12/05/2013 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Plus, we will find out which of our constituencies is UKIP's number one

target seat for the general election.

And well and well payment to keep offenders out of jail? Payment to

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1866 seconds

Hello and welcome. Hello and welcome.

Well I payment by well I payment by a probation system keep a probation

system keep offenders out of offenders out of jail jail? Some

claim it could increase? Some claim it could increase crime. Crime.

And you's and you's number one target seat in the general election.

Number one target seat in the general election. We have Karl

Turner and Simon Reevell with us. We have Karl Turner and Simon Reevell

with us. We know what the government's plans are from the

Queen's speech. We know what the government's plans are from the

Queen's speech. It was criticised as much for what wasn't in it it was

criticised as much for what wasn't in it than what was. Than what was.

I think it is a Queen's speech that has policies I think it is a Queen's

speech that has policies that that hold hold things that need to be

done, rather than grand ideas. Things that need to be done, rather

than grand ideas. What would you have liked to have seen in the

Queens speech what would you have liked to have seen in the Queens

speech? I think it was a missed opportunity. ? I think it was a

missed opportunity. I think we should have been looking at growth

in the economy and creating jobs. That is what people ask me about on

the doorstep I think we should have been looking at growth in the

economy and creating jobs. That is what people ask me about on the

doorstep. . We did not see any of that mimics speech. We did not see

any of that mimics speech. Private companies and charities will be paid

by results in the prison service if they can keep convicted private

companies and charities will be paid by results in the prison service if

they can keep convicted criminals on the straight and narrow. Criminals

on the straight and narrow. Some say that the Government is taking some

say that the Government is taking a big risk and it could lead to higher

rates of reoffending. Len Tingle Daniel meets up with his probation

officer in Leeds. Daniel meets up with his probation officer in Leeds.

After several months in prison he has been put on a training course

and she regularly checks after several months in prison he has been

put on a training course and she regularly checks to see that he

hasn't to see that he hasn't gone back to petty crime which has given

him several convictions in the past. Gone back to petty crime which has

given him several convictions in the past. Before I met my partner I was

living a life of crime. Before I met my partner I was living a life of

crime. Starting with my starting with my the onset, the onset, she is

barely she is barely -- she is fantastic. -- she is fantastic. --

my fiance. -- my fiance. I just don't want to go down that road

again. I just don't want to go down that road again. We are there to

empower them to make decisions later on in life and to prevent

reoffending. We are there to empower them to make decisions later on in

life and to prevent reoffending. Keeping more offenders from going

back to court thanking keeping more offenders from going back to court

thanking effect on them for new crimes is what this is all about.

Effect on them for new crimes is what this is all about. --

convicting them -- convicting them. . The Government says that the

private sector could do the Government says that the private

sector could do a better job a better job for all but the most

serious criminals. For all but the most serious criminals. We spend

more than �4 billion a year on probation. Despite increases in

spending under the previous Government overall we spend more

than �4 billion a year on probation. Despite increases in spending under

the previous Government overall reoffending rates have barely

changed over the last reoffending rates have barely changed over the

last decade. Decade. At the offices of the seven at the offices of the

seven probation service is that cover probation service is that

cover the North Midlands, Lincolnshire the North Midlands,

Lincolnshire and Yorkshire it is becoming and Yorkshire it is

becoming a war of statistics. Here at West Yorkshire they say they have

reared used a war of statistics. Here at West Yorkshire they say they

have reared used reoffending by 15% without any reoffending by 15%

without any new initiatives. The Government says that is not good

enough new initiatives. The Government says that is not good

enough. . It says it wants to see 58% it says it wants to see 58% as a

rate as a rate going down. Going down. The most senior probation

managers claim that handing over the most senior probation managers claim

that handing over big chunks of their work to private companies big

chunks of their work to private companies will lead to higher levels

of reoffending and more crime on our streets. Will lead to higher levels

of reoffending and more crime on our streets. If they are dismantling a

system that works and a system that has the trust of courts and

communities if they are dismantling a system that works and a system

that has the trust of courts and communities, of the police,, of the

police, during that traditional during that traditional phase there

is a risk. Phase there is a risk. -- transitional phase. -- transitional

phase. This is a high-risk strategy that has been taken. This is a

high-risk strategy that has been taken. But the Government wants but

the Government wants more more commercial companies to bid for big

business. Business. This small mentoring scheme in Leeds sees

privatisation as an opportunity to increase the scale of its work and

this small mentoring scheme in Leeds sees privatisation as an opportunity

to increase the scale of its work and used income. Used income.

are a number of very skilled people in the voluntary sector working with

offenders. There are a number of very skilled people in the voluntary

sector working with offenders. We have a lot to offer but we receive

no statutory funding from any we have a lot to offer but we receive

no statutory funding from any -- from any agency. -- from any agency.

