06/04/2014 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

Pressure on Culture Secretary Maria Miller mounts as the Tory press,

Tory voters and even a Tory Minister turn against her. That's our top

story. The economic outlook is getting

rosier. But Ed Miliband is having none of it. The cost of living

crisis is here to stay, says Labour. Shadow Minister Caroline Flint joins

us for the Sunday Interview. And we bring you the Sunday Politics

Gallery. But which former world leader is behind these paintings of

world leaders? leader is behind these paintings of

Coming up in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire: is it

Coming up in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire: is it time to limit

the number of keys on our high streets?

new London borough. A blue flint for regeneration or economic Armageddon?

And with me as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the

business - Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Their tweets will be

as brief as a Cabinet Minister's apology.

A frenzy of betting on the Grand National yesterday. But there was

one book on which betting was suspended, and that was on the fate

of Culture Secretary Maria Miller, now the 2/1 favourite to be forced

out the Cabinet. She galloped through her apology to the Commons

on Thursday in just through her apology to the Commons

speed did her no favours. There s been mounting pressure on her to

resign ever since, especially from Tories. And this weekend the

Chairman of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority,

Ian Kennedy, said it's time MPs gave away the power to decide how

colleagues who break the rules are punished. An inquiry into Maria

Miller's expenses claims was launch in 2012, following allegations he

claimed ?90,000 to fund a house she lived in part time with her parents.

She had designated this her second home. She was referred to the

Parliamentary Standards Commissioner, who recommended that

she repay ?45,000. But this week the Commons Standards

she repay ?45,000. But this week the comprising of MPs from all parties,

dismissed the complaint against Maria Miller and ordered her to

repay just ?5,800 for inadvertently overclaiming her merge claimants.

She was forced to apologise to the Commons for the legalistic way she

dealt with the complaints against her. But Tony Gallagher told the

Daily Politics on Friday: We got a third call from Craig Oliver who

pointed out, she is looking at Leveson and the call is badly timed.

I think if you are making a series of telephone calls to a newspaper

organisation investigating the conduct of a Cabinet Minister, that

comes close After that interview Craig Oliver

contacted us, saying there was no threat in anyway over Leveson. I

mead it clear at the time. Tony Gallagher is talking rubbish about

me, and you can use that. Gallagher is talking rubbish about

Telegraph have released a tape of a phone call between Maria Miller s

aid, Joanna Hindley, and a reporter investigating her expenses claim.

Joanna Hindley said: Maria's obviously been having quite

a lot of editor's meetings around Leveson at the moment. So I'm just

going to kind of flag up that connection for you to think about.

The Prime Minister is sticking by his Culture Secretary, but this

weekend's crescendo of criticism of her presents him with a problem and

he could be wishing Maria Miller would just fall on her sword. Even

over 80% of Tory voters in a Mail on Sunday poll think she should go On

the Andrew Marr Show, the Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan

Smith, defended his colleague. I've known her always to be a reasonable

and honest person. But is she doing the Government or her any good by

staying in office at the moment do you think? This is a matter the

Prime Minister has to take consideration of and she herself. My

view generally is I'm supportive of Maria, because if we are not careful

we end one a witch-hunt of somebody. And I'm joined now by the

Conservative MP, Bob Stewart, and the man in the white suit, former MP

and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin Bell. Welcome to you both. Stuart

