13/10/2013 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's

Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he

has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps

going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.

going on and on and on. He'll bang will be with us. We'll ask him for

Stay with us for Yorkshire's show, Diane Abbott

Stay with us for Yorkshire's show, why tougher restrictions on the sale

of cigarettes have left Euro MPs at loggerheads.

of cigarettes have left Euro MPs at of human trafficking and that men

pundits who we try to shuffle out of a job but failed miserably, Mick

watt, Miranda Green Andijan an Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if

Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen

a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could

Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the

Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools

after all. Here he is on the BBC viewers. If you are a group of

parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting

parents, social entrepreneurs, school in areas where you need new

school place, the Labour Government enterprise and innovation. It will

school place, the Labour Government be in areas of need. We have a

school places crisis going on. It teachers in these schools. And

accountability. What is going on with the Al Madina school is because

of terrible mistakes with Michael I'm not sure if the policies have

changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have

changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and

changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of

reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying

Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip

from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of

need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,

we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set

these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

polarised. You've had the Michael Gove's advisers which are extreme

views about the state of education. And on the other side teaching

unions. It hasn't led to a healthy debate which represents what parents

want out of schools or employers. This is a huge move from the Labour

Party to sound more reasonable. This is a huge move from the Labour

have been silent on education which is a huge policy area on the left.

Is this a focus group-driven change? They've seen the polls. Welfare

reforms are hugery popular and free only apiece the focus groups by

changing the policy substantially. I always thought a test for this

Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed Miliband would promote Blair rights,

it is clear he did, it is whether they would be allowed to be Blair

rights. When Stephen Twigg carried the education portfolio it was clear

his own views were closer to the Government than he was allowed to

let on. He was constrained. There is no point of giving Tristram Hunt

this job if he is not allowed to say what he thinks. I wouldn't mind

betting privately he thinks free schools should be available beyond

just areas of need. He hasn't yet defined need. It could be, we've run

schools are so bad we need schools. itsing Government policy. In they

unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of

higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience

he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for

Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD

from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper

teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not

have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never

been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow

free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to

Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do

the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more

#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,

rumours, guesses. But the only way now, the only way we knew who was in

and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street

and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to

see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the

back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started

can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties

changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.

Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit

Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm

disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been

able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one

imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and

simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of

the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic

Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet

Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

ranks were shifting too. The PM Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and

turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men

backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends

of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers

of George Osborne. And, all the learning of Labour's changes. Labour

too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.

Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de

peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing

peer row would be hard to describe past out of the picture seemed to be

the name of the day. Liam Byrne With Diane Abbott also gone, was

this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right

used to mean someone who wanted depends what you mean. Blair right

Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely

with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain

with him. Now it means sometimes of ideologyies or ideas. There are

still very much those kind of Blair rights within the party. But we

still very much those kind of Blair seeing the group around Tony Blair

are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was

over. New bees were sharing the they once were. By evening, it was

raters. Or -- commiserators. Or they once were. By evening, it was

disified. How much much someone standing here might want it to be

the case, you are unlikely to get someone coming out of that do going

"how could." And running off crying! And the brand, spanking new Scottish

Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins us from Orkney on a line that hasn't

been used since the fleet was used in the outbreak of World War I! I

wasn't around at the time. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Why

wasn't around at the time. I'm you agreed to run a department?

wasn't around at the time. I'm you wanted to abolish six years

wasn't around at the time. I'm Hello? Maybe our connections are not

Charmichael. Can you hear me? I Hello? Maybe our connections are not

hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.

Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department

you wanted to abolish six years have you agreed to run a department

Because this is the, probably one of the most important jobs in British

politics at the moment. To ensure that Scotland remains part of the

UK. Even when I was talking about Scotland within Whitehall, there was

always a job to be done. That is true in spades now. I will focus on

making sure the UK Government has a real voice in that debate. What

making sure the UK Government has a you that Michael Moore didn't have?

