18/05/2014 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

Good morning. Welcome to The Sunday Politics. Just four days to go until

election day, and be warned, coming to a street near you, a party leader

on a charm offensive. They all want your vote in the European elections

on Thursday, and in the local elections across England, too. Polls

are all over the place this morning. Your vote could make a

difference. This man is 11 points ahead in one poll, he has promised

an earthquake on Thursday, but what then? Our Adam has braved the

On the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire all the big

On the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, we look at claims

that local Government is facing extinction, as town halls have less

money and fewer services to run. elections, and the 50th anniversary

of the first elections to London's 32 boroughs. I am in the studio,

with those who think they have got all the big answers. Nick Watt,

Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So, it is the European elections for

everybody on Thursday, local elections for England and a bit of

Northern Ireland as well. They are the last elections before the big

one, the 2015 general election. Some say that these European and local

elections will not be much of a pointer to how the big one goes. But

that will not stop political commentators and party gurus from

examining them closely. So, what is at stake? Thursday May the 22nd is

local elections and European Parliament elections.

These local results should be known by Friday. In the European

elections, all 751 members of the European Parliament will be elected

across Europe. 73 MEPs will be let it by people living in the UK. But

the results will not be announced until Sunday night, after voting has

closed throughout the 28 member states of the EU. Nick Watt, we are

in a position where the polls this morning cannot tell us what the

outcome is going to be on Thursday, and the general election is still

wide open - we really are in uncharted territory? Also it is

difficult to know where we are, because there is that ComRes poll

which shows an 11 point lead amongst those certain to vote for UKIP, and

another poll in the Sunday Times showing that it is a much more

slender lead for UKIP. But we know that will they win? We do not know,

but clearly they will unsettle the major parties. Fall or five months

ago, we assumed that the UKIP success would create panic in the

Conservative Party, but that has been factored into David Cameron's

share price. The Conservative Party is remarkably relaxed at the moment,

and I wonder whether this time next week, when we have the results,

whether the two political leaders who will be under pressure will be

Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg. Nick Clegg, because they could go down

from 12 MEPs to maybe just three or four. And Ed Miliband, because, one

year before a general election, he should be showing that he is a

significant, potent electoral force. So, they should all be

worried about UKIP, but whereas a couple of months ago, we would all

have said David Cameron was the one who should be worried, now, we are

saying it is Mr Miliband and Mr Clegg? And of the two, I think it is

Ed Miliband who should be worried. The Lib Dems are an incredibly

resilient party. He described his own party as cockroaches, and

incredible resilience! I think the Lib Dems are ready to take this one,

but I think Labour are really wobbly at the moment. What UKIP has done,

to England, it means that England has caught up with Scotland,

Northern Ireland and Wales, England now has a four party system, which

makes it all the more uncertain what the outcome will be? Yes, but

whether UKIP finish first or second, it will be the biggest insurgent

event since the European elections began in 1979. People talk about the

Greens in 1989, but I think they finished third. Were UKIP to win a

national election or even finish runner-up, it would be truly

historic. It is reflecting on something which is happening across

Europe, pianist in Italy, Holland, France and in this country. --

populist parties. And it makes first past the post look absolutely

ridiculous. You could be in a situation after the next general

election where Labour do not get the largest percentage of the vote but

they get the largest number of seats. First past the post works

fairly if there are only two parties, but when there are four...

We will talk more about that. Let's speak now to Suzanne Evans of UKIP.

She is at Westminster. Now, UKIP claims that there is going to be an

earthquake in British politics on Thursday. Suppose there is, what

does UKIP then need to do to become a more grown-up, proper party? I

think UKIP has very much become a grown-up, proper party. We have been

around for 20 years. What we are going to be doing after the European

elections, if we do cause this earthquake, and the polls are

looking like we are going to, is we will be firmly looking towards 2015,

getting our general election manifesto out, to keep those votes

on board from the euro elections and putting forward common-sense

policies which really will bring Britain back to the people. We want

to be able to hold the balance of power come the general election. If

we can do that then there will be a referendum. That will be our aim.

You say you are a more grown-up party, but when you look at the

stream of gaffes and controversies created by your candidates and

members, I will not go into them this morning, at the very least, I

would suggest you are needing a more robust system of selection? You

could say the same for the other three parties, who have been around

for a lot longer. They have got nothing like the embarrassments you

had. I am afraid they had. Just this week, since Monday, we have had 17

Liberal Democrat, labour or Conservative councillors either

arrested, charged or convicted on all manner of offences. In addition

we have had 13 who have been involved in some kind of racist,

sexist or homophobic incident. I am not saying I am proud of any of

that. The whole of politics probably needs to be cleaned up, but I

certainly do not think we are any worse than the other parties, who

have much greater resources than we do. Those other parties are even

putting people in power who they know have got criminal convictions

or who have previously belonged to far right, fascist parties like the

BNP. Can you continue to be a one-man band? The only time any

other UKIP petition makes the headlines is when they say something

loony or objectionable? We have a huge amount of talent in this party.

We have fantastic spokespeople across the patch, the huge amount of

expertise in the party. Inevitably the media focuses on Nigel Farage,

who is a fantastic, charismatic leader. But believe me, there is a

huge amount of talent. When we get our MEPs into power after the

European elections, we will see many more of them I think on television

and radio and in the newspapers. We are not a one-man band. Who runs

your party? The party is run by Nigel Farage, our leader. But he

spends all his time running between television studios and in and out of

the pub! You would be amazed how much he does, and of course we have

a National Executive Committee, like the other parties. So who runs it?

