Browse content similar to 20/11/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Theresa May says she'll deliver on Brexit but does that mean leaving | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
the EU's Single Market and the Customs Union? | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
Tory MPs campaign for a commitment from the Prime | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
The Chancellor pledges just over a billion pounds worth of spending | :00:51. | :01:02. | |
on Britain's roads but is that it or will there be | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
Their last leader was just 18 days in the job. | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
In the West, inside Donald Trump 's private quarters. We catch tp with | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
one of the very in London: Is the battle for | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
Richmond Park based on the skies? Or is it about a bigger conflict in | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
Europe? And with me - as always - | :01:30. | :01:37. | |
and, no, these three aren't doing the Mannequin challenge - | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
it's our dynamic, demonstrative dazzling political panel - | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
Helen Lewis, Isabel Oakeshott and Tom Newton Dunn they'll also be | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
tweeting throughout the programme. First this morning - | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
Theresa May has said "Brexit means Brexit" - | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
but can the Prime Minister - who was on the Remain side | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
of argument during the referendum Well, Leave-supporting Tory | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
MPs are re-launching the "European Research Group" this | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
morning to keep Mrs May's feet Are you worried that you cannot | :02:10. | :02:25. | |
trust Theresa May until payment to deliver full Brexit was Magellan | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
like I totally trust Theresa May, 100% behind her. She has displayed a | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
massive amount of commitment to making a success of Brexit for the | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
country. We don't know that yet, because | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
nothing has happened. Why, then have you formed a pressure group? We | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
were fed up with the negativity coming out around Brexit. I feel | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
positive about the opportunities we face, and we are a group to provide | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
suggestions. Who do you have in mind when you talk about negativity the | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
Chancellor? No, from the Lib Dems, for example, from Labour MPs. This | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
is a pressure group for leaving membership of the single market and | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
customs union, correct? That is what we are proposing. It has a purpose | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
other than just to combat negativity. When it comes to | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
membership of the single market and the customs union, can you tell us | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
what Government policy is towards both or either? Rightly, the | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
Government hasn't made the position clear, and I think that is the right | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
approach, because we don't want to review our negotiating hand. What | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
we're saying... I'm not asking what you are saying. Can you tell us what | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
Government policy is towards membership of these institutions? | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
The Government wants to make sure British businesses have the right to | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
trade with EU partners, to forge new trade deals with the rest of the | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
world. We hope to Reza may speak at Mansion house this week. -- we had | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
Theresa May speak at Mansion house this week. She has been clear, | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
saying it was not a binary choice. And she's right. Let's run that | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
tape, because I want to pick up on what she did say. This is what she | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
had to say about the customs union at Prime Minister's Question Time. | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
On the whole question of the customs union, trading relationships that we | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
have with the European Union and other parts of the world once we | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
have left the European Union, we are preparing carefully for the formal | :04:33. | :04:42. | |
negotiations. We are preparing carefully for the formal | :04:43. | :04:44. | |
negotiations. We want to ensure we have the best possible trading deal | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
with the EU once we have left. Do you know what she means when she | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
says being in the customs union is not a binary choice? I think she's | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
right when she says that. At the moment, and you know this, as long | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
as we are in the customs union, we cannot set our own tariffs or rules, | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
cannot have a free trade agreement with the US or China. We need to | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
leave a customs union to do that. Binary means either you are in or | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
you are out, self which is it? We still want to trade with the EU and | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
I think we can have a free trade agreement with the EU. That is a | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
separate matter, and it has to do with the single market. What about | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
the customs union? We need to leave the customs union. We do it and | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
properly. That is how to get the most out of this opportunity. Summit | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
is a binary choice? The Prime Minister is right when she says it's | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
not a binary choice. Both can't be right. We can leave the customs | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
union, get their benefits, and have a free trade agreement with zero | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
tariffs with the EU. So it is a binary choice an either be stale | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
really. Yellow like I am saying the Prime Minister is right when she | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
says it is not a binary choice. -- I am saying the Prime Minister is | :06:08. | :06:14. | |
right. We need clarity. Youth had said -- you have said it is a binary | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
choice. We need to leave the constraints of the customs union. It | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
pushes up prices. The EU is not securing the right trade deals, and | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
if we want to make the most of it, we need to get out there and get | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
some deals going. Do you accept that if we remain in the customs union, | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
we cannot do our own free-trade deals? Yellow right 100%. That is | :06:37. | :06:52. | |
why we have to leave. -- 100%. Do you accept that if we leave the | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
customs union but stay with substantial access, I don't say | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
membership, but substantial access to the single market, that goods | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
going from this country to the single market because we're no | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
longer in the union will be subject to complicated rules of origin | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
regulations, which could cost business ?13 billion a year? I would | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
like to see a free-trade agreement between the UK and the EU. Look at | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
the Canadian deal. I give you that, but if we're not in the customs | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
union, things that we bring in on our own tariffs once we've left we | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
can't just export again willy-nilly to the EU. They will demand to see | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
rules of origin. Norway has to do that at the moment and it is highly | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
complicated expensive. I think if we agree a particular arrangement as | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
part of this agreement with the EU, we can reach an agreement on that | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
which sets a lower standard, which sets a different level of tariffs, | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
which protects some of our industries. Let's suppose we have | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
pretty much free trade with the EU but we are out of the customs union, | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
and let's suppose that the European Union has a 20% tariff on Japanese | :08:08. | :08:16. | |
whisky and we decide to have a % tariff - what then happens to the | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
whisky that comes into Britain and goes on to the EU? The EU will not | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
let that in. That will be part of the negotiation. I think there is a | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
huge benefit for external operators. Every bottle of Japanese whisky | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
they will have to work out the rules of origin. There have been studies | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
that show there is a potential for 50% increase in global product if we | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
leave. We're losing the benefits of free trade. I understand, I am | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
asking for your particular view Thank you for that. | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
Is it not surprising Mr Hannan could not bring himself to say we would | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
leave the customs union? It is messy. The reason there is this new | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
group of Tory MPs signing up to a campaign to make sure we get a | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
genuine Brexit is because there is this vacuum. It is being filled with | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
all sorts of briefing from the other side. There is a real risk in the | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
minds of Brexit supporting MPs that the remaining side are going to try | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
to hijack the process, not only through the Supreme Court action, | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
which I think most Brexit MPs seem to accept the appeal will fail, but | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
further down the line, through amendments to the great repeal bill. | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
This is a pressure group to try to hold the Prime Minister to account. | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
There is plenty of pressure on the Prime Minister effectively to stay | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