Stuart sturkts let me put this to you, a Conservative MP told this

programme, this is a quote, she has handled this appallingly. Downing

Street has acted like judge and jury, for Craig Oliver to get

involved is disastrous. She's been protected by the whips from the

start. What do you say to that? It's not great, is it? The fact of the

matter is the question one should ask is, did she deliberately try to

make money? Did she deliberately try to obscure ate? The answer is she

certainly didn't deliberately try to make money, in the system, which was

the old system, and with regard to obscure ago, I wasn't there, but

let's put it this way. She was going through a quasi-judicial process and

might have ended up in court, so she has a right to defend herself. Hold

on o you said she doesn't do it to make money, she remortgaged the

house a couple of times to earn more interest to us, the taxpayer, and

when interest rates went down she didn't reduce the amount she was

charging in expenses. Well, the point is the adjudicator said there

was ?45,000 she was owed. And then a committee, Standards Committee, said

actually it should be reduced. That was mainly MPs but there are three

lay members. Yes, but they don't have the vote. OK, fine, that is

where it is wrong and we've got to get it sorted. Let me put another

quote from our Conservative MP. He didn't want to be named. None of you

do at the moment. I'm being named. But you are backing her. George

young in cahoots. He's been leading on the Standards Committee to find

her innocent. The Standards Committee is unfit for purpose. I

think the Standards Committee should be revisited. I think the system is

still evolving. And I think actually we ought to have totally independent

judgment on MPs' pay and allowances. We haven't have not got there yet

and that is where it is wrong. Martin Bell, have MPs interfered in

the Maria Miller process and with the current Standards Commissioner

in the same way that they saw off a previous Commissioner they thought

was too independent? Andrew it is exactly the same. Yesterday I looked

at a diary entry I made for May 2000, I said, dreadful meeting

standards and privileges, they are playing party politics. One of them

told Elizabeth fill kin to her face the gossip in the tea room was she

had gone crazy. Nothing's changed. What this shows is most of all,

what's the committee for? If it is just going to rubber stamp what the

party wants and its mates, I don't see any point. But it hasn't rubber

stamped. It's changed it. Well, it has watered down. That's why we

should make it totally independent and it shouldn't be involved in the

House of Commons. It is and it shouldn't be involved in the

change isn't it? MPs', scandal, and MPs closing ranks for one of their

own. Has the Commons learned nothing? And this is after the

expenses scandal, where everything was out for everybody to see, you

would think MPs would be careful. This is before the expenses scandal.

We are looking at an historical event, during your time, Martin not

mine. I'm clean on this. You campaigned for him as an

independent. I did, he was a good friend of mine. And now you've

joined the club. And now you are defending Maria Miller? I'm

defending someone who hasn't been proved guilty of anything beyond the

fact she was rather slow to come forward with evidence. My point on

that, is I understand that. MPs are being lambasted the whole time these

days. There were a heck of a lot being lambasted the whole time these

them, Martin, who are utterly decent. She didn't try to make

money. We've just been through that. I don't think that's right. The jury

is out on that. What should have happened in the Miller case, Martin

Bell? I don't think there should be a committee on standards. I think

the Commissioner should make a report. There has been to be justice

for the MP complained against. Then the committee of the whole House can

consider it. But we are, the House of Commons, then as now is incapable

of regulating itself. That's been proving yet again. She made a

perfunctory apology. She threatened and instructed the Standards

Commissioner investigating her, and her special adviser linked expenses

to Leveson, when trying to stop the Daily Telegraph from publishing I

mean, is that the behaviour of a Cabinet Minister? Well, it's

probably not the behaviour of someone that's got time on their

hands. She's a very busy Cabinet Minister. Well, she had enough time

to write lots of letters to the Standards Commission ser. She felt

under such threat. She had the time. She had to make the time. Die know

the lady is not trying desperately to make money. I disagree but on

that. The fact of the matter is this was an old, old system, that

we've tried to put right, or the Commons has tried to put right. I

agree that MPs shouldn't get involved in this. Should we get rid

of this committee? It serves no purpose except to cause trouble The

adjudicator has said that and it should be the end of it. It

shouldn't come back to the Commons. Although her special adviser

threatened them over Leveson she was and is the Minister responsible for

trying to introduce something like Leveson and that is something a big

chunk that the press doesn't want. She is a target. It has a good

record on this issue. It played wit a straight bat. The facts aren't in

dispute are they? Will she make it to the next cabinet reshuffle and

then go? Iain Duncan Smith said it is a matter for the Prime Minister.

In my view, as things stand, I question did she deliberately want

to make money? I don't think she did. Should she go? No. Should she

be reshuffled? I don't know. Goodness me, you are asking someone

who will never be reshuffled, because he will never make it. I was

only asking for your opinion, not your ability to do it. This is a

problem for Cameron isn't it? It is a problem for Cameron. There is

nothing wrong with returning to be badge benches, as you know. Hear,

hear. To that. Stick with me. Helen, can she survive? Is I'm going out of

the prediction game when I said Clegg is going to win the date, so I

owe Janan a tenner on that one. Grant Shapps has supported her. She

was ringed by Sir George young and Jeremy Hunt... This is pretty

devastating. On past form David Cameron hates having to bounce

people out of the cabinet. He will want to keep Maria Miller until the

summer reshuffle. This is a question mark on whether she survive this is.

