08/06/2014 Sunday Politics West


Andrew Neil and David Garmston with the latest political news and debate, including an interview with Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.

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David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers


over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.


And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.


We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live


Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?


David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist


But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?


Here's to the quarter of a million votes.


And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with


a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.


In the West: Fancy building your own homd?


Attempts to double the numbdrs that do it themselves are falling short.


We'll discuss why with the nation's favourite grand designer,


Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?


And with me our panel of top political journalists,


who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee


and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme


This morning's political news is dominated


by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and


The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior


Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling


The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of


investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham


where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken


Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office


was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.


He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.


In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,


"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people


Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the


An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.


Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's


Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning


this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.


There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,


which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.


There will be discipline in the Government.


The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.


The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s


put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.


Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she


has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael


Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during


13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an


act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website


and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of


conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a


leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a


vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In


the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.


She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is


interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse


differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is


tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.


Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the


politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is


deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but


replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in


ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that


ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the


Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with


Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick


Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and


criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the


Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is


fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What


separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The


view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic


extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is


criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour


government introduced to do with the previous Labour government


introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people


and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous


home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in


the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has


used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the


swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed


those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove


would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech


the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11


when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists


warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system


is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.


Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.


Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of


their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents


in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political


infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the


resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs


to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.


There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for


four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact


that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on


for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much


stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations


like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the


Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the


leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an


overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We


want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate


themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which


makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to


be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted


curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an


education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender


segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender


segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling


Where you have a state education system, which is about gender


equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of


gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be


tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We


do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years


ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like


tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do


think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to


inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to


be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy


sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning


as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of


Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools


were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They


were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an


academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within


Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school


standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we


get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking


to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme


which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and


fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a


desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an


increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr


Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for


gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in


since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We


note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected


head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and


what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about


fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of


schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You


mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence


for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group


dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about


schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in


Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of


multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic


education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this


morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,


the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.


In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools


and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed


this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and


this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you


fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get


together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There


are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city


council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning


have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in


schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have


a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for


four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to


account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils


in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young


people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do


you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that


Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was


building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We


have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard


Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate


about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,


the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do


to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must


with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on


stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the


most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -


from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described


Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the


problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor


Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that


Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7


summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people


running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change


and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads


of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what


I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed


in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering


that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away


from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.


We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is


a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.


He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.


And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin


Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives


and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.


The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new


Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out


gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to


have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a


high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next


three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the


president of the European Council after the proposal of the European


Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in


the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr


Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going


to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us


one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine


Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have


a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need


radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave


us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in


public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks


campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the


European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent


a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status


quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?


First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks


against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man


who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro


group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the


financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible


financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who


works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in


Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But


we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of


this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the


winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs


LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority


in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It


is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament


has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by


majority in the light of the European elections after


consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a


candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a


majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the


Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.


I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European


elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the


elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats


in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking


part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the


United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German


socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a


nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with


hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a


democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to


take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if


I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of


the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to


Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives


have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they


have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form


of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr


Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU


exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we


want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious


reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to


vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,


somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We


need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the


European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of


federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in


Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to


take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the


publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.


We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If


enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in


the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,


would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected


by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the


European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted


pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist


thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe


which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not


want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state


This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better


governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to


become better, to change our programme in that question. That


should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for


that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to


be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are


matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent


candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British


commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election


-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.


Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European


They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs


and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.


What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body


which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission


This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They


didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes


They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once


in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,


drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they


are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the


party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and


the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting


such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election


under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was


invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.


When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most


seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated


using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --


first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and


London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,


if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant


to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to


UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would


have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by


mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to


experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of


1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This


man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and


polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat


candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards


realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little


Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -


bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.


Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on


so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was


established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh


floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to


voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the


conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name


of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those


registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our


opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on


the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,


were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need


to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An


independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved


in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the


description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word


independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in


1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again


at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the


major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking


votes of them. Joining me now to discuss


this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the


South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is


the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that


were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to


tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the


breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats


that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.


You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.


You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those


with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there


is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people


who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,


they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.


I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And


Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent


people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of


delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people


have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the


first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them


in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it


strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the


electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to


Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European


Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did


come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the


election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy


with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got


significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.


Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well


represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?


Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.


I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had


getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they


voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.