The National Executive Committee, in conjunction with Nigel Farage, the

MEPs, the spokespeople, it is a joint effort. Your Local Government

Minister Stosur is, if you vote UKIP, you go on to pledge that your

councillors will not toe the party line, how does that work? -- your

local government manifesto says... On the main policies, they will toe

the party line, because that is obviously what people will be voting

for. It is no good putting forward a manifesto like the Lib Dems did on

2010 and going back on it. We have put forward a lot of positive -- a

lot of policies at local government level, and those we will stick to.

But when it comes to individual, local issues, say, a particular

development or the closure of a school, whatever, UKIP then will

vote what they think is in the best interests of the people in the

borough, and not according to any party whip system. This plays out

really well on the doorstep, I find. People do not want their politicians

to be in the pockets of their party, putting party first, ahead of

the people. You want people to vote to leave the European Union in a

referendum - have you published a road map as to what would then

happen? Yes, there will be a road map. The Lisbon Treaty for the first

time gave us that exit opportunity. Have you published a road map? I am

not the legal expert on this but there are ways in which you can come

out of Europe fairly quickly. There is a longer you all as well. But

have you published any of that detail? Not that I have read. But

certainly there are ways to do it. We are the sixth strongest world

economy, I think we are in a strong position having left the EU to be

able to negotiate a very good trade deal with the European Union. It is

what people voted for in 1975. What would be our exact status? It would

be I think what people voted for back in 1975. An independent,

sovereign country in a trade agreement, a very positive and

valuable trade agreement with the European Union. I voted in that

referendum, I remember it well, 1975 involved the free movement of people

's... That is something which I do not think UKIP or the country wants.

70% of people now are deeply concerned about immigration. So it

would not be 1975, then? Andrew, it sounds like you are complaining that

we might have something which is better than 1975. I am just trying

to find out what it is! That sounds like positive to me. We will

negotiate a trade deal and all manner of issues, whatever is best

for the British people. We want our sovereignty back, we want our

country back. Would you be upset if a bunch of Rumanian men moved in

next door to you? Where I live, I am surrounded by one and two-bedroom

flats. If ten Rumanian men moved in next door to me, I would want to ask

questions. That is very different from say a Robinho family moving in

next door. I would think, are they being ripped off, are they up to no

good or are they perhaps being trafficked by a gang master? So I

think it would be of concern, and I do not think there is anything wrong

with that, it is a humanitarian approach. That would be different

from a family moving in who were learning to speak English, who

wanted to contribute to the British economy. Maybe if your boss is

watching, he will now have found out how to answer that question.

Now, what is more glamorous, 24 hours in the life of a

counter-terrorism agent, or 12 hours in the life of Adam Fleming, on the

campaign trail? I will let you make up your own mind. So, it is eight

o'clock in the morning here in Westminster. Today's challenge is,

how much campaigning for the local and European elections can we fit

into 12 hours? See you back here at eight o'clock tonight. Wish me

luck. With my cameraman and producer, we went to Thurrock in

Essex first. I got a very, very warm welcome from Abe buoyant UKIP. They

have never had this much attention. One candidate's misdemeanour ends up

on the front page. But you have got Lib Dem candidates being convicted

of racially aggravated assault, and that was not on the front pages of

the newspapers. Houdini is fine but it must be applied evenly. Have you

had to sack Thurrock UKIP members for dodgy tweets or anything? Oh,

God, no. Next we head to meet a top Tory in a different area. We are

heading to Eastbourne. But stuck in traffic. We are going to miss

William Hague. We got there, just in time, to ask the really big

questions. David Cameron went to Nando De Colo last week, where are

you going to go for lunch? I do not even get time for lunch. I think

something in the back of the car. We will go down the street and see what

people have got to say. Even the Foreign Secretary has depressed the

flesh at election time? Even the Foreign Secretary meets real people.

The message William Hague impresses upon everyone he meets is that the

Tories are the only party offering a referendum on our membership of the

EU. He's off for lunch in the limo. I've got five minutes by the beach.

This is the best thing about elections, lunch. Do you want one?

And chips are weirdly relevant at our next stop - the Green Party

battle bus which is parked in Ashford in Kent. What is special

about this vehicle? It runs from chip fat oil so it is more friendly

to the environment. But boss was boiling. The next stop is Gillingham

to see Labour. Labour have just hired Barack Obama's election guru

David Axelrod to help them craft their message. What does David

Axelrod know about the people who live on the street? I know the local

details but you handle those. Ed Miliband and his party have had to

handle a few dodgy opinion polls lately, prompting some leadership

speculation from one activist. Who is your favourite Labour politician?

Ed Balls. Back in the car and we're flagging. Final stop, Southwark in

south London. We are in the right place, this is Simon Hughes' Lib Dem

taxi. The Lib Dems are campaigning as the party of in. But are they in

trouble? Your party president said the party would be wiped out and

lose its MEPs. Is that helpful? If he did say that, then no, that's not

terribly helpful. And let's not forget, every London council is

having elections too. I have 40 minutes to get back to the office in

Westminster, which calls for something drastic, like this. After

212 miles, but will be make it home for eight? We have made it, aided,

12 hours of pure politics. Happy elections, everyone.