This isn't damaging to the Conservative or the Labour Party, it

is damaging to everyone. This is catastrophic damage to the entire

political establishment. Every single speech that David Cameron and

Ed Miliband have given since 20 9, talking about restoring trust, they

can wipe them from their computers, because voters are going to look

that there and say, this lot haven't learnt anything. They are giving

perfunctory apologies and then you have MPs sitting in judgment on MPs

and rather than paying back ?45 000, she pays back ?5,800 after MPs have

been into it. Damage is huge. Just getting rid of one Cabinet Minister,

you will need to do more than that. You will notice that Labour haven't

made huge weather of this. No, goodness me, they have their

made huge weather of this. No, skeletons. Exactly. The person who

has made hay out of this is Nigel Farage, who has not been backwards

in coming forward. He doesn't seem to care about skeletons. The Prime

Minister has be-Gunby backing her, but that's not popular even with

Tory voters. How does he get out of this? This is the problem for him.

Five years ago his reaction to the expenses scandal was seen by many

Tory backbenchers as excessive. They felt hung out to dry by a man who is

independently wealthy. To go from that to making a special exemption

to Maria Miller because it is politically suitable is more

incendiary and provocative. It is not just upsetting the voters and

the Daily Telegraph but a good number of people behind him. I think

they will get rid of her. I think the Government, to paraphrase

Churchill, will zoo the decent thing after exhausting all options, of the

European elections a reshuffle. The culture department has gone from a

baulk water in haul to one of the most politically sensational jobs

because of its proximity to the Leveson issue. She has to be

replaced by someone Lily skillful and substantial. Mr Cameron is not

short of smart women? Nikki Morgan, the education department, these are

absolutely outstanding women and the problem that the generation elected

in 2005, Maria Miller generation, there are some really good people

in 2005, Maria Miller generation, elected in 2010. You are not

responsible for hacking into the culture Department's Twitter account

last night? I was out at the time! They all say that! One so, Maria

Miller is like a modern-day Robin Hood... She robs the poor to help

the rich. Which one of us has not embezzled the taxpayer? I reckon it

is the lady. You have the perfect cover. We would not know how to

would we? You cannot tweet from a mobile device, can you? Play it

safe. No, do something dramatic Have lots of pledges. Have

safe. No, do something dramatic few pledges. Ah, there must be a

Labour policy review reaching its conclusion because everyone has some

free advice for the party about its message and the man delivering it.

Here's Adam. He is well liked by the public don't quite buy him as a

leader. The papers say he is in hock to the unions and the party has a

lead in the polls but it is not solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That

is what they said Winnie who lost the 1982 election. The whole country

deserves better and we will work to ensure that the day will come when

with the Labour government, the country will get better. Someone who

was there can see some spooky parallels. The important lesson from

1992 is it cannot rest on your laurels and hope for the best, you

cannot sit on a lead of seven points because the election narrows that

and you cannot rely on the government not getting its act

together because the Conservative Party was well funded and organised,

the double whammy posters, the tax bombshell, but incredibly effective

and the message was unified and they beat us on the campaign. The lesson

for Labour today is this lead will evaporate quite possibly over the

next few months and we might go into the election behind in the polls.

But Ed Miliband is getting conflicting advice about how to

avoid 1992 happening. Be bold, be cautious and then, the idea that

Labour can squeak into office with just 35% of

Labour can squeak into office with some people. Each month, the Labour

Party meets around the country and last week, everybody spoke about the

dangers of this 35% strategy. They were increasingly unhappy and it is

very important that those people around the leader naturally have a

duty to protect him and they make sure he gets this message that while

there is total support for him, they do want this key year in the run-up

to the General Election to be putting out an alternative which we

can defend on the doorstep. The doorstep where Neil Kinnock made his

concession speech is crammed with Spanish back hackers. The old Labour

offices are no a budget hostel. Labour headquarters is down the road

and they are putting the finishing touches to a speech Ed Miliband will

give this week about the cost of living and I am told he will drop

hints about new policies in juicy areas like housing, low pay, growth

and devolving power. As for the charge that they are not radical

enough, his people say they want to be bold but they have to be credible

as well. They say that Labour is more united than it has ever been

but there has been some grumbling that the cost of living campaign is

not the same as a vision for the country. And that Ed Miliband was

not statesman-like enough at Prime Minister's Questions and one figure

who sat at the same table in the Neil Kinnock years summed it up like

this. Things are OK but it feels like we're playing for the draw

Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint joins me now for the Sunday