Look, I think Michael Moore did you that Michael Moore didn't have?

excellent job. The work he did delivering the Edinburgh agreement

clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to

substantial piece of work. I'm not friend of mine. I will say that

substantial piece of work. I'm not we go forward into this, this is now

about the actual debate itself. we go forward into this, this is now

will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to

just some abstract debate about nationhood, sovereignty, this is a

their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot

challenge. I understand that. But if you're being put in there to save

the union, every pole has the no -- poll has the no campaign margin

alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing pretty well to save the union. I

suspect you've been given the job to Scotland? And lieu, you misread

suspect you've been given the job to situation if you -- Andrew, you

misread the situation new think anybody is going to be the person

who will save the union. The people who will save the union are the

people of Scotland if they turn who will save the union are the

next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for

that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own

party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You

were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in

fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the

Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for

everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for

a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could

have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and

for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in

three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition

survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I

was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.

So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.

As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also

As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls

the future. I will be out there the referendum vote, opinion polls

the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next

election nor the referendum is one or lost yet. One of the things I

really want to be guarding against because we are a good margin ahead

today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.

Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal

Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the

You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should

David Cameron face him? I am happy debate. Should David Cameron face

him? No, because that allows Alex Nationalists to portray this as

him? No, because that allows Alex sort of contest or choice between a

vision of Scottish social democracy and English conservativism, which it

is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to

be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

not Scottish and I think he will Darling. He has got a Scottish name

wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described

the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were

you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I

think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I

we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we

are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we

hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has

published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the

head. I am not giving up the battle for the hearts and Scotland because

there is a good strong case, as somebody who is proud to be Scottish

and to be British, for Scotland somebody who is proud to be Scottish

remain part of the UK. You come somebody who is proud to be Scottish

distilleries and I understand you celebratory drink for your new post.

Not a drop has touched my lips. celebratory drink for your new post.

of November, I will be doing it celebratory drink for your new post.

aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if website, they can donate. It is

worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister

who many thought might get Reef better cause. One Cabinet minister

Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,

minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I

would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it

would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy

it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry

on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry

I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this

reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,

asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

of the Security Council so he has you keep going? What do you hope to

achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since

I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get

governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems

is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is

is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.

The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you

might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you

bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you

that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you

experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the

Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and

representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have

firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is

Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in

politicians are able to look after the living standards, the economy,

the safety against terrorism. Last the living standards, the economy,

summer you said that only extreme nationalists wanted a silly EU

referendum. It follows your party must be full of extremely silly

nationalists. The people who are desperate to have a referendum are

all the people who actually want to referendum will involve the public

and people like me have got to get across to the public, don't just

feel angry about the last thing across to the public, don't just

commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on

influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we

spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being

threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will

threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.

participation. You didn't want to be Look, many of your colleagues I

participation. You didn't want to be interviewed say that if the choice

was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and

leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in

even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I

got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I

investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.

investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward

the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that

the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to

That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is

particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is

Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

one which is dwindling in comparison dangers of some of the countries

disengage. I will take that as a strengthen the case, and of some

members of the public don't agree persuaded when David delivers his

reforms. The latest poll gives Labour a ten point lead over the

Tories and the reason why it has a ten point lead is because UKIP are

up there with 18% of the vote and ten point lead is because UKIP are

the Tory vote has slumped in the Paul to 27%. How would you see off

UKIP? By saying you need a strong Paul to 27%. How would you see off

and effective Government. We faced terrible problems. Every Government

I have been in has been behind in the polls. This Government is not as

popular as the previous Government I have served in under the three

previous prime ministers. When you get an election, people have to

previous prime ministers. When you themselves who do we want to decide

the issues of war and peace in this country? Who do we want to get us

out of our economic problems. I don't think Ed Miliband is up to it.

