Browse content similar to 30/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
Can Ed Davey keep the lights on Can he ever deliver cheaper power? Or | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
the investment our energy market badly needs? We'll be asking the | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
Energy Secretary. Why has the anti-independence Better | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
Together campaign suddenly got the jitters? We'll be quizzing Scottish | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
Secretary Alistair Carmichael. And whatever happened to the BNP? | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
They could be heading And whatever happened to the BNP? | :01:02. | :01:12. | |
A survey shows that we are hn a confident | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
which runs the capital's Fire Service. The Mayor has a political | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
move designed to silence his critics. | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
And with me, as always, the most useless political panel in the | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
business, who we're contractually obliged to insult on a weekly basis. | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
But not today, because they are our chosen ones. They are the brightest | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
and the best, we've even hired a plane to prove it: Helen Lewis, | :01:39. | :01:45. | |
Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt who'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
Right, left and centre of the Westminster Establishment have been | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
unanimous in saying there would be no chance of monetary union with the | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
rest of the UK for an independent Scotland. Then an unnamed minister | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
spoke to our Nick saying that wasn't necessarily so, and that made the | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
Guardian's front page. The SNP were delighted and the anti-independence | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
campaign rushed to limit the damage. The faux pas has come at a time when | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
the Better Together side was already beginning to worry that things were | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
going the Nationalists' way. Let's speak to a leading light in that | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
campaign, Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael, who's in | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
Aberdeen at the Scottish Liberal Democrat spring conference. | :02:27. | :02:37. | |
Alistair Carmichael, why is there a sense of crisis now engulfing the no | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
campaign? I think that is something of an overstatement. What you have | :02:44. | :02:51. | |
got is, I am getting my own voice played back in my ear. What you have | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
got here is one story from an unnamed source, a minister who we | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
are told, we do not know for certain, who has speculated on the | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
possibility of a currency union actually happening. I do not think | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
that is helpful but it is not any big deal. You have to measure it | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
against what we have got publicly named on the record. We have got a | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
detailed intervention of the Governor of the Bank of England | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
Mark Carney, outlining all the reasons why a currency union would | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
not be a good idea. And then you have got independent advice from the | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
permanent Secretary of the Treasury himself saying actually, this is | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
such a bad idea, that I would never advise a chancellor to go ahead with | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
it. You set one against the other and you see that pretty much the | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
force of argument is very much against those of us who want to | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
remain in the United Kingdom. All the minister was saying is come the | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
day, if Westminster is negotiating with a new independent Scotland a | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
deal is to be done, Faslane where the nuclear deterrent is, there is | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
nowhere else in the UK to put that is, certainly not for the next 0 | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
years, a deal would be done, the nuclear weapons would stay in | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
Faslane and Scotland would get a monetary union with the rest of the | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
UK. That is perfectly plausible isn't it? No, I'm sorry, it is | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
simply not plausible. The economy is more important than anything else. | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
What you have had here is very clear advice from the treasury officials | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
saying it is not in the economic best interests of the people of | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
England Wales, Northern Ireland any more than it is in the interests of | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
people in Scotland. Where do you put the nukes? The outcome will not | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
change. Where do you put the nukes when the Nationalists kick you out? | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
I do not believe that will be a problem because I do not believe | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
Scotland will vote for independence. But you might be asking the Scottish | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
Nationalists, who are apparently promoting this, are they then not | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
sincere when they say they want to remove nuclear weapons from | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
Scotland? It seems to be a curious mixed message. As you know, I have | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
not got the Nationalists, I have got you, so let me ask you the | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
questions. You are widely seen as running a campaign which is too | :05:17. | :05:28. | |
negative. The Nationalists are narrowing the gap in the poll found | :05:29. | :05:30. | |
you are squabbling among yourselves. This campaign is going pear shaped, | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
isn't it? No, let's deal with the polls. All the polls show that the | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
people of Scotland want to stay as part of the United Kingdom. Yes | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
there were a couple of polls last week that said the gap was narrowing | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
a little. The most recent poll of all, the poll on Wednesday which | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
actually polled people's voting intentions on the question come | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
September showed that only 28% of people in Scotland were prepared to | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
say they were voting yes, as opposed to the 42% who were on our side of | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
the argument saying they wish to remain part of the UK. That poll | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
said women were skewing towards a yes vote and it showed that the | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
don't knows were beginning to skew towards a yes vote. That is why you | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
yourself wrote this morning that if your campaign does not get its act | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
together, you would be sleepwalking into a split to quote yourself. No, | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
to quote myself I said it was not impossible that the Nationalists | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
could win that. That is absolutely the case. The biggest danger for the | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
United Kingdom camp in this whole argument is people will look at the | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
polls. They show us with a healthy lead consistently. As a consequence, | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
they think this will not happen It can happen. I have got to tell | :06:51. | :07:06. | |
everybody that it could, not least because the Nationalists have an | :07:07. | :07:08. | |
enormous advantage in terms of the amount of money they have at their | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
disposal to buy momentum. They will be advertising in cinemas, in | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
football matches and on social media. We have got to realise what | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
is coming and as a consequence, we have got to get our arguments in | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
place and our campaign as sharp as theirs. Thank you for joining us. | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
Nick, this unnamed minister who gave you the story, did he or she know | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
what they were doing? I do not think they were sitting there wanting to | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
blast this out there, because the agreed government position was there | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
will not be a currency union, if there is a vote for independence. | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
But what I was managing to get hold of whether thoughts that are in the | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
deeper recesses of people's minds, when they are looking at the polls | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
which have been narrowing, or there was Alistair Carmichael quite | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
rightly says, the pro-UK vote is still ahead. People are looking down | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
the line, what would happen after the 18th of September this year not | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
just the next day but the next year, in those very lengthy | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
negotiations that would take place, when there would be a lot of moving | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
places on the table. You talked about Faslane, what would happen | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
then and that is what I managed to get hold of, that there are thoughts | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
about all those pieces that would be on the table. It is not surprising | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
that some in Westminster think that. Let's take the Shadow | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
Chancellor Danny Alexander at his word, they do not want a monetary | :08:38. | :08:44. | |
