16/06/2013 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

the cost of policing running into millions, Luke -- we look at calls

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2337 seconds

to ban demonstrations by far right time for the government to crack

down on payday loans firms. We meet the Roger Raman who receives a call

from the bailiffs after taking out a loan to pay his dog 's vet bill. And

with the cost of policing running into millions, we look at calls to

ban demonstrations by far-right groups such as the English Defence

League. That's coming up later. Let's say hello to our guests today.

Sarah Champion is the Labour MP for Rotherham and Craig Whittaker is the

Conservative MP for Culver Valley. We are going to talk about pay day

loan company 's. Are you happy with the way they operate? Not at all. We

need to do something about it. Whitaker, why aren't we seeing more

action from the government? We are seeing action. They are looking at

the way these loan companies operate and also the FCA will be starting up

to do other things about them as well. Every day, Citizens' Advice

staff across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire are dealing with influx

of enquiries from people who've borrowed money from pay day loan

firms - often with astronomical rates of interest. Len Tingle has

been to Rotherham to meet one man who says he's paying a high price

for his loan. Six months ago, Mickey Lawson 's dog tipped him into

financial trouble. The Roger Raman was already struggling on short time

in a low paid job -- rather rum man. For a short-term loan, they

turned to the friendly voice on his television set. Sometimes your pay

just won't stretch far enough, that is why quit it could help.

application was quick. �450 with an agreement to pay back �700 over the

next few weeks, but with the company taking it directly from the couple

's bank account. The company took all of the money with added penalty

payments, leaving the couple Esther tutor. I've been worried about

whether we are going to get evicted or not, about if bailiffs are going

to be turning up at our door. We have been threatened by every

company that I owe money to that bailiffs will be arriving if our

payments are not paid in full immediately. Nick eventually came

here. This is the citizens advice bureau. But already, the national

network of CABGs but already conducting their own service -- of

Citizens Advice bureaus. People were already in debt with little or no

income, even people who were alcoholics or suffered from mental

illness. The view is that action needs to be taken and needs to be

taken now. They are not checking the documents from these people when

they approach these companies. We have people on benefits. Given the

changes to benefits, that is a big problem. Some people simply should

not be offered a loan. They need advice and help. Quick quid declined

an invitation to be interviewed by us. But it said that it complies

with Allred collations and it is been in touch with Citizens Advice

to set up a hotline so that any disputes could be resolved speedily.

Those disputes have been growing fast. Just three years ago, the

citizens advice bureau contacted just nine payday loan companies and

this year they have contacted 37. A clear difference of political

approach was highlighted this week when a Northwest MP asked the prime

minister to join him in congratulating his local foot club

for refusing to accept sponsorship from a pay day loan company. Will he

also join in and do the right thing and give local authorities the power

to ban these predatory loan sharks from our high streets? We need to

give more support to credit unions in our country because that is one

of the best ways of addressing this whole problem of payday loans payday

lending. The government should be acted to deal with this problem. The

truth is they have been asleep on the job in the office of fair

trading has now said, look at the problems this has created. Back

here, that criticism of the taxing payday loan companies is little

comfort to this man. So, Sarah Champion, we heard Nick 's story. He

took out a loan to pay his dog 's vet bill. What should the government

be doing to help people like him? The problem is that he is not alone.

Some people have had nervous breakdowns because of these loans.

Some people are so terrified of letters and loan sharks coming to

their doors that they are barricading themselves in and not

going out. What needs to happen is one simple thing, that we cap the

interest rates. In Mickey 's case it was 2500%. Some are a lot more. 85%

of people going going for food, and essentials, they are not going for

extravagant television sets. They are looking for amounts of money to

bridge that gap at the end of the week. That �50 with thousand percent

of interest rapidly escalate out of control. I have to look at that TV

advert again very closely, 2356% interest! Surely that cannot be

acceptable! I don't think capping the interest rate is the right thing

to do. We hear these rates of interest being quoted all the time.

