22/01/2012 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

In Leeds, a warning followed a's leadership from Yorkshire's union

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1767 seconds

Welcome to the show at the Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming

up, we meet the campaigners who claim one of Yorkshire's most

scenic landscapes will be ruined by a major mining scheme.

First, let's meet our main to guests today. Mary Creagh, the

Labour MP for Wakefield and the shadow environment secretary. And

Simon Reevell, this Conservative MP for Dewsbury. It has been a tough

week for Ed Miliband, bookies have slashed the odds on him remaining

Labour leader at the time of the next election. Do you think he will

last the course? I think he will, we have seen in speeches that Ed

Miliband continues to shape the political debate in this country.

Whether it was his instinctive response to the News International

scandal last summer, or the debate on crony capitalism where now we

see the Prime Minister roaring in behind him, he is setting out the

future ground on which the next election will be fought. Simon

Reevell, many Tories seek Ed Miliband as an electoral asset.

Would you be heartbroken if he were suddenly to not be Labour leader?

It depends on what sort of Labour Party they want to be, he is no

worse than Michael Foot, Gordon Brown on Neil Kinnock.

Ed Miliband and Ed Balls have both announced that they are in favour

of a freeze on public sector wages. That has prompted a big row among

some trade union leaders in Yorkshire. They were so furious

they have threatened to It's absolute madness. Absolutely

nonsensical. It has always been a difficult and passionate

relationship, but this isn't between Labour's most senior duo

and the trade unions is not only down to deeply held principles but

also the way in which the significant shift in policy was

carried out. Unions affiliated to Labour have been fuming since Ed

Balls said last Saturday that he would not promise to lift the cap

on public sector pay. One source told this programme the Yorkshire

dominated shadow cabinet has been more than surprised by the backlash,

which had seemed threats from one union that it will sever ties on

the party. It is certainly thumbing your nose at the trade unionists,

workers, hospital workers, engineers, who pay union

contributions and a piece of that go towards the Labour Party. The

bottom line is our members will encourage us to evaluate our

relationship with the Labour Party. Is has also emerged the Shadow

Cabinet had not have discussed this major cabinet policy shift when it

met last Wednesday. Shadow ministers were telephoned and told

about it and some unions were also warned by telephone. This is about

signals to get out to London and the Home Counties. The danger with

signals is, if this policy came to fruition, which it never would, it

has consequences. Economic League, it is nonsensical. The shadow

cabinet justifies the policy by pointing out that is going on in

towns like Doncaster, pay cuts to preserve jobs. Conciliatory noises

are coming from the Ed Balls camp, but also with the rider that the

unions have to wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to deficit

reduction. We will discuss this with Mary

Creagh and Simon Reevell in a moment. Let me introduce a member

of the Unison union, and you work for the street seemed department on

Leeds City Council, what do you do? It involves keeping the streets of

Leeds tidy, and seeing the bins. very important job. -- emptying the

bins. What you think about the direction of the Labour Party and

Ed Miliband? I was very disappointed in the line he appears

to be taking, because Ed Miliband, in my view, should be campaigning

for a living wage. You don't think he is doing that? No. With the pay

freeze and the announcement made by him and Ed Balls? No, it is not

exactly giving people out there, who are disenfranchised as a result

of the government's policies, an alternative. People do not want to

vote for more of of the same, they want an alternative. What is your

response, Mary Creagh? This is a continuation of our policy in

government. Alastair Darling announced this in 2009, we are an

opposition that aspire to be in government. Was the Autumn

Statement has showed us is that George Osborne, by cutting too far

too fast by making the wrong choices on the economy... Ed Balls

has been denying at problem in the deficit, saying cuts are not

necessary. We said we would be doing the deficit reduction in half

the time. When we left power -- power, unemployment was coming down

and growth was rising. We have seen this week to 0.7 million people

unemployed, one in 10 Yorkshire's in Yorkshire on the dole, that is

no way to bring the deficit down. The choice, if we were in

government now, would meet the having paid going up and people on

the dole or have people in the work? We would have people in work.

