08/06/2014 Sunday Politics West

David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers

over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.

And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.

We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live

Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?

David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist

But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?

Here's to the quarter of a million votes.

And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with

a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.

In the West: Fancy building your own homd?

Attempts to double the numbdrs that do it themselves are falling short.

We'll discuss why with the nation's favourite grand designer,

Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?

And with me our panel of top political journalists,

who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee

and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme

This morning's political news is dominated

by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and

The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior

Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling

The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of

investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham

where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken

Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office

was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.

He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.

In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,

"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people

Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the

An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.

Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's

Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning

this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.

There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,

which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.

There will be discipline in the Government.

The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.

The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s

put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.

Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she

has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael

Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during

13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an

act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website

and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of

conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a

leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a

vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In

the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.

She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is

interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse

differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is

tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.

Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the

politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is

deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but

replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in

ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that

ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the

Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with

Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick

Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and

criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the

Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is

fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What

separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The

view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic

extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is

criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour

government introduced to do with the previous Labour government

introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people

and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous

home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in

the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has

used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the

swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed

those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove

would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech

the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11

when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists

warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system

is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.

Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.

Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of

their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents

in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political

infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the

resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs

to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.

There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for

four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact

that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on

for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much

stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations

like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the

Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the

leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an

overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We

want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate

themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which

makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to

be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted

curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an

education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender

segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender

segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling

Where you have a state education system, which is about gender

equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of

gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be

tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We

do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years

ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like

tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do

think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to

inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to

be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy

sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning

as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of

Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools

were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They

were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an

academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within

Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school

standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we

get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking

to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme

which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and

fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a

desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an

increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr

Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for

gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in

since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We

note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected

head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and

what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about

fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of

schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You

mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence

for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group

dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about

schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in

Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of

multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic

education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this

morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,

the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.

In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools

and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed

this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and

this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you

fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get

together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There

are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city

council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning

have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in

schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have

a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for

four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to

account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils

in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young

people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do

you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that

Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was

building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We

have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard

Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate

about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,

the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do

to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must

with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on

stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the

most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -

from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described

Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the

problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor

Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that

Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7

summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people

running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change

and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads

of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what

I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed

in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering

that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away

from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.

We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is

a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.

He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.

And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin

Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives

and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.

The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new

Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out

gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to

have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a

high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next

three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the

president of the European Council after the proposal of the European

Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in

the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr

Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going

to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us

one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine

Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have

a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need

radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave

us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in

public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks

campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the

European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent

a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status

quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?

First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks

against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man

who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro

group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the

financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible

financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who

works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in

Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But

we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of

this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the

winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs

LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority

in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It

is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament

has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by

majority in the light of the European elections after

consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a

candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a

majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the

Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.

I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European

elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the

elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats

in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking

part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the

United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German

socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a

nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with

hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a

democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to

take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if

I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of

the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to

Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives

have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they

have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form

of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr

Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU

exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we

want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious

reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to

vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,

somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We

need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the

European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of

federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in

Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to

take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the

publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.

We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If

enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in

the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,

would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected

by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the

European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted

pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist

thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe

which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not

want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state

This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better

governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to

become better, to change our programme in that question. That

should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for

that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to

be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are

matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent

candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British

commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election

-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.

Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European

They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs

and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.

What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body

which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission

This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They

didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes

They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once

in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,

drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they

are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the

party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and

the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting

such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election

under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was

invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.

When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most

seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated

using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --

first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and

London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,

if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant

to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to

UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would

have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by

mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to

experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of

1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This

man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and

polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat

candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards

realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little

Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -

bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.

Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on

so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was

established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh

floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to

voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the

conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name

of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those

registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our

opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on

the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,

were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need

to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An

independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved

in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the

description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word

independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in

1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again

at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the

major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking

votes of them. Joining me now to discuss

this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the

South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is

the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that

were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to

tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the

breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats

that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.

You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.

You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those

with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there

is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people

who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,

they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.

I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And

Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent

people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of

delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people

have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the

first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them

in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it

strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the

electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to

Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European

Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did

come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the

election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy

with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got

significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.

Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well

represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?

Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.

I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had

getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they

voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.

