23/03/2014 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The dust has barely

settled on George Osborne's Budget and, amazingly, for once it hasn't

all gone horribly wrong by the weekend. So, is this the election

springboard the Tories needed, and where does it leave Labour? Turns

out the big Budget surprise was a revolution in how we pay for old

age. The Pensions Minister says he's relaxed if you want to spend it all

on a Lamborghini. He'll join us later. And could the man with the

maracas be on his way to Westminster? Bez from the Happy

Coming up, educating Yorkshire. Why plan

Coming up, educating Yorkshire. Why the head of the school made famous

on TV has work better? -- Uxbridge. And who

better to help guide you through all of that than three journalists, who

dispense wisdom faster than Grant Shapps calls out the numbers in his

local bingo hall over a pint of beer. Yes, they're hard-working and

they're doing the things they enjoy. Cup of tea, number three. It's Nick

Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh.

So, George Osborne delivered his fifth Budget on Wednesday and had so

many glowing front pages the day afterwards he must be running out of

room to pin them up in on his bedroom wall. Although it's probably

a pretty big wall. For those of you who didn't have time to watch 3.5

hours of Budget coverage on the BBC, here's Giles with the whole thing in

three minutes. Budget days have a rhythm of their

own, driven partly by tradition, like that photocall at 11 Downing

Street and part logistics, how to get this important statement out and

explain to those whom it affects - us? Behind-the-scenes of a Budget

Day is much the same. This ritual red boxery may be the beginning of

the end of weeks of work behind the scenes in the Treasury and sets the

clock ticking on the process of finding out the answer to one

question. You got any rabbits in the box, Chancellor? Yes, there will be

something in the Budget we don't know about. Time marches steadily

towards the statement and already commentators are hovering over what

those potential surprises are. As Big Ben chimes, all focus returns to

the Commons, where there is Prime Minister's questions and the

Chancellor gets up and does his thing. Once he's on his feet and

remembering there is still no copy of the details, the major measures

are rapidly highlighted as they come and then put up on screen. A cap on

Government welfare spending set for 2015/16 at 119 billion. Income tax

personal allowance raised to ?10,500. Bingo duty halved, which

ticked boxes for some but was unlikely to make anyone a poster

boy. And the beer tax cut of 1p, or the froth on the top. And changes to

pensions allowing people to take their money out in one lump sum,

rather than being forced to accept a fixed annual pay-out, or annuity.

This is a Budget for the makers, the doers and the savers and I commend

it to the House. Not everyone can focus on the Budget by listening to

what the Chancellor says. We need to get a copy of the script. We do not

get that till he sits down. I'm going to go into the House of

Commons to get that right now. There will be a response on that and all

the other things from Mr Miliband. The Chancellor spoke for nearly an

hour but he did not mention one essential fact, the working people

of Britain are worse off under the Tories. It is a tricky job answering

the Budget at the best of times, though some, including Labour MPs,

think it is better to mention the Budget when you do.

Here we are. I am going to go. I am not the only journalist missing Ed

Miliband's speech. Many others leave the Chamber as the Chancellor sits

down to attend a special briefing from the Chancellor's advisory team.

I am hotfoot to the studio. There is a little more detail to the Budget

than the Budget Speech. That detail can be whether words unravel and

other interpretations emerge. By now the gaggle of supporters and

detractors are taking the debate onto the airwaves. Are you the BBC?

Have the Daily Politics packed up? No, we're still standing and, days

later, still trying to assess whether the measures announced still

seem fresh and appetising or have already gone stale in the minds of

voters? How significant are these two poles

this morning putting Labour and Tory nip and tuck? Osborne gave his party

a good bounce. It was an astonishingly theatrical coup. At

first glance, it seems like a huge gift to all people. That is where

all of the money has been channelled by this government. They have been

ultra-protected, triple locked. Pensioners have done very well and

others less well. It is not surprising. Normally a budget which

is well received on the day and the day after has unravelled by the

weekend. This time, it has not, so far. The dangerous thing for the

Labour Party now, George Osborne is the assessment this thing called the

baseline. He says, in government, you must control the baseline. The

Labour party controlled in 2001 and 2005 and he needs to control it next

time. He is controlling it on fiscal policy because labour is matching

them on everything. The danger for Labour on the big, headline grabbing

issue, which was freeing up annuities on pensions, that again

Labour was pretty much saying it was going to support it though it were

saying it has to be fair and cost-effective. On a big, policy

issue, they are following on behind George Osborne. George Osborne is

controlling the crucial baseline. Are we in danger of reading too much

into the political implications of the budget? The good thing about the

pensions policy is, if it does unravel, it will not happen for ten

years and, by that time, George Osborne will have left office.

Towards the end of his speech, I thought, that is not enough. There

is not an idea in your budget which is politically very vivid a year

before an election. What I underestimated was, how many

frustrated savers that are in the country. There are a lot of people

who are frustrated by low interest rates and tax rates on pension pots.

This was an explicit gesture for them. That is what has paid off in

the polls in the past few days. You spend all of your money on your

wardrobe, is that right? The bingo poster was a kind of get out of jail

card for Labour. It gave them something to zoom in on. Everyone

beat up on Grant Shapps, the Tory chairman. We read in the daily

Telegraph that the fingerprints of the Chancellor were all over this

poster. The Chancellor signed off it -- off on it and so did Lynton

Crosby. They referred to working class people as, they are. How did

it get into the Telegraph? We can only presume but grant Shapps made

it clear that it was not him. We had a time when Labour politicians, we

saw from the response of Ed Miliband onwards, they were not quite sure

how to react to this budget. A lot of detail had to be absorbed.