union. But if they are faced with giving the Scots a monetary union in | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
a post-independent Scotland, or having to remove the nuclear | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
submarines from Faslane, where they have nowhere else to put them, | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
probably except North America, there is a deal to be done. I think | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
whatever minister gave Nick his story is probably onto something. If | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
the Scots vote for independence of course a deal will be done about the | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
currency because it is not in London's interests to have a | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
rancorous relationship with Edinburgh. Even if the deal is not | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
done, how does one country stop another country using its. That is | :09:18. | :09:28. | |
different. All London can really do is prevent Scottish intervention on | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
the monetary policy committee. The interest rate would be set without | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
any regard to the Scottish interest. Even that is only a fatal problem if | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
the Scottish economy becomes so out of sync with the UK economy. Except | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
it is a problem for Scotland's financial system because if you go | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
down that route there is no means of injecting liquidity into the | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
financial system in the financial crisis. That is why they would | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
rather have a monetary union. Is it not remarkable to hear the Secretary | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
of State for Scotland here that the Nationalists are spending too much | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
money, when he represents a campaign which brings together all the major | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
parties in the UK and all the resources of the UK and he is | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
bleating about the Nationalists having more to spend? I did think | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
that was a funny line and it was in the Observer. It lays into Alex | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
Salmond's plucky upstart idea that he's taking on this big | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
establishment. I thought it was a bizarre open goal, I am losing my | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
football metaphors, forgive me. The polls are so in favour of a no | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
vote. But the trend has been going their way. We have six months left | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
which is not enough to close the gap. They always tell you Alex | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
Salmond is a strong finisher. The plucky upstarts have this funding | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
from a millionaire. The Better Together campaign are being | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
incredibly cautious about where they get their money from. They do not | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
want to go to the City of London Police say, give us a couple of | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
million. Being Energy Secretary used to be a | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
bit of a dawdle, especially when North Sea oil was flowing. Now it's | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
very much a hot potato as Ed Davey has been finding out the hard way. | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
High household energy bills have been top of his inbox. The big six | :11:19. | :11:27. | |
energy companies account for 95 of the market. Off Johnson -- Ofgem | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
said there had been possible tacit coordination in the timing of price | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
rises and ordered an investigation by the competition and markets | :11:40. | :11:41. | |
authorities which will look at whether the big six should be broken | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
up. Where does that leave investment? The boss of Centrica | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
made the point that you would not spend money building an extension if | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
you knew in two years time your home might be bulldozed. The spare | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
margin, that is what is left in the generating system to cope with a | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
surge in demand on a cold winter's night, is due to drop to | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
historically low levels in 2016 according to Ofgem. Normally at | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
around 15%, capacity could drop to 2% after the next election and that | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
could lead to a surge in the sale of candles. Now where is that light | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
switch? Energy Secretary Ed Davey, joins me | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
now. Oh, we have found the light switch! The gap between a peak | :12:30. | :12:37. | |
winter demand and generating capacity could possibly reach 2 | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
next winter or the winter after We will keep the lights on, that is for | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
clear. When we came to power, energy investment had been relatively low. | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
The Labour Party had failed to deal with the energy deficit. From day | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
one we have been pushing up massively. Investment has been | :12:56. | :13:03. | |
billion a year. Last year was a record. Spare capacity is now | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
heading to 2%. Why are you allowing it to get that no? Because we have | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
been increasing investment massively, last was a record level, | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
we will be able to keep the lights on. Some of the figures you are | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
showing suggests we are not doing anything. We have not only done | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
enough in our last three years, we have put in measures to stimulate | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
huge amounts of extra investment. We have the healthiest pipeline | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
investment in our history. We will come onto investment in a minute. | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
None of that change is the fact that we will be close to 2% next winter | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
or the winter after that. We have one major power station shut down, | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
or a cold winter away from having major problems with energy supply. | :13:51. | :13:58. | |
It is still 2%. Let me explain. The figures assume we are not doing | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
anything but we are doing something. Look at the National Grid. They are | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
able to bring in energy from interconnector is because we are | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
connected up to Europe. They are able to create a reserve so if we | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
get to problems, they will have a mothballed plant they can bring on. | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
You have not agreed with anybody on that. The decision was taken last | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
July. But no supplier has agreed to under mothball its plant. We would | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
not expect them to do that yet. Our plan is in place. On time, on | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
schedule, as we already thought it would be. But you have not got a | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
single agreement with a power supply who has mothballed plant to on the | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
ball it. We did not expect to. Our plan is in me National Grid will do | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
an election to allow those plants to come on. There is a huge amount of | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
interest. There are gigawatts of power that can come in to come on. | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
There is a huge amount of interest. There are gigawatts of power that | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
can come into that auction and we are not other measures we can take | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
and that is just in the short term. We have a plan for the medium-term. | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
We will be running the first auction for new capacity. The final decision | :15:19. | :15:34. | |
will be taken and we have learned lessons from what they do in North | :15:35. | :15:36. | |
America and other European countries so we can stay minute mothballed | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
plants and new plants to be built. I am absolutely clear there is not a | :15:40. | :15:48. | |
problem. You only build 9000 megawatts of new capacity from | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
2011-13. You have closed almost 22,000 megawatts. Why would you be | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
so cavalier with a nation's power supply? The last Government was | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
cavalier because we knew those figures are happening because we've | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
known for a long time a lot of power plants were coming to the end of | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
their life, coal power plants, nuclear power plants, and we had to | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
increase the rate of investment but we... That shows clearly you are | :16:14. | :16:21. | |
closing twice as much, you have to date, closed twice as much as you | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
have opened, hence the lack of spare capacity. We knew a lot of them are | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
coming back for the last Labour Government knew. We have increased | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
the new so that's increasing significantly, far faster than under | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
the last Government but also remember, you were very wrong at the | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
beginning of your clip, margins at 15% are very own usual. They are | :16:40. | :16:47. | |
historically high. The average margin was 25%. That was wasting a | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
huge amount of money. But since privatisation, we've had margins | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
between 5% and 10%. Normally, high margins historically, which is | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
costly. Now we will have historically low margins. People | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