What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would


agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral


Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not


confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to


agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes


and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the


south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats


into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the


system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did


not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because


you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you


have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain


about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have


complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a


proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,


we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national


legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for


national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused


some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were


very worried. Worried about the rightward move of UKIP and the


authoritarian leadership of Nigel Farage. He set up a separate party.


That is what happens in politics, particularly when parties are led by


demagogues and are not focused on Democratic policy. Do you have any


legal redress to this? None whatsoever. Have you had legal


advice? I am told there is no redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly


does not agree with UKIP on anything so, if we say the sun rises in the


morning, she probably will disagree with that. If, at the next election,


there is a party called the Grown Party, will she then complain? There


needs to be some level of accountability and, without that,


one wonders what is going on. We have an organisation with enormous


and important power and influence which is setup to stop this of thing


going on. It has failed. Not has it has failed. Not present served in


Tower Hamlets and there have been massive problems with postal votes.


It is failing on almost everything it is supposed to do. Just to go


back for a final point from Molly. Should there be a right of appeal to


the rulings of the Electoral Commission? You need to have an


authoritative body that makes decisions in this area and we have


the Electoral Commission. It is about being sore losers on the part


of UKIP. I am delighted to represent people in the South West. Should


there be a right of appeal or not? You need an authoritative body and


the Electoral Commission is that. I do not think it should have a right


to appeal. We say goodbye to viewers


in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes,


we'll be discussing extremism Welcome to the part of the show just


for us here in the West Country Coming up, we'll be talking


about building a dream home with The Government is urging more


of us to reach for the hammdr and drill as it tries to tackle


the housing shortage. But new figures suggest we `re much


happier watching others havd a go Here to talk bricks and mortar


and more besides is the Labour leader for Bristol City


Council, Helen Holland. We're also joined by the


Liberal Democrat, Steve Bradley Steve, this week, the Queen reopened


Parliament and we heard somd Is the Coalition actually scraping


the bottom of the barrel? This is something which Nick Clegg


first announced in September 20 2, it is a real environmental coup for


this government, for the Liberal Democrats


in government. 7 billion plastic bags are tsed


in this country every year. A huge waste of resources,


found in every side road It is surprising that it is


at the top of the agenda. It is not at the top of the agenda,


it is on the agenda. I'm pleased with the


Liberal Democrats in Governlent What did you make of


the Queen's speech? Most people watching it would not


think that a lot of the things that


they are concerned about ` the house prices


we will talk about later, there is nothing there


to address those things. Although I am supportive


of the plastic bag issue, it is just Do you think people will


mind forking out 5p? They might mind


but the experience is that ht works. That is good news for the fhnanciers


handing out ever`bigger homd loans. Bad news for many,


especially those of us tried get The situation is especially


chronic here in the West. The supply of homes is completely


outstripped by demand. A one`bedroom flat with two


occupants, soon to be three. Becky and James are having


a baby, so need something bhgger. First`time buyers with decent jobs,


they wanted a two`bed terrace I suppose we were shocked.