Suddenly, here is something we can talk about. You can see the thinking

behind the poster was very sensible. We are not Tory toffs, we are

interested in helping people who do not come from our backgrounds. The

wording was awful and played into every cliche. It was all his fault.

It shows how unsophisticated he was. There were people from Tory HQ

who agreed the budget. A month down the line will the budget look as

good? Probably. Once people look at it, pensions are fiendishly

conjugated. Once they look and see what it will do with people having

to pay for their own care because they can now take capital at their

pension, that will come as a shock to a lot of people with small

savings. It all be gone on their care. The polling will be neck and

neck all the way. In the past, George Osborne has been accused of

using his Budgets to tinker at the margins or pull cheap tricks on his

political opponents. Perish the thought. But the big surprise in

this year's statement was a genuinely radical shake-up of the

pensions system that will affect most people who've yet to retire. At

the moment, everyone is saving money into a defined contribution pension,

that is the type most common in the private sector. They can take 25% of

the pot is a tax-free lump sum when they retire. The rest of the money,

for most people, they are forced to buy an annuity, a form of insurance

which provide a guaranteed monthly income until they die. Annuities

have hardly been a bargain since interest rates were flat slashed

following the financial crash. Even with a ?100,000 pension pot would

only get an income of ?5,800 a year at current rates. From 2018,

pensioners will not be forced to buy an annuity. They can do what they

like with their money, even taking the entire pot as a lump some but

paying tax on 75% of it. With an average pension pot closer

to around ?30,000, pensioners would be more likely to buy a Skoda

instead of a Lamborghini. Most newly retired people who take the cash are

more likely to spend the money paying off their mortgage, helping a

family member to buy a property or investing the money elsewhere. Well,

earlier I spoke to the Pensions Minister. He's a Lib Dem called

Steve Webb. I began by asking him if he still thought the reforms might

lead to pensioners splurging all their savings on supercars. What

this reform is about is treating people as adults. For far too long,

we have said, we will make sure you save for your old age and then we

will control each year how much is spent on what you spend it on. What

we are saying is because we have formed -- reformed the state

pension, we will be much more relaxed about what people do with

their own money. The evidence is that people who have been frugal and

saved hard for retirement do not generally blows a lot. They will

spin it out. It is treating people as adults and giving them choices

they should have had all along. It is a red herring, isn't it? The

average pension pot is between 25000 and 30,000. Lamborghinis aren't an

option, correct? I gather only about 5000 people a year retiring can buy

a flashy Italian sports car. It might be about paying off a

mortgage, paying off outstanding debts. Maybe spending more money

earlier in retirement when they are fit and able and can enjoy it more.

We will give people guidance. We will make sure when they retire,

there is someone to have a conversation with talking through

the implications of spending the money early and options of investing

it. This will be a real step forward. Even if you have a much

bigger pension pot, say half ?1 million, which is way bigger than

the average, even then the marginal rates of tax will be a disincentive

to take it all out at once. You will lose huge chunks of it at the 40%

band and then the 45% band. The tax system gives you the incentive to

spread it out if the tax threshold is a bit over 10000 and the state

pension is a bit over 7000, the first 3000 you draw out in a given

year is tax-free. The next band is at 20%. Spreading your money will

mean you pay less tax. That is why, in general, people will not blow the

lot up front. They will spread it out over their retirement. You have

kept this policy quiet. Not even a hint. How did you test it? How did

you make sure it would be robust? You did not do a consultation. I

have been talking about freeing up the annuity market for a decade. The

idea of giving people more choice. The government has relaxed rules

over this Parliament. It was not a completely new idea. We know in

places like Australia and America, people have these freedoms. We

already have something to judge it by. We will spend the next year

talking to people, working it through. There will be a three-month

consultation. I want people to have choices about their own money. There

is detail still to be worked out and we are in listening mode about how

we implement it. When you announce something you cannot do widespread

consultation, for the reasons I have given, you do run the risk of

unforeseen consequences? Pension companies this morning are

indicating, you, the government can write you are looking for ?25

billion of infrastructure investment from us. You hold our shell below

the water line. That may not happen. We spoke internally about the

implications for instruction -- infrastructure. It seems to me there

will still be long-term investments. Many people want to turn their whole

pot into an income. I understand the insurance companies are lobbying,

but I'm convinced there will still be plenty of money for investment

and infrastructure. If the Chancellor's pro-savings measures

work, that will generate more savings. With no requirement now to

buy an annuity, surely it is the case that pension pots are another

ordinary savings fund, so why should they continue to get favourable tax

treatment? Bear in mind that a lot of the tax treatment of pensioners

is tax deferred so most people pay tax at the standard rate. If they

put money into a pension, they don't pay tax when they earn it, but they

do at retirement. We do want, we will still have automatic enrolment

into workplace pensions, we do want people to build up, because at age

20 and 30 nobody thinks about retirement. It is still vital that

people do reach retirement to have these new choices with a decent

sized pension pot. Pensions. Tax breaks because they were supposed to

provide an income in retirement, that is how it was structured, but

that is no longer a requirement, surely that undermines the case that

if they get tax breaks, other forms of savings should get tax breaks.

