Browse content similar to 15/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
Is the Prime Minister prepared to end Britain's membership | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
of the EU's single market and its customs union? | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
We preview Theresa May's big speech, as she seeks to unite the country | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
Is the press a force for good or a beast that needs taming? | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
As the Government ponders its decision, we speak to one | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
of those leading the campaign for greater regulation. | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
Just what kind of President will Donald Trump be? | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
Piers Morgan, a man who knows him well, joins us live. | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
In London this week: With the rail and Tube strikes bringing | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
the capital to a standstill, can a political solution be found | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
And to help me make sense of all that, three of the finest | :01:19. | :01:32. | |
hacks we could persuade to work on a Sunday - Steve Richards, | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme, and you can join | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
So, Theresa May is preparing for her big Brexit speech on Tuesday, | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
in which she will urge people to give up on "insults" | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
and "division" and unite to build, quote, a "global Britain". | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
Some of the Sunday papers report that the Prime Minister will go | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
The Sunday Telegraph splashes with the headline: "May's big | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
gamble on a clean Brexit", saying the Prime Minister | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
will announce she's prepared to take Britain out of membership | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
of the single market and customs union. | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
The Sunday Times has a similar write-up - | :02:16. | :02:17. | |
they call it a "clean and hard Brexit". | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
The Brexit Secretary David Davis has also written a piece in the paper | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
hinting that a transitional deal could be on the cards. | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
And the Sunday Express says: "May's Brexit Battle Plan", | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
explaining that the Prime Minister will get tough with Brussels | :02:31. | :02:32. | |
and call for an end to free movement. | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
Well, let's get some more reaction on this. | :02:36. | :02:37. | |
I'm joined now from Cumbria by the leader | :02:38. | :02:39. | |
of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron. | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
Mr Farron, welcome back to the programme. The Prime Minister says | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
most people now just want to get on with it and make a success of it. | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
But you still want to stop it, don't you? Well, I certainly take the view | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
that heading for a hard Brexit, essentially that means being outside | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
the Single Market and the customs union, is not something that was on | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
the ballot paper last June. For Theresa May to adopt what is | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
basically the large all Farage vision of Britain's relationship | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
with Europe is not what was voted for last June. It is right for us to | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
stand up and say that a hard Brexit is not the democratic choice of the | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
British people, and that we should be fighting for the people to be the | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
ones who have the Seat the end of this process, not have it forced | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
upon them by Theresa May and David Davis. When it comes though dual | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
position that we should remain in the membership of the Single Market | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
and the customs union, it looks like you are losing the argument, doesn't | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
it? My sense is that if you believe in being in the Single Market and | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
the customs union are good things, I think many people on the leave site | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
believe that, Stephen Phillips, the Conservative MP until the autumn who | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
resigned, who voted for Leave but believe we should be in the Single | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
Market, I think those people believe that it is wrong for us to enter the | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
negotiations having given up on the most important part of it. If you | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
really are going to fight Britain's corner, then you should go in there | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
fighting the membership of the Single Market, not give up and | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
whitefly, as Theresa May has done before we even start. -- and wave | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
the white flag. Will you vote against regret Article 50 in the | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
Commons? We made it clear that we want the British people to have the | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
final Seat -- vote against triggering. Will you vote against | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
Article 50. Will you encourage the House of Lords to vote against out | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
Article 50? I don't think they will get a chance to vote. They will have | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
a chance to win the deuce amendments. One amendment we will | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
introduce is that there should be a referendum in the terms of the deal. | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
It is not right that Parliament on Government, and especially not civil | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
servants in Brussels and Whitehall, they should stitch-up the final | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
deal. That would be wrong. It is right that the British people have | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
the final say. I understand that as your position. You made it clear | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
Britain to remain a member of the Single Market on the customs union. | :05:14. | :05:15. | |
You accept, I assume, that that would mean remaining under the | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, continuing free movement | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
of people, and the free-trade deals remained in Brussels' competence. So | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
it seems to me that if you believe that being in the Single Market is a | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
good thing, then you should go and argue for that. Whilst I believe | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
that we're not going to get a better deal than the one we currently have, | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
nevertheless it is up to the Government to go and argue for the | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