Adam Fleming impersonating Jack Bauer! Natalie Bennett is in our

studio, welcome back. The Greens used to be the upcoming party in

Britain, now it is UKIP. What went wrong? We are in a very good place,

looking towards travelling our MEPs and we could be the fourth largest

group in Parliament after these elections. More and more people are

recognising we are the only party calling for real change, the only

party saying we have two stop making poor, disadvantaged young people

over the mistakes bankers. You have made a strong pro-environment stands

synonymous with the politics of the left, why have you done that? Why

should an equal minded Conservative vote for you? I think one of the

reasons why many Conservatives, I met them in Chester where they are

stopping coalbed methane exploration, lots of Conservatives

are looking to vote for us beyond issues like fracking and the Green

belt, and many of them are concerned about the fact we haven't reformed

the banks. This morning we had the Bank of England chief coming out and

saying we have a huge house price bubble and people recognise that

many of the parties offering the same are not working. And yet the

polls show that the hardline greenery is not winning. We are

looking to travel our number of MEPs and we have people recognising that

we have to change the way our economic 's, politics and society

works so that everyone has sufficient resources within the

limits of the one planet because one planet is all we have got. You want

all electricity to be generated by renewables, is that right? So where

would the electricity come from on days when the wind is not blowing?

Most of the electricity is there. It is mature. We need to be hooked into

a European wide grid, we need a smart grid that will allow for

demand to be adjusted according to supply. So we would take French

nuclear power, would we? We need to work with a partnership across

Europe. We are being left behind and we are losing opportunities. 50% of

German renewable electricity is owned by communities and it stays

within communities, rather than the big six energy companies. So you

have still got to take the French nuclear power. What we need to

do... Nuclear is a dead technology, going down in the developed world.

At the moment the Government proposes the most expensive proposal

for Britain and yet the last two plans took 17 years to bring online,

way too slow for what we need now. We know what the Green council would

be like if you were to win more seats on Thursday because you run

Brighton. Your own Green MP joined strikers against the council, the

local Greens are at each other's throats, a council ridden with

factionalism, attempts to raise council tax to 5%, attempted coups

against the local Green leader by other Greens and you have had to

bring in mediators. If you look at the life of people in Brighton and

Hove, it has seen its visitor numbers go up by 50,000, it has

become the top seaside resort in Britain, we have seen GCSE results

going up significantly. These are the things affecting people's lives

in Brighton and Hove. 60% of Brighton and Hove people think life

is better and the Greens. We have a debate to be had from next year's

election and perhaps we can have that debate next year. But you hold

up Brighton as the way the city should be run? We have made huge

progress, we have found money to be brought into the city to improve

Green spaces. I was on the big ride in London yesterday, and we need to

change our roads so they worked the people as well as cars. Which side

of the picket line were you on in Brighton? With Caroline Lucas? I was

in London, travelling around as I do most days. From Penzance to

Newcastle and many areas in between. Probably a good move. Thank you. I'm

joined now by the Conservative MP, the Lib Dem MP Simon Hughes and

Sajid Javid. We want to see a European Union resolutely focused on

the single market, free trade, and only we can bring about that change.

Labour and Lib Dems are happy with the status quo, in fact they would

like more integration, and a UKIP party can not deliver the change.

Hilary Benn, at this stage positions usually romp home in European

elections and no party has gone on to form a government without winning

the European elections first. Now it suggests you could become second,

you haven't handled UKIP very well either. There is a lot of alienation

from politics around, globalisation has left some behind and people are

concerned about that but UKIP will not provide the answer. Nigel Farage

only talks about Europe. We are to hear it would not be in the

interests of British people to come out of Europe. We do want a season

change in Europe, for example we want longer periods when new member

states come in. We don't think child tax credits should be paid to

children not living in the UK, but Nigel Farage is also proposing to

charge us when we see the GP, to halve maternity pay, and he wants a

flat tax. UKIP is not the answer to the problems we face and we will

continue to campaign as we have done to show that we are putting forward

policies on energy prices, and in the end that is what people will

look for. Simon Hughes, you will be lucky to come forth. The voters

decide these things. Really? I never knew that. My response to the UKIP

question is that they get support because they have never been in

power, they are never likely. A bit like the way you used to never get

into power. I accept that, but now we are in government. The reality is

that laws made in Brussels, we make together by agreement, and it is the

case from the Commons figures that only seven out of 100 laws are made

in Brussels. Actually they have been shown not to be the only ones. 14

out of 100. If we were to come out of Europe, we would seriously

disadvantage our economics and the jobs... 3 million jobs depend on the

European Union. If the Conservatives comes third or even a poor second,

it will show that people don't really trust your promise about

European referendum. They have been there before, they don't trust you.

What we have already shown, despite being in coalition with Liberal

Democrats, we have shown progress on Europe, we have vetoed a European

treaty when people said we wouldn't, we have cut the European

budget which is something Liberal Democrats and Labour MEPs voted

against, we cut it by ?8 billion. But overall we are still paying

more. We have still cut it. We have taken Britain out of the bailout

fund that Labour signed us up to. We are now going to take that same

energy to Europe and renegotiate our relationship and let the British

people decide in a referendum. Why has Ed Miliband become such a

liability for your party? Even your own MPs are speaking out against

him. If you look at the polls, we have been in the lead almost

consistently. The voters will decide. Ed Miliband is a decent man,

but what really marks him out is that he is thinking about the

problems the country faces. Simon and Sajid both support the bedroom

tax, we will scrap it. Ed Miliband said the energy market doesn't work

for consumers, we will freeze energy prices while we change the system.

