14/05/2017 Sunday Politics Yorkshire and Lincolnshire


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14/05/2017

Andrew Neil and Tim Iredale are joined by shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey, housing minister Brandon Lewis and American political pollster Frank Luntz.


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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:37.:00:40.

Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes

:00:41.:00:43.

in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -

:00:44.:00:46.

Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax

:00:47.:00:53.

to fund public services, but will traders just

:00:54.:00:55.

Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,

:00:56.:00:59.

insists he can win this election - so which way will

:01:00.:01:01.

We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds.

:01:02.:01:06.

On the Sunday Politics in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire:

:01:07.:01:10.

The EU migrants watching our election campaign very closely.

:01:11.:01:12.

What do they think about the debate surrounding immigration?

:01:13.:01:16.

saying about tackling the air pollution problem in London.

:01:17.:01:25.

And with me, our own scientifically selected focus group

:01:26.:01:28.

of political pundits - they're not so much

:01:29.:01:30.

undecided as clueless - Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott

:01:31.:01:32.

They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.

:01:33.:01:40.

So, we've got two new policies this morning.

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Labour say they will introduce a financial transaction tax

:01:43.:01:44.

if they win the general election and what they're calling

:01:45.:01:46.

"the biggest crackdown on tax avoidance in the country's history".

:01:47.:01:49.

The Conservatives say they'll work with local authorities in England

:01:50.:01:51.

to build council houses with the right to buy.

:01:52.:01:53.

Theresa May says the policy "will help thousands of people

:01:54.:01:56.

get on the first rung of the housing ladder".

:01:57.:02:03.

Steve, what do you make of them? I have been conditioned after doing

:02:04.:02:11.

tax and spend debates in pre-election periods for many

:02:12.:02:15.

decades to treat policy is not as literal but as arguments. In other

:02:16.:02:20.

words if you look back to 2015 the Tory plan to wipe out the deficit

:02:21.:02:24.

was never going to happen and yet it framed and large event. In that

:02:25.:02:28.

sense the Robin Hood tax is a sensible move for Labour to make at

:02:29.:02:32.

this point because it is part of a narrative of reconfiguring taxation

:02:33.:02:37.

to be fair. Treating it as an argument rather than something that

:02:38.:02:43.

would happen in day one of Labour government is sensible. In terms of

:02:44.:02:46.

building houses Theresa May said right from the beginning when she

:02:47.:02:49.

was in Number Ten that there is a housing deficit in this country

:02:50.:02:53.

rather than the economic deficit George Osborne was focusing on, and

:02:54.:02:58.

this is an example of trying to get house-building going. It seems

:02:59.:03:01.

entirely sensible, not sure how it works with right to buy but again as

:03:02.:03:05.

framing of a 90 minute it makes sense. I disagree with Steve on one

:03:06.:03:14.

front which is how sensible Theresa May's policy is on the housing

:03:15.:03:19.

announcement. I think more broadly these two announcements have

:03:20.:03:22.

something in common which is that over the next 24 hours both will

:03:23.:03:28.

probably unravel in different ways. Ye of little faith! The Mayor of

:03:29.:03:32.

London has already said he doesn't agree with this, and when people see

:03:33.:03:37.

the actual impact of what looks like a populist tax will very potentially

:03:38.:03:43.

affect people's pensions, it might become a lot less popular. On the

:03:44.:03:48.

Tory housing plans, I think it is difficult to imagine how they are

:03:49.:03:53.

going to implement this huge, what looks like a huge land and property

:03:54.:03:58.

grab. Through compulsory purchase orders, which are not a simple

:03:59.:04:02.

instrument. They say they will change the law but really the idea

:04:03.:04:06.

of paying people below the market value for their assets is not

:04:07.:04:10.

something I can see sitting easily with Tory backbenchers or the Tories

:04:11.:04:17.

in the House of Lords. Tom. Both would appear superficially to be

:04:18.:04:21.

appealing to traditional left and traditional right bases. What is

:04:22.:04:28.

more Tory than right to buy, then councils sell on these houses, and

:04:29.:04:35.

Labour slapping a massive tax on the city. The Tories' plan, I would say

:04:36.:04:40.

look a bit deeper and all of the Tory narrative from the last six

:04:41.:04:44.

years which hasn't worked well is talking about the private sector

:04:45.:04:48.

increasing supply in the market. Now Mrs May is talking about the role

:04:49.:04:54.

for the state after all so this is the shift creeping in. On the Labour

:04:55.:04:59.

transaction tax, one of the most interesting things I heard in days

:05:00.:05:06.

was from Paul Mason, former BBC correspondent, now a cog in Easter

:05:07.:05:10.

extreme. On Newsnight he said don't worry about whether the Labour

:05:11.:05:15.

manifesto will add up, I'm promising it will, the bigger Tory attack line

:05:16.:05:19.

should be what on earth will be the macroeconomic effect of taking so

:05:20.:05:28.

much tax out of the system. Very well, we shall see. At least we have

:05:29.:05:29.

some policies to talk about. Now, on Tuesday Labour

:05:30.:05:31.

will launch its manifesto. But we've already got a pretty good

:05:32.:05:34.

idea of what's in it - that's because most of its contents

:05:35.:05:36.

were leaked to the media Labour has a variety of spending

:05:37.:05:39.

pledges including an extra ?6 billion a year for the NHS,

:05:40.:05:48.

an additional ?8 billion for social care over the lifetime

:05:49.:05:51.

of the next parliament, as well as a ?250 billion

:05:52.:05:53.

in infrastructure over The party will support the renewal

:05:54.:05:55.

of the Trident submarine system, although any Prime Minister should

:05:56.:06:02.

be extremely cautious about its use, and the party

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will hold a strategic defence and security review immediately

:06:05.:06:07.

after the election. In terms of immigration,

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Labour will seek "reasonable management of migration",

:06:10.:06:12.

but it will not make "false Elsewhere, university tuition

:06:13.:06:14.

fees will be abolished, and the public sector pay cap,

:06:15.:06:20.

which limits pay rises for public sector workers

:06:21.:06:23.

to 1%, will be scrapped. The party also aims to renationalise

:06:24.:06:27.

the railways, the Royal Mail and the National Grid,

:06:28.:06:29.

as well as creating at least one A senior Labour backbencher

:06:30.:06:36.

described it to the Sunday Politics as a manifesto for a leadership

:06:37.:06:42.

who don't "give a toss about the wider public",

:06:43.:06:44.

and several other Labour candidates told us they thought it

:06:45.:06:47.

had been deliberately leaked by the leadership,

:06:48.:06:48.

with one suggesting the leak was intended to "bounce

:06:49.:06:52.

the National Executive" And we're joined now from Salford

:06:53.:06:55.

by the Shadow Business Secretary, Welcome to the programme. The draft

:06:56.:07:04.

manifesto proposed to renationalise the number of industry. You will

:07:05.:07:10.

wait for the franchises to run out rather than buy them out at the

:07:11.:07:13.

moment so can you confirm the railways will not be wholly

:07:14.:07:19.

nationalised until 2030, after three Labour governments, and Jeremy

:07:20.:07:24.

Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to comment on leaks, you will just have

:07:25.:07:28.

to be patient and wait to see what is in our manifesto. But you have

:07:29.:07:35.

already announced you will nationalise the railways, so tell me

:07:36.:07:39.

about it. We have discussed taking the franchises into public ownership

:07:40.:07:43.

as they expire, however the detail will be set out in the manifesto so

:07:44.:07:48.

I'm not prepared to go into detail until that policy is formally laid

:07:49.:07:53.

out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound very hopeful but let's carry on. You

:07:54.:07:59.

will also nationalise the National Grid, it has a market capitalisation

:08:00.:08:04.

of ?40 billion, why do you want to nationalise that? Again, I'm not

:08:05.:08:08.

going to speculate on leaks, you will just have to be patient. But

:08:09.:08:13.

you said you will nationalise the National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks

:08:14.:08:19.

have suggested but you will just have to wait and see what the final

:08:20.:08:24.

manifesto states on that one. So is it a waste of time me asking you how

:08:25.:08:29.

you will pay for something that costs 40 billion? Be patient, just

:08:30.:08:34.

couple of days to go, but what I would say is there is growing

:08:35.:08:39.

pressure from the public to reform the utilities sector. The

:08:40.:08:43.