Even if it was 200%, they still would not have been able to pay it

back. The issue for me is how these companies operate. Most countries

have capped immediately these rates. People who are lending money of the

open market, loan sharks, behind the street and tied into that as

violence as well. At least in the current system we have, we have got

away from the previous system. One of the things as well, there has to

be an element with these things of making sure that these companies are

very clearly stating what they are offering, what they are getting back

in return, but they also has to be an onus on the people taking the

loans as well. These guys are clearly knew they were going to

borrow �400, having to pay back �700, knowing full well that they

didn't have the facility to pay it back. But they don't always know,

people are going in run, people with learning difficulties, they're not

having checks on whether they can pay that back. That is a thing that

I think seriously they need to get a serious grip of an look at the

practices of these companies. We know for a fact that currently they

are looking at 50 of these companies who are on notice and if they don't

comply within the notice period, they will have their licence

revoked. That is the type of instant action we need to see. Do you accept

that if they are used properly as a short-term loan and paid off in

quick succession, there is nothing wrong with these companies? Well,

there are other ways that people could borrow money. I rarely agree

with David Cameron but he mentioned credit unions and there are much

more responsible ways that you can borrow money. What would also be

very useful, if not essential, is that children going through school

should be taught about simple budgeting and saving. But most

importantly is that these people, when they go in for a law Cash loan,

they need to be assessed. 86% of the income of these loan companies comes

from the loaning. -- re-loaning. What price free speech? That's what

some people are asking following the latest in a series of protests by

far-right groups. South Yorkshire Police reckon it cost half a million

pounds to keep order at last weekend's demonstration by the

English Defence League in Sheffield, which also involved a

counter-protest by anti-fascist campaigners. So should the police

have more power to prevent demos if there's a serious risk of

disruption? This was the scene in Sheffield city centre as members of

the English Defence League gathered at their latest protest. According

to the EDL, it was the latest in a series of nationwide events set up

to pay tribute to soldier Lee Rigby who was killed on the streets of

London. They were met by a counter demonstration. Up to 1,000 officers

from ten different forces were on duty in a police operation estimated

to have cost �500,000. At the end of the day, who is trying to confront

us and stop us having our freedom of assembly to exercise our democratic

rights in a peaceful manner 's South Yorkshire Police has defended the

cost of policing this process, but is Commissioner accepts the money

could be better spent elsewhere. That half �1 million could be put to

much better use than employing a lease offices that could work across

the whole of Archimedes in South Yorkshire tackling issues like

burglary and shoplifting, but fundamentally I would ways defend

the right to Test in a calm way. -- to protest. Norm -- meanwhile, a

protest against plans to build a new mosque in the city. The English

people have had enough of the Islamist 's running the country.

message to the people of Lincoln was to go about their business as

normal, but many shops decided to close early and some businesses now

believe that the police should have more power to stop these kinds of

demonstrations. Lincoln in itself, were not renowned for these

demonstrations. They're not particularly nice. It could have

been quite nasty. Do you think the police should have more power to

stop these protests? Yes, they should be able to assess it and act

on that assessment. However, Lincolnshire 's police and crime

omission Alan Hardwick has ruled out any ban on future demonstrations by

far right groups. I believe in people having the right to make a

point in a peaceful way. That is what happened in Lincoln that

Saturday. You might call them right wing, I don't know what they are,

but people who want to make point and choose to make it peacefully are

going to be welcomed. It might cause a bit of disruption, but we can

certainly cope here in Lincolnshire. While most of us defend our right to

free speech, some are beginning to question the price of protest. Is

there an argument in some cases the saying that these demonstrations

should not go ahead because of the disruptive effect they have on our

towns and cities? Should they go ahead is one argument. Also, should

they go ahead in some cases, that has got to be done to the police to

analyse the nature of the demonstration. There was a protest

on the evening that Lee Rigby was killed, in cases like that, there is

every right to stop them when there is so much else going on. If it is a

peaceful demonstration, it is the right thing to do. Last weekend 's

demonstration cost �500,000, can you justify that to the taxpayers of

South Yorkshire? It is a hard thing to justify. The police did a

fantastic job. The planning was exemplary. The problem that I have

is that everyone does have the right for a peaceful protest, but what

exactly are the EDL protesting about? They don't have a right to

promote hatred or to antagonise situations, and the fact it is

costing millions of pounds, which personally I would like scene spent

on better policing. Doing the jobs that we actually want them to do

rather than managing these rallies. So the police should have more power

in some circumstances to an them? Identity they should ban them in

situations other than the one that Craig pointed out. The EDL are

causing trouble and disruption and they are causing the taxpayers a

huge expense. The Home Secretary has banned some marchers in certain

circumstances. In Bradford two or three years ago, recently in London,

why not give police and crime commission is that power to say that

there is a serious risk of public disorder, demonstration should not

go ahead? I don't quite know if it is their role to do that, but when

police are evaluating each of the marchers demonstrations that go

ahead, they do do exactly that. You determine -- they take into

consideration the safety of the town 's residents. They already do have

powers to control these marchers much better than sometimes they are.