Other forms do get tax breaks, of course. The return with ISAs is tax

free. The point with pensions is that you are simply deferring your

earnings. There is a bit when high tax rate payers get a kick when they

are working and then retire on standard rate, so there is the issue

of the top getting too many tax breaks, but the basic principle that

you pay tax when you get the income seems right to me and isn't affected

by these changes. You have announced save friendly measures, are we right

to look at them as a consolation prize because savers have suffered

from the Government's policy of keeping interest rates abnormally

low? It is certainly the case that very low interest rates have been a

huge boon to people of working age with mortgages, and people who have

retired said they thought they could have got a better deal on their

savings. I think there is a recognition that whilst we have done

the right thing with pensioners on the state pension, we have brought

in the triple lock, and many will bent on -- benefit from these

changes. Why don't savers who are not pensioners get the same help?

They have been hit by low interest rates as well. Those of working

age, many of them say they have benefited from low interest rates

was predominantly people in retirement have not had the benefit.

Obviously people of working age will have benefited from the tax

allowance so it is a myth to say the Budget was all about pensioners. And

yet even when the Office for Budget Responsibility takes into account

your new measures, it still shows that over the next five years

households will save less and less, indeed the savings ratio falls by

50%. You haven't done enough. One of the things we know is that the

economy is picking up strongly, and as we have more confidence about the

future they will be more willing to consume now, so without these

measures it may be that the saving rate would have fallen further. We

want people to save and spend, it is about getting the right balance. As

the economy picks up, people will want to spend more of their money

and it is about getting the balance right. You make the point that if

people are little profligate with their private pensions, they will

have the state pension to fall back on and it will be higher than it has

been, but it is also the case that in these circumstances they will

still be entitled to housing benefit and even to perhaps some council tax

benefit as well. Do you know by how much this could put the welfare bill

up? We think the impact will be relatively modest because the sort

of people who save for a pension and make sacrifices while they are at

work are not the sort of people who get to 65 and decide to blow the lot

for the great privilege of receiving council tax benefit or housing

benefit. There will be people on the margins and

benefit. There will be people on the who retire with some capital want to

put some money away for their funeral. People like to save even

into retirement so the myth of the spendthrift pensioner I don't

believe. I think this has been rightly welcomed. Ever fancied a

Lamborghini yourself? If you turned the camera around you would see my

2-door Corsa! What's your favourite thing about an

election? Could it be the candidates ringing on your door while you're

having dinner? The leaflets piling up on your doormat? Or the endless

adverts aimed at hardworking families? Well, if you thought that

was bad enough, then you might want to consider going overseas for the

2015 election because the parties are going to be aiming their message

at you like never before. Adam's been to Worcester to find out more.

One of the most famous political figures in history lived here, she

is called Worcester woman. She was in her 30s, working class with a

couple of kids, aspirational yet worried about quality of life. But

she wasn't a real person, she was a label for the kind of voter new

Labour were trying to reach and she was later joined by Mondeo man and

several others. Doesn't that all seem a bit 90s? The technique,

called segmentation, was used by George Bush in 2004. Then refined by

Barack Obama. Rather than focusing on crude measures like cars and

hometowns, they delved into the minds of voters. It is not just

women, not just people who live in cities, but if you start to put

together these groups of people you can even in an anecdote or way

imagine who they are, what types of language and imagery might relate to

them. We have been given access to a new polling model being used here by

this firm, which is pretty close to the one we are told is being used by

the Tories. It carves the country into six personality types, and we

are trying it out on Worcester woman and wast of man. We are using an

online quiz to work out who is in which segment. Meet new monk,

Susie. She feels well represented. I know the Budget and the increases to

childcare, I think at the moment I am fairly represented. This puts her

in the category of optimistic contentment, people who feel they

are doing OK. Terry, on the other hand, isn't happy about Britain

today. Health and safety and all that! I hardly recognise the country

a living in any more? Yes. Are you ready for the result? He is Mr

comfortable nostalgia, they tend to favour the Tories and UKIP. They

dislike the cultural changes they see as altering Britain for the

worst. That sums me up. Tony is worried as well but feels much less

secure. I look forward to the future with optimism or anxiety? Anxiety.

Optimist or pessimist? Pessimist. His category is... You feel a bit

insecure, you think the Government could probably help you more? Yes.

Labour picks up a lot of these voters. This man is being asked to

do more and more at work, but he is getting less and less. I am getting

more towards the despair side. Things are getting tougher,

generally? It puts him into the segment called long-term despair,

people who feel left out. Finally, this is ever thoughtful Carol. I am

a bit of an idealist. Her idealism makes her a cosmopolitan critic. I

am a liberal person. Apparently a lot of the media fit into this

category as well. There is one group of voters we have not come across,

people who show calm persistence. They hope things will get better but

don't expect them to. They are coping, rather than comfortable.

Presumably they are all out of work. Which group are you win? You can

take the poll on the BBC website, and in the coming weeks we will be

doing our own polling using the six segments to see of the politicians

really have worked out how we think. And as Adam said, if you want to try

the survey for yourself, you can go to the BBC website and click on the

link. And we're joined now by the

pollster, Rick Nye. Welcome to Sunday Politics. We have had

Worcester woman, Worcester man, is this any different? It is a

recognition that or politician -- all politics these days is like

this. It enables them to cut them more finally. You think all politics

is coalition politics, you think they have to put together these

groups of people, not that the Lib Dems will always be in power? No,

and if you listen to the coverage these days you might think it is

about grumpy old men on the one hand with Guardian readers on the other.