best deal possible for us outside. You accept your position would mean | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
that? It would mean certainly being in the Single Market and the customs | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
union. It's no surprise to you I'm sure that the Lib Dems believe the | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
package we have got now inside the EU is going to be of the Nutley | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
better than anything we get from the outside, I accept the direction of | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
travel -- is going to be the Nutley better. At the moment, what the | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
Government are doing is assuming that all the things you say Drew, | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
and there is no way possible for us arguing for a deal that allows in | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
the Single Market without some of those other things. If they really | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
believed in the best for Britain, you would go and argue for the best | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
for Britain. Let's be clear, if we remain under the jurisdiction of the | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
ECJ, which is the court that governs membership of the Single Market, | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
continued free movement of people, the Europeans have made clear, is | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
what goes with the Single Market. And free-trade deals remaining under | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
Brussels' competence. If we accepted all of that is the price of | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
membership of the Single Market, in what conceivable way with that | :06:45. | :06:46. | |
amount to leaving the European Union? Well, for example, I do | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
believe that being a member of the Single Market is worth fighting for. | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
I personally believe that freedom of movement is a good thing. British | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
people benefit from freedom of movement. We will hugely be hit as | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
individuals and families and businesses. Mike I understand, but | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
your writing of leaving... There the butt is that if you do except that | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
freedom of movement has to change, I don't, but if you do, and if you are | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
Theresa May, and the problem is to go and fight for the best deal, | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
don't take it from Brussels that you can't be in the Single Market | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
without those other things as well, you don't go and argue the case. It | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
depresses me that Theresa May is beginning this process is waving the | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
white flag, just as this morning Jeremy Corbyn was waving the white | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
flag when it comes to it. We need a Government that will fight Britain's | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
corner and an opposition that will fight the Government to make sure | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
that it fights. Just explain to our viewers how we could remain members, | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
members of the Single Market, and not be subject to the jurisdiction | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
of the European court? So, first of all we spent over the last many, | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
many years, the likes of Nigel Farage and others, will have argued, | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
you heard them on this very programme, that Britain should | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
aspire to be like Norway and Switzerland for example, countries | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
that are not in the European Union but aren't the Single Market. It is | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
very clear to me that if you want the best deal for Britain -- but are | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
in the Single Market. You go and argue for the best deal. What is the | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
answer to my question, you haven't answered it | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
the question is, how does the Prime Minister go and fight for the best | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
deal for Britain. If we think that being in the Single Market is the | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
right thing, not Baxter -- not access to it but membership of it, | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
you don't wave the white flag before you enter the negotiating room. I'm | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
afraid we have run out of time. Thank you, Tim Farron. | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
The leaks on this speech on Tuesday we have seen, it is interesting that | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
Downing Street has not attempted to dampen them down this morning, in | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
the various papers, do they tell us something new? Do they tell us more | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
of the Goverment's aims in the Brexit negotiations? I think it's | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
only a confirmation of something which has been in the mating really | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
for the six months that she's been in the job. The logic of everything | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
that she's said since last July, the keenness on re-gaining control of | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
migration, the desire to do international trade deals, the fact | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
that she is appointed trade Secretary, the logic of all of that | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
is that we are out of the Single Market, quite probably out of the | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
customs union, what will happen this week is a restatement of a fairly | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
clear position anyway. I think Tim Farron is right about one thing, I | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
don't think she will go into the speech planning to absolutely | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
definitively say, we are leaving those things. Because even if there | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
is a 1% chance of a miracle deal, where you stay in the Single Market, | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
somehow get exempted from free movement, it is prudent to keep | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
hopes on that option as a Prime Minister. -- to keep open that | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
option. She is being advised both by the diplomatic corps and her | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
personal advisers, don't concede on membership of the Single Market yet. | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
We know it's not going to happen, but let them Europeans knock us back | :10:13. | :10:21. | |
on that,... That is probably the right strategy for all of the | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
reasons that Jarlan outlined there. What we learned a bit today is the | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
possibility of some kind of transition or arrangements, which | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
David Davies has been talking about in a comment piece for one of the | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
Sunday papers. My sense from Brexiteers aborting MPs is that they | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
