29/01/2017 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire


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29/01/2017

Andrew Neil and Tim Iredale are joined by Nigel Farage, MEP. The Political Panel consists of Janan Ganesh, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Steve Richards.


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Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven

:01:06.:01:10.

mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports.

:01:11.:01:13.

On the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire: A drop

:01:14.:01:16.

A radical idea is needed to resolve the crisis of

:01:17.:01:21.

We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage

:01:22.:01:27.

what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's

:01:28.:01:30.

In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,

:01:31.:01:32.

has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze

:01:33.:01:35.

and why it doesn't apply to everybody.

:01:36.:01:37.

And with me, the best and brightest political

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panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia

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They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.

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It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that

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Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven

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President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,

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Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from

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where refugees are banned from until further notice.

:01:59.:02:02.

Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban

:02:03.:02:05.

on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.

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Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out

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But the ban has sparked protests across the US,

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as people affected and already in the air were detained

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US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many

:02:26.:02:29.

At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked

:02:30.:02:35.

about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...

:02:36.:02:39.

Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'

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The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy

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on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number

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of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.

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Downing Street later issued a statement saying:

:02:54.:03:08.

This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why

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Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's

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The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip

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She wants to see the evidence, she wants

:03:20.:03:23.

to understand precisely what the implications are.

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She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with

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President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and

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understand it, and then will respond to that.

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I think there are times where, you know, there's always

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pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.

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The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it

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We're joined now from North London by the Conservative

:03:47.:03:50.

Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more

:03:51.:04:02.

vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David

:04:03.:04:11.

just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an

:04:12.:04:14.

appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I

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wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects

:04:19.:04:25.

our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it

:04:26.:04:29.

is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with

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Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but

:04:37.:04:40.

she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism

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about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in

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Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street

:04:51.:04:52.

spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have

:04:53.:04:55.

not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of

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criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,

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so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I

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wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the

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moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address

:05:13.:05:17.

things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the

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hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you

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like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is

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about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she

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should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would

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have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald

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Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to

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understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with

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the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would

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engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day

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temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority

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population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the

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biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this

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temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is

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wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through

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and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.

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It can't be right that a president in that position of power can

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arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already

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been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach

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I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by

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this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?

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I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by

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this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are

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desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by

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this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only

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because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it

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is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do

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you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is

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the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work

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with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was

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that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our

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country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is

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the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate

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within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,

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but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,

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should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a

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great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of

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Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the

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protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I

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believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have

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achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a

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number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am

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inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege

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of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places

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where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the

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right place. Thank you for joining us.

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Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald

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Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,

:08:56.:08:59.

particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going

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to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on

:09:05.:09:09.

every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa

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May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time

:09:15.:09:19.

to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.

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When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and

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can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying

:09:34.:09:37.

more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing

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Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going

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to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's

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going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It

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does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special

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relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven

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wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.

:10:02.:10:07.

You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for

:10:08.:10:11.

American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what

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Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why

:10:16.:10:21.

I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has

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implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was

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campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real

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Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the

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executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a

:10:39.:10:44.

class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day

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limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,

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President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.

:10:55.:10:58.

Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in

:10:59.:11:01.

recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with

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Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned

:11:10.:11:14.

been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not

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included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in

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such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal

:11:23.:11:25.

thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It

:11:26.:11:35.

is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge

:11:36.:11:40.

in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue

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for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree

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with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa

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May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is

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reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is

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nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with

:12:07.:12:10.

him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time

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now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee

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policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as

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well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this

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anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she

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says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.

:12:35.:12:38.

These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does

:12:39.:12:42.

something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her

:12:43.:12:46.

administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical

:12:47.:12:51.

situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in

:12:52.:12:56.

the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.

:12:57.:13:00.

We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless

:13:01.:13:03.

communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for

:13:04.:13:07.

large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't

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excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via

:13:12.:13:15.

Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible

:13:16.:13:19.

excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than

:13:20.:13:23.

many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with

:13:24.:13:28.

the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of

:13:29.:13:32.

Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is

:13:33.:13:35.

already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't

:13:36.:13:41.

know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky

:13:42.:13:43.

situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first

:13:44.:13:47.

foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit

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was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,

:13:51.:13:53.

keen for a new trading relationship with the United States

:13:54.:13:55.

in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated

:13:56.:13:57.

the new US President for his "stunning election victory"

:13:58.:13:59.

but might not have intended to be pictured walking

:14:00.:14:02.

through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping

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Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade

:14:05.:14:08.

will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President

:14:09.:14:11.

told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister

:14:12.:14:19.

said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries

:14:20.:14:23.

increased their defence spending It's been announced

:14:24.:14:26.

that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,

:14:27.:14:32.

with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead

:14:33.:14:33.

to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as

:14:34.:14:39.

Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's

:14:40.:14:43.

going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear

:14:44.:14:46.

to Donald Trump her continued

:14:47.:14:49.

backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over

:14:50.:14:55.

the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer

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to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues

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that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former

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Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's

:15:04.:15:19.

decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the

:15:20.:15:23.

United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which

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appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He

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was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to

:15:33.:15:36.

protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven

:15:37.:15:44.

countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if

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he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just

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look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela

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Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,

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look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all

:16:06.:16:09.

of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria

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literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in

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virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have

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been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of

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a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of

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persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But

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you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you

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said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing

:16:42.:16:45.

Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees

:16:46.:16:51.

into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.

:16:52.:16:59.

He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those

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comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's

:17:04.:17:08.

policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is

:17:09.:17:13.

fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this

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country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any

:17:17.:17:26.

terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have

:17:27.:17:30.

been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have

:17:31.:17:35.

been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why

:17:36.:17:40.

would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people

:17:41.:17:43.

that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into

:17:44.:17:47.

Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not

:17:48.:17:53.

for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening

:17:54.:17:56.

process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with

:17:57.:18:02.

the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to

:18:03.:18:06.

America, they then go through biometric screening, database

:18:07.:18:10.

screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence

:18:11.:18:21.

agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It

:18:22.:18:28.

is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we

:18:29.:18:32.

have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald

:18:33.:18:35.

Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and

:18:36.:18:41.

then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned

:18:42.:18:44.

he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since

:18:45.:18:51.

you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing

:18:52.:18:56.

you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not

:18:57.:19:00.

asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you

:19:01.:19:03.

take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,

:19:04.:19:10.

of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in

:19:11.:19:13.

terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say

:19:14.:19:17.

it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the

:19:18.:19:21.

world have not been included in this. The point is they have made

:19:22.:19:24.

this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about

:19:25.:19:30.

the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him

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to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you

:19:37.:19:41.

feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total

:19:42.:19:45.

ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that

:19:46.:19:50.

what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be

:19:51.:19:54.

talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We

:19:55.:20:01.

will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What

:20:02.:20:07.

advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa

:20:08.:20:13.

May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the

:20:14.:20:17.

Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been

:20:18.:20:21.

surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who

:20:22.:20:26.

say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make

:20:27.:20:30.

it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can

:20:31.:20:33.

be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister

:20:34.:20:38.

who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally

:20:39.:20:43.

herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial

:20:44.:20:48.

president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building

:20:49.:20:53.

a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking

:20:54.:20:57.

of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is

:20:58.:21:02.

controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke

:21:03.:21:07.

in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it

:21:08.:21:12.

is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the

:21:13.:21:15.

British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I

:21:16.:21:19.

think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in

:21:20.:21:23.

her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato

:21:24.:21:28.

members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there

:21:29.:21:33.

is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the

:21:34.:21:38.

Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms

:21:39.:21:42.

of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good

:21:43.:21:50.

as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying

:21:51.:21:53.

this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control

:21:54.:21:58.

immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good

:21:59.:22:01.

speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I

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could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying

:22:07.:22:09.

things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have

:22:10.:22:16.

a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can

:22:17.:22:20.

see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a

:22:21.:22:24.

priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French

:22:25.:22:28.

elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I

:22:29.:22:33.

worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress

:22:34.:22:36.

and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.

