Browse content similar to 15/01/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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And on the Sunday Politics in the North - why public sector workers | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
fear plans to negotiate their pay at a local level will leave them on | :01:33. | :01:42. | |
:01:43. | :01:43. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1687 seconds | :01:43. | :29:50. | |
the wrong side of a north-south Welcome to the Sunday Politics for | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Every week we'll have the top political | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
stories in our part of the world and speaking to the key decision | :29:57. | :30:04. | |
makers at Westminster and in our town halls. Coming up today... Why | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
teachers, nurses and other public sector workers fear plans to | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
negotiate their pay at a local level will leave them on the wrong | :30:09. | :30:19. | |
:30:19. | :30:20. | ||
side of a north-south divide. And why a private company which | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
runs prisons in Australia is being urged NOT to take a bonus payment | :30:24. | :30:33. | |
from the cash-strapped schools budget in a Yorkshire city. | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
Labour's Hilary Benn and Conservative Alec Shelbrooke are | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
here to talk about those subjects and much more on the Sunday | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
Politics. First, should a teacher receive the | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
same salary whether they work in Sheffield or Southampton, or should | :30:45. | :30:53. | |
nurses be paid the same in Barnsley or Bristol? The Government is | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
drawing up proposals to end the process of national pay bargaining | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
for public sector workers. But that's prompted claims that many | :31:00. | :31:10. | |
:31:10. | :31:21. | ||
staff in the north will be worse Hearing Kingston upon Thames, they | :31:21. | :31:27. | |
earn twice as much than those in their northern namesake, Kingston | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
upon Hull. Although many London- based staff and the public sector | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
received a London weighting allowance, most public sector | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
workers are subject to the same rates of pay no matter where they | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
live. But that could soon come to an end. The Chancellor has | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
announced recently that the Government is looking at salaries | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
being negotiated at Al local, rather than national level. We're | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
trying to make sure that pay is fair and is right for the local | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
economy. We have already introduced it, but it was stopped by the last | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
Labour government. In the Court Service, Manchester, they have the | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
local facing pay. It is opposed by teachers like a mad that works in a | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
primary school in East Yorkshire. George Osborne has already said, | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
there is no more money to fund this, so it is not a question of | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
providing extra money for people living in more expensive areas, but | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
instead he must be doing, if there is no more money, is bidding a pay | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
freeze some people that live in poorer areas of the country or | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
giving them a pay cut. It might pay his cot and everyone in the public | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
sector's cake is cut in this area, that will be devastating for the | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
local economy. Critics of national pay bargaining agree that public | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
sector salaries should reflect the cost of living in a particular part | :32:51. | :32:59. | |
of the country, so for example, the average pals Fry's here is | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
currently �93,000. -- the current has prize. In Kingston-upon-Thames, | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
it is over �300,000, around four times as much. The unions are not | :33:10. | :33:16. | |
convinced by this argument. think that teachers, whether they | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
are in Kingston-upon-Thames are Kingston-upon-Hull, or in the home | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
counties, they are all doing the same job, so they should be able to | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
feel they could move to a different part of the country for promotion | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
or to engage in a different part of teaching. Pay bargaining locally | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
means there will be live more disputes and not less. The more we | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
talk Lashley, the more Wrea Green nationally. But do people get | :33:40. | :33:48. | |
different pay in different areas, then it will get more disputes up. | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
This Conservative MP is a former teacher and supports local pay | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
bargaining but insists that certain factors should be looked at. | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
should take into account not just the geographical location, but the | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
difficulties of the job you're doing. If you're teaching in this | :34:04. | :34:10. | |
area with some very tough schools, then you have added pressures as a | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
teacher, and you may not get a nice areas to live in, and you have to | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
take this into account as well. public pay review bodies will now | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
look at the options for making wages more responsive to local | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
labour markets, with a report due in the summer. Following the recent | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
strikes over pensions, the proposed scrapping of national pay | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
bargaining could spark round to win the fight between the unions and | :34:37. | :34:44. | |
the Government. -- Grand two in this fight. | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