have to pay for that, so we make sure the lights stay on, we have a | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
short-term policy I have described to you, and medium-term policy and a | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
long-term policy. The long-term policy comes huge investment between | :17:16. | :17:16. | |
nuclear and optional, policy comes huge investment between | :17:17. | :17:40. | |
on. Ofgem, Independent, says the chance of blackouts by 2016 has | :17:41. | :17:48. | |
increased fourfold under your watch. What they say, if you read the | :17:49. | :17:56. | |
report, if we did nothing, they would be problems. But we have been | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
working with Ofgem. We have been working with National Grid, and we | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
have agreed that there will be a reserve capacity which can come on | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
if we get to the peak for the Best not just on the supply side but | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
demand and into connectors. You talk about industry having to move to | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
off-peak times. We say, they are prepared to that you paid for it, | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
and it makes commercial sense for them, it's a sensible thing for the | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
Wii will pay them to move to off-peak. You have huge diesel parks | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
for the you talk as if that something new but it's been around | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
for a long time for the 200 these contracts out there. We want to | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
expand that. You have hundreds of diesel generators to click into | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
haven't you? There's a whole range of generators. Diesel generation, | :18:44. | :18:51. | |
dirty fuel. There's a of mothballed gas which can come. If you look at | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
the increase of the independent generators, many companies, a range | :18:57. | :19:06. | |
of power companies who are building a new power station and want to | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
build new ones. This is a healthy situation. You say you made over 100 | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
billion new investment between now and the end of the decade to restore | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
capacity and meet renewable targets. Now you have referred the | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
Big Six to the competition commission, how much of that to | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
expect to come from them? We will see what the market delivers. We | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
have always expected independent generators to do a lot more than is | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
happening in the past. How much from the Big Six? It's not for me to say | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
it's going to be best from that company. The real interest is we | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
have huge amounts of companies wanting to invest. If you look at | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
independent analysis, they say Britain is one of the best places to | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
invest in energy in the world. We are the worldly do in offshore | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
wind, one of the best for renewables, one of the only | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
countries getting nuclear power stations. Rather than the bleaker | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
picture you're painting, the reverse is the case. We are seeing an | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
investment renaissance. You say that. Let me give you some facts. | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
Under this Government, only one gas plant has been under construction, | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
only one started under your watch for the others were done under | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
Labour. You have none in the pipeline. The Big Six has pulled | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
back from further investment including new offshore wind | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
investment and none of what you re talking about will come before 020 | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
anyway. That's simply not true. The balance reserves I've talked about, | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
the reserve planned: Making sure the mothballed plant could come on, I | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
capacity market incentivising new power, will happen way before 2 20, | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
so that's not true. But doesn't answer the extra capacity. You have | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
no answer between now and the end of this decade. We have three answers. | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
Let me repeat them for you. I said permanent, not the short-term ones | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
you are putting in place to try to do with spare capacity. We have a | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
short-term plan, of course, that's very sensible. Medium-term plan | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
auctioning for new power stations. That can lead to both mothballed | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
plant and when you plant, permanent plant being built, and the long term | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
plan, to stimulator long-term investment, some of which will be | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
built and come online way before the end of the decade. I'm afraid, it's | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
a far rosier picture than your painting. It's also far more | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
expensive, too. Let's look at how you are replacing relatively cheap | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
energy with much more expensive sources of energy. Wholesale prices | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
is ?50 per megawatt. You have done a deal with EDF, nuclear, ?92 50. You | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
have indexed it for 30 years at 2012 prices. | :21:53. | :22:03. | |
All of that puts up our bills. First of all, the support of the low | :22:04. | :22:12. | |
Carbon is just 4% on bills. What has been driving peoples bills over the | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
last decade has been wholesale gas prices. No one knows what guys | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
prices are going to be in the future -- gas prices. When you look at the | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
Ukraine and other market indicators, many people are worried that by the | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
time nuclear power stations come online for example, the price of gas | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
could be significantly higher. You have indexed linked that for them by | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
the time you get any power from this, it'll be up to ?125 per | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
megawatt hour. The price of gas been going up far higher. Not recently. | :22:43. | :22:51. | |
Despite Iran, Ukraine, Libya, not recently. The long-term forecast, | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
Andrew, it's going to go higher but more importantly than that, this is | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
an area we could disagree on but it's very important that power | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
plants pay the cost of pollution. In those prizes, all of those prices | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
except the wholesale out a steep price, you have those power stations | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
paying the cost of air pollution. If gas and coal where paying the proper | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
carbon price, you would see nuclear and renewables as competitive. It's | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
very important that we ensure that power plants pay the cost of the | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
pollution. When you were last on this programme to talk about this in | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
May 2012, you said that the price of offshore wind was coming down fast. | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
You told me it would be down by 30% in the next few years. That figure | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
is 155, and for the deeper stuff, it's going to be ?165. That's the | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
first year of a limit control framework which had it coming down. | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
If you talk to many companies, Siemens had invested with their | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
partners, ?310 million with two new factories. They are talking about | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
lower prices because what they are saying to me is that, rather than | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
the 30% cost reductions I talked about, I was wrong, they are | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
targeting 40%. You said prices would come down 30% in two years for that | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
that was 2012 and they have gone higher. I absolutely did not say | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
that. Your exact quote was 30% in the next few years. Your exact few | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
years. You said two years, I sell a few years. I haven't changed a | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
single moment that you said two years, I said a few years. That s | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
what we are projecting. They will come down. You have to invest in | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
technology. Let me give you this example. When people invest in | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
mobile phones to start off with they were expensive, and they were | :24:48. | :24:56. | |
clunky and the costs were going down for the one final question. You put | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
the Big Six into investigation because they made a 5% return on | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
investment and you're done a deal with EDF, nuclear power, which will | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
guarantee them a return of 10% 15% every year for 30 years. Doesn't | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
that underline the shambles of your energy policy? You have mixed up two | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
separate things. The 5% Ofgem are talking about is on the supply | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
retail side. The percentage you quoted for EDF is in the wholesale | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
side of two different markets. It's the same return. It's not. You are | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
comparing apples and pears, dangerous thing to do. You have to | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
do have a high return but in the retail market, with a 5% stake, | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