Anyone who sends people here makes referrals and we have to raise the

money ourselves from trust funds. Anyone who sends people here makes

referrals and we have to raise the money ourselves from trust funds.

Prisons Minister Chris Grayling is so convinced that his reforms will

keep more prisons Minister Chris Grayling is so convinced that his

reforms will keep more people from going behind bars again people from

going behind bars again at the first contract will be awarded as soon as

this autumn. The centuries-old at the first contract will be awarded

as soon as this autumn. The centuries-old public predation

public predation -- public probation -- public probation office will be a

shadow of what it is right now. Office will be a shadow of what it

is right now. Karl Turner, more than half of

businesses Karl Turner, more than half of businesses -- of prisoners

reoffend within a year. This is clearly an issue. -- of prisoners

reoffend within a year. This is clearly an issue. The Labour Party

agree that we need the Labour Party agree that we need to to try to deal

with reoffending. It is the quickest way to deal with try to deal with

reoffending. It is the quickest way to deal with crime, crime, getting

reoffending down. This plan is untried and untested. Getting

reoffending down. This plan is untried and untested. What is

significant from that report is that a senior what is significant from

that report is that a senior probation officer, despite the

gagging order that the Lord Chancellor put on probation officer,

despite the gagging order that the Lord Chancellor put on probation

officers, probation officers, is prepared to come out and say

actually, this is risky. I think it risks public safety, actually. It

has not been tested, it should have been before implementation, is

prepared to come out and say actually, this is risky. I think it

risks public safety, actually. It has not been tested, it should have

been before implementation, but this is typical of this Government on

this particular Lord Chancellor. But this is typical of this Government

on this particular Lord Chancellor. He is doing all sorts of things with

the justice system, he is doing all sorts of things with the justice

system, some some of it is very frightening. Of it is very

frightening. I'm surprised that you say that point I'm surprised that

you say that point It is a fantastic it is a fantastic organisation in

whole, that is right next to your constituency, organisation in whole,

that is right next to your constituency, Karl Turner. Karl

Turner. I have met the former addicts and offenders who they have

helped and I have met the former addicts and offenders who they have

helped and why organisations like that shouldn't be helped to help

people who have offended to addiction why organisations like

that shouldn't be helped to help people who have offended to

addiction, I cannot understand the argued against it. Two theatres and

tried, I cannot understand the argued against it. Two theatres and

tried ignores what these charities do day in and day out. There are

some ignores what these charities do day in and day out. There are some

fantastic people fantastic people out there. Out there. -- there are

some fantastic -- there are some fantastic charities out there.

Charities out there. People who have offended people who have offended 12

months previously haven't really been helped, now they will be, isn't

that a good thing? 12 months previously haven't really been

helped, now they will be, isn't that a good thing? The probation service

can do that point The probation service can do that point My concern

is giving it over to companies like my concern is getting it over to

companies like cheap for S cheap for S, we only need to see what they did

in the Olympics. , we only need to see what they did in the Olympics.