It is far more complicated than that, there is a lot of churning

going on underneath which is driven by people's value systems. A lot of

this has been pioneered in the United States, very sophisticated on

their election techniques, and in Britain we are always the first to

grab whatever the New Year will is from America. How do you think this

will translate to this country? I think it means that if you are

target photo you will still get the same of leaflets and people calling,

but you will probably have different kinds of conversations because

people on the other side, the party campaigners, will think they know

more about you. Will I know who you are? If I am a party campaigner,

will I know, looking down the street, who fits into which

category? You will be able to approximate that with all of the

other data that you have gathered through polling, or doing local

campaigning, that is the idea to make sense of this vast quantity of

data people have about voters. We asked our panel to fill in your

survey. Nick is optimistic contentment, 99%. He was 1%

cosmopolitan critic, which is how he keeps his job at the Guardian.

Polly's job could not be more secure, 100% cosmopolitan critics,

and Janan Ganesh, optimistic contentment, which is what you would

expect from a financial Times columnist. What do you make of this

technique? Why are you only 99? It sounds really clever. 95% of the

population five years ago voted Labour or the Conservatives. We have

got away from that. It is coalition politics. You need sophisticated

methods. Presumably you must not lose touch with basic points. You

said it was used in the US presidential elections. Wasn't there

them moment emit Romney 's sweet when the initial response was, we

did not know the sort of people voted. His next response was, we did

not know these people existed. Unless you know about certain key

demographics, you are wasting your time. Is it important in modern

campaigning? I think it is useful because it is about attitude. We

have got Mosaic. We have got Acorn. It does not tell us very much. What

people think and feel may be different to their income. You can

be quite a high earner and anxious. You can be quite a low earner and

feeling aspirational and optimistic about the future. I think this does

get something else. In days gone by, particularly in America,

overwhelmingly, if you are in the better of segment, you would be

Republican and the blue-collar workers and some academics and

Liberals voted Democrat. In the last election, the richest 200 counties

in America voted Democrat. That is an attitude thing. Income does not

tell you how people will vote. There is a huge, working-class base of

support for the Republicans. It is unavoidable. Add a time when people

no longer identify with ideologies or class blocks, you have to go the

temperament and lifestyle and manageable. In America there were

128 segments according to lifestyle and Outlook. Once you get to that

stage, it becomes close to useless. We were talking about the budget

earlier. What other polls saying about the budget? The lead of labour

has been narrowed over the Conservatives. -- Labour. Osborne

and Cameron as an academic team have always had a lead over Miller band

and Balls. This week it is about economic management. -- over Mr

Miller band. The Coming up, educating Yorkshire.

Why this head teacher made famous on TV has some stinging criticism for

the school's watchdog. There is a culture of fear building up. I feel

the pressure of thinking are they going to knock on the door? And why

some of our hospitals are facing huge fines for keeping patients

waiting in ambulances outside A departments.

They had of the school made famous in programme macro has hit back at

claims that the county's schools suffer from a poverty of aspiration.

It follows a report by Ofsted which suggests that as a region schools in

Yorkshire and the Humber are the worst performing in the country. In

a moment, we will be putting Jonny Mitchell's comments to Ofsted's

regional director. First, this report.

A practical, enthusiastic and enjoyable lesson in business and

economics for these teenagers. And taking a look at how it was going,

Tristram Hunt, the Shadow Education Secretary. They are used to

high`profile visitors and television cameras here. The school is the

school near Dewsbury which hit the headlines because of this. I am a

new headteacher. My values are very traditional. Led by charismatic head

teacher Jonny Mitchell, the staff and students here became the stars

of Channel 4's Educating Yorkshire series. It highlighted the

challenges faced by schools in some of our less affluent areas. The

visit by Labour's education spokesman this week was a chance for

Jonny Mitchell to outline what he sees as a major barrier to getting

on with the job of teaching. I am not actually all that interested in

the pieces of the paper at the end. League tables, Government

information and especially the role of the school's inspectorate Ofsted,

he says, are not helping. `` government in intervention. There is

a culture of fear building up among the teaching profession with the

very short notice of an Ofsted inspection. They are coming in and

lessons are observed and sometimes a teacher will be able to teach a

lesson which on the face of it is very good indeed, maybe even

outstanding, yet their outcomes over time would suggest the teaching

cannot be any better than good or maybe only requires improvement.

When we come to Ofsted, what we need is quality inspectors doing a really

detailed understanding of the school, not just relying on previous

data, but getting a sense of what the school is about. Ofsted has a

role to play. It informs parents about what is going on in schools.

What we do not want is a politicised Ofsted. 24 hours after this visit,

things started moving. A survey of 900 headteachers conducted by the

Association of Schools and College Leaders showed that 65% of them had

no confidence in the outcome of Ofsted inspections. Almost

simultaneously, the head of Ofsted announced he was looking at hiring

more experienced inspectors and having what he called lighter touch

inspections. 60 miles away in Hull, these teenagers say Ofsted is

putting a cloud over their education, especially with the

latest annual report putting Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire at