Sarah Champion, you were critical of the EDL, but why do you think many

people from working class communities are drawn to these kind

of far right protests? It is a difficult question and one that

perplexes me. Really, the message they are getting across is one of

England, being proud about England, but I don't think they are that

honest about what they are doing. It is a false message they are giving

across. If people knew they are talking about racial intolerance,

violence against other groups, I'm not entirely sure that people would

be supporting them. Let's get some more of the week's political news

now. Cathy Killick has our round-up A reprieve the children's heart

surgery in Yorkshire. The Health Secretary said a five-year review of

services across the country was flawed and the NHS had to think

again. That gives a better chance that the Leeds unit to put its case,

according to a campaign and mother. Hopefully it will be based on a more

factual point of view. A campaign was launched to public at

-- publicise awareness of grooming and sexual exportation of young

girls. The council stands accused of complacency. The council in charge

of children's services at the time has now been elected police

Commissioner. More should have been done.

That, I would apologise. One of the latest Yorkshire -based museums said

to be under threat. MPs have caused but -- called for an urgent

parliamentary debate. So, the Leeds children's heart

campaigners have won their battle for now, but how do we know the next

review won't come up with the same conclusion that that unit should

close? We don't, but we are certain that the review that will come up

will be fair and transparent, all the things that did not happen in

the last review. You mentioned earlier about people on the

committee that had their own personal agendas and interest, and

that cannot be right. The amount of pressure put on by a huge righty of

people, not least cross-party group of MPs from West Yorkshire --

variety, they don't have any choice. The key argument made in the review

about fewer centres of clinical excellence remains, there is still a

strong argument that, isn't there? understand the logic and we want the

best services we can get, but it seems very curious that had these

plans gone ahead, the whole of the East Coast of the country would not

have access to a children's heart unit. The other thing people don't

recognise is that there is a huge stress and trauma put on parents. I

used to run a children's hospice and I had some of those parents who were

distraught, they didn't know if they would have a service, where they

were meant to be going. Also, the staff in that hospital have known if

they are going to have to relocate. It has been handled very poorly and

it has put an awful lot of stress on a lot of people. So, three Yorkshire

museums are under threat, we understand. The National Railway

Museum in York, the nicht -- National Media Museum and the

National coal mining Museum. Will we have any decent museums left in

Yorkshire? I am sure we will. People understand and know that there are

further cuts to come in in the next announcement in the next couple of

weeks, and this is people pre-empting what Mailman -- what may

or may not happen. This is clearly a case of the Museum group pre-empting

what may or may not happen and of course putting a bit of political

pressure of their own. And do we have to accept in these difficult

financial times that the museums and the arts will not get the kind of

funding they did in the past? are they picking on us? Why are we

getting all the cut is up here? I came from an arts background and I

want to tell people how important the arts and culture are to our

history. It is how we define ourselves and celebrate ourselves.

Something like the coal mining Museum to disappear, how can that

possibly happen? Our heritage would be wiped out. Yes, there are cuts,

but please keep our history. When you look at the rate down the

science moved serum -- science Museum group, most of them are based

in the South. Is there a north-south divide? Again, I think this is a

case of pre-empting what may or may not happen. This is making sure we

get our own museums protected. you accept museums of this kind,

although they might take a lot of taxpayers money, they bring in a lot

of the economy? It is huge amounts. Sarah just mentioned the National

coal mining Museum. It brings a tremendous amount of people that

would not normally come up. problem is, if these museums close,

that is it. We have lost that resource that ever. There is not the

money to reopen them. We really need to be protecting our culture in

these times. What are your plans for the week ahead? Will it be a busy

week at Westminster? I think it is a fairly quiet week in regards to

business next week. What about labour not taking part in this boat

in Europe? I think this is a very political theme that is going on.

The whole thing is designed to expose the flaws in the coalition

and also to put a divide between all the parties. It is a game going on

and I hope the public can see through it. This is not a game. This

is real. My mailbag is full of people from the Culver Valley

wanting a decision. I believe we should stay in Europe but we need to

have a national intelligent open debate about the pros and cons of