Very shocked! There have been some


stressful times. Emotional. Frustration that we felt we were


in a decent position, Even humble houses go


for more than they can afford. One mortgage provider reckons


that in the last year prices Affordability is a big problem


in the West. The average house prices ard already


11 times greater than In Bath and North East Somerset


and Dorset, it is worse, at 14, while the most unaffordable place is


the Cotswolds, Every council


in the West is worried. In Bath, they are finalising


a long`term plan, setting ott Nobody wants a shortage of houses


but the area that we have in Bath, bearing in mind Bath is one


of the only World Heritage cities available, we also have the


Cotswolds area of natural bdauty surrounding us, plus the Mendip area


of outstanding natural beauty. We have very little


developable land available. At the same time as news cale


through the latest leap in property prices, European Commission weighed


in with its annual report of It recommended the Government


build more houses, reform council tax to raise more


money from wealthy households and to That has helped the Bond falily


of Taunton. They would otherwise have struggled


to raise a big enough deposht We have two is children


and we are looking for somewhere that we can grow into,


a village location that meant we We found that house that ticked all


those boxes and I would defhnitely say at this point we would not


have been able to move into it There are worries it is helping to


push up prices, which incre`ses That has brought this warning


from the former head of This has been an imbalance hn the UK


for many years. After the crisis in 2009, 2010,


across the whole of the polhtical spectrum, there was a lot of talk


about how we needed a more balanced economy, that wasn't dependdnt


on a credit fuelled propertx boom. It is clear that we're getthng back


to growth but at the core of that is Back in Bristol, Becky and James


cannot get more credit so We have had to make some colpromises


and go to a back`up plan. We're looking at instead


of two`bedroom terrace housds with a garden,


perhaps looking for a two`bddroom So soaring house prices mean leaving


the area they love before I'm delighted to say we are joined


by Kevin McCloud, who is a developer of sustahnable


housing when he's not presenting Is the housing market


spiralling out of control? Mark Carney of the Bank


of England thinks it is. He thinks the next recession we re


going to have will result again He lives in London, where the Bank


of England is, and you see extraordinary things happenhng


there. You see people from abroad buying,


to keep not even to let, vast swathes of property, apartmdnts


in the outlying suburbs of London They have risen about 10%


in the last years against as If you go to the north`east, they


have dropped by 7% in Middldsbrough. There is nowhere to buy che`p


property in the south`west, You take a national average,


the south`west almost represents exactly the national averagd, price,


growth rate and so on. There was a report that said


we need 300,000 homes The maximum we've built


between then and now is 180,000 In this tiny country,


which is now the most densely with a very strong planning regime,


historically, and strong pl`nning But we ought to be looking, I


believe and in our business we try hard to find sites which ard within


towns and cities, because otr towns and cities of low density and could


do with a lot more identification. We need to be looking at wh`t


our village extensions should be. Where I live, near Frome,


there are two local villages who are expecting to double in size


in the next two years. Stephen, really, there are not


enough houses being built. So people cannot buy


and they cannot rent, it is There has been a long`standhng


problem without property market In 2010, house new starts wdre at


the lowest level since the 0920s. We had an erosion of the social


social rented sector, we lost Across only two years


of Labour's time in power dhd we The different elements were not


being tackled then, the Liberal Democrats in


government We have new builds,


new starts at the highest ldvel Under Labour, 13 years in


government, you were building 1 000 At the same time,


allowing mass immigration. You don't have to be Einstehn to


work out there will not be dnough I think everyone in the Labour Party


at knowledges that not enough was done during the time


in Government. The House building at the moment is


the lowest since the 1920s `nd yet we have got those kind of pressures


that we saw in the film on families. If you spoke to any councillors


in Bristol, they would hear from people all the


time about the real impact, families who have to live separately because


they are living with their parents There is always local opposhtion


to building a house. Modern houses look so drearx


and they are little boxes. We object to change because


change is rubbish, it is ustally It would be wonderful


if we could build houses whhch were inspiring places, we could lake


communities which are reallx great. The legislation has


not allowed them to. One of the things we have in Bristol


and I know the mayor has looked at it is that there are 6,000


planning permissions The Labour Shadow Cabinet is


looking at saying, really, developers ought to use it or lose


it. There ought to be some recolpense


so that we can make sure th`t developers do build those


properties. Do you think getting tough


will work? What she's talking


about using or use it, it is looking at something xou are


looking at as a Coalition? I think we need to do


is to tackle supply issues not just across the buying sector


but the renting sector. The Coalition government ard


working hard to do that. It is fantastic we have got Kevin


here today. He was appointed by the Coalition


government, he is a champion for enabling people to build under


the right circumstances. You might think that with tdlevision


shows like Kevin's never far from our screens, we would be


enthusiastic The latest statistics show the


Government It needs twice as many


of us to pick up our tools. Is your current home looking


a little shabby? Or perhaps you want to wash


your hands of that avocado suite. Well, the Government wants those


thinking of moving to be inspired Tired of conventional homes, and


with next to no DIY experience, he I had the choice of


either buying a city centre flat This is a lot more interesthng


and challenging and more rewarding It is taken two years in


spite of holding down a full`time It is en vogue in France


and Germany, where 50% But here, it seems,


it is just not our cup of tda. The idea about building


your own home, I think, is hgnited But the hurdles for it to h`ppen,