there is less risk, says a low return. Ed Davey, I'm sorry we | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
haven't got more time. Thank you. Have me back. We will. Whatever | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
happened to the BNP? The far right party looked as if it was on the | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
verge of a major breakthrough not so long ago. Now it seems to be going | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
nowhere. In a moment we'll be speaking to the party's press | :26:04. | :26:05. | |
officer, Simon Derby. But first here's Giles. His report contains | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
some flash photography. For a moment in 2009 Nick Griffin and the BNP had | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
a spring in their step, smiling at their success of winning two seats | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
in the European Parliament. They already were the second largest | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
party in a London council and had a London Assembly seat. Despite | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
concerns from mainstream parties their vote was up. Our vote | :26:22. | :26:33. | |
increased up to 943,000. Savouring success was brief that morning as | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
anti-far right protestors invaded and egged the press conference and | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
forced the BNP MEPs into a hasty retreat. What is more significant is | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
that, in the years since, that retreat has been matched internally, | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
electorally and in the minds of those who had given them that vote. | :26:47. | :26:57. | |
For a number of years they were performing better than the UK | :26:58. | :26:59. | |
Independence Party and other smaller parties like the Greens and respect. | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
The problem for the BNP if they didn't make any inroads into other | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
groups, they didn't go into the middle class, the young, they didn't | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
go into women and ethnic minorities for obvious reasons. So the party | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
was quickly handicapped from the outset. Not that you would have | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
known that at the outset. In 20 6 in Barking and Dagenham, the party won | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
12 council seats against a back drop of discontent with the ruling Labour | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
council and Government and picking up on immigration and housing | :27:27. | :27:35. | |
concerns in the borough. It's because of all the different | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
nationality people moving in the area, they are taking over | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
everything. My Nan and grandad lived there all their lives. I thought I | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
would vote for BNP. Hopefully, yeah, they will get elected over here | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
When I came to Barking, Dagenham and Redbridge in 2006, the BNP with a | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
second largest party in one of the local councils. You can even find | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
non-white people who voted BNP. Now they have no counsellors, and even | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
though can when you talk to people, you will find among the older white | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
working-class population concerned that the BNP claim to represent | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
everyone says they are nowhere. So what happened to that about? On | :28:16. | :28:22. | |
behalf of all the people in Britain, we in Barking have not just beaten, | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
that we have smashed the attempt of extremist outsiders. The local | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
Labour MP was as clear in 2010 as she is now. I always knew if we | :28:32. | :28:39. | |
could manage to ensure that wasn't a single BNP councillor left on the | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
council and I won my seat, it would stop the process of disintegration. | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
But what beat the BNP here in 2 10 was a mobilisation of the Labour | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
vote. And today it is not hard to find the same discontent over the | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
same issues. It's just finding a new political home. A couple of years | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
ago, I used to vote Labour. Obviously, they haven't done nothing | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
around here as much now, with jobs and unemployment, and housing and | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
stuff like that about, basically, BNP ain't around here no more. Now | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
it's more about UKIP and I believe that these UKIP are saying are true. | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
If I thought BNP would make the difference, I would vote but is not | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
in the people behind them. They all get bandaged with the same brush. | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
I'm going to vote UKIP because BNP didn't get anywhere. What they say | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
in UKIP, with a bit of luck, they will get somewhere. It's not racist | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
but it's just that our kids haven't got jobs. Nick Griffin's dislike of | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
UKIP is mutual but his once fellow MEP Andrew Brons who's now left the | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
party issued a statement to this programme saying BNP failure is | :29:44. | :29:52. | |
closer to home post 2010. It was after that election discontent arose | :29:53. | :29:54. | |
amongst sections of the membership. Those members who left or were | :29:55. | :30:11. | |
thrown out by Nick Griffin had already felt let down by his | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
appearance on Question Time. It was a national platform for the BNP | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
something they felt they had the right to through electoral success. | :30:19. | :30:28. | |
This was no big breakthrough moment for Griffin, unlike it was for John | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
Marina pen when he appeared on national television in France. He | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
went on to mobilise a national force. Despite there being some | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
voters tuned to their message, for the BNP, becoming such a force here | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
has never looked quite so difficult. And Simon Derby from the BNP joins | :30:46. | :30:53. | |
me now. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It was not long ago you | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
had 55 councillors up and down the land, you now have two. You are on | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
the brink of extinction. That is not true. I have watched the film. It is | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
very negative as I would expect The party has faced a few problems. The | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
main thing to bear in mind is that the issues, the problems the country | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
faces have gone away. We won nearly a million votes in the European | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
elections. We brought that mandate to the establishment and we were | :31:26. | :31:35. | |
denied. Let's face it, we would -- were denied any opportunity to take | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
place in the political apparatus. You have been destroyed by a pincer | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
movement. UKIP has taken away or more respectable voters and the EDL | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
is better at anti-Muslim protests and street thuggery. The EDL is not | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
a political party. I take your point about UKIP. The power structure took | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
a look at us and so we were a threat to power. We were not making this | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
stuff up, we meant it and they have co-opted our message. This shameless | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
promotion of UKIP, you have evenly had him presenting the weather on | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
this programme. That is unbelievable. That was a joke. | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
Across Europe, in France, your sister party the National front will | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
probably do very well. You can see the rise of the far right across | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
Western Europe so why are you in decline? We are not far right, I | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
reject that label. How would you describe yourselves nationalists and | :32:40. | :32:57. | |
Patriots. Why are you in decline and other similar parties to yours are | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
on the rise? You mentioned Barking and it is very interesting because I | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
was involved in that campaign. What Margaret Hodge and her Labour Party | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
did, they replaced the white indigenous population in Barking and | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
Dagenham with Africans, that is how they won that election. For that was | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
true, you would be doing well elsewhere. You have now got a leader | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
who is declared bankrupt and your party is heading for bankruptcy | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
No, it is not. It is over. You would like that. What I would like is | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
irrelevant. Your membership is in deep decline. All parties have highs | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
and lows. In 2009 they said it is no way you will win any seats in the | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
European election. We did. And then you lost them. Parties win and lose | :33:47. | :33:55. | |
seats. The Lib Dems will be annihilated. You deny you are far | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
right. People used to say the BNP were neo-Nazis. Then Nick Griffin | :34:02. | :34:12. | |
appeared with Golden Dawn. They are not neo-Nazis, they are Nazis. It is | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
part and parcel of being in politics. You have to appear with | :34:18. | :34:24. | |
them? Of course we do, we have to speak to ordinary people. I am | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
perfectly happy speaking to you at the BBC, the BBC have a terrible | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
reputation but I am happy to be here. Mr Griffin has asked me, when | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