How would you convince people like Glenn here that he needs to keep

his pay frozen? The big picture is that this country does not have any

money. If people have a recollection of a golden time under

the Labour government, I would be astonished. We have got to pay off

the debt so we can use our money to start investing in the things we

need. The amount the private sector can afford to fund the public

sector has to come down. It is nothing personal against any one

individual, it is a question of any -- everybody having to recognise we

cannot spend the money we have been spending. We had a programme -- a

teacher on the programme last week saying their friends in the public

sector is becoming more interested in politics. That is because in a

decade -- for a decade, it was so well funded, there was no interest,

the money kept coming. But is not affordable for the rest of the

country. Any crumbs of comfort therefore you? None at all. What I

would say for now, we have already been subjected to a two-year pay --

pay freeze, we have another one coming up. The reality is, for

someone who owns �15,000 per year, how can you kick-start the economy,

if you are freezing their pay, that individual not have -- will be

surviving on the bare necessities. Struggling to pay fuel bills and

pay for food. Struggling to pay for public transport. Even if this 1%,

so-called, pay rise was to materialise, it would amount to

somebody on �15,000 per year, it would amount to �3 per week. That

is an absolute insult. You will not kick-start the economy in real

terms by offering derogatory pay cuts. You are nodding in agreement,

but you are actually going to freeze his pay. I have every

sympathy with him, I have visited a food bank in Bradford, and on

Monday and will be leading a debate in the Commons about the

difficulties families are facing with rising food prices. I have

spoken to mothers who were eating the scraps of their children's

plates. I am not under any illusions about how hard it is for

people out there. These are people who were holding down good jobs are

few years ago, people who have debts or who are divorced can

easily find themselves in difficult circumstances. But we have to be,

in opposition, we have to speak for the entire country. That means

people in the private sector as well as the public sector, if we

aspire to govern and turn this country around after the next

election. You are a Labour Party supporter, will they continue to

have your support? I will be reviewing my support of Labour

along with the unions, because we are disgusted at what has been said.

What people want to hear, when they work in low-paid jobs, whether

public or private sector, they want the Labour Party to be on board

pushing for a living wage. To reiterate, that is public or

private sector, they want the Labour Party or to be pushing for

the Labour -- living wage. government, we increased spending,

we work and invest it, we once the country to be in a position to --

we want the country to be in a position to invest in the future.

We had a big rise in unemployment this week, especially in our part

of the world. David Cameron was confident that public sector jobs

will come true, but that does not seem to be happening. -- private

sector jobs, rather. The hope is that the private sector will grow

and take up people who have been in a public sector that was

unsustainable. You cannot just continue to employ everybody in the

public sector, someone has got to make something and pay for that.

Where are the private sector jobs in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire?

are coming through, but times are hard. That solution cannot be to

put everyone back on the public sector books. Unemployment is not

going to start coming down, the in employment -- the independent

review says it will not come down until next year. You are not

printed change course, followed labour's five-point plan to make

jobs and growth. Some are thought to have heard today from our MPs. -

- sum up what you have heard today. This government have announced that

they want to shed 700,000 jobs in the public sector, and when they

come to office, and stated they would be shed public sector jobs

and create them in the private sector, that has not happened. That

is still not happening. Briefly, what I would say is that if we are

being subjected to more pay freezes in real terms, pay cuts, we will

not have the money to spend in the local economy, in private

businesses. We will bring you back, no doubt, in the fullness of time

to question a lot MPs today. Thank you for coming in.

Let's catch up with the news in 60 Could a new Jag for two Jags be on

the card? Lord Prescott will receive �40,000 from the owners of

the News of the World after the former Hull MP's phone was hacked.

York racecourse saw the arrival of an unscheduled Hunt, the culture

secretary Jeremy Hunt, trying to persuade businesses they can be

winners as a result of the London Olympics. I would not fancy any of

these against Usain Bolt! An unexpected resignation on

Thursday, Lib Dem Euro MP Diana Wallace announced she was quitting

after failing to land the job of President of the European Cham it -

- parliament. There is a tinge of disillusionment, but it inspires me

to say, I think I can do more here than being away.

It has been revealed her job will be taken on by her husband, Stuart

Arnold, who was second on the Lib Dem's list in the Yorkshire and

Humber region. Some argue this is too cosy a coalition.

So, it is goodbye to Diana Wallace for now, but I am sure we have not

heard the last from have. Mary Creagh, what you think about this

situation? A year MP resigned, the second person get their job, and

none of this by-election business. It seems extraordinary and I think

it is incredible that we have people standing for election who

apply it -- aspire to be the President of the European

Parliament, and then when they fail, they effectively throw the toys out

of the pram and make sure there husband gives them a soft landing.