What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would

agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral

Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not

confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to

agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes

and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the

south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats

into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the

system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did

not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because

you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you

have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain

about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have

complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a

proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,

we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national

legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for

national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused

some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were

very worried. Worried about the rightward move of UKIP and the

authoritarian leadership of Nigel Farage. He set up a separate party.

That is what happens in politics, particularly when parties are led by

demagogues and are not focused on Democratic policy. Do you have any

legal redress to this? None whatsoever. Have you had legal

advice? I am told there is no redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly

does not agree with UKIP on anything so, if we say the sun rises in the

morning, she probably will disagree with that. If, at the next election,

there is a party called the Grown Party, will she then complain? There

needs to be some level of accountability and, without that,

one wonders what is going on. We have an organisation with enormous

and important power and influence which is setup to stop this of thing

going on. It has failed. Not has it has failed. Not present served in

Tower Hamlets and there have been massive problems with postal votes.

It is failing on almost everything it is supposed to do. Just to go

back for a final point from Molly. Should there be a right of appeal to

the rulings of the Electoral Commission? You need to have an

authoritative body that makes decisions in this area and we have

the Electoral Commission. It is about being sore losers on the part

of UKIP. I am delighted to represent people in the South West. Should

there be a right of appeal or not? You need an authoritative body and

the Electoral Commission is that. I do not think it should have a right

to appeal. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes,

we'll be discussing extremism Welcome to the part of the show just

for us here in the West Country Coming up, we'll be talking

about building a dream home with The Government is urging more

of us to reach for the hammdr and drill as it tries to tackle

the housing shortage. But new figures suggest we `re much

happier watching others havd a go Here to talk bricks and mortar

and more besides is the Labour leader for Bristol City

Council, Helen Holland. We're also joined by the

Liberal Democrat, Steve Bradley Steve, this week, the Queen reopened

Parliament and we heard somd Is the Coalition actually scraping

the bottom of the barrel? This is something which Nick Clegg

first announced in September 20 2, it is a real environmental coup for

this government, for the Liberal Democrats

in government. 7 billion plastic bags are tsed

in this country every year. A huge waste of resources,

found in every side road It is surprising that it is

at the top of the agenda. It is not at the top of the agenda,

it is on the agenda. I'm pleased with the

Liberal Democrats in Governlent What did you make of

the Queen's speech? Most people watching it would not

think that a lot of the things that

they are concerned about ` the house prices

we will talk about later, there is nothing there

to address those things. Although I am supportive

of the plastic bag issue, it is just Do you think people will

mind forking out 5p? They might mind

but the experience is that ht works. That is good news for the fhnanciers

handing out ever`bigger homd loans. Bad news for many,

especially those of us tried get The situation is especially

chronic here in the West. The supply of homes is completely

outstripped by demand. A one`bedroom flat with two

occupants, soon to be three. Becky and James are having

a baby, so need something bhgger. First`time buyers with decent jobs,

they wanted a two`bed terrace I suppose we were shocked.