Interview. This 35% victory strategy, it does not sound very

ambitious? I am campaigning to win this election with a majority

government and everybody else around the table is also. But we want to go

to every corner of the country and win votes for Labour and win seats,

that is what we are working towards. To avoid last time, the coalition

bartering. But that 35% is a victory strategy so are you saying there is

no 35% strategy and that no one at the heart of Labour is not arguing

for this? We are working to win around the country and to win all of

those battle ground seats and we must have a strategy that appeals to

a cross-section of the public but within that, that broad group Queen

Elizabeth Olympic Park and. You could do that with 35% of the vote?

There is lots of polling and everyone looks at this about what we

need to do to get seats and we want to have a comprehensive majority at

the next election to win to govern this country. Last week, we have

been reading reports of splits in the party over policy and on

tactics, even strategy. A struggle for control of the General Election

manifesto, we are told. What are you arguing over? I said on the

committee and just listening to the film before, it is about being

radical but also credible and we are talking about evolution and that is

an important subject but we are also united and to be honest, in 201

people were writing us off saying we would turn on ourselves and that has

not been the case. We are not arguing about the fundamentals, we

are discussing the policies that are coming up with different colleagues

and talking about how we can make sure they are presented to the

public and that is part of a process. That is a discussion, not

disagreement. The Financial Times, which is usually pretty fair,

reports a battle between Ed Miliband's radical instincts and the

more business fiscal conservatism of Ed Balls. What side are you on? I am

for radical change, I am for energy and I believe strongly we must be

formed the market and people might portray that as anti-business but

this is about more competition and transparency and others coming into

this market so our policy on this is radical, not excepting the status

quo. It is also for business. Opinion polls show that few people

regard Ed Miliband as by Minister material -- Prime Minister material.

That has been true since he became leader. And in some cases, they have

been getting worse. Why is that Opinion polls say certain things

about the personalities of leaders, David Cameron is not great either.

