14/05/2017 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire

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Andrew Neil and Tim Iredale are joined by shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey, housing minister Brandon Lewis and American political pollster Frank Luntz.

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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.


Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes


in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -


Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax


to fund public services, but will traders just


Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,


insists he can win this election - so which way will


We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds.


On the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire:


The EU migrants watching our election campaign very closely.


What do they think about the debate surrounding immigration?


saying about tackling the air pollution problem in London.


And with me, our own scientifically selected focus group


of political pundits - they're not so much


undecided as clueless - Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott


They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.


So, we've got two new policies this morning.


Labour say they will introduce a financial transaction tax


if they win the general election and what they're calling


"the biggest crackdown on tax avoidance in the country's history".


The Conservatives say they'll work with local authorities in England


to build council houses with the right to buy.


Theresa May says the policy "will help thousands of people


get on the first rung of the housing ladder".


Steve, what do you make of them? I have been conditioned after doing


tax and spend debates in pre-election periods for many


decades to treat policy is not as literal but as arguments. In other


words if you look back to 2015 the Tory plan to wipe out the deficit


was never going to happen and yet it framed and large event. In that


sense the Robin Hood tax is a sensible move for Labour to make at


this point because it is part of a narrative of reconfiguring taxation


to be fair. Treating it as an argument rather than something that


would happen in day one of Labour government is sensible. In terms of


building houses Theresa May said right from the beginning when she


was in Number Ten that there is a housing deficit in this country


rather than the economic deficit George Osborne was focusing on, and


this is an example of trying to get house-building going. It seems


entirely sensible, not sure how it works with right to buy but again as


framing of a 90 minute it makes sense. I disagree with Steve on one


front which is how sensible Theresa May's policy is on the housing


announcement. I think more broadly these two announcements have


something in common which is that over the next 24 hours both will


probably unravel in different ways. Ye of little faith! The Mayor of


London has already said he doesn't agree with this, and when people see


the actual impact of what looks like a populist tax will very potentially


affect people's pensions, it might become a lot less popular. On the


Tory housing plans, I think it is difficult to imagine how they are


going to implement this huge, what looks like a huge land and property


grab. Through compulsory purchase orders, which are not a simple


instrument. They say they will change the law but really the idea


of paying people below the market value for their assets is not


something I can see sitting easily with Tory backbenchers or the Tories


in the House of Lords. Tom. Both would appear superficially to be


appealing to traditional left and traditional right bases. What is


more Tory than right to buy, then councils sell on these houses, and


Labour slapping a massive tax on the city. The Tories' plan, I would say


look a bit deeper and all of the Tory narrative from the last six


years which hasn't worked well is talking about the private sector


increasing supply in the market. Now Mrs May is talking about the role


for the state after all so this is the shift creeping in. On the Labour


transaction tax, one of the most interesting things I heard in days


was from Paul Mason, former BBC correspondent, now a cog in Easter


extreme. On Newsnight he said don't worry about whether the Labour


manifesto will add up, I'm promising it will, the bigger Tory attack line


should be what on earth will be the macroeconomic effect of taking so


much tax out of the system. Very well, we shall see. At least we have


some policies to talk about. Now, on Tuesday Labour


will launch its manifesto. But we've already got a pretty good


idea of what's in it - that's because most of its contents


were leaked to the media Labour has a variety of spending


pledges including an extra ?6 billion a year for the NHS,


an additional ?8 billion for social care over the lifetime


of the next parliament, as well as a ?250 billion


in infrastructure over The party will support the renewal


of the Trident submarine system, although any Prime Minister should


be extremely cautious about its use, and the party


will hold a strategic defence and security review immediately


after the election. In terms of immigration,


Labour will seek "reasonable management of migration",


but it will not make "false Elsewhere, university tuition


fees will be abolished, and the public sector pay cap,


which limits pay rises for public sector workers


to 1%, will be scrapped. The party also aims to renationalise


the railways, the Royal Mail and the National Grid,


as well as creating at least one A senior Labour backbencher


described it to the Sunday Politics as a manifesto for a leadership


who don't "give a toss about the wider public",


and several other Labour candidates told us they thought it


had been deliberately leaked by the leadership,


with one suggesting the leak was intended to "bounce


the National Executive" And we're joined now from Salford


by the Shadow Business Secretary, Welcome to the programme. The draft


manifesto proposed to renationalise the number of industry. You will


wait for the franchises to run out rather than buy them out at the


moment so can you confirm the railways will not be wholly


nationalised until 2030, after three Labour governments, and Jeremy


Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to comment on leaks, you will just have


to be patient and wait to see what is in our manifesto. But you have


already announced you will nationalise the railways, so tell me


about it. We have discussed taking the franchises into public ownership


as they expire, however the detail will be set out in the manifesto so


I'm not prepared to go into detail until that policy is formally laid


out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound very hopeful but let's carry on. You


will also nationalise the National Grid, it has a market capitalisation


of ?40 billion, why do you want to nationalise that? Again, I'm not


going to speculate on leaks, you will just have to be patient. But


you said you will nationalise the National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks


have suggested but you will just have to wait and see what the final


manifesto states on that one. So is it a waste of time me asking you how


you will pay for something that costs 40 billion? Be patient, just


couple of days to go, but what I would say is there is growing


pressure from the public to reform the utilities sector. The


Competition and Markets Authority stated in 2015 that bill payers were


paying over till debt -- ?2 billion in excess of what they should be


paying so there is a clear need for reform. The bills we get are from


the energy companies, you are not going to nationalise them, you are


going to nationalise the distribution company and I wondered


what is the case for nationalising the distribution company? As I said,


our full plans will be set out on Tuesday. In relation to the big six


energy companies, we know in recent years they have been overcharging


customers... There's no point in answering questions I am not asking.


I am asking what is the case for nationalising the National Grid?


There is a case for reforming the energy sector as a whole and that


looks at the activities of the big six companies and it will look at


other aspects too. You will have to be patient and wait until Tuesday.


What about the Royal Mail? Again, you will have to wait until Tuesday.


Why can't you just be honest with the British voter? We know you are


going to do this and you have a duty to explain. I'm not even arguing


whether it is right or wrong. The Royal Mail was sold off and we know


it was sold under value and British taxpayers have a reason to feel


aggrieved about that. There is a long-term strategy that would ensure


the Royal Mail was classified as a key piece of infrastructure but the


details of that will be set out in our manifesto because we want to


ensure businesses and households ensure the best quality of service


when it comes to their postal providers. You plan to borrow an


extra 25 billion per year, John McDonnell has already announced


this, on public investment, on top of the around 50 billion already


being planned for investment. You will borrow it all so that means, if


you can confirm, that many years after the crash by 2021, Labour


government would still be borrowing 75 billion a year. Is that correct?


We have set out ?250 billion of capital investment, and ?250 billion


for a national investment bank. Our financial and fiscal rules dictate


we will leave the Government in a state of less debt than we found it


at the start of the parliament so we won't increase the national debt at


the end of our Parliamentary term. How can you do that if by 2021 you


will still be borrowing around 75 billion a year, which is more than


we borrow at the moment? The 500 billion figure is set out over a


period of ten years, it's a figure that has been suggested by Peter


Helm from Oxford University as a figure that is necessary to bring us


in line with other industrial competitors. Similar figures have


been suggested by groups such as the CBI. By the way I have not included


all 500 billion, just the 250 billion on public spending, not the


extra money. You talk about the fiscal rules. The draft manifesto


said you will leave debt as a proportion of trend GDP law at the


end of each parliament, you have just said a version of that. What is


trend GDP? In clear terms we will ensure the debt we acquire will be


reduced by the end of the parliament. We won't leave the


Government finances in a worse state than we found them. OK, but what is


trend GDP? Our rule is we will ensure public sector net debt is


less than we found it when we came to power in Government on June the


8th. But that is not what your draft manifesto says. I'm not going to


comment on leaks, you are just going to have to wait until Tuesday to


look at the fine detail and perhaps we will have another chat then. You


have published your plans for corporation tax and you will


increase it by a third and your predictions assumed that will get an


extra 20 billion a year by the end of the parliament. But that assumes


the companies don't change their behaviour, that they move money


around, they leave the country or they generate smaller profits. Is


that realistic? You are right to make that point and you will see


when we set out our policies and costings in the manifesto that we


haven't spent all of the tax take. We have allowed for different


differentials and potential changes in market activity because that


would be approved and direction to take. But corporation tax is allowed


to be cut in France and the United States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin.


Many companies based in Britain are already wondering whether they


should relocate because of Brexit, if you increase this tax by a third


couldn't that clinch it for a number of them? No, we will still be one of


the lowest corporation tax rate in the G7. Let's look at what's


important for business. Cutting corporation tax in itself doesn't


improve productivity, or business investment and there's no suggestion


cutting corporation tax in recent years has achieved that. Businesses


need an investment in tools in things they need to thrive and


prosper, they also need to reduce the burden at the lower end of the


tax scale, before we get to the Prophet stage. One key example is


business rates. We have made the proposal to government to in --


exclude machinery so businesses can invest and grow operations in the


future but the Government refused. Corporation tax has been cut since


2010. When it was 28% it brought in ?43 billion a year. Now it is down


to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a year. By cutting it in the last


year, it brought in 21% more, so what is the problem? It might have


brought in more money, but has it increased business investment in the


long term. It is not just about cutting corporation tax, but it is


on the ability of businesses to thrive and prosper. Business


investment in the UK is below are industrial competitors. Wages are


stagnating which doesn't indicate businesses are not doing well. Let


me get it right, you are arguing if we increase business tax by a third,


that will increase investment? I am not saying that. You just did. Know


I didn't, I said reducing business tax isn't enough, you have to invest


in the things businesses need to thrive and prosper. You have also


got to lessen the burden on business. You have announced a


financial transaction tax. Your own labour Mayor of London said he has


vowed to fight it. He said I do not want a unilateral tax on business in


our city, so why are you proceeding with it? This isn't a new


initiative, there is a growing global pressure to make sure we have


fairness in the financial sector. Ordinary British people are paying


for our banking crisis they didn't cause. Another important point,


stamp duty reserve tax was brought in in the 1600 and there have been


little reforms. The sector has changed and we have do provide


changes to the system for that change. High-frequency trading where


we have a state of affairs where a lot of shares are traded on


computers within milliseconds. We need a tax system that keeps up with


that. What happens if they move the computers to another country? Emily


Thornaby said this morning, other countries had already introduced a


financial transaction tax, what other countries have done that?