the bottom of the pile. You don't want to be told you can't do

something when there is a good chance you could do it. I would like

to go to university. I don't which one yet. I would like to study

Chinese and business at university. When we are coming out with As and

Bs, A*s, people are very shocked. If anything, it makes us more

determined to succeed to prove to the rest of the country and everyone

else that it is possible for us to get good grades. Their school here

in East Hull has bucked the trend. Not just for the naturally bright

ambitious students either. One in six used to leave here with no

qualifications. There are now hardly any. These are some of the many

places we take our young people to help bring the curriculum alive to

them and help inspire them. The headteacher says those improvements

have been helped by teaching initiatives that Ofsted inspectors

do not even measure. What we try and do is make sure that each and every

young person here, whilst working hard at the basics, English, maths,

science and so on, they are learning that the curriculum is tailored to

them as much as possible so they can see the relevance of it. Youngsters

in state schools in some of our poorest areas prove success can be

achieved. The question is, will the planned changes to the way

inspections and measurement of progress are made help or hinder the

process? Our guest today on Julian Sturdy, a

Conservative MP, Linda Riordan, Labour MP for Halifax. And joining

us for our top story, the regional director for Ofsted. If I could

start with you, Nick, what did you mean when you said Yorkshire's

schools are suffering from a poverty of aspiration? What I meant was head

teachers, like the two we have just seen in the piece they have very

high aspirations for the students in their schools. It shows through in

what those two schools are achieving. What we need is every

single school in Yorkshire and Humber to have the same level of

aspiration. Julian Sturdy, do you recognise that phrase, poverty of

aspiration? It is important we have aspiration flowing from our

schools. My patch in York, we have really good schools. It is very

important that you allow children from all backgrounds the opportunity

to excel and do well at school. That is what we need to achieve. Linda

Riordan, do you think teachers in your part of the world have

confidence in Ofsted? 80% of our schools are classed as good or

outstanding. I do not see that as a poverty of aspirations. The teachers

and head teachers are fantastic and they want their pupils to achieve.

They have done a really good job. We had the school branded the worst in

the country. The council took the school on board and brought the

standards up starting at primary school levels and not getting to

that situation. I think teachers are doing a fantastic job and they want

their pupils to achieve. I am not very keen on that sort of language.

Nick, how do you respond to Jonny Mitchell, the programme macro

headteacher when he says that your organisation Ofsted is creating a

climate of fear a smart `` the educating Yorkshire headteacher. And

inspection is a stressful time. But I also think most headteachers and

governing bodies and politicians would say that parents deserve a

right to know about the quality of the schools they might send their

children to. Yes, there is stress. But it is absolutely necessary we

hold schools to account. A survey showed 65% of headteachers did not

have confidence in Ofsted to make accurate and reliable judgements.

How do you respond to that? If you look at satisfaction surveys

following Ofsted inspections, at the end of the stressful event,

actually, our data shows that most headteachers are very satisfied with

the experience of being inspected. Do you think Ofsted as a body is

still fit for purpose? Yes. It is very important parents have the

information available. So they can make decisions. That is the first

point. The second point is when I go round my constituency talking to

headteachers, you do find there is the concern over, as has been

reported, how Ofsted Carrie at `` carry out their work. When that is

the case, are they getting the true picture of what is happening in the

school? That is why I do accept that in certain areas there should be a

lighter touch approach. Linda Riordan, why do you think so many

headteachers do not have confidence in Ofsted? I think there is so much

pressure put on them for that amount of time that Ofsted are in the

school with very little warning. Teachers are not just educating,

they have all sorts to do and they are doing a really good job. The

head of Ofsted said on Friday about lighter touch regulation. What does

it mean for schools who are not performing well? For schools that

are not yet good, it would be inspections very much as they are

now. It is important to us that schools not yet good should actually

be inspected thoroughly by a highly qualified inspection team which

increasingly have practitioners, headteachers, as part of the

inspection team. We have more and more headteachers who are part of

the inspection process and we want to increase that number. It is

really important headteachers have confidence in the system, as has

been acknowledged or the other guests. Didn't be so recent show

there are so many areas in a school which cannot be measured by the

league tables? Getting kids to school on time, wearing the proper

uniform, good discipline. Doesn't Jonny Mitchell have a point when he

says what Ofsted are portraying is not always a true picture of many

schools in poorer areas? Parents want to know what a school can

actually do for their child. If they send their child to that school, are

they going to get a high quality of education? Are they going to get the

qualifications which will enable them to progress further in life?

Yes, absolutely, there are aspects of the school we do not measure as

Ofsted. That I think we measure the things parents regard as being

absolutely vital. Thank you for joining us.

We we warned our accident and emergency departments were facing

the worst winter crisis in living memory.

So, has that proved to be the case? Our health correspondents have been

taking a close look at the figures for hospitals at opposite ends of

our patch. In a moment, we'll hear from Vicky Johnson in Hull. But

first, Jamie Coulson reports from Halifax.

What did you do to your face question mark last November is

for`year`old cut her head open when she fell. She was taken to A but

her mother feels she has to wait too long to be seen. It was devastating

to see her like that for so long. NHS targets mean 95% of patients

should be seen within four hours. Latest figures show the hospital

trust responsible for the A departments in Huddersfield and

Halifax has struggled over the winter. Between the 10th of November

last year and the 9th of March this year, Calderdale Royal Hospital and

Huddersfield Royal infirmary sort 46,000 patients in A 2000 had to

wait over four hours. They missed the target on seven out of the 18

weeks. 738 patients had to wait between four and 12 hours on a

trolley for a bird. These figures have been seized upon by campaigners

concerned about a wider shake`up of health services proposed in this

part of the world. In one scenario, the A in Halifax could be scaled

back. Emergency cases would have to go to Huddersfield. People are

having to wait too long. Some people are waiting on trolleys, in the

backs of ambulances. We are struggling to cope with two A

departments. Imagine if we only had one. The two hospitals are five

miles apart. Both currently offer full A departments. But it could

change under plans to centralise services on one side. The trust's

preferred option would see all emergency and conflict move to

Huddersfield. Calderdale would concentrate on planned and routine

care. I would rather be here than Huddersfield. It is travelling for

people visiting. I can see the point that it will be better. Is that not

what everyone wants? You want it where it is convenient. The local

NHS said that other options are being considered but the aim is to

try and improve services not cut them. We are looking at changing the

way services are provided. A is a small part of that. If we get the

system right, people will visit hospital less, people will not need

to go to the A department. People will have services closer to home.