Very shocked! There have been some

stressful times. Emotional. Frustration that we felt we were

in a decent position, Even humble houses go

for more than they can afford. One mortgage provider reckons

that in the last year prices Affordability is a big problem

in the West. The average house prices ard already

11 times greater than In Bath and North East Somerset

and Dorset, it is worse, at 14, while the most unaffordable place is

the Cotswolds, Every council

in the West is worried. In Bath, they are finalising

a long`term plan, setting ott Nobody wants a shortage of houses

but the area that we have in Bath, bearing in mind Bath is one

of the only World Heritage cities available, we also have the

Cotswolds area of natural bdauty surrounding us, plus the Mendip area

of outstanding natural beauty. We have very little

developable land available. At the same time as news cale

through the latest leap in property prices, European Commission weighed

in with its annual report of It recommended the Government

build more houses, reform council tax to raise more

money from wealthy households and to That has helped the Bond falily

of Taunton. They would otherwise have struggled

to raise a big enough deposht We have two is children

and we are looking for somewhere that we can grow into,

a village location that meant we We found that house that ticked all

those boxes and I would defhnitely say at this point we would not

have been able to move into it There are worries it is helping to

push up prices, which incre`ses That has brought this warning

from the former head of This has been an imbalance hn the UK

for many years. After the crisis in 2009, 2010,

across the whole of the polhtical spectrum, there was a lot of talk

about how we needed a more balanced economy, that wasn't dependdnt

on a credit fuelled propertx boom. It is clear that we're getthng back

to growth but at the core of that is Back in Bristol, Becky and James

cannot get more credit so We have had to make some colpromises

and go to a back`up plan. We're looking at instead

of two`bedroom terrace housds with a garden,

perhaps looking for a two`bddroom So soaring house prices mean leaving

the area they love before I'm delighted to say we are joined

by Kevin McCloud, who is a developer of sustahnable

housing when he's not presenting Is the housing market

spiralling out of control? Mark Carney of the Bank

of England thinks it is. He thinks the next recession we re

going to have will result again He lives in London, where the Bank

of England is, and you see extraordinary things happenhng

there. You see people from abroad buying,

to keep not even to let, vast swathes of property, apartmdnts

in the outlying suburbs of London They have risen about 10%

in the last years against as If you go to the north`east, they

have dropped by 7% in Middldsbrough. There is nowhere to buy che`p

property in the south`west, You take a national average,

the south`west almost represents exactly the national averagd, price,

growth rate and so on. There was a report that said

we need 300,000 homes The maximum we've built

between then and now is 180,000 In this tiny country,

which is now the most densely with a very strong planning regime,

historically, and strong pl`nning But we ought to be looking, I

believe and in our business we try hard to find sites which ard within

towns and cities, because otr towns and cities of low density and could

do with a lot more identification. We need to be looking at wh`t

our village extensions should be. Where I live, near Frome,

there are two local villages who are expecting to double in size

in the next two years. Stephen, really, there are not

enough houses being built. So people cannot buy

and they cannot rent, it is There has been a long`standhng

problem without property market In 2010, house new starts wdre at

the lowest level since the 0920s. We had an erosion of the social

social rented sector, we lost Across only two years

of Labour's time in power dhd we The different elements were not

being tackled then, the Liberal Democrats in

government We have new builds,

new starts at the highest ldvel Under Labour, 13 years in

government, you were building 1 000 At the same time,

allowing mass immigration. You don't have to be Einstehn to

work out there will not be dnough I think everyone in the Labour Party

at knowledges that not enough was done during the time

in Government. The House building at the moment is

the lowest since the 1920s `nd yet we have got those kind of pressures

that we saw in the film on families. If you spoke to any councillors

in Bristol, they would hear from people all the

time about the real impact, families who have to live separately because

they are living with their parents There is always local opposhtion

to building a house. Modern houses look so drearx

and they are little boxes. We object to change because

change is rubbish, it is ustally It would be wonderful

if we could build houses whhch were inspiring places, we could lake

communities which are reallx great. The legislation has

not allowed them to. One of the things we have in Bristol

and I know the mayor has looked at it is that there are 6,000

planning permissions The Labour Shadow Cabinet is

looking at saying, really, developers ought to use it or lose

it. There ought to be some recolpense

so that we can make sure th`t developers do build those

properties. Do you think getting tough

will work? What she's talking

about using or use it, it is looking at something xou are

looking at as a Coalition? I think we need to do

is to tackle supply issues not just across the buying sector

but the renting sector. The Coalition government ard

working hard to do that. It is fantastic we have got Kevin

here today. He was appointed by the Coalition

government, he is a champion for enabling people to build under

the right circumstances. You might think that with tdlevision

shows like Kevin's never far from our screens, we would be

enthusiastic The latest statistics show the

Government It needs twice as many

of us to pick up our tools. Is your current home looking

a little shabby? Or perhaps you want to wash

your hands of that avocado suite. Well, the Government wants those

thinking of moving to be inspired Tired of conventional homes, and

with next to no DIY experience, he I had the choice of

either buying a city centre flat This is a lot more interesthng

and challenging and more rewarding It is taken two years in

spite of holding down a full`time It is en vogue in France

and Germany, where 50% But here, it seems,

it is just not our cup of tda. The idea about building

your own home, I think, is hgnited But the hurdles for it to h`ppen,