That generalised stuff will not don't think Ed Miliband is up to it.

off UKIP. People will not listen to that. When people answer an opinion

poll, they tell you how annoyed that. When people answer an opinion

upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government

I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you

have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern

us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided

going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,

anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the

Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in

disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit

disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from

former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in

the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a

political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is

inviting me back. You have set your Politics. The answer to that is

inviting me back. You have set your career in politics is over so what

happy doing what I am doing, I am passionate about green energy and

climate change, so I am doing things on that front in terms of business

non-governmental organisations, on that front in terms of business

I am doing a column for the Guardian on Mondays. You obviously get a

I am doing a column for the Guardian of material from the Sunday Politics

to write about. Have you embarked on political rehabilitation? It was

clear from the point of view of political rehabilitation? It was

George when I was sentenced, he rehabilitating you, because I had

not offended for ten years, it was actually about stopping people like

you, Andrew, Ron doing the same thing. It was a deterrent effect for

the public. That is I think why thing. It was a deterrent effect for

prosecution was brought. I had not offended for ten years on this,

rehabilitate yourself in the public? coalition to the bitter end? Or

should they re-establish their own Coalition agreement is for the whole

should they re-establish their own Parliament, and the Lib Dems are

going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib

Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib

interesting election because I think you will have essentially three

party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a

battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,

the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't

the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections,

the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind

leadership be in jeopardy? I've could come fourth on fifth behind

in countless cycles where we've could come fourth on fifth behind

very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general

election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in

jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I

think he'll lead the party into at the next general election. I

next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most

people think. If we are heading we'll do much better than most

another hung Parliament, which is have a repeat of the Conservatives?

One of the key things I sawed to colleagues, whatever your personal

preference, I used to be a Labour Party member, you can derive from

that I'm on the left of centre of the party. I always said to my

colleagues in the party, it is the we are in politics because we

are Liberal Democrats, not because we are either Conservatives or

second best Labour. If you don't take that view, you don't have any

bargaining position when it comes to coalition. You have to be able,

genuinely, to do a coalition with either of the other parties. I

understand that, but you'd prefer Labour? Your personal preference

really should not come into this. It is about making sure you get the

best possible deal for the things you get that with one party rather

than another, that's fine. You stand up for Liberal Democrat values,

than another, that's fine. You stand for Conservative or Labour second

best values. You said you're keeping up your interest in energy matters.

Is Ed Miliband right to promise up your interest in energy matters.

temporary price freeze? There's up your interest in energy matters.

pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a sensible policy. It was tried in

California in 2,000 and 2001 which led to blackouts. We had the Prime

Minister promising we should sift everybody automatically to the

lowest possible tariff. So unfortunately we're at

lowest possible tariff. So getting clap trap. You're against

the freeze? It is a bad idea when we are trying to encourage investment.

When the market can give us some of the lowest gas and electricity

prices in Europe. Britain has son-in-law of the lowest? Not our

base price? The other European Ian prices are only higher because they

put a lot more taxes on to it? Our base energy prices are among the

highest in Europe? No, if you look at EU comparisons in what goes out

to people's households. That's after all the taxes have been put on them?

to people's households. That's after . The Conservatives are claiming

there are You are watching the Sunday Politics

for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Coming up. We find out why Euro MPs

are at loggerheads over tougher restrictions on the sale of

cigarettes. In particular these so called Slims cigarettes which some

claim or entity —— specifically at young women.

And we will discover why the government has criticised many

Yorkshire and Lincolnshire Council 's which refused to allow voters to

film their meetings. Let's say hello to our guests, Nigel Adams is a

Conservative MP for Selby, and Kevin Barron is the Labour MP for Rather

Valley. Hello. Nigel Adams, it was called the flat cap reshuffle, David

Cameron said he wanted to make the government less posh and Southern,

has he achieved that? I think so, . I am probably the only Conservative

MP to have a flat cap! I am delighted to see my colleague Chris

Hopkins get promoted, I think you will be a fantastic addition, he is

a straight talker. You had him on your programme a couple of weeks

ago. He is highly respected. In the community 's brief he will bring a

lot of experience. He used to reap —— he used to run Bradford Council.

