29/09/2013 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

With me are a trio of top political commentators. All three will be

tweeting their thoughts, or in some cases just their thought through the

show, using the hashtag #bbcsp. cases just their thought through the

Conservative Party conference gets afternoon. We have already been

bombarded with a series of policy announcements, a tax break for

married couples of up to £200 per year, more money on life extending

cancer treatments and, last night, the news that the second stage of

the Chancellor's Help To Buy scheme brought forward from the start of

next year. David Cameron says it is all about helping hard-working

people. Right now, you can't get, 95% mortgage. That means a typical

family with two people earning 20,000, 25,000, they are being

asked, to buy an average house, 20,000, 25,000, they are being

mortgage payment, but they can't 20,000, 25,000, they are being

flat or house. As Prime Minister, I'm not going to stand back while

people's aspirations to get on the housing ladder, to own their own

flat or home, is being trashed. housing ladder, to own their own

is why we need to act. A predictable attempt by party leadership to

kick-start the conference with eye-catching policies. The polls

show a big bounce for Ed Miliband and the Labour Party, with decent

numbers for UKIP. What do party councillors as they travel to their

For the Conservatives this weekend, conference, and as a scene setter we

asked ComRes to survey councillors are Finland and Wales. Councillors

asked ComRes to survey councillors like Tom, packing for conference at

home in Wellingborough. Immigration is an issue for him. He thinks there

are pros and cons. But we found is an issue for him. He thinks there

immigration has had a negative reflects into this wider issue of

our relationship with Europe. People possible influx of ovarian and

Romania emigrants. Obviously the issue of Europe is very big. --

Ukrainian. His colleagues in Corby are worried about the rise of the UK

Independence Party. In our survey, nearly a quarter of Conservative

councillors thought that their party should make a pact with UKIP. The

concern is, yes, will they take If that happens, maybe we don't

concern is, yes, will they take back in. Maybe a partnership is

concern is, yes, will they take way to go. It depends what they

concern is, yes, will they take talking about them. A pact? Depends

what they say, anything is possible. What would you like to see? Ideally,

from my point of view, a national pact. David Cameron arrived in

Manchester last night. Around the same time as these activists from

London. I broke the news to them that in our survey just 26% of Tory

councillors think that the prime ministers in touch with the lives of

ordinary people. The same at all Conservatives, you don't judge

people by their background. It's not where they come from, it is where

they are going to. It is not a where they come from, it is where

problem that he is a bit on the where they come from, it is where

side? Cull you might describe him like that, I would not use those

words. Explain your T-shirt, it like that, I would not use those

phrase that a senior Cameron person is alleged to have used about you?

phrase that a senior Cameron person party now that we are here to say

important. We are not going away any time soon. A sentiment you will

important. We are not going away any a lot at this conference, because

just 22% of councillors in our survey said that David Cameron was

any good at listening to the people that work hard for his party. That

was Adam. Joining me now from the Conservative Party conference in

William Hague. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Good morning. Over one in

five Tory councillors in our survey support a pact with UKIP at the

five Tory councillors in our survey election. Why do you think that

five Tory councillors in our survey If it is one in five, it means a

large majority did not want a pact with UKIP at the next election.

large majority did not want a pact have noticed that UKIP, in local

elections, has been receiving votes, some of which would otherwise have

been for the Conservatives. I think we have to make sure that people

election they are choosing between a Conservative and Labour Government,

as David Cameron as Prime Minister or Ed Miliband. If people want to

get a referendum on Europe, the or Ed Miliband. If people want to

Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a

general election is different from the local government perspective. It

is pretty unusual, some might say unprecedented, for a large chunk of

one of the big parties in this country to want to go into coalition

one of the big parties in this with a smaller party before an

three times as many didn't want with a smaller party before an

with statistics, you can highlight it whichever way around you want to.

The point is, we are not having pacts with other parties, electoral

pacts with other parties. You rule it out? That is not going to happen.

What we do want is to have a pact it out? That is not going to happen.

with the voters, if you like, as we have often done in the Conservative

Party. We have won over the voters of other parties to support our

important with those people that say important with those people that say

they want to vote for UKIP. By default, they would produce a Labour

government in the exact opposite of many of the things they intend,

government in the exact opposite of Conservative and decide to vote

government in the exact opposite of UKIP instead in a general election.

That could help to produce a Labour government. The chairman of the

That could help to produce a Labour committee, the elected voice of

Conservative backbenchers, he says your party should spell out what had

once back from the European Union before next year's European actions.

Do you agree? We will be spelling out some things in the European

elections. I will be talking about this later on today. For instance,

European treaties the concept of ever closer union, a concept that in

believed in. We would like that ever closer union, a concept that in

that. We will be setting out the examples and principles of the

changes we want to say. Certainly over the next year, not only before

the European actions but the general election, if you are saying, let

have the exact list of anything election, if you are saying, let

negotiate, that is difficult because there will be a negotiation of a new

deal in Europe if David Cameron there will be a negotiation of a new

election. To some extent, that has to be negotiated. Only 11% of your

own councillors feel that people in their area think that George Osborne

is in touch with ordinary people. is not for me to explain why people

say what they say in surveys. The important thing is what we are

delivering for the country. What George Osborne is delivering his

renewed economic growth. 1.4 million new jobs in the private sector,

renewed economic growth. 1.4 million for hard-working people, by reducing

the tax for 25 million of them. for hard-working people, by reducing

Help To Buy scheme that we are highlighting today. That is what

really matters to people, actually, I think you will find. Let's talk

about helping ordinary people. Ed Miliband is guilty freeze energy

prices. What are you going to do about energy prices, we already

asked energy companies to put people on their lowest tariffs. This has

Why not? This is going to happen within this government. It is going

to happen within this government when the... Why hasn't it happened

now? People are suffering now from rising energy prices. It has not

happened because my colleagues have been implimenting it. In the case of

Ed Miliband's policy, if you are asking why it has not yet happened

under this Government, it didn't even survive a few our's scrutiny in

opposition. In a few hours he had to concede that if there was a big

change in oil prices then the policy would not work. The trouble is,

change in oil prices then the policy would dry up some of the investment

in the energy industry. I don't think it is a credible promise.