in the single market and the customs union, and if you do both of these | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
things, de facto, you have stayed in the EU. She is in a difficult | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
position because there is no good faith assumption about what Theresa | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
May wants because she was a Remainer. There is all this talk | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
about a transitional arrangement, but she can't sell that as someone | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
who voted to remain. The way Isabel has characterised it is interesting. | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
There is a betrayal narrative. Everyone is looking to say that she | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
has betrayed the true Brexit. Since the Government cannot give a clear | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
indication of what it once in terms of the customs union, which sets | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
external tariffs, or the single market, which is the free movement | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
of people, capital, goods and services, others are filling this | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
vacuum. Right. The reasons they can't do this are, first, they don't | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
know if they can get it or not. We saw this with the renegotiation the | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
last Prime Minister. What are they hoping to get? The world on a stick, | :10:53. | :11:03. | |
to get cake and eat it. You go into a negotiation saying, let's see what | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
we can get in total. Are they going to ask the membership of the single | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
market? Yellow I think they will ask for a free trade agreement involving | :11:12. | :11:23. | |
everything. You can demand what you want. The question is, do they stand | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
a cat's chance in hell of getting it? They don't know. Welcome back. | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
We will be back, believe me. It is 150 day since we found out the UK | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
had voted to leave the EU, but as we have heard, remain and leave | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
campaigners continue to battle about what type of relationship we should | :11:46. | :11:47. | |
have with the EU after exit. Leave campaigners say | :11:48. | :11:55. | |
that leaving the EU also means quitting | :11:56. | :11:57. | |
Single Market, the internal European trading bloc that includes free | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
movement of goods, services, capital and people. | :12:01. | :12:01. | |
They point to evidence that leading Leave supporting | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
politicians ruled out staying in the Single Market during | :12:04. | :12:05. | |
Andrea Leadsom, for example, said it would almost | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
certainly be the case that the UK would come out of the Single Market. | :12:09. | :12:17. | |
When asked for a yes or no on whether the UK should stay | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
"No, we should be outside the Single Market." | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
And Boris Johnson agreed with his erstwhile ally, saying, "Michael | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
Gove was absolutely right to say the UK | :12:29. | :12:30. | |
They've released a video of clips of Leave campaigners speaking before | :12:31. | :12:41. | |
the referendum apparently saying that the UK should stay in the | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
Nigel Farage, for example, once said that on leaving | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
the EU we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
Owen Paterson, the former Environment Secretary, | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
once made the startling statement that only a madman would actually | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
And Matthew Elliott, the Vote Leave chief, said | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
that the Norwegian option would be initially attractive for some | :13:05. | :13:06. | |
But do these quotes create an accurate picture of what | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
To cast some light on where these quotes came from we're | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
joined by James McGrory, director of Open Britain | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. . Your video has statements from leave | :13:21. | :13:34. | |
campaigners hinting they want to stay in the single market. How many | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
were made during the referendum campaign? I don't know. Not one was | :13:38. | :13:45. | |
made during the referendum campaign. Indeed, only two of the 12 | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
statements were recorded after Royal assent had been given to the | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
referendum. Only one was made this year before the referendum. | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
Throughout the campaign am a leave campaigners lauded the Norwegian | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
model. Norway are in the single market but not in the EU. They went | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
out of their way not to be pinned down on a specific trading | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
arrangement they want to see in the future with Europe, when the | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
Treasury model the different models it was the EEA or a free-trade | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
agreement. I understand. Does it not undermine your case that none of the | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
12 statements on your video were made during the campaign itself | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
when people were giving really serious thought to such matters The | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
Leave campaign weren't giving serious thought to such matters | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
They did not set out the future trading model they wanted to see. | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
But you cannot produce a single video with somebody saying we should | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
stay in the single market during the campaign. Daniel Hanna had talked | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
about the Norwegian model as a future option. One comment from | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
Nigel Farage dates back to 2009 when we didn't even know if we would | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
have a referendum or not. Does it not stretch credibility to go back | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
to the time when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister? The overall point | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
stands. It is not supposed to be an exhaustive list of the options. | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
Daniel Hannan, described as the intellectual godfather of the Leave | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
movement is saying that no one is talking about threatening our place | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
in the signal market. I think it's legitimate to point out the Leave | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
campaign never came forward with a credible argument. We have | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
highlighted some of the quotes you picked out from leave campaigners | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
over time. Do you think you have fully encapsulated their arguments | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
accurately? I don't think in a 2nd video you can talk about the full | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
thing. -- a 90-2nd video. Some of them want to seek a free-trade | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
agreement, some to default on to World Trade Organisation tariffs. | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
There is a range of opinion in the Leave campaign. Let's listen to the | :15:57. | :15:58. | |
clip you used on Owen Paterson first. | :15:59. | :16:00. | |
Only a madman would actually leave the market. | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
Only a madman would actually leave the market. | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
It's not the EU which is | :16:12. | :16:13. | |
a political organisation delivering the prosperity and buying our goods. | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
It's the market, it's the members of the market and we'll carry on | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
I mean, are we really suggesting that the | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
economy in the world is not going to come to come | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
to a satisfactory trading arrangement with the EU? | :16:26. | :16:27. | |
Are we going to be like Sudan and North | :16:28. | :16:29. | |
It is ludicrous this idea that we are going to leap off a | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
What he said when he said only a madman would leave Europe, was that | :16:34. | :16:47. | |
we would continue to trade, we would continue to have access. Any country | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
in the world can have access. What the Leave campaign suggested is our | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
trade would continue uninterrupted, they are still at it today, David | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
Davis used the phrase, uninterrupted, from the dispatch box | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
recently. You misrepresented him by saying only a madman would leave the | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
Single Market and stopped it there, because he goes onto say that of | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
course we want Leave in the sense of continuing to have access. I don't | :17:11. | :17:11. | |
think he was about axis, he is talking | :17:12. | :17:30. | |
about membership. He doesn't use the word membership at all. He talks | :17:31. | :17:32. | |
about we are going to carry on trading with them, we will not leap | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
off, we will carry on trading. Anybody can trade with the EU, it's | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
the terms on which you trade that is important and leave campaigners and | :17:39. | :17:40. | |
Patterson is an example of this saying we can trade as we do now, | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
the government saying we can trade without bureaucratic impediments and | :17:44. | :17:45. | |
tariff free. The viewers will make up their mind. Let's listen to the | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
views of Matthew Elliott, the Chief Executive of Vote Leave. | :17:49. | :17:49. | |
When it comes to the Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
it might be initially attractive for some business people. | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
So you then cut him off there but this is what he went on to say in | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
the same clip, let's listen to that. When it comes to the Norwegian | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initially attractive | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
for some business people. But then again for voters | :18:06. | :18:07. | |
who are increasingly concerned about migration in the EU, | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
they will be very concerned that it allows free movement | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
of people to continue. Again, you have misrepresented him. | :18:14. | :18:25. | |
He said the Norwegian model has attractions but there are real | :18:26. | :18:27. | |
problems if it involves free movement of people, which it does. | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