And Emma Hardy is with me here, she will have plenty to say to the | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
guests, Hilary Benn, the shadow community secretary and Alec shall | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
Brooke, the Conservative MP. -- Alec Shelbrooke. Is it right that | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
people are paid the same a matter where they are in the country in | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
the public sector? There was always flexibility. London weighting has | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
been around for a long time. But they do not think this is a good | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
idea, because national pay bargaining gives you a scale that | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
employers can use. He will end up leapfrogging, so if somebody pays | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
more, the public sector workers want to work in that area, that | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
happened with the Metropolitan Police some years ago. They | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
increased their pay, and the surrounding police forces and | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
officers were moving, so they had to put up the pay, and it cost more. | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
When the economy is in difficulty, it doesn't make sense, apart from | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
not being fair. Alec Shelbrooke, workers in Yorkshire and | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
Lincolnshire will not be paid more, in many cases they will be paid | :35:51. | :35:59. | |
less, with this proposal. I think it is important to recognise, a | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
point that my colleague made, if you bring pay bargaining down to | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
local area, then when you have particularly tough schools and | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
tough circumstances, if you want to attract people into this, then they | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
should be better rewards for that area, but the point that is clear, | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
it is about making a local decision rather than a national decision. | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
What are you can sense? My main concern is the fact that there is | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
no extra money to pay for these changes that she wanted implement, | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
so we do you get the money from? Where do you take it from? Who | :36:39. | :36:46. | |
makes these decisions? What he will find, people will move to the area | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
where they will get paid more. Or they believe in a cheaper area and | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
commute further, which goes against the green policies that this | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
government is trying to promote at the moment. Does it want people to | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
be commuting down to London because they get paid more while living in | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
the Yorkshire region. Alec Shelbrooke, when you answer on | :37:08. | :37:14. | |
behalf of the Chancellor? No, his responsibilities above my pay | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
grade! If that argument was to be true, them or why would a teacher | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
go to work in some of the tough inner-city schools? They go there | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
because they believe in what they are doing, otherwise, to follow | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
that argument, people will just want to go to leafy suburbs, to | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
schools and the countryside, so it is important that if we go back to | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
this point of allowing it to be decided at a local, regional level, | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
hopefully, some of the changes in an area will come through. North | :37:46. | :37:54. | |
Yorkshire is very different to all or Leeds. That is a good point, if | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
you look at the pay grades in Leeds and Rotherham, they are different. | :37:58. | :38:04. | |
Yes, this is right, there are national pay scales, and there are | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
individual employers will make a decision as well, but this was | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
tried in the NHS but the last Tory government and it did not work and | :38:11. | :38:19. | |
it had to be scrapped. The reasons were very set out, and very clearly | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
come and they do not think it will work, and if it cost more money, it | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
defeats the object. When George Osborne announced this, his central | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
argument appeared to be that the problem is the public sector is | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
paying too much in areas compared to private sector employers are | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
able to afford. He wants the public sector to be paying people less | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
money, and that would not be fair, and it would not be right. You're | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
one of the many teachers that went on strike in November because of | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
pensions, is there something that could cause further strikes? Yes, I | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
believe strongly that this government is politicising a | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
generation. Speaking to be built in the staffroom, meeting people on | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
strike, moderate people that have never been involved, people that | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
were never really interested in politics, if we're honest, and now | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
talking politics all the time, because the public sector are | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
feeling hard hit by this government, by the pensions that you're taking | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
money, but the increase contributions that you want from me, | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
and they came the offer concessions, there are no concessions for me | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
come under 35, nothing. Now you want to take potentially more money | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
from me because in this letter, it was stated there would be no extra | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
funding for the changes from national to regional pay. Alec | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
