15/01/2012 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire


15/01/2012

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And on the Sunday Politics in the North - why public sector workers

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fear plans to negotiate their pay at a local level will leave them on

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1687 seconds

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the wrong side of a north-south Welcome to the Sunday Politics for

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Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Every week we'll have the top political

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stories in our part of the world and speaking to the key decision

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makers at Westminster and in our town halls. Coming up today... Why

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teachers, nurses and other public sector workers fear plans to

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negotiate their pay at a local level will leave them on the wrong

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side of a north-south divide. And why a private company which

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runs prisons in Australia is being urged NOT to take a bonus payment

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from the cash-strapped schools budget in a Yorkshire city.

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Labour's Hilary Benn and Conservative Alec Shelbrooke are

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here to talk about those subjects and much more on the Sunday

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Politics. First, should a teacher receive the

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same salary whether they work in Sheffield or Southampton, or should

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nurses be paid the same in Barnsley or Bristol? The Government is

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drawing up proposals to end the process of national pay bargaining

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for public sector workers. But that's prompted claims that many

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staff in the north will be worse Hearing Kingston upon Thames, they

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earn twice as much than those in their northern namesake, Kingston

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upon Hull. Although many London- based staff and the public sector

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received a London weighting allowance, most public sector

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workers are subject to the same rates of pay no matter where they

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live. But that could soon come to an end. The Chancellor has

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announced recently that the Government is looking at salaries

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being negotiated at Al local, rather than national level. We're

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trying to make sure that pay is fair and is right for the local

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economy. We have already introduced it, but it was stopped by the last

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Labour government. In the Court Service, Manchester, they have the

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local facing pay. It is opposed by teachers like a mad that works in a

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primary school in East Yorkshire. George Osborne has already said,

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there is no more money to fund this, so it is not a question of

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providing extra money for people living in more expensive areas, but

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instead he must be doing, if there is no more money, is bidding a pay

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freeze some people that live in poorer areas of the country or

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giving them a pay cut. It might pay his cot and everyone in the public

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sector's cake is cut in this area, that will be devastating for the

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local economy. Critics of national pay bargaining agree that public

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sector salaries should reflect the cost of living in a particular part

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of the country, so for example, the average pals Fry's here is

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currently �93,000. -- the current has prize. In Kingston-upon-Thames,

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it is over �300,000, around four times as much. The unions are not

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convinced by this argument. think that teachers, whether they

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are in Kingston-upon-Thames are Kingston-upon-Hull, or in the home

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counties, they are all doing the same job, so they should be able to

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feel they could move to a different part of the country for promotion

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or to engage in a different part of teaching. Pay bargaining locally

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means there will be live more disputes and not less. The more we

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talk Lashley, the more Wrea Green nationally. But do people get

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different pay in different areas, then it will get more disputes up.

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This Conservative MP is a former teacher and supports local pay

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bargaining but insists that certain factors should be looked at.

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should take into account not just the geographical location, but the

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difficulties of the job you're doing. If you're teaching in this

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area with some very tough schools, then you have added pressures as a

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teacher, and you may not get a nice areas to live in, and you have to

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take this into account as well. public pay review bodies will now

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look at the options for making wages more responsive to local

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labour markets, with a report due in the summer. Following the recent

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strikes over pensions, the proposed scrapping of national pay

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bargaining could spark round to win the fight between the unions and

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the Government. -- Grand two in this fight.

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And Emma Hardy is with me here, she will have plenty to say to the

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guests, Hilary Benn, the shadow community secretary and Alec shall

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Brooke, the Conservative MP. -- Alec Shelbrooke. Is it right that

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people are paid the same a matter where they are in the country in

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the public sector? There was always flexibility. London weighting has

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been around for a long time. But they do not think this is a good

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idea, because national pay bargaining gives you a scale that

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employers can use. He will end up leapfrogging, so if somebody pays

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more, the public sector workers want to work in that area, that

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happened with the Metropolitan Police some years ago. They

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increased their pay, and the surrounding police forces and

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officers were moving, so they had to put up the pay, and it cost more.

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When the economy is in difficulty, it doesn't make sense, apart from

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not being fair. Alec Shelbrooke, workers in Yorkshire and

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Lincolnshire will not be paid more, in many cases they will be paid

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less, with this proposal. I think it is important to recognise, a

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point that my colleague made, if you bring pay bargaining down to

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local area, then when you have particularly tough schools and

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tough circumstances, if you want to attract people into this, then they

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should be better rewards for that area, but the point that is clear,

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it is about making a local decision rather than a national decision.