But you cut that bit out. I challenge anyone to represent them | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
accurately because they took such a range of opinions. I don't know what | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
we are supposed to do. You are misrepresenting them. He is saying | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
the Norwegian option is attractive to business, I understand why. It | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
might not be attractive for voters. But then he said if it allowed free | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
movement of people it could be an issue. You took that out. You are | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
saying this is a definitive position. I'm suggesting you are | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
distorting it. This is what you had Mr Farage say. | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
On D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area | :19:05. | :19:06. | |
This is what he then went on to say in that same clip that you didn t | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
run. There is absolutely | :19:15. | :19:15. | |
nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving | :19:16. | :19:17. | |
the on D+1 we'll find ourselves part | :19:18. | :19:18. | |
of the European Economic Area and we should use our | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
membership of the EEA as a holding position from which | :19:23. | :19:31. | |
we can negotiate as the European Union's biggest export | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
market in the world, as good a deal, my goodness me, | :19:36. | :19:37. | |
if Switzerland can have one we So there again, he says not that we | :19:38. | :19:47. | |
should stay in the Single Market as a member, but that we stay in the EA | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
as a transition until we negotiate something. -- EEA. This whole clip | :19:53. | :20:02. | |
is online, how would you get away with this distortion? It is not a | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
distortion, the whole point is to point out they do not have a | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
definitive position, he is arguing for membership of the Single Market, | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
for a transitional period. For the transition. How long does that go | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
on, what does he want to then achieve? Not very quickly but he | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
does not say we should stay members of the Single Market and you didn't | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
let people see what he went on to say, you gave the impression he | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
wanted to stay in the one it. It would not be a video then, it would | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
be a seven-week long lecture. They took so many positions, and the idea | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
now that they were clear with people that we should definitely leave the | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
Single Market I think is fictitious. You are trying to make out they all | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
had one position which was to remain members of the one it. You see the | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
full clips that is not what they are saying. We are trying to point out | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
there is no mandate to leave the Single Market. The idea the Leave | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
campaign spoke with unanimity and clarity of purpose and throughout | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
the whole campaign said we will definitely leave the Single Market | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
is not true. That is the whole point of the media. We showed in the | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
montage in the video just before we came on, we said that then Prime | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
Minister, the then Chancellor, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, being | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
categorical that if you vote to leave the EU, you vote to leave | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
membership of the Single Market What bit of that didn't you | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
understand? Under duress they occasionally said they wanted to | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
leave. Some of them wanted to leave the Single Market. All of the other | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
promises they made, whether ?35 million for the NHS, whether a VAT | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
cut on fuel, points-based system. You do not have a single quote of | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
any of these members saying they want to be a member. Daniel Hannan | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
has said consistently that Norway are a part of the Single Market You | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
spend the referendum campaign criticising for Rim misrepresenting | :21:47. | :21:48. | |
and misrepresenting and lying and many thought they did. Having seen | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
this many will conclude that you are the biggest liars. I think it is | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
perfectly reasonable to point out that the Leave campaign did not have | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
a clear position on our future trading relationship with Europe. | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
That is all this video does. It doesn't say we definitely have to | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
stay in the Single Market, it just says they do have a mandate to drag | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
us out of our biggest trading partner. | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
Now people have seen the full quotes in context our viewers will make up | :22:13. | :22:14. | |
their mind. Thank you. Now - voting closes next week | :22:15. | :22:16. | |
in the the Ukip leadership contest. The second Ukip leadership contest | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
this year after the party's first female leader - Diane James - | :22:20. | :22:21. | |
stood down from the role Since then the party's lurched from | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
farce to fiasco. It's a world gripped by uncertainty, | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
split into factions. Yes, 2, because they're | :22:28. | :22:42. | |
having their second Watch as the alpha male, | :22:43. | :22:52. | |
the Ukip leader at Nigel Watch as the alpha male, | :22:53. | :23:00. | |
the Ukip leader Nigel Farage, hands power to the new alpha | :23:01. | :23:02. | |
female Diane James. The European Parliament | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
in Strasbourg, October. Another leading light and possible | :23:06. | :23:19. | |
future leader, the MEP Steven Wolfe, | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
has been laid low after an alleged tussle with a colleague | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
during a meeting. A few days later he is | :23:25. | :23:26. | |
out of hospital and I will be withdrawing my | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
application to become I'm actually withdrawing | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
myself from Ukip. You're resigning from the party | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
I'm resigning with immediate effect. And this week a leaked document | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
suggested the party improperly spent EU funds on political | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
campaigning in the UK. Another headache for whoever takes | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
over the leadership of the pack One contender is Suzanne Evans, | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
a former Tory councillor and was briefly suspended for | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
disloyalty. Also standing, Paul Nuttall, | :24:01. | :24:09. | |
an MEP from Liverpool who has been by Farage's side | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
as his deputy for six years. There's another big beast | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
in the Ukip leadership contest, and I'm told | :24:19. | :24:20. | |
that today he can be spotted He's John Rees-Evans, | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
a businessman and adventurer who is offering members the chance | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
to propose policies via a website We've got really dedicated | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
passionate supporters who feel like they're not really | :24:32. | :24:45. | |
being listened to and are not even Typically what happens | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
is they just basically sit there until six months before | :24:49. | :24:50. | |
a General Election when they are contacted and asked to go out | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
and leaflet and canvas. Even at branch level people feel | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
there is not an adequate flow of communication | :24:57. | :24:58. | |
up-and-down the party. Are you not going to take part in | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
any hustings? He left a hustings saying | :25:01. | :25:09. | |
the contest was an establishment coronation and has | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
made colourful comments in the past. He's in favour of the death penalty | :25:13. | :25:14. | |
for crimes like paedophilia. I think there is a clear | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
will amongst the offences should be dealt with | :25:18. | :25:19. | |
decisively. But again, on an issue like that, | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
that is something that Our members are not | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
going to agree with me on everything and I don't believe that | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
I would have any authority to have the say and determine | :25:32. | :25:33. | |
the future What method would you use | :25:34. | :25:35. | |
for the death penalty? Again, that is something that could | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
be determined by suggestions made So you'd have like an online | :25:40. | :25:41. | |
poll about whether you use the electric chair, | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
or lethal injection? For example, arguments would be made | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
in favour of This is such a small aspect | :25:52. | :25:53. | |
of what I'm standing for. Essentially, in mainstream media | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
they try to by focusing on pretty irrelevant | :25:59. | :26:00. | |
details. This is one vote that | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
the membership would have. What I'm actually trying to do | :26:07. | :26:08. | |
in this party is to revolutionise the democratic | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
process in the UK, and that's really what your viewers should | :26:13. | :26:14. | |
be concentrating on. With him at the helm he reckons Ukip | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
would win at Meanwhile, in New York, | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
on a visit to Trump Tower, Nigel Farage admired the plumage | :26:22. | :26:29. | |
of the President-elect, a man he has described as | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
a silverback gorilla, a friendship that's been condemned by some | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
in this leadership contest. There are also elections | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
to the party's National Executive Committee, a body | :26:44. | :26:45. | |
that's been roundly criticised by And we're joined now by two | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
of the candidates in the Ukip leadership election - | :26:49. | :27:03. | |
Suzanne Evans and Paul Nuttall. We are going to kick off by giving | :27:04. | :27:13. | |