will the BBC apologised for trying to put him in prison twice, merely | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
for exposing a Muslim scandal. Why can't Nick Griffin appear on TV and | :34:45. | :34:52. | |
self? He would not appear. He was in Syria. He literally flew out to | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
Damascus and prevented a war. We decided we would not interfere in | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
Syria. The BBC never covered that. Please do not make out we are just | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
an ordinary political party you cover like everybody else. It is | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
completely different. All the signs are, membership, performance at the | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
polls, performance at elections the problem with your leadership is you | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
are now going the way of the National front, heading for | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
oblivion. As I said to you before, that may be the case, if all the | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
problems we had not highlighted and how we got a huge vote so many years | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
ago, six years ago now, five years ago, in 2009, if they were not | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
around. These things are only going to get worse. We are looking at a | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
prototype Islamic republic that is going to be set up in this country. | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
That will lead to huge problems Only the British National Party are | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
prepared to say that and deal with it. Word leaked out that I was doing | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
this interview with you before the weekend. Isn't it a sign of how | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
irrelevant you now are that not a single person has turned up at New | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
Broadcasting House this morning to protest? Used to be hundreds would | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
turn up when we said the BNP were on. That is the left for you, they | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
put the clocks forward and they could not be bothered to get out of | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
bed. I think they are still in bed. Thank you. | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
Politics Scotland. Coming up here in Politics Scotland. Coming up here in | :36:29. | :36:44. | |
Welcome to the part of the show just for us here in the West. Thhs week, | :36:45. | :36:52. | |
will you have enough to livd on when you retire. We revealed the results | :36:53. | :36:59. | |
of a survey. And from pensions to students. We go back to University | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
and joined the students union. These people are campaigning, but most of | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
their friends won't vote. Why are we not interested in democracy | :37:12. | :37:13. | |
anymore? On the show, two men, Lord Tom | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
King, who served as Defence Secretary under Margaret Th`tcher, | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
and the Liberal Democrat MP Steve Webb, who is the pensions mhnister. | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
We will first talk about thd situation in the Crimea. A lot of | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
people talking about how we need to reverse the spending cuts. What you | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
think? It is a tough time now. I think that the plans that wd have | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
made are sensible. As long `s the reserves can back up the arly. | :37:50. | :37:58. | |
Would Vladimir Putin have done what he has done if you were in charge? | :37:59. | :38:06. | |
Crimea is a very special case. I saw were millions of Russians wdre | :38:07. | :38:17. | |
remembered for defending, adages important to see it, not as an | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
important part of a campaign to take on the west. We need to be ready and | :38:25. | :38:31. | |
make clear what will happen if he woke `` went into the rest of the | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
Ukraine. Would you agree with that? Would you fight for Crimea? | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
I think we need to remember that we are no longer the Wolves's | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
policeman. `` the policeman of the world. We do not have an empire | :38:50. | :38:57. | |
anymore. We need to look at cyber attacks. I think going back on | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
spending cuts would be a mistake. Are you worried about retirdment? | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
The government have decided to sort out our pensions. A survey shows the | :39:09. | :39:16. | |
challenge. 1000 people betwden 0 and 65 were survey. 30% werd worried | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
about their financial securhty in retirement. The figure was higher | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
for those in their 30s and those in lower paid jobs. | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
We'll be pensions revolution change that? | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
When the government announcdd changes to the pension systdm, | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
encouraging the newly retirdd to buy a new car was probably what they | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
were not expecting. The image they preferred was of the state becoming | :39:49. | :39:58. | |
less nanny driven. When the Chancellor talked `bout | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
rolling down the state, it went down well. There is a patronising view | :40:04. | :40:10. | |
that pensions cannot be trusted with their own pension. I reject that. | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
People who have worked hard and saved hard all their lives should be | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
trusted with their own finances That is what we will now do. Trust | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
the people. At the moment, everyone is saving | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
into a contribution pension, can take 25% of the pot as a tax`free | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
lump sum. With the rest of the money, most people have to buy an | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
annuity, which provides a monthly income until death. The average | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
pension pot is ?36,000. Frol April 2016, most people will not have to | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
buy an annuity, most may usd it to pay off their mortgage. Thex may be | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
taxed. But many people do not have a pension. Like this woman, who works | :41:02. | :41:09. | |
with the elderly. I have no pension at all. I have not even thotght | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
about it. I have not always worked full`time. You do not think about | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
the pension. I was married `nd I was relying on my husband's pension | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
From this week, that is changing. She and other staff will be put into | :41:27. | :41:33. | |
pension schemes unless they opt out. Experts are telling thdm more. | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
Your employer will contribute, the taxman will contribute. | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
Two years ago, enrolment began with big firms. Now this measure is being | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
expanded and Helen is happy. All we heard was that everyone will | :41:53. | :41:59. | |
be enrolled automatically. We were thinking that we have no choice | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
about this. But now it has been explained to us, it seems rdally | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
good. It seems a good option. For the same reasons that wd never | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
started saving, that it is `ll too complicated, will hopefully mean | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
that once we put in a pension, we will stay there. We will put people | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
in the right place, they will start saving for retirement. | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
Maybe not a new car now, but perhaps something more expensive on | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
retirement. Brian Hill is an independent | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
financial adviser. He is here to help us about pensions. But first, | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
we will talk to the Minister. ?36,000 is the average penshon. What | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
with that lie if you had to buy an investment? | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
A simple rule is that for ?0000 in your pot, you get ?1 a week. See you | :42:59. | :43:05. | |
would get ?36 per week for ` pension. It is not enough for most | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
people. That is why we are doing what you saw in the story, Helen had | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
no pension, she may never h`ve one into one. She automatically got put | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
into one, she would have to opt out. That is the way that it works. | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
If it is ?36,000 or more, you might as well take the money, go for a | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
cruise around the world and then worry about things. | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
We are trying to give peopld a choice. The state pension h`s been | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
simplified. It will be just above means testing. If that is all you | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
want to live on, that is fine. The pension is being set above the | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
benefit level, but the basic level will get you clear of the bdnefits, | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
and then you can choose whether to spend it throughout your retirement | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
or early on. But it will be your choice. | :44:08. | :44:14. | |
You are from a generation of final salary pension schemes. Is ht sad | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
that our young people are bding denied that? One of the big worries | :44:18. | :44:25. | |
is how poor the annuities work, because with the interest r`tes the | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
whole reward now which used to be much higher, it is a major problem | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
now that we face. When the country was much poorer, | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
now we are a rich country and we cannot give people these pensions. | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
One of the things that we are talking about which is excellent is | :44:49. | :44:55. | |
making people have a pension. It was classic in the clip that thd woman | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