There are ten countries looking at introducing a transaction tax. Which


ones have done it so far? They will be later announcing a final package,


going through the finer detail at the moment. But the European


Commission tried to get this done in 2011 and it still hasn't happened in


any of these countries. But you are going to go ahead unilaterally and


risk these businesses, which generate a lot of money, moving to


other jurisdictions. There is not a significant risk of that happening.


The stamp duty reserve tax is levied at either where the person or


company is domiciled or where the instrument is issued rather than


worth the transaction takes place. This tax in itself is not enough to


make people leave this country in terms of financial services because


there is more to keep these businesses here in terms of the


investment we are making, the economy that Labour will build, in


terms of productivity improvement we will see. Thank you very much,


Rebecca Long-Bailey. And listening to that was the Home


Office Minister, Brandon Lewis. Over the years, you have got


corporation tax by 20%, it is lower than international standards, so why


are so many global companies who make money out of Great Britain,


still not paying 20%? It is one of the problems with the point Labour


were making and Rebecca could not answer, these companies can move


around the world. One of the important things is having a low tax


economy but these businesses, it encourages them to come at a rate


they are prepared to pay. People may say they are right, if they were


paying 19, 20% incorporation tax. But they are not. Google runs a


multi-million pound corporation and did not pay anywhere near 20%. There


are companies that are trading internationally and that is why we


have to get this work done with our partners around the world. Has there


been an improvement? It is more than they were paying before. Whether it


is Google or any other company, alongside them being here, apart


from the tax they pay, it is the people they employ. The deal was, if


you cut the business tax, the corporation tax on profits, we would


get more companies coming here and more companies paying their tax. It


seems it doesn't matter how low, a number of companies just pay a


derisory amount and you haven't been able to change that. As you


outlined, the income taken from the changing corporation tax has gone


up. That is from established British companies, not from these


international companies. It is because more companies are coming


here and paying tax. That is a good thing. There is always more to do


and that is why we want to crack down. In the last few weeks in the


Finnish Parliament, Labour refused to put to another ?8.7 billion of


tax take we could have got by cracking down further. You claim to


have made great progress on cracking down on people and companies to pay


the tax they should. But the tax gap is the difference between what HMRC


takes in and what it should take in. It has barely moved in five years,


so where is the progress? He have brought in 150 billion more where we


have cracked down on those tax schemes. The gap is still the same


as it was five years ago. It's gone from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down.


The Prime Minister and the Chancellor said they want to


continue work on to get more money on these companies while still


having a competitive rate to encourage these companies. While big


business and the wealthy continue to prosper, the Office for Budget


Responsibility tell us those on average earnings in this country


will be earning less in real terms by 2021 than they did in 2008. How


can that be fair? I don't see it that way. I haven't seen the figures


you have got. What I can say to you, Andrew, we have made sure the


minimum wage has gone up, the actual income tax people pay has gone down.


So in their pocket, real terms, people have more money. You are the


self-styled party of work. We keep emphasising work. Under your


government you can work for 13 years and still not earn any more at the


end of it, and you did at the start. Where is the reward for effort in


that? I have not seen those figures. There are 2.8 million more people,


more jobs in economy than there was. 1000 jobs every day and people are


working and developing through their careers. This is what I thought was


odd in what Rebecca was saying, investing in people is what the


apprenticeship levy is about, companies are investing their works


force to take more opportunities that there. We are talking about


fairness, politicians talk about hard-working people and we know the


average earnings are no higher than they were in 2008. We know the pay


and bonuses of senior executives have continued to grow and the


Institute for Fiscal Studies has shown 3 million of the poorest


households will lose an average of ?2500 a year in the next Parliament,


benefits frozen, further sanctions kick in. 3 million of the poorest


losing 2500. Under the Tories, one law for the rich and another for the


poor. It is quite wrong. First of all, we have got to be fair to the


taxpayer who is funding the welfare and benefit system. Which is why the


welfare was right. Get more people in work and then it is important to


get more people upscaling. As that allowance rises, people have more of


the money they earn in their pocket to be able to use in the economy.


People will be worse off. 2500, among the poorest already. They will


have more money in their pocket as we increase the allowance before


people pay tax. We have seen millions of people coming out of tax


altogether. The reason I ask these questions, you and the Prime


Minister go on and on about the just about managing classes. I am talking


about the just about managing and below that. It is all talk, you


haven't done anything for them. We have made sure they have an


increasing minimum wage, it has gone up more under us than any other


previous government. Their wages will be still lower in real terms.