We will make sure it is easy for them to access them. For families

relying on hospital services, these developments will be watched keenly.

The local NHS stressed no decisions have yet been made.

Ambulances delivering patients to the Hull Royal infirmary. Foremost,

the turnaround time guidelines. If there are no bays available,

patients have to stay in the ambulance. One paramedic told us

during busy periods, they are often held up with patients on stretchers

for up to an hour. The ambulances are parked outside not doing what

they are supposed to be doing. Response times drop. If they cannot

that the patients in in time, the hospital gets fined as well. New NHS

figures show that more than 870 patients had to wait longer than

they should before being transferred into A between December and

February. Hospitals face fines of ?200 for every 30 minutes and

ambulances kept waiting. In theory, this could mean the hospital trust

could be fined ?175,000. Hospital managers have not yet been told

whether they are to be fined. We want to spend every penny on

improving patient care. We are investing ?7 million to improve the

emergency department facilities. If we were fined a huge amount of

money, it might threaten investment. The key thing is to work with our

partners to deliver the right care for patients and spending money

wisely where we need to invest in improvements in the hospital and in

the community. We have received a statement from the Yorkshire

Ambulance Service same patient handovers can be a challenge during

times of high demand. It adds they are working with hospitals to

minimise and avoid delays in the future. Meanwhile, doctors insist

even when patients are kept waiting in ambulances they are still getting

the care they need. Would you say there has been a

winter A crisis? No, I would not. What we saw in Hull is worrying but

it is not the picture right across Yorkshire. In York, they are meeting

the target 98% of the time. We have got other gun, Wakefield,

Pontefract, I believe they are hitting 99% of their targets `` we

have got Dewsbury. The government put ?650 million into A services

for the winter. The important thing was it was not just about new money,

it was also about the timing. It came early so it allowed hospitals

to plan ahead. There is still an awful lot of trusts in our area not

hitting the 95% target to see patients within four hours. Many

people watching will say, I checked into A and I was not seen within

four hours. It is worrying and needs to be worked on. The hope is the

money that has been put in by the government will improve the targets.

Linda Riordan, we know you're A department in Halifax is under

threat, as we saw there. Where would you find the ?50 million that needs

to be saved in order to keep the A open? The most important thing said

was that we want services closer to home. That is what they want to give

to us. Taking away the A to Huddersfield and Dewsbury hospital

has been mentioned, that accident and emergency is closing down. The

pressure on Huddersfield, three A into one. People want to find

the money to keep the NHS as it is. I think the government actually had

their wrist slapped. A `` for saying that the money is rising when it is

not. Where would a future Labour government find the money? We have

got to find it. The bankers bonuses would be my first point. People want

the NHS as it is. We want a `` A close to home. We have got to keep

Calderdale. Purpose`built hospital, 2000. Closing A is political

suicide for the government. We have got to support the NHS services. The

government is doing that. It has put more money into the NHS. ?650

million went into winter resilience for this year which was new money

and it went in in good time. Whenever you are looking at

reconfiguring services, it is always difficult. For me, the key thing is

there has got to be proper consultation. I think that Linda

Riordan has already said that is not happening and that is a concern.

When you take a decision like this, it must not be politicians making

those decisions. It has got to be health care professionals. More on

the week's political news now. Louise has our round`up in 60

seconds. There was a post`budget high amongst

commuters between Hull and Selby when electrification of the line was

announced. Local MPs want work to begin soon in time for when Hull

becomes City of Culture in 2017. But Conservatives faced accusations

of patronising southern stereotyping of the North after publishing this

message trumpeting the Chancellor's decision to cut the duty on beer and

tax on bingo. Hull MP Diana Johnson says Tories need re`educating.

Working class culture is not just about beer and bingo. Or for that

matter pigeon fancying, wearing a flat cap or having a whippet.

An 84`year`old Lincolnshire Conservative MP Sir Peter Tapsell is

to stand down at the next general election. His decision will open up

a plum vacancy in a safe Tory seat wanting speculation the seat is

being lined up for Boris Johnson, especially after David Cameron said

he wanted the Mayor of London back in the Commons at the next election.

Linda Riordan, what did you make of the budget? We are waiting to see

how it will pan out, being able to take all of our pensions. You have

got a week pension, have you? I have not. I do not think that will be it.

I am picking up on the clips and what Diane said are getting more

Eton boys into the Cabinet, it shows when you get leaflets about bingo

and beer. That is what they think about us in Halifax. That is not the

case. Not everybody plays bingo. There is nothing wrong with that or

going for a pint. The beer and bingo advert was a mistake? It was. I

would not have done it. About the budget, it was a really good budget.