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What are you can sense? My main concern is the fact that there is

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no extra money to pay for these changes that she wanted implement,

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so we do you get the money from? Where do you take it from? Who

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makes these decisions? What he will find, people will move to the area

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where they will get paid more. Or they believe in a cheaper area and

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commute further, which goes against the green policies that this

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government is trying to promote at the moment. Does it want people to

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be commuting down to London because they get paid more while living in

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the Yorkshire region. Alec Shelbrooke, when you answer on

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behalf of the Chancellor? No, his responsibilities above my pay

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grade! If that argument was to be true, them or why would a teacher

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go to work in some of the tough inner-city schools? They go there

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because they believe in what they are doing, otherwise, to follow

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that argument, people will just want to go to leafy suburbs, to

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schools and the countryside, so it is important that if we go back to

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this point of allowing it to be decided at a local, regional level,

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hopefully, some of the changes in an area will come through. North

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Yorkshire is very different to all or Leeds. That is a good point, if

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you look at the pay grades in Leeds and Rotherham, they are different.

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Yes, this is right, there are national pay scales, and there are

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individual employers will make a decision as well, but this was

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tried in the NHS but the last Tory government and it did not work and

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it had to be scrapped. The reasons were very set out, and very clearly

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come and they do not think it will work, and if it cost more money, it

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defeats the object. When George Osborne announced this, his central

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argument appeared to be that the problem is the public sector is

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paying too much in areas compared to private sector employers are

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able to afford. He wants the public sector to be paying people less

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money, and that would not be fair, and it would not be right. You're

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one of the many teachers that went on strike in November because of

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pensions, is there something that could cause further strikes? Yes, I

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believe strongly that this government is politicising a

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generation. Speaking to be built in the staffroom, meeting people on

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strike, moderate people that have never been involved, people that

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were never really interested in politics, if we're honest, and now

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talking politics all the time, because the public sector are

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feeling hard hit by this government, by the pensions that you're taking

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money, but the increase contributions that you want from me,

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and they came the offer concessions, there are no concessions for me

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come under 35, nothing. Now you want to take potentially more money

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from me because in this letter, it was stated there would be no extra

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funding for the changes from national to regional pay. Alec

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Shelbrooke, do you think the Government as a friend of the

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public sector or are you clearly had to hammer them? There has to be

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a rebalancing of the public sector to the private sector, you could

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not go on the way they are spending money. But it is important to have

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this conversation, and there are consultations, nothing has come

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forward, it is a consultation period. All the arguments will be

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considered. Thank you. Now what do Australian Prisons, Air

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Traffic Control in Abu Dhabi and Bradford Schools have in common?

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The answer is they're all been run at one time by the same company.

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Serco managed Bradford's schools for ten years. Now it's emerged

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that taxpayers face shelling out hundreds of thousands of pounds

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towards a bonus payment owed to the firm at a time when the city's

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education budget is facing cuts of six million pounds. Here's Sean

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After a damning Ofsted inspections in the area, the Schools Minister

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led the New Labour hit squad that took control away from the local

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authorities and gave it to the private sector for 10 years. Those

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contracts came to an end last year. Education was among for-profit

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company, but minutes was manage by a private company, Serco which had

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targets to raise attainment levels across all ethnic groups and to do

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with truancy and bad behaviour. original targets were never

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achieved and has to look not been achieved. -- has still not been

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achieved. The targets were high, the bonus was low, and as a result,

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the contract was renegotiated with a lowering of the targets and

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Ratchford. This led to a massive rise in the incentive payment that

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Serco received, over �880,000 in the second year, rising to over

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�900,000 the year after. Then it dropped back to half a million

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pounds for the remaining years. The payment for the final year is still

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being calculated. It will have to be paid at a time when Bradford

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councillors making six-and-a-half million pounds worth of cuts in the

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central education services, and some of that would not have had to

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be made if they had not pay the bonuses to the company. It was

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essentially, not a success. This is taking money from deprived children,

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from children with special needs, from people that need the money,

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giving it to these executives. I would urge that company to refuse

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to take the payment and giving back to the schools that deserve it.