Esther McVey is another great communicator. It is good news. He is

joining a fellow Bradford bruiser in Eric pickles. What did you make of

the Labour shake—up? We are less than 20 months away from the general

election, it was the right thing to do, he has brought some people in

terms of the Shadow Cabinet who are good people. They make me feel a

very old man looking at them but they are very capable.

and people like that will shape the future of education. Interesting to

see whether those who return to the backbenches will behave themselves,

we would have nothing to talk about if they do! We will talk smoking

now. A war of words has broken out over the latest European proposals

to regulate the tobacco industry. This week Euro MPs voted to ban the

sale of menthol cigarettes and increase the size of health warnings

on packaging. However one Yorkshire MEP who led the European

Parliament's work on the tobacco directive claims that some of her

opponents supported measures to outlaw product is aimed specifically

at young people. Attitudes toward smoking were

completely different when this advert was made in 1978. The imagery

was straight out of a Bond movie. The goals packaging all part of the

marketing of smoking. —— the gold packaging. Following the advertising

ban the only tool to affect marketing with packaging. It is that

which Linda had in her sights. These are important laws which are

designed to stop young people smoking. 570 people start smoking

every day in Britain. So we had a big push against proposals from

lobbyists and unfortunately on one or two issues the Conservative MEPs

did not make the difference. Smokers almost always start the habit in

childhood. So Linda had slim coloured cigarette in her sights.

But on cheese day, MEPs said no to a ban on cigarettes which some say are

affected at teenagers. However with menthol and other flavoured

cigarettes they agreed to a ban, and they said yes to bigger health

warnings on cigarette packets, but only covering 65% of the box, as

opposed to 75% which EU officials wanted. There has been a massive

being by the tobacco industry. —— there has been massive lobbying.

This actually packets 25% of all cigarettes smoked in Britain. Two we

believe it is positive for the packaging sector. We have been able

to put forward smoking concerns into the Bill and regulation, but from a

packaging sector point of view, we are still able to produce complex

packaging which we believe is a deterrent for the counterfeit

market. The watered—down proposals also saw Slimline cigarettes escaped

a ban. So how seductive are they? This packet got a mixed reaction on

the streets of Leeds. The packet looks quite sophisticated, so maybe.

They look a little bit cooler. I do not have smoke is —— I don't smoke

so it has no effect on me. I think it looks more stylish if

smoke, but I don't. What happened in Strasbourg this week is significant.

National covenant have the choice to tighten legislation further. ——

national governments. The government here shelved packaging tightening

this summer so this could be a headache for Cameron.

Did the proposals announced in Strasbourg this week go far enough?