I think, one, two or five years

down the line, are then going out

and buying an existing housd because land has not become available

for them to do the project. Back when the Coalition was formed,

the Government promised to double the number of self build holes being

built within a decade. The number was just over 10,000

in that year. However, last year, that figure

had slumped to just over 8,000. So the self`build Revolution is

yet to really raise the roof. Add this self build advice centre

in Swindon, we hear many thdories I don't think

the message has even begun xet. I still think that first`tile buyers

and first`time movers have no concept that self build could be

a solution for them. Self build could make housing much

more affordable at those two crucial levels,

first`time buyers, first`tile Because self build enables people to

make a financial gain in thd value of their property instantly, as

a reward for the effort thex put in. Communities of self build homes

like this one in Bristol, The Government is now targeting

its efforts on a halfway hotse. ?150 million has been found

for custom`built homes, that is where you choose yotr home

from a developer's catalogud But the lack of land remain is

a fundamental problem. So we are certainly challenging

everyone in the public sector to look at their land holdings

and see what can be made av`ilable both for affordable housing and for

customised and self build as well. We are thinking

about introducing something which exists on the continent where

a resident is able to say to the local authority, "I want to build

my own home, but I need the land to At the moment,

that doesn't exist in Britahn. But Labour says that

doesn't go far enough. It would force land banking

developers to use Politicians of all colours seem to

be falling over themselves to appeal Hoping they, like Adam here,

build homes to help ease But, for the time being, most

of us seem quite content to watch stories like this one on fold in

the comfort of our own armchairs. I wouldn't know where to st`rt

building my own home and I think a lot of my fellow citizens fdel the

same. There are around 4 million people

in the UK who want to build their That is a huge number,

that is a massive... They are not doing it because

of many issues, land is a bhg one, the availability of land,

or people sitting on their land The homes and communities

agency, the Government arm for the disposal of government land

has been instructed to sell land to make it available for self build

and yet not much has happendd. Local authorities have been mandated

in the National Planning Policy Framework to get out there

and survey every community in the UK to find out who w`nts

a self`build property. The trouble is,

we watch your programme, which we absolutely love, btt every

week it is a drama, isn't it? The build goes wrong,

the architect is ridiculous. All these odd people

and it is always, It's storytelling on television

come on! In real life, the process c`n be

de`risked, it can be de`strdssed. For heaven's sake, right now

in Bristol, a self build agency are

organising with ex`servicemdn, many of whom have been

on the streets, without a home, who It is a process

which can be really empowerhng, it can be enjoyable and if you hand's

held with the developer and a good But you could lose everything,

couldn't you? If you're working with

a conventional house`builder and you're going the custom`built route,

which is the route that manx people do, as in the film, you end up with

a contract, home that has bden built for you to your taste and your

design, it is a really uniqte place. We will see it, it will takd

a while, we will see change. In terms of the community sdlf build

and the ex`servicemen project, I have been to the first ond and I

was at the presentation last time. They are small numbers

but they are very specific `bout the needs and those are, it is not

just providing people with ` home or with an address, which actu`lly

means that you can then participate the skills they learn

while they are building the home. Should councils be

forced to provide land? Say I want to build my own house,

should I be able to go to the council and say,

"Will you find me some land please?" One of the things the Coalition

government is looking at is putting something into

the national framework to insist on provision of sites for custom`built,

I'd draw a distinction betwden The example in the video tape was

of extreme DIY, the individtal Custom builders more

about making the local... As Kevin alluded to, the holes and

communities agency has been tasked We need to make sure within

a Coalition government that they There is work that needs to be done

around the availability of land We about to go into consult`tion as

a government on the right to build, to look at whether we can, `s you

suggested force councils to identify sites and say, "I want to btild

a house that meets my needs and the "needs of my family

and my community here," and we The localism act and everything

about the National Planning Policy Framework tries to drive control

back to communities. My business have been working

in parts of Bristol, walking into communities and saying,

"what do you want? And from that point,

starting to try and figure out how developers and local authorhties

might deliver what committeds want Just give us a ballpark figtre

if someone wanted to custom build It is likely to cost slightly

less than buying it on spec. But

the thing is you get better value. You get a

better built house, you get a Green home that will cost less to run you

will end up with perhaps solething much more tailored, a much greater

value in the end, because it is better built and it is disthnctive

and something which will brhng you I think in discussion about numbers

and planning, we forget the value They do this in Germany and France,

do you think this is a Brithsh I think, to repeat the commdnt

about it, I think for specific areas there is a self

build scheme that has been there It is because they weren't big

enough houses for bigger falilies and so a group of big familhes who

were on the council waiting list got together, work with the housing

association and build that scheme. On the continent, people rent until

they are in a position to bty their There was a project of 4,000

homes just outside of Amsterdam There are the building

groups of Berlin, 10,000 people have got involved in those groups now and

although each country operates under completely different regimes and

circumstances, in this country we have the potential and alre`dy

across this region and in places like Bicester, we're seeing projects

coming forward for 200, 500 homes. Thank you.