are very happy with 90% of the rhetoric -- Brexit sporting MPs. The | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
rhetoric has not been dampened down by MPs, apart from this transitional | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
arrangement, which they feel and two France, on the one front will | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
encourage the very dilatory EU to spend longer than ever negotiating a | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
deal, and on the other hand will also be exactly what our civil | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
service looks for in stringing things out. What wasn't explained | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
this morning is what David Davies means by transitional is not that | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
you negotiate what you can in two years and then spend another five | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
years on the matter is that a lot of the soul. He thinks everything has | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
to be done in the two years, -- of the matter are hard to solve. But it | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
would include transitional arrangements over the five years. | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
What we are seeing in the build-up is the danger of making these kind | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
of speeches. In a way, I kind of admired her not feeding the media | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
machine over the autumn and the end of last year cars, as Janan has | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
pointed out in his columns, she has actually said quite a lot from it, | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
you would extrapolate quite a lot. We won't be members of the Single | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
Market? She said that in the party conference speech, we are out of | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
European court. Her red line is the end of free movement, so we are out | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
of the Single Market. Why has she sent Liam Fox to negotiate all of | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
these other deals, not that he will succeed necessarily, but that is the | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
intention? We are still in the customs union. You can extrapolate | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
what she will say perhaps more cautiously in the headlines on | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
Tuesday. But the grammar of a big speech raises expectations, gets the | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
markets worked up. So she is doing it because people have said that she | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
doesn't know what she's on about. But maybe she should have resisted | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
it. Very well, and she hasn't. The speech is on Tuesday morning. | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
Now, the public consultation on press regulation closed this | :12:32. | :12:33. | |
week, and soon ministers will have to decide whether to | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
enact a controversial piece of legislation. | :12:37. | :12:37. | |
Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act, if implemented, | :12:38. | :12:39. | |
could see newspapers forced to pay legal costs in libel and privacy | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
If they don't sign up to an officially approved regulator. | :12:43. | :12:52. | |
The newspapers say it's an affront to a free press, | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
while pro-privacy campaigners say it's the only way to ensure | :12:56. | :12:57. | |
a scandal like phone-hacking can't happen again. | :12:58. | :12:59. | |
Ellie Price has been reading all about it. | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
It was the biggest news about the news for decades, | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
a scandal that involved household names, but not just celebrities. | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
They've even hacked the phone of a murdered schoolgirl. | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
It led to the closure of the News Of The World, | :13:18. | :13:19. | |
a year-long public inquiry headed up by the judge Lord Justice Leveson, | :13:20. | :13:29. | |
and in the end, a new press watchdog set up by Royal Charter, | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
which could impose, among other things, million-pound fines. | :13:33. | :13:34. | |
If this system is implemented, the country should have confidence | :13:35. | :13:36. | |
that the terrible suffering of innocent victims | :13:37. | :13:38. | |
like the Dowlers, the McCanns and Christopher Jefferies should | :13:39. | :13:40. | |
To get this new plan rolling, the Government also passed | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
the Crime and Courts Act, Section 40 of which would force | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
publications who didn't sign up to the new regulator to pay legal | :13:52. | :13:53. | |
costs in libel and privacy cases, even if they won. | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
It's waiting for sign-off from the Culture Secretary. | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
We've got about 50 publications that have signed up... | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
This is Impress, the press regulator that's got the backing | :14:06. | :14:07. | |
of the Royal Charter, so its members are protected | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
from the penalties that would be imposed by Section 40. | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
It's funded by the Formula One tycoon Max Mosley's | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
I think the danger if we don't get Section 40 is that | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
you have an incomplete Leveson project. | :14:28. | :14:29. | |
I think it's very, very likely that within the next five or ten years | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
there will be a scandal, there'll be a crisis in press | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
standards, everyone will be saying to the Government, | :14:36. | :14:37. | |
"Why on Earth didn't you sort things out when you had the chance?" | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
Isn't Section 40 essentially just a big stick to beat | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
We hear a lot about the stick part, but there's also a big juicy carrot | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
for publishers and their journalists who are members of an | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
They get huge new protections from libel threats, | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
from privacy actions, which actually means they've got | :14:57. | :14:58. | |
a lot more opportunity to run investigative stories. | :14:59. | :15:07. | |
Impress has a big image problem - not a single national | :15:08. | :15:09. | |
Instead, many of them are members of Ipso, | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
the independent regulator set up and funded by the industry that | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
doesn't seek the recognition of the Royal Charter. | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
The male cells around 22,000 each day... | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
There are regional titles too, who, like the Birmingham Mail, | :15:28. | :15:29. | |
won't sign up to Impress, even if they say the costs | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
are associated with Section 40 could put them out of business. | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
Impress has an umbilical cord that goes directly back to Government | :15:37. | :15:38. | |
through the recognition setup that it has. | :15:39. | :15:40. | |
Now, we broke free of the shackles of the regulated press | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
when the stamp duty was revealed 150 years ago. | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