I do not think they did. Public health recommendation said they did

not. The ban on things like menthol and strawberry favoured cigarettes,

I am pleased to say that is coming along. It is over an eight—year

period of time. Standardised, I am very sorry that that did not happen,

standardised packaging. I do not know why we don't have it. It is a

nonsense not to have it. It is up to this government, if they want to do

it. Any UK government can do it, notwithstanding the decision on

Tuesday. Some anti—smoking campaigners have accused Tory MEPs

of watering down the proposals and putting the health of young people

at risk, is that fair? I do not think it is. I can tell you that I

think it was a bit of a model, what came out of Brussels. Slightly

concerning is why they want five years to bring a ban on menthol

cigarettes, why would you wait five years? The other wearily worrying

things is the recommendation that they are —— the other worrying thing

is that they are going to effectively

have done, I will be horrified if my children do, we do all we can to

educate them and make sure they don't. But by banning the ten pack

of cigarettes, we are effectively bringing the entry barrier in at £8

for cigarettes. We could see a problem with the black market in

cigarettes. I would be concerned about that. The ban on packet of ten

cigarettes, that will hurt the poor. Labour always talk about the cost of

living, poor people will be effective. —— effected. Lets get

this in perspective, UK and Italy are the only countries that have

cigarettes in a packet of ten. A lot of the delay is the tobacco

companies. Philip Morris International has spent one point ——

1.5 million euros in the last two years lobbying MEPs. Over 25% of

MEPs have been wined and dined by Philip Morris. All of the time I

have been campaigned against tobacco, for nearly 20 years now, it

has been slow this down, so that down. We have got to recognise that

in this region alone, between 11 years old and 15 years old, 14,000

young people smoke regularly. 100,000 people per year die

prematurely from smoking in the UK, and it is about time we took as much

firm action against this as we These cigarettes, I have seen them

dressed up in all sorts of ways, they attract young people, that is

what they are therefore. The packaging attracts them, the colour

and shape, that is why they do. This looks like a glossy perfume box.

That is clearly aimed at teenage girls. I have no idea what the

marketing strategy is. I have not seen packets like that before

personally. I think the reason people are buying packet of ten, it

is like Great Britain is highly taxed in terms of cigarettes, which

is a good thing. My concern is if this goes through, I know there is

more talking to be done, our own government has to have its two

pennies on this, people will have an entry level of 20 cigarettes so they

could smoke more than they did previously. The government has said

on packaging, it wants to look at the new law that has been brought in

in Australia. Last December, Australia brought in standardised

plain packaging. I have concerns whether that will work. Lynton

Crosby, your election bureau, said he should not bring that in. I think

we should look at this and see how it works and react to that. There is

a lot of lobbying going on in this industry. I have been speaking to

the tobacco industry but I also talked to cancer charities and the

packaging industry. Smokers have been thrown out of pubs and seeing

the price of cigarettes go up, most smokers know it is bad and

expensive, is it time to give them a break and enter the stigmatisation

of smokers? It is not stigmatisation, it is killing

100,000 people per year. That is it, it is the plain packaging, it is not

going to hurt the print industry. This is what it would look like.

This is what we need to be aware of. This is about public health. The ban

on public faces smoking, we will just have a ban in a pub that serve

strength but not food, these are public health measures. That was a

nonsense analysis. If there was anything in this country that was

shortening the lives of people by 100,000 per year, we would be in

Westminster finding the laws con us into how they market these

products and we have to stop it. I do not think we will have too much

longer to wait. Let's see what happens in Australia. I remember

when programmes like this the film in smoke—filled Studios! It is a

little correctness gone mad. That was a joke!

The local government secretary Eric Because once to create a new brand

of citizen journalists covering exciting events in the local horse.

But many councils to not allow filming during the meetings and some

summit people —— forbid people from using mobile phones for tweeting and

plucking. —— blogging. Caught on camera, councillors in the

East Riding arrived for a vote on whether to allow social media into

County Hall. Andrew Allison of the taxpayers Alliance turned up the

heat. We will see how the discussion goes. Excuse me, counsellor, will

you be voting in favour of allowing recording of council meetings? I'm

going to listen to all the arguments. East Riding and Yorkshire

pounce all has a complete ban on members of the public filming or any

form of social media during its council meeting. In the last few

minutes it has voted against proposals to relax those rules. We

live in the last few minutes it has voted against proposals to relax

those rules. Relive the 21st century, we have modern means of

communication. Not everyone can attend a council meeting,

particularly at 2pm on Wednesday. It is important that local people can

record what is going on and get the Quebec going. —— gets the debate

going. The local leader denies there is an appetite for this. It is only

activists, people out there aren't bothered about filming council

meetings. We have an election in 18 months, it has started a pet early.

Eric Pickles has said that members of the public should be allowed to

sell meetings. But many councils are not offering this as an automatic

right. —— to film meetings. According to figures for the

taxpayers allowance, just five councils in Yorkshire and

Lincolnshire have policies granting the right to film meetings. Four

said no, 18 others said they would consider a request. Many more allow

blogging and tweeting but in some cases, permission is still required.