So why are his ratings even lower than Nick Clegg's? They will be

voted for next year in the general election, and if I were David

Cameron I would ask myself this question - the economy is

recovering, why is it that David Cameron and the Conservatives have

been behind in the polls? Because in the end the big choice in British

politics is between the two parties that say, if we sought the deficit

everything is fine, and Labour who say that there are things about this

country, the insecurity that has given rise for support for UKIP, and

we are the ones talking about doing something about zero hours

contracts. The more your leader bangs on about Europe, the worse

your poll ratings get. He is out of the kilter with British people. It

may not be a majority of people who think that we ought to stay in the

European Union, but when you speak to people about it, people

understand that we are better in them out. In the elections on

Thursday, that is not about who runs Britain, that is for next year. In

terms of the local councils, we have battles on the ground, like in my

community, where we are trying to take it back from the Labour Party.

Affordable housing has just not been delivered. We have delivered that in

office and we had admitted to that. -- we are committed to that. Labour

have actually demolished homes. So, people want more affordable homes.

One issue which is behind people's antipathy towards immigrants is that

they cannot get the affordable housing they need. We as a

government have delivered more affordable housing in this

Parliament -170,000 new properties earning and more, over the next

three years. That does not work out that very many per year. Overall

housing is a lot less than it was in 2006. Let me tell you, under the

Labour government, we lost nearly half a million affordable homes.

Fewer built than under Mrs Thatcher or under the coalition. What is your

last ditch message to the millions of Tory voters thinking of voting

UKIP on Thursday? First, what I would say is, Ed Miliband also said

that we should not tackle the deficit, it was not a priority. As a

result of our resolute focus, we now have the fastest growing economy in

the developed world, and more people employed than ever before. I am sure

you will have more chance to say that at the general election, what

is the answer to my question? We need a Europe which is focused on

free trade and the single market. Labour and Lib Dems are happy with

the status quo, we are not. We are the only party which can bring about

change, UKIP cannot bring about any change. Hilary Benn, why not have a

referendum on Europe? If you think like Nigel Farage that you should

get out of Europe, I do not agree with him, because Britain's future

lies in Europe. My message simply would be, vote for a party which

wants to tackle insecurity in the workplace, to give more security to

the 9 million people who are now privately renting, build more homes.

What Simon has just said about the coalition's housing record, it has

been appalling, the lowest level since Stanley Baldwin was Prime

Minister. With Labour, you have got a party which will freeze energy

prices, more childcare, policies which directly address the problems

which people face. I think the public will realise that. UKIP

offers absolutely nothing at all for the future of the country. You used

to be in favour of a referendum? We are in favour, we voted for one, we

have legislated for one. The next time there is a change between

Britain and Europe, in the relationship, there will be a

referendum. We have supported that. We voted for it. You would obviously

want to vote yes in any referendum. We would. But if you had one now, it

would be for coming out or staying in, and you are going to wait until

there is another step son shall transfer of powers to Brussels, and

then say to people, either vote for this substantial transfer or vote to

leave! Of course they will vote to leave! Yes, we are not natural

partners with the Conservatives, but we do not want to be distracted at

the moment by a referendum in the future in relation to Europe.

Because what we have done is built our own economy back. That has been

the priority. We do not want artificial priorities. The Tories

want an artificial date plucked out of the air for their own advantage.

We say, let's get on with being positive about being in Europe, and

many people on the doorstep absolutely understand that.

Yesterday, the Energy Minister said that he thought the party would be

willing to campaign for a British withdrawal from the EU if there was

not a successful negotiation, a successful repatriation, do you

agree with that? First of all, I am very optimistic... I got that I am

going into these negotiations with confidence but Michael Fallon is one

of your ministerial colleagues, he said that if we cannot get a deal on

substantial repatriation, then the party should be willing to campaign

for a British withdrawal - do you agree? My view is that I am

confident we will get a deal, and then we will put it to the British

people. But you will have to take a line. If you do not get substantial

repatriations, will you side with Michael Fallon all with the Prime

Minister, who seems to want to stay in regardless? I may only have been

in politics for four years, but I am not going to ask that kind of

hypothetical question. Every question I ask is hypothetical, that

is the fascination of the programme! I go into these negotiations with

complete confidence. If you look at our track record, it suggests we

will be successful. Hilary Benn, what is the difference between your

attitude and that of the Lib Dems towards a referendum? We have been

very clear that if it is proposed at sometime in the future, further

powers would be transferred, then, we would put that to the British

people in a referendum. That is the Lib Dem position. This is our

position, which I am planing to you. It would be an in-out referendum. We

would only agree to a transfer of powers if we thought that it was in

the interest of Britain. But we believe that Britain's place remains

and should remain in Europe, for economic reasons. But we also want

to see some changes in our relationship with Europe, and

electing Labour MEPs on Thursday will be a way of boosting that

argument. In what way is everything you have just said not entirely sell

my must with the Lib Dem position? I am not worried about that. --

entirely synonymous. It is the dividing line between us and UKIP,

because they somehow believe that Britain leaving the European Union

would be good for our economy. Truth is, it would be really bad, because

so many jobs depend on being part of a large market in an increasingly

globalised world. I have got one more question for you on the locals.

We seem to have lost our connection with Leeds. What is the single most

important reason that people should vote for you in the local election?

Because taxpayers' money is just that, it does not belong to the

politicians, and we can do a lot more and get more for less with

taxpayers money. If you look at Conservative councils up and down

the country, most of them have not been raising council tax, they have

been getting more for less, and that is what people deserve. We will

produce the maximum amount possible of affordable housing to meet the

housing needs of Britain, instead of the richest minority having flats

and houses that nobody can afford. We seem to have lost Hilary Benn. I

can answer for him. I will do it - he would certainly say, vote Labour.