I think, one, two or five years


down the line, are then going out


and buying an existing housd because land has not become available


for them to do the project. Back when the Coalition was formed,


the Government promised to double the number of self build holes being


built within a decade. The number was just over 10,000


in that year. However, last year, that figure


had slumped to just over 8,000. So the self`build Revolution is


yet to really raise the roof. Add this self build advice centre


in Swindon, we hear many thdories I don't think


the message has even begun xet. I still think that first`tile buyers


and first`time movers have no concept that self build could be


a solution for them. Self build could make housing much


more affordable at those two crucial levels,


first`time buyers, first`tile Because self build enables people to


make a financial gain in thd value of their property instantly, as


a reward for the effort thex put in. Communities of self build homes


like this one in Bristol, The Government is now targeting


its efforts on a halfway hotse. ?150 million has been found


for custom`built homes, that is where you choose yotr home


from a developer's catalogud But the lack of land remain is


a fundamental problem. So we are certainly challenging


everyone in the public sector to look at their land holdings


and see what can be made av`ilable both for affordable housing and for


customised and self build as well. We are thinking


about introducing something which exists on the continent where


a resident is able to say to the local authority, "I want to build


my own home, but I need the land to At the moment,


that doesn't exist in Britahn. But Labour says that


doesn't go far enough. It would force land banking


developers to use Politicians of all colours seem to


be falling over themselves to appeal Hoping they, like Adam here,


build homes to help ease But, for the time being, most


of us seem quite content to watch stories like this one on fold in


the comfort of our own armchairs. I wouldn't know where to st`rt


building my own home and I think a lot of my fellow citizens fdel the


same. There are around 4 million people


in the UK who want to build their That is a huge number,


that is a massive... They are not doing it because


of many issues, land is a bhg one, the availability of land,


or people sitting on their land The homes and communities


agency, the Government arm for the disposal of government land


has been instructed to sell land to make it available for self build


and yet not much has happendd. Local authorities have been mandated


in the National Planning Policy Framework to get out there


and survey every community in the UK to find out who w`nts


a self`build property. The trouble is,


we watch your programme, which we absolutely love, btt every


week it is a drama, isn't it? The build goes wrong,


the architect is ridiculous. All these odd people


and it is always, It's storytelling on television


come on! In real life, the process c`n be


de`risked, it can be de`strdssed. For heaven's sake, right now


in Bristol, a self build agency are


organising with ex`servicemdn, many of whom have been


on the streets, without a home, who It is a process


which can be really empowerhng, it can be enjoyable and if you hand's


held with the developer and a good But you could lose everything,


couldn't you? If you're working with


a conventional house`builder and you're going the custom`built route,


which is the route that manx people do, as in the film, you end up with


a contract, home that has bden built for you to your taste and your


design, it is a really uniqte place. We will see it, it will takd


a while, we will see change. In terms of the community sdlf build


and the ex`servicemen project, I have been to the first ond and I


was at the presentation last time. They are small numbers


but they are very specific `bout the needs and those are, it is not


just providing people with ` home or with an address, which actu`lly


means that you can then participate the skills they learn


while they are building the home. Should councils be


forced to provide land? Say I want to build my own house,


should I be able to go to the council and say,


"Will you find me some land please?" One of the things the Coalition


government is looking at is putting something into


the national framework to insist on provision of sites for custom`built,


I'd draw a distinction betwden The example in the video tape was


of extreme DIY, the individtal Custom builders more


about making the local... As Kevin alluded to, the holes and


communities agency has been tasked We need to make sure within


a Coalition government that they There is work that needs to be done


around the availability of land We about to go into consult`tion as


a government on the right to build, to look at whether we can, `s you


suggested force councils to identify sites and say, "I want to btild


a house that meets my needs and the "needs of my family


and my community here," and we The localism act and everything


about the National Planning Policy Framework tries to drive control


back to communities. My business have been working


in parts of Bristol, walking into communities and saying,


"what do you want? And from that point,


starting to try and figure out how developers and local authorhties


might deliver what committeds want Just give us a ballpark figtre


if someone wanted to custom build It is likely to cost slightly


less than buying it on spec. But


the thing is you get better value. You get a


better built house, you get a Green home that will cost less to run you


will end up with perhaps solething much more tailored, a much greater


value in the end, because it is better built and it is disthnctive


and something which will brhng you I think in discussion about numbers


and planning, we forget the value They do this in Germany and France,


do you think this is a Brithsh I think, to repeat the commdnt


about it, I think for specific areas there is a self


build scheme that has been there It is because they weren't big


enough houses for bigger falilies and so a group of big familhes who


were on the council waiting list got together, work with the housing


association and build that scheme. On the continent, people rent until


they are in a position to bty their There was a project of 4,000


homes just outside of Amsterdam There are the building


groups of Berlin, 10,000 people have got involved in those groups now and


although each country operates under completely different regimes and


circumstances, in this country we have the potential and alre`dy


across this region and in places like Bicester, we're seeing projects


coming forward for 200, 500 homes. Thank you.