Penny off the beer is good news. I have lots of pubs in my patch will

be pleased about that. Also, the brewing industry in Yorkshire will

be celebrating. Lots of good news in the budget. Obviously, the personal

tax allowance was a big thing as well. You are not just Tory toffs

then, no idea about how we operate in the north? I am Yorkshire born

and bred and proud of that. I did not agree with what was put in

there. The budget was good. Another thing, we must mention this, the

Yorkshire Air Ambulance and the support for it, something that all

Yorkshire MPs have been campaigning on and we have had a success. The

Chancellor has listened. Would you like to see Boris Johnson back in

the Commons? He probably will. I think he is coming back and we will

see how it plays out and how the Prime Minister... Of course you

surround yourself by friends and allies when you are the Prime

Minister. But do we want to many Eton boys and girls if we have many

girls in the Cabinet? Boris Johnson back rest at I don't know. It is not

up to me to decide. It is up to the members of the seat to decide. I am

very sad to see the news about Sir Peter Tapsell. He will be missed.

Thank you both for your time Julian Sturdy, Linda Riordan. Back to

Andrew Neil. decision, she will weigh up the

The big news is the popular server is struggling to control all of the

people who want to find out where they fit in the political spectrum.

It hasn't quite crashed but it is queueing up those people. Who would

have thought the Sunday Politics had so many viewers? It has never

happened on the X factor. This morning's papers don't make

comfortable reading for Labour with two separate polls showing the

party's lead over the Tories is down to just one point. And there's been

plenty of criticism of Ed Miliband's response to the Budget. Let's take a

look. You know you are in trouble when even the Education Secretary

calls you and out of touch bunch of elitist. Where is he? He is hiding!

I think he has been consigned to the naughty step by the Prime Minister.

The naughty step! And we're joined now by shadow chief secretary to the

Treasury, Chris Leslie. There was a widely criticised response by Ed

Balls to the Autumn Statement, now a widely criticised response by Ed

Miliband to the Budget. Does this show you are struggling at the

moment? Of course Ed Balls and Ed Miliband don't want to hear the fact

that in reality, for most people, life is getting harder and there is

the cost of living crisis. Did we get any mention of that in the

Budget? Of course we didn't. We were waiting for action on the cost of

living and it wasn't forthcoming. Ed Miliband came up with the tactic of

responding to the Budget without mentioning anything that was in it.

He mentioned the fact the personal tax allowance was a bit of a

giveaway but he takes more with the other hand. He is in favour of that,

right? Anything we can get but we need a lot more. Let me tell you

something else he mentioned, the fact the national debt has risen by

a third and George Osborne and David Cameron... They knew that before the

Budget. The borrowing figures were announced and Ed Miliband made

reference to those. There is not a lot of happiness on Labour

backbenchers about this, is there? And indeed not a lot of happiness in

the shadow cabinet. There is concern that Ed Miliband is on a journey to

remodel world capitalism whilst George Osborne is firing some love

bombs at Middle England by talking about freeing up the pensions market

and there is real nerves that what Ed Miliband is saying is not going

to be in tune with those middle income earners that the Labour Party

has got to attract if they are going to win the general election. When

Rachel Reeves used the medium of Radio 4 to announce you were broadly

in favour of the pension reforms announced by the Chancellor on

Friday night, was that a result of a decision taken by the shadow

cabinet? Is With annuities, they are a very old-fashioned product. There

are some serious questions which need to be addressed. Was that the

result of a Shadow Cabinet decision? We have not had a Shadow

Cabinet since the budget. We all want to make sure that we understand

the point about flexibility. No one is arguing with that. There are some

serious concerns. Let me give you a couple of examples. This is

something the Chancellor has done, he claims, for reasons of freedom

and flexibility. Is it a coincidence he is grabbing quite a lot of tax

from pensioners early on to plug a hole which is necessary because the

deficit has not gone down? Forgive me for being slightly cynical about

motives. For or against it? We need to have safeguards for protection of

pensioners. What will it do for the annuity market if most people still

want to have a steadying come for a third of their lives? -- steady

income. What does Labour have to do to get it show back on the road? The

question is, how do people feel? How many people will still not be

feeling better by the next election? Wages may be rising slightly but not

for a large and significant number of people. They were just looking at

the YouGov poll. If you look at the middle to low earners, they are

overwhelmingly pro-labour. Can Labour get those people out to vote?