You are watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

You're watching the Sunday Politics Sunday Politics Scotland.

You're watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.

Coming up today: With elections looming, we look at claims that

local Government is facing extinction, as town halls have less

money and fewer services to run. We'll be looking at the political

battle ground in our part of the world ahead of Thursday's vote. We

discuss what pointers it could tell us about the likely outcome of next

year's General Election. So let's say hello to our guests today. Keith

Wakefield is the Labour leader of Leeds City Council. Robert Light is

the Conservative group leader on Kirklees Council. And Jeanette

Sunderland is the Liberal Democrat group leader on Bradford Council.

Hello to you all. So what is the point of voting in the local

elections? Town halls have seen their budgets slashed and services

outsourced to private companies. So what's left for councils to run?

James Vincent reports on what some claim is a doomsday scenario for

local Government. Hands up if you want to strike. Care

workers in Doncaster are not happy with a private company looking after

elderly people, but giving council services to businesses or volunteers

is now a must. Leaked to Sunday Politics is a bit of paper from

Sheffield Anhalt. It has a dramatic title. `` Sheffield Town Hall.

The graph of doom. These bars show what Sheffield Council has to pay

for, looking after children and the elderly plus other running costs. At

the moment there is a gap between that and the amount of money it has

in total. It can afford to pay for perhaps less essential things, but

as we move forward, the amount of money we have is going down and

costs are growing. By 2018, Sheffield Council thinks the two

will meet, meaning there will be no money left to pay for those sorts of

services at all. money left to pay for those sorts

Something that will have an effect on the quality of the candidates we

are choosing between in this election. The challenges are immense

for the politicians. Not every seat in South Yorkshire is being

contested now. Why would people want to take a seat on a council to then

be responsible for butchering those councils' services? In Doncaster

they may have a brand`new theatre funded in better times, but the

council's Chief Executive is watching their budgets shrink by

half. The whole of the state is shrinking. For local Government the

cuts are on a level we haven't seen before. And they are worse in the

North than other places. So it is change bid `` beyond anything we

have seen. Leisure, the arts and parks have all

suffered. They are all things that could be handed to private companies

or volunteers. The Friends of Sandall Park group has been looking

after their part of Doncaster for eight years. But if the money runs

out for council maintenance, even they are not sure they can take

over. The Friends of Sandall Park enjoy what we are doing in the park,

but as soon as we `` if we suddenly found it felt like work, we would

not have the same enthusiasm. We have to have a real honest

conversation with people about what councils can and cannot do in the

future. No matter where you are, things staying as they are is not an

option for anybody. The problem is things staying as they are might be

the best case scenario. Local Government is probably

finished. We will see outsourcing through private companies, and also

a role for the third sector, the voluntary sector. So it will be

mixed and meant for the next few years, but the next General Election

will determine whether local governments have any future.

As the gap narrows and money runs out, whoever controls your local

council after the election might not feel like winners.

Keith, what is the point in voting in local elections when councils are

facing a diminishing power base? Many of us are facing severe cuts,

but although we go getting smaller in size, people still expect us to

play a leading role in providing the houses, making sure that they are

creating `` jobs are created, looking after our elderly and young,

so whatever the resources, people still look to local Government to

show leadership and compassion in their cities. Robert, town halls in

many areas now do not control schools because we have academies.

Libraries have been hived off to volunteers. What are you left with?

I think the challenge for councils, and I think that is where

Conservative councils have the ideas for the future, is to change town

halls so councils are different for the future, but they concentrate on

providing those central services like adult services and bin

collections, but then devolving power down to communities, and that

is what we want to do in Kirklees, we want to give power back so that

local people have a say over what happens in their communities. People

are fed up of central diktat from central Government and big pencils.

In the last local elections in Bradford, Jeanette, only one in

three voters bothered to take part. It is up to people like me to make

sure more people turn out and engage people in the issues around the

award. This is very much an opportunity for good quality people

to come into local Government. When I first got elected we were deciding

on which streets got the bins, which streets got grass cut, now it is

about tackling major public health issues, job creation, business rates

coming back to councils. This is a good opportunity for local

Government, and people who said local Government is finished, it is

yet to have its day. In Leeds you have 99 councillors. Free for every

ward. All on allowances. Is that I good use of public money? You

realise that in those wards there is up to 15 thousand to 20,000 people.

You need at least three to take on some of the problems people have, to

service those. We are also strategic, in that councillors also

run up to ?2 billion budgets. I can assure you, if we are doing what all

parties agree with, and evolving more power to make sure that we

survive these changes and threats, those councillors need to be more

rooted in their community, following through partnerships with health,

with the voluntary sector, with the private sector. That is the way

local Government is moving. Robert, Eric pickles has said the age of

austerity is here to stay. Town halls will have to tighten their

boats `` belts. Do you accept that? If you look at the commitments being

made by all the parties, it is not to give local Government any more

money in the next five years, but as local Government to come over to the

challenge and do things better, more effectively. Local Government has

been very successful in doing that in the last few years. We have

changed a lot of things, but we need to do more. Jeanette, the politics

lecturer at Sheffield Hallam University said we are seeing the

slow death of local Government. Wang holiday Monday I had 250 people

having a picnic protesting in a local park. These were people

getting active and having views about what the Council and

Government are doing. People actually, that of the stomata has

caused people to look around and say I want to get involved. ``

austerity. With four more days for the local council elections, Len

Tingle has been looking at the political battle for the big

metropolitan authorities in Western Yorkshire. He has also been sticking

some of the other party candidates. `` West and South Yorkshire.