:22:37.:22:43.

What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say

:22:44.:22:47.

OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough

:22:48.:22:51.

stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a

:22:52.:22:57.

deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot

:22:58.:23:01.

sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,

:23:02.:23:06.

we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,

:23:07.:23:11.

maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until

:23:12.:23:16.

we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will

:23:17.:23:19.

find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and

:23:20.:23:23.

countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that

:23:24.:23:28.

will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the

:23:29.:23:32.

Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you

:23:33.:23:36.

agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.

:23:37.:23:40.

If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you

:23:41.:23:45.

approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any

:23:46.:23:50.

political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,

:23:51.:23:55.

there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip

:23:56.:23:59.

loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,

:24:00.:24:04.

they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and

:24:05.:24:08.

I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that

:24:09.:24:13.

says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen

:24:14.:24:15.

to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the

:24:16.:24:21.

Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over

:24:22.:24:26.

this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition

:24:27.:24:30.

will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's

:24:31.:24:35.

best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of

:24:36.:24:39.

Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to

:24:40.:24:45.

fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.

:24:46.:24:54.

If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,

:24:55.:24:58.

there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always

:24:59.:25:02.

been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't

:25:03.:25:09.

it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it

:25:10.:25:14.

does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and

:25:15.:25:18.

Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for

:25:19.:25:20.

being with us. It's just gone 11.25,

:25:21.:25:22.

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:25:23.:25:24.

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll

:25:25.:25:27.

be talking to our political panel. You are watching the Sunday

:25:28.:25:37.

politics for Yorkshire and We investigate a drop in care home

:25:38.:25:44.

places and meet one man with the radical solution to the

:25:45.:25:52.

crisis of looking after our elderly Yes, they give money to local

:25:53.:25:55.

authorities but it is the Government through taxation that

:25:56.:25:59.

ought to be caring for the elderly. Yes, it's a slightly shorter,

:26:00.:26:01.

but not less important, Sunday Politics from Yorkshire

:26:02.:26:03.

and Lincolnshire today. I'm joined here in the studio

:26:04.:26:05.

by Diana Johnson, the Labour And from Cleethorpes,

:26:06.:26:08.

the Conservative MP for that It's known as bed blocking -

:26:09.:26:13.

when hospitals can't discharge patients because there is no

:26:14.:26:20.

suitable onward care available. But Sunday Politics has discovered

:26:21.:26:24.

that the number of care home places available across Yorkshire

:26:25.:26:28.

and Lincolnshire has dropped by 5% in the last five years,

:26:29.:26:31.

whilst the our aging Now one man says its time

:26:32.:26:34.

for radical solutions after his father-in-law

:26:35.:26:42.

lived in five different Pat McGuire has spoken out

:26:43.:26:44.

after he and his family chose to find residential care

:26:45.:26:50.

in Beverley, in East for his father-in-law

:26:51.:26:59.

who had dementia. But because of issues surrounding

:27:00.:27:01.

closure and suitability, his father-in-law had to be moved

:27:02.:27:04.

four times after initially settling While we can't ever prove it,

:27:05.:27:06.

we honestly believe that the moves that he had to undergo affected him

:27:07.:27:13.

and made his condition worse. Yes, they give money

:27:14.:27:18.

to the local authorities but it is the Government

:27:19.:27:20.

through taxation that ought to be caring, just as we would expect them

:27:21.:27:24.

to do for small children, the young. We ought to be providing

:27:25.:27:27.

the same level of care from Government

:27:28.:27:30.

for the elderly. Others believe that the way money

:27:31.:27:36.

is distributed within the care sector is vital in assuring that

:27:37.:27:39.

the right services are delivered. Even when the country

:27:40.:27:43.

was better off economically, social care was left

:27:44.:27:48.

at the bottom of the list so it never got the funding

:27:49.:27:51.

But the NHS, struggling as it is at the minute,

:27:52.:27:56.

Spending a bit more on social care relieves the pressure on the NHS,

:27:57.:28:03.

so moving some money from them to us.

:28:04.:28:05.

My personal view is, it's about time the NHS and social

:28:06.:28:08.

Funding issues have been blamed for a number

:28:09.:28:11.

of care homes which have had to close down.

:28:12.:28:13.

Earlier this month, Jeremy Corbyn said a Labour Government

:28:14.:28:18.

would take failing private care homes into public ownership in order

:28:19.:28:20.

The Conservative MP for Beverley and Holderness says

:28:21.:28:24.

What we do not want to do is what the Labour

:28:25.:28:31.

Party wants to do - things like nationalising a failing

:28:32.:28:34.

home with high costs, low numbers of residents

:28:35.:28:35.

The Government is absolutely committed to getting this right.

:28:36.:28:46.

If we look on the ground in Beverley, despite the current

:28:47.:28:49.

problems, in the next few weeks we are going to see

:28:50.:28:51.

over the next year I expect to see a much improved situation

:28:52.:28:56.

In a statement the Department of Health says that it

:28:57.:29:00.

recognises the pressures of an ageing population which is why it

:29:01.:29:03.

announced nearly ?900 million of additional funding for adult

:29:04.:29:05.

It adds that the Prime Minister has made clear this is not just about

:29:06.:29:12.

money and that they are working to find a long-term solution which

:29:13.:29:18.

helps councils learn from each other to raise standards.

:29:19.:29:21.

Back in Beverley, Pat McGuire is not convinced.

:29:22.:29:24.

I can only believe that it is going to get worse.

:29:25.:29:29.

Here in Beverley we have lost or are about to lose

:29:30.:29:35.

over 30% of the beds that dementia patients could be going into

:29:36.:29:39.

There are new homes being built in Beverley but they are

:29:40.:29:44.

extremely expensive and I suspect they will not want to see people

:29:45.:29:48.

that need far greater care then many people who are just frail.

:29:49.:29:56.

This is something I am sure many people watching today will be able

:29:57.:30:03.

to relate to. We have a rising elderly population but fewer care

:30:04.:30:08.

home places. What is the solution's ?900 million has been found to help

:30:09.:30:12.

social care in the next two years but the local Government Association

:30:13.:30:17.

say the shortfall was going to be ?2.6 billion. I think actually that

:30:18.:30:21.

what Mr McGuire was saying about a radical solution to this needs to be

:30:22.:30:25.

lit at. After the Second World War women knew that health care needed a

:30:26.:30:30.

national approach we sat at the National Health Service. I think now

:30:31.:30:34.

the time has come for all the parties to come and think about a

:30:35.:30:38.

national care service is funded through taxation. I think we need to

:30:39.:30:42.

integrate the National Health Service and whatever social care we

:30:43.:30:46.

have committed work for people. This is going to get worse I think that

:30:47.:30:52.

is why action is needed now. Martin Vickers, you heard there an elderly

:30:53.:30:57.

man with dementia who in the last year of his life was in five

:30:58.:31:01.

different care homes. Can you understand why many people say the

:31:02.:31:06.

care sector is in crisis? Of course because people judge the care sector

:31:07.:31:09.

or the health service by the own experience. Politicians can come on

:31:10.:31:16.

TV and say we are putting in the extra resources in, so many

:31:17.:31:22.

brilliant... Judgment is made by personal experience. I do not think,

:31:23.:31:28.

as Graham Stewart was saying on the package, the solution is in effect

:31:29.:31:32.

nationalisation because local authorities have a duty to find a

:31:33.:31:37.

place for someone if a care home causes anyway. Let me put that point

:31:38.:31:42.

to you Diana, Jeremy Corbyn says he wants to take failing care homes

:31:43.:31:48.

into public, nationalising the care industry. I think we need to think

:31:49.:31:52.

about how we do that. He has talked about failing care homes. I want to

:31:53.:31:57.

think about how we provide the kind of level of social care across the

:31:58.:32:00.

country that people rightly should expect. You don't agree with Jeremy

:32:01.:32:05.

Corbyn? That as one bed but I do not think that solves the problem of

:32:06.:32:09.

providing good social care around the country. I want to see about

:32:10.:32:12.

local authorities, my own local authority will have taken ?40

:32:13.:32:17.

million out of adult social care from 2010 to 2020 because of

:32:18.:32:20.