The government says it wants to avoid scenes like this. Footage

taken by a member of the public attending a meeting at Keighley town

Hall in July. Police were called to clear the public gallery after

residents try to film proceedings. We are in the digital age, we need

to allow people to film meetings and blocking the public to doing that is

crazy. We are a democracy, these meeting should be transparent.

Allowing the public to see what is going on from their own home or

their mobile phone is the way to go, it is fit for the modern

century. Some councils like West Lindsey in Lincolnshire film its own

meetings for its website. This council leader believes that is

enough. My main concern is whatever happens in the chamber during

business meetings, they are not disrupted. Everything that goes on

here is open and transparent and communicated via our video system

onto our website. I think that is sufficient for anyone. Then they can

do it and view it whenever they want. The government however is

losing patients with those councils are catching up the social media

juggernaut. Do you think there is an appetite to

film local council week there was an important tanning

meeting in Selby to do with the travellers site, a lot of interest

from a local village. There was a limited number of seats. I was in

London, it would have been interesting for me to see it. So you

are criticising your own conservative run authority? I am, as

sure —— I am sure it would not cost that much money, you can get filming

cheaply online. It would have been useful for those people out of the

room to be able to see those meetings. The idea of treating all

the time, it leaves a little bit to be desired, I do not do it myself.

Transparency is important. Everywhere we say in Parliament is

filmed and I do not think it is a good thing for —— I don't think it

is bad for councils to film their meetings. Do you think that we have

been left behind by the digital age? It moves on quicker than we can

legislate in lots of areas. I think it is simple, congratulations to

that counsel who film that. They are opening up their meetings to people

who may want to meet —— see them, it might be about a planning matter or

just general expenditure inside the council area where you live. It

seems like that is a sensible thing to do. If you look at the cost of

these things, for a council to board cost these days, it is not a great

deal of money. People can't get to council meetings during the week.

That is why it is a good idea, the intellect connectivity is there a

council building. The idea that someone will be trawling the

Internet watching everything that is said at Rotherham district Council,

perhaps they should get out a bit more! But when it is an important

meeting, it is important they should have access. When you look at your

place, the House of Commons, it is not very friendly to the public. You

have got a big Perspex screen up. If you get your mobile phone out to get

arrested. Shouldn't the House of Commons take the lead here? We are

televised, everything that we do, I have spoken a couple of times this

week, and that is televised. The screen is because of the donations

that people have made into the chamber, like the purple powder on

Tony Blair, and some horse muck. This is about using the new media

and showing people how their tax money is being spent, there is

nothing wrong with that at all. The chamber has moved on, the Speaker

has allowed people to use electronic devices

have seen it. I am still suspicious on what they are looking at

sometimes! David Cameron visited York and

Halifax to tell us the Yorkshire economy has turned a corner. The

Prime Minister said more private—sector jobs have been

created here than anywhere else outside of London. Labour said

families still face a cost of living crisis. There are 110,000 more

private—sector jobs today than there were in 2010. That is good news, we

are heading in the right direction. I think families shaking a cost of

living crisis will be shaking their heads at the trimester saying

everything is OK. Labour MPs held a protest outside Parliament, claiming

Hull is getting less money than other parts of the country. And a

great tale this week in the politician's battle to be top dog.

Dewsbury MP Simon Riegel and his fox terrier Harry won silver at this

year's Westminster dog of the accommodation. —— dog of the year

competition. Maybe he would have won if it was

proportional representation! Kevin Barron, David Cameron 20 Yorkshire

and said 110 thousand new public sector jobs had been created in

be a good thing is? Private—sector jobs, sorry! Of course it is good

but we have still got major problems. Wages and salaries have

been reduced by 8.1% in Yorkshire and Humberside overall role in the

last few years. There is a crisis here. The first time ever in my

working life, that people are working for less than they were the

year before. That is a crisis for people at work, never mind those

poor devils who can't get work. Labour respond with this cost of

living crisis campaign they have got, that will resonate with many of

your constituents? Of course we have, we have discovered that the

biggest recession since the last world war. Getting back to the

package, with David Cameron, the idea that there is some complacency

in government is a nonsense. We are nowhere near where we need to be.