I suspect banner was will have a different take. This is not a

unique situation -- I suspect Diana Wallace will have a different take

on that. Do you think the rules should be looked at again? This

stands out because it will be passed on to her husband, but it is

not the fact that it is her husband taking over, it is the system that

allows it to be passed on like a bat on without people voting.

People might take a completely different view of who they want to

represent them after this performance and they should be

given their say. I think after the Lib Dems support in the coalition

Tories, I do not think we will see any more Lib Dem European MPs.

Jeremy Hunt was in Yorkshire this week, urging people to make the

most of the London Olympics, urging businesses. Do you think we will

benefit in this part of the world? I think there is more to be done.

Businesses in my constituency are involved, but I have heard from

businesses to have tried to get involved and could not. I think we

have get -- got to make sure the opportunity is there, time is

running out. There is a knock-on effect, it is not just an economic

effect, on the morning of 25th June I had every school kid in my

constituency will be packed into the Jewsbury to see the torch go by.

They will remember that forever. these difficult times, we are

asking what should take priority, jobs or the environment? That is

the dilemma facing the North York Moors National Park, where the

authorities are looking at a major new mining application which could

create up to 5000 jobs. Whitby Abbey dominates the

landscape, but it now has a rival. A few miles away, in a field

outside the picturesque village, this giant trail has been

extracting mineral samples from over a mile beneath the sample, and

it has struck a huge deposit of potash, largely used to make

fertiliser. This is one of about a dozen or -- doesn't bore holes. The

company needs them to see where it needs to apply it to get planning

permission to create a mine. One thing is clear, because where the

deposits are, it will have to have a shaft within the national park.

The incentive is 1000 mining jobs at the Pit, and indirect employment

for 4000, but all in -- only if it can construct of the biggest piece

of industrial development in the 60 year history of any of the national

parks in the UK. Anyone can understand the positive benefits,

what it can do for local, national economies and the potash industry.

It has always got to be balanced with, what would it look like,

where will it be? We are working as hard and fast as we can to start

providing answers. The company says modern mining technology will

reduce its impact. Winding gear inside what will look like a big

bomb, a sharp, well over a mile down, to the miners working below,

and an annual rent -- million pounds of potash pumped to Teesside

as slurry through an underground pipeline. The jobs are a huge

incentive for local support. This is a local college where an extra

science class has already started for sixth-formers. More are

expected to follow, and it is already a year before the country -

- company is in a position to apply for planning position. I have made

it clear to the company that we are not going to give them an

environmental blank cheque. It is important that when they designed

the pit, it is done sympathetically in a way that he is limiting upon

the environment. If they cannot do that, they will not get a bit.

Organisations representing users and representatives of national

parks across the UK says this huge project, much -- costing more than

�2 billion, is inappropriate. It has now launched a �25,000 fighting

fund to oppose it. Because our own purpose is to look after the

national parks for present and future generations, we have this

concern that this will be a very undesirable industrial intrusion in

the National Park. The man in the middle is the chief executive of

the North York Moors National Park. That body will eventually decide on

whether to give planning permission. Do you feel under pressure? Yes, of

course, it is a big issue. And the park does understand the importance

of potash. But it also understands the importance of national parks.

We have to keep an open mind. drilling will go on for another few

months, before the proposed site for the shaft and pits topple be

revealed. That is when the debate will get under way.

Mary Creagh, as its shadow environment secretary, do you think

these mining proposals should go ahead? It is at an early stage but

this is clear that it is an internationally significant dis --

deposit of potash, and we needed to grow our food, it is a key

component of fertiliser. Prices have to be made. If people do not

want GM, we will use fertiliser. I understand people in Scarborough,

whose children are facing an uncertain future, keen to see the

jobs. On the other hand, they are national parks, they are a national

treasure. They have to be protected. What we have seen with George

Osborne is trying to push a duty of sustainable development on to the

National Parks, ripping up the planning system, creating

uncertainty for communities. Nobody in judgments -- government can say

what sustainable development is, and no one can tell me whether a

mine is -- mine is sustainable development. Your Conservative

colleague, Robert good win, said he would not want to give the company

and environmental black check -- blank cheque, it is a tough call.

There has always been building in the national parks, out of

necessity. There is a raid last enter their to make sure we are not

attacked by rockets from other countries. -- a radar system.

Sustainable development simply means a development which is

sustainable, it is not a difficult concept. This mine has a 60 year