had not been able to do so xet, like many people. | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
In broad terms, many of my colleagues are very happy that there | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
is more flexibility with pensions and taking money from it. The worry | :45:13. | :45:20. | |
that we have is the implementation. We are concerned to see durhng the | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
Budget that you mentioned that people would no longer have to buy | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
an annuity. That has been the case for 20 years. For those unddr 7 , it | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
applied for everyone. That hs old news. | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
Yes, but as the Chancellor was trying to do, he was trying to | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
simplify the message. Most people did not have the option, if they | :45:47. | :45:53. | |
already had a pension pot to do this. | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
We support the flexibility with financial advice. The idea that you | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
can provide in people 's holes to help people get high qualitx | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
guidance would not hit the lark at all. Most appeal that `` most people | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
that I deal with have three pensions. So if you have all of | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
these different advisers giving you different advice. The answer is as | :46:20. | :46:27. | |
the consult patients of the government said, it has to be high | :46:28. | :46:35. | |
quality advice from people who are qualified. There are a lot of people | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
around. Should this be factored in? | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
People do need help, and thdre are different factors for that. Everyone | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
should have the right for free independent advice, with soleone who | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
talks you through the basics. You then have to go through the choices. | :46:57. | :47:04. | |
People make the decisions incorrectly and then they c`nnot get | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
away from them. Why do we not all have the same | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
pension and then you make your own provision after that? We ard trying | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
to move in that direction whth the state pension, so there is one | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
simple state pension. But wd have built on history, that businesses | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
have given the pensions. Swdeping thataway, we may need to silplify, | :47:29. | :47:35. | |
but we do not want to have several different pensions. So now xour | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
pension will go with you whdn you change jobs. | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
The key problem is the effect on benefits as well. People will start | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
losing their benefits from the pension reforms. | :47:50. | :47:56. | |
From how we feel from getting older, to the concerns of young people | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
David Blunkett was talking to young people this week, saying th`t we | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
should be concerned about the levels of apathy. Students say that they | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
are interested in politics, but are being ignored. | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
You don't often see this on the Westminster Trail. It is a flash | :48:18. | :48:24. | |
mob, designed to get the vote out for the Bristol University tnion | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
elections. But for all the shouting, bribes | :48:31. | :48:41. | |
and... Vote for women. And the weirdness, more and more of | :48:42. | :48:49. | |
today's young are not voting. I have never voted. You have never voted? | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
Many sympathise with a cert`in comedian whose argument agahnst | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
voting has been watched 10 lillion times. It is not that I am not | :49:03. | :49:10. | |
voting out of apathy, it is that I am exhausted from the lies of the | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
political class that have bden going on for generations and has reached | :49:16. | :49:21. | |
fever pitch, where there is a despondent underclass who wdre not | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
represented. The headache for politicians is he | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
may have a point. In 2010, 60 5 of the public voted. A recent survey | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
showed that if a general eldction was held tomorrow, only 41% of | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
people would attend. And in young people, that is only 12%. Wd decided | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
to get to the bottom of all of this by setting up our own stall. | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
They seem untrustworthy. I think a lot of people our age are rdally | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
cynical. We do not trust thd politicians. | :50:01. | :50:08. | |
Hearing the fact that, as a result, people are worse off than they were | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
before is breeding mistrust in not believing in people. When you look | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
at the Budget that came out, it was focused on the older generation | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
So, I think from the point of view of our generation, we listen when | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
people say the idea is that they will put forward. We hear that we | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
are not being included. Some of the MPs are on Twitter, but | :50:35. | :50:41. | |
not any of my local MPs. So they are not being creative in making | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
themselves relevant. It seemed to be more teachers than | :50:45. | :50:51. | |
students who came to hear the Home Secretary talking about apathy. He | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
said it was the fault of thd Coalition Government. Peopld say | :50:55. | :51:02. | |
that maybe we should have compulsory voting like in Australia, btt then | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
they say that a lot of people vote with their feet. When there is a | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
coalition, people are concerned about what change we shall get. I | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
don't want is to have a coalition again. Nobody knows what thdy will | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
get. When they get it, it is not what they voted for. | :51:23. | :51:30. | |
So how do you in gauge the xoung and the poor people? I think we have got | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
to speaking a language that people understand, use more social media. | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
One of the biggest turnout hs that we had was in 1950 and that was not | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
an exciting election, but are `` mattered. People have to know that | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
when they vote, it matters. This is a polling station lhke you | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
have never seen before. There is a tablet on which you can cast your | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
vote. And why not have a chocolate while you are in the blues? But even | :52:05. | :52:12. | |
here, they think that the ttrnout will store below. `` while xou are | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
in the voting booth. There hs the fear that people may never vote if | :52:18. | :52:24. | |
they do not vote now. Here is the vice president of | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
education for the student union White can students not be bothered | :52:31. | :52:39. | |
to vote? In any election? In general elections, I think we are | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
in a negative feedback loop. Young people are not voting, so the things | :52:46. | :52:53. | |
that matter to them are not taken seriously. It is important to look | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
at the first years of this Parliament, people raised the | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
university fees and took aw`y the education maintenance allow`nce | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
Why are they not angry and protesting? There are not a | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
political party who are putting forward things that appeal to young | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
people. They do not offer a different vision. | :53:20. | :53:27. | |
Students in Bristol, people have a very nice life. Is it that they have | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
never had it so good and thdy do not feel they need to vote? No, I think | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
it is a conscious decision. People look at the politicians and ask if | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
they represent them. They do not come up with anything at all. | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
You concerned that young people are not interested in politics? I am a | :53:51. | :53:58. | |
bad person to ask, because H never got involved in politics until later | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
in life. It was when I was running a factory and we had nine different | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
unions trying to run the factory and having an extremely difficult time. | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
That was the big issue of the time and that is why I opt into politics. | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
I think that different issuds bring people in at different times. It is | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
nice if people do get involved, but I do not think it is new. | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
It is something that has bedn very important for me during the years | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
that I have been an MP, is being as accessible at as I can with the | :54:34. | :54:40. | |
people who want to contact le. I talk to people on Twitter and on | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
Facebook, asking them what hs on their mind. | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
There is an issue with the Liberal Democrats, with students, students | :54:50. | :54:55. | |
who perhaps were trying to vote against student fees, you got into | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
power and you did do it. So what is the point? I think that if we had | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
our time again, we would do things differently. One of the points that | :55:06. | :55:15. | |
David Blunkett made was abott apathy and communication. Parties need to | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
work together to go into thd elections, saying what they will do | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
and what they will stick to. You have to do that before the dlection. | :55:26. | :55:34. | |