If we go back to this level of oversight, then I think | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
we turn the clock back, 150 years of press freedom. | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
The responses from the public have been coming thick and fast | :15:59. | :16:00. | |
since the Government launched its consultation | :16:01. | :16:02. | |
In fact, by the time it closed on Tuesday, | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
And for that reason alone, it could take months before | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
a decision on what happens next is taken. | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
The Government will also be minded to listen to its own MPs, | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
One described it to me as Draconian and hugely damaging. | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
So, will the current Culture Secretary's thinking be | :16:24. | :16:25. | |
I don't think the Government will repeal section 40. | :16:26. | :16:33. | |
What I'm arguing for is not to implement it, but it will remain | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
on the statute book and if it then became apparent that Ipso simply | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
was failing to work, was not delivering effective | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
regulation and the press were behaving in a way | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
which was wholly unacceptable, as they were ten years ago, | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
then there might be an argument at that time to think well in that | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
case we are going to have to take further measures, | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
The future of section 40 might not be so black and white. | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
I'm told a compromise could be met whereby the punitive parts | :17:05. | :17:06. | |
about legal costs are dropped, but the incentives | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
to join a recognised regulator are beefed up. | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
But it could yet be some time until the issue of press freedom | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
I'm joined now by Max Mosley - he won a legal case against the News | :17:17. | :17:27. | |
Of The World after it revealed details about his private life, | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
and he now campaigns for more press regulation. | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
Are welcome to the programme. Let me ask you this, how can it be right | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
that you, who many folk think have a clear vendetta against the British | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
press, can bankroll a government approved regulator of the press? If | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
we hadn't done it, nobody would, section 40 would never have come | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
into force because there would never have been a regulator. It is | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
absolutely wrong that a family trust should have to finance something | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
like this. It should be financed by the press or the Government. If we | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
hadn't done it there would be no possibility of regulation. But it | :18:11. | :18:11. | |
means we end up with a regulator financed by you, as I say | :18:12. | :18:38. | |
many people think you have a clear vendetta against the press. Where | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
does the money come from? From a family trust, it is family money. | :18:42. | :18:43. | |
You have to understand that somebody had to do this. I understand that. | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
People like to know where the money comes from, I think you said it came | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
from Brixton Steyn at one stage. Ages ago my father had a trust there | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
but now all my money is in the UK. We are clear about that, but this is | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
money that was put together by your father. Yes, my father inherited it | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
from his father and his father. The whole of Manchester once belonged to | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
the family, that's why there is a Mosley Street. That is irrelevant | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
because as we have given the money, I have no control. If you do the | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
most elementary checks into the contract between my family trust, | :19:14. | :19:24. | |
the trust but finances Impress, it is impossible for me to exert any | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
influence. It is just the same as if it had come from the National | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
lottery. People will find it ironic that the money has come from | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
historically Britain's best-known fascist. No, it has come from my | :19:40. | :19:48. | |
family, the Mosley family. This is complete drivel because we have no | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
control. Where the money comes from doesn't matter, if it had come from | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
the national lottery it would be exactly the same. Impress was | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
completely independent. But it wouldn't exist without your money, | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
wouldn't it? But that doesn't give you influence. It might exist | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
because it was founded before I was ever in contact with them. Isn't it | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
curious then that so many leading light show your hostile views of the | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
press? I don't think it is because I don't know a single member of the | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
Impress board. The chairman I have met months. The only person I know | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
is Jonathan Hayward who you had on just now. In one recent months he | :20:33. | :20:40. | |
tweeted 50 attacks on the Daily Mail, including some calling for an | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
advertising boycott of the paper. He also liked a Twitter post calling me | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
Daily Mail and neofascist rag. Are these fitting for what is meant to | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
be impartial regulator? The person you should ask about that is the | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
press regulatory panel and they are completely independent, they | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
reviewed the whole thing. You have probably produced something very | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
selective, I have no idea but I am certain that these people are | :21:10. | :21:11. | |
absolutely trustworthy and independent. It is not just Mr | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
Hayward, we have a tonne of things he has tweeted calling for boycotts, | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
remember this is the man that would be the regulator of these papers. | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
He's the chief executive, that is a separate thing. The administration, | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
the regulator. Many leading light show your vendetta of the press. I | :21:34. | :21:42. | |
do not have a vendetta. Let's take another one. This person is on the | :21:43. | :21:58. | |
code committee. Have a look at this. As someone with these views fit to | :21:59. | :22:05. | |
be involved in the regulation of the press? You said I have a vendetta | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
against the press, I do not, I didn't say that and it is completely | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