Government cuts. To put it all onto Government cuts. To put it all onto

:32:21.:32:24.

local authorities is wrong and that is why the national Government needs

:32:25.:32:27.

to step up to be played here and save as a country we need to

:32:28.:32:38.

think we provide for our elderly population. The heart of this

:32:39.:32:42.

debate, Martin Vickers, is the fact that many councils say we do not

:32:43.:32:44.

have enough money to deliver social care, do they? I am on record in the

:32:45.:32:48.

House of Commons saying that cuts to cancel budget have reached a tipping

:32:49.:32:51.

point now. In fairness, as Theresa May has said, it is not just a

:32:52.:32:55.

matter of putting resources in, it is ensuring that councils and care

:32:56.:33:00.

home operators use those resources to their best. There are many cases

:33:01.:33:05.

where that is not the case. I do agree that has got to be a solution.

:33:06.:33:10.

Whether you could find a cross-party solution, as Diana was mentioning,

:33:11.:33:14.

in all honesty, I rather doubt. I the Labour Party going to give up on

:33:15.:33:19.

attacking the present Government on the NHS because they have reached

:33:20.:33:23.

some agreement? I rather doubt that. Part of the problem with the NHS at

:33:24.:33:27.

the moment as social care and, I think as you said in your

:33:28.:33:32.

introduction, as bed blocking. There are places for people to move onto

:33:33.:33:37.

after the had been in the NHS. If we can get some agreement around social

:33:38.:33:40.

care, that will help in terms of the NHS and budget and the problems the

:33:41.:33:45.

NHS have at the moment. People are asking to Page 3% more on council

:33:46.:33:49.

tax bills. Should they be paying more than that? -- pay more. That 3%

:33:50.:33:55.

from people who are just about managing is a lot to ask. Nationally

:33:56.:34:00.

the Government needs to consider the fact that in Surrey they can ask

:34:01.:34:04.

their council taxpayers to pay a lot more but they have a bigger council

:34:05.:34:08.

taxpayers, they will get more money from the council taxpayer Demi get

:34:09.:34:13.

an Hull. Poor areas will never be able to provide that level of

:34:14.:34:19.

service we need to see for our elderly population. You represent an

:34:20.:34:22.

area that is not swimming in money, those council tax rises are nowhere

:34:23.:34:28.

near going to cover the extra costs of social care? Note, it is to some

:34:29.:34:34.

extent putting a plaster on a gaping wound. When much more serious

:34:35.:34:41.

surgery is needed. It is a stopgap measure. I recognise the fact that

:34:42.:34:48.

the care sector... We all know about ageing populations and the reasons

:34:49.:34:51.

for this, but people do expect higher standards now. Changes in

:34:52.:34:57.

society mean that the elderly zero longer stay with their families or

:34:58.:35:01.

their extended families in the dying years. -- stay longer. It is the

:35:02.:35:09.

biggest issue, certainly in cost terms that Government over the next

:35:10.:35:14.

decade or two it will have two phase. It is an issue we will come

:35:15.:35:20.

back to. Here is more of this week's political views Split-mac news. --

:35:21.:35:24.

political news. Here's Richard Edwards

:35:25.:35:27.

with our round up in 60 seconds. MPs will debate the Brexit bill for

:35:28.:35:29.

the first time next Tuesday, with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn ordering

:35:30.:35:32.

his MPs to back the bill regardless There have already

:35:33.:35:35.

been resignations. A war of words has broken out over

:35:36.:35:42.

a move to scrap the seven district councils in Lincolnshire and replace

:35:43.:35:46.

them with a unitary authority It is a money-saving exercise

:35:47.:35:48.

but will it be popular? Organisations involved in Jo Cox's

:35:49.:35:56.

national lonliness commission met The late MP was passionate

:35:57.:35:58.

about reducing isolation. The commission which she started

:35:59.:36:04.

to organise before her And while Theresa May was a bit busy

:36:05.:36:08.

across the Atlantic, the campaign to honour the last

:36:09.:36:13.

surviving British dambuster went to Downing Street with some

:36:14.:36:16.

celebrity support. Lincolnshire-born Johnny Johnson

:36:17.:36:21.

was part of the crew that destroyed German dams

:36:22.:36:23.

in World War II. More than 200,000 people have signed

:36:24.:36:39.

that petition. The strength of public feeling there is clear. How

:36:40.:36:43.

will you vote when it comes to Article 50? I have signed that

:36:44.:36:46.

petition as well and I got something happens. I have always been clear I

:36:47.:36:51.

am voting to trigger it. The hard work is going to start once that is

:36:52.:36:55.

triggered and the negotiations. Making sure we get the very best

:36:56.:36:59.

deal we can for the people of the United Kingdom and for my

:37:00.:37:04.

constituency in Hull north. Can you understand why some MPs who

:37:05.:37:07.

majority of remained voters, can you majority of remained voters, can you

:37:08.:37:11.

understand why they would defy the Labour whip and vote against a? This

:37:12.:37:14.

has never really been about the whip, this is about listening to

:37:15.:37:20.

what my constituents said. Most of my constituency wanted to leave. I

:37:21.:37:27.

wanted to stay but I respect that. I do understand that it is difficult

:37:28.:37:30.

for MPs if they come from constituencies that have had a very

:37:31.:37:35.

large remain vote. Absolutely, it is difficult but it is not about the

:37:36.:37:38.

whip for me. It is about listening to the constituents and listening to

:37:39.:37:43.

what they are saying to you. At Prime Minister questions the other

:37:44.:37:46.

day, there was a suggestion from Jeremy Corbyn that the Government

:37:47.:37:50.

will not be protecting workers' rights when we leave the European

:37:51.:37:54.

Union, your neighbouring MP came up with a bill that would do just that.

:37:55.:37:57.

Yet the Conservatives topped it down. I am not in the business of

:37:58.:38:05.

reducing the rights of employees in my constituency but the Prime

:38:06.:38:10.

Minister and other ministers have already made very, very clear that

:38:11.:38:14.

there is no intention of reducing workers' rights. To some extent,

:38:15.:38:23.

Melanie's bill was superfluous. Do you think it was superfluous? I am

:38:24.:38:26.

worried about this. The Government could have supported her bill. The

:38:27.:38:31.

good have showed that in good faith we want all the employment rights

:38:32.:38:35.

people have at work to remain in place. They could have decided, as a

:38:36.:38:39.

gesture of goodwill and good faith, to action in support. Things like

:38:40.:38:45.

protection for agency workers and part-time workers, are you convinced

:38:46.:38:48.

they will be enshrined in UK law when we leave the European Union?

:38:49.:38:54.

Many of the rights we talk about were actually enacted by the British

:38:55.:38:58.

Parliament before they became a European responsibility. I have apps

:38:59.:39:03.

are looking no doubt that the overwhelming majority of

:39:04.:39:08.

Conservatives will support enshrining the existing rules into

:39:09.:39:11.

UK law, which is actually what the great repeal act when it comes

:39:12.:39:16.

forward will do. -- absolutely. What guarantees are you looking for,

:39:17.:39:21.

Diana? The bottom line is I want to make sure people I represent a zero

:39:22.:39:25.

worse off and we leave the European Union. I will be looking for

:39:26.:39:31.

guarantees for industries in Holby able to access the European market.

:39:32.:39:34.

It is about jobs and investment in the city. -- industries and Hull.

:39:35.:39:43.

The great repeal act, when it comes, will be spending a lot of time on

:39:44.:39:47.

that because that is a huge amount to do. A huge amount. -- we will be.

:39:48.:39:54.

You have new industries in your constituency connected with

:39:55.:39:56.

renewables on the Humber. You getting positive messages at that

:39:57.:40:02.

Brexit from them or not? Many of the industries... I most certainly am.

:40:03.:40:07.

My constituents know I have been a big supporter of Brexit for the last

:40:08.:40:12.

40 years. I am totally convinced that the country and my constituents

:40:13.:40:16.

will be better off as soon as we can break three from the heavy-handed

:40:17.:40:22.

Europe, which is might in recession. -- Miert. We do not want to upset

:40:23.:40:30.

those Millwall fans. Thank you to Martin Vickers and Diana Johnson.