Let me come on to this plan for housing. We have announced a new


plan to increase affordable housing, social housing, some council housing


and social housing built by the associations. How much money is


behind this? It is part of the 1.4 billion announced in the Autumn


Statement. How many homes will you get for 1.4 billion? That depends on


the negotiations with local authorities. It is local


authorities, who know the area best. I will not put a number on that. 1.4


billion, if you price the house at 100,000, which is very low,


particularly for the South, back at you 14,000 new homes. That is it.


What we have seen before, how the local government can leveraged to


build thousands more homes. That is what we want to see across the


country. It is not just about the money, for a lot of local


authorities it is about the expertise and knowledge on how to do


this. That is why support from the housing communities minister will


help. What is the timescale, how many more affordable homes will be


built? I will not put a number on it. You announced it today, so you


cannot tell me how many more or what the target is? It is a matter of


working with the local authorities who know what their local needs are,


what land they have got available. What we saw through the local


elections with the Metro mayors, they want to deliver in their areas,


whether it is the West of England, the north-east, Liverpool,


Manchester and we want to work with them. You have said variations of


this for the past seven years and I want some credibility. When you


cannot tell us how much money, what the target and timescale is, and


this government, under which affordable house building has fallen


to a 24 year low. 1.2 million families are on waiting lists for


social housing to rent. That is your record. Why should we believe a word


you say? This is different to what we have been doing over the last two


years. We want to develop and have a strong and stable economy that can


sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This is important. In 2010, we inherited


the lowest level of house building, 75,000 new homes. That is about


189,000 over the last four years. That is a big step forward after the


crash, getting people back into the industry. More first-time buyers


onto the market. Final question, in 2010, 2011, your first year in


government, there were 60,000 affordable homes built. May not be


enough, but last day it was 30 2000. So why should we trust anything you


say about this? On housing, we have delivered. We have delivered more


social housing. Double what Labour did in 13 years, in just five years.


This is what this policy is about, working with local authorities to


deliver more homes to people in their local areas. Thank you.


Now, they have a deficit of between 15 and 20% in the polls,


but Jeremy Corbyn and those around him insist Labour can win.


If the polls are right they've got three and half weeks to change


voters' minds and persuade those fabled undecided voters


We enlisted the polling organisation YouGov to help us find out how


the performance of party leaders will affect behaviour


Leeds, a city of three quarters of a million people,


eight Parliamentary seats and home to our very own focus group.


Our panel was recruited from a variety of backgrounds


and the majority say they haven't decided who to vote for yet.


Watching behind the glass, two experts on different sides


Giles Cunningham, who headed up political press at Downing Street


under David Cameron and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter,


under David Cameron and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter,


I think Theresa May sees herself as a pound shop Thatcher.


Milliband's policies but when it came


about who you want, if you wake up on maybe a 2015,


We found in a couple of focus groups, people saying


we'd be quite relieved, even though some of those same


people have been saying we quite like the Labour policies.


I think the fact that Corbyn's going so hard on his values,


this is a really progressive manifesto, they live


But I think that's a new challenge, that wasn't there in 2015.


Is there anyone here that you don't recognise?


After a little warm up, the first exercise, recognising


I think it's nice to have a strong woman in politics, I do.


But I've got to say, when she comes on the news,


I kind of do think, here we go again.


Tell me about Tim Farron, what are your impressions of Tim Farron?


It isn't going to do anything, it isn't going to change anything.


You'll be surprised to hear it's actually the Greens.


Strong and stable leadership in the national interest.


Yes, Team May, it's the British equivalent of make


What do we think about this one for the many and not the few?


It's not quite as bad as strong and stable,


but it will probably get on our nerves after a while.


We must seize that chance today and every day until June the 8th.


But that's not quite my question, my question is,


if you are Prime Minister, we will leave, come hell or high


water, whatever is on the table at the end of the negotiations?


If we win the election, we'll get a good deal with Europe.


Assertive and in control and he felt comfortable


But the second one, I thought he was very hesitant.


I thought he was kind of, hovering around, skirting around


and that's the second time I've seen a similar


interview with the question being asked regarding Brexit.


I don't think I'd have any confidence with him


You think you are going up against some quite strong people,


how are you going to stand up for us?


When you are in negotiations, you need to be tough.


And actually is right to be tough sometimes,


particularly when you are doing something for the country.


There's a reason for talking about strong and stable leadership.


It's about the future of the country, it's


It's just that people kind of listen to that kind of thing and think


Both on The One Show and in the news.


She attracts the public better than what Corbyn does.


She didn't answer the question in a more articular way than Corbyn


Imagine that Theresa May is an animal.


So, in your minds, what animal is coming to mind


I've done a Pekinese because I think she's all bark and no bite.


Alpaca because she's superior looking and woolly


I don't think his policies are for the modern, real world.