Competition and Markets Authority stated in 2015 that bill payers were

:08:44.:08:48.

paying over till debt -- ?2 billion in excess of what they should be

:08:49.:08:51.

paying so there is a clear need for reform. The bills we get are from

:08:52.:08:58.

the energy companies, you are not going to nationalise them, you are

:08:59.:09:00.

going to nationalise the distribution company and I wondered

:09:01.:09:06.

what is the case for nationalising the distribution company? As I said,

:09:07.:09:10.

our full plans will be set out on Tuesday. In relation to the big six

:09:11.:09:15.

energy companies, we know in recent years they have been overcharging

:09:16.:09:22.

customers... There's no point in answering questions I am not asking.

:09:23.:09:26.

I am asking what is the case for nationalising the National Grid?

:09:27.:09:31.

There is a case for reforming the energy sector as a whole and that

:09:32.:09:35.

looks at the activities of the big six companies and it will look at

:09:36.:09:39.

other aspects too. You will have to be patient and wait until Tuesday.

:09:40.:09:45.

What about the Royal Mail? Again, you will have to wait until Tuesday.

:09:46.:09:52.

Why can't you just be honest with the British voter? We know you are

:09:53.:09:56.

going to do this and you have a duty to explain. I'm not even arguing

:09:57.:10:04.

whether it is right or wrong. The Royal Mail was sold off and we know

:10:05.:10:09.

it was sold under value and British taxpayers have a reason to feel

:10:10.:10:13.

aggrieved about that. There is a long-term strategy that would ensure

:10:14.:10:16.

the Royal Mail was classified as a key piece of infrastructure but the

:10:17.:10:20.

details of that will be set out in our manifesto because we want to

:10:21.:10:25.

ensure businesses and households ensure the best quality of service

:10:26.:10:28.

when it comes to their postal providers. You plan to borrow an

:10:29.:10:35.

extra 25 billion per year, John McDonnell has already announced

:10:36.:10:39.

this, on public investment, on top of the around 50 billion already

:10:40.:10:43.

being planned for investment. You will borrow it all so that means, if

:10:44.:10:48.

you can confirm, that many years after the crash by 2021, Labour

:10:49.:10:57.

government would still be borrowing 75 billion a year. Is that correct?

:10:58.:11:04.

We have set out ?250 billion of capital investment, and ?250 billion

:11:05.:11:09.

for a national investment bank. Our financial and fiscal rules dictate

:11:10.:11:13.

we will leave the Government in a state of less debt than we found it

:11:14.:11:16.

at the start of the parliament so we won't increase the national debt at

:11:17.:11:23.

the end of our Parliamentary term. How can you do that if by 2021 you

:11:24.:11:27.

will still be borrowing around 75 billion a year, which is more than

:11:28.:11:33.

we borrow at the moment? The 500 billion figure is set out over a

:11:34.:11:37.

period of ten years, it's a figure that has been suggested by Peter

:11:38.:11:41.

Helm from Oxford University as a figure that is necessary to bring us

:11:42.:11:46.

in line with other industrial competitors. Similar figures have

:11:47.:11:51.

been suggested by groups such as the CBI. By the way I have not included

:11:52.:11:58.

all 500 billion, just the 250 billion on public spending, not the

:11:59.:12:02.

extra money. You talk about the fiscal rules. The draft manifesto

:12:03.:12:06.

said you will leave debt as a proportion of trend GDP law at the

:12:07.:12:10.

end of each parliament, you have just said a version of that. What is

:12:11.:12:17.

trend GDP? In clear terms we will ensure the debt we acquire will be

:12:18.:12:21.

reduced by the end of the parliament. We won't leave the

:12:22.:12:25.

Government finances in a worse state than we found them. OK, but what is

:12:26.:12:34.

trend GDP? Our rule is we will ensure public sector net debt is

:12:35.:12:38.

less than we found it when we came to power in Government on June the

:12:39.:12:43.

8th. But that is not what your draft manifesto says. I'm not going to

:12:44.:12:49.

comment on leaks, you are just going to have to wait until Tuesday to

:12:50.:12:53.

look at the fine detail and perhaps we will have another chat then. You

:12:54.:12:59.

have published your plans for corporation tax and you will

:13:00.:13:02.

increase it by a third and your predictions assumed that will get an

:13:03.:13:06.

extra 20 billion a year by the end of the parliament. But that assumes

:13:07.:13:12.

the companies don't change their behaviour, that they move money

:13:13.:13:16.

around, they leave the country or they generate smaller profits. Is

:13:17.:13:22.

that realistic? You are right to make that point and you will see

:13:23.:13:25.

when we set out our policies and costings in the manifesto that we

:13:26.:13:29.

haven't spent all of the tax take. We have allowed for different

:13:30.:13:34.

differentials and potential changes in market activity because that

:13:35.:13:38.

would be approved and direction to take. But corporation tax is allowed

:13:39.:13:45.

to be cut in France and the United States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin.

:13:46.:13:50.

Many companies based in Britain are already wondering whether they

:13:51.:13:53.

should relocate because of Brexit, if you increase this tax by a third

:13:54.:13:58.

couldn't that clinch it for a number of them? No, we will still be one of

:13:59.:14:03.

the lowest corporation tax rate in the G7. Let's look at what's

:14:04.:14:08.

important for business. Cutting corporation tax in itself doesn't

:14:09.:14:12.

improve productivity, or business investment and there's no suggestion

:14:13.:14:17.

cutting corporation tax in recent years has achieved that. Businesses

:14:18.:14:22.

need an investment in tools in things they need to thrive and

:14:23.:14:26.

prosper, they also need to reduce the burden at the lower end of the

:14:27.:14:31.

tax scale, before we get to the Prophet stage. One key example is

:14:32.:14:35.

business rates. We have made the proposal to government to in --

:14:36.:14:43.

exclude machinery so businesses can invest and grow operations in the

:14:44.:14:44.

future but the Government refused. Corporation tax has been cut since

:14:45.:14:58.

2010. When it was 28% it brought in ?43 billion a year. Now it is down

:14:59.:15:05.

to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a year. By cutting it in the last

:15:06.:15:11.

year, it brought in 21% more, so what is the problem? It might have

:15:12.:15:17.

brought in more money, but has it increased business investment in the

:15:18.:15:21.

long term. It is not just about cutting corporation tax, but it is

:15:22.:15:27.

on the ability of businesses to thrive and prosper. Business

:15:28.:15:32.

investment in the UK is below are industrial competitors. Wages are

:15:33.:15:37.

stagnating which doesn't indicate businesses are not doing well. Let

:15:38.:15:43.

me get it right, you are arguing if we increase business tax by a third,

:15:44.:15:49.

that will increase investment? I am not saying that. You just did. Know

:15:50.:15:57.

I didn't, I said reducing business tax isn't enough, you have to invest

:15:58.:16:02.

in the things businesses need to thrive and prosper. You have also

:16:03.:16:06.

got to lessen the burden on business. You have announced a

:16:07.:16:16.

financial transaction tax. Your own labour Mayor of London said he has

:16:17.:16:22.

vowed to fight it. He said I do not want a unilateral tax on business in

:16:23.:16:26.

our city, so why are you proceeding with it? This isn't a new

:16:27.:16:31.

initiative, there is a growing global pressure to make sure we have

:16:32.:16:36.

fairness in the financial sector. Ordinary British people are paying

:16:37.:16:39.

for our banking crisis they didn't cause. Another important point,

:16:40.:16:46.

stamp duty reserve tax was brought in in the 1600 and there have been

:16:47.:16:51.

little reforms. The sector has changed and we have do provide

:16:52.:16:54.

changes to the system for that change. High-frequency trading where

:16:55.:17:00.

we have a state of affairs where a lot of shares are traded on

:17:01.:17:04.

computers within milliseconds. We need a tax system that keeps up with

:17:05.:17:10.

that. What happens if they move the computers to another country? Emily

:17:11.:17:16.

Thornaby said this morning, other countries had already introduced a

:17:17.:17:20.

financial transaction tax, what other countries have done that?

:17:21.:17:27.

There are ten countries looking at introducing a transaction tax. Which

:17:28.:17:35.

ones have done it so far? They will be later announcing a final package,

:17:36.:17:40.

going through the finer detail at the moment. But the European

:17:41.:17:43.

Commission tried to get this done in 2011 and it still hasn't happened in

:17:44.:17:48.

any of these countries. But you are going to go ahead unilaterally and

:17:49.:17:52.

risk these businesses, which generate a lot of money, moving to

:17:53.:17:58.

other jurisdictions. There is not a significant risk of that happening.

:17:59.:18:04.

The stamp duty reserve tax is levied at either where the person or

:18:05.:18:13.

company is domiciled or where the instrument is issued rather than

:18:14.:18:18.

worth the transaction takes place. This tax in itself is not enough to

:18:19.:18:22.

make people leave this country in terms of financial services because

:18:23.:18:26.

there is more to keep these businesses here in terms of the

:18:27.:18:30.

investment we are making, the economy that Labour will build, in

:18:31.:18:34.

terms of productivity improvement we will see. Thank you very much,

:18:35.:18:37.

Rebecca Long-Bailey. And listening to that was the Home

:18:38.:18:41.

Office Minister, Brandon Lewis. Over the years, you have got

:18:42.:18:52.

corporation tax by 20%, it is lower than international standards, so why

:18:53.:18:56.

are so many global companies who make money out of Great Britain,

:18:57.:19:02.

still not paying 20%? It is one of the problems with the point Labour

:19:03.:19:07.

were making and Rebecca could not answer, these companies can move

:19:08.:19:11.

around the world. One of the important things is having a low tax

:19:12.:19:15.

economy but these businesses, it encourages them to come at a rate

:19:16.:19:20.

they are prepared to pay. People may say they are right, if they were

:19:21.:19:27.

paying 19, 20% incorporation tax. But they are not. Google runs a

:19:28.:19:33.

multi-million pound corporation and did not pay anywhere near 20%. There

:19:34.:19:39.

are companies that are trading internationally and that is why we

:19:40.:19:43.

have to get this work done with our partners around the world. Has there

:19:44.:19:52.

been an improvement? It is more than they were paying before. Whether it

:19:53.:19:56.

is Google or any other company, alongside them being here, apart

:19:57.:20:01.

from the tax they pay, it is the people they employ. The deal was, if

:20:02.:20:06.

you cut the business tax, the corporation tax on profits, we would

:20:07.:20:09.

get more companies coming here and more companies paying their tax. It

:20:10.:20:15.

seems it doesn't matter how low, a number of companies just pay a

:20:16.:20:18.

derisory amount and you haven't been able to change that. As you

:20:19.:20:25.

outlined, the income taken from the changing corporation tax has gone

:20:26.:20:32.

up. That is from established British companies, not from these

:20:33.:20:35.

international companies. It is because more companies are coming

:20:36.:20:39.

here and paying tax. That is a good thing. There is always more to do

:20:40.:20:43.

and that is why we want to crack down. In the last few weeks in the

:20:44.:20:48.

Finnish Parliament, Labour refused to put to another ?8.7 billion of

:20:49.:20:53.

tax take we could have got by cracking down further. You claim to

:20:54.:20:59.

have made great progress on cracking down on people and companies to pay

:21:00.:21:05.

the tax they should. But the tax gap is the difference between what HMRC

:21:06.:21:10.

takes in and what it should take in. It has barely moved in five years,

:21:11.:21:17.

so where is the progress? He have brought in 150 billion more where we

:21:18.:21:21.

have cracked down on those tax schemes. The gap is still the same

:21:22.:21:29.

as it was five years ago. It's gone from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down.

:21:30.:21:34.

The Prime Minister and the Chancellor said they want to

:21:35.:21:37.

continue work on to get more money on these companies while still

:21:38.:21:40.

having a competitive rate to encourage these companies. While big

:21:41.:21:50.

business and the wealthy continue to prosper, the Office for Budget

:21:51.:21:52.

Responsibility tell us those on average earnings in this country

:21:53.:21:57.

will be earning less in real terms by 2021 than they did in 2008. How

:21:58.:22:03.

can that be fair? I don't see it that way. I haven't seen the figures

:22:04.:22:09.

you have got. What I can say to you, Andrew, we have made sure the

:22:10.:22:12.

minimum wage has gone up, the actual income tax people pay has gone down.

:22:13.:22:17.

So in their pocket, real terms, people have more money. You are the

:22:18.:22:26.

self-styled party of work. We keep emphasising work. Under your

:22:27.:22:29.

government you can work for 13 years and still not earn any more at the

:22:30.:22:34.

end of it, and you did at the start. Where is the reward for effort in

:22:35.:22:41.

that? I have not seen those figures. There are 2.8 million more people,

:22:42.:22:46.

more jobs in economy than there was. 1000 jobs every day and people are

:22:47.:22:51.

working and developing through their careers. This is what I thought was

:22:52.:22:55.

odd in what Rebecca was saying, investing in people is what the

:22:56.:22:58.

apprenticeship levy is about, companies are investing their works

:22:59.:23:03.

force to take more opportunities that there. We are talking about

:23:04.:23:08.

fairness, politicians talk about hard-working people and we know the

:23:09.:23:11.

average earnings are no higher than they were in 2008. We know the pay

:23:12.:23:17.

and bonuses of senior executives have continued to grow and the

:23:18.:23:21.

Institute for Fiscal Studies has shown 3 million of the poorest

:23:22.:23:25.

households will lose an average of ?2500 a year in the next Parliament,

:23:26.:23:29.

benefits frozen, further sanctions kick in. 3 million of the poorest

:23:30.:23:37.

losing 2500. Under the Tories, one law for the rich and another for the

:23:38.:23:42.

poor. It is quite wrong. First of all, we have got to be fair to the

:23:43.:23:47.

taxpayer who is funding the welfare and benefit system. Which is why the

:23:48.:23:51.

welfare was right. Get more people in work and then it is important to

:23:52.:24:01.

get more people upscaling. As that allowance rises, people have more of

:24:02.:24:04.

the money they earn in their pocket to be able to use in the economy.

:24:05.:24:11.

People will be worse off. 2500, among the poorest already. They will

:24:12.:24:16.

have more money in their pocket as we increase the allowance before

:24:17.:24:23.

people pay tax. We have seen millions of people coming out of tax

:24:24.:24:28.

altogether. The reason I ask these questions, you and the Prime

:24:29.:24:32.

Minister go on and on about the just about managing classes. I am talking

:24:33.:24:36.

about the just about managing and below that. It is all talk, you

:24:37.:24:41.

haven't done anything for them. We have made sure they have an

:24:42.:24:44.

increasing minimum wage, it has gone up more under us than any other

:24:45.:24:51.

previous government. Their wages will be still lower in real terms.

:24:52.:24:57.

Let me come on to this plan for housing. We have announced a new

:24:58.:25:01.

plan to increase affordable housing, social housing, some council housing

:25:02.:25:06.

and social housing built by the associations. How much money is

:25:07.:25:11.

behind this? It is part of the 1.4 billion announced in the Autumn

:25:12.:25:16.

Statement. How many homes will you get for 1.4 billion? That depends on

:25:17.:25:21.

the negotiations with local authorities. It is local

:25:22.:25:25.

authorities, who know the area best. I will not put a number on that. 1.4

:25:26.:25:32.

billion, if you price the house at 100,000, which is very low,

:25:33.:25:37.

particularly for the South, back at you 14,000 new homes. That is it.

:25:38.:25:43.