When it comes to the local elections, Labour has been a bit

like a bull in a china shop. They have barged aside the Lib Dems and

the Tories in most of the councils that are up for election. A look at

the electoral map shows what has been happening. These are the four

local authorities in South Yorkshire, Barnsley, does ``

Barnsley, Doncaster, Sheffield and Rotherham. Labour and the Tories

barely have a toehold. West Yorkshire has seen a similar

movement. Labour is in full control in Leeds, but the competition will

be in the remaining three councils, Labour goes into Bradford just two

seats short of a majority. In Kirklees, three seats short. In

Calderdale, five short. The other parties are now trying hard to stop

them crossing that line. parties are now trying hard to stop

Labour, Lib Dems and Tories are facing a big challenge this time

around from minor parties. The UK Independence Party won its first

ever seen here in Rotherham at a by`election last year. This time

around it is putting up 148 candidates across our region. The

Greens in those councils of four election already have nine

councillors. They are fielding 110 candidates. From the left, the trade

union organisation TUSC is fielding 51 candidates.

How do the biggest of those minor parties fancy their charges ``

chances? Sarah Jane Smalley is standing for

the Greens. You are `` you have almost made a

breakthrough on several occasions, but you really have only a handful

of councillors. `` councils. We have councillors across the region, and I

think even though people might have protest voted at first we turned

protest votes into positive odds. Once people know what our policies

are, they are presently supplies. `` surprised. `` pleasantly surprised.

Your record is not much different from the Greens. You have looked as

though you are going to make breakthroughs, but you have only had

one win right across Yorkshire. We have lots of good policies. We

want to bring Britain back to Britain. But in this area, as main

opposition, as Labour, so we have to break into their stronghold.

Sarah Jane Smalley, some of the Greens propose policies will cost

money. Can you afford them, given that local authorities are being

squeezed? If you look at `` they have managed to keep their

children's centres open and raced GCS even results and had a lot of

positive results. They are a local council that has had their Budget

cut. It is just about how you go about doing it.

Do you have the policies to be able to run a council? I found it

difficult to work out what your policies are, your party leader

ripped up the manifest of the 2015. Can you run a council's `` the

manifesto. I have been elected now barely 12 months. Next Thursday will

be the divisive `` will tell us whether I have succeeded, but the

word on the street is we are going to get more councillors. We must be

doing something right. We do engage with the people, that is one thing

we do do. From your point of view, what would

be the mark of success in these elections? It is about carrying on

making steady gains in the region. I am on the street every day, and I

have never ever in the 20 years of being in politics, had the feedback

I'm getting now from the people on the street. They have had enough.

Labour and the other main parties have totally betrayed their trust.

Robert, if Labour may gains on Thursday in those big metropolitan

West Yorkshire councils, David Cameron can kiss goodbye to any hope

of winning next year's General Election. He will struggle to hold

those West Yorkshire margins. Absolutely not. I don't think Labour

will make gains because people are saying there is an alternative out

there to the doom mongers of the Labour Party. Conservatives have a

positive message about how our councils can be run for the better

of the people. In terms of linking that the General Election, this

Government has done a fantastic job of turning the economy around and we

are now seeing the benefits of that. There are now 30 million people in

work in this country, record levels. I don't think Keith is convinced. It

sounded like something from the headquarters `` the evidence is that

they have had a raft deal in the North in the grants and the economy.

There is no economic strategy. A lot of Labour councillors are focused on

trying to create jobs, introduce apprenticeships, because people are

being hit hard. I do a lot of doorknocking on the cost of living.

They have seen utility prices going up, the cost of living `` yes, the

are more jobs, but we are getting more and more zero hours, low wage,

so they are not feeling the benefits of this so`called great economic

recovery. Jeanette, are the Lib Dems going to get hammered again because

of the policies of your Lib Dem Government? No, I think there is a

lot of uncertainty out there now. I became elected when we had 70 Labour

councils `` councillors. There was a complacency about it. What I am

finding on the doorstep, where Lib Dems have been working with

communities and campaigning with communities, that food's coming out

for the Lib Dems this time. In other areas, people are challenging. ``

that food is coming out. I have never heard of the term macro one

people, `` TUSC. When the political parties themselves, I have received

a letter from a voter from Labour, and it only talks about national

politics. There is nothing about the community this individual is

purporting to represent. Some polls are given the

Conservatives a small lead over Labour. That is not a huge vote of

confidence. All I found this year is that the opinion polls fluctuate.

Obviously this week when we are merging local with European, which

doesn't give local Government a fair chance, is that you get opinion

polls that will change to buy day. I am pretty confident that the Labour

vote in the North will grow, I am also confident despite what my two

colleagues have said, but we will make gains in those authorities like

Radford and Leeds and Kirklees, and I think what the message is ``

Bradford. We are still 12 months. A long way to go. We have started to

come up with policies that start to resonate with the local electorate,

and I'm confident that steady build to lead will come about.

Let me mention, Robert, the dispute between Conservatives and Lib Dems

over free schools. I run the David Cameron coming to West Yorkshire, he

stood alongside you when you are trying to get a free school in

Kirklees. Is it something you still believe in? Absolutely, the

importance of a diverse provision of schools is crucial for the future.

Children need a proper future. They need in indication that will give

them the opportunity to excel in all of the talents. `` education. Having

had the opportunity to create a diverse range of skills is really

important. All parties have played some role in this, we are creating a

different range of schools, and we have seen a difference not just in

the results but actually in the better rounded education that young

people are getting today. Why don't the Lib Dems like free schools? If

free schools and academies are the big model and the big success story,

just make every school free school or an academy. But we cling on to

the state schools and they have taken `` the Government has taken

money from state schools and handed it over to academies and free

schools. I'm not against a different economy for schools, because what

makes a good school is good leadership, and what `` regardless

of the governance of the school. This is a debate I'm sure we'll come

back to add some stage. But let's get some more of the week's

political news now ` Louise Martin has our round`up in 60 seconds.

get some more One of Yorkshire's UKIP Euro

election candidates, Amjad Bashir, has faced claims of hypocrisy after

it emerged seven people were arrested for immigration offences in

a raid on his restaurant in Manchester last year. Mr Bashir has

denied any wrongdoing. Yorkshire has the second`highest

unemployment of all the regions in the UK, at 8.3%, down 10,000

compared to the previous quarter of 230,000.

And the Labour MP for Great Grimsby, Austin Mitchell, has refused to

apologise for comparing a US pharmaceutical company to a rapist,

over its takeover of a UK rival. The minister for Women, Nicky Morgan,

has described the tweet as deeply offensive, and called for the Labour

leader Ed Miliband to take action. Ed Miliband has to take control and

make Austin Mitchell apologise. One of the definitions of "rape" in the

Oxford English Dictionary is "to plunder", and that I fear is what is

going to happen to AstraZeneca at the hands of Pfizer.

Keith, unemployment is down in Yorkshire. Is it difficult for

Labour, campaigning against the back drop of good economic news? I am a

bit of an anorak on the economy, and a lot of that growth is in London

and the South East. We are turning around slowly in West Yorkshire, and

there is a lot of work to do with the authorities working together.

But what has happened is there is a lot of new part`time jobs, low`wage

jobs, and zero our jobs, and what we really need are quality jobs to give

people a proper career and a proper job and proper future. And sadly a

lot of young people are not really confident that is what they are

seeing are witnessing. Robert, unemployment in Yorkshire and the

Humber region is 8.3%. Are we seeing growth happening in `` faster than?

We have to grow on similar levels to the south`east London, and that is

what the importance of what the Government has been doing, rating

combined authorities to drive the economy in local authority areas,

putting investment into the North and making sure that the right

economic climate is therefore growth. What we have seen is that

the economy now has been something that has been growing steadily, but

it is most starting to move even faster than anywhere else in Europe.

But will make a dent `` big difference to everybody. Now that

the indicators are taking over `` turning over in a positive form, we

are seeing the benefits even in Yorkshire. Jeanette, what did you

think of Austin Mitchell's comments? He could have used the word plunder.

I have worked for an American corporation that was taken over, and

the word could be plunder. Rape is an emotive word, and it is `` he

chose the wrong word. Was this an embarrassment to add Miliband? It

just shows you have two be careful when you use social media that you

should think. It is `` Jeanette is right, it is the wrong metaphor, but

it is certainly an issue that we are very concerned about, the way that

Pfizer are being allowed to come in and take over some of our research

and development. I am pretty sure the conversation will lead to some

amendment to that statement. But whether Conservatives right to try

and make political capital out of it? He shouldn't have said it. It

was a totally inappropriate comment. Everybody sells close to the wind

occasionally, but this is an offensive statement. Nicky Morgan

was absolutely right. Thank you, Keith Wakefield, Robert

Light and Jeanette Sunderland. Welcome back. Politicians always

insist in public that opinion polls do not matter. Even though their own

parties each spend a small fortune on private polling. If they take

them seriously, so do we! Let's take a closer look. First up, how the

votes might fall for the European Parliament. Back in January, Labour

looked set to finish first. By April, UKIP had edged into the lead.

According to today's poles, Nigel Farage's party is either down into

place, or has soared ahead. Both cannot be right. It is a similar

picture for the general election. Labour's lead has been cut back by

the Tories. This is the most unpredictable general election in a

long time. It keeps us in a job! We are joined now by the managing

director of the pollsters, ComRes. Welcome to the programme. While the

polls all over the place on the European election? We are trying to

do two things, figure out who is going to be voting, and how they are

going to be voting. I think a lot of the polls are predicting quite high

turnout. They are looking at more than 50% turnout, which is simply

not can be the case. So, what we are doing is predicting it based on

those who are ten out of ten, certain to vote, and it really

benefits UKIP, it benefits them democratically, demographically,

with the older age profile, who are going to vote. Another poll gives

them only a one-point lead, so, come the results coming out, you are

either going to look away ahead of your time or very stupid?

Absolutely. That is the job of pollsters. Somebody has to be wrong.

Ultimately, we were spot on in 2009, and we are hoping to be spot on on

Thursday. So you were spot on on voting intention in 2009? Yes. What

does the indications of what is now a four party system mean, does it

change the nature of your methods? It changes how we look at the polls,

how we look at what is going to happen as a result of the vote.