each of them 30 seconds to lay out their case as to why they would be | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
the less leader starting with Suzanne Evans. | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
Ukip is at its best when it is scaring the political establishment, | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
forcing it to address those problems it would rather ignore. But it | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
really change people's lives for the better and fast, we need to win | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
seats and elections right across the country. To win at the ballot box we | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
need to attract more women, more ethnic | :27:34. | :27:53. | |
minorities, and more of those Labour voters who no longer recognise their | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
party. I know how to do that. Ukip under my | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
leadership will be the same page about it, common-sense, radical | :28:00. | :28:01. | |
party it has always been, just even more successful. Thank you, Suzanne | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
Evans, Paul Nuttall. I'm standing on a platform of unity and experience. | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
I believe the party must come together if it is to survive and | :28:07. | :28:08. | |
prosper. I believe I'm the best candidate to ensure that happens, I | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
am not part of any faction in the party, and beyond that I have done | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
every single job within the party, whether that is as head of policy, | :28:15. | :28:16. | |
whether that is Party Chairman, deputy leader for Nigel for the past | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
six years. I believe Ukip has great opportunities in Labour | :28:20. | :28:21. | |
constituencies where we can move in and become the Patriot invoice of | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
working people, and beyond that we have to ensure the government's feet | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
are held to the fire on Brexit and we get real Brexit, not a | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
mealy-mouthed version. How will you get a grip on this? People have to | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
realise that the cause is bigger than any personality, we have to get | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
together in a room and sort out not just a spokespeople role but roles | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
within the organisation, Party Chairman, party secretary, and | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
whatnot. But as I say, Ukip must unite, we are on 13% in the opinion | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
polls, the future is bright, there are open goals but Ukip must be on | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
the pitch to score them. He says he's the only one that can get a | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
grip on this party. I disagree, I have a huge amount of experience in | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
the party as well and also a background that I think means I can | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
help bring people together. I have always said nothing breeds unity | :29:10. | :29:20. | |
faster than success and under my leadership we will be successful. | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
There is concern about the future of our National Executive Committee | :29:24. | :29:25. | |
going forward. Mr Farage called it the lowest grade of people I have | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
ever met, do you agree? I think he must have been having a bad day I | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
think we need to make it more accountable to the membership, more | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
open, more democratic. What would you do with the National Executive | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
Committee? I have been calling for the National Executive Committee to | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
be elected reasonably since 201 giving the members better | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
communication lines and make it far more transparent. Would you have a | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
clear out of the office? I wouldn't, I think the chairman of the party, | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
Paul Upton, the interim chairman, is doing a good job and the only person | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
who has come out of the summer with his reputation enhanced. Let me show | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
you a picture we have all seen of your current leader, Mr Farage, with | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
President-elect Donald Trump. Paul Nuttall, you criticise Mr Farage's | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
decision to appear at rallies during the American election and called Mr | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
Trump appalling. Do you stick by that? I wouldn't have voted for him. | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
I made it clear. Do you still think he's appalling now that he is | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
President-elect? Some of the things he said were appalling during the | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
campaign that he said. But he would be good for Britain, trade, | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
pro-Brexit and he is an Anglo file and the first thing he did was put | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
the bust of Winston Churchill back in the Oval Office. You, Suzanne | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
Evans, called Mr Trump one of the weakest candidates the US has had. I | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
said the same about Hillary Clinton. They cannot both be the weakest The | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
better candidate on either side would have beaten the other, that is | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
quite clear. Do you stand by that, or are you glad that your leader Mr | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
Farage has strong ties to him? I am, why wouldn't I be? For Ukip to have | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
that direct connection, it can be only good for a party. Were you not | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
out of step and Mr Farage is in step because it looks like your vote is | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
according to polling I have seemed like Mr Trump and his policies? Let | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
me finish. If I am the leader of Ukip I will not be involving myself | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
in foreign elections, I will because in trading here in this country | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
ensuring we get Ukip people elected to council chambers and get seats in | :31:25. | :31:25. | |
2020. The other thing your leader has in | :31:26. | :31:35. | |
common with Mr Trump is that he rather admires Vladimir Putin. Do | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
you? I don't. If you look at Putin's record, he has invaded Ukraine and | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
Georgia. I am absolutely not a fan. I think that Vladimir Putin is | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
pretty much a nasty man, but beyond that, I believe that in the Middle | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
East, he is generally getting it right in many areas. We need to | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
bring the conflict... Bombing civilians? We need to bring the | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
conflict to an end as fast as possible. The British and American | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
line before Donald Trump is to support rebels, including one is | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
affiliated to Al-Qaeda, to the Taliban. We need to clear these | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
people out and ensure that Syria becomes stable. This controversial | :32:24. | :32:32. | |
breaking point poster from during the referendum campaign. Mr Farage | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
unveiled it, there he is standing in front of it. You can bend it - do | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
you still? Yes, I think it was the wrong poster at the wrong time. I | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
was involved with the vote Leave campaign as well as Ukip's campaign, | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
and I felt strongly that those concerned about immigration were | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
already going to vote to leave because it was a fundamental truth | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
that unless we left the European Union we couldn't control | :32:57. | :32:58. | |
immigration. I thought it was about approaching those soft wavering | :32:59. | :33:07. | |
voters who weren't sure. I don't think I said it was racist, but it | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
was about sovereignty and trade and so forth. That was where we needed | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
to go. I was concerned it might put off some of those wavering voters. | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
People may well say, it was part of the winning campaign. It was Ukip | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
shock and all, which is what you stand for and what makes you | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
different. I said I would know how that I said I would not have gone | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
for that person and I thought it was wrong to do it just a week out from | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
the referendum. However, I believe it released legitimate concerns | :33:40. | :33:46. | |
with a deluge of people making their way from the Middle East and Africa | :33:47. | :33:53. | |
into the European continent. Where is the low hanging fruit for you, | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
particularly in England? Is it Labour or Conservative voters? I | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
want to hang onto the Conservative voters we have got but I think the | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
low hanging fruit is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn won't sing the national | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
anthem, Emily Thornbury despises the English flag. Diane Abbott thinks | :34:13. | :34:15. | |
anyone talking about immigration is racist. Not to mention John | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
McDonnell's feelings about the IRA. Labour has ceased to be a party for | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
working people and I think Ukip is absolutely going to be that party. | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
It is clear, I absolutely concur with everything Suzanne has said. I | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
first voiced this back in 2008 that I believe Ukip has a fantastic | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
opportunity in working-class communities, and everyone laughed at | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
me. It is clear now that we resonate with working people, and you have | :34:43. | :34:45. | |
seen that in the Brexit result. Would you bring back the death | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
penalty? It wouldn't be Ukip policy. Absolutely not. Would you give more | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
money to the NHS and how would your fanatic? You like it is important to | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
fund it adequately, and it hasn t been to date. We promised in our | :35:01. | :35:09. | |
manifesto that we would give more money. Where does the money come | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
from? It is about tackling health tourism. I think the NHS is being | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