The economy is recovering and we are turning the corner. In my own patch,

in Selby, I am delighted that since the last election, unemployment is

down now by almost 30%. We are going in the right direction, we have got

more jobs in the economy than there has ever been. The idea that we have

become complacent is quite insulting. We know there is a long

way to go. Do you accept that the economy is heading in the right

direction in this part of the world? Two it is difficult to say that, I

was chatting to someone about house prices this morning. We keep saying

we are going to get Apple, there is good to be a problem, if you look at

the papers, new price new price all the time, that means lower prices.

We have got a long way to go in this part of the country. I know we have

got to all go off and film your local council planning permissions

on your mobile phone! Thank you both for your time

on your mobile phone! Thank you both That is all we have time for. Back

ministerial team this week with That is all we have time for. Back

commentators calling it the purge of the Blairites, but one poor lamb who

fell victim to this perch was Diane Abbott, not somebody who worshipped

at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on the backbenches means she can pursue

other interests such as attending the Cheltenham literary Festival,

and where she joins us now. Welcome. Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

think the thing that did it for Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

was me coming out on Syria. This was Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

a purge of the Blairites, how did you become collateral damage? I

a purge of the Blairites, how did no idea but the fact that I was

a purge of the Blairites, how did one member of the front bench to go

public about my concerns on Syria party machinery over the edge.

public about my concerns on Syria he went your way on Syria, in the

end he agreed with your line on Syria so why would that be for

dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke

dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,

which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,

forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like

people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I

think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People

increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People

I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr

Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his

best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour

Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour

will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be

loyal? However, I want to join in loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal

loyal? However, I want to join in in public and private when others

were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to

were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly

around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy

with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,

with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are

very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The

issue of free schools, they are to see how this all plays out. The

thing. But diminishing the role to see how this all plays out. The

local authorities is another. There need strong local authorities. I'm

local authorities is another. There sure Tristram will be aware of that.

As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories

have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms

of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would

you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would

haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and

see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the

papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for

Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor

Mayor of London? I have no plans to Michael his I will Tyne used to

Mayor of London? I have no plans to same kind of plans you have? I know.

No, no. I have no plans. You know going for it. Everybody knows you're

going for it. Just fess up to your old mate! ! I have no plans to run.

If you did run, who would be, what would be your biggest threat other

than yourself? I think there's a lot of very talented candidates, David

They are all talented. I would have to weigh up the field. What do you

think your chances would be of getting the taxi drivers' vote?

Well, you know, Andrew, some of getting the taxi drivers' vote?

most loyal viewers of This Week getting the taxi drivers' vote?

were taxi drivers and their wives. I'm not frightened of reaching out

to middle England. You will find if you walk around London sub usual ya,

they all know me and they all love This Week. Love This Week. I thought

you were going to say they all love you. One person who loves you, is

Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy chappie on Thursday night. You can't

see it but you can hear. This is what he said. I was disappointed for

something else in politics. She wanted to do something serious.

something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a

something else in politics. She position but taken it extremely

serious and was committed to the issues. I'm quite disappointed for

her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a thing. You just mentioned about

London mayor, did Diane not ask thing. You just mentioned about

Someone who's an eminent person thing. You just mentioned about

this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's

missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy

man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.

So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.

We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,

you're not insured for. That thanks Does she have a chance of being

Mayor of London? She's very well known as Michael pointed out. That

is important. People who are outside known as Michael pointed out. That

the party fold have traditionally done well in the mayoral election.

The job of being a London mayor done well in the mayoral election.

running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.