wrong to say I have a vendetta. What do you think of that? I don't agree, | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
I wouldn't ban the Daily Mail, I think it's a dreadful paper but I | :22:20. | :22:30. | |
wouldn't ban it. Another Impress code committee said I hate the Daily | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
Mail, I couldn't agree more, others have called for a boycott. Other | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
people can say what they want and many people may think they are right | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
but surely these views make them unfit to be partial regulators? I | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
have no influence over Impress therefore I cannot say anything | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
about it. You should ask them, not me. All I have done is make it | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
possible for Impress to exist and that was the right thing to do. I'm | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
asking you if people with these kind of views are fit to be regulators of | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
the press. You would have to ask about all of their views, these are | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
some of their views. A lot of people have a downer on the Daily Mail and | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
the Sun, it doesn't necessarily make them party pre-. Why would | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
newspapers sign up to a regulator run by what they think is run by | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
enemies out to ruin them. If they don't like it they should start | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
their own section 40 regulator. They could make it so recognised, if only | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
they would make it independent of the big newspaper barons but they | :23:48. | :23:57. | |
won't -- they could make Ipso recognised. Is the Daily Mail | :23:58. | :24:07. | |
fascist? It certainly was in the 1930s. Me and my father are | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
relevant, this whole section 40 issue is about access to justice. | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
The press don't want ordinary people who cannot afford to bring an action | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
against the press, don't want them to have access to justice. I can | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
understand that but I don't sympathise. What would happen to the | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
boss of Ofcom, which regulates broadcasters, if it described | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
Channel 4 News is a Marxist scum? If the press don't want to sign up to | :24:37. | :24:46. | |
Impress they can create their own regulator. If you were to listen we | :24:47. | :24:55. | |
would get a lot further. The press should make their own Levenson | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
compliant regulator, then they would have no complaints at all. Even | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
papers like the Guardian, the Independent, the Financial Times, | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
they show your hostility to tabloid journalism. They have refused to be | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
regulated by Impress. I will say it again, the press could start their | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
own regulator, they do not have to sign... Yes, but Levenson compliant | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
one giving access to justice so people who cannot afford an | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
expensive legal action have a proper arbitration service. The Guardian, | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
the Independent, the Financial Times, they don't want to do that | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
either. That would suggest there is something fatally flawed about your | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
approach. Even these kind of papers, the Guardian, Impress is hardly | :25:44. | :25:55. | |
independent, the head of... Andrew, I am sorry, you are like a dog with | :25:56. | :26:03. | |
a bone. The press could start their own regulator, then people like the | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
Financial Times, the Guardian and so one could decide whether they wanted | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
to join or not but what is absolutely vital is that we should | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
have a proper arbitration service so that people who cannot afford an | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
expensive action have somewhere to go. This business of section 40 | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
which you want to be triggered which would mean papers that didn't sign | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
up to Impress could be sued in any case and they would have to pay | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
potentially massive legal costs, even if they win. Yes. This is what | :26:32. | :26:40. | |
the number of papers have said about this, if section 40 was triggered, | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
the Guardian wouldn't even think of investigation. The Sunday Times said | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
it would not have even started to expose Lance Armstrong. The Times | :26:54. | :26:55. | |
journalist said he couldn't have done the Rotherham child abuse | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
scandal. What they all come it is a full reading of section 40 because | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
that cost shifting will only apply if, and I quote, it is just and | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
equitable in all the circumstances. I cannot conceive of any High Court | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
judge, for example the Lance Armstrong case or the child abuse, | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
saying it is just as equitable in all circumstances the newspaper | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
should pay these costs. Even the editor of index on censorship, which | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
is hardly the Sun, said this would be oppressive and they couldn't do | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
what they do, they would risk being sued by warlords. No because if | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
something unfortunate, some really bad person sues them, what would | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
happen is the judge would say it is just inequitable normal | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
circumstances that person should pay. Section 40 is for the person | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
that comes along and says to a big newspaper, can we go to arbitration | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
because I cannot afford to go to court. The big newspaper says no. | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
That leaves less than 1% of the population with any remedy if the | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
newspapers traduce them. It cannot be right. From the Guardian to the | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
Sun, and including Index On Censorship, all of these media | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
outlets think you are proposing a charter for conmen, warlords, crime | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
bosses, dodgy politicians, celebrities with a grievance against | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
the press. I will give you the final word to address that. It is pure | :28:28. | :28:35. | |
guff and the reason is they want to go on marking their own homework. | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
The press don't want anyone to make sure life is fair. All I want is | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