taken for a ride at the moment. That may be right, but where does the | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
money come from? It is about scaling back management in the NHS, because | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
that has burgeoned beyond control. They are spending far more money on | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
management. Where would you save money? We need to look at HS two, | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
foreign aid. Now we have Brexit and we will be saving on the membership | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
fee. We need to cut back on management, as Suzanne says. It | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
cannot be right that 51% of people who work for the NHS in England are | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
not clinically qualified. The NHS needs money now - where would you | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
get it? From HS two. That is capital spending spread over a long period. | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
Where will you get the money now? OK, another one. We spent ?25 | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
million every day on foreign aid to countries who sometimes are richer | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
than ourselves. Through the Barnett formula. You would take money away | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
from Scotland? Yes, I think they get far too much. PG tips or Earl Grey? | :36:19. | :36:34. | |
Colegrave. PG tips. Strictly come dancing or X Factor? Neither. | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
Strictly. I would love to be on it one day. There you go. Thank you | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :36:52. | :36:53. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead. | :36:54. | :37:23. | |
Hello and welcome to the part of the Sunday Politics local | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
Coming up, we talk trains as the West's electric | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
Overbudget and delayed, the government has shunted some | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
of the electrification of the Great Western | :37:40. | :37:41. | |
And ever wanted to step inside Donald Trump's | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
We hear from someone who has popped into Trump Tower only this week | :37:46. | :37:53. | |
It's like walking into Tutankhamun's live home and everything is opulent. | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
It looks bling but at the s`me time it kind of works, | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
And from the Trump to our lhttle dump, but we like it | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
here at Broadcasting House and in the studio with me this week | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
two men who are still waiting for their invite from Mr Trtmp. | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
They are the Conservative MP for Wells James Heappey, | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
and the former Mayor of Bristol George Ferguson. | :38:24. | :38:25. | |
Mr Ferguson it's good to sed you again after a bit of a gap. | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
I want to talk about money first of all because the new mayor has | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
been going around trying to find ways of filling the budget. | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
You left him with no cash didn't you? | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
I cut enormous amounts out of the system. | :38:45. | :38:46. | |
I think it's a political tr`dition to look to the last administration | :38:47. | :38:54. | |
but I have to say that I thhnk Marvin has behaved impeccably. | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
I don't think he's been trying to blame me. | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
I knew that we were going to have to take about 600 jobs | :39:01. | :39:09. | |
But we had to meet the challenge that central | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
I can't remember you saying that during the election | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
I knew that we were going to have to. | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
I made it very clear that we were going to have | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
to make more savings and I made that very clear. | :39:27. | :39:28. | |
Post election somebody came up with 1000 jobs but if you look | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
at the reality it's not going to be a thousand jobs. | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
James, this is another example of austerity. | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
The new mayor is very keen for the government not to m`ke cuts | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
because he says they producd further costs further down the road. | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
Why can't local government be funded properly? | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
It's interesting to hear big cities worrying about their funding. | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
The real injustice in local government funding is the w`y that | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
budgets are being cut more puickly for rural county councils | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
Yes there is the issue of atsterity and the fact that budgets | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
are being driven across the piste but actually the cuts that county | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
councils in rural areas like Somerset are being askdd | :40:16. | :40:17. | |
to make are far greater than those in the cities. | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
I have just been made chair of the rural fair share campaign | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
in Parliament and I'm going to make sure that rural areas like Somerset | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
Sometimes that might need to be the case. | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
Cities have by far the biggdst social issues to deal | :40:32. | :40:33. | |
with and so I think there is a real need. | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
I would argue that in some ways when it is concentrated depravation | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
it's easier to tackle than when you have isolated | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
But that may be for another show perhaps. | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
Another hour, that would be generous! | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
The question was briefly about austerity and do | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
Why not fund all local government properly? | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
I think there is an argument for taking advantage of low | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
interest rates in order to invest in infrastructure. | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
We are talking about rail l`ter on and that is a great example | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
of where I think the governlent could make a business case for it. | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
But borrowing to spend is quite reckless. | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
So you support austerity but you don't support cuts? | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
I think in the autumn statelent we will see some borrowing | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
for infrastructure but not for in year spending. | :41:23. | :41:24. | |
When the electrification of the Great Western Railwax | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
was announced Her Majesty's opposition warned it would put | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
That was the Conservatives back in 2009 when they were in opposition. | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
But under their watch in government the costs has soared by mord | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
than ?1 billion and everythhng is running years behind schddule. | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
We have set aside the money because this is an important | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
Faster, cheaper and also in the long run greener. | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
The fanfare when government announced that costly | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
electrification of the GWR and the warnings that came | :42:01. | :42:02. | |
The government are finding ht by maxing out Network Rail's credit | :42:03. | :42:09. | |
card which will be left with the taxpayer to meet the bill | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
ultimately because the taxp`yer guarantees Network Rail's ddbts | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
So it was halted when they got into power a year later before | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
being relaunched by an up and coming Conservative Transport Secrdtary. | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
This is literally a New Age of rail in Britain. | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
The deal he agreed has gone horribly wrong. | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
The National Audit Office s`y there are delays | :42:35. | :42:36. | |
The cost of electrification has soared by ?1.2 billion. | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
It talks of the Department for Transport's failure to plan | :42:44. | :42:45. | |
and manage any sufficiently joined a boy. | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
But the heaviest criticism is of Network Rail. | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
As rail Minister until the summer clear Perry frequently found herself | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
in the firing line but over electrification she feels able | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
I wrestled with this years as a minister and you are rhght | :42:58. | :43:06. | |
what we have all collectively realised is we have to hold | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
Network Rail much more closely to account. | :43:11. | :43:12. | |
So they have got to improve the way they deliver this money. | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
But equally I don't want government writing them a blank cheque. | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
Electrification has been put on hold between Bath and central | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
That has alarmed everyone from passengers to | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
If they don't run all the w`y to Bristol, what's the point? | :43:28. | :43:36. | |
I think they need to get on and get the job done. | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
It seems to be something th`t written can't do. | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
We cant keep projects on time and on budget. | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
Customers will be disappointed again that we have seen another | :43:47. | :43:48. | |
However, the work we have done with the Department for Transport | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
over the last 12 months means that it will have minimal effect | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
on the benefits they expect to deliver customers | :43:58. | :43:58. | |
which we still expect to deliver by 2019 and what's really ilportant | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
is that we don't see any further delays. | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
Twice this week in Parliament MP3s concerns with the | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
I'm not happy about the way in which the modernisation | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
of the electrification programme has been managed but I'm committed | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
to making sure this project is delivered and the improvdments it | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
The official position is th`t electrification is still pl`nned | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