in the energy industry. I don't a party that presided over council

tax bills doubling in the next a party that presided over council

tax bills doubling in the next government, -- last government,

tax bills doubling in the next not very credible. Why is George

Osborne going against the European Well, we don't want to see the

European treaties used in a way Well, we don't want to see the

they should not be used. It's not necessarily over this particular

issue. It is over the power that the European Union has over our lives

and over this country. Can the bankers look after themselves? We

should be able to decide those things in our own country. We have

never signed up to such matters things in our own country. We have

European institutions. If you allow one thing that wasn't meant to be

decided to be decided, you find one thing that wasn't meant to be

there are another ten or 20 things that affect many other people. We

are very vigilant about what we that affect many other people. We

competence creep, with the European Union taking more powers than it was

meant to have. That is one of the referendum, do want a new deal in

Europe. That is what we intend to institution, ICAP, fined for fixing

the LIBOR rates. The founder of institution, ICAP, fined for fixing

company has donated £5 million to your party. Shouldn't you give it

back? Aren't you ashamed to accept that money? He has donated his own

Which he made out of ICAP. As people have to other parties, people are

free to do that and they should have to other parties, people are

free to do that. I am not aware have to other parties, people are

any plan for that to be repaid. Because you can't afford to. Let's

recap this. We have seen Tory MPs parrot propaganda lines from the

energy companies this week. We have the Chancellor going to court to

fight for unlimited banker bonuses. We have a top Tory donor the centre

fight for unlimited banker bonuses. of yet another city scandal. Ed

Miliband is right when he says you lot are on the side of the vested

interests so the rich and powerful, isn't he? Well, again, look at the

record. I just did! 1.4 million Help To Buy scheme which is going to

help so many people, particularly young people have the house that

future. Council tax bills held down, welfare reform so that it pays to

work. Actually, this is a government achieving things for hard-working

While President Laugharne he's talking about peace, the Iranians

weapons programme. -- is talking. It would be hard to say from week

to week whether it is speeding up continuing with it. That is why

to week whether it is speeding up say the new message - the new words

- from Iranian leadership are very welcome. I said that to the Foreign

Minister in New York over the last few days but it is the actions that

will count. At the moment, the nuclear programme continues. We

negotiations on that and that will be a very important test as to

whether actions will match the words. When will we know it if we

are being strung along? He has strung as a long in the past as

are being strung along? He has nuclear weapons negotiator. When

will we know if he is not just doing that again? Over the next

will we know if he is not just more transparency over the Iranian

transparent in many regards at the moment. The atomic agency is asking

for information that is not being given. One test is, in the coming

information? The information that the international of authority is

asking for about their nuclear programme. We will be able to form

a view of this in the coming weeks or months. It is important we test

their new willingness to talk to us important to find out whether they

asking, is the nuclear programme really continuing? Are they really

negotiations and offer something Speaking of being strung along,

what sanctions would President Assad face if, in six months - the

Year, Syria still has a chemical weapons arsenal. In the resolution

we voted through the UN Security Council on Friday night, is the

Council will take measures under Chapter seven of the UN Charter

Council will take measures under the event of non-compliance. Does

that allow full force? I did not catch that. Does that allow for

in not allow full force. It does not specify that. It talks about

terms seven of the charter. That is a message of the whole UN Security

Council that there will be measures - there will be consequences - if

the Assad regime does not comply. has a big commitment. I have spent

counterpart over the last week. Russia has said, this is something

you will have to do. We will work with Russia and others very closely

to check there is compliance will this resolution. Given the progress

that has been made, you must be very glad that the British House of

Commons stopped your rash to force against Syria. -- rush. The reason

credible threat of military action. has happened is because there was a

credible threat of military action. President Obama did not get it

through Congress. They have not President Obama did not get it

the vote in Congress. There is no other explanation as to why the

policy changed. It was because there was a debate about military

action in the West that the policy changed on theirs. That is why it

the House of Commons was to have changed on theirs. That is why it

inspectors reported. It was before Russian and Syrian policy changed.

We need to make sure that works Russian and Syrian policy changed.

practice. Thank you. What do you make about this rushing forward

with the help to buy scheme which was meant to start next year -

coming forward mad to the next couple of weeks? I think it is a

Government having an interest in mortgage lending. -- there is a

fundamental problem. It should have been set much lower to exclude

London and the South East where houses are dramatically overvalued.

Many economists think freezing energy prices is a terrible policy.

These policies can be popular. If you have no chance of getting a

deposit, the Government will make Osborne tried every single lever.

It looked like he could not do anything to get the economy moving.