-- G4S. We have to be careful, we are risking public safety by dealing

with this issue. We have to be really careful about that point West

Yorkshire claim they have reduced by 15% without the need for this new

system. People are arguing over the statistics because this job is not

being done. If we all knew what this job was, we would not be arguing

over the statistics. The results are clearly not there. It is wrong to

use words like public safety to frighten people. The lady that you

saw in the clip, all of these people know what they're doing, they have

been doing it for a long time. They had even better results than the

probation service have been getting. Let us see what they can do

on a bigger scale. Let us the statistics on the criminal justice

system. There been a fall in the number of prosecutions, these

figures relate to West Yorkshire, but there are similar ones

throughout the country. There is an increasing the of cautions. What

does that tell us, Karl Turner? is worrying. I have read this issue

with the chairman of the home affairs committee and he has agreed

to have an enquiry on this very point. More cautions are being

dashed out, I think people are being cautioned for really very serious

offences, they should be charged and they should be appearing at court

and they should be going to prison, quite frankly. Do not know what the

reason paint it is, but I think the police are to caution when they

should be charging. -- the reason behind it is. Here is a more

statistics. Three people got a community disposal order because of

sexual offences in 2011 to 2012. Just explain, what is the community

disposal? These are cases that have gone to court and the prison has

been subject -- has been made subject to an unpaid work

requirement or something like that point In West Yorkshire you have a

police force that over the last few years has been issuing cautions for

serious sexual offences, violent sexual offences, and it is now

getting involved in it community disposals were serious offences. On

the day that it reproduces its report and is asking itself with

victims weren't coming forward during the Jimmy Savile years,

perhaps one he reason is that people do not have the confidence that

police will take it seriously and so will not take themselves through the

trauma of coming forward and talking about it. Much of these figures

increased during a Labour Government. I think it has been

increasing steadily over the past few years. I think there has been

quite a spike in recent months. The last 12 months, I think, has seen

cautions being overused for more serious offences. That is why I have

asked the Home Affairs Committee to look at it. What would you do?

have the stats that I give to you. We have both been working on it

actually. This is a police thing, this isn't a Government of either

party thing. This is police that they that something are some things

can just be dealt with in a way that appears to a lot of ordinary and

decent people to be dismissive. The police and the police and crime

commissioners have to say to West Yorkshire, if you are a villain you

will be taken in and taken to court. You will not be matched around to

shake someone's hand and say you are sorry. -- marched.

Everyone is now looking at how you can make Stewart the general

election in two years time. There is even speculation that Nigel Farage

could stand in Lincolnshire. Boston and Skegness where conservative

minister Mark Simmonds prepares for a tough fight are worried. -- UKIP.

After failing to secure an overall majority in the county council, the

Conservatives now share power with independent councillors and the

Liberal Democrats. It is all down to guess what, you's success came

largely the expense of the Tories. Nowhere more so than in the

constituency of Boston and Skegness. Concerns about immigration there

other political map turn a distinct shade of purple. Just need to remind

you of the economic situation that we have inherited. This is the first

time that Mark Simmonds has returned to the best constituency since the

last could cancel elections. He told me that lessons need to be learned.

I think there are genuine concerns and is part of Lincolnshire, both

about the scale of inward economic migration, the slowness of the speed

with which central Government has been able to react to the increase

in population, and I think that is a key message I have been discussing

with my colleagues in central Government to make sure that we do

try to address that point Boston and Skegness will be a key target seat

for UKIP in the next general election. Mark Simmonds has ignored

and pretended that there is no migration problem, or mass migration

problem, in Boston. The local people's views are our views and we

want to represent them and take them forward. In the general election in

two years' time will see results that will make me the MP for Boston.

There is no doubt that it was a protest fought for some. Although I

am in no way complacent. I could go -- IKEA compassionately and

passionately for area. I want to make sure that the people here are

comfortable with the resources that they get from central Government and

that they are happy in the society and community with when -- within

which they live. It will be a hot topic for the next election. Chris

Bryant addressed party this week when he said that an Australian

style points -based system should have been introduced earlier by the

last Labour Government. I hope that at the next general election, every

single Labour candidate but we absolutely confident to talk about

immigration issues, because the political class cannot run away from

what the electorate thinks. That does not mean that I'm going to

engage in some sort of auction with other political parties or choose

other logical parties on this issue, we have a distinctive view

and we will take to cross. With less than two years to go, all political

parties know that immigration could make or break their performance at

the ballot box. Simon Reevell, how worried are you?