What we have seen before, how the local government can leveraged to

:25:44.:25:47.

build thousands more homes. That is what we want to see across the

:25:48.:25:51.

country. It is not just about the money, for a lot of local

:25:52.:25:54.

authorities it is about the expertise and knowledge on how to do

:25:55.:26:00.

this. That is why support from the housing communities minister will

:26:01.:26:03.

help. What is the timescale, how many more affordable homes will be

:26:04.:26:10.

built? I will not put a number on it. You announced it today, so you

:26:11.:26:15.

cannot tell me how many more or what the target is? It is a matter of

:26:16.:26:19.

working with the local authorities who know what their local needs are,

:26:20.:26:23.

what land they have got available. What we saw through the local

:26:24.:26:27.

elections with the Metro mayors, they want to deliver in their areas,

:26:28.:26:32.

whether it is the West of England, the north-east, Liverpool,

:26:33.:26:35.

Manchester and we want to work with them. You have said variations of

:26:36.:26:41.

this for the past seven years and I want some credibility. When you

:26:42.:26:44.

cannot tell us how much money, what the target and timescale is, and

:26:45.:26:50.

this government, under which affordable house building has fallen

:26:51.:26:55.

to a 24 year low. 1.2 million families are on waiting lists for

:26:56.:26:59.

social housing to rent. That is your record. Why should we believe a word

:27:00.:27:04.

you say? This is different to what we have been doing over the last two

:27:05.:27:09.

years. We want to develop and have a strong and stable economy that can

:27:10.:27:14.

sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This is important. In 2010, we inherited

:27:15.:27:23.

the lowest level of house building, 75,000 new homes. That is about

:27:24.:27:27.

189,000 over the last four years. That is a big step forward after the

:27:28.:27:32.

crash, getting people back into the industry. More first-time buyers

:27:33.:27:42.

onto the market. Final question, in 2010, 2011, your first year in

:27:43.:27:47.

government, there were 60,000 affordable homes built. May not be

:27:48.:27:54.

enough, but last day it was 30 2000. So why should we trust anything you

:27:55.:27:59.

say about this? On housing, we have delivered. We have delivered more

:28:00.:28:07.

social housing. Double what Labour did in 13 years, in just five years.

:28:08.:28:13.

This is what this policy is about, working with local authorities to

:28:14.:28:16.

deliver more homes to people in their local areas. Thank you.

:28:17.:28:20.

Now, they have a deficit of between 15 and 20% in the polls,

:28:21.:28:23.

but Jeremy Corbyn and those around him insist Labour can win.

:28:24.:28:26.

If the polls are right they've got three and half weeks to change

:28:27.:28:29.

voters' minds and persuade those fabled undecided voters

:28:30.:28:31.

We enlisted the polling organisation YouGov to help us find out how

:28:32.:28:36.

the performance of party leaders will affect behaviour

:28:37.:28:38.

Leeds, a city of three quarters of a million people,

:28:39.:28:47.

eight Parliamentary seats and home to our very own focus group.

:28:48.:28:52.

Our panel was recruited from a variety of backgrounds

:28:53.:28:55.

and the majority say they haven't decided who to vote for yet.

:28:56.:28:59.

Watching behind the glass, two experts on different sides

:29:00.:29:01.

Giles Cunningham, who headed up political press at Downing Street

:29:02.:29:08.

under David Cameron and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter,

:29:09.:29:14.

under David Cameron and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter,

:29:15.:29:16.

I think Theresa May sees herself as a pound shop Thatcher.

:29:17.:29:21.

Milliband's policies but when it came

:29:22.:29:41.

about who you want, if you wake up on maybe a 2015,

:29:42.:29:44.

We found in a couple of focus groups, people saying

:29:45.:29:48.

we'd be quite relieved, even though some of those same

:29:49.:29:51.

people have been saying we quite like the Labour policies.

:29:52.:29:53.

I think the fact that Corbyn's going so hard on his values,

:29:54.:29:57.

this is a really progressive manifesto, they live

:29:58.:29:59.

But I think that's a new challenge, that wasn't there in 2015.

:30:00.:30:04.

Is there anyone here that you don't recognise?

:30:05.:30:06.

After a little warm up, the first exercise, recognising

:30:07.:30:08.

I think it's nice to have a strong woman in politics, I do.

:30:09.:30:14.

But I've got to say, when she comes on the news,

:30:15.:30:17.

I kind of do think, here we go again.

:30:18.:30:19.

Tell me about Tim Farron, what are your impressions of Tim Farron?

:30:20.:30:22.

It isn't going to do anything, it isn't going to change anything.

:30:23.:30:27.

You'll be surprised to hear it's actually the Greens.

:30:28.:30:35.

Strong and stable leadership in the national interest.

:30:36.:30:48.

Yes, Team May, it's the British equivalent of make

:30:49.:30:52.

What do we think about this one for the many and not the few?

:30:53.:31:02.

It's not quite as bad as strong and stable,

:31:03.:31:05.

but it will probably get on our nerves after a while.

:31:06.:31:07.

We must seize that chance today and every day until June the 8th.

:31:08.:31:18.

But that's not quite my question, my question is,

:31:19.:31:25.

if you are Prime Minister, we will leave, come hell or high

:31:26.:31:28.

water, whatever is on the table at the end of the negotiations?

:31:29.:31:31.

If we win the election, we'll get a good deal with Europe.

:31:32.:31:34.

Assertive and in control and he felt comfortable

:31:35.:31:36.

But the second one, I thought he was very hesitant.

:31:37.:31:41.

I thought he was kind of, hovering around, skirting around

:31:42.:31:50.

and that's the second time I've seen a similar

:31:51.:31:52.

interview with the question being asked regarding Brexit.

:31:53.:31:54.

I don't think I'd have any confidence with him

:31:55.:31:56.

You think you are going up against some quite strong people,

:31:57.:32:00.

how are you going to stand up for us?

:32:01.:32:02.

When you are in negotiations, you need to be tough.

:32:03.:32:07.

And actually is right to be tough sometimes,

:32:08.:32:09.

particularly when you are doing something for the country.

:32:10.:32:11.

There's a reason for talking about strong and stable leadership.

:32:12.:32:14.

It's about the future of the country, it's

:32:15.:32:16.

It's just that people kind of listen to that kind of thing and think

:32:17.:32:20.

Both on The One Show and in the news.

:32:21.:32:26.

She attracts the public better than what Corbyn does.

:32:27.:32:32.

She didn't answer the question in a more articular way than Corbyn

:32:33.:32:35.

Imagine that Theresa May is an animal.

:32:36.:32:41.

So, in your minds, what animal is coming to mind

:32:42.:32:44.

I've done a Pekinese because I think she's all bark and no bite.

:32:45.:32:58.

Alpaca because she's superior looking and woolly

:32:59.:33:04.

I don't think his policies are for the modern, real world.

:33:05.:33:20.

A mouse because they are weak and they can be easily bullied,

:33:21.:33:23.

but also they can catch you by surprise if you're

:33:24.:33:26.

What do you take away from what you saw then,

:33:27.:33:34.

and what message would you send back to the Tories now?

:33:35.:33:36.

I think what came over is people see Theresa May as a strong politician,

:33:37.:33:40.

not everyone likes her, but you don't need to be

:33:41.:33:42.

liked to be elected, because ultimately it's about who do

:33:43.:33:45.

you trust with your future and your security.

:33:46.:33:47.

I think what I also take out of that focus group,

:33:48.:33:49.

was it was a group of floating voters, there was no huge appetite

:33:50.:33:52.

for the Lib Dems and there was no huge appetite for Ukip.

:33:53.:33:55.

So my messaged back to CCHQ would be stick to the plan.

:33:56.:33:58.

I thought the response to the manifesto was excellent.

:33:59.:34:01.

It's clear that people aren't particularly keen on Theresa May,

:34:02.:34:04.

There are some associations with her about strength and stability,

:34:05.:34:09.

which is exactly what the Tory party want of course, but they are not

:34:10.:34:12.

positive and nobody thinks that she has a vision

:34:13.:34:14.

So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn, what I'd say to the Labour Party is,

:34:15.:34:20.

they need to really emphasise the manifesto in

:34:21.:34:23.

Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform out of his skin and I think

:34:24.:34:29.

he has to reemphasise those characteristics which may be have

:34:30.:34:31.

come to the fore may be over the last 12 months,

:34:32.:34:34.

resilience, strength and the fact that he's come this far,

:34:35.:34:36.

why not take that final step and go into ten Downing Street?