There may be problems with her running? That was a transparent

There may be problems with her compelling Coll ticks. People have

left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said

he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What

do you think? I thing about Diane Abbott is she has a fantastic way of

connecting. She has a really good way of connecting wi people. She

would be a very strong candidate in candidate. It will probably be a

Labour win next time. Depends, if Labour wins the 2015 election it may

be more difficult. There's a danger for Labour that Diane is the big

personality liked by the party primary but isn't necessarily a

personality liked by the party in come the London general election?

That's true. London is traditionally a Labour city. But Boris managed to

win as an outsider. There are big dangers for Labour with that. I

think, as I said before, somebody who seems a bit independent from

their own party machinery tend to do We've only had mayors so far that

were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. stray on Syria, it was immigration.

Why was Jeremy brown replaced by This is very much to do with Clegg

deciding he has to go back to those people who abandoned the Liberal

Democrats the day they went into coalition with the Conservatives

really, and convince them there coalition with the Conservatives

some holy areas of policy, sacred areas which they will defend. That

includes civil liberties. In the Home Office, that incident with

includes civil liberties. In the immigration vans went down very

badly across the whole nation. Went down particularly badly with Liberal

Democrats and voters. In the Home somebody there to put a shield on

purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg has won the argument against the

left, Vince Cable on the economy, away day in July, briefings say

DrCable's been put in his box. He's won the argument on economic policy

against the left. When it comes won the argument on economic policy

the touchstone issue in the Home Office, he wants to shore up that

vote on the left. And please The Guardian. This is important for

something else going on which is that Nick Clegg has to keep his

jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats involves giving them ministerial

jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats because vacancies have to be created

for number people to come in. By Liberal Democrat MPs will have been

on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on

to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the

parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the

will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We

moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord

Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state

involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media

interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier

he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed

Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I

think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that

Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is

Maria Miller, is essentially saying was they would not sign up. It is

Maria Miller, is essentially saying ahead. I cannot control the Labour

Maria Miller, is essentially saying industry is wind the clock back

Maria Miller, is essentially saying what they are calling the Puttnam

stage. That was earlier this year, Lord Puttnam was tack amendments

which would introduce statutory regulation. Maria Miller says you

statutory legislation but if you don't sign up to this, it will be a

lot worse. Will that work? Playing the good cop, bad cop routine? Will

that pressurise everyone to sign up. Lots of people are saying this will

be a club with no members. It won't work. As Nick and I broke the story

last week that the Government was going to reject the newspaper-backed

one, I'm certain that the newspapers now, most of them maybe, not all,

but most, will go the legal route and to judicial review on what the

Government's proposing and will and to judicial review on what the

it to strains Bowring where freedom of the press is enshrined. They

it to strains Bowring where freedom fight this? There is enough fury

amongst Fleet Street to result in that. The big political question

going forward is which of the party leaders does the press blame the

most for the emergence of press regulation? The Tories are very

the most. They'll target him before regulation? The Tories are very

2015. David Cameron gave us Brian Leveson. You appoint a judge who

shouldn't be surprised with what you got in the Leveson report? I big

chunk of press will look at David Cameron saying, you were the guy who

intended what will happen. If he had have appointed Brian Leveson. If

they face more punitive fines over Labour ale cases they take that

they face more punitive fines over Europe. The Daily Mail and the

tallest presumably will have to suspend their campaign of Britain to

leave the European Convention of suspend that. We must never come out

Churchill was behind it. He was indeed. But it is actually a major

constitutional issue whether you regulate the press or not. There was

constitutional issue whether you a lot of ill feeling that this Marie

ya miller statement was snubbing out on Friday afternoon. Somebody said

freedom of the press too important to sneak out on afully afternoon.

The whole subject should be treated with respect. We've run out of time.

I'll be back next Sunday with the Communities Secretary Eric Pickles

at our usual time of 11.00am. If