Great pleasure to meet you. We live in a world


of sound bites and tweets, so we decided to condense the West's


political news into 60 seconds. Health campaigners have cause


to celebrate after attempts to part privatise a North Somerset


hospital were scrapped. Private firms have put


in bids to manage Western Gdneral but it was decided that another


NHS Trust should be showed chosen to This illegal camp


on green belt land near Bath will be replaced with a permanent home


for Gypsies and Travellers. Councillors voted through


controversial plans to set tp 1 permanent pitches at a cost


of around ?2 million. Parents from south Gloucestdr


have launched a legal challdnge against the ban on taking children


out of school during term thme. The group, parents want a s`y,


are angry at the school fires being h`nded out


to parents who break the rules. And


a Bristol boy made good camd back to Sajid Javid is now the


Culture Secretary but he was brought up in more humble


surroundings above his family's Helen, I am told that in


a former life you were a te`cher. What do you think


about finding parents for t`king Well, there is no doubt the place


our children ought to be ushng school in term time but I think it


is a blunt instrument, isn't it Parents who can afford very


expensive holidays, it is no problem to then to add


on the cost of the fine. Unfortunately,


there are holiday firms who are offering to pay the cost


of the fine, which cannot bd right. Would you encourage someone or say


to someone, "All right, I think that the people who are best


placed to decide what is right for their particular childrdn are


generally the parents. Obviously, there will be extreme is


where that may not be the case that I would agree that we


should not have blunt instrtments. I want parents to make the sensible,


responsible decisions that `re And that is just about it


from our Bristol studio this week. You can always catch up with


this part of the show again. my guests. That is it for the Sunday


Politics in London. Back to Andrew. Is enough being done to


tackle extremism in schools? Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker,


will make we are joined by the founder of the


Quilliam Association. If you read the Sunday Telegraph this morning,


there is a real problem. If you read the Observer, there is not much of a


problem. What is the situation in your view in Birmingham? Allegations


are seen to be -- if music was not being taught as it should be.


Instead of the rating the national holidays here during the Christmas


period, children were sent off instead on religious pilgrimage to


Mecca, then I think something is going on. From my knowledge, I know


about some of the strategies to influence. These strategies are


known as gradualism. The idea, like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is


to join the institutions of society and influence from within -- from


within. It is a gradual approach to Islamicisation society. We have seen


that happening in other areas, such as the decision by the Law Society


to call it shy and issue it out as guidance for solicitors. They are


saying this means that women inherit half of what men


saying this means that women inherit and adopted children do not get any


inheritance. Apostates do not get any inheritance. These are


guidelines being issued by the Law Society by Islamic. It is a medieval


take on Islam. That is what is meant. We see the same names popping


up again and again in different situations in Birmingham. Is it a


planned infiltration? In my profession of you and


planned infiltration? In my profession of you having spent 3


years on the leadership of an Islamist organisation, having been


involved Islamist organisation, having been


and setting up schools, I am very Islamist organisation, having been


certain is a deliberate plan to influence the students of this


country with a medieval interpretation of my own faith to


bring about a medieval, conservative view, and enforce things like


segregation on boys and girls within our public institutions. With these


things be acceptable if they were explicitly they schools? If they


were state. We had state Anglican faith schools. We have state


Catholic faith schools as well. Would it be acceptable if these were


state Islamic schools? That is a policy question. I am not generally


in favour. I would believe in this establishment. I am not a fan of


faith schools. I do think the solution is to ban them. I do think


these schools should start working out with an engaging with the wider


communities and not being insular and looking inwards. It is very


important. The Ofsted report is coming out tomorrow. We have already


had a taste about what it is saying about some of the schools. Is it a


serious problem? It is a very serious problem. It comes from the


segregation of children into intensely populated areas where


everyone is Muslim virtually. You have to have a system of spreading


children between schools. It very often happens, even with a secular


school like this. Nearby Catholic or Church of England schools become


like-for-like schools and that leaves the rest of the state schools


to become all of one faith. I think all of the parties are being quite


hypocritical about the profound problem of continuing to have faith


schools. You have Orthodox Jewish schools with extraordinary dogma


being taught. Indeed very strict Catholic schools with amazing dogma


being taught. To somehow only get worried when it is Islamic, when it


is Muslim schools, becomes a problem. You have to look at the


whole issue and said the state should simply withdraw from the


business of faith education. Like France? Yes, a secular school. The


overall government policy is to take power away. The dilemma with that is


that it comes with dangers. Some schools will be incompetent and some


schools will be more than incompetent, they will be maligned


in some respects. The one bit of this policy which has never been


entirely squared is how do you devolve and retain a basic minimum


of educational standards and behavioural standards while doing


it? There is an even deeper quandary for Britain. We have prided


ourselves on allowing radical views that stop short of violence. We took


on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe would not have him. The rest of