It is moving. They have pulled it forward and there are signs it is

It is moving. They have pulled it this week at the conference there

are real sort of understandable issues you can explain very simply

that really up going to improve people's lives. The Conservatives

Miliband's speech last week. The language used by David Cameron this

nuts. Much more cautious and -- language about the energy price

freeze. They are nervous that Ed Miliband may be touching a nerve on

that one. What we will get this week, I suggest, his Tory populism

to counter Miliband populism. I think we will see that and it will

be a mistake. As long as it is think we will see that and it will

about The Picture, they are on relatively strong ground. When the

political conversation changes to more fiddly things, particularities

standards, things that are some more fiddly things, particularities

below that picture, I do not think they can win a bidding war with

below that picture, I do not think Labour Party. It is about borrowing

against a party that stands for Labour Party. It is about borrowing

before the Labour conference, which not pay energy bills. Does not

sound that the Tories have anything not pay energy bills. Does not

to counter the price freeze. -- not pay energy bills. Does not

does not sound. They have had a week to think about a great attack

line and they do not add anything. They have just said, the lights

the credibility test. Ed Miliband said, if there were a big spike

the credibility test. Ed Miliband energy prices, he would not be able

it is about credibility. Being seen as serious and grown-up is worth

it is about credibility. Being seen more than any burst of popularity.

with the election campaign, it My worry about the announcement

with the election campaign, it begins to lose credibility, begins

to seem a banana republic. It looks a lot less wise than it did last

week. I disagree. Every time energy bills go up and they will continue

to go up, it will be a reminder bills go up and they will continue

how much people are being hit in the pockets. People

how much people are being hit in prices are going up.

how much people are being hit in structural change in the world that

how much people are being hit in was not there before - China and

India. These energy companies may be making huge profit but, at the

end of the day, what is driving up the cost of fuel is China and India.

Ed Miliband, great man that he is, I am not sure he can take on the

people Sammir on that one. How dare you! -- the People's Army. Ed

Miliband came out fighting at Labour's Conference in Brighton

last week. Dogged by criticism over the summer of his leadership style

and lack of policies, Mr Miliband tried to demonstrate his strength

of character with a series of bold announcements, and attempted to

position himself on the side of ordinary Brits. The Labour leader

told party members he would stand up to the strong and take on the

vested interests that hold back our up to the strong and take on the

economy. In a speech in which he jokingly referred to himself as an

action hero, Mr Miliband promised to switch the forthcoming business

action hero, Mr Miliband promised tax cut from large firms to smaller

businesses. He said he would force big firms to train at an apprentice

every time they bring in a worker from outside the EU. He hinted that

increasing the minimum wage would be increased. He bowed to take on

developers with a use it or lose it threat to landowners and pledged to

build 200,000 homes each year by 2020. He promised to freeze energy

prices and reset the energy market. The next Labour

prices and reset the energy market. freeze gas and electricity prices

until the start of 2017. That provoked a rash of headlines -

hailing the return of red Ed macro. It has also given him a spike in

the polls. And Labour's Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint

joins me now for the Sunday Interview.

Ed Miliband says, our energy market is broken and does not work. In

what way is that market to date different from the one Labour left

behind in 2010? We have six companies that dominate the energy

sector. It is the same. They generate energy, and sell it on to

us. What we recognise and Ed Miliband recognised when he was

Secretary of State and asked for more information from the company

Secretary of State and asked for is on hold serve costs and profits,

all the things we have done to mitigate against that in terms of a

warm front programme and everything else has not dealt with the

fundamental problem that the Horsell market is too secretive and

it is too much about such supply. - - the wholesale market. We have

been raising with the Government in a co-operative way the argument for

resetting the market. It has got worse in terms of speed at which

prices have gone up. Labour put worse in terms of speed at which

wholesale and retail together. It worse in terms of speed at which

was the start this dates back to Margaret Thatcher and the

privatisation. We took some reforms to reset the market. We have

realised it was not working and it was broken and we need to reset it.

Ed Miliband will be the first to say we did not do enough from 2005

onwards. Let's have a look at what happened to energy prices under the

Labour government. Electricity up 67%, gas up 139%. Overall prices up

by 48%. The market was broken and the Government as well. From 2005,

we saw prices biking as wholesale prices went up. The tick action on

the one Front programme, decent homes for social housing. -- we

took action on per warm front programme. Trying to do things

around social obligations needs to be looked at. Gas and electricity

bills are high partially as a consequence of the market you

presided over but as a consequence of Labour policy. Beds have a look

at the breakdown of dual fuel - gas and electricity bill. -- let's have

a look. The supply costs of getting it to us and so on. The policies

that were introduced by your government - Green levies - are

adding almost 10% to has told energy bills. £112 on average

adding almost 10% to has told of 1188. You have put the bill up.

Eight -- social and green obligations amount to £112. That

helps the poorest insulate homes. Overwhelmingly, looking at your

graph and the figures I have, wholesale costs are worth more than

half. What we have seen, based on figures we now have, in Eni macro,

a wholesale costs fell by 39% and that was not reflected in our bills.

Do you have plans to do anything about the £112? If you took that

off, you could cut bills by 10% tomorrow. Or if you were in power.

It is important that restimulate the opportunity to grow clean

energy. It -- we stimulate. If we do not have clean energy, we will

be beholden for ever-more to fossil do not have clean energy, we will

fuels that are depleting. It will create jobs and bring in investment

will start in the last few years, we have seen investment in

renewable energy half. -- in investment. If I could go back to

competition in the markets, whatever advance there are, looking

at whether the money raised through energy companies to deliver energy

efficiency, is that doing as well as it might? Could it

efficiency, is that doing as well delivered by another agency?

efficiency, is that doing as well are fair questions. We need to get

ahead of that and look at the market. Can we make the market will

competitive make sure when there is downward pressure on wholesale

prices, that is reflected on our bills? That is the bigger picture

argument. Also the freeze to help people during that period.