A mouse because they are weak and they can be easily bullied,


but also they can catch you by surprise if you're


What do you take away from what you saw then,


and what message would you send back to the Tories now?


I think what came over is people see Theresa May as a strong politician,


not everyone likes her, but you don't need to be


liked to be elected, because ultimately it's about who do


you trust with your future and your security.


I think what I also take out of that focus group,


was it was a group of floating voters, there was no huge appetite


for the Lib Dems and there was no huge appetite for Ukip.


So my messaged back to CCHQ would be stick to the plan.


I thought the response to the manifesto was excellent.


It's clear that people aren't particularly keen on Theresa May,


There are some associations with her about strength and stability,


which is exactly what the Tory party want of course, but they are not


positive and nobody thinks that she has a vision


So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn, what I'd say to the Labour Party is,


they need to really emphasise the manifesto in


Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform out of his skin and I think


he has to reemphasise those characteristics which may be have


come to the fore may be over the last 12 months,


resilience, strength and the fact that he's come this far,


why not take that final step and go into ten Downing Street?


We're joined now by the American political consultant


For the sake of this discussion, assume the polls at the moment are


broadly right, is there any hope for Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters?


Know, and this is a very serious collection with serious consequences


to who wins. Nobody cares whether you can draw and what animal they


represent, they want to know where they stand, and I felt that was


frivolous. I come to Britain to watch elections because I learned


from here. Your elections are more substantial, more serious, more


policy and less about personality and that peace was only about


personality. That's partly because Mrs May has decided to make this a


presidential election. You can see on the posters it is all Team May. I


agree with that, and in her language she says not everyone benefits from


a Conservative government, I don't see how using anything Republicans


have used in the past. In fact her campaign is more of a centrist


Democrats but it is a smart strategy because it pushes Corbyn further to


the left. Of course you said Hillary Clinton have won. On election night


the polling was so bad in America, the exit polls that were done, the


BBC told America she had won. No, I was anchoring the programme that


night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC had the same numbers. Yes, but we


did not say she had won, I can assure you of that. Because of


people like you we thought she had but we didn't broadcast it. That was


a smart approach. My point is other than teasing you, maybe there is


hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you will have one of the lowest turnout


in modern history and I think Labour will fall to one of the lowest


percentages, not percentage of number of seats they have had, and


this will be a matter of soul-searching for both political


parties. What you do with a sizeable majority, and she has a


responsibility to tell the British people exactly what happens as she


moves forward. He and Labour will have to take a look at whether they


still represent a significant slice of the British population. Do you


see a realignment in British politics taking place? I see a


crumbling of the left and yet there is still a significant percentage of


the British population that once someone who is centre-left. And they


like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies. I'm listening to Michael foot. I


went to school here in the 1980s and I feel like I'm watching the Labour


Party of 35 years ago, in a population that wants to focus on


the future, not the past. Thank you. It's just gone 11.35,


you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers


in Scotland, who leave us now Hello you're watching


the Sunday Politics Is Labour facing its Last Tango


in Halifax or could voters end up dancing to a different tune


to the one many predict? What can Halifax tell us


about the mood of the nation? I think the NHS, ambulance


and police service. And the EU migrants watching our


election campaign very closely. What do they think about the debate


surrounding immigration? You have the normal concerns, food,


job, friends, you have a plan what to do and then you have the news of


Brexit. We are treated like bargaining chips.


If Theresa May is to achieve her aim of increasing her majority


in parliament, then Halifax is a must-win seat for the Tories.


In 2015, Labour won Halifax with a majority of just 428 votes.


Labour say they'll fight hard to retain all the seats they're


defending across Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire.


But of course, the voters will have the final verdict


and here's what some voters in Halifax are saying about


The biggest issue is the Tories taking over


Personally, I voted to leave the EU because I think it will be better


for England and Britain to be able to trade freely with America


and China and all the big trading blocks and for us to have free


Theresa May is picking over the corpse of England.


The NHS is going to go and everything else will follow it.


I think tax and the financial system, because when I'm older


What is the biggest issue in the election?


I think NHS, ambulance and the police service.


People are wondering whether to remain or not


It is confusing a lot of people and it is dividing a lot


We are joined today by three of the candidates in the Halifax


constituency. Labour's Holly Lynch, Liberal Democrat and Ukip candidate.


The Conservative candidate has declined our invitation to take part


in this programme. Every political number cruncher you speak to has


Halifax town as a Conservative game based on the size of the Tory


leader. You must be gloomy about your prospects? We have always known


it has been a key marginal. It is a battle ground people look at going


into a general election. We knew that when I became the MP to years


ago. I have not been complacent in that time. We have hit the ground


running as a local party. The things we have been keen to work on. We had


the last Tango in Halifax and allergy but it has not been happy


Valley under this Conservative Government either. Cuts to policing,


education and squeeze is on the NHS. People are not happy about and it


has come up on the doorsteps. You were campaigning to remain within


the European union. Your constituency is in favour of leaving


the European Union, does that make you vulnerable? I did go into the


referendum as a remain porter but I am a Democrat and I recognise the


referendum. We are keen to get on with this process of Brexit and it


is coming up on the doorsteps. We have had conversations with 7000


people going into this general election. It is interesting that


Theresa May triggered Article 50 and the first thing she did was postpone


the negotiations to have a general election. We want get on with that


process but we have seen these issues coming up on the doorstep.