Europe could not believe how tolerably well of radical preachers


in the 1990s. Do we stick with that view? The risks were greater than


they were 100 years ago. We do expect, whatever peoples faith, that


our children, at the expense of the taxpayer, are educated, not


instructed, not indoctrinated, educated. We do expect that and also


that boys and girls are treated equally. One of the things the board


in Birmingham will be looking at which has Andrew Mitchell on it the


former development Secretary, because he is a Birmingham MP full


Sutton, they are really concerned about whether the girls are being


treated as second-class citizens. There has been a lot of work done on


empowerment of girls. Shirley Williams made the point that what


Michael Gove has done by creating free schools and academies is


undermined the work of local education authorities. They think


they are traditional bodies which are not open to reform. One school


in Birmingham which is accused of being in trouble is a local


education school. They cannot have the other side. Under Michael Gove,


they are answerable to the Secretary of State. It is down to Ofsted.


Ofsted is giving the schools, not that long ago, outstanding marks.


There are big questions about the oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt


was trying to answer that point By tapping it cannot all have gone pear


shaped in two years. How do you think that will play out? -- it


cannot have gone pear shaped. The story was broken in February. It


will keep playing out. The report that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow


or Monday. Then there is the other report that will look into wider


questions, that will come out in July, I think. We are expecting two


points. -- reports. We have to look at questions of Ofsted and other


institutions in our society, even government departments, where idea


of taxing non-violent extremism became a too boot in this country.


-- a taboo. They must be rebuffed the challenge, as we would expect


racism to be challenged. In the argument between Michael Gove and


Theresa May, where do you side? They should be challenged openly and


robust leap by civilian society It was settled by the Prime Minister


and is government policy. I had a hand in advising or consulting. I


think Fiona Cunningham was forced to resign because what she did violates


official government policy. It just has not been implemented yet. Will


Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke? You'll agree he have to decide


whether he will spirit at stopping him or accepting him as commission


president and ask in return for a massive commission portfolio for


Britain, something like the internal market, which they missed out on


last time. It is a diplomatic decision he have to make. It is too


late for that he is into deep. If he takes over the job, Cameron is left


with egg on its face. From the beginning, he did not have his voice


with the weight of the British Conservative Party, with ankle and


Arkle, the rest of them. He is reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest


of them. He is reaping that reward. There is a lot of support within


Europe. In Germany, there was a lot of opposition to David Cameron


getting his way. I know him from Brussels. He is entertaining, you go


to dinner with him and he smokes and drinks. He is entertaining but he is


the most awful person you could think of having trying to sort of


symbolise a new European Union. I remember I was there join the


Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when the voters in France and the


Netherlands voted no to the European constitution, what was his response


to that? Let's carry on with the ratification process of this treaty


that has been comprehensively rejected by voters. He did not say


the final bit of that sentence. You can see why Eurosceptics want him.


He has blown a raspy at all the people who have protested at the


elections with the way the European Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry.


This is your most popular... What has come in most recently is doing


really well. This is yours. There we go. Cheers! By our people so


cynical? They always go for a drink at 11am and they pull their own


pipes. I see them every day. -- pts. Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is


to mark the idea is to define clearly a liberal brand, or at least


I hope it is. It is not good enough for us to say the Liberal Democrats


challenge the Tories on this, on the fairer society, and challenge the


Labour Party on a strong economy. We need to define what we stand for.


That is what I call a liberal brand, assertive liberalism. I have been


there myself and I think that is what he will be speaking about.


Standing up for liberal values, to finding -- defining what they are.


Disestablishment in getting younger people re-engage with politics. The


overwhelming number are actually liberal. We only have about 20


seconds. I suggest to you it is too late. Sign up with the one principle


on which he stood is Europe. -- the one principle on which he stood if


Europe. That is why he has been doing so badly. He cannot get out of


the hole he is in. If you fight three general elections to the left


of Labour and on the third when you are in coalition with the Tories,


you have got a problem. I will be back next week. Remember if it is


Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. What's the hardest thing


about being a foster parent? You're constantly trying


to build the elusive trust. It's like a big old question mark


in your heart. I just try and do the best I can


for them while they're with me


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