They are really hurting. There are plenty of them. The question is

whether people are optimistic because they see figures as if they

look as if they are on the up or whether they vote according to how

they feel, which will still be very far behind. Cost of living has been

a major mantra from Labour. That's that this chart shows how things are

beginning to change. What this shows is that, sometime this year, after a

long time at which average earnings trailed inflation, they now overtake

it in the run-up to the election and they stay there for the forecast

period. What do you now do if your cost of living mantra is running out

of steam? I am not sure that, for most people, they will recognise the

sense that suddenly things will be getting better. Particularly the

younger generation are really feeling quite down about the

pressures they are facing to make ends meet. You can see the lines are

exaggerated because the Y axis on the side starts quite high up. It

does not start at zero. The other statistic from the OBR is that we

will not be getting back to the point where wages are exceeding

prices from the pre-banking crisis period until late 2017. There are

some really serious pressures that people are under. What they wanted

was a budget that would address concerns and, for the vast majority

of people, they will have heard the statement by George Osborne and

think, how is it really help them now? It did not address it. It is

clear that by 2015, average living standards will probably not have

returned to where they were in 2010. Average wages will not have

done that. On the other hand, the chart shows the sense of direction

is moving in the right way. Which one matters more with the

electorate? I suspect it is sense of direction. People sense of

prosperity does not need to be buoyant. It has to be something

worth preserving. We have to fear the all turn. That is what intrigued

me this week. People make too much of a fuss about the Parliamentary

response by Ed Miliband. People will forgive a bad day at the dispatch

box. What they will not forgive is the absence of a macro economic

mess. Labour have a very powerful message on living standards and lots

of popular, targeted interventions like the energy price freeze. You

can imagine they will be sufficiently nervous about that next

year. If living standards are not back to where they were, Labour can

say, are you better off now than when you were four years ago? The

reason why break and -- wallowed waken one that is because Jimmy

Carter mucked it up -- Ronald Reagan. Labour have to say, vote for

us and you will get 2 million homes. At the moment, the offer is very

modest. You need to find the money to do that. People need to

understand that housing is at the very heart of the economy, as well

as young people and their aspirations. At the moment, Labour

's offer is not spectacular in. If the focus group shows the cost of

living crisis have no longer has the attraction it did, what line do you

move onto? Yellow McCoy must remind people of the wasted years and the

cost of living pressures they have been under. -- we must remind

people. We want a recovery which has low growth, low wage. A race to the

bottom. They want a recovery that is felt by everyone, shared and felt by

all. Now, here's an idea to twist your melon. Mark Berry, better known

as Bez, it says here he's a member of something called The Happy

Mondays, wants to stand for parliament. He's best known for

being in a band, and not doing very much, so he might fit in. Here he is

in action. And Bez joins us from our Salford

studio. Good to see you. Is this a genuine candidacy or are you

twisting my melon? Amazing how time flies when you're having fun! You

having fun doing this candidacy? I am doing the job of the politicians

and standing up for the people and bringing attention to the horror of

fracking, which is a totally unsafe technology. There is no one in

mainstream politics who is discussing or saying anything about

it. It is an unsafe technology and it has been proven in America. You

see the process in America and the people out on the streets. The whole

atmosphere has been made toxic. These people are allowing it to

happen in the name of profit. This has been a Labour seat you are

fighting in Salford since 1945. It is a tough mountain. Supposing you

were to win, could you ever see yourself entering a coalition? With

a bit of luck I may be able to shame Labour politicians to do the job

properly and stand up for the rights of people. They are not and I am

having to do that job. All I am doing is causing debate and bringing

to attention the horror that is hanging on our doorsteps. It is not

only fracking but GM modified foods that they want to bring into this

country as well. Owen Paterson is one of the main lobbyists. Lobbying

is legalised bribery, by the way. It is run by the bankers. Basically, we

have to stop these monsters from getting into our country and turning

our land into a toxic waste. That is what I am trying to say. You are

raising the debate, as you are doing with us here. We do not really need

fracking. You have done that and you have talked about other things as

well. In terms of a new integrity, if you were to become an MP, would

you claim expenses? If I ever do get in charge, I would completely enter

the banking system and there would be expensive, but they would be like

bus passes and train passes. You behave like the people and you are

in touch with the people, you move with the people and do understand

what the people want. You do not live in acre Kuhn of your own making

of luxury, wealth and total disregard of everyone else. -- a

cocoon. If you did get into the Palace of Westminster and had to

mingle with all these people, who would you rather have in night out

with - Mr Cameron, Mr Miller band or Mr Clegg? I would be willing to

discuss politics with anybody. I would make them realise what they

are doing. I am glad too have a debate and with anyone. The people

of Salford, quite a lot people people behind me. I have been

speaking to Salford councillors. They are going to lend me their

support. The people of Salford, and not to forget the people of Eccles,

sending you much. We must stop this horror. There is a monster on our

doorstep and we must stop it, people. Do not forget to take your

maracas on campaign trail. Would you like a pair to shake yourself? You

shake your maracas against fracking! Thanks, Bez, goodbye. Thank you for

giving me a little platform to express my views. Now if there's one

thing that gets us hot under the collar here at the Sunday Politics

it's European elections. The only thing we like more than the

elections themselves is a TV debate about them. And we're in luck! Take

a look at this. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome leader of

the Liberal Democrats and Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg. Gives

the most fantastic welcome to Nigel Farage. I would challenge Nigel

Farage to a public, open debate, about whether she we should be out

all in of the European Union. I will do it for Nick Clegg. Since 2009, I

have taken part in 45% of votes in the European Parliament. Nigel

Farage has not tabled a single amendment since July 2009. Mr Clegg

has only taken part in 22% of votes in the House of commons. You can

watch the debate at 7pm on the 2nd of April over on BBC Two. And for a

chance to be part of the studio audience on the night and put your

question to the two party leaders, e-mail the question you'd like to

ask to [email protected] or tweet it using the hashtag

#europedebate. And Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage will be limbering up

this week with their first debate on LBC radio on Wednesday. Who is going

to come out the best? I suspect Nigel Farage. It is easy to portray

Nick Clegg as morally compromised, who has not asserted himself in

government. I do wonder about Nigel Farage, whether he is much better at

delivering a popular line and responding to the second question of

third question. Nick Clegg will win it hands over fist because he knows

this stuff. He is right. The evidence that he can produce about

what will happen if we pulled out of Europe will, I think, overwhelm

Nigel Farage 's one-liners. They will both be winners because you

will have the rare sight of the pro-European saying he likes the

European Union. That is unlike Eurosceptics who tie themselves up

in knots. 14 Nigel, one for Nick and one for both. There you go. Here is

a mess, it is Janen Ganesh. That's all for today. The Daily Politics is

on BBC Two at Lunchtime every day this week, I'll be back here next

week with Energy Secretary Ed Davey. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the

Sunday Politics.