for lines in and out of Temple Meads and it's hoped it | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
But with all the new trains being converted to also run on didsel | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
given the fact that electric trains could actually couldn't acttally run | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
any faster on the twisting tracks around Bristol, | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
many experts have told me they don't electrification | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
I think it's rather ironic that Bristol was a green city in 201 , | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
green city of Europe, and yet they don't have a | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
Bristol people should be very unhappy and they need to sedk a date | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
when they can firmly expect to be electrified. | :44:59. | :45:00. | |
The big timetable change with more and faster services at a London | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
A decade after electrificathon was first launched. | :45:05. | :45:12. | |
James, delivering electrification was a key government promisd. | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
It would appear that Network Rail and the DFT have made a real mess | :45:17. | :45:24. | |
It's not just about the journey times from Paddington | :45:25. | :45:31. | |
to Bristol Temple Meads because I accept bimodal tr`ins | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
will probably go the last fdw miles between Bath and Bristol | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
at just the same speed as an electric one word. | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
Actually, the really big impact here is the deferral of parts | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
of the electrification programme in the Thames Valley means | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
that the rolling stock that should have been coming down | :45:49. | :45:50. | |
from the Thames Valley to sort out capacity issues here in Bristol | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
won't come which means that down in Devon and Cornwall they won't get | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
the rolling stock we have here to sort out their capacity | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
This is a huge problem that has knock-on effects across our region | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
and I am really angry that we find ourselves in this position. | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
Just remind me who owns Network Rail. | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
You interrupted me just as I was about to say it. | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
And I'm angry at the Department for Transport. | :46:21. | :46:22. | |
I have made that clear in Parliament. | :46:23. | :46:24. | |
Network Rail is owned by the government? | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
In that case can you explain why they are not pushing forward | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
and carrying out what you promised in your manifesto? | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
You showed the clip of Kerry McCartney's question | :46:36. | :46:36. | |
in the segment before this but you know I think I have asked | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
two questions on this in thd house this week and I've had | :46:42. | :46:43. | |
a number of conversations with Chris Grayling as well. | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
I think we made a very clear commitment to the south-west | :46:47. | :46:48. | |
in our manifesto that has rdsult of electrifying the great | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
Western Railway we would improve journey times and we would free up | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
rolling stock to come down from the Thames Valley to ilprove | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
I intend to hold the governlent to account for delivering that commit. | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
George, is it a big deal can we just manage with how | :47:04. | :47:06. | |
No, I think it is a betrayal and I think it is going | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
You have to bear in mind th`t Bath and Bristol, Bath has | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
5 million passengers a year going through the station. | :47:16. | :47:17. | |
We are both positive contributors to the national economy. | :47:18. | :47:25. | |
Part of that depends on our links with London | :47:26. | :47:27. | |
This will have a negative economic effect. | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
Is it something to do with local government and the political force | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
I cant imagine Nicola Sturgdon putting up with this | :47:40. | :47:54. | |
I had really good meetings with Sir Peter Hendy of Network Rail | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
and with transport ministers and I was promised | :47:59. | :48:00. | |
I knew they were going to bd delays until 2019. | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
Now we are talking about Twenty20 for if it all. | :48:04. | :48:06. | |
I'd do see it as broken promises. | :48:07. | :48:09. | |
I think it's an interesting point actually. | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
There is the Midlands engind room, that is the northern powerhouse | :48:13. | :48:14. | |
There are brands to regional economic development elsewhdre. | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
In the south-west we haven't quite figured out what that is. | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
In Bristol and Bath and those on the M4 corridor seem to be | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
Cornwall is doing something on their own. | :48:25. | :48:38. | |
This isn't to excuse the government and Network Rail's failure hn this | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
area, but maybe if as a penhnsular we had a clearer sense of ptrpose, | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
a clearer sense of collective identity we might find we are able | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
to make a pitch that is mord compelling to ministers | :48:50. | :48:51. | |
At the end of the day, the costs are huge and they have | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
overrun but in the general scheme of things we are a rich country | :48:56. | :48:58. | |
Surely we should be able to electrified line | :48:59. | :49:00. | |
You would think so and I thhnk notwithstanding the carbon hssue | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
or the carbon benefits of h`ving electrified actually | :49:05. | :49:06. | |
there is an economic benefit in doing so as well and as we get | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
the Westwood link from the great Western Railway into Heathrow | :49:10. | :49:11. | |
all of these things that will unlock our region as a place | :49:12. | :49:14. | |
to inwardly invest, we just have to do them. | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
We did try to get Network R`il on the programme but there | :49:19. | :49:26. | |
Now, Theresa May might have been ninth on his list of world leaders | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
to ring him when he won the presidency but Donald Trump | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
insists he still holds a spdcial place in his heart for us | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
Robert Markwell has been to meet one of the privileged few to stdp | :49:39. | :49:45. | |
As photos on your phone go Andy Wigmore's is hard to bdat. | :49:46. | :49:54. | |
Way before any world leader he was one of the very first to pass | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
through the gilded doors of Trump Tower. | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
It's like walking into Tutankhamun's live home and everything is opulent | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
It looks bling at the same time it kind of works, | :50:08. | :50:27. | |
Mr Wigmore is head of commission is for the campaign group | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
EU out of this south Gloucestershire call centre | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
And after their success the now President-elect was often in touch | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
I think he probably pressed the wrong button. | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
He said, Andy I just want to ask a couple of things. | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
My kids couldn't quite get their heads around it. | :50:48. | :50:55. | |
I know it sounds bizarre but it is kind of normal with him | :50:56. | :51:01. | |
Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Nigel Farage. | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
Trump's prediction of delivdring what he called Brexit | :51:08. | :51:09. | |
Both campaigns have plenty in common. | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
The parallels between Brexit and their campaign for us | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
We borrowed some of their techniques. | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
We used the same people and certainly I know | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
they were monitoring everything we did forensically. | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
Trump discovered the power of social media and what it meant. | :51:30. | :51:31. | |
He could have a direct convdrsation with people and they could hnteract. | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
That is an honesty about social major which he understood. | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
So when he was outrageous hd knew the more outrageous he was the more | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
The more attention he got the more outrageous he was. | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
Who's going to pay for the war? | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
We couldn't quite get our hdads around, OK it seems to work, | :51:52. | :51:58. | |
it worked and the more outr`geous we were the more attention we got | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
He this litre gets to the most extreme level. | :52:02. | :52:07. | |
I don't think we were as bolbastic as he was but we | :52:08. | :52:10. | |
Many are still reeling from Trump's surprise when. | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
The ex-mayor of Bristol George Ferguson flew the US | :52:16. | :52:17. | |
But is it politicians who are the ones who are | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
I think the great thing about Brexit and Trump, | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
it's the change in the world dynamic of politics. | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
It's very much that they want to be heard and they don't | :52:30. | :52:37. | |
want the political classes to ignore them. | :52:38. | :52:38. | |
Mr Wigmore together with a millionaire businesslan | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
Aaron Banks are the self-stxled bad boys of Brexit and their tile | :52:45. | :52:47. | |
in the political spotlight hs far from over after pouring ?8 lillion | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
of his own money into the rdferendum Mr Banks is now funding to PC's | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
to examine the details of the Article 50 case. | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
He also unveiled plans this week to drain what he called the swamp | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
He set aside ?10 million to fund up to 200 parliamentary candid`tes | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
who might run against what he calls lazy, ineffective and corrupt MPs. | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
He also wants to abolish thd House of Lords and set a minimum `ge | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
limit of 40 for anyone running for the Commons. | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
We have got a little list and we think it | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
Whether or not that happens we don't know | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
