards. No one, not even Tories, really believe that David

:08:34.:08:39.

Cameron knows what it is like for middle-income people to live normal

:08:40.:08:43.

lives. Living standards is particularly powerful because of the

:08:44.:08:46.

composition of the government? Don't go away. This time last year we

:08:47.:08:50.

ambushed our political panel with a quiz. They didn't come out of it

:08:51.:08:54.

smelling of roses, but they did come out rather smelly.

:08:55.:08:58.

Will the coalition still be in place a year from now? Yes. Definitely. I

:08:59.:09:08.

say definitely as well. From now, one year, will we know the date of

:09:09.:09:15.

the European referendum? Yes. No. I say no as well. How much growth will

:09:16.:09:21.

there be? Less than 1%. Father Christmas is less qualified than me,

:09:22.:09:26.

but I will go for one. I will go for a quarter of that. 0.4%. Sorry, a

:09:27.:09:35.

third of that. I am with you, and 1%. We didn't do too badly. What

:09:36.:09:40.

will growth be next year? I will remind you, the OBR has upgraded to

:09:41.:09:47.

2.4%. Better stick with the OBR got it wrong last year. Well, they went

:09:48.:09:52.

down in March and then went back in December. I'm going to go under and

:09:53.:09:57.

claim credit where it's higher. I'm going to say 1%. Deliberately get it

:09:58.:10:04.

wrong. Given our record, if we say there is going to be spectacular

:10:05.:10:07.

growth, does it mean we're going to go into recession? There is

:10:08.:10:14.

incentive to be cautious. 2%. 2 4%, because the housing market in London

:10:15.:10:19.

is rocketing. It would be closer to 3% and 2.4, mark my words. We'll Ed

:10:20.:10:24.

Balls be Shadow Chancellor by this time next year? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes,

:10:25.:10:36.

I value my life. Will UKIP mean the European elections, by which I mean

:10:37.:10:39.

have the highest percentage of the vote? Yes. Second behind Labour

:10:40.:10:50.

Second behind Labour. Will Alex Salmond win the independence

:10:51.:10:53.

referendum? No, but it will be closer than we think. No, unless

:10:54.:10:58.

they do something catastrophic like let Cameron debate him. Too close to

:10:59.:11:07.

call. Controversial. How many Romanians and Bulgarians will come

:11:08.:11:12.

to Britain in 2014? Far fewer than anyone thinks. The entire population

:11:13.:11:20.

of Romania and Bulgaria, like Nigel Farage thanks. I'll go with that,

:11:21.:11:24.

I'm confident. A change of tone for your magazine. Not many will come,

:11:25.:11:30.

but a lot here already will normalise and be counted into

:11:31.:11:34.

figures. Too many for most right-wing commentators. I think

:11:35.:11:40.

quite a few will come, but not the kind of numbers that made such a

:11:41.:11:46.

huge difference. This time, everybody is open. They do like to

:11:47.:11:53.

speak English, that is the reason they want to come. We'll all three

:11:54.:11:57.

of you still be here by this time next year? Yes. Would you recommend

:11:58.:12:05.

that? Yes, keep them. And he has lovely boots. Shiny red boots. If

:12:06.:12:10.

you can keep affording me, I will be here. I hope so, it sounds like you

:12:11.:12:19.

have a firing squad outside. I hope so, maybe you will find some true

:12:20.:12:27.

talent. Very pragmatic, aren't they? Let me put this to you, I think you

:12:28.:12:32.

will agree. The coalition will not break now, this side of the election

:12:33.:12:38.

next year? There will not be... They will not go their own ways by this

:12:39.:12:43.

time next year? Of next year, maybe just after. Early 2015. This side of

:12:44.:12:51.

the election? What is the UKIP view? I don't think there is an advantage

:12:52.:12:57.

to either of them. If the Lib Dems pulled out, they would look like

:12:58.:13:00.

there were a lodger in the Tory house of government. I think it

:13:01.:13:04.

would suit the Lib Dems to break just before the election. I think

:13:05.:13:08.

that is what Vince Cable wants to do. I don't think it is what Nick

:13:09.:13:11.

Clegg would like to do. The Tories would love it. They would have all

:13:12.:13:18.

of the toys to themselves. Yellow marker they would look like the

:13:19.:13:21.

grown-ups. The problem for Vince Cable is that he's not the force

:13:22.:13:25.

that used to be after his temper tantrum at the Conference.

:13:26.:13:29.

I will be back with the Daily Politics next week. If Santer gives

:13:30.:13:36.

you a diary in your stocking, pencil in Sunday the 20th of January, the

:13:37.:13:42.

first Sunday Politics of 2014. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the

:13:43.:13:49.

Sunday Politics. Unless it is Christmas. And New Year.

:13:50.:13:51.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS