22/01/2017 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire


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22/01/2017

Andrew Neil, Tim Iredale and shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump.


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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:37.:00:39.

Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US

:00:40.:00:42.

President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very

:00:43.:00:45.

frank" conversations with the new and controversial

:00:46.:00:48.

Speaking of the 45th President of America,

:00:49.:00:55.

we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold

:00:56.:00:58.

in store for Britain and the rest of the world.

:00:59.:01:04.

And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should

:01:05.:01:07.

have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask

:01:08.:01:10.

Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next.

:01:11.:01:16.

Will Yorkshire and Lincolnshire need to punch above its weight

:01:17.:01:19.

to attract Northern Powerhouse investment,

:01:20.:01:21.

with no plans for any elected mayors this year?

:01:22.:01:34.

And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three

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journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be

:01:38.:01:40.

relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -

:01:41.:01:43.

and their willingness to come to the studio

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It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer

:01:48.:01:53.

and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be

:01:54.:01:59.

tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle

:02:00.:02:03.

So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.

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She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,

:02:14.:02:15.

but she was also asked about a story on the front of this

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It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired

:02:19.:02:22.

from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June

:02:23.:02:28.

The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons

:02:29.:02:37.

Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking

:02:38.:02:41.

The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons

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It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,

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whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.

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That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.

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That's what the House of Commons voted for.

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He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent

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There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,

:03:05.:03:11.

What we were talking about in that debate that took place...

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I'm not going to get an answer to this.

:03:21.:03:27.

Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the

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front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister

:03:35.:03:38.

wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but

:03:39.:03:44.

the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all

:03:45.:03:47.

questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.

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Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You

:03:56.:04:02.

read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr

:04:03.:04:07.

four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went

:04:08.:04:11.

into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion

:04:12.:04:17.

replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it

:04:18.:04:21.

have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.

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If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are

:04:28.:04:32.

matters of national security. There's nothing more important in

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that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.

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End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a

:04:43.:04:47.

good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she

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is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,

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and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know

:04:58.:05:02.

and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider

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point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,

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suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,

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because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.

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But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent

:05:24.:05:28.

awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the

:05:29.:05:34.

missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her

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comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often

:05:39.:05:43.

struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and

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we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the

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missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.

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What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests

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they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles

:06:03.:06:10.

work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have

:06:11.:06:18.

known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job

:06:19.:06:23.

on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some

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would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people

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from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by

:06:36.:06:40.

mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing

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as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are

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going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime

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Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on

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Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If

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anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!

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So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing

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to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th

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President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.

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Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -

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instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering

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attack on the dark state of the nation and the political

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class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach

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from the campaign trail to the White House.

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Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how

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First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange

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Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched

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I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...

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The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,

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the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.

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From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.

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In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.

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Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.

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The President, who'd criticised the work of

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the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.

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There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community

:08:53.:08:55.

And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled

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the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.

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So, as you heard there, President Trump used his

:09:14.:09:20.

inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"

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in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect

:09:23.:09:25.

He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and

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American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key

:09:42.:09:45.

parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care

:09:46.:09:50.

act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global

:09:51.:09:55.

warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate

:09:56.:10:00.

Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would

:10:01.:10:05.

restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also

:10:06.:10:10.

said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with

:10:11.:10:15.

threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a

:10:16.:10:20.

bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and

:10:21.:10:25.

order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building

:10:26.:10:30.

the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the

:10:31.:10:36.

first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who

:10:37.:10:39.

is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -

:10:40.:10:42.

he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's

:10:43.:10:45.

choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's

:10:46.:10:47.

just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -

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he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I

:10:50.:11:00.

made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval

:11:01.:11:07.

office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union

:11:08.:11:10.

integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,

:11:11.:11:17.

a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime

:11:18.:11:22.

Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,

:11:23.:11:26.

the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.

:11:27.:11:31.

Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an

:11:32.:11:36.

act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be

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oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral

:11:43.:11:53.

or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone

:11:54.:11:58.

in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the

:11:59.:12:04.

unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing

:12:05.:12:08.

called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,

:12:09.:12:16.

creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These

:12:17.:12:25.

institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was

:12:26.:12:29.

at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and

:12:30.:12:33.

prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When

:12:34.:12:39.

something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the

:12:40.:12:42.

consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new

:12:43.:12:46.

president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that

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so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and

:12:54.:12:57.

institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has

:12:58.:13:05.

argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more

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involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process

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with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama

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stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the

:13:25.:13:29.

world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers

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have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That

:13:34.:13:39.

power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are

:13:40.:13:43.

foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself

:13:44.:13:49.

around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some

:13:50.:13:53.

may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,

:13:54.:13:59.

and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald

:14:00.:14:04.

Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be

:14:05.:14:07.

more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are

:14:08.:14:13.

tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are

:14:14.:14:17.

still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr

:14:18.:14:22.

Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that

:14:23.:14:31.

clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe

:14:32.:14:39.

in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral

:14:40.:14:43.

relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a

:14:44.:14:49.

president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly

:14:50.:14:55.

critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary

:14:56.:14:59.

of State, national security, do you think that will temper this

:15:00.:15:04.

anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?

:15:05.:15:11.

I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world

:15:12.:15:17.

will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of

:15:18.:15:21.

State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge

:15:22.:15:27.

him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most

:15:28.:15:32.

successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is

:15:33.:15:38.

already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means

:15:39.:15:42.

you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these

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institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of

:15:50.:15:52.

millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about

:15:53.:15:55.

is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such

:15:56.:16:04.

an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian

:16:05.:16:13.

tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.

:16:14.:16:17.

The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he

:16:18.:16:22.

said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in

:16:23.:16:26.

front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the

:16:27.:16:30.

solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That

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emphasis is going to change American life, including American

:16:35.:16:37.

International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't

:16:38.:16:46.

mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our

:16:47.:16:51.

national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's

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inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the

:16:56.:17:01.

White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a

:17:02.:17:03.

difference there. He also said something else in the address - that

:17:04.:17:09.

protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is

:17:10.:17:17.

no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting

:17:18.:17:22.

the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually

:17:23.:17:25.

think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If

:17:26.:17:32.

you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican

:17:33.:17:38.

senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover

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administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see

:17:48.:17:52.

how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is

:17:53.:17:55.

a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in

:17:56.:18:01.

bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's

:18:02.:18:06.

also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this

:18:07.:18:13.

election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history

:18:14.:18:19.

and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a

:18:20.:18:27.

mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more

:18:28.:18:31.

trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the

:18:32.:18:36.

world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's

:18:37.:18:39.

leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great

:18:40.:18:44.

businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is

:18:45.:18:49.

debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from

:18:50.:18:54.

the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to

:18:55.:18:58.

reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both

:18:59.:19:04.

lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will

:19:05.:19:08.

walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese

:19:09.:19:12.

from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do

:19:13.:19:16.

that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war

:19:17.:19:21.

between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most

:19:22.:19:25.

important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't

:19:26.:19:29.

lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when

:19:30.:19:33.

you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China

:19:34.:19:38.

the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and

:19:39.:19:55.

Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.

:19:56.:20:00.

Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he

:20:01.:20:06.

hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to

:20:07.:20:14.

him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting

:20:15.:20:17.

a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is

:20:18.:20:21.

why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United

:20:22.:20:27.

States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point

:20:28.:20:33.

of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern

:20:34.:20:36.

Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned

:20:37.:20:40.

to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat

:20:41.:20:46.

economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think

:20:47.:20:54.

Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown

:20:55.:20:58.

herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in

:20:59.:21:03.

Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of

:21:04.:21:07.

the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about

:21:08.:21:12.

dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has

:21:13.:21:17.

another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the

:21:18.:21:23.

American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,

:21:24.:21:26.

including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find

:21:27.:21:32.

anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more

:21:33.:21:36.

important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like

:21:37.:21:40.

preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese

:21:41.:21:43.

and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear

:21:44.:21:50.

deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff

:21:51.:21:55.

and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we

:21:56.:21:59.

are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving

:22:00.:22:03.

into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that

:22:04.:22:07.

ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his

:22:08.:22:15.

inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he

:22:16.:22:17.

didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They

:22:18.:22:24.

are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's

:22:25.:22:28.

easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the

:22:29.:22:34.

United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things

:22:35.:22:38.

that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of

:22:39.:22:46.

State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful

:22:47.:22:49.

creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming

:22:50.:22:54.

and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to

:22:55.:22:57.

create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final

:22:58.:23:03.

word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up

:23:04.:23:07.

America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things

:23:08.:23:12.

that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.

:23:13.:23:17.

His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's

:23:18.:23:21.

abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going

:23:22.:23:30.

to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that

:23:31.:23:35.

realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked

:23:36.:23:38.

on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90

:23:39.:23:45.

days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.

:23:46.:23:50.

Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.

:23:51.:23:53.

So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -

:23:54.:23:57.

perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer

:23:58.:23:59.

claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit

:24:00.:24:01.

wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.

:24:02.:24:04.

To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -

:24:05.:24:06.

to her opponents it was full of contradictions

:24:07.:24:08.

Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how

:24:09.:24:12.

There are speeches, and there are speeches.

:24:13.:24:17.

Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading

:24:18.:24:21.

to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms

:24:22.:24:24.

This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade

:24:25.:24:27.

in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.

:24:28.:24:30.

It should give British companies the maximum

:24:31.:24:35.

operate within European markets and let European businesses do

:24:36.:24:39.

She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,

:24:40.:24:47.

We want to test what people think about what she's just said.

:24:48.:25:03.

Do we have any of our future negotiating

:25:04.:25:05.

As the European Parliament voted for its new

:25:06.:25:10.

president, its chief negotiator sounded off.

:25:11.:25:17.

Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept

:25:18.:25:19.

it, we're going to make from Britain a sort

:25:20.:25:22.

of free zone or tax haven, I

:25:23.:25:25.

The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's

:25:26.:25:32.

rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.

:25:33.:25:34.

We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but

:25:35.:25:39.

that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.

:25:40.:25:48.

Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic

:25:49.:25:51.

leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?

:25:52.:25:56.

The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.

:25:57.:25:59.

For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.

:26:00.:26:03.

I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming

:26:04.:26:06.

an independent country again, with control of our own laws,

:26:07.:26:09.

I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because

:26:10.:26:15.

There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and

:26:16.:26:19.

Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?

:26:20.:26:24.

There will, at the end of this deal process,

:26:25.:26:26.

so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but

:26:27.:26:29.

We take the view as Liberal Democrats that

:26:30.:26:33.

if this process started with democracy last June,

:26:34.:26:34.

We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them

:26:35.:26:39.

Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all

:26:40.:26:45.

watching it in a small room somewhere?

:26:46.:26:47.

Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that

:26:48.:26:55.

somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal

:26:56.:26:57.

with the European Union didn't work, we would move

:26:58.:26:59.

into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the

:27:00.:27:01.

I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what

:27:02.:27:05.

The Labour leader suggested he'd tell

:27:06.:27:12.

his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if

:27:13.:27:15.

Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among

:27:16.:27:18.

Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?

:27:19.:27:24.

Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic

:27:25.:27:32.

Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been

:27:33.:27:43.

anticipating since the referendum result,

:27:44.:27:44.

particularly around the

:27:45.:27:45.

I think what we've also seen today is the Government's

:27:46.:27:50.

willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I

:27:51.:27:53.

Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you

:27:54.:27:57.

have to be pretty tough to get what you want.

:27:58.:28:00.

Although some business people on the slopes speculated

:28:01.:28:02.

about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.

:28:03.:28:04.

We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,

:28:05.:28:22.

but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit

:28:23.:28:25.

Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.

:28:26.:28:29.

People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are

:28:30.:28:38.

four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the

:28:39.:28:43.

referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that

:28:44.:28:47.

nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't

:28:48.:28:50.

have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,

:28:51.:28:55.

millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.

:28:56.:28:58.

However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to

:28:59.:29:05.

parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the

:29:06.:29:10.

triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is

:29:11.:29:14.

what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our

:29:15.:29:21.

policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We

:29:22.:29:26.

don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what

:29:27.:29:31.

legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what

:29:32.:29:35.

amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block

:29:36.:29:41.

it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we

:29:42.:29:49.

will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are

:29:50.:29:53.

too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU

:29:54.:29:57.

migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer

:29:58.:30:01.

to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would

:30:02.:30:06.

you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how

:30:07.:30:11.

we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the

:30:12.:30:14.

Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those

:30:15.:30:18.

amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain

:30:19.:30:22.

whether they voted to leave remain want answered.

:30:23.:30:27.

When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I

:30:28.:30:36.

can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.

:30:37.:30:40.

But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard

:30:41.:30:46.

this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on

:30:47.:30:52.

Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead

:30:53.:30:57.

of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,

:30:58.:31:01.

when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the

:31:02.:31:05.

whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip

:31:06.:31:12.

on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote

:31:13.:31:18.

that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against

:31:19.:31:23.

it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a

:31:24.:31:28.

three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember

:31:29.:31:34.

when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these

:31:35.:31:38.

Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just

:31:39.:31:44.

another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds

:31:45.:31:56.

voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country

:31:57.:32:01.

and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous

:32:02.:32:07.

a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a

:32:08.:32:16.

three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you

:32:17.:32:21.

believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think

:32:22.:32:27.

that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.

:32:28.:32:32.

What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her

:32:33.:32:38.

priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should

:32:39.:32:44.

remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the

:32:45.:32:49.

economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is

:32:50.:32:54.

Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?

:32:55.:32:59.

Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they

:33:00.:33:02.

come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to

:33:03.:33:10.

remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,

:33:11.:33:17.

ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the

:33:18.:33:21.

jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.

:33:22.:33:28.

Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.

:33:29.:33:33.

Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has

:33:34.:33:42.

made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's

:33:43.:33:49.

position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that

:33:50.:33:55.

you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,

:33:56.:33:59.

including being a member of the single market, without

:34:00.:34:02.

responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,

:34:03.:34:06.

is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is

:34:07.:34:14.

that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a

:34:15.:34:19.

member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.

:34:20.:34:24.

Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting

:34:25.:34:30.

negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it

:34:31.:34:35.

Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,

:34:36.:34:44.

if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has

:34:45.:34:54.

unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!

:34:55.:35:03.

It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it

:35:04.:35:08.

Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's

:35:09.:35:15.

position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how

:35:16.:35:18.

the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs

:35:19.:35:23.

union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove

:35:24.:35:29.

catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do

:35:30.:35:35.

accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own

:35:36.:35:42.

free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The

:35:43.:35:48.

ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to

:35:49.:35:53.

protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about

:35:54.:35:57.

free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will

:35:58.:36:02.

get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the

:36:03.:36:09.

NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If

:36:10.:36:14.

she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the

:36:15.:36:19.

customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for

:36:20.:36:24.

Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.

:36:25.:36:30.

I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating

:36:31.:36:39.

that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would

:36:40.:36:43.

that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,

:36:44.:36:47.

so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.

:36:48.:36:50.

You're watching the Sunday Politics.

:36:51.:36:52.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:36:53.:36:54.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,

:36:55.:36:57.

when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James

:36:58.:37:00.

about the government's new industrial strategy and that

:37:01.:37:02.

crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.

:37:03.:37:05.

First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are.

:37:06.:37:09.

Hello, you're watching the Sunday Politics for Yorkshire and

:37:10.:37:12.

Lincolnshire. Coming up today:

:37:13.:37:13.

With hopes for elected mayors on the ropes

:37:14.:37:17.

how will the region fight for its fair share

:37:18.:37:20.

We've seen no investment within Knottingley for as long as I

:37:21.:37:28.

can remember, now, you know, there's just a decline, decline

:37:29.:37:32.

And is President Trump a winner or a wazzock?

:37:33.:37:38.

We've been to Lincolnshire to find out if a local

:37:39.:37:41.

Our guests today are Clive Betts, Labour MP for Sheffield South-east,

:37:42.:37:54.

and and Andrew Percy, Conservative MP for Brigg and Gould,

:37:55.:37:56.

who is also the Northern Powerhouse Minister.

:37:57.:37:59.

It's the first time you've come back to us

:38:00.:38:04.

Is yours a world now of chauffeur driven

:38:05.:38:07.

limos, flunkies, ambassadors receptions?

:38:08.:38:10.

I mean, Ferrero Rocher are just everywhere.

:38:11.:38:11.

Don't give us the product placement! If only that was the case.

:38:12.:38:16.

No, but it's an interesting role I've taken on, and

:38:17.:38:18.

I particularly like the local focus, I get to announce a lot of

:38:19.:38:21.

investment in our area and am also lucky because Clive is our selective

:38:22.:38:26.

chairman who keeps us in line and scrutinises us,

:38:27.:38:29.

so it's a Yorkshire Minister getting scrutinised...

:38:30.:38:32.

Or a Yorkshire and Lincolnshire Minister

:38:33.:38:34.

getting scrutinised by a Yorkshire Labour MP, so that's good.

:38:35.:38:37.

Clive Betts, do you think people you represent, do you think they

:38:38.:38:43.

understand this concept of the Northern Powerhouse?

:38:44.:38:45.

probably not.

:38:46.:38:46.

I mean, I think it's a name they may have heard about, they're

:38:47.:38:49.

not sure what it means, what it's going to change.

:38:50.:38:52.

In the end what matters to them is not whether there

:38:53.:38:55.

is a minister with that title or even whether there is a mayor

:38:56.:38:58.

elected to do the work, it's whether there's more jobs,

:38:59.:39:00.

whether their wages and conditions are better,

:39:01.:39:02.

whether transport's better, where there are more skills programmes.

:39:03.:39:04.

They are the things that really matter to people

:39:05.:39:07.

see those come to fruition of course.

:39:08.:39:09.

Well, we'll talk about some of those things in a moment but of

:39:10.:39:12.

course it was David Cameron and George

:39:13.:39:14.

course it was David Cameron and George Osborne's big project,

:39:15.:39:17.

A proposal that would attract investment, boost the

:39:18.:39:19.

economy and enable big northern cities to rival the success of

:39:20.:39:25.

On the other side of the Pennines are

:39:26.:39:27.

Manchester and Liverpool, electing their own Metro mayors this

:39:28.:39:30.

year, securing millions of extra government money, but with no such

:39:31.:39:32.

elections in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire this year, how will we

:39:33.:39:35.

fight our corner? Here's Richard Edwards.

:39:36.:39:40.

and people here are used to fighting their corner.

:39:41.:39:45.

Out in the town, though, it's been a bruising 12 months

:39:46.:39:48.

For more than three years the government has been

:39:49.:39:54.

talking about giving the economy a bit more push by setting up

:39:55.:39:57.

something called a Northern Powerhouse.

:39:58.:39:59.

But for parents and coaches at the boxing club in the

:40:00.:40:04.

Miners' Welfare, it's an idea that has yet to hit home.

:40:05.:40:07.

If I was to say to you the words Northern Powerhouse,

:40:08.:40:12.

To be honest it's a term, I've never heard of it,

:40:13.:40:16.

I've never heard of it at all until tonight.

:40:17.:40:19.

So if I was to say to you there's been a big push by the

:40:20.:40:23.

government, it began under the Cameron Osborne

:40:24.:40:25.

governments to boost the

:40:26.:40:28.

I think I've never heard of it, I've never heard

:40:29.:40:31.

of it before as I say, I've never seen any finances come in this

:40:32.:40:35.

Club Steward Paul Green has heard of the powerhouse plan,

:40:36.:40:38.

but wants politicians to call time on the talking and get

:40:39.:40:41.

We've seen no investment within Knottingley for as long as I

:40:42.:40:45.

can remember, now, you know, there's just a decline, decline,

:40:46.:40:48.

People here have been hit by a series of body blows.

:40:49.:40:55.

Ferrybridge C power station has gone,

:40:56.:40:57.

And council cuts are beginning to bite as the local pool

:40:58.:41:01.

So do business leaders feel a bit brighter about the powerhouse plans

:41:02.:41:08.

to help hard-hit areas by building and linking

:41:09.:41:11.

It is that if you get the rail system working

:41:12.:41:20.

better and you get conductivity with the road and with other public

:41:21.:41:23.

transport services and the whole system works better, and that's not

:41:24.:41:32.

just good for you and I, getting to work, also from an external

:41:33.:41:35.

business investment point of view, that starts to make this area look

:41:36.:41:38.

like a compelling place to put a new business in.

:41:39.:41:41.

30 miles down the road in Doncaster, it's said the

:41:42.:41:43.

This building will be home to a national college

:41:44.:41:53.

This building will be home to a national college which will supply

:41:54.:41:56.

engineers for the planned high-speed rail link between London and

:41:57.:41:58.

The size of the investment that is behind us, you

:41:59.:42:02.

can see, and the numbers of the guys that we are putting through the

:42:03.:42:05.

building, it's obvious to see that, you know,

:42:06.:42:07.

it's work available for these local guys,

:42:08.:42:09.

and it's on the doorstep.

:42:10.:42:10.

When you look at the amount of money that's been spent

:42:11.:42:13.

in the south in infrastructure compared to the north, it pales into

:42:14.:42:15.

We're going to be a very large voice shouting out and

:42:16.:42:19.

bringing it forward, the north, because it's the right economy.

:42:20.:42:22.

And we've got the skills here to do it.

:42:23.:42:24.

Back in Knottingley, there is no immediate lift

:42:25.:42:28.

from the high-speed rail plans, but people are hoping

:42:29.:42:30.

the knock-on effect isn't too far down the line.

:42:31.:42:32.

For children like the ones behind me here, living in the

:42:33.:42:34.

economy of Knottingley, it's much more than aspiration.

:42:35.:42:37.

The Northern Powerhouse success or failure will

:42:38.:42:40.

have a direct bearing on their futures.

:42:41.:42:44.

Andrew Percy, are you surprised to hear many

:42:45.:42:47.

people don't know what the Northern Powerhouse is, and they certainly

:42:48.:42:50.

Well I don't expect people to have read

:42:51.:43:00.

the Northern Powerhouse strategy ought to have looked at the Northern

:43:01.:43:03.

I actually don't think that's important, I'm not in the slightest

:43:04.:43:06.

bit bothered by that was what is important is that people understand

:43:07.:43:09.

and see the investment that is happening, so we have

:43:10.:43:12.

?2.8 billion of improvements coming to these new rail franchises.

:43:13.:43:14.

You only have to look just down the road from

:43:15.:43:16.

Knottingley at the M62, big investments in improving the road

:43:17.:43:19.

network there, so there are all sorts of projects, ?13 billion of

:43:20.:43:22.

funds, projects across the north which are all part of our investment

:43:23.:43:25.

So people see that, and actually if you

:43:26.:43:27.

look at somewhere like Knottingley, unemployment's been falling,

:43:28.:43:29.

unemployment is at record low levels in many parts of the north,

:43:30.:43:32.

we've got massive amounts of foreign investment

:43:33.:43:34.

we've got massive amounts of foreign investment coming in,

:43:35.:43:36.

But people don't need to be au fait with the Northern Powerhouse

:43:37.:43:41.

strategy, what's important is they see the results

:43:42.:43:43.

But there's still this huge disparity when it comes to the north

:43:44.:43:47.

I mean, London's got a ?15 billion railway Crossrail to

:43:48.:43:51.

You can't even get the Hulme to Selby railway electrified.

:43:52.:43:55.

The Hulme to Selby rail line is getting new

:43:56.:43:56.

trains on it which are going to be using part electric...

:43:57.:43:59.

They don't need to be, the same trains

:44:00.:44:01.

whether we electrify the line or not, will be

:44:02.:44:03.

These brand-new trains which are trains which are built in the north,

:44:04.:44:07.

serving northern routes and northern networks,

:44:08.:44:09.

so actually we are seeing significant improvements there.

:44:10.:44:10.

But actually you're quite right, this is a decades long issue

:44:11.:44:13.

of the divide between the north and the south, and

:44:14.:44:16.

you know, that's why we're seeing investment like HS2,

:44:17.:44:18.

we've got plans for a high-speed rail across

:44:19.:44:20.

the north, east-west, as well,

:44:21.:44:21.

and Transport For The North will be delivering on that, and

:44:22.:44:24.

actually just tomorrow I'm going to be announcing tens of millions of

:44:25.:44:26.

pounds of new investment from the government

:44:27.:44:28.

into the Leeds and Hull areas... Across our whole region, actually,

:44:29.:44:31.

but I'll be doing Leeds and Hull, so there's lots of money coming in.

:44:32.:44:36.

Clive Betts, last week, we reported on the fact that the

:44:37.:44:40.

planned elections for a new mayor for the Sheffield city region have

:44:41.:44:43.

Now, how will that affect your area when it comes to

:44:44.:44:47.

tapping into the Northern Powerhouse?

:44:48.:44:48.

Well, I think it's going to delay it, I think it is,

:44:49.:44:55.

certainly, we can all see we need to devolve more powers to the

:44:56.:44:58.

large cities and economic hinterlands in the north.

:44:59.:45:03.

It is also important government does have a

:45:04.:45:04.

transfer of spending from the south to the north.

:45:05.:45:07.

Despite what Andrew's just said, billions

:45:08.:45:09.

of pounds more are spent in London and

:45:10.:45:12.

the south-east then spent in our more depressed northern areas.

:45:13.:45:15.

Nevertheless the reality is that Manchester and Liverpool will elect

:45:16.:45:19.

their mayors this year and what then will happen in my view is

:45:20.:45:22.

if there is money to go into northern products they will have a

:45:23.:45:25.

better claim on them, they will have a better argument

:45:26.:45:27.

for them than Sheffield and Leeds, so I'm

:45:28.:45:29.

disappointed that we aren't going ahead in May, and it's really

:45:30.:45:32.

important that we sort ourself out so there are elections for elective

:45:33.:45:38.

mayors in our region in May 2018, to make

:45:39.:45:41.

So the big Yorkshire cities are the poor relations of the

:45:42.:45:46.

Well, no, we're still going to be investing and we still are and this

:45:47.:45:51.

announcement I'm going to be making tomorrow's

:45:52.:45:53.

going to be in areas that

:45:54.:45:56.

don't have devolution deals, but Clive's quite right, actually.

:45:57.:45:58.

From a government point of view, from a

:45:59.:45:59.

more importantly investment point of view, from this may way going to

:46:00.:46:02.

have a single figure it in Manchester, a single figure in

:46:03.:46:05.

Liverpool with substantial powers, powers that are being taken from

:46:06.:46:07.

Westminster and some extra cash, so when investors are looking

:46:08.:46:10.

at where to come, it's going to be much

:46:11.:46:12.

easier for them to deal with that one person exercising planning

:46:13.:46:15.

powers over a big area in Manchester and Liverpool than here,

:46:16.:46:18.

but unfortunately it's a failure within our

:46:19.:46:20.

region for us to get an agreement on this

:46:21.:46:27.

and you know, people keep coming up with crazy proposals for

:46:28.:46:29.

John Trickett, Labour's devolution supremo,

:46:30.:46:35.

Yorkshire wide Mayor, and many other people

:46:36.:46:38.

One thing that would have been helpful is if

:46:39.:46:42.

first of all John had talked to the MPs for

:46:43.:46:45.

We have an arrangement, we have six councils who are committed

:46:46.:46:48.

to going forward to have an elective mayor for their area.

:46:49.:46:51.

Of course, including Chesterfield and Bassetlaw,

:46:52.:46:52.

which aren't within Yorkshire, they're within Derbyshire and

:46:53.:46:55.

Nottinghamshire, they want to be part of the Sheffield city region,

:46:56.:46:58.

because devolution should happen on an economic area

:46:59.:47:00.

because people live in Chesterfield and work in Sheffield,

:47:01.:47:02.

live in Worksop and work in Sheffield,

:47:03.:47:04.

That's how it should work and really,

:47:05.:47:06.

John has really muddied the waters

:47:07.:47:08.

But Yorkshire is now a global brand as a county.

:47:09.:47:12.

What's wrong with a single figurehead for the whole county?

:47:13.:47:16.

Well, the fact is, Tim, what John proposed last week

:47:17.:47:19.

Because it doesn't fit with the legislation.

:47:20.:47:21.

But we've negotiated this really good deal

:47:22.:47:23.

with South Yorkshire which will bring ?1 billion

:47:24.:47:25.

we want to make good on that deal and I would say to any of the

:47:26.:47:30.

leaders of those councils in South Yorkshire if they walk away from

:47:31.:47:33.

that deal then I make it absolutely from a government point of view it

:47:34.:47:36.

will come off the table and that will be the end of the matter.

:47:37.:47:39.

Those powers and that money will not come

:47:40.:47:41.

But actually we also have to accept there are

:47:42.:47:45.

distinct differences within the region

:47:46.:47:46.

and what we're trying to do

:47:47.:47:47.

for these mayoral organisations, these mayoral structures is economic

:47:48.:47:51.

development, is grow economic development.

:47:52.:47:52.

So, South Yorkshire is a very fine fit for that him and

:47:53.:47:55.

That's done, that deal was locked down by government some time ago.

:47:56.:47:59.

So the question is what do we do with

:48:00.:48:02.

So we've got to get east, west and north sorted out,

:48:03.:48:05.

and Clive's absolutely right, when people keep throwing in these

:48:06.:48:08.

grenades which ask us to view things which aren't even legal, it means

:48:09.:48:11.

we're further from getting the powers we want from Westminster

:48:12.:48:13.

and we are putting ourselves even further behind,

:48:14.:48:15.

and I'm afraid Leeds City Council have been engaging in that this

:48:16.:48:18.

week as well with their chief executive also backing a proposal.

:48:19.:48:22.

We're going to have come to this another time.

:48:23.:48:24.

Basically, we want this deal for the Sheffield

:48:25.:48:26.

city Region, or we want this deal, we

:48:27.:48:28.

It's on the table, let's get it and let

:48:29.:48:31.

start spending it to improve jobs and economy in the Sheffield city

:48:32.:48:34.

Let's get more of the week's political news now.

:48:35.:48:37.

Trudy Scanlon has our round-up in 60 Seconds.

:48:38.:48:39.

A question from Boston MP Matt Warman prompted praise from the

:48:40.:48:42.

For the reaction of east coast emergency services to the

:48:43.:48:45.

storm surge which last week threatened people and properties.

:48:46.:48:53.

Rotherham born born education minister Justine Greening

:48:54.:48:55.

when she announced that Doncaster and Bradford

:48:56.:48:58.

would join the town as

:48:59.:48:59.

They are places where we think young people could do

:49:00.:49:02.

a lot better but we need to work hard if we going to get a change on

:49:03.:49:06.

the ground, and that means working not just inside schools on helping

:49:07.:49:09.

them improve but also helping outside of schools.

:49:10.:49:11.

Philip Davies, the Shipley MP, challenged the

:49:12.:49:15.

equality and human rights commission to get

:49:16.:49:17.

its own house in order on the

:49:18.:49:18.

pay gap between groups of staff working there.

:49:19.:49:21.

And back with praise from the Prime Minister.

:49:22.:49:23.

This time, for Lincoln MP Karl McCartney's

:49:24.:49:25.

Can I join my honourable friend in congratulating

:49:26.:49:29.

Lincoln city on their victory last night,

:49:30.:49:33.

and can I say, I think it was a fitting tribute

:49:34.:49:36.

to Graham Taylor that they won that match.

:49:37.:49:41.

So, what was the big story of the week for you, Andrew Percy?

:49:42.:49:45.

I think the Prime Minister's Brexit speech.

:49:46.:49:46.

I was really surprised actually, pleasantly surprised just how many

:49:47.:49:49.

constituents e-mailed me and got in touch afterwards to say that

:49:50.:49:51.

week the way that she delivered it and what she proposed was absolutely

:49:52.:49:55.

spot on, so that was clearly the big story of the week.

:49:56.:49:57.

Well yes, Brexit speech, you know, but actually the

:49:58.:50:01.

bigger story will come when government can't deliver what it

:50:02.:50:06.

promises in two years, impossible to do a full deal

:50:07.:50:08.

The other one is, the ongoing problems in the health

:50:09.:50:12.

service and social care, there is a crisis there which isn't being

:50:13.:50:15.

Lack of money, people waiting on trolleys,

:50:16.:50:18.

longer and longer, and it is going to be a severe

:50:19.:50:21.

winter so heaven knows what

:50:22.:50:22.

happens if we have a really cold spell in the next few weeks.

:50:23.:50:25.

Will you vote to trigger Article 50 when

:50:26.:50:27.

I have said that to my constituents, it was an

:50:28.:50:31.

advisory referendum, but we ask the British people's

:50:32.:50:33.

And if Parliament, you know, it's unlikely,

:50:34.:50:38.

but if Parliament decides that Brexit shouldn't go ahead, what

:50:39.:50:40.

Well, I mean lots of people speculate that there will

:50:41.:50:44.

I think it would be very difficult if

:50:45.:50:50.

Parliament, particularly House of Commons will be a

:50:51.:50:52.

problem but if the House of Lords wants to be a problem, can you

:50:53.:50:55.

An unelected house thwarting the will of the British

:50:56.:50:58.

I don't think it will happen but in that situation I think many

:50:59.:51:03.

experts and many commentators would suggest there would be a general

:51:04.:51:05.

But a lot more debates to come, it's not just the Article 50

:51:06.:51:09.

and then the discussions happen, it's what comes out of those

:51:10.:51:12.

discussions and what sort of agreement are we left with, indeed,

:51:13.:51:15.

at the end of two years, are we left with any agreement?

:51:16.:51:17.

I mean, there's some real challenges that, so it's

:51:18.:51:19.

not as simple as voting for and against Article 50, the real

:51:20.:51:22.

Do you expect a big Labour rebellion?

:51:23.:51:26.

You know, Labour MPs saying they will vote not

:51:27.:51:28.

There will be some Labour MPs, particularly in

:51:29.:51:31.

constituencies which voted to remain, where the MP voted to remain

:51:32.:51:33.

themselves and argued for it as their constituents did,

:51:34.:51:35.

I'm very clear, I argued for the remain campaign, I campaigned

:51:36.:51:39.

very hard for it but in the end I know my constituents, the majority

:51:40.:51:43.

of them voted to leave and I will respect that

:51:44.:51:45.

Now, the most controversial US president in living memory has been

:51:46.:51:49.

sworn into office, so how will Donald Trump's presidency effect

:51:50.:51:52.

You may think it's too early to tell but last year

:51:53.:51:56.

one Lincolnshire MP said that her constituents may well

:51:57.:51:59.

So, we're asking today will President Trump be judged

:52:00.:52:05.

You will be so proud of your president, you will be so proud.

:52:06.:52:17.

Grimsby-based journalist Nadia Hussain has followed Donald Trump's

:52:18.:52:21.

road to the White House with interest.

:52:22.:52:23.

As a woman and a Muslim, she says she was shocked by some of

:52:24.:52:27.

Mr Trump's rhetoric on the campaign trail.

:52:28.:52:29.

He's saying it in front of millions, and so people are now

:52:30.:52:33.

feeling justified to feel that way so the already sexist people are

:52:34.:52:36.

thinking that's great, I can say these things

:52:37.:52:38.

because he served them come and people that are already

:52:39.:52:40.

Islamophobic or have fear of the other are now feeling oh, that's

:52:41.:52:48.

wonderful, if the most powerful man in the world can say them, I can

:52:49.:52:52.

Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete

:52:53.:52:55.

shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.

:52:56.:52:57.

It was that pledge to ban Muslims from entering the United

:52:58.:53:00.

States that led to a petition over here calling for Mr Trump himself to

:53:01.:53:04.

There was even a debate in parliament where a Lincolnshire MP

:53:05.:53:10.

used a word rarely heard in the corridors of power.

:53:11.:53:19.

And if he met one or two of my constituents in one of

:53:20.:53:22.

the many excellent pubs in my constituency, then they may well

:53:23.:53:25.

tell him that he is a wazzock for dealing with this issue in this way.

:53:26.:53:30.

So, is that really how the good people

:53:31.:53:32.

of Louth would describe the

:53:33.:53:34.

Just like the rest the world, Donald

:53:35.:53:38.

I don't know too much about him but from

:53:39.:53:44.

what I know I think he's sexist, his

:53:45.:53:46.

he's racist, I think is going to cause a

:53:47.:53:49.

lot of chaos but at the end of the

:53:50.:53:52.

He's coming from a fresh viewpoint,

:53:53.:53:59.

They're fed up with the political system as indeed some people are

:54:00.:54:03.

over here, and the wind of change is

:54:04.:54:05.

blowing right across the world, isn't it?

:54:06.:54:10.

The way he speaks, he's got no respect, I don't think, for

:54:11.:54:13.

I mean, people get in a panic saying, oh, Brexit,

:54:14.:54:17.

Trump, the world's coming to an end. No it hasn't.

:54:18.:54:19.

It's taken rather an amusing turn where nobody was

:54:20.:54:22.

One Yorkshire MP was at Friday's presidential

:54:23.:54:27.

inauguration as part of his role as the UK representative

:54:28.:54:30.

creating jobs, creating growth, creating stability, and I'm sure he

:54:31.:54:36.

will quickly recognise that stability comes with stable

:54:37.:54:40.

partnerships and stable military affairs.

:54:41.:54:44.

All therefore I think that he will quickly come to realise

:54:45.:54:46.

that Nato plays an important role in

:54:47.:54:50.

growing the GDP of a country like ours as much as anybody else's.

:54:51.:54:53.

And the waters of the United 's states rule...

:54:54.:54:55.

My friend just went recently to America.

:54:56.:55:00.

She whether the hijab, and she was worried about all of the

:55:01.:55:03.

story she's been hearing, you know, from how people have been treated.

:55:04.:55:06.

She literally said she has never been treated with so much respect

:55:07.:55:09.

and politeness from the American people.

:55:10.:55:10.

she almost wanted to cry at how generous people were.

:55:11.:55:14.

I know that they aren't everywhere, I

:55:15.:55:16.

know so much injustice is happening everywhere not just an hour,

:55:17.:55:19.

but they are the stories I want to remember.

:55:20.:55:21.

So, it's fair to say the jury's out on President Trump, but

:55:22.:55:25.

love him or loathe him, this is a man who will dominate global

:55:26.:55:28.

So what impact do we think Donald Trump's presidency will have

:55:29.:55:37.

I don't know come he's actually a great unknown in terms of making

:55:38.:55:42.

Some of the steps shown so the racism and sexism, you know, I

:55:43.:55:52.

certainly feel uncomfortable with. certainly feel uncomfortable with.

:55:53.:55:58.

Two things really worrying me are the Nato issue, his and lukewarm

:55:59.:56:01.

support for Nato at a time when the tin is showing aggression in army

:56:02.:56:05.

and the Ukraine I think is a real worry. The other big issue is

:56:06.:56:10.

climate change. In, at the very time that the United States and, -- China

:56:11.:56:15.

have managed to reach an agreement, President Trump comes in denying

:56:16.:56:18.

climate change exists stop I think this is a real worry for the future

:56:19.:56:24.

Trump? I think it has been Trump? I think it has been

:56:25.:56:27.

interesting watching liberal outrage in this country about Trump. If you

:56:28.:56:32.

tolerant it is, it is actually in tolerant it is, it is actually in

:56:33.:56:37.

content to Europe where fascists, neo-Nazis and other extreme

:56:38.:56:38.

right-wing parties get elected. America isn't the case normally,

:56:39.:56:44.

this is a tolerant country. He has said many things on the campaign

:56:45.:56:47.

Trail I don't want to associate with but I don't think it has been fairly

:56:48.:56:50.

covered here, it is being presented as a dope was a great servers are

:56:51.:56:55.

and some of the things he's been saying and why, you get to see that

:56:56.:56:59.

of people feel left behind and have of people feel left behind and have

:57:00.:57:01.

legitimate concerns will be people that voted for John, and we

:57:02.:57:05.

shouldn't pooh-pooh them, because we think Trump got funny hair. If you

:57:06.:57:11.

look at the campaign, the commentators talking about the rust

:57:12.:57:14.

belt, people worried about jobs, immigration, being let down by

:57:15.:57:18.

politicians. That could have been Yorkshire. This is true. They are

:57:19.:57:23.

left behind groups in our own industrial areas who now gets

:57:24.:57:28.

part-time jobs, jobs through agencies come as contract, all the

:57:29.:57:32.

ways people get employed these days. I think Donald Trump given these

:57:33.:57:37.

philosophies will not do anything to improve his condition. The idea of

:57:38.:57:41.

putting a wall round the state and trade protections, that won't solve

:57:42.:57:46.

the US problems, anything that will solve problems here either. I think

:57:47.:57:49.

we have the bigger real high blood at our society and a look at how

:57:50.:57:53.

much some people are paying themselves increasingly at the top

:57:54.:57:56.

of our society and then look at the conditions at the Beeb at the

:57:57.:57:59.

bottom. As a country we have a responsibility to actually reward

:58:00.:58:02.

people better for some very important jobs like care workers,

:58:03.:58:07.

for example. They get paid the minimum amount of money for doing a

:58:08.:58:11.

really important job for our society. What are the parallels for

:58:12.:58:17.

Brexit? Yes, and no. I think the same demographic of people certainly

:58:18.:58:20.

were drawn to Brexit that were drawn the drug but eventually the scope

:58:21.:58:24.

the service I have looked at some polling focus groups done Brexit

:58:25.:58:28.

boat is in the UK and actually they were more free-trade than people who

:58:29.:58:30.

voted remain here whereas the job voted remain here whereas the job

:58:31.:58:34.

message is very anti-free trade so I think it is a lazy comparison that

:58:35.:58:38.

grab activators they want us to be grab activators they want us to be

:58:39.:58:41.

global, buy into what the Prime Minister said on Monday about 's

:58:42.:58:46.

free trade, and what we have said is that we have to be careful with

:58:47.:58:49.

strong, the element of protectionism, but that is no 1's

:58:50.:58:54.

interest. His half British, and he said he was a trade deal with

:58:55.:58:57.

Britain, so let's focus on the positives, because he is the

:58:58.:58:59.

president whether anybody like him or not. Absolutely. We have to

:59:00.:59:04.

challenge him in areas, and nothing have to challenge him to be a full

:59:05.:59:07.

member of Nato because United States is crucially important than our

:59:08.:59:14.

there. We can't carry on for the next four years with a president

:59:15.:59:19.

denying climate change and not entering into the negotiations. And

:59:20.:59:23.

also green energy, and at an industry in our world. Also a

:59:24.:59:27.

massive industry in the States, a huge job creation there. Let's see

:59:28.:59:29.

how his industry view changes when he gets pressure from members

:59:30.:59:33.

relying on that. Clive is absolutely right. This is where we have a role

:59:34.:59:39.

in Britain, because we are seen as a natural Ali, we have a special

:59:40.:59:46.

relationship. -- natural ally. Our prime ministers should negotiate

:59:47.:59:49.

well in the hope that some of the issues around Nato and trade we can

:59:50.:59:55.

have a positive impact on him. History of cores will be the judge

:59:56.:59:57.

of all political careers including both of yours. That is assuming we

:59:58.:00:05.

have one! Let me know when it starts! Thank you both. Clive Betts

:00:06.:00:07.

and Andrew Percy. have to do this. Thank you to you

:00:08.:00:08.

both. What exactly is the government's

:00:09.:00:11.

industrial strategy? Will ministers lose their supreme

:00:12.:00:22.

court battle over Brexit, and, Well, tomorrow Theresa May

:00:23.:00:25.

is launching the government's industrial strategy -

:00:26.:00:37.

and to talk about that we're joined by the Business Minister,

:00:38.:00:41.

Margot James - welcome to the show. When you look at what has already

:00:42.:00:52.

been released in advance of the Prime Minister's statement, it was

:00:53.:00:59.

embargoed for last night, it's not really an industrial strategy, it's

:01:00.:01:04.

just another skills strategy, of which we have had about six since

:01:05.:01:07.

the war, and our skills training is among the worst in Western Europe?

:01:08.:01:15.

There will be plenty more to be announced tomorrow in what is really

:01:16.:01:19.

a discussion document in the preparation of an industrial

:01:20.:01:23.

strategy which we intend to launch properly later in the year. Let's

:01:24.:01:30.

look at skills. You are allocating 117 of funding to establish

:01:31.:01:37.

institutes of technology. How many? The exact number is to be agreed,

:01:38.:01:41.

but the spend is there, and it will be on top of what we are doing to

:01:42.:01:46.

the university, technical colleges... How many were lit bio

:01:47.:01:50.

create? We don't know exactly, but we want to put them in areas where

:01:51.:01:57.

young people are performing under the national average. But if you

:01:58.:02:03.

don't know how many, what is the basis of 170 million? That is the

:02:04.:02:08.

amount the Treasury have released. The something that is very

:02:09.:02:11.

important, we are agreed we need to devote more resources to vocational

:02:12.:02:17.

training and get it on a par with academic qualifications. I looked on

:02:18.:02:24.

the website of my old university, the University of Glasgow, the

:02:25.:02:28.

Russell group universities. Its spending budget every year is over

:02:29.:02:34.

600 million. That's one University. And yet you have a mere 170 million

:02:35.:02:41.

foreign unspecified number of institutes of technology. It hasn't

:02:42.:02:47.

got equality with the academics? You have to remember that just as you

:02:48.:02:52.

have quoted figures from Glasgow University there are further

:02:53.:02:55.

education colleges all over the country. The government is already

:02:56.:03:03.

spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But also, we are going to be adding...

:03:04.:03:10.

This is new money that is all to the good, because we are already

:03:11.:03:15.

spending a lot. We have already created 2 million more apprentices

:03:16.:03:19.

since 2010. That many are not in what we would call the stem skills,

:03:20.:03:24.

and a lot come nowhere near what the Dutch, Germans and Austrians would

:03:25.:03:30.

have. I'm not clear how another 170 million would do. You said it is

:03:31.:03:35.

more than skills. In what way is this industrial strategy different

:03:36.:03:39.

from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne did before? It's different because

:03:40.:03:49.

it is involving every single government department, and bringing

:03:50.:03:51.

together everything that government does in a bid to make Britain more

:03:52.:03:54.

competitive as it disengages from the European Union. That is what the

:03:55.:04:00.

last Labour government did. They will much more targeted

:04:01.:04:04.

interventions. Under the Labour government, the auto industry got

:04:05.:04:09.

some benefit. A few more sectors were broached under the coalition

:04:10.:04:13.

government. This is all about communities all over the country,

:04:14.:04:17.

some of whom have fallen behind in terms of wage growth and good jobs.

:04:18.:04:23.

The Prime Minister has already announced 2 billion as a research

:04:24.:04:30.

and development priority in specific technologies, robotics, artificial

:04:31.:04:33.

intelligence, medical technology, satellites... So you are doing what

:04:34.:04:39.

has been done before. There is nothing new about this. Wait until

:04:40.:04:44.

tomorrow, because there will be some new strands emerging. It is the

:04:45.:04:49.

beginning of the dialogue with industry and with workers, and the

:04:50.:04:54.

responses will be invited up until April. That will inform a wider

:04:55.:04:58.

strategy that goes beyond skills. I have moved on to beyond them. I'm

:04:59.:05:05.

slightly puzzled as to how the government knows where to invest in

:05:06.:05:09.

robotics, when it can't even provide the NHS with a decent IT system.

:05:10.:05:16.

Discuss. I have to say I find it bizarre that the government is

:05:17.:05:19.

making an announcement about an amount of money and don't know where

:05:20.:05:24.

it's going. This is typical of all governments over all political

:05:25.:05:29.

shoes, which is total disregard for technical education, so different

:05:30.:05:35.

from Germany, who actually invest in the technological side. Germany has

:05:36.:05:41.

a long history. We want to emulate some of the best of what German

:05:42.:05:49.

companies do. Siemens sponsor primary schools, for example. We

:05:50.:05:53.

want to get a dialogue on with business. We don't want to decide

:05:54.:05:59.

where this money is going. By the way, it was 4.7 billion that the

:06:00.:06:04.

government has agreed to invest in science and research, which is the

:06:05.:06:08.

most significant increase in decades. Can you remind us what

:06:09.:06:13.

happened in Northern Ireland, when the government invested money in

:06:14.:06:16.

state-of-the-art technology for energy? No one needs to be reminded

:06:17.:06:20.

of that, and that is not what we are doing. We are inviting business and

:06:21.:06:29.

industry to advise where that money is best spent. That's very different

:06:30.:06:35.

from government deciding that a particular technology is for the

:06:36.:06:38.

future. The government's chief scientific adviser has determined

:06:39.:06:45.

that we will invest a huge amount in battery technology, which should

:06:46.:06:49.

benefit the electric car industry, and... This is taxpayers' money. Who

:06:50.:06:56.

gets it? Ultimately, business will get it, but often only when there is

:06:57.:07:01.

a considerable amount of private sector finance also drawn in. But

:07:02.:07:11.

who is held to account? Various government departments at local

:07:12.:07:14.

authorities will hold this list to account. A lot of it is about

:07:15.:07:20.

releasing private capital as well. Thank you very much. This week, the

:07:21.:07:25.

Supreme Court, I think we know the ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the

:07:26.:07:33.

expectation is that the judges will say Parliament will have to vote to

:07:34.:07:38.

trigger. Is this all much ado about nothing? Parliament will vote to

:07:39.:07:41.

trigger, and the government will win in the Lords and the Commons by

:07:42.:07:46.

substantial majorities, and it will be triggered? Completely. We've

:07:47.:07:51.

known that. Parliament is voted. Everyone is pretty confident that

:07:52.:07:55.

the Supreme Court will uphold the High Court's decision and say it has

:07:56.:08:00.

to go to MPs. There will be a bit of toing and froing among MPs on

:08:01.:08:08.

amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's slightly car crash interview there.

:08:09.:08:12.

The Lib Dems may throw something in, but we will trigger Article 50 by

:08:13.:08:21.

the end of March. If it also says that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff

:08:22.:08:23.

and Belfast should be picked up, that could complicate matters.

:08:24.:08:29.

Absolutely. That could delay the planned triggering of Article 50

:08:30.:08:34.

before the end of March. Not what they say about the Westminster

:08:35.:08:37.

Parliament, because it is clear that it was. I never understood the

:08:38.:08:43.

furore about that original judgment, because every MP made it clear they

:08:44.:08:48.

wouldn't block it. Even though Diane Abbott was evasive on several

:08:49.:08:51.

fronts, she said they wouldn't block it. You are right, if they give a

:08:52.:08:58.

vote, or give some authorisation for the Scottish Parliament and other

:08:59.:09:02.

devolved assemblies, that might delay the whole sequence. That is

:09:03.:09:06.

the only significant thing to watch out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs

:09:07.:09:13.

May goes to Washington. It will be another movie in the making! I would

:09:14.:09:18.

suggest that she has a tricky line to follow. She has got to be seen to

:09:19.:09:22.

be taking advantage of the fact that there is a very pro-British,

:09:23.:09:28.

pro-Brexit president in the Oval Office, who I am told is prepared to

:09:29.:09:33.

expend political capital on this. But on the other hand, to make sure

:09:34.:09:38.

that she is not what we used to call Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It

:09:39.:09:49.

is very difficult, and who would not want to be a fly on the wall in that

:09:50.:09:52.

meeting! I can't think of anyone in the world who would despise Mr Trump

:09:53.:09:58.

more than Mrs May, and for him, he dislikes any woman who does not look

:09:59.:10:02.

like a supermodel, no disrespected Mrs May. Most of it is actually

:10:03.:10:12.

anti-EU, and I think we should capitalise it. Let's get the Queen

:10:13.:10:17.

to earn her money, roll out the red carpet, invite him to dinner, spend

:10:18.:10:24.

the night, what ever we need... Trump at Balmoral! Here is the

:10:25.:10:29.

issue, because the agenda is, as we heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that

:10:30.:10:33.

this is not an administration that has much time for the EU, EU

:10:34.:10:38.

integration or Germany. I think Germany will be the second biggest

:10:39.:10:43.

loser to begin with. They will not even give a date for Angela Merkel

:10:44.:10:47.

to meet the president. This is an opportunity for Mrs May... It is a

:10:48.:10:56.

huge. It could sideline talks of the punishment beating from Germany. The

:10:57.:11:05.

Trump presidency has completely changed the field on Brexit. Along

:11:06.:11:11.

came Donald Trump, and Theresa May has this incredible opportunity

:11:12.:11:15.

here. Not of her making, but she has played her cards well. To an

:11:16.:11:20.

officially be the EU emissary to Washington, to get some sort of

:11:21.:11:25.

broker going. That gives us huge extra leveraged in the Brexit

:11:26.:11:30.

negotiations. People around the world think Germany as a currency

:11:31.:11:35.

manipulator, that it is benefiting from an underpriced euro, hence the

:11:36.:11:38.

huge surplus it runs of America, and they think it is disgraceful that a

:11:39.:11:43.

country that runs a massive budget surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP

:11:44.:11:49.

on defence, and America runs a massive deficit and needs to spend a

:11:50.:11:54.

lot more. He's going for Germany. And what a massive shift. I think

:11:55.:12:01.

Obama was quite open, in a farewell interview, that he felt closer to

:12:02.:12:04.

Merkel than any other European leader. And Jamie kind of reflected

:12:05.:12:12.

that in our discussion. Yes, that's very interesting discussion. I think

:12:13.:12:17.

she was the last person he spoke to in the White House, Obama. And now

:12:18.:12:22.

you are getting the onslaught from Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery

:12:23.:12:27.

is dangerous, though. Blair was hypnotised by it and was too scared

:12:28.:12:32.

to criticise Bush, because he wanted to be seen in that light, and we

:12:33.:12:38.

know where that led. Cameron similarly with Obama, which

:12:39.:12:42.

presented him with problems, as Obama didn't regard him as his

:12:43.:12:47.

number one pin up in Europe. I would put a note of caution in there about

:12:48.:12:53.

the Thatcher - Reagan parallel. Everything Trump is doing now is

:12:54.:12:59.

different from before, so Mrs May should not have any of these

:13:00.:13:03.

previous relationships in her mind. That is not entirely true. Donald

:13:04.:13:08.

Trump aches to be the new Ronald Reagan. He may be impeached first!

:13:09.:13:16.

He sees her as the new Margaret Thatcher, and that may her leveraged

:13:17.:13:17.

with him. Thank you. We'll be back here at the same time

:13:18.:13:25.

next week, and you can catch up on all the latest political news

:13:26.:13:30.

on the Daily Politics, In the meantime, remember -

:13:31.:13:32.

if it's Sunday,

:13:33.:13:37.

Andrew Neil, Tim Iredale and guests including shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump. On the political panel are Julia Hartley-Brewer of talkRadio, Tom Newton Dunn of the Sun and broadcaster and journalist Steve Richards.