:34:37.:34:39.

We're joined now by the American political consultant

:34:40.:34:41.

For the sake of this discussion, assume the polls at the moment are

:34:42.:34:51.

broadly right, is there any hope for Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters?

:34:52.:34:57.

Know, and this is a very serious collection with serious consequences

:34:58.:35:01.

to who wins. Nobody cares whether you can draw and what animal they

:35:02.:35:05.

represent, they want to know where they stand, and I felt that was

:35:06.:35:09.

frivolous. I come to Britain to watch elections because I learned

:35:10.:35:15.

from here. Your elections are more substantial, more serious, more

:35:16.:35:18.

policy and less about personality and that peace was only about

:35:19.:35:22.

personality. That's partly because Mrs May has decided to make this a

:35:23.:35:27.

presidential election. You can see on the posters it is all Team May. I

:35:28.:35:42.

agree with that, and in her language she says not everyone benefits from

:35:43.:35:46.

a Conservative government, I don't see how using anything Republicans

:35:47.:35:50.

have used in the past. In fact her campaign is more of a centrist

:35:51.:35:54.

Democrats but it is a smart strategy because it pushes Corbyn further to

:35:55.:35:59.

the left. Of course you said Hillary Clinton have won. On election night

:36:00.:36:04.

the polling was so bad in America, the exit polls that were done, the

:36:05.:36:10.

BBC told America she had won. No, I was anchoring the programme that

:36:11.:36:16.

night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC had the same numbers. Yes, but we

:36:17.:36:24.

did not say she had won, I can assure you of that. Because of

:36:25.:36:28.

people like you we thought she had but we didn't broadcast it. That was

:36:29.:36:35.

a smart approach. My point is other than teasing you, maybe there is

:36:36.:36:40.

hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you will have one of the lowest turnout

:36:41.:36:45.

in modern history and I think Labour will fall to one of the lowest

:36:46.:36:49.

percentages, not percentage of number of seats they have had, and

:36:50.:36:55.

this will be a matter of soul-searching for both political

:36:56.:36:59.

parties. What you do with a sizeable majority, and she has a

:37:00.:37:02.

responsibility to tell the British people exactly what happens as she

:37:03.:37:08.

moves forward. He and Labour will have to take a look at whether they

:37:09.:37:13.

still represent a significant slice of the British population. Do you

:37:14.:37:18.

see a realignment in British politics taking place? I see a

:37:19.:37:22.

crumbling of the left and yet there is still a significant percentage of

:37:23.:37:25.

the British population that once someone who is centre-left. And they

:37:26.:37:35.

like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies. I'm listening to Michael foot. I

:37:36.:37:38.

went to school here in the 1980s and I feel like I'm watching the Labour

:37:39.:37:41.

Party of 35 years ago, in a population that wants to focus on

:37:42.:37:42.

the future, not the past. Thank you. It's just gone 11.35,

:37:43.:37:49.

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:37:50.:37:51.

in Scotland, who leave us now Hello you're watching

:37:52.:37:54.

the Sunday Politics Is Labour facing its Last Tango

:37:55.:38:03.

in Halifax or could voters end up dancing to a different tune

:38:04.:38:12.

to the one many predict? What can Halifax tell us

:38:13.:38:14.

about the mood of the nation? I think the NHS, ambulance

:38:15.:38:17.

and police service. And the EU migrants watching our

:38:18.:38:25.

election campaign very closely. What do they think about the debate

:38:26.:38:28.

surrounding immigration? You have the normal concerns, food,

:38:29.:38:41.

job, friends, you have a plan what to do and then you have the news of

:38:42.:38:46.

Brexit. We are treated like bargaining chips.

:38:47.:38:50.

If Theresa May is to achieve her aim of increasing her majority

:38:51.:38:53.

in parliament, then Halifax is a must-win seat for the Tories.

:38:54.:38:55.

In 2015, Labour won Halifax with a majority of just 428 votes.

:38:56.:38:58.

Labour say they'll fight hard to retain all the seats they're

:38:59.:39:02.

defending across Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire.

:39:03.:39:06.

But of course, the voters will have the final verdict

:39:07.:39:08.

and here's what some voters in Halifax are saying about

:39:09.:39:10.

The biggest issue is the Tories taking over

:39:11.:39:19.

Personally, I voted to leave the EU because I think it will be better

:39:20.:39:24.

for England and Britain to be able to trade freely with America

:39:25.:39:27.

and China and all the big trading blocks and for us to have free

:39:28.:39:30.

Theresa May is picking over the corpse of England.

:39:31.:39:33.

The NHS is going to go and everything else will follow it.

:39:34.:39:39.

I think tax and the financial system, because when I'm older

:39:40.:39:42.

What is the biggest issue in the election?

:39:43.:39:46.

I think NHS, ambulance and the police service.

:39:47.:39:51.

People are wondering whether to remain or not

:39:52.:39:53.

It is confusing a lot of people and it is dividing a lot

:39:54.:39:59.

We are joined today by three of the candidates in the Halifax

:40:00.:40:12.

constituency. Labour's Holly Lynch, Liberal Democrat and Ukip candidate.

:40:13.:40:20.

The Conservative candidate has declined our invitation to take part

:40:21.:40:24.

in this programme. Every political number cruncher you speak to has

:40:25.:40:29.

Halifax town as a Conservative game based on the size of the Tory

:40:30.:40:34.

leader. You must be gloomy about your prospects? We have always known

:40:35.:40:39.

it has been a key marginal. It is a battle ground people look at going

:40:40.:40:43.

into a general election. We knew that when I became the MP to years

:40:44.:40:49.

ago. I have not been complacent in that time. We have hit the ground

:40:50.:40:53.

running as a local party. The things we have been keen to work on. We had

:40:54.:41:00.

the last Tango in Halifax and allergy but it has not been happy

:41:01.:41:05.

Valley under this Conservative Government either. Cuts to policing,

:41:06.:41:10.

education and squeeze is on the NHS. People are not happy about and it

:41:11.:41:17.

has come up on the doorsteps. You were campaigning to remain within

:41:18.:41:21.

the European union. Your constituency is in favour of leaving

:41:22.:41:24.

the European Union, does that make you vulnerable? I did go into the

:41:25.:41:30.

referendum as a remain porter but I am a Democrat and I recognise the

:41:31.:41:35.

referendum. We are keen to get on with this process of Brexit and it

:41:36.:41:40.

is coming up on the doorsteps. We have had conversations with 7000

:41:41.:41:42.

people going into this general election. It is interesting that

:41:43.:41:48.

Theresa May triggered Article 50 and the first thing she did was postpone

:41:49.:41:51.

the negotiations to have a general election. We want get on with that

:41:52.:41:55.

process but we have seen these issues coming up on the doorstep.

:41:56.:42:00.

James Baker, the last general election, the Liberal Democrat

:42:01.:42:05.

candidate came a distant fourth lost his deposit. Halifax is a battle

:42:06.:42:08.

between Labour and the Tories. You do not stand a chance, do you?

:42:09.:42:14.

Things can only improve. I have a great track record as a local

:42:15.:42:18.

councillor representing people in Halifax. I am someone who delivers

:42:19.:42:22.

and offering people something unique in this election. You have other

:42:23.:42:25.

candidates who are going to be supporting a hard Brexit, which will

:42:26.:42:29.

be damaging to jobs and the economy in Halifax. We rely on Lloyds and

:42:30.:42:35.

large companies like Nestle, if you lose those then people are going to

:42:36.:42:39.

suffer. I am the only candidate that is offering people a final say on

:42:40.:42:43.

the Brexit deal so they can have a choice whether they want to accept

:42:44.:42:46.

the deal that politicians negotiate whether they want to reject it and a

:42:47.:42:52.

chance to stay in the EU. URL Ukip candidate. It is surprising that

:42:53.:43:00.

Ukip are not standing in many constituencies in Yorkshire and

:43:01.:43:03.