James Baker, the last general election, the Liberal Democrat


candidate came a distant fourth lost his deposit. Halifax is a battle


between Labour and the Tories. You do not stand a chance, do you?


Things can only improve. I have a great track record as a local


councillor representing people in Halifax. I am someone who delivers


and offering people something unique in this election. You have other


candidates who are going to be supporting a hard Brexit, which will


be damaging to jobs and the economy in Halifax. We rely on Lloyds and


large companies like Nestle, if you lose those then people are going to


suffer. I am the only candidate that is offering people a final say on


the Brexit deal so they can have a choice whether they want to accept


the deal that politicians negotiate whether they want to reject it and a


chance to stay in the EU. URL Ukip candidate. It is surprising that


Ukip are not standing in many constituencies in Yorkshire and


Lincolnshire riveted stand and the last election. Why have you chosen


to stand in Halifax? Ukip as a guard dogs of Brexit. People in Halifax


voted overwhelmingly during the referendum to leave the European


union. We want to put a strong voice on that's not forget that Brexit has


not happened yet. Nothing has been delivered. There were delays in


writing a letter to say we were leaving. The people of Halifax need


a strong voice to go to Westminster and say we demanded to leave and


that is what is going to happen. The question we are asking is will


Brexit trump traditional loyalties on major issues?


This morning we're looking at immigration - and education.


In recent months teachers' unions have been speaking out


The government says it is looking to correct historical imbalances


But we've spoken to one parent in Calderdale,


a mother of five children, who has begun campaigning


against what she claims are gravely damaging cuts in her part


What we are seeing in Calderdale is schools which have already had


to meet a number of redundancies, which are already losing staff,


class sizes are increasing and problems are occurring.


Children are being asked to pay for exercise books.


In some schools the head teachers are actively asking parents


to contribute to school funding and in some cases actually asking


if they can set up a direct debit so they are getting a regular source


of funding to the school on a regular basis.


One school, for example, here in Calderdale just a couple


of miles away from where we are, is subject to cuts of over half


And have already had to make several redundancies,


resulting in the loss of number of teachers, support staff


It means they can offer a lot less subjects as a school.


Not so far away from here, one school who only 12 subjects


There has been a significant reduction in language.


Design and technology subjects have been scrapped.


And music and art have also been very hardly hit.


Teachers are becoming increasingly stressed


50% of more experienced teachers are wanting to quit over the next


two years and headteachers in particular are finding it really


difficult to recruit teachers, especially in the areas


My fears going into the election is that this subject has


How much longer can it go on before schools are literally


brought to their knees and many of them start fail?


Well, in the absence of the Conservative candidate,


we asked for a Conservative Party statement on education funding -


and they told us that the government has been putting record investment


into schools, protecting core schools budgets,


and consulting on a fairer funding formula which it will further


Holly Lynch, nobody wants to see bigger class sizes and fewer


teachers. Where are Labour going to find the money to plug the black


hole in the education budget? Some of the details for this will be in


our manifesto which is out next week. We are looking at corporation


tax any way of launching an education service, doing things


differently. We all want to see a differently. We all want to see a


good, well funded quality education that is available to everybody. That


is not what is happening at the moment. Headteachers across Halifax


are really desperate about the financial situation. I have been


meeting with those teachers and we have secured a meeting with the


schools minister. That was cancelled because of this general election.


This Government did not want to talk about education but people do. ?5


billion. Jeremy Corbyn said he would put ?5 billion extra into schools.


Down the back of which so far is it going to find that money? This is


looking at how he can use corporation tax. When I meet with


businesses, we are talking about how this would be cost-effective.


Businesses are talking about the skills gap where people do not have


the skills and the qualifications that we need is a thriving economy.


This is one of the ways we are looking to do that. You are going to


tax businesses more. Assuming those companies do not leave the country


and the economy continues at the same pace it is doing now, those


sums do not add up, do they? Education is so important. If we


wanted a thriving economy and bright future for this country, we have to


get education right. The details will be a neat manifesto next week.


We are looking at doing that whilst protecting Smalls businesses. Can we


trust the liberal Democrats again after you broke your promise on


Jewish and fees? You can trust me. Education is -- education fees. She


went off to university part-time. I have seen the power education can


change lives. The education premium to give money to the most


disadvantaged children to make sure there is a level playing field. We


are committed to improving the educational opportunities are people


in Halifax. Halifax under the Conservative Government in Halifax,


people's education has fallen behind. We are behind the national


averages and I want to tackle that as MP. All I know about Ukip


education policy is that you want more grammar schools. Is that about


it? We do and we want technical schools as well. There is more to it


than that. I think when people see that video that we have seen, it is


disgraceful with the Conservative cuts that they are not coming to


talk about today. I think when people are out there and they are


saying we're going to vote Conservatives because of Brexit, the


also need to at things like that we are when they are voting for the


Conservatives, they are voting for cuts in the area. I using Ukip wants


more money put into schools? We would you find that from? A good


place to start would be the foreign aid budget. 13.2 billion last year.