And they were not great when he was in opposition. At this stage, he was

getting 49% as Prime Minister real material and Ed Miliband, 19. -

Prime Minister material. When you look at certain questions that the

public is asked about who you think you would trust about being fair in

terms of policy towards Britain who understands the cost of living

crisis, they very much identify with Ed Miliband. We are ahead in the

polls. Ed Miliband has made that happen. We have one more

councillors, we have been running in by-elections and we have held this

government over the barrel over six months on energy prices. That is to

do with his leadership. The more that voters save him,

do with his leadership. The more seem convinced. In 2011, he had been

leader for one year, and only 1 % regarded him as weird, by 2014, that

was 41%. Look at that! Look at that weirdness! What people need is to

know where the Labour Party stands on fundamental issues. And in those

areas, particularly the cost of living and fairness and people being

concerned that we are entering into a period where people will be worse

for the first time ever at the end of the Parliament, these things are

important and Ed Miliband is part of our success. Definitely. I think

this is ridiculous, to be fair, he is not a politician that says, I am

dying with is not a politician that says, I am

know who is the number one. He did not play that game. -- down. He is

not either there to portray himself as someone who was with the

children, I know everything about popular culture. His authenticity is

the most important thing. People do not think he is authentic, unless

they think we were at is authentic. Is it true that his staff applaud

him when he comes back after giving even a mediocre speech? I have never

heard that. I have never heard about him being applauded. And I am

pleased to applaud him with he makes speeches, I have given him a

standing ovation. You have to do that because the cameras are

rolling! No, he made a good speech. that because the cameras are

Five minutes without notes. It took a long time to memorise I don't

blame him! The cost of living. Focusing on that, it has paid

dividends. But inflation is falling and perhaps collapsing, unemployment

is falling faster than anybody thought, as we can see. Wages are

rising, soon faster than prices Retail sales are booming, people

have got money in their pockets Isn't the cost of living crisis

narrative running out of steam? I do not think so and I should say that I

welcome any sign of positive changes in the economy, if anybody gets a

job in Doncaster, I am pleased by the end of this Parliament families

will be over ?900 worse off because of tax and benefit changes and the

working person is ?1600 worse off and it is the first government since

the 1870s where people will be at the end of the Parliament. We

believe the government made wrong choices that lead the rich off at

the expense of those on middle and lower incomes. -- let the rich. The

average family ?794 worse off from tax and benefit changes. That has

been backed up. They are those figures. But he has skewed these

figures by including the richest, where the fall in tax and the

penalty they pay is highest. If you take away the richest, it is nowhere

near that figure. Everybody agrees and even the government and

knowledges that at the end of their tenure in Parliament, people will be

worse off. 350,000 extra people who would desperately like full-time

work who are working part-time and 1 million young people unemployed and

the reason the cost of living has a residence is people feel that. I was

in a supermarket and at Doncaster and someone summed this up, he said

I work hard and at the end of the week, beyond paying bills, I have

got nothing else. If you take away the top 10% who are losing over

?600,000, the average loss comes down to around ?400, less than half

of what you claim. That figure is totally misleading. These are the

figures from the IFS. It still shows... Whatever way you shape

this, people will still be worse off, families worse off because of

these changes to tax and benefits and working people because wages

have not kept up with prices. Your energy portfolio, you back the

enquiry into the big six companies and you intend to go ahead with the

price freeze and reconfigure the market even before it reports. If

you win, this is a waste of time? Whilst we have had this process

before the announcement, we always feel if it goes that way, there

might be areas we have not thought of that the enquiry will also draw

attention to that we might want to add on. You are right, our basic

reforms for the new regulator, to separate generation supply, we will

pursue that. What happens if this report concludes that your plans are

not correct? You will still go ahead? I don't think so. Actually,

if you look at the report that Ofgem produced, some of the issues Labour

has been drawing attention to like vertical integration, they cover

that. I was asking about the Competition Commission? The report

last week is a result of working together and I think it is clearly

accepted in this sector, look at SSE last week, they will separate the

business. We are pushing at the open door. It has already pulled out of

gas. So it follows if you freeze energy prices across the market, it

gas. So it follows if you freeze might be the right thing to do but

there will be a cost in terms of jobs and investment, correct? Well,

I met with SSE last weekand the chief executive and talked about

these issues. The jobs changes are partly about them looking at how

they could be more efficient as a company. On offshore wind that

wasn't really to do with the price freeze. That was more to do with

issues around confidence in that area and therefore willing to put

the money into it, as well as technical issues as well But

there'll be job losses. Is that a price worth paying? We believe the

reason we are having a price freeze is these companies have been

overcharging customers and haven't been investing in their

organisations and making them more efficient. I do not believe a price

freeze is linked to job losses. These companies do need to be more

efficient. Goal for all of us is realising the fantastic opportunity

for more jobs and growth from an energy sector that has certainty

going forward. That's what Labour will deliver. Caroline Flint, thank

you. It's 1130 and you're watching The

Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us

now for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here

Hello, you are watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and

Lincolnshire. Coming up tod`y: is it time to limit the number of betting

shops on our high streets alid fears over the number of people hooked on

gambling? And exit stage right ` why the man

elected as a BNP Euro MP for Yorkshire and the Humber is stepping

down. We'll be discussing fhxed odds terminals, Andrew Brons and much

more with our guests today, who are Philip Davies, a Conservative MP for

Shipley, and Angela Smith, Labour MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge.

Many of us will have enjoyed a flutter on yesterday's Grand

National, on what has been the biggest betting weekend of the year.

But are some people gambling more than they can afford to losd at

their local bookies? That's the claim from some campaigners who

believe that new technology is tempting more punters into ` world

of addiction. Liz Roberts rdports. Betting shops are a familiar sight

on any high street, but it's what's inside that is getting politicians

worried. Dubbed the crack cocaine of the betting world, these fixed odds

betting terminals can take ?100 from you in a matter of seconds. This is

just one of several betting shops here in Harehills in Leeds. There

are four fixed odds terminals inside, and all of them are

occupied. But for those who can t wait to have a go, it's just a short

walk away to find another bdtting shop with even more gaming lachines.

And they can be highly addictive ` something Graham knows all too well.

Because they are fixed odds, you put in an initial sum of money, and you

think at some point the odds are going to swing back in your favour,

that at some point it's going to pay out, and you are going to bd able to

pay the bills with the winnhngs Sometimes that does happen, but most

of the time it doesn't happdn. It's estimated that last ye`r ? 20

million was lost in this region on these machines. But more th`n a

third of that was in areas considered to be among the lost

deprived in the country, and one campaign group says this is no

coincidence. I have actually learned mord about

the industry since I've turned whistle`blower.