Lincolnshire riveted stand and the last election. Why have you chosen

:43:04.:43:08.

to stand in Halifax? Ukip as a guard dogs of Brexit. People in Halifax

:43:09.:43:14.

voted overwhelmingly during the referendum to leave the European

:43:15.:43:17.

union. We want to put a strong voice on that's not forget that Brexit has

:43:18.:43:21.

not happened yet. Nothing has been delivered. There were delays in

:43:22.:43:26.

writing a letter to say we were leaving. The people of Halifax need

:43:27.:43:31.

a strong voice to go to Westminster and say we demanded to leave and

:43:32.:43:34.

that is what is going to happen. The question we are asking is will

:43:35.:43:39.

Brexit trump traditional loyalties on major issues?

:43:40.:43:41.

This morning we're looking at immigration - and education.

:43:42.:43:44.

In recent months teachers' unions have been speaking out

:43:45.:43:46.

The government says it is looking to correct historical imbalances

:43:47.:43:52.

But we've spoken to one parent in Calderdale,

:43:53.:43:55.

a mother of five children, who has begun campaigning

:43:56.:43:57.

against what she claims are gravely damaging cuts in her part

:43:58.:44:00.

What we are seeing in Calderdale is schools which have already had

:44:01.:44:18.

to meet a number of redundancies, which are already losing staff,

:44:19.:44:20.

class sizes are increasing and problems are occurring.

:44:21.:44:22.

Children are being asked to pay for exercise books.

:44:23.:44:24.

In some schools the head teachers are actively asking parents

:44:25.:44:28.

to contribute to school funding and in some cases actually asking

:44:29.:44:31.

if they can set up a direct debit so they are getting a regular source

:44:32.:44:34.

of funding to the school on a regular basis.

:44:35.:44:40.

One school, for example, here in Calderdale just a couple

:44:41.:44:43.

of miles away from where we are, is subject to cuts of over half

:44:44.:44:46.

And have already had to make several redundancies,

:44:47.:44:52.

resulting in the loss of number of teachers, support staff

:44:53.:44:55.

It means they can offer a lot less subjects as a school.

:44:56.:45:02.

Not so far away from here, one school who only 12 subjects

:45:03.:45:05.

There has been a significant reduction in language.

:45:06.:45:08.

Design and technology subjects have been scrapped.

:45:09.:45:15.

And music and art have also been very hardly hit.

:45:16.:45:18.

Teachers are becoming increasingly stressed

:45:19.:45:21.

50% of more experienced teachers are wanting to quit over the next

:45:22.:45:25.

two years and headteachers in particular are finding it really

:45:26.:45:27.

difficult to recruit teachers, especially in the areas

:45:28.:45:29.

My fears going into the election is that this subject has

:45:30.:45:36.

How much longer can it go on before schools are literally

:45:37.:45:46.

brought to their knees and many of them start fail?

:45:47.:45:48.

Well, in the absence of the Conservative candidate,

:45:49.:45:57.

we asked for a Conservative Party statement on education funding -

:45:58.:45:59.

and they told us that the government has been putting record investment

:46:00.:46:02.

into schools, protecting core schools budgets,

:46:03.:46:05.

and consulting on a fairer funding formula which it will further

:46:06.:46:07.

Holly Lynch, nobody wants to see bigger class sizes and fewer

:46:08.:46:21.

teachers. Where are Labour going to find the money to plug the black

:46:22.:46:26.

hole in the education budget? Some of the details for this will be in

:46:27.:46:30.

our manifesto which is out next week. We are looking at corporation

:46:31.:46:35.

tax any way of launching an education service, doing things

:46:36.:46:36.

differently. We all want to see a differently. We all want to see a

:46:37.:46:41.

good, well funded quality education that is available to everybody. That

:46:42.:46:46.

is not what is happening at the moment. Headteachers across Halifax

:46:47.:46:50.

are really desperate about the financial situation. I have been

:46:51.:46:54.

meeting with those teachers and we have secured a meeting with the

:46:55.:46:57.

schools minister. That was cancelled because of this general election.

:46:58.:47:02.

This Government did not want to talk about education but people do. ?5

:47:03.:47:09.

billion. Jeremy Corbyn said he would put ?5 billion extra into schools.

:47:10.:47:13.

Down the back of which so far is it going to find that money? This is

:47:14.:47:17.

looking at how he can use corporation tax. When I meet with

:47:18.:47:21.

businesses, we are talking about how this would be cost-effective.

:47:22.:47:25.

Businesses are talking about the skills gap where people do not have

:47:26.:47:28.

the skills and the qualifications that we need is a thriving economy.

:47:29.:47:32.

This is one of the ways we are looking to do that. You are going to

:47:33.:47:37.

tax businesses more. Assuming those companies do not leave the country

:47:38.:47:42.

and the economy continues at the same pace it is doing now, those

:47:43.:47:48.

sums do not add up, do they? Education is so important. If we

:47:49.:47:52.

wanted a thriving economy and bright future for this country, we have to

:47:53.:47:55.

get education right. The details will be a neat manifesto next week.

:47:56.:47:59.

We are looking at doing that whilst protecting Smalls businesses. Can we

:48:00.:48:06.

trust the liberal Democrats again after you broke your promise on

:48:07.:48:13.

Jewish and fees? You can trust me. Education is -- education fees. She

:48:14.:48:25.

went off to university part-time. I have seen the power education can

:48:26.:48:31.

change lives. The education premium to give money to the most

:48:32.:48:35.

disadvantaged children to make sure there is a level playing field. We

:48:36.:48:40.

are committed to improving the educational opportunities are people

:48:41.:48:44.

in Halifax. Halifax under the Conservative Government in Halifax,

:48:45.:48:49.

people's education has fallen behind. We are behind the national

:48:50.:48:53.

averages and I want to tackle that as MP. All I know about Ukip

:48:54.:49:00.

education policy is that you want more grammar schools. Is that about

:49:01.:49:05.

it? We do and we want technical schools as well. There is more to it

:49:06.:49:10.

than that. I think when people see that video that we have seen, it is

:49:11.:49:14.

disgraceful with the Conservative cuts that they are not coming to

:49:15.:49:17.

talk about today. I think when people are out there and they are

:49:18.:49:20.

saying we're going to vote Conservatives because of Brexit, the

:49:21.:49:24.

also need to at things like that we are when they are voting for the

:49:25.:49:28.

Conservatives, they are voting for cuts in the area. I using Ukip wants

:49:29.:49:34.

more money put into schools? We would you find that from? A good

:49:35.:49:38.

place to start would be the foreign aid budget. 13.2 billion last year.

:49:39.:49:43.

Which we would significantly cut to spend more money in this country and

:49:44.:49:48.

Halifax. Calderdale has two grammar schools. Would you support my

:49:49.:49:52.

grammar schools in your area? No, we are different in Halifax. Two of the

:49:53.:49:58.

secondary schools are grammar schools. Where trees are made as

:49:59.:50:05.

seeing that grammar schools are the future. -- Theresa May. Grammar

:50:06.:50:08.

schools are coming to me saying we have to make desperate decisions

:50:09.:50:13.

about staff and resources and they cannot see a financial future at the

:50:14.:50:17.

moment. She is not funding the grammar schools we have got properly

:50:18.:50:21.

so how can we trust her judgment on grammar schools in the future? I

:50:22.:50:25.

presume Ukip would want to see my grammar schools? And to be clear,

:50:26.:50:30.

technical skills. There are a lot of people out there who are more

:50:31.:50:33.

technically minded and would have a far better opportunity if they went

:50:34.:50:36.

to a technical school in order to learn about the technology. What is

:50:37.:50:42.

wrong with that, more technical schools? Teach children practical

:50:43.:50:46.

skills. There is nothing wrong with teaching children practical skills.

:50:47.:50:49.

We have an effect of College in Calderdale that does that already

:50:50.:50:54.

and they have a great track record of success. The problem with grammar

:50:55.:50:57.

schools, they are not working and they are not helping the people who

:50:58.:51:01.

do not get into the grammar schools. We see a situation where the

:51:02.:51:06.

children who can afford it, pay for extra tuition. It is not helping to

:51:07.:51:10.

tackle the problems. There is a lack of social mobility and to many

:51:11.:51:15.

people think they do not have the life chances that other people may

:51:16.:51:19.

have. We need to improve those life opportunities for people living in

:51:20.:51:23.