Which we would significantly cut to spend more money in this country and


Halifax. Calderdale has two grammar schools. Would you support my


grammar schools in your area? No, we are different in Halifax. Two of the


secondary schools are grammar schools. Where trees are made as


seeing that grammar schools are the future. -- Theresa May. Grammar


schools are coming to me saying we have to make desperate decisions


about staff and resources and they cannot see a financial future at the


moment. She is not funding the grammar schools we have got properly


so how can we trust her judgment on grammar schools in the future? I


presume Ukip would want to see my grammar schools? And to be clear,


technical skills. There are a lot of people out there who are more


technically minded and would have a far better opportunity if they went


to a technical school in order to learn about the technology. What is


wrong with that, more technical schools? Teach children practical


skills. There is nothing wrong with teaching children practical skills.


We have an effect of College in Calderdale that does that already


and they have a great track record of success. The problem with grammar


schools, they are not working and they are not helping the people who


do not get into the grammar schools. We see a situation where the


children who can afford it, pay for extra tuition. It is not helping to


tackle the problems. There is a lack of social mobility and to many


people think they do not have the life chances that other people may


have. We need to improve those life opportunities for people living in


Halifax. I am sure at this debate will go on long after this election


campaign, no doubt. Now - our cameras have been out


in the fields of Yorkshire this week as both Labour and Conservative


party leaders arrived in the region to set


out their policies on immigration. Freedom of movement of workers


was a crucial battleground for leavers and remainers


in the referendum last June. Almost a year on, we sent


Richard Edwards to talk He is one of the tens of thousands


of EU nationals living In Yorkshire, their numbers rose by


a quarter in the four years to 2015. But as Britain waits for the Brexit


talks to get into full swing, Victor and other EU migrants


are asking big questions When I go to work now, I know


I have a limited time for two years. If you look at the normal concerns,


food, job, friends, everything, you have a plan what to do and then


you get the news of Brexit. We are treated like


bargaining chips. Can I have a pack


of asparagus, please? Claire Thomas runs a farm


called Warfedale Grange Claire relies on Victor's labour


and says she wants answers I could not continue without someone


doing the sort of day-to-day Victor will get up at the crack


of dawn and say, you know, I have bunched 50 lots of 25 bunches


of marguerites for me I feel very sorry for Victor


because he does not know when he goes home next


time whether he will So he can't make any


permanent plans. And, you know, he is like a member


of the family, really. So what do the two possible


Prime Ministers say about this? Well, they have both been


in our region this week. Conservative party leader


Theresa May found herself put on the spot by a foreign-born worker


while on a factory visit. Are you going to preserve our right


to reside in this country or maybe in the future are you going to send


us back to our home country? What I want to do,


and what I expect to do and intend to guarantee EU citizens


who are living here their rights and status but, I am sure


you understand as the UK Prime Minister, I also want to think


about UK citizens who are living While Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn


popped into the Look North studios in between campaign visits


to Leeds and Garforth. We will also make sure


that we protect those achieved through Europe,


such as working time directive We will also guarantee the rights


of EU nationals to remain here. In the background to all of this


a counselling company in York says it is helping Eastern European


clients who are being bullied They are definitely related to


Brexit because the underlying issues are if I separate from my partner,


will I still have I have lived in this


country for a long time, will I have to go back


to my own country? So those are definitely


related to their future. So that evidence coming from a firm


in remain supporting York. Welcome to strongly


leave voting Wakefield. Let's see what people in this cafe


have to say about in it. Because they are foreigners


they come first every time. They get the best houses,


best jobs and it is all wrong. I do not think they


are being picked on. I think it is them


that are causing it. Put in for compensation


and causing trouble. I have worked in the industry


where are was a majority of Eastern Europeans


that were supervisors. I don't think English


people like that. The fact they are coming to our


country and telling us what to do. It's a bit of a smack


in the mouth, really. Does Victor have any message


for the the new Government once You are English, you have


to love your country, Try to look in your soul


and be a human being. I'm sure everything will come up


very good for England in the future. Richard Edwards reporting. We are


joined live by the candidates in the Halifax constituency. The


Conservative Party candidate declined our invitation to take part


Ukip message to the hard-working Ukip message to the hard-working


migrant workers across our part of the world who are worried they may


not have a future in this country after Brexit? I would like to see to


Victor directly that he should not be worried. Our policy is and has


always been that anyone who came to the UK legally to work will remain


after Brexit. It is concerning that there are so many scare stories out


there. Likewise, for expats abroad, they are also concerned. To reason


may yesterday saying that she intends to, or a wants to, she


should do something and deliver something and bring this to the


fronts of people stop worrying. -- Theresa May. If someone comes up to


you on the streets of Halifax and says to you, I going to be allowed


to stay in this country, what is your response? As far as Ukip are


concerned, yes, you are allowed to stay. Do the liberal Democrats


believe in any form of border control? Can I respond to what Mark


said. I think the we heard from Ukip around the referendum campaign was


appalling. Use these posters... It is fine saying we will protect them


but there were posters with queues of immigrants and rhetoric that


demonises people like Victor who have come here. We had been


increased racism under is all around this culture of fear and division


that we have seen in this country. I want to break away from that and


have a politics where we treat other people like human beings and we


value the contribution that value the contribution that


immigrants make in the UK. There might be a problem about immigration


and we need funding for local Government. You do not believe in


any form of immigration control? I believe you should have checks and


people come in here to make sure they are not criminals. I believe in


the freedom of movement between the European Union. I am a liberal and I


believe in freedom and the freedom of movement and freedom of capital


is better for our society. It enriches people's lives and help our


economy. Do you one to answer that point? Nigel Swaraj and that poster


of queues of people. -- NIgel Farage. People who are already here


should be able to stay. The difference is, looking at future


immigration, we need to put some control on that and the Liberal


Democrats are not going to control that and Ukip by the party to


control immigration in the future. Is Jeremy Corbyn right to refuse to


commit to reducing immigration if he becomes Prime Minister? One of the


things I have been doing, I was in the Parliamentary group on


immigration and that was going out and having conversations with people


to see what we have to do to make sure to amenities are comfortable


with immigration. We took evidence that was from Australia. What


industry needs and the use that information to feed into the


education policy and their immigration policy. Where we have


seen this Conservative Government just setting these targets, which by


their own measures keep failing to hit, would not be good if we were


working with communities to say what we want from immigration... The


answer to the questionnaires otherwise, no, you do not want to


see immigration reduced. That is not true. We have to start to work out


what we need and then use that a basis to work out figures. Could I


suggest an Australian points-based system would be a good place to


start? It has to be about education... Hollick, I hear you


speak in favour of immigration but you do not want to come out and say


you are in favour of immigration because you are aware that there are


people in Halifax who are concerned about it that. I think there are


people who are confused. Sometimes you say you are in favour of opening


up... I do not wear where labour stands on this. The 55% of people in


Calderdale who voted to leave the European Union, due not accept they


did so with the hope that net migration would be reduced? Yes, I


accept that. There was a lady there in that clip saying... She was


trying to suggest people who come to this country are making trouble. We


have to challenge that as well. We need to manage migration but it is


healthy 40 minute is as well. Thank you for your thoughts today.


emotive subject and we have run out of time.


On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary


seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's


We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out


what they might tell us about the make-up of the House


Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and


analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that


in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave


during last year's referendum campaign


and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public


In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs


were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour


Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats


17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn.


20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest


or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and


If they won those, the Labour benches would be


marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now.


What do the figures tell us about where the other


Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens


in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629


candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015.


The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically.


They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015,


throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories


in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North.


The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates


than at the last election, standing down to help


other progressive candidates in some places.


The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this


their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip


candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in


the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank


Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this


election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if


you take the things together that could explain why the polls are


where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start


of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we


started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the


size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip,


but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their


only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because


they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the


impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible


thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left,


consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt,


it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to


fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour


Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same


votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on


the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It


happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own


fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the


dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of


the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a


way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on


the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the


right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to


the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be


outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she


is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions.


What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes


ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not


declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have


thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim,


that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's


about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of


Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even


have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May.


I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put


it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because


of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is


coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet


sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it


will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you


will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never


have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one.


When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I


would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my


excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most


important day for the British government for the next five years.


That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even


being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and


it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it


safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might


be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to


do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a


year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out


what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next


parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next


important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate


for that if the polls are right but she


does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a


country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different


ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election.


You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on


implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly


pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it


will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the


line which interests me about its time to look at the good that


government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK


politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure


about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne


government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about


the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently


doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether


it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory


message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted


Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so


on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with


it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does


deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of


this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to


someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May


never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office


briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs.


So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick


Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be


interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be


talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the


suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much


Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington


Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class


voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government


out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help


their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of


what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it


suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the


boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing


happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015


manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably


had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference


speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If


she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will


have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will


be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming


issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant


development in terms of an argument around the role of government,


much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As


much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear


strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely,


and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are


all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks


to our panel. The Daily Politics will be


back on BBC Two at noon I'll be back here at the same time


on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday,


it's the Sunday Politics. When it came to my TV habits,


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Andrew Neil and Tim Iredale are joined by shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey and Home Office minister Brandon Lewis to discuss the party manifestos for the forthcoming general election. Plus American political pollster Frank Luntz, and a chat with undecided voters in Leeds. Journalists Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards review the papers.