Here in Darnall in Sheffield there are four of betting shops whthin

just a few hundred yards. Bookmakers are piling into `reas

exactly like this ` more deprived areas, areas where people are

unemployed who see these machines as a quick way of making money. The

reality is they are not. If you look at the bookmakers, over 50% of their

revenue comes from these machines, so they are no longer betting shops.

They are no longer horse race and sports betting shops. They `re

gaming machine shops driven by fixed odds betting terminals.

It's a problem that is not lost on the local community, who calpaigned

hard to prevent more betting shops appearing on their high strdet.

It's putting temptation in the faces of the people around here who are

living on low incomes and struggling. Very often we sde large

numbers of people just stood outside, in and out of the

bookmakers all day. It's had a really adverse effect on thd area.

It's this cluster of betting shops that Sheffield City Council wants to

stop. We are calling the government to

allow councils to have a much greater control over where betting

shops can locate in our towns and cities. At the moment, national

planning laws mean we can't do that ` it's set by national government.

The government have actuallx relaxed the planning laws that allow betting

shops to open, and we just think local councils should be allowed to

make those kinds of decisions for the benefit of the whole colmunity.

63 councils have now joined the campaign to get greater powdrs, and

with the next general electhon just over a year away, it's likely that

politicians from all parties will be joining the debate.

Philip Davies, how worried `re you about the rise in problem g`mbling?

Well, there isn't a rising problem gambling.

Really? The latest health survey, which came

out just before Christmas, showed that problem gambling rates were at

0.5%, which is the previous gambling prevalence survey from betwden .6

to 0.9%. There are a lot of myths about this particular debatd, with

all sorts of reasons, but actually the facts are that problem gambling

is on the way down. Every form of gambling bar two ` the richdst

people participate in more than the poorest people, including fhxed odds

betting terminals. More richer people play than poorer people. The

only two forms of gambling `re played by more poor people than rich

people are bingo and scratchcards. There are quite a few myths in this

particular debate. Angela Smith, do you take Philip

Davies's point? We don't have a problem with

gambling in this part of thd world? We've got the biggest event in the

annual calendar this weekend, so the majority of bets this weekend will

be on the Grand National. Ldt's be frank about it ` most peopld in this

country still only gamble on occasions like that. It's the

occasional flutter, it's thd national lottery. I take Phhlip s

point on that. But I still think that there is a problem in relation

to a minority who are drawn towards these fixed odds terminals, and it

is the very rapid nature with which they gobble up your money. The

pop`up system, which flags ` warning after you have spent so much in the

machines, is operated according to a voluntary code, at the moment. I'd

like to see that made compulsory. I'd also like to see more planning

powers. I do agree with Sheffield on this. We do need more plannhng

powers to stop the prolifer`tion in the high street.

Let me bring in Peter Craskd from the Association of British

Bookmakers, who is in our London studio. Thank you very much for

joining us. You'll be aware of the medi`

headlines surrounding fixed odds betting terminals, that thex are the

so`called crack cocaine of gambling. What is your response to th`t?

They're not a new product. They have been in betting shops for

over 12 years. They've cert`inly grown in popularity with our

customers, but shops aren't opening because of those. Of course there is

going to be more betting shops somewhere like Leeds, where there is

a population of 750,000 people. Sheffield has a population of

500,000 people, and 84% of `ll betting shops are located in those

commercial city centres. But this is an industry that targets

the poorest people in society. You drive through poor areas of our

region, and you will see far more betting shops than you will in the

wealthier areas. You will see more betting shops in

areas of high population, lhke Leeds or Sheffield, because 84% of all

betting shops are located in those centres. In Leeds, even with a

population of 750,000, betthng shops account for only 3.5% of thd entire

retail occupancy. That doesn't stack up, becatse I

represent part of Sheffield, and I haven't got the proliferation of

betting shops in my constittency that Clive Betts have got in places

like Darnall. The differencd between my constituency and Clive's is that

Clive's constituency is a lot more deprived than mine. That just

doesn't stack up as an argulent But the industry has never targeted

deprived areas. I don't think that's the pohnt.