As you complain about the energy prices, it was as a result of your

actions. Ed Miliband introduced the climate change act. He admitted

prices would have to rise to pay for decarbonisation. He said, we are

going to minimise the costs as much as possible, but it is true there is

not a low-cost energy future out there. It is important that we

address the pressures on bills, but also recognise that if we are going

to build a better future where we can have more home-grown British

energy and, in the long-term, cheaper, we need to invest in

renewables. Truth is it is about the market. I acknowledge I acknowledge

eyes what you say about the 112. I am not going to disagree. But

wholesale prices have fallen. They fell in 2009, we got a reduction in

bills of 5%. Which are saying that the big companies are overcharging

customers. We are seeing profits going up, but we haven't seen the

amount of investment suggested by those profits coming through. But

amount of investment suggested by that £125 is going to get worse,

because your leader said in his speech in Brighton that Labour will

have a world leading commitment in Government to take out all carbon

from energy generation by 2030. That is not that far away. By 2030, no

more coal generation, no more gas generation, only much more expensive

nuclear and much more expensive renewables. It cannot be done

without bills going up even further? Hang on a second. The 2030 target to

remove carbon from the electricity supply, we have said we should set a

target now because, actually, it gives us more time to plan ahead and

also allows investment to come in. There is plenty of people with cash

in their pockets not want to invest what they are stalling because of

the Government's hesitancy over this. I just want a clarification

here. My understanding is that your commitment is to get rid of all

carbon from power generation by 2030? From the letters city supply.

Only electricity. We will still have gas? We have always said we will

need gas for decades to come. So we are clear for that. But you will be

increasingly dependent on expensive nuclear. EDF are currently demanding

twice the market price to build plans in this country. Renewables

are two or three times the market price. Bills are going up under your

policies, and the coalition policies? On nuclear,

policies, and the coalition that we needed to revitalise the

sector, to hit targets on clean that we needed to revitalise the

energy and make sure it can do the heavy lifting. The Government at the

present time are engaged in heavy lifting. The Government at the

discussions with EDF about what the strike price should be. It's

important, because I don't know what it's going to be, it is important

that stands up to scrutiny in terms of value for money. At the same

time, I go back to market reforms. We will not just have a target for

difference, the jargon for nuclear, we will have it for renewables as

well. That is even more important, that we have a transparent market so

that we can have a robust target price to be judged against. Michael

Gove recognised in question time that the market was not working. The

Telegraph said in its editorial, they used the term cosy cartel. We

have former advisers to David Cameron saying something needs to be

done. I'm surprised David Cameron doesn't acknowledge that. You are

going to freeze prices for 20 months and will come up with a new

regulator to replace Ofgem. Will that regulator have the power to

regulator to replace Ofgem. Will control prices? The new energy

watchdog will have a strategy responsibility to monitor the

wholesale costs and prices, which it currently doesn't have at the

moment. As a result of that it will currently doesn't have at the

have the power that, if the wholesale prices fall, it can force

the energy companies, if they don't, to pass on reductions in

the energy companies, if they don't, see in some parts of the European

Union, 15 of them, that have a variety of price controls that set

things at below inflation and what have you. France, Spain, Italy. It

will not do that. Why? Because we are looking at a temporary price

freeze to reflect a reduction in are looking at a temporary price

wholesale prices, to give the British public respite from ever

climbing bills while they get reforms into the market. At the end

of this, what we want is a more competitive market that can be

trusted, that is more transparent. We do believe it is right that,

actually, we need a regulator that has much more of a role in making

sure the market is managed effectively. Are you accusing energy

companies of profiteering? EU I am accusing them of overcharging and

not passing on wholesale reduction costs to the customer in a fair way.

Of making Carter -- cartel profits? I do believe that the level of

profits they have passed on to their shareholders is high, compared to

the reductions they could have provided to consumers. Let's look at

the evidence for that. Here are the British owned companies, SSE and

Centrica. In the last fiscal year they made combined earnings of £4

billion. But they they made combined earnings of £4

billion. The remaining money went to debt servicing and paying dividends,

which go into pension funds. Where in these figures is the

profiteering? My figures that I got through their reporting to Ofgem and

work done by other organisations, Witch and others, it shows that in

Centrica's case they have something like 8% return in profit margins on

the retail side. That goes up to 24% on the generation side. They have

passed on, in terms of profits, something I70 4% through evidence to

shareholders. But these figures don't show that. They have invested

£3 billion. I am reporting what has been reported by Ofgem. Ofgem has

not accused them of property in. They may well be, but we don't have

the evidence. I would accuse Ofgem of not doing the job they should be

doing, and they have held back from tackling the issue. It is

acknowledged, across the sector, across the big six, something like

50% of profits has gone over to dividends to shareholders. In

Centrica's case it is 74%. On the Centrica example, even though they

have had the highest profit margins, they have invested the least. It is

fair to question. We are running out of time. None of us really know what

the true price of energy is that is Labour's policy to reform his

crucial. That is because he merged Labour's policy to reform his

freeze, if they don't invest in a way that they do, do you rule out

wholesale nationalisation? Absolutely. I want a more

competitive market and that is why we are resetting it. You are

watching Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes I will be

looking at the week ahead with our political panel

Hello, good morning you're watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire

and Lincolnshire. Coming up today...David Cameron tells us the

government will investigate claims that workers on zero—hours contracts

are being exploited. Our guest today are Diana Johnson,

Labour MP for whole north, and also Chris Hopkins, the Conservative MP

for Keighley. And Godfrey Bloom, who is now an independent MEP after he

decided he would no longer be standing for UKIP in the European

Parliament. Was it something you said? It might have been. So, you

are going to stand as an independent right up until the elections next

year, but you will remain a UKIP member. I will, as long as they

allow me to remain a UKIP member. We will talk about recent events later

in the programme. Chris Hopkins, Labour had

conference last week. How does your party respond to that? There was an

interesting thing is that the Labour Party said. Ed Miliband had some

interesting ideas. Most of them fell over just a few hours later. The big

one for me was Ed Miliband talking about the freeze on energy prices.