People like yourself in marginal seats must be worried. I do not

blame anyone who voted for UKIP in the last election. I think people

have felt that they have been ignored by politicians of all

parties on issues in immigration for a very long time. In the last

Government they saw an open door policy which was entirely

inappropriate for this country and the made to feel that they could not

talk about issues like that without being labelled racist. When I voted

against the Government in the EU budget there were couple of dozen of

us that did that, we take a stance against the budget last year, when

nearly 100 of us, and next week there will be an amendment with

almost every one looking at eye Euro referendum. People who vote for UKIP

need to ask themselves who they want in Government. If you were you

supporter of the last thing you want is a Labour Government doing what

they did. Should you do an electoral pact with them? Able to think about

how they want to board. If you vote for UKIP then you might want to vote

for them just because you want to, but you have to take the

consequences, that you should vote for the Conservative Party because

then there will be a referendum. Karl Turner, tough talker from Chris

Bryant in Pudsey. I Labour playing catch up from the previous years?

not think so. We did not have an door policy. There is an issue on

immigration and it is an issue that comes up on the doorstep. It isn't

the number one issue for me in whole. What people are really

concerned about the is jobs and growth in the economy. That is what

people are asking me to concentrate my attention and efforts on. At many

perceive that they cannot get a job cost of migrants. It is clearly an

issue, but that is the problem. David Cameron has taken his eye off

of the ball. He should be concentrating on jobs and growth,

unfortunately, backbench Euro sceptics like Simon Reevell are

pulling in the UKIP direction. There was all kinds of talk last week of

pacts with UKIP. It just seems incredible. David Cameron is in a

really bad position, his backbenchers are giving him some

real trouble. He is dithering. is the point. You have a situation,

you have immigration with people voting or UKIP last week, it is a

significant folk around massive amount of people. The Labour Party's

response is that they do not want to talk about it. It is a really

serious issue in the minds of a lot of people. It is something that all

people want politicians to address. You can walk away from it bury under

the carpet but people reflect that when they come to court. I am not

sleeping the issue under the carpet. When Ed Miliband was elected leader

of the party he took this issue head on. Chris Bryant is talking about it

now, he has addressed meetings and whole this week. -- in Hull. The

issue of immigration is a problem. But the reality is people are more

concerned about jobs. David Cameron should be doing with that right now.

The economy has been flatlining since his Government were elected

over three years ago. They have done nothing about that point It is time

to concentrate on the real issues. It will not go away.

Let us get more of this week's political news, it is our round-up

in 60 seconds. A great week for Hull as the Tigers

celebrate promotion to the Premier league. It promotes the economic

prospects of the city. Diana Johnson says that the current shirt sponsors

do not reflect that success. We need to have a sponsor that says

something positive about the city. An internal West Yorkshire Police

report showed and in best edition but said that officers regularly

excepting additions from Jimmy Savile to his home did not impact on

the case. It is on the website and you can read it. Importantly, the IP

CC will actually look at all of these issues. At a huge police

presence in Leeds for the first match of the English Defence League

since extremist or jailed for trying to bomb assume -- a similar event in

critical of West Yorkshire Police's report. Why? The publish report is

supposed to have the purpose of making people confident in the way

that they operate. All of the officers referred to, all of their

names are redacted, they are referred to by letters, it reveals

that they had warnings. The recommendations are that if they are

told something we're supposed to think about whether it is important

and then write it down. It worries me that that needs to be a

conclusion in a report in 2013. Adult beginning getting one came

forward well Jimmy Savile was alive. Yes, but why? West Yorkshire Police

have got to say, why didn't people come forward? When they talk about

problems with not sharing information internally, that was an

excuse at the end of the Yorkshire Ripper enquiry. How long ago was

that? We still have a problem with not sharing intelligence properly.

Lessons shouldn't be waiting till now to be married. The wool was

poured -- was pulled over everybody's eyes, including Margaret

Thatcher's. As well as having police officers read your house every Freda

for coffee. -- every Friday. He was only able to pull the police's eyes

because they did not share the information. Do you think some of us

is a lover case to answer? This report has gone to the IP CC, I

think that is right. We have two Celsius what officers were involved

in this report. -- we have two Celsius. The best thing that could

happen is that the walk we there is no accountability. We have seen that

at the top of your West Yorkshire Police. To get confidence that needs

to change. Moving on, Hull city's promotion this week, great

celebrations in your hometown. Your level MP fears that Cash converters

are not a suitable shirt sponsor. see that I do share those concerns.

I think it is an unfortunate sponsor. But I also want to just sub

port the city and share the celebrations. They have worked

really hard to get the promotion. So I just want to congratulate them.

Alex Ferguson has left, will beget the top of the Premier league?

have great hopes broke out -- for our coach, I have great hopes.

just want our team to get converted into a premiership team. Thank you