We are the same as any other type of retailer ` we open shops whdre there

are the most customers. That's no difference to a coffee shop or a

newsagent. We want our customers to get safely and responsibly, and

yesterday with the Grand National we have a lot more stuff into help

people understand ` people who only come in once a year to bet, but

gaming machines are popular with our customers.

Overall, the level of probldm gambling is very small, but it's

still too much. So if you want people to galble

safely and responsibly, will you then do what we are asking xou to do

which is slow down the speed with which these machines take pdople's

money? It's not a matter for the industry `

it's regulated by the gamblhng commission and the government.

You could do it voluntarily. That's what we are currently asking you to

do. We have just introduced a ndw code

for responsible gambling th`t sets out a whole range of measurds on all

sorts of activities in betthng shops. One is that to play on a

gaming machine you can now, for the first time anywhere in the world,

and this code has been described as world leading because it is, you can

set your own limit on the alount of time you play for, or the alount of

money you spend. Thank you for your time tod`y.

You can do that on the Internet 24 hours a day. It is better to have

people in a controlled environment, rather than on their own on the

Internet. When Angela talks about the private areas, there ard five

times more pubs in deprived areas than betting shops. I don't hear the

Labour Party complaining about pubs going after deprived communhties.

This is all about people behng and typesetting.

`` anti`betting. A controversial in Yorkshird`based

MEP who was elected as a melber of the British National Party has

announced that he is stepping down at the European elections ndxt

month. Five years ago, Andrdw Brons became the first BNP politician to

represent the Yorkshire and Humber region. He later left the p`rty

after falling out with its leader Nick Griffin. Critics have `ccused

Andrew Brons of promoting the politics of hate.

For the past five years, people in Yorkshire and Northern Lincolnshire

have been represented in Europe by this man. Andrew Brons was one of

two BNP Euro MPs elected in 200 ` a result that rocked the political

establishment. They were disillusioned with the

Labour Party, with four million migrants coming in during L`bour's

time, over 90% in England, hn places like Yorkshire. But also with the

political class as a whole, who speaks for white, manual

working`class parts of the population? In all of the p`rties,

the mainstream parties negldcted that, so the BNP were the

beneficiaries of those disillusioned voters.

In the European elections fhve years ago, the British National P`rty

secured the support of almost one in ten voters in Yorkshire and the

Humber. But that support wasn't to last and the party soon bec`me

divided over an internal power struggle.

Britain must get out of the common market, and rebuild a close

relationship with our kinfolk in the white dominions.

Andrew Brons was a former sdnior member of the far right Nathonal

Front, later joining the Brhtish National Party. In 2012, Mr Brons

left the BNP following a dispute with its leader Nick Griffin. He

formed a new political group called the British Democratic Partx, but

have given few interviews about his record as an MEP.

If you look at the attendance figures, my attendance is one of the

highest. If you look at the number of speeches I've made, I thhnk I'm

about 11th out of the 73 UK MEPs, within the top 10`12% of thd whole

parliament. Andrew Brons claims to have given

part of his ?80,000 a year salary to a fund set up to help good causes,

although he declined to go hnto detail about which groups h`ve

received money. I'm afraid anybody who recehves

money from us will then be demonised. I'm afraid that's the way

politics is in this country. The odd ?500 here, ?500 there ` there's a

gym in Hull that's received one lot of ?500, and is due to recehve

another lot. A brass band in West Yorkshire, I can't remember which

one it was now. Certainly, hf you ask me that specifically, I will go

back and give you the chaptdr in verse, but I don't carry th`t around

in my head. Andrew Brons ' critics say they

won't be sorry to see him step down as an MEP.

He worked as a lecturer, so he was more articulate than Griffin, and

able to present himself as `n elder statesman. But it's a thin veneer,

and you really need to see who he surrounds himself with, and his

politics. It's the politics of hate, and the politics of division.

Really, I think that the message is especially difficult in these times

` it's a time for people to come together, not for people to divide.

together, not for people I said right from the beginning that

I was going to serve for five years, do my best during that five years,

and at the end of it retire. But I'll still play an active p`rt in

politics. What I expect to happen is after May 22nd when, in my view the

meltdown of the nationalist vote will take place, following that I

will invite Nationalists to sit around the same table, and they

where do we go from here? And with that we'll go back to

Andrew Neill in London. to Andrew. Welcome back and time now

to get more from our panel. So they can justify their meagre patents.