There is some real merit in having that conversation. Possibly not the

brightest move was to actually give a heads up to those industries out

there that in two years time, if he was in power, he would freeze the

prices. Diana Johnson, what do you make of these claims that your party

has lurched sharply to the left? Well, the energy announcement was

about being on the side of customers and businesses as well, saying that

the market currently is not working and we need to reset it, to get a

new regulator in, and to get prices down to a fair level. So we are on

the side of customers and businesses. The Prime Minister has

told the Sunday politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire that the

government will investigate claims that zero our contracts are being

abused by some employers. A growing number of workers are believed to be

employed on the contracts West Africa than no guarantees about how

many hours they will work. McDonald's and Sports Direct. What

they have in common? They both employ thousands on zero contracts.

Are these the way forward, or they trapping people into uncertainty?

Vince Cable has announced there will be a review on the contracts. What

are they? They are a flexible contract with no guarantee of work.

Employers do not have to pay sick leave or holiday pay. It is mainly

retell, catering, education and health care industries. Berra no

definite figures, but some research say up to 5 million people could be

on these contracts. Ian Dalton used to be employed on them. Now, he

campaigns against them. I was a student, so they were supposedly

very good for me. Initially, it was, it did fit around university and

enable me to have enough money to live on when my student loan didn't

come through for two months. But you could be called in at any time, so

it meant I couldn't take part in some of the stuff I wanted to do,

such as placements. I was actually made redundant by the company

without any warning. The worst of this owes more to Victorian

practices than 21st—century fairness at work. A Labour government is

going to change it. Ed Miliband spoke of his concerned —— his

concerns at a meeting earlier this month. Local representatives agree

something needs to be done. It really is just an abuse. What we

need is proper investment, a proper industrial strategy, to get the

Yorkshire economy moving. They are saying the southern economy is

moving, but things are getting worse. Up here, we had rises in

unemployment. We've done extensive research on this. Some people

welcome the flexibility they give. These contracts or used in the

public sector than the private sector. But we're having a review to

ask about the questions and changes that need to be made. But we should

not lose the flexible working market. We've got 1.4 million extra

private sector jobs since 2010. Lets not lose that. The Institute of

directors has spoken out in support of the contracts, insisting they

provide flexibility to employers who face unknown levels of demand and

workloads. For Lorraine Turner, who runs a shop in Leeds, it has given

her the chance to keep her business running. They are a necessity to our

business. No customer guarantees a continuation of work. We have no

guaranteed income. So we have to staff in accordance with our

workflow at that time. With this out our performing the North

economically, zero hours contracts the way for some Yorkshire

businesses to stay afloat? Do you worry that many workers on

these contracts are being exploited? I would be concerned, and I would

certainly challenge that behaviour. I want to correct some of the facts

there. The Prime Minister said there is an investigation going on and

people will examine them. We are joined at the hip on this issue, the

coalition. But I actually asked the House of Commons library for the

figures on this, and about 3% or 4% of all people are on these

contracts. That is about 1 million people, not 5 million. And nearly

90% are content with the hours they get. So there are 100,000 people

that we need to set about understanding how to get more for

them. And we do that by growing the economy, educating them in the best

way we can. Diana Johnson, do you accept there are many people on

these contracts who are quite happy with their flexible working

arrangements? I think we heard in the package, students in particular

want to have these contracts because it fits in with their study and

doing part—time work. But what Labour is saying is we want to stop

these zero hours contracts where they are exploiting people. We want

as many people as possible to proper contracts with hours and wage

they know they will every week. We do accept this can work in some

cases, but we want to stop it being misused. Recently, I heard somebody

is going to be made redundant, and the employer put them on a zero

hours contract to stop them from being paid in redundancy payment.

That needs to be stopped. Godfrey Bloom, the Labour conference said

this is like going back to the Victorian mill owner, do you agree?

Of course that is nonsense. There are so many rules and regulations

when it comes to employing anybody that it is mind blowing. What we

need in a free, democratic, parliamentary society is liberty of

contract. I've been arguing this now for nearly ten years. It should not

be the role of government to interfere between an employer and an

employee. They must come to their own decision of what is suitable for

them and make it work. A free market. That would be very much more

fruitful for young people. What they need to do is take away the

appalling over government spending so we have 20% VAT, people on

relatively small salaries paying income taxes and national insurance.