I still don't think that anx of the political parties at the molent are | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
really putting forward a strong offer for young people. | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
So why would they not be interested in young people? This is wh`t I mean | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
about a negative feedback loop. Because young people are not voting, | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
there is almost a cynical calculation that the people that you | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
need to focus policy on are not young people. | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
Who are getting all the bendfits? The old people? I think olddr people | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
are being looked after bettdr than younger people and I think people | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
who own property and are more likely to vote for the government. | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
Yes, when you say not making a good offer for young people, the most | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
important thing for peoples in university is that they will have | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
the possibility of a job. Is he right when you say th`t | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
politicians are more interested in older people? It is not for older | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
people that we have to turn the economy around. There are now | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
starting to be far more job opportunities. You are the future | :56:46. | :56:48. | |
and we have to turn that cotntry around will stop good thing is, | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
although it is not offered to young people, about a student grants, the | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
key thing is that what you `re looking and hoping for is the chance | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
of a good opportunity career in the future. That is what we havd to do | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
for all your colleagues and young people in this country. Most | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
importantly, it is starting to happen. | :57:13. | :57:19. | |
Now we will look back at thd political week in 60 seconds. | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
On Thursday, the funeral was held for one of the West's polithcal | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
giants. Hundreds gathered to remember Tony Benn, who served as | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
Bristol MP for over 30 years. The Red Flag was played as his coffin | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
left the church. On last week's programme, wd | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
reported on rumours that thd government would relax its ban on | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
fox hunting. It came from f`rmers whose land was being attackdd by | :57:46. | :57:53. | |
hunters. `` attacked by foxds. This week, they got the answer. That | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
letter has been received and has been considered, but I regrdt to say | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
that I don't think there will be government agreement to go forward. | :58:03. | :58:05. | |
This empty and expensive buhlding in Taunton may finally have a tenant. | :58:06. | :58:08. | |
The regional fire control cdntre was built in 2007, but never usdd. A | :58:09. | :58:15. | |
deal is being struck to rent it out. And yesterday, the wedding bells | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
finally rang out for this h`ppy couple. They were the first in | :58:19. | :58:21. | |
Bristol to tie the knot aftdr the law was changed to allow sale`sex | :58:22. | :58:30. | |
marriage. Yesterday was quite a day for gay | :58:31. | :58:38. | |
weddings. Would you go to a gay wedding if you | :58:39. | :58:46. | |
were invited? Only if they were close friends. We have all had | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
difficulties over this issud. I would not refuse, but I havd never | :58:52. | :59:00. | |
been introduced yesterday. `` I would not be very enthtsiasm. | :59:01. | :59:10. | |
And what about you? You votdd in favour. I think that we will accept | :59:11. | :59:20. | |
that marriage is equal and that two people who love each other should be | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
able to call it marriage. Next week, we will hear abott how | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
businesses feel about leaving Europe. For now, it is back to | :59:31. | :59:33. | |
London. boundaries. Sorry, run out of time. | :59:34. | :59:35. | |
Thanks very much indeed. Andrew back to you. | :59:36. | :59:43. | |
Now let's get more from our political panel. If the BNP | :59:44. | :59:53. | |
finished? They were never spectacularly successful to begin | :59:54. | :59:56. | |
with but one of my childhood memories was a huge fuss in London | :59:57. | :59:59. | |
about the fact that they won a few council seat on the Isle of dogs | :00:00. | :00:03. | |
back in 1993. That was enough to cause a panic. As if they are | :00:04. | :00:06. | |
falling from a great tit and I think the big difference with the National | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
front in France is that they are building on decades of successful | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
that they finished second in the presence of elections in 2002, I | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
think. And, even in the 60s, they were versions of their politics So | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
they are building on a lot whereas the BNP are working with incredibly | :00:24. | :00:32. | |
few raw materials in this country. It is interesting that the BNP does | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
seem to be in decline in terms of its membership and financially, but | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
in France, the far right party, not as far right as the BNP, but pretty | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
far right, will probably do well in the second round of the French local | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
elections. You could say the same about Golden Dawn in Greece. Parties | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
prosper when the picture is pre-rolled for them. If mainstream | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
parties talk endlessly about immigration, saying you cannot get a | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
council house because it has gone to an immigrant instead of saying it is | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
because there are not enough council houses, that creates the conditions | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
in which the far right can thrive. We are lucky that all the members of | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
the BNP fell out with each other. As extreme members of the far right and | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
left do. You can see that with the comedian in France, he has got a lot | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
of support from people on the left as well. I asked Simon Derby was | :01:32. | :01:39. | |
here victim of a pincer movement that UKIP were taken away voters and | :01:40. | :01:47. | |
EDL has captured the Street protest. Yes, and Giles still not mention | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
that the Labour Party has got its act together. They got the act | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
together in Dagenham. Margaret Hodge and Jon Cruddas did a very good job. | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
I think UKIP would say, not a racist party but they are picking up votes | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
from people who would once have voted BNP. But it is interesting the | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
difference between Britain and France. Why is it that the Front | :02:13. | :02:19. | |
Nationale came second in 2002 when they are not far right? I think they | :02:20. | :02:28. | |
were on a five-year cycle because the next election was 2007. 200 | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
they came second when Jean-Marie Le Pen came second. They are not as far | :02:35. | :02:48. | |
right as the BNP. Marine has put them -- cleaned them up a bit. | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
Diplomatically there is a much harder vote which spreads further | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
across the electorate in France than there is in this country. This is a | :02:57. | :03:09. | |
much more tolerant country. If Marine Le Pen does well today, she | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
will not win that many because the centre-right and centre-left will | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
always gang up against terror in the second round, but it sets the tone | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
for the European elections. It does and for the next French presidential | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
election as well. I think what she's doing masterfully is combining a far | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
right politics with what you might call a far left economic politics. | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
She's not just picking up votes from xenophobes, she is picking up votes | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
from who feel victimised from globalisation. They are people who | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
would be voting for socialists but are put off by the current | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
president. That is what I do not think the British far right parties | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
have been able to do. You sort Simon Derby try to tell you that the BNP | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
are not far right party. I think he was going to say if you look at | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
issues of protectionism, standing up against globalisation, they are | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
quite statist. That is where the phrase National Socialist comes | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
from. That is why a little bit of electoral success is often a killer | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
for far right parties. They get a few council seats and then they are | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
rubbish. They are not getting people's bins collected so they | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
become part of the system that people were voting against in the | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
first place. Lets go on to the Labour Party. If you are a Labour | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
Party supporter and you want to be cheered up, you pick up the Sunday | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
Times where you see a poll where the leader is up to seven points. If you | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
are Tory Lib Dem and you want to be cheered up, you pick up the | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
Observer, the left-wing paper, where the Labour leader is still 1%. I | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
have read in the paper that there is quite a lot of of the record | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