Predicting the number of seats is becoming more and more important and

more difficult to do, because distribution is becoming

fundamentally important. Because it is for parties? That's right. . Does

the polling give us any evidence to try to settle the matter of whether

UKIP votes are coming from? Yes. We know that over 50% of the UKIP vote

share is coming from the Conservatives come people who did

vote Conservative in 2010. But actually, the other 50% is coming

from a wide range of different sources. And what we are seeing is

that ultimately, every single establishment party should be

worried, because the people voting for UKIP are the people that really

do not like politics at the moment. They are wanting people to speak on

their behalf, so it affects all of them. There is evidence that there

is now a move of some working-class Labour votes to UKIP as well? That's

right. That is what I mean about the establishment vote, the people that

they can really reach out to, who are really interested in things like

immigration, in those single issues, where they do not feel the political

parties of the mainstream are representing them. I would suggest

that for the European elections, where turnout is low, ComRes may be

right or wrong, but likely to vote would seem to be the yardstick. I

would say that is true in almost any European election apart from this

one. Because there has been so much attention on this election, because

of UKIP and the probably do that they will win second, I wonder

whether it is now such a big topic of conversation, the subject of

Nigel Farage, that people who would otherwise talk a good game about

voting UKIP but do not show up on the day are this time around likely

to show up on the day? I am not entirely convinced by that. We

underestimate how many people are completely disengaged by politics. I

think it is very easy for us to think, and I agree that by any other

standards, this is the most coverage a European election has ever had in

Britain, but still, most people don't care. Instinctively, Nick, you

would think, if you are a UKIP photo, if you have made that choice,

then you would probably be more motivated to go and vote on

Thursday? I am sure that is right. Also, the publicity that Nigel

Farage has had. And also, as Catherine says, people are attracted

to UKIP because they are annoyed with the established parties. If you

have made that big decision to do it, then you will probably do it.

The really big question which we want to take out of these elections

is, how many people who have left the established parties, left the

Conservative Party, in these elections on Thursday, how many of

them will stick with UKIP and how many of them will go back? Nigel

Farage is very confident, he is saying that 60% of those certain to

vote UKIP will stick with UKIP. If that happens, it is a real problem

for Downing Street. Downing Street are basically saying that many

Tories will have a fling with UKIP but they will return to the marital

home next year. You do two sorts of polling, for the European elections,

and for the general election, which may be more relevant to the local

election voters, but what is the answer to his question? We do not

know at the moment. We when you ask people how likely they are to vote

in the same way, they are thinking that actually, I am going to vote in

exactly the same way at the general election, they are not going to say,

I am going to split my vote. I think the key point is, what happens in

the Euros. We have a fixed term parliament, which means momentum is

crucial. What comes out of the Euros will be a statement about how well

UKIP can last for the next year, or indeed, if it comes second, it is

about momentum and feeling about the parties. I do not think we can tell

yet. If UKIP does well, there could be some leadership crises we will

have to cover. I want to look at a couple of the headlines on the

screen. Now, it seems, as you can see from the Mail, Mr Miliband could

be in some trouble. The Labour MP for Rochdale talking about the

mantra of misery which is Labour's policy is not going down well. And

there are also rumbles about, if Mr Clegg comes fourth or even fifth in

the European elections, that there will be a plot to remove him. There

are not many names behind that plot yet, but Vince Cable does get an

honourable mention! Not that he is plotting, but he could take over! If

Labour comes a poor second, and the Tories are third, and Nick Clegg is

nowhere, there is a Clevedon-Miliband agenda, isn't

there? It will be very different for each man. The worst thing that could

happen to Labour is if Nick Clegg loses his job, because he will be

replaced by somebody substantially to the left of him, you would have

to assume, someone like Tim Farron. I think it is unlikely that David

Laws Danny Alexander, the two prominent figures who are to the

right of him, would win the leadership. If it is someone who is

quite a way to the left of Nick Clegg, then some voters might find

the party a more attractive proposition. Which is why the Tories

want to hold on to Nick Clegg. Absolutely. But I think you are

right, there is a really big bubble for Ed Miliband here. The second big

thing, I do not know if you saw the photo opportunity this week, Boris

Johnson strolling through a garden with David Cameron, they got off the

chew one-stop early just to appreciate the spring sunshine. But

where are the shadow cabinet? I hear rumours of a politician called

Yvette Cooper, but I do not know what she has been up to recently.

And Rachel Reeves and Andy Burnham, all of these big hitters are not

lashing themselves to the mast of the Labour election campaign. And

some of these big hitters are immensely talented, Rachel Reeves,

Chuka Umunna, these guys are really talented. You get the impression

that they are watching this as you say and biding their time. Ed

Miliband has bet the farm on this calculation that there has been this

rupture between the rise in wages and the rise in inflation, although

that is now beginning to slow. The calculation he is making is that in

the 2012 presidential election, Mitt Romney was ahead on many of the

economic indicators, but Barack Obama won because he said, I am on

your side. He has bet the farm on that. But there is a big difference

between Miliband and Barack Obama, which is that Barack Obama was

elected in 2008 after the crash, so everything he did was about rescue.

The problem for Ed Miliband and Ed Balls is that they were in power

when the crash happened, so it is difficult to make that comparison.

Labour is nip and tuck with the Tories, or ahead by a small amount -

Mr Miliband's personal ratings are much worse than what David

Cameron's were at the same stage in the political cycle, does that

matter? I think personal ratings do matter, particularly if things like

Ukraine gained more prominence in the media. It is a question of who

you want as your statesman. But on the economy specifically, actually,

the economic ratings in terms of confidence in the leader has not

changed. That has not changed for years now. It is pretty stable.

Actually, the narrowing of the polls could be due to the usual narrowing

about 12 months out from the election, and Labour really need to

use the momentum. Thank you for that. Plenty to talk about after you

all go to the polls on Thursday. There will be tonnes of election

coverage and results on the BBC, Thursday night, Friday, and of

course, Sunday night, when the European results come out. Daily

Politics is back on BBC Two tomorrow lunchtime. I will be back here next

Sunday at 11 o'clock as usual for The Sunday Politics. Remember, if it

is Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.

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