They need to free the market up. That is the way to go forward. Chris

Hopkins, there is a feeling that, as unemployment starts to fall, many of

the new jobs being created are not new jobs at all. I did think that is

true. We've seen unemployment is now lower than it was when the coalition

came to power. There are more people employed now than ever, more women

employed. Ed Miliband the other day said we were going back to Victorian

times. They were in power than 13 years and a sentence with zero hours

contracts was never whispered or shouted. Now suddenly they have

become a virtuous party trying to address this issue. I agree that

where people are being exploited, we needed that we need to step in. I

disagree that we need a free market. We need constraints to ensure

individuals are not being exploited. These contracts are not new, are

they, Diana Johnson? No, but we do know they have grown hugely under

the coalition government. The idea of 1.4 private sector jobs, if you

look at what they are, a lot of them are zero hours contracts. People are

only going to get paid if they sell things on commission. So we need to

be clear about that 1.4 million jobs. It is not all roses. And I do

think there is exploitation. God boy is working on the basis of economic

policies of the 1850s. —— Godfrey. That is not how we work in 2013,

that is not how we going to get the best economic growth in our country.

Would these people sooner zero hours contract or no contract

at all? That is the question. Identity it is a straight choice in

that way, actually. Let's get some more of the weeks

political news. Sean Stowell has our round—up in 60 seconds.

The late—night drinking laws have been an absolute disaster, according

to the police and crime commissioner by Humberside. He says resources are

being seriously overstretched. The experiment in liberalising licensing

laws has failed in my opinion. In his keynote speech, Ed Miliband

reignited debate over political identity. He announced energy price

freezes if Labour got back into power, sparking claims of a return

to state control. Sports Minister Hugh Robertson ruled out any more

government money being made available first Yorkshire's part of

the Tour de France. 10 million is a very generous grant from central

government. A petition to bring the remains of

Richard III to York has closed, with nowhere near the number of

signatures needed to secure a House of Commons debate. 30,000 people

called by him to be interred in York Minster rather than Leicester

Cathedral. Chris Hopkins, if Ed Miliband on to

something when he puts the needs of hard—pressed energy consumers at the

heart of his policy, head profit—making energy firms? I think

it is right and all parties are looking at how to address that. We

just coming out of the deepest recession in 100 years and there

have been huge consequences are households. —— for households. What

I'm concerned about is that the Prime Minister should get those

energy companies in the room and look at how to make tariffs simpler.

I will give you some figures. Ed Miliband says he will save £120 per

year per household. He actually introduced some decarbonising

taxation which added £125 per household per year. I received just

a day after the wonderful speech from Ed any e—mail from a comparison

website saying I could reduce my bill by £289 tomorrow if I actually

switched. So it is a great debate and it is important we are having

it, but it was too simplified. Like I said before, he has given these

people two years had up to increase the prices. Diana Johnson, can you

100% guaranteed to your constituents that we will not have power

shortages or blackouts as some companies claim if his plans go

ahead? Well, it was interesting that the Conservatives and Lib Dems came

out to defend the big six energy companies, and then

would blackmail us by threatening blackouts. It is nonsense. These

companies are making huge amounts of money by making money over the

odds. I think it was absolutely right that it is flagged up. It is

not working and we need to resolve that. I'm disappointed that David

Cameron has not been able to get some action. He's had all the energy

companies round for tea at Number Ten, but nothing seems to have

changed. I'm hoping it will make a real difference to people in my

constituency in the future. And Godfrey Bloom is now going to tell

us that cleaner, greener power is the way forward! Well, the reason it

is so expensive is it is a shambles. Windmills do not work. We are

closing power stations. The whole thing is getting more expensive.

These big pro —— profits that they are making, they are making 4% on

capital. They are not making huge profits. It looks big if you look at

the numbers, but if you look at the input on the capital, it is not that

much. What about all those new jobs in Diana Johnson's constituency

building wind turbines? Sorely you support back? —— surely you support

that? That every job that is gained in the green energy factor, you lose

three. They are sacking people in the steel industry and the caravan

industry because energy is too expensive. Politicians are

interfering with the market again and making a complete mess of it. It

is shocking that your —— Godfrey Bloom is a Yorkshire MEP is not

standing up the jobs in this area. It is shocking and outrageous. I am

standing up the caravans and the steel industry. Jobs are going

abroad because they cannot afford be energy bills. If you had been in

business for as long as me, you would understand how it works. You

are talking down major investment in a city like whole, the area that you

represent. That is out of order. —— city like Hull. Chris Hopkins, how

should labour respond to the energy bills rising? Well, the great leader

in his lurch to the left the other day missed out the fact that he was

the energy minister for some time in the last government, and never

raised this, never perceive this as an issue. The Prime Minister, I've

got to say I've been quite impressed by senior cabinet members saying

that the issue being raised is important. The idea of big —— giving

a heads up to these big companies is a false economy, and I'm afraid we

may see the consequences of that speech.

In the space of less than four days, Godfrey Bloom went from being one of

UKIP's most high—profile MEPs to being suspended by the party over

his use of the word "sluts". He decided he no longer wanted to

represent UKIP in the European Parliament. Not for the first time,

the events of the past few days have propelled him into the glare of the

media spotlight... I did then we've ever met before. —— I don't think.

We can't possibly give this kind of money to bongo—bongo land. I got

6000 e—mails and only 24 when not agreeing with me. You're the one

that is out of touch. I've always told like it is. I made a joke and

said, oh, well you are all sluts. They all laughed, even all the

women. Do you think that is acceptable? I've had hundreds of

e—mails saying, can you not make a joke anymore? I'm a bit long in the

tooth now to do political correctness. I understand that UKIP

has moved on and I wish them well. What do you make of

of this brochure with no black faces on it? What a racist comment is

that. How appalling. You are picking people out for the colour of their

skin, that is disgusting. Perhaps the way we do things now

isn't the way I do these things. You are disgraceful. Disgraceful! Will

you be exchanging Christmas cards with that journalist? I will make

sure I carry a piece of lead piping to carry in my magazine in future.