Great pleasure to meet you. We live in a world

of sound bites and tweets, so we decided to condense the West's

political news into 60 seconds. Health campaigners have cause

to celebrate after attempts to part privatise a North Somerset

hospital were scrapped. Private firms have put

in bids to manage Western Gdneral but it was decided that another

NHS Trust should be showed chosen to This illegal camp

on green belt land near Bath will be replaced with a permanent home

for Gypsies and Travellers. Councillors voted through

controversial plans to set tp 1 permanent pitches at a cost

of around ?2 million. Parents from south Gloucestdr

have launched a legal challdnge against the ban on taking children

out of school during term thme. The group, parents want a s`y,

are angry at the school fires being h`nded out

to parents who break the rules. And

a Bristol boy made good camd back to Sajid Javid is now the

Culture Secretary but he was brought up in more humble

surroundings above his family's Helen, I am told that in

a former life you were a te`cher. What do you think

about finding parents for t`king Well, there is no doubt the place

our children ought to be ushng school in term time but I think it

is a blunt instrument, isn't it Parents who can afford very

expensive holidays, it is no problem to then to add

on the cost of the fine. Unfortunately,

there are holiday firms who are offering to pay the cost

of the fine, which cannot bd right. Would you encourage someone or say

to someone, "All right, I think that the people who are best

placed to decide what is right for their particular childrdn are

generally the parents. Obviously, there will be extreme is

where that may not be the case that I would agree that we

should not have blunt instrtments. I want parents to make the sensible,

responsible decisions that `re And that is just about it

from our Bristol studio this week. You can always catch up with

this part of the show again. my guests. That is it for the Sunday

Politics in London. Back to Andrew. Is enough being done to

tackle extremism in schools? Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker,

will make we are joined by the founder of the

Quilliam Association. If you read the Sunday Telegraph this morning,

there is a real problem. If you read the Observer, there is not much of a

problem. What is the situation in your view in Birmingham? Allegations

are seen to be -- if music was not being taught as it should be.

Instead of the rating the national holidays here during the Christmas

period, children were sent off instead on religious pilgrimage to

Mecca, then I think something is going on. From my knowledge, I know

about some of the strategies to influence. These strategies are

known as gradualism. The idea, like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is

to join the institutions of society and influence from within -- from

within. It is a gradual approach to Islamicisation society. We have seen

that happening in other areas, such as the decision by the Law Society

to call it shy and issue it out as guidance for solicitors. They are

saying this means that women inherit half of what men

saying this means that women inherit and adopted children do not get any

inheritance. Apostates do not get any inheritance. These are

guidelines being issued by the Law Society by Islamic. It is a medieval

take on Islam. That is what is meant. We see the same names popping

up again and again in different situations in Birmingham. Is it a

planned infiltration? In my profession of you and

planned infiltration? In my profession of you having spent 3

years on the leadership of an Islamist organisation, having been

involved Islamist organisation, having been

and setting up schools, I am very Islamist organisation, having been

certain is a deliberate plan to influence the students of this

country with a medieval interpretation of my own faith to

bring about a medieval, conservative view, and enforce things like

segregation on boys and girls within our public institutions. With these

things be acceptable if they were explicitly they schools? If they

were state. We had state Anglican faith schools. We have state

Catholic faith schools as well. Would it be acceptable if these were

state Islamic schools? That is a policy question. I am not generally

in favour. I would believe in this establishment. I am not a fan of

faith schools. I do think the solution is to ban them. I do think

these schools should start working out with an engaging with the wider

communities and not being insular and looking inwards. It is very

important. The Ofsted report is coming out tomorrow. We have already

had a taste about what it is saying about some of the schools. Is it a

serious problem? It is a very serious problem. It comes from the

segregation of children into intensely populated areas where

everyone is Muslim virtually. You have to have a system of spreading

children between schools. It very often happens, even with a secular

school like this. Nearby Catholic or Church of England schools become

like-for-like schools and that leaves the rest of the state schools

to become all of one faith. I think all of the parties are being quite

hypocritical about the profound problem of continuing to have faith

schools. You have Orthodox Jewish schools with extraordinary dogma

being taught. Indeed very strict Catholic schools with amazing dogma

being taught. To somehow only get worried when it is Islamic, when it

is Muslim schools, becomes a problem. You have to look at the

whole issue and said the state should simply withdraw from the

business of faith education. Like France? Yes, a secular school. The

overall government policy is to take power away. The dilemma with that is

that it comes with dangers. Some schools will be incompetent and some

schools will be more than incompetent, they will be maligned

in some respects. The one bit of this policy which has never been

entirely squared is how do you devolve and retain a basic minimum

of educational standards and behavioural standards while doing

it? There is an even deeper quandary for Britain. We have prided

ourselves on allowing radical views that stop short of violence. We took

on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe would not have him. The rest of