briefings going on at the top of the Labour Party. Give us a sense of the | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
mood. Clearly, they are unsettled. One pol looks OK but there has been | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
a run of polls where there is a lead over the Tories which is closing. | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
There are worrying number of people who are what are called the 35s and | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
they are people who thought all the Labour Party needs to do is sit | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
still because there are a number of Liberal Democrat voters who hate the | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
coalition. Because the Conservatives did not get through the boundary | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
changes they needed to win, we can sit tight and it will all be fine. | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
What a few wise old heads are concerned about is they feel this | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
has a feel of 1987 about it when the Labour Party was united. They had a | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
very good leader. The leader was impressive, the party was united and | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
then what happened? They met the British people and an election. The | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
British people said, terribly sorry, you are not occupying the party | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
political territory where we will vote for you. There are some people | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
from the Blair era who say it feels a bit complacent and there may be a | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
bit of a shock when they meet the voters. We talk about people being | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
unsettled but Ed Miliband is not unsettled. His defining | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
characteristic is you might call it steadiness or you might call it a | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
lack of agility. He could not respond to the pension stuff in the | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
budget which was thrown at him. But he's very good at separating the | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
signal from the noise. They may think this will all change in me. | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
The Tories may be on the back foot after the European elections. He has | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
the ability to set the political weather. He did it with the price | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
freeze. There is no doubt that Mr Davey would not be referring these | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
energy companies to the competition authorities if it had not been for | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
that speech by the Labour leader. And we read today he has come up | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
with another policy which will be attention grabbing to cut student | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
tuition fees. It is easy to forget that before he announced the price | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
freeze he was in as much vertical trouble as he is now. I think the | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
Labour poll lead will expand up to five or 6% by the summer, assuming | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
the Tories do badly. The question is, is five or 6% enough? Nick | :07:27. | :07:34. | |
through the analogy with 1987. This reminds me of the Conservatives in | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
2009/10. You have a steadily sinking poll lead, differences in what | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
campaign they should be running and personal animosity behind the | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
scenes. It led to them throwing away an election which seemed to be | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
winnable. There is an important difference with the 1980s which was | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
because you did not know when the election would be. Will it be in 87 | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
or 88? They do not need to make up their mind until next year. What | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
they are telling the pollsters now, we do not like this government | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
because of course, you do not like the government. But next January or | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
February they will be making up their minds. Is there a lot of | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
animosity among the leading Labour figures behind-the-scenes? It must | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
be personal or tactical because there are not big ideological | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
differences between them, is there? Yes and no. What is striking is how | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
little support Miliband gets from the shadow cabinet. He does not have | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
outriders. That has been a continuous theme. Said he feels he | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
is on his own? That they feel they do not get support from him. There | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
was a column by Jenni Russell saying he is distant and detached. And | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
Andrew Walmsley touched on this in the Observer. One of the divisions | :08:57. | :09:04. | |
is Ed versus Ed. There is a terrible structural problem between those | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
two. It is a real problem. Ed Miliband believes Ed Balls has not | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
done enough to get economic red ability. Ed Balls believes Ed | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
Miliband is making airy fairy speeches and it will not cut with | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
the electorate. Neither Mr Cameron nor Mr Miller band took part in the | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
debate which happened earlier this week between the Lib Dems and UKIP. | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
We have got another one coming up on the BBC on Wednesday night. Let s | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
remind ourselves of what happened in last week's debate. | :09:36. | :09:43. | |
I will ask Nick to open the batting. We are better off in Europe... | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
Frankly not working any more. A referendum on Europe. I agree with | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
you. I agree with you. If you can read the small print. Pull up the | :09:59. | :10:07. | |
drawbridge, pool drawbridge up. . We have 485 million people... It is | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
simply not true! Not true. Not true. Not true. Identical with Nick. I | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
don't agree with Nick. Based on facts, facts, the facts, facts, the | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
facts... Thank God we did not listen to you. The food is getting better | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
here. Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. You have never had a proper job. Great | :10:33. | :10:42. | |
not little England. Good night. I think it is seven o'clock BBC Two. | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
Helen, what was the outcome of that and how do we mark our card for this | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
week? It was not a great time for pundits. Everybody called the debate | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
for Nick and then they said actually, we think it has gone the | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
other way. Consensus emerged later on that Nick Clegg made a difficult | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
argument. I think the most important thing Nigel Farage said was he | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
distinguished out the immigration policy by saying we're not just | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
closing day over, we want people to come, we just do not want mass EU | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
immigration. That is an important thing for him to say to get away | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
from the echoes of the far right. I suspect Nick Clegg will not ask us | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
to read the small print. That was 11 turn he took. It compounded his | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
reputation for being sneaky. I slightly disagree about the pundits. | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
I say this as someone who thought far it would win. -- Nigel Farage | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
would win. The fact that the public disagree with you and the public | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
favoured Nigel Farage does not mean the public were wrong. The question | :11:51. | :11:59. | |
is, who is going to tune in for the second one? What is the answer to | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
that? Phil Collins argument is a man who is on 8% is fantastic. It is a | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
binary choice in this debate. Clearly they need to brush up on | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
opposite areas. Nigel Farage needs to brush up on facts and Nick Clegg | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
needs to brush up on the motions because he did not connect very | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
well. Where Nick Clegg may go after Nigel Farage is when the -- when he | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
said the EU has blood on its hands with Ukraine. He then came back to | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
talk about the vanity of EU foreign policy and said European Union had | :12:35. | :12:36. | |
made what was going on in Syria worse. It is one thing to say I do | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
not think the UK should be part of the joint European foreign policy, | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
it is part of another thing to say that Europe which will act with or | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
without the UK is responsible for blood on the streets of Kiev and | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
also responsible for exacerbating the Civil War in Syria. Maybe an | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
hour is too long for Nigel Farage's shtick? That may be the case but | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
Nick Clegg has precedence. He does that show and he has had to deal | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
with the worst thing with dealing with what is thrown at him so he has | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
honed his view consistently. We will see what happens in part two. | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
That's all for this week. The Daily Politics is on BBC Two at lunchtime | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
every day this week. I'll be here next week at the usual time of 1 | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
o'clock. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:27. | :13:33. |