:40:31.:40:36.

Welcome back and let's get back to Donald Trump's travel ban

:40:37.:40:41.

on refugees and citizens from seven mainly Muslim countries.

:40:42.:40:46.

Earlier, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state

:40:47.:40:49.

visit by President Trump to the UK should not go ahead

:40:50.:40:52.

I think it would be totally wrong for him to be coming here while that

:40:53.:41:04.

situation is going on. He has to be challenged on this. So until the ban

:41:05.:41:09.

is lifted, you don't think he should come? I am not happy about him

:41:10.:41:14.

coming here until the ban is lifted. Look at what is happening with those

:41:15.:41:19.

countries. What will be the long term effect of this on the rest of

:41:20.:41:24.

the world? Is this state visit going to become a matter of huge political

:41:25.:41:29.

debate in this country? It would be anyway, but it is a temporary ban,

:41:30.:41:33.

so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe territory. It will be over by April

:41:34.:41:37.

and he is not due to come until summer. But there are three bands.

:41:38.:41:42.

There is the 90 day ban on people coming from the southern countries.

:41:43.:41:47.

There is the 120 day ban on refugees from anywhere in the world, and

:41:48.:41:51.

there is the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees. So there may still

:41:52.:41:56.

be some bans in place. But bear in mind the number of Syrian refugees

:41:57.:42:00.

and refugees from around the world that President Obama took over his

:42:01.:42:04.

eight years. There were years when it was not even up to 50 Syrian

:42:05.:42:08.

refugees that were taken since the civil war has started. This is an

:42:09.:42:14.

ongoing American policy. 12,500 Syrian refugees have come in the

:42:15.:42:19.

last year. Before that, it was a hundred and sometimes under 50. But

:42:20.:42:27.

they are reasonable numbers now, although not something America

:42:28.:42:31.

couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is discovering that being a president

:42:32.:42:37.

is different from being a business man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn

:42:38.:42:40.

the art of leadership, having been a backbench MP, and has struggled to

:42:41.:42:45.

do it, as we are about to discuss with article 50. With this, you have

:42:46.:42:49.

to dramatise the politics of this, and this is what he has done with

:42:50.:42:54.

that statement. Most controversial ever state visit now? I would

:42:55.:42:59.

imagine so. Even regardless of any opposition from the opposition to

:43:00.:43:04.

trump's physical presence in the streets, the presence of

:43:05.:43:08.

demonstrators will be an international new story. If trump's

:43:09.:43:12.

demands for the details of the visit are quite as extreme and as picky as

:43:13.:43:16.

some of the Sunday papers have suggested, that could also be the

:43:17.:43:20.

source of controversy. What do you have in mind? Isn't he anxious that

:43:21.:43:24.

only certain members of the Royal Family turn up? He doesn't want a

:43:25.:43:28.

one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who would, though! Some people may be

:43:29.:43:37.

sympathetic on that. It is the one subject where he is in line with

:43:38.:43:41.

British opinion. Playing golf in front of the Queen may be a higher

:43:42.:43:46.

priority. We have to be realistic. Given the other people from around

:43:47.:43:49.

the world that the Queen has played host to, like the Chinese president

:43:50.:43:52.

and Saudi kings and the like, we have had a lot worse come to visit

:43:53.:43:58.

than Donald Trump. Brexit - how serious our neighbour's problems on

:43:59.:44:03.

this? Very serious, but they often are with Europe. Labour were splits

:44:04.:44:07.

when we joined in the 70s, and still won general elections, in 1974 and

:44:08.:44:13.

1975. There were all over the place in terms of the single currency.

:44:14.:44:17.

Blair said one thing one day and the opposite the next day. Brown did the

:44:18.:44:18.

same. Brown usually set the opposite of

:44:19.:44:31.

what Blair said! They won landslide because they have the political

:44:32.:44:36.

skills to put all of the pressure on the major government, even though

:44:37.:44:38.

their position on the single currency was the same as major's. It

:44:39.:44:43.

is about with Europe the art of leadership. You have to be a

:44:44.:44:49.

political conjuror, you have to dissemble authoritative leak when

:44:50.:44:52.

you lead a divided party over Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his

:44:53.:44:56.

personal credit cannot dissemble, but he's not an individual person on

:44:57.:45:02.

this. He's leading a split party in danger of falling apart, and you

:45:03.:45:07.

need the skills of a political conjurer. Clearly self-evidently

:45:08.:45:11.

he's not displaying it because we are talking about the chaotic split

:45:12.:45:15.

which will manifest itself in that vote on Article 50. Labour and the

:45:16.:45:19.