Do you regret your actions at the conference? In particular, the use

of that word? No, not for one minute. It was a joke. They played

the tape yesterday and everyone in the country knew it was a joke. It

is just the nonsense road that politics has gone down, I'm afraid.

Diana Johnson, do you think Nigel Farage and his leadership friends

were right to take a tough line with Godfrey? I think what this is about

is presentation. I think Godfrey had one too many bloomers, and Nigel

thought, enough is enough. But actually what Godfrey is talking

about are the politics that UKIP stands for. So, while presentation

league he is a problem that UKIP, the policies he is talking about are

their policies. So we need to remember this is just about Godfrey

as a person and not Well, he no longer represents the

party. He is still a member of the party. They haven't thrown out.

That's why I think it is still about the policies. And very popular

policies they are. You've seen the e—mails we have in support. I have

not seen any e—mails. I might be a bit politically correct, but most of

your viewers and listeners writing to say, I agree with you. I think

you are just out of touch. You are in the 1950s. I think you are out of

touch and the voters are beginning to spot it. Chris Hopkins, one of

the points Godfrey Bloom made was that UKIP are becoming like new

Labour. Does that become a threat to you? If they are becoming a

disciplined, polished political outfit, it is the Conservatives that

could suffer, isn't it? I'm not going to kick Godfrey while he's

down. I'll be honest, when somebody is in that situation, I think that

package will be a great training package to any potential candidate

from any party which will be played over and over again. New Labour, the

hypocrisy of it. I've been reading today about a by—election candidate

for Labour who has used some appalling language. This person has

been forced publicly to apologise for that language. This guy fell on

his sword and resigned and did the decent thing. New Labour

apparently can just polish over it, dust over it, and forget about it.

There is some hypocrisy going on there. He responded appropriately,

and they didn't. I completely disagree with that. I think all of

us would say that in politics you have to use an acceptable language,

you have to put forward your arguments in a sensible way, try not

to offend people. Say what you think, but do so using appropriate

language. Calling women sluts is not appropriate in the public sphere.

Have you listened to the clip? Yes, I've seen you defending this clip ad

nauseam. But you haven't listened to the clip, have you? That's the

point. Listen to the clip. You are out of touch, Godfrey. Just one

Twitter message from you. —— for you. Janet says, now you have left

the party, will you be retiring to bongo—bongo land? If it is funny, I

jolly well world. So, we'll David Cameron's marriage

tax break win over voters? How will So, we'll David Cameron's marriage

conference initiatives? And what is UKIP leader Nigel FarageFarage up to

conference initiatives? And what is with the Tories in Manchester?

On this business of a possible Tory- UKIP pact, in a general election,

let's see what David Cameron had to say about that earlier. I am not

looking for a packed. I think we need to give people a clear choice

at the general election. The British economy has turned a corner. We

at the general election. The British on the right track, we are seeing

more jobs, new businesses, we are beginning to get things moving

again. Do you want to stick with us, hard-working people, or do you want

to put it at risk with Ed Miliband hard-working people, or do you want

and his crazy plans to tax business out of existence? That was the Prime

there any appetite on the UKIP side discussions around the country,

there any appetite on the UKIP side would say no. It's being discussed,

is the media that is pushing this. It has reflected what has happened

conference season began. Labour It has reflected what has happened

trying to reclaim what I would call position. I'm not sure what the

Liberal Democrats or two, but the Conservatives are trying to react to

the right, which the media wants to interpret as them possibly being

able to do some sort of pact with interpret as them possibly being

able to do some sort of pact with UKIP. Have you given any thought to

whatsoever. It is not on the radar. I have read comments, including

Carswell, the Eurosceptics, that they might form a potential, let's

call it, you know, cabinet. If there were UKIP members, I don't doubt

that Nigel Farage would be one of them. But I would reiterate it is

not discussions that are taking place. I am thinking more of an

have responded to that by saying, the moment, there are no ongoing

discussions. There is certainly constituency level or coming out of

believe any constituencies are Eurosceptics? I am not privy to

believe any constituencies are all 360 constituencies might be

discussing. All I can do is give you the example of the few I have seen

and know it is not on the agenda. Without a pact, it is perfectly

possible that you could fail to Without a pact, it is perfectly

a single seat at the next election, but put Ed Miliband into Downing

Street? Categorically not. There are a number of seats out there that are

very clear marginals, just like a number of seats out there that are

Izzard was. I believe there could be an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If

you take enough votes away from an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If

Tories, if you make sure that Labour wins? I will go back to the comment

I made. If you take Eastleigh as an example, a Liberal Democrat held

seat, even after that result, does not mean that UKIP is suddenly going

to be focusing on Tory seats. We are out there because people resonate

with our message. For the Liberal Democrats to make it abundantly

clear that they will not support a referendum, that they will not

support any discussion on leaving the queue, that could be a big

turn-off for voters. David Cameron says there is not going to be a

pact, Diane James says there is says there is not going to be a

going to be one. There might be says there is not going to be a

or at a constituency level. But says there is not going to be a

seems clear to me that there will not be a national one. So, does

David Cameron have a UKIP strategy? The only encouraging thing for

UKIP's successful David Cameron that the moment that he would only

that their support is so enormous that the moment that he would only

really need to win back maybe a third or a quarter of its to make a

decisive difference to the Tory share of the vote in 2015. The

question becomes, how much of that UKIP support is up for grabs? A

question becomes, how much of that last week suggested that 47% of

current UKIP voters would consider voting Tory if it meant preventing

Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister. That number goes up to 57% against