You can't ignore some of what we have to say. | :53:30. | :53:36. | |
This special relationship goes on with both Andy Wigmore | :53:37. | :53:38. | |
and Bristol businessmen Aaron Banks due to be guests of honour | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
at President Trump's inauguration in January. | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
What you make of Trump Tower and the internal decoration? | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
I think it's a vulgar, ritzy and American greed | :53:54. | :53:55. | |
at its worst and I wrote th`t in 1988 having been there. | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
The reason the flag is flying at half-mast is because I sde it | :54:00. | :54:08. | |
The American dream that anyone who comes to America | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
Clearly the words and I do believe the words sadly, | :54:12. | :54:25. | |
the words against immigrants in America have been very d`maging. | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
Having said that, he obviously plugged in to a feeling in liddle | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
America and perhaps elsewhere as the Brexit the beloved and. | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
They are looking after the little guy. | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
In a way that the big polithcal parties haven't done. | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
He actually got a minority of the vote as you know and Clinton | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
So America has got a very strange system. | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
I think what he has done is extremely damaging. | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
This is all part of the post Brexit, post-truth movement and I think | :54:56. | :54:58. | |
Trump is not necessarily to my taste. | :54:59. | :55:08. | |
I would not have voted for him if I had been given the chohce | :55:09. | :55:17. | |
between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton but he did just | :55:18. | :55:19. | |
win an election and I think those of us who don't want to accdpt that | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
or need to be careful about the criticism they potr | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
on Donald Trump when he thrdatened not to accept the result. | :55:28. | :55:29. | |
I have a lot of respect for George but flying the American flag | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
at half-mast, I mean American democracy made | :55:34. | :55:35. | |
a decision and they have elected their president. | :55:36. | :55:37. | |
Whether he is to our taste or not, he won. | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
Whatever his views on minorities and so on? | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
We as a nation don't get a vote in the United States | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
Of course, if he goes on to enact things that we find to be | :55:47. | :55:53. | |
unacceptable, for example going away from climate change, banning Muslims | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
from visiting his country, we will have responsibility as part | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
of the international communhty to challenge him over that. | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
But ultimately America is a sovereign nation, | :56:05. | :56:07. | |
they have democratic process and they have | :56:08. | :56:09. | |
Americans in this country h`ve been very supportive | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
of what I did and they felt I was speaking for them. | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
I've had a lot of contact on social media backing it. | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
It was just a statement, as I made when I bought that flag | :56:21. | :56:27. | |
That just move on to the wider issues and the visit | :56:28. | :56:33. | |
by Aaron Backes, the local businessman who is funding ` lot | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
of the Brexit campaign and his assistant Mr Wigmord. | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
You think it would be a good idea to have less the abilities | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
of Mr Farr Raj to build a bridge between us and the United States? | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
No I don't because I think Nigel Farage has an agenda | :56:51. | :56:57. | |
and political allegiance that is very clear and I suspect | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
that any such role would be rather it useful to his own | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
However, it's very clear from what we've seen from the way | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
Donald Trump has interacted with Nigel Farage we would do well | :57:09. | :57:11. | |
to learn from that and get hnvolved as quickly as we can. | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
The next scheme Mr Banks has got is to find up to 200 candid`tes | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
to drain what they call the swamp of people they don't think | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
a suitable to be MPs, including those actually | :57:22. | :57:23. | |
I don't know how old you are. | :57:24. | :57:33. | |
You so you wouldn't even be able to stand under those rules. | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
I loved watching that PR man in his nice office with the very | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
posh suit looking very well,kept pontificating over that. | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
I have done three combat totrs of Iraq and Afghanistan and direct | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
and I've got an experience that has something to offer. | :57:50. | :57:52. | |
You have to be very careful about saying things like th`t, | :57:53. | :57:54. | |
especially from your perch as a millionaire | :57:55. | :57:56. | |
I think it's up to him but H hate the way money is buying | :57:57. | :58:04. | |
Very bad Americanisation of our politics. | :58:05. | :58:13. | |
Time now for our round-up of the week in just 60 seconds. | :58:14. | :58:25. | |
Ofsted issued a damning report about Swindon schools. | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
It said they were the cause of serious concern and that | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
children in the town were being failed at every level. | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
Headteachers and the council say the criticisms were overly harsh. | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
To give a one-sided view out straight to the media | :58:39. | :58:40. | |
and the parents is dangerous and is not helpful and it whll worry | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
230 jobs are set to go at the GKN factory in Yeovil. | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
The firm announced it would close the plant that makes helicopter | :58:51. | :58:52. | |
We are doing all we can to try to look at lateral | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
thinking to try to make sure there is a future | :58:59. | :59:00. | |
In Bath the Tories strengthdned the control on the council | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
by picking up the seat from the Greens in a by-election. | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
And plans to roll-out a of buses powered by human waste have | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
The first is in Bristol had a trial this vehicle on the aptly | :59:12. | :59:18. | |
The government flushed away hopes when it refused to spend a penny | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
Just coming up, the Autumn Statement next week. | :59:23. | :59:32. | |
That is when the government announces how much it's | :59:33. | :59:34. | |
James, what they want the money to be used for? | :59:35. | :59:41. | |
Broadband, railway, roads, mobile networks, our energy system. | :59:42. | :59:50. | |
All of those things will drhve productivity and it | :59:51. | :59:52. | |
That is what Mr Trump is suggesting of course | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
Clean energy and devolution to the city regions. | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
That is all we have time for this week. | :00:02. | :00:09. | |
Now it's time to return to London and Andrew. | :00:10. | :00:16. | |
And who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
Well, the Shadow Chancellor and the Chancellor have both been | :00:20. | :00:33. | |
touring the television studios this morning. | :00:34. | :00:35. | |
Let's be clear, a lot of this is going to be gimmicks and press | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
As I've said, in the pipeline, we've only | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
seen one in five delivered to construction, that's all. | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
So a lot of this will be a repeat of what | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
I'm not going to reveal what I'm going to say on | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
We don't have unlimited capacity, as one might | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
imagine from listening to John McDonnell, to borrow | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
hundreds of billions of pounds more for discretionary spending. | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
That simply doesn't exist if we're going to | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
retain this country's hard-won credibility in the financial markets | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
if we are going to remain an attractive place for business to | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
We didn't learn very much, Helen, but the papers were briefed this | :01:18. | :01:30. | |
morning that there will be another ?1.3 billion for roads and things | :01:31. | :01:38. | |
like that. ?1.3 billion is 0.08 of our GDP. Not exactly an | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
infrastructure investment programme, is it? Yellow like I have to say, it | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
was not thrilling to read the details. -- I have to say... It is | :01:49. | :01:57. | |
the first big financial statement that is going to come and I think | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
there will be a big row about the OBE are forecast because they cannot | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
set out a range, they have to commit to one forecast. Everything they do | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
is incredibly political. DOB are is on a hiding to nothing. -- DOB are | :02:11. | :02:18. | |
-- the Office for Budget Responsibility. I don't know how | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
they will square the circle. It is an interesting week. It is all about | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
the economy and public finances and we don't have to talk about Brexit | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
until next Sunday, but no, I have a terrible feeling that by the end of | :02:36. | :02:46. | |
Wednesday afternoon we will be screaming and shouting about how | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
Brexit is going to be for the economy. Just imagine the Treasury | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
comes out with his forecast that it is going to collapse growth and | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
collapsed Treasury takings, people will be apoplectic. Until now, the | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
economy has continued to grow strongly. Pretty well. They cannot | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
say, we have noticed it slowing down and that will continue. They have to | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
take a punt if they think it will slow down. It affects the | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
Chancellor's figures, because the more they say it is slowing down, | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
and I have seen that it will go from 2% down to 1.4%, the more the | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
Chancellor's deficit rises even without any more tax cuts and | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