SNP and the Lib Dems too I would have thought will all put amendments

:45:20.:45:24.

down to the short Article 50 piece of legislation. Do they have any

:45:25.:45:30.

chance of succeeding? No substantial world is changing amendments. I

:45:31.:45:34.

don't think Theresa May has much to worry about actually. I think if

:45:35.:45:39.

anything the reason she's pushed the legal appeal is that it helps her to

:45:40.:45:42.

have a big chunk of the media and a big chunk of public opinion worrying

:45:43.:45:47.

that the popular will of last year is in danger of being overturned and

:45:48.:45:52.

so even if it was a completely hopeless legal appeal, it generated

:45:53.:45:57.

headlines for a week that as an incumbent Prime Minister trying to

:45:58.:46:01.

execute believe vote suits you politically. I think it is a much

:46:02.:46:05.

bigger problem for Labour, we've already seen some Shadow Cabinet

:46:06.:46:09.

issues in the previous week. You have got to remember it's not just a

:46:10.:46:13.

majority of Labour MPs that want to stay in the European Union, but a

:46:14.:46:20.

majority of Labour constituencies, and a majority of labour macro

:46:21.:46:23.

voters wanted to stay as well so we have three lines of division. One

:46:24.:46:28.

amendment that might get through if it was called, and it is in the

:46:29.:46:31.

hands of the Deputy speaker who will be chairing these debates, and that

:46:32.:46:35.

will be an amendment that said regardless of how the Europeans

:46:36.:46:39.

treat our citizens in Europe, all EU citizens here will be afforded full

:46:40.:46:44.

rights to remain. That might get through. It may indeed and lots of

:46:45.:46:53.

backbench MPs would backpack. We all know there will not be mass

:46:54.:46:58.

deportations, it is not legal, it won't happen, it is simply a

:46:59.:47:02.

negotiating tactic. I agree with those who say you shouldn't be using

:47:03.:47:06.

people as a negotiating tactic, but the reality as it is the EU leaders

:47:07.:47:11.

that are doing that because it's already been offered. The remain as

:47:12.:47:15.

should be attacking the EU governments for not offering that in

:47:16.:47:20.

return. Article 50 is the easy bit for her. I agree with other members

:47:21.:47:24.

of the panel that she will get it through and the court case almost

:47:25.:47:28.

helps her by getting an easy journey through Parliament, then it gets

:47:29.:47:32.

really difficult. All of this has been a preamble and once she begins

:47:33.:47:37.

that nightmarish negotiation, there will be opportunities for a smart

:47:38.:47:42.

opposition to make quite a lot of the turmoil to come. Whether Labour

:47:43.:47:49.

are capable of that, let's wait and see. The divisions in Labour are

:47:50.:47:55.

nightmarish for them but by no means unprecedented. Arguably it was much

:47:56.:47:59.

more complicated in the early 1970s when you had Titans on either side,

:48:00.:48:04.

big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony Benn... Michael Foot, they were all

:48:05.:48:13.

at it. The fundamental issue of in or out, and they won two elections,

:48:14.:48:18.

so you have got to be really clever. But also how money more Labour MPs

:48:19.:48:23.

will resign. We shall find out this week.

:48:24.:48:26.

The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday and all

:48:27.:48:29.

I'll be back here on BBC one next week.

:48:30.:48:32.

Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:48:33.:49:06.

a free five-a-side tournament that's for everyone.

:49:07.:49:21.

For more information, go to the Get Inspired website.

:49:22.:49:25.

Andrew Neil and Tim Iredale are joined by Nigel Farage, MEP. The Political Panel consists of Janan Ganesh of the Financial Times, Julia Hartley-Brewer of talkRADIO and journalist Steve Richards.