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This week, Bradford council started consultations on educational cuts

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in the next financial year. They said they were contractually

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obliged to pay their last incentive. Meanwhile, Serco, but made �123

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million profits in the first half of last year from many contracts

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all over the world, defends its Yorkshire record saying significant

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improvements were made in the 10 years of education in Bradford. Do

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you think the Labour government then got the best deal when it got

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rid of the schools in Leeds and Bradford to a private company for a

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period of 10 years? I can speak very knowledgeably about Leeds,

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there were problems and the Department of Education and we have

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seen big improvements in the City and in the performance of children

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at primary and secondary level. The company did a very good job and

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Nigel Richardson is doing a great job now. The story in Bradford is

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not like a well negotiated contract by the Conservative council,

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including the fact it was renegotiated to increase the bonus

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payments that went to Serco. The only people that can answer this

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question how the Tory leaders from back then. Alec Shelbrooke, should

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the Government intervened to stop Serco getting this final payment

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when Bradford schools are facing �6 million worth of cuts? What is very

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important to understand his what targets were set and what the bonus

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payments were paid out? The targets were not even met in the first year,

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and although a small bonus was renegotiated and move forward, as

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much as intervention sounds attractive, we're set within a

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legal framework that makes it very hard, so before making those sort

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of pronouncements, it is important to understand what the targets were

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and if they have been met? If the company achieved what it was asked

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to do, it will be exceptionally difficult to try and reverse that

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decision. We will see more of these bonus payments come a bit of that

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part of the NHS being moved off to private companies and this will

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happen more and more. It is important to understand that some

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projects are being reviewed and they have not worked in the best

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way forward, but the agreement between myself and Hillary, that

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some projects but a lot of investment into the public sector,

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but they were not perhaps working in the best way. The point is, just

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because it doesn't appear that this particular situation in Bradford

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has and worked well, it has not been we should throw the baby out

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with the bathwater. How do we make sure that taxpayers get a better

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deal and they're not stomach the contract like this where private

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companies get a bonus payment when they did not arguably deliver the

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results? You need to negotiate good contracts and the first place. The

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reason this is a problem now is because of the local government

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cuts and they need to be made. It is unfair that the 10 % have the

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most deprived areas and the country are facing a reduction than the 10

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% in the least deprived. If you look at the map of England, you

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look at the different parts and the smallest cuts are on the south and

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the largest in the north. Well let's reflect on the political

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events of the past week. Len Tingle has the news in 60 seconds.

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Had the �33 billion plan for high speed rail 2 Yorkshire come off the

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tracks? On Tuesday it was announced initial legislation would only

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include a read as far as Birmingham, but by Friday, the Chancellor

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reassured that tracks to Leeds and Sheffield would be included once

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the consultation is finished. here to say absolutely, we want to

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bring high-speed rail 2 Leeds and it is a very important part of

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connecting the Yorkshire economy to the Midlands. Another high-profile

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casualty of Twitter this week, the most serious Tory councillor

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tweeter that people in the public gallery were read cards and he was

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suspended for 20 weeks. Doncaster are trying to preserve jobs by

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asking 7,000 staff that earned more than �15,000 a year to take a 4%

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pay cut. It has not gone down too well. Another week and another row

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over rubbish, in Sheffield this time, has plans to drop weekly

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collections are put forward to save money over two years.

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High-speed rail was a big talking point, Alec Shelbrooke, why has the

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Government not legislated for the whole of the route to Leeds and

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Manchester, because you're only legislating to Birmingham in the

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first stage. It is so we can get on with the job, very simply. It is

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quicker to bring a hybrid Bills into Parliament to get us to

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Birmingham and get on with that. When that is happening, the

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planning for the routing from Birmingham to Leeds and Manchester

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can take place. Another bill can be brought him. The Government is

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committed to bringing this to Leeds and Manchester and so is the

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official opposition. It has got cross-party support and will happen,

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but in order for it to happen as quickly as possible, the best way

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it was to do it in two stages. you totally sold on this idea of

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spending �33 billion? Yes, because we started the process in

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government and I am pleased that the new government is committed to

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it. It is all about the economic future of this region, because

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transport is fundamental for getting people to invest and

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enabling business to happen and we need to get on with it. It will

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provide jobs and we need these a lot in the economy. In Sheffield,

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fortnightly Bank elections, will this be popular? -- bin collections.

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This is best discussed at a local level. To support fortnightly

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collections? If it works, I am happy to support it. The

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extraordinary thing about Eric Pickles, these tough times, we are

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talking about public spending, he has found a quarter of a billion

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pounds that he said he will spend and give to you if you go back to

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weekly bin collections. He talks about localism, but he thinks he

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knows better. A Eric Pickles will not be happy, nobody is taking him

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up on this extra money? It is down to the electorate to cast their

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decision in May! On that note, I will not ask you what you think of

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the new programme so far! Thank you. That's about it from us. You can

:49:38.:49:41.

keep up to date with all latest political news and views in our

:49:41.:49:45.

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