spending. Absolutely. I think Tom is right. What we will see this week is | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
a continuation of the debate we have been having all along. If the Office | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
for Budget Responsibility has negative and gloomy predictions | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
there will be howls of agony, and rightly howls of frustration from | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
Brexiteers who will say that all the dire predictions from before the | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
referendum have not come to pass and now you are talking things down in a | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
way that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The money for roads, you | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
were dismissive about it, but every little helps. I don't dismiss it, I | :04:07. | :04:14. | |
say it doesn't amount to a fiscal stimulus in macro economic terms. | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
I'm sure if you are on that road, it will be useful. They are going to | :04:19. | :04:26. | |
build a super highway between Oxford and Cambridge. I would like to see | :04:27. | :04:36. | |
them go out to Japan and learn how to fill a hole in two days. I would | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
suggest the road from Oxford to Cambridge is not for the just | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
managing classes, even though it goes through Milton Keynes, and that | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
simply freezing due freezing fuel duty isn't going to hack it, either. | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
These just about managing people are potentially quite a big band. With | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
income tax rises, it means anything you do to help them is incredibly | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
expensive. The universal credit freeze is an interesting example of | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
that. Philip Hammond sounded ambivalent about it after | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
pre-briefings that it might not the cuts might not go ahead. There are | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
people who are in work but because they are low paid don't have the | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
number of hours, they require welfare benefits to top up their | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
pay, and these welfare benefits as it stands, are frozen until 202 , | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
and yet inflation is now starting to rise. That's a problem for the just | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
managing people. Correct. It is worse than that, because we are | :05:46. | :05:54. | |
talking about April 2017 when tax credits become universal credits, so | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
the squeeze will be greater. We will get a small highway between a couple | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
of university towns, but if he has any money left to spend at all, it | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
will be on some pretty seismic jazzman for the just about managing | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
people. I am so glad we're not calling them Jams on this programme, | :06:16. | :06:24. | |
because it is a patronising tone. What the Chancellor and Shadow | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
Chancellor did not confront is that Mr Trump's election is a watershed | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
in terms of being able to borrow cheaply. The Federal Reserve is | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
about to start raising rates. The days of cheap borrowing for | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
governments could be coming to an end. You can feel a bit sorry for | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
labour here because after having had six years of being told that we need | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
a surplus and these things are important, we can't deny the | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
deficit, we have switched now and the first thing that Philip Hammond | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
did was to scrap George Osborne s borrowing targets. He has given | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
himself more wriggle room than George Osborne had. He has and it | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
will cost them more. Debt servicing will now rise as a cost. Where is | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
the next political earthquake going to happen? | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
It could be Italy, or the French elections coming up next spring | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
Now, who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in next | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
year's French Presidential elections? | :07:33. | :07:33. | |
Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans, | :07:34. | :07:34. | |
are selecting their candidate in the first round of | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans, | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
are selecting their candidate in the first round of | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
Let's speak to our correspondent in Paris, Hugh Schofield. | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
Welcome to the programme. Three main candidates, the former -- two former | :07:48. | :08:00. | |
prime ministers and Nicolas Sarkozy, the former president. It is not | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
clear who the front runner is. Robbins it is quite an exciting | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
race, because four weeks it did look as if it was going to be Juppe. It | :08:09. | :08:22. | |
is a two round race. Two go through and the idea is that they rally all | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
the support together. It looked like the first round would be dominated | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
by Juppe and Nicolas Sarkozy, and there was a clear binary combination | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
there, because Sarkozy was looking for squeamish far right voters. In | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
other words, veering clearly to the right and far right on immigration | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
and identity issues. And Juppe is the opposite, saying we had to | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
appeal to the centre. That was what it looked like. But the third | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
candidate has made this really quite staggering surge in the last few | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
days. There was a debate on Thursday and he was deemed to have won it on | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
television. He is coming up strongly, and I wouldn't be at all | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
surprised to see him go through which would be interesting from a | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
British perspective, because if the becomes president, he will be the | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
first president with a British wife. His wife Penelope is Welsh. | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
We will have to leave it there. I would suggest that the reason it is | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
fascinating is that whoever wins this primary for the centre-right | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
party is likely to be the next president, and who the next | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
president is will be very important for Britain in these Brexit | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
negotiations. Nothing will really happen until it is determined. Then | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
after the German elections in October. I would add one more | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
constituent part. The most important thing about the race is who can stop | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
Marine Le Pen. Marine Le Pen will almost be one of the ones in the | :10:01. | :10:09. | |
run-off. The Socialists don't expect much. Francois Hollande is done | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
There is too much of a cliff to climb. Which one of these three | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
centre-right candidates can stop Marine Le Pen? We have had Brexit | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
and Trump, but we could also have Marine Le Pen. If it is Sarkozy it | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
is the battle of the right. In some areas, he has moved to the right of | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
marine Le Pen. I suppose he feels he has do in order to take the wind out | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
of our sails. You wonder if she could succeed later on if she does | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
not this time. Talking to French analysts last night, there was | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
suggesting that she could not do it this time but could win the next | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
time. All the events in France over the last year seemed to provide the | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
most propitious circumstances for her to do well, and particularly if | :10:59. | :11:05. | |
you throw in Trump and Brexit. Suppose it is Mr Sarkozy, and he | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
goes through and wins the Republican nomination, and he and Marine Le Pen | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
go through to the second round, that would mean, think about it, is that | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
a lot of French socialist voters and those on the father left would have | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
to grit their teeth and vote for Nicolas Sarkozy. They might not do | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
it. We might see what we saw in America, where lots of potential | :11:34. | :11:45. | |
Clinton voters did not turn out You got politicians like Melanchon on | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
the far left saying there are foreign workers taking bread out of | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
French workers' mounts. We sometimes forget, because we tend to emphasise | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
the National of the National front, but actually, there are economic | :11:59. | :12:13. | |
policy is quite Bennite. Sarkozy is the Hillary Clinton of the French | :12:14. | :12:21. | |
elections. He is Mr establishment. Juppe and the other third candidate | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
are the same. You have to re-establish candidates running | :12:30. | :12:31. | |
against an antiestablishment candidate. There are populist | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
economic policies from the National front. The other three want to raise | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
the retirement age and cut back on the 35 hour week, which are not | :12:41. | :12:48. | |
classic electoral appeals. Mr Juppe used to be the Mayor of Bordeaux. | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
And we are the biggest importers of claret, so that could have an | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
effect. In 2002, it was Jack Shear against John Marine Le Pen, and the | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
socialist campaign slogan was, vote for the Crook, not the fascist. We | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
will see what they come up with this time. | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
The Daily Politics is back at noon tomorrow on BBC Two, | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
where on Wednesday I will have full coverage of the Chancellor's Autumn | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
But remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:25. | :13:33. |