Halifax. I am sure at this debate will go on long after this election

:51:24.:51:25.

campaign, no doubt. Now - our cameras have been out

:51:26.:51:28.

in the fields of Yorkshire this week as both Labour and Conservative

:51:29.:51:31.

party leaders arrived in the region to set

:51:32.:51:33.

out their policies on immigration. Freedom of movement of workers

:51:34.:51:36.

was a crucial battleground for leavers and remainers

:51:37.:51:38.

in the referendum last June. Almost a year on, we sent

:51:39.:51:40.

Richard Edwards to talk He is one of the tens of thousands

:51:41.:51:42.

of EU nationals living In Yorkshire, their numbers rose by

:51:43.:51:53.

a quarter in the four years to 2015. But as Britain waits for the Brexit

:51:54.:51:59.

talks to get into full swing, Victor and other EU migrants

:52:00.:52:02.

are asking big questions When I go to work now, I know

:52:03.:52:04.

I have a limited time for two years. If you look at the normal concerns,

:52:05.:52:11.

food, job, friends, everything, you have a plan what to do and then

:52:12.:52:15.

you get the news of Brexit. We are treated like

:52:16.:52:19.

bargaining chips. Can I have a pack

:52:20.:52:20.

of asparagus, please? Claire Thomas runs a farm

:52:21.:52:26.

called Warfedale Grange Claire relies on Victor's labour

:52:27.:52:34.

and says she wants answers I could not continue without someone

:52:35.:52:37.

doing the sort of day-to-day Victor will get up at the crack

:52:38.:52:44.

of dawn and say, you know, I have bunched 50 lots of 25 bunches

:52:45.:52:48.

of marguerites for me I feel very sorry for Victor

:52:49.:52:51.

because he does not know when he goes home next

:52:52.:52:56.

time whether he will So he can't make any

:52:57.:52:59.

permanent plans. And, you know, he is like a member

:53:00.:53:04.

of the family, really. So what do the two possible

:53:05.:53:09.

Prime Ministers say about this? Well, they have both been

:53:10.:53:12.

in our region this week. Conservative party leader

:53:13.:53:14.

Theresa May found herself put on the spot by a foreign-born worker

:53:15.:53:16.

while on a factory visit. Are you going to preserve our right

:53:17.:53:26.

to reside in this country or maybe in the future are you going to send

:53:27.:53:29.

us back to our home country? What I want to do,

:53:30.:53:33.

and what I expect to do and intend to guarantee EU citizens

:53:34.:53:36.

who are living here their rights and status but, I am sure

:53:37.:53:40.

you understand as the UK Prime Minister, I also want to think

:53:41.:53:42.

about UK citizens who are living While Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

:53:43.:53:45.

popped into the Look North studios in between campaign visits

:53:46.:53:49.

to Leeds and Garforth. We will also make sure

:53:50.:53:51.

that we protect those achieved through Europe,

:53:52.:53:53.

such as working time directive We will also guarantee the rights

:53:54.:53:56.

of EU nationals to remain here. In the background to all of this

:53:57.:54:02.

a counselling company in York says it is helping Eastern European

:54:03.:54:06.

clients who are being bullied They are definitely related to

:54:07.:54:08.

Brexit because the underlying issues are if I separate from my partner,

:54:09.:54:12.

will I still have I have lived in this

:54:13.:54:15.

country for a long time, will I have to go back

:54:16.:54:18.

to my own country? So those are definitely

:54:19.:54:21.

related to their future. So that evidence coming from a firm

:54:22.:54:30.

in remain supporting York. Welcome to strongly

:54:31.:54:32.

leave voting Wakefield. Let's see what people in this cafe

:54:33.:54:35.

have to say about in it. Because they are foreigners

:54:36.:54:40.

they come first every time. They get the best houses,

:54:41.:54:48.

best jobs and it is all wrong. I do not think they

:54:49.:54:51.

are being picked on. I think it is them

:54:52.:54:55.

that are causing it. Put in for compensation

:54:56.:54:57.

and causing trouble. I have worked in the industry

:54:58.:55:10.

where are was a majority of Eastern Europeans

:55:11.:55:13.

that were supervisors. I don't think English

:55:14.:55:14.

people like that. The fact they are coming to our

:55:15.:55:16.

country and telling us what to do. It's a bit of a smack

:55:17.:55:19.

in the mouth, really. Does Victor have any message

:55:20.:55:22.

for the the new Government once You are English, you have

:55:23.:55:29.

to love your country, Try to look in your soul

:55:30.:55:32.

and be a human being. I'm sure everything will come up

:55:33.:55:36.

very good for England in the future. Richard Edwards reporting. We are

:55:37.:55:56.

joined live by the candidates in the Halifax constituency. The

:55:57.:56:00.

Conservative Party candidate declined our invitation to take part

:56:01.:56:05.

Ukip message to the hard-working Ukip message to the hard-working

:56:06.:56:10.

migrant workers across our part of the world who are worried they may

:56:11.:56:14.

not have a future in this country after Brexit? I would like to see to

:56:15.:56:17.

Victor directly that he should not be worried. Our policy is and has

:56:18.:56:24.

always been that anyone who came to the UK legally to work will remain

:56:25.:56:29.

after Brexit. It is concerning that there are so many scare stories out

:56:30.:56:35.

there. Likewise, for expats abroad, they are also concerned. To reason

:56:36.:56:42.

may yesterday saying that she intends to, or a wants to, she

:56:43.:56:46.

should do something and deliver something and bring this to the

:56:47.:56:50.

fronts of people stop worrying. -- Theresa May. If someone comes up to

:56:51.:56:54.

you on the streets of Halifax and says to you, I going to be allowed

:56:55.:56:59.

to stay in this country, what is your response? As far as Ukip are

:57:00.:57:05.

concerned, yes, you are allowed to stay. Do the liberal Democrats

:57:06.:57:08.

believe in any form of border control? Can I respond to what Mark

:57:09.:57:15.

said. I think the we heard from Ukip around the referendum campaign was

:57:16.:57:19.

appalling. Use these posters... It is fine saying we will protect them

:57:20.:57:24.

but there were posters with queues of immigrants and rhetoric that

:57:25.:57:31.

demonises people like Victor who have come here. We had been

:57:32.:57:39.

increased racism under is all around this culture of fear and division

:57:40.:57:42.

that we have seen in this country. I want to break away from that and

:57:43.:57:47.

have a politics where we treat other people like human beings and we

:57:48.:57:49.

value the contribution that value the contribution that

:57:50.:57:53.

immigrants make in the UK. There might be a problem about immigration

:57:54.:57:56.

and we need funding for local Government. You do not believe in

:57:57.:58:01.

any form of immigration control? I believe you should have checks and

:58:02.:58:04.

people come in here to make sure they are not criminals. I believe in

:58:05.:58:09.

the freedom of movement between the European Union. I am a liberal and I

:58:10.:58:21.

believe in freedom and the freedom of movement and freedom of capital

:58:22.:58:23.

is better for our society. It enriches people's lives and help our

:58:24.:58:26.

economy. Do you one to answer that point? Nigel Swaraj and that poster

:58:27.:58:31.

of queues of people. -- NIgel Farage. People who are already here

:58:32.:58:41.

should be able to stay. The difference is, looking at future

:58:42.:58:45.

immigration, we need to put some control on that and the Liberal

:58:46.:58:50.