Shelbrooke, do you think the Government as a friend of the | :39:41. | :39:49. | |
public sector or are you clearly had to hammer them? There has to be | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
a rebalancing of the public sector to the private sector, you could | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
not go on the way they are spending money. But it is important to have | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
this conversation, and there are consultations, nothing has come | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
forward, it is a consultation period. All the arguments will be | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
considered. Thank you. Now what do Australian Prisons, Air | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
Traffic Control in Abu Dhabi and Bradford Schools have in common? | :40:19. | :40:25. | |
The answer is they're all been run at one time by the same company. | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
Serco managed Bradford's schools for ten years. Now it's emerged | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
that taxpayers face shelling out hundreds of thousands of pounds | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
towards a bonus payment owed to the firm at a time when the city's | :40:34. | :40:40. | |
education budget is facing cuts of six million pounds. Here's Sean | :40:41. | :40:50. | |
:40:51. | :40:56. | ||
After a damning Ofsted inspections in the area, the Schools Minister | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
led the New Labour hit squad that took control away from the local | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
authorities and gave it to the private sector for 10 years. Those | :41:05. | :41:12. | |
contracts came to an end last year. Education was among for-profit | :41:12. | :41:22. | |
company, but minutes was manage by a private company, Serco which had | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
targets to raise attainment levels across all ethnic groups and to do | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
with truancy and bad behaviour. original targets were never | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
achieved and has to look not been achieved. -- has still not been | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
achieved. The targets were high, the bonus was low, and as a result, | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
the contract was renegotiated with a lowering of the targets and | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
Ratchford. This led to a massive rise in the incentive payment that | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
Serco received, over �880,000 in the second year, rising to over | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
�900,000 the year after. Then it dropped back to half a million | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
pounds for the remaining years. The payment for the final year is still | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
being calculated. It will have to be paid at a time when Bradford | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
councillors making six-and-a-half million pounds worth of cuts in the | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
central education services, and some of that would not have had to | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
be made if they had not pay the bonuses to the company. It was | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
essentially, not a success. This is taking money from deprived children, | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
from children with special needs, from people that need the money, | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
giving it to these executives. I would urge that company to refuse | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
to take the payment and giving back to the schools that deserve it. | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
This week, Bradford council started consultations on educational cuts | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
in the next financial year. They said they were contractually | :42:49. | :42:56. | |
obliged to pay their last incentive. Meanwhile, Serco, but made �123 | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
million profits in the first half of last year from many contracts | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
all over the world, defends its Yorkshire record saying significant | :43:04. | :43:10. | |
improvements were made in the 10 years of education in Bradford. Do | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
you think the Labour government then got the best deal when it got | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
rid of the schools in Leeds and Bradford to a private company for a | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
period of 10 years? I can speak very knowledgeably about Leeds, | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
there were problems and the Department of Education and we have | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
seen big improvements in the City and in the performance of children | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
at primary and secondary level. The company did a very good job and | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
Nigel Richardson is doing a great job now. The story in Bradford is | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
not like a well negotiated contract by the Conservative council, | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
including the fact it was renegotiated to increase the bonus | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
payments that went to Serco. The only people that can answer this | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
question how the Tory leaders from back then. Alec Shelbrooke, should | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
the Government intervened to stop Serco getting this final payment | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
when Bradford schools are facing �6 million worth of cuts? What is very | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
important to understand his what targets were set and what the bonus | :44:09. | :44:16. | |
payments were paid out? The targets were not even met in the first year, | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
and although a small bonus was renegotiated and move forward, as | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
much as intervention sounds attractive, we're set within a | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
legal framework that makes it very hard, so before making those sort | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
of pronouncements, it is important to understand what the targets were | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
and if they have been met? If the company achieved what it was asked | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
to do, it will be exceptionally difficult to try and reverse that | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