recovery. So, plausibly, there is David Cameron do to win over those

people? He has tried a Europe will referendum and it didn't work. He

tried travelling up his immigration policy and that didn't work. I

wonder if it is time. You wait until the run-up to 2015, when they start

to focus on the explicit choice Cameron, and that is what shifts a

Cameron. We heard from William Hague earlier in the programme, the Tory

line is that if you vote UKIP you could end up with Ed Miliband in

Downing Street. That is the simple appeal, isn't it? Yes, and I think

Diane is right, I think the European elections will show a good showing

for UKIP. It is deemed the one where you can play away. I think it will

be hard for people to get excited about that, I think that bounce

be hard for people to get excited fade away. In Eastleigh, they had a

good ground game, that is difficult for UKIP, that don't have that

machinery sorted. How are they going to fund that operation? But the

machinery sorted. How are they going bounce could fade away after the

European elections. Even if they go election, they are still immensely

dangerous to the Conservative Party. But there is really only two things

David Cameron can do. One is to But there is really only two things

boring and talk about helping people with their mortgage, helping with

bread and butter issues. The second thing is, those European actions, he

fun, next year do you want me or Ed tends to the natural Conservative

fun, next year do you want me or Ed Miliband us your prime and? The

fun, next year do you want me or Ed danger with David Cameron is saying,

of course, there is not going to be a pact, the danger is you will get a

repeat of the 1977 election. John Major said, famously, do not bind my

hands. A series of Conservative personally rule out membership of

the euro, when the Conservative membership was wait and see. That

looked like a Prime Minister not in charge of his party. The danger

looked like a Prime Minister not in Let's assume you do really well

looked like a Prime Minister not in the European actions and there is a

widespread expectation that you will, even in Downing Street. They

might be managing expectations. will, even in Downing Street. They

stops you fading away as the general election approaches? A number of

reasons. As has been mentioned, election approaches? A number of

whole issue of the referendum pledge has been proved to be an absolute

nonsense. It is so contingent on if I am re-elected, if it's not a

coalition government, is, if, if. That was fooled nobody. The issue of

where voters are coming from, it is because they have lost faith in

where voters are coming from, it is David Cameron says. There is nothing

he is going to say that is convince think that is my view and the view

of a lot of UKIP. I am told that they have expunged Nigel Farage

of a lot of UKIP. I am told that the fringes? It is a great scoop, on

ring of steel. Even so, they won't the fringes? It is a great scoop, on

ring of steel. Even so, they won't programme, so they must be worried

paid money for adverts in the Tory about something. His people have

paid money for adverts in the Tory brochure and his name has been taken

out. Speaking of people the Tory brochure and his name has been taken

leadership is worried about, Boris Johnson, are we in any doubt as

leadership is worried about, Boris interview that he is now beginning

his long march back to Parliament? He does express feeling slightly sad

during the Syria debate that he He does express feeling slightly sad

not there, on the political front line to participate. I still do

not there, on the political front see why it is in his interest is to

move before 2015. No, I don't think he will move before, I think he

move before 2015. No, I don't think sending a signal to the existing

Tories in the Commons that when sending a signal to the existing

Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the Vince Cable problem, if you

Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the same thing too many times,

people get bored and factor it in. The interesting thing is him saying

that people have seven years before the electorate get bored of them. He

might be cresting that. He doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he is

much more ambitious than that. He wants to be an emperor. He was

asked, which Roman emperor would you like to be compared to? You said,

important. I don't think you are thinking big enough. See what I

important. I don't think you are virtue of being born in the US,

important. I don't think you are could be president. Unlike Arnold

Schwarzenegger. How about a deal with Boris? He has made no secret,

after Eastleigh, that he would be open to a discussion. Let's call it

no more than a discussion. He has been adamant, however, he does not

see any reason, any justification or any opportunity where he would be

able to have that discourse with any opportunity where he would be

David Cameron. Maybe it comes down to that on both sides. I've no idea.

We know that the Tories will be to that on both sides. I've no idea.

more Eurosceptic after the next election? I can't imagine David

Cameron's successor will be somebody that supports EU membership in

ideological direction of the party. The leadership contest will be about

this is a great deal for Britain membership, are you going to say

this is a great deal for Britain because the Prime Minister has

turned to leave rapid change two words in the working Time directive,

turned to leave rapid change two or are you going to become a leader

by saying, I want out? What would be a good conference for David Cameron

eye-catching announcement related to living standards. May be a clearer

line on energy prices? That would certainly help, that fightback has

been rubbish so far. The thing we should be looking out for are not

everything gets to settle down and then we will see what happens. In a

word, what is Nigel Farage out to get at the Tory conference? What is

he doing, other than mischief? I could almost say revenge. Revenge on

Mr Cameron? Yes. You know? Lord Ashcroft was there at the Labour

conference. You call it mischief, but there is every reason why he

should be there. We all call it mischief. Thanks for being with

should be there. We all call it Join me on Daily Politics for live

coverage of the Conservative Party conference tomorrow morning from

11:30 on BBC Two. We will bring conference tomorrow morning from

George Osborne's speech live and uninterrupted. I'll be back next

weekend when guests will include former Conservative Chancellor

Kenneth Clarke. Remember, if it former Conservative Chancellor

Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.