This cost of living mantra will last all the way until the election.

Cannot? Ed Miliband leaves he is onto something and for most of this

Parliament, inflation has outstripped wages. That is going to

go the other way and wages will rise, to which you say Ed Miliband

has nothing to say. He says if you think people are going to feel

better in the blink of an eye, you are a Conservative and do not

understand the depth of this and he is taking the message from a

presidential election in America in 2012 and make Romney was ahead on

some of the economic indicators but Barack Obama was ahead on the key

one, do you believe this candidate will make your family's life

better? The message that Ed Miliband will try to say is the next election

is about whose side are you on? And he believes Labour will be on the

side of more voters than conservatives. It would be crazy for

Labour not to talk about the cost of living because even if wages exceed

inflation next year, it is not as if voters will walk around feeling like

inflation next year, it is not as if Imelda Marcos, they will still feel

as if they were struggling and not just compared... Retail sales are

slowing? That is not the sign of palpable disparity. Circumstances

are better than three years ago but not better than five years ago. The

Reagan question will still be employed, are you better off than at

the last election? But things in America were actually getting worse

when he asked that. I covered that election, that is why it resonated

and they did get worse. The Ayatollah had quadrupled the price

of oil. This is based on things getting relatively better, after a

very long wait, so the cost of living critique will have to adapt?

It will but it gets out of a very sticky spot and the IFS says wages

will not outstrip inflation and by that time they can start talking

about other things, plans for the railways and tuition fees and at the

moment, everything is up for grabs. Labour know that every time they

talk about something they want to do, the question is, how do you pay

for it? They can talk about the economy and they don't have

substantial things to say. Is it true that Mr Iain Duncan Smith was

going to make a major announcement on benefit cheats? Or something to

do with that this morning? But he decided against it because of the

tobacco over Maria Miller? It would be very odd to go on to The Andrew

Marr Show to have a chat and see what he is having for lunch. Patrick

went from the Guardian said he was going to set out higher financial

went from the Guardian said he was penalty phase for providing

inaccurate information in claims. This is a bad day to do that, given

that MP expenses are treated far more lenient the than any one from

Joe public. That would be fascinating, if true. And he is

making a very big speech on well for tomorrow and this tweet from Patrick

went at the Guardian, he has proper sized on welfare matters and he

tends to know what is going on. But it would be deeply unfortunate if

that was the message today. How can he make a speech that has anything

about cracking down on benefit claimants? Not today but I am not

sure tomorrow. Do you get the impression that nobody in both main

parties is very confident of winning in 2015? I column last week said the

result, the most likely result from one year on is another hung

parliament and which government results from that depends on the

mathematical specifics of whether the Tories can do a deal as well as

Labour, leaving everything in the hands of Nick Clegg or whether one

party can do a straightforward deal but I do not detect any sense of

exuberance or confidence in either camp. And the Tories are still

shooting themselves over losing the boundary commission reforms because

that was going to net them 20 seats and they lost that because they

messed up the House of Lords reform and there are still furious with

themselves. The former US President, George W Bush, has been a busy boy

and here at the Sunday Politics we thought you'd like to see the

# JOHN WILLIAMS: CAVATINA #. Time for the gallery.

I was a prize to find myself saying, some of these are not bad! --

surprised. Vladimir Putin? I like the one of Tony Blair but his early

ones of dogs, to be in the presence of the master is to see his portrait

of a Joanne Love. He is not of the Turner prize but I was surprised. He

gets the mask of Vladimir Putin also Tony Blair. I was impressed

that he did not allow personal or political grudges to influence his

artwork. Jacques Chirac, he comes out of this incredibly well! And

Angela Merkel comes out astonishingly well. Quite generous

as well. Tony Blair is the best one and the reason is he had the closest

relationship with them and he has talked about this portrait, saying

he was quite fond of him and you can see that. These are awful, they

would not get you an A-level but you must admire him to have the guts to

do this, and display them publicly! An A-level? Just doing joined up

numbers gets you that these days! What do you do when you retire? This

is less embarrassing than some of the other things people have done.

As good as Churchill? I don't know... No! Churchill was brilliant!

And on that! That's all for today. Tune into BBC Two every day at

lunchtime this week for the Daily Politics. And we'll be back at the

later time of 2:30pm next Sunday after the London Marathon. Remember,

if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.