Europe could not believe how tolerably well of radical preachers

in the 1990s. Do we stick with that view? The risks were greater than

they were 100 years ago. We do expect, whatever peoples faith, that

our children, at the expense of the taxpayer, are educated, not

instructed, not indoctrinated, educated. We do expect that and also

that boys and girls are treated equally. One of the things the board

in Birmingham will be looking at which has Andrew Mitchell on it the

former development Secretary, because he is a Birmingham MP full

Sutton, they are really concerned about whether the girls are being

treated as second-class citizens. There has been a lot of work done on

empowerment of girls. Shirley Williams made the point that what

Michael Gove has done by creating free schools and academies is

undermined the work of local education authorities. They think

they are traditional bodies which are not open to reform. One school

in Birmingham which is accused of being in trouble is a local

education school. They cannot have the other side. Under Michael Gove,

they are answerable to the Secretary of State. It is down to Ofsted.

Ofsted is giving the schools, not that long ago, outstanding marks.

There are big questions about the oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt

was trying to answer that point By tapping it cannot all have gone pear

shaped in two years. How do you think that will play out? -- it

cannot have gone pear shaped. The story was broken in February. It

will keep playing out. The report that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow

or Monday. Then there is the other report that will look into wider

questions, that will come out in July, I think. We are expecting two

points. -- reports. We have to look at questions of Ofsted and other

institutions in our society, even government departments, where idea

of taxing non-violent extremism became a too boot in this country.

-- a taboo. They must be rebuffed the challenge, as we would expect

racism to be challenged. In the argument between Michael Gove and

Theresa May, where do you side? They should be challenged openly and

robust leap by civilian society It was settled by the Prime Minister

and is government policy. I had a hand in advising or consulting. I

think Fiona Cunningham was forced to resign because what she did violates

official government policy. It just has not been implemented yet. Will

Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke? You'll agree he have to decide

whether he will spirit at stopping him or accepting him as commission

president and ask in return for a massive commission portfolio for

Britain, something like the internal market, which they missed out on

last time. It is a diplomatic decision he have to make. It is too

late for that he is into deep. If he takes over the job, Cameron is left

with egg on its face. From the beginning, he did not have his voice

with the weight of the British Conservative Party, with ankle and

Arkle, the rest of them. He is reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest

of them. He is reaping that reward. There is a lot of support within

Europe. In Germany, there was a lot of opposition to David Cameron

getting his way. I know him from Brussels. He is entertaining, you go

to dinner with him and he smokes and drinks. He is entertaining but he is

the most awful person you could think of having trying to sort of

symbolise a new European Union. I remember I was there join the

Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when the voters in France and the

Netherlands voted no to the European constitution, what was his response

to that? Let's carry on with the ratification process of this treaty

that has been comprehensively rejected by voters. He did not say

the final bit of that sentence. You can see why Eurosceptics want him.

He has blown a raspy at all the people who have protested at the

elections with the way the European Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry.

This is your most popular... What has come in most recently is doing

really well. This is yours. There we go. Cheers! By our people so

cynical? They always go for a drink at 11am and they pull their own

pipes. I see them every day. -- pts. Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is

to mark the idea is to define clearly a liberal brand, or at least

I hope it is. It is not good enough for us to say the Liberal Democrats

challenge the Tories on this, on the fairer society, and challenge the

Labour Party on a strong economy. We need to define what we stand for.

That is what I call a liberal brand, assertive liberalism. I have been

there myself and I think that is what he will be speaking about.

Standing up for liberal values, to finding -- defining what they are.

Disestablishment in getting younger people re-engage with politics. The

overwhelming number are actually liberal. We only have about 20

seconds. I suggest to you it is too late. Sign up with the one principle

on which he stood is Europe. -- the one principle on which he stood if

Europe. That is why he has been doing so badly. He cannot get out of

the hole he is in. If you fight three general elections to the left

of Labour and on the third when you are in coalition with the Tories,

you have got a problem. I will be back next week. Remember if it is

Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. What's the hardest thing

about being a foster parent? You're constantly trying

to build the elusive trust. It's like a big old question mark

in your heart. I just try and do the best I can

for them while they're with me