Democrats are not going to control that and Ukip by the party to

:58:51.:58:53.

control immigration in the future. Is Jeremy Corbyn right to refuse to

:58:54.:58:58.

commit to reducing immigration if he becomes Prime Minister? One of the

:58:59.:59:04.

things I have been doing, I was in the Parliamentary group on

:59:05.:59:07.

immigration and that was going out and having conversations with people

:59:08.:59:12.

to see what we have to do to make sure to amenities are comfortable

:59:13.:59:18.

with immigration. We took evidence that was from Australia. What

:59:19.:59:25.

industry needs and the use that information to feed into the

:59:26.:59:28.

education policy and their immigration policy. Where we have

:59:29.:59:32.

seen this Conservative Government just setting these targets, which by

:59:33.:59:36.

their own measures keep failing to hit, would not be good if we were

:59:37.:59:41.

working with communities to say what we want from immigration... The

:59:42.:59:44.

answer to the questionnaires otherwise, no, you do not want to

:59:45.:59:48.

see immigration reduced. That is not true. We have to start to work out

:59:49.:59:52.

what we need and then use that a basis to work out figures. Could I

:59:53.:59:58.

suggest an Australian points-based system would be a good place to

:59:59.:00:03.

start? It has to be about education... Hollick, I hear you

:00:04.:00:06.

speak in favour of immigration but you do not want to come out and say

:00:07.:00:09.

you are in favour of immigration because you are aware that there are

:00:10.:00:14.

people in Halifax who are concerned about it that. I think there are

:00:15.:00:20.

people who are confused. Sometimes you say you are in favour of opening

:00:21.:00:26.

up... I do not wear where labour stands on this. The 55% of people in

:00:27.:00:31.

Calderdale who voted to leave the European Union, due not accept they

:00:32.:00:36.

did so with the hope that net migration would be reduced? Yes, I

:00:37.:00:41.

accept that. There was a lady there in that clip saying... She was

:00:42.:00:47.

trying to suggest people who come to this country are making trouble. We

:00:48.:00:52.

have to challenge that as well. We need to manage migration but it is

:00:53.:00:55.

healthy 40 minute is as well. Thank you for your thoughts today.

:00:56.:00:57.

emotive subject and we have run out of time.

:00:58.:01:04.

On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary

:01:05.:01:09.

seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's

:01:10.:01:11.

We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out

:01:12.:01:19.

what they might tell us about the make-up of the House

:01:20.:01:21.

Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and

:01:22.:01:26.

analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that

:01:27.:01:31.

in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave

:01:32.:01:33.

during last year's referendum campaign

:01:34.:01:41.

and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public

:01:42.:01:43.

In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs

:01:44.:01:49.

were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour

:01:50.:01:52.

Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats

:01:53.:01:58.

17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn.

:01:59.:02:01.

20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest

:02:02.:02:05.

or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and

:02:06.:02:10.

If they won those, the Labour benches would be

:02:11.:02:15.

marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now.

:02:16.:02:18.

What do the figures tell us about where the other

:02:19.:02:20.

Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens

:02:21.:02:24.

in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629

:02:25.:02:26.

candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015.

:02:27.:02:28.

The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically.

:02:29.:02:32.

They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015,

:02:33.:02:38.

throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories

:02:39.:02:41.

in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North.

:02:42.:02:45.

The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates

:02:46.:02:49.

than at the last election, standing down to help

:02:50.:02:59.

other progressive candidates in some places.

:03:00.:03:06.

The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this

:03:07.:03:18.

their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip

:03:19.:03:25.

candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in

:03:26.:03:28.

the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank

:03:29.:03:38.

Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this

:03:39.:03:43.

election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if

:03:44.:03:45.

you take the things together that could explain why the polls are

:03:46.:03:50.

where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start

:03:51.:03:55.

of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we

:03:56.:04:00.

started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the

:04:01.:04:08.

size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip,

:04:09.:04:12.

but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their

:04:13.:04:18.

only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because

:04:19.:04:22.

they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the

:04:23.:04:30.

impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible

:04:31.:04:33.

thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left,

:04:34.:04:41.

consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt,

:04:42.:04:47.

it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to

:04:48.:04:52.

fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour

:04:53.:04:58.

Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same

:04:59.:05:03.

votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on

:05:04.:05:06.

the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It

:05:07.:05:12.

happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own

:05:13.:05:18.

fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the

:05:19.:05:21.

dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of

:05:22.:05:26.

the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a

:05:27.:05:31.

way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on

:05:32.:05:36.

the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the

:05:37.:05:40.

right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to

:05:41.:05:44.

the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be

:05:45.:05:51.

outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she

:05:52.:05:55.

is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions.

:05:56.:05:58.

What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes

:05:59.:06:01.

ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not

:06:02.:06:07.

declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have

:06:08.:06:11.

thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim,

:06:12.:06:15.

that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's

:06:16.:06:20.

about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of

:06:21.:06:25.

Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even

:06:26.:06:31.

have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May.

:06:32.:06:36.

I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put

:06:37.:06:40.

it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because

:06:41.:06:46.

of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is

:06:47.:06:52.

coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet

:06:53.:06:57.

sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it

:06:58.:07:01.

will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you

:07:02.:07:09.

will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never

:07:10.:07:12.

have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one.

:07:13.:07:22.

When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I

:07:23.:07:27.

would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my

:07:28.:07:32.

excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most

:07:33.:07:36.

important day for the British government for the next five years.

:07:37.:07:44.

That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even

:07:45.:07:50.

being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and

:07:51.:07:57.

it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it

:07:58.:08:01.

safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might

:08:02.:08:06.

be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to

:08:07.:08:11.

do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a

:08:12.:08:15.

year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out

:08:16.:08:20.

what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next

:08:21.:08:22.

parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next

:08:23.:08:26.

important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate

:08:27.:08:31.

for that if the polls are right but she

:08:32.:08:42.

does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a

:08:43.:08:46.

country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different

:08:47.:08:48.

ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election.

:08:49.:08:51.

You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on

:08:52.:08:54.

implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly

:08:55.:08:58.

pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it

:08:59.:09:01.

will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the

:09:02.:09:05.

line which interests me about its time to look at the good that

:09:06.:09:10.

government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK

:09:11.:09:17.

politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure

:09:18.:09:20.

about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne

:09:21.:09:24.

government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about

:09:25.:09:29.

the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently

:09:30.:09:32.

doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether

:09:33.:09:37.

it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory

:09:38.:09:42.

message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted

:09:43.:09:50.

Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so

:09:51.:09:55.

on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with

:09:56.:09:59.

it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does

:10:00.:10:04.

deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of

:10:05.:10:09.

this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to

:10:10.:10:18.

someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May

:10:19.:10:21.

never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office

:10:22.:10:24.

briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs.

:10:25.:10:32.

So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick

:10:33.:10:40.

Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be

:10:41.:10:45.

interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be

:10:46.:10:51.

talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the

:10:52.:11:00.

suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much

:11:01.:11:05.

Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington

:11:06.:11:11.

Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class

:11:12.:11:15.

voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government

:11:16.:11:20.

out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help

:11:21.:11:24.

their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of

:11:25.:11:36.

what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it

:11:37.:11:39.

suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the

:11:40.:11:48.

boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing

:11:49.:11:53.

happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015

:11:54.:11:58.

manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably

:11:59.:12:01.

had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference

:12:02.:12:06.

speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If

:12:07.:12:11.

she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will

:12:12.:12:15.

have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will

:12:16.:12:19.

be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming

:12:20.:12:25.

issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant

:12:26.:12:28.

development in terms of an argument around the role of government,

:12:29.:12:33.

much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As

:12:34.:12:38.

much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear

:12:39.:12:41.

strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely,

:12:42.:12:50.

and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are

:12:51.:12:55.

all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks

:12:56.:12:59.

to our panel. The Daily Politics will be

:13:00.:13:01.

back on BBC Two at noon I'll be back here at the same time

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on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday,

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it's the Sunday Politics. When it came to my TV habits,

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I'd watch anything... But now I can sign in online

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and get more of what I love. I'm kept up to date

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with the shows I love and I get suggestions

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on subjects I'll like. A new personalised BBC

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is on its way. To tailor the benefits to you,

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sign in and introduce yourself.

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Andrew Neil and Tim Iredale are joined by shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey and Home Office minister Brandon Lewis to discuss the party manifestos for the forthcoming general election. Plus American political pollster Frank Luntz, and a chat with undecided voters in Leeds. Journalists Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards review the papers.