decision. We will see more of these bonus payments come a bit of that | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
part of the NHS being moved off to private companies and this will | :44:50. | :44:56. | |
happen more and more. It is important to understand that some | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
projects are being reviewed and they have not worked in the best | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
way forward, but the agreement between myself and Hillary, that | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
some projects but a lot of investment into the public sector, | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
but they were not perhaps working in the best way. The point is, just | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
because it doesn't appear that this particular situation in Bradford | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
has and worked well, it has not been we should throw the baby out | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
with the bathwater. How do we make sure that taxpayers get a better | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
deal and they're not stomach the contract like this where private | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
companies get a bonus payment when they did not arguably deliver the | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
results? You need to negotiate good contracts and the first place. The | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
reason this is a problem now is because of the local government | :45:40. | :45:48. | |
cuts and they need to be made. It is unfair that the 10 % have the | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
most deprived areas and the country are facing a reduction than the 10 | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
% in the least deprived. If you look at the map of England, you | :45:56. | :46:02. | |
look at the different parts and the smallest cuts are on the south and | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
the largest in the north. Well let's reflect on the political | :46:06. | :46:16. | |
:46:16. | :46:19. | ||
events of the past week. Len Tingle has the news in 60 seconds. | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
Had the �33 billion plan for high speed rail 2 Yorkshire come off the | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
tracks? On Tuesday it was announced initial legislation would only | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
include a read as far as Birmingham, but by Friday, the Chancellor | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
reassured that tracks to Leeds and Sheffield would be included once | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
the consultation is finished. here to say absolutely, we want to | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
bring high-speed rail 2 Leeds and it is a very important part of | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
connecting the Yorkshire economy to the Midlands. Another high-profile | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
casualty of Twitter this week, the most serious Tory councillor | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
tweeter that people in the public gallery were read cards and he was | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
suspended for 20 weeks. Doncaster are trying to preserve jobs by | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
asking 7,000 staff that earned more than �15,000 a year to take a 4% | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
pay cut. It has not gone down too well. Another week and another row | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
over rubbish, in Sheffield this time, has plans to drop weekly | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
collections are put forward to save money over two years. | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
High-speed rail was a big talking point, Alec Shelbrooke, why has the | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
Government not legislated for the whole of the route to Leeds and | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
Manchester, because you're only legislating to Birmingham in the | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
first stage. It is so we can get on with the job, very simply. It is | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
quicker to bring a hybrid Bills into Parliament to get us to | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
Birmingham and get on with that. When that is happening, the | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
planning for the routing from Birmingham to Leeds and Manchester | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
can take place. Another bill can be brought him. The Government is | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
committed to bringing this to Leeds and Manchester and so is the | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
official opposition. It has got cross-party support and will happen, | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
but in order for it to happen as quickly as possible, the best way | :48:11. | :48:17. | |
it was to do it in two stages. you totally sold on this idea of | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
spending �33 billion? Yes, because we started the process in | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
government and I am pleased that the new government is committed to | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
it. It is all about the economic future of this region, because | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
transport is fundamental for getting people to invest and | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
enabling business to happen and we need to get on with it. It will | :48:37. | :48:44. | |
provide jobs and we need these a lot in the economy. In Sheffield, | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
fortnightly Bank elections, will this be popular? -- bin collections. | :48:50. | :48:55. | |
This is best discussed at a local level. To support fortnightly | :48:55. | :49:01. | |
collections? If it works, I am happy to support it. The | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
extraordinary thing about Eric Pickles, these tough times, we are | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
talking about public spending, he has found a quarter of a billion | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
pounds that he said he will spend and give to you if you go back to | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
weekly bin collections. He talks about localism, but he thinks he | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
knows better. A Eric Pickles will not be happy, nobody is taking him | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
up on this extra money? It is down to the electorate to cast their | :49:27. | :49:33. | |
decision in May! On that note, I will not ask you what you think of | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
the new programme so far! Thank you. That's about it from us. You can | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
keep up to date with all latest political news and views in our | :49:41. | :49:45. |