somebody who has got no money to be able to sue in just the way that I | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
can. All right, thanks for being with us. | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
The doctors' union, the British Medical Association, | :28:54. | :28:54. | |
has said the Government is scapegoating GPs in England | :28:55. | :28:56. | |
The Government has said GP surgeries must try harder to stay | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
open from 8am to 8pm, or they could lose out on funding. | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
The pressure on A services in recent weeks has been intense. | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
It emerged this week that 65 of the 152 Health Trusts in England | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
had issued an operational pressure alert in the first | :29:10. | :29:11. | |
At either level three, meaning major pressures, | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
or level four, indicating an inability to deliver | :29:19. | :29:20. | |
On Monday, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt told the Commons | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
that the number of people using A had increased by 9 million | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
But that 30% of those visits were unnecessary. | :29:30. | :29:36. | |
He said that the situation at a number of Trusts | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
On Tuesday, the Royal College of Physicians wrote | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
to the Prime Minister saying the health service was being | :29:45. | :29:46. | |
paralysed by spiralling demand, and urging greater investment. | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
On Wednesday, the Chief Executive of NHS England, Simon Stevens, | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
told a Select Committee that NHS funding will be highly constrained. | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
And from 2018, real-terms spending per person would fall. | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
The Prime Minister described the Red Cross's claim that A | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
was facing a "humanitarian crisis" as "irresponsible and overblown". | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
And the National Audit Office issued a report that found almost half, | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
46%, of GP surgeries closed at some point during core hours. | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
Yesterday, Mrs May signalled her support for doctors' surgeries | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
opening from 8am to 8pm every day of the week, in order to divert | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
To discuss this, I'm joined now by the Conservative | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
MP Maria Caulfield - she was an NHS nurse in a former | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
life - and Clare Gerada, a former chair of the Royal College | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
Welcome to you both. So, Maria Caulfield, what the Government is | :30:44. | :30:53. | |
saying, Downing Street in effect is saying that GPs do not work hard | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
enough and that's the reason why A was under such pressure? No, I don't | :30:59. | :31:01. | |
think that is the message, I think that is the message that the media | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
have taken up. That is not the expression that we want to give. I | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
still work as a nurse, I know how hard doctors work in hospitals and | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
GP practices. When the rose 30% of people turning up at A for neither | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
an accident or an emergency, we do need to look at alternative. Where | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
is the GPs' operability in this? We know from patients that if they | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
cannot get access to GPs, they will do one of three things. They will | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
wait two or three weeks until they can get an appointment, they will | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
forget about the problem altogether, which is not good, we want patients | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
to be getting investigations at early stages, or they will go to | :31:39. | :31:48. | |
A And that is a problem. I'm not quite sure what the role that GPs | :31:49. | :31:50. | |
play in this. What is your response in that? I think about 70% of | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
patients that I see should not be seen by me but should still be seen | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
by hospital consultants. If we look at it from GPs' eyes and not from | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
hospital's eyes, because that is what it is, we might get somewhere. | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
Tomorrow morning, every practice in England will have about 1.5 GPs | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
shot, that's not even counting if there is traffic problems, sickness | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
or whatever. -- GPs shot. We cannot work any harder, I cannot | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
physically, emotionally work any harder. We are open 12 hours a day, | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
most of us, I run practices open 365 days per year 24 hours a day. I | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
don't understand this. It is one thing attacking me as a GP from | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
working hard enough, but it is another thing saying that GPs as a | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
profession and doing what they should be doing. Let me in National | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
Audit Office has coming up with these figures showing that almost | :32:43. | :32:50. | |
half of doctors' practices are not open during core hours at some part | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
of the week. That's where the implication comes, that they are not | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
working hard enough. What do you say to that? I don't recognise this. I'm | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
not being defensive, I'm just don't recognise it. There are practices | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
working palliative care services, practices have to close home visits | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
if they are single-handed, some of us are working in care homes during | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
the day. They may shot for an hour in the middle of the data will sort | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
out some of the prescriptions and admin -- they may shot. My practice | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
runs a number of practices across London. If we shut during our | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
contractual hours we would have NHS England coming down on us like a | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
tonne of bricks. Maria Caulfield, I'm struggling to understand, given | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
the problems the NHS faces, particularly in our hospitals, what | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
this has got to do with the solution? Obviously there are GP | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
practices that are working, you know, over and above the hours. But | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
there are some GP practices, we know from National Audit Office, there | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
are particular black sports -- blackspots in the country that only | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
offer services for three hours a week. That's causing problems if | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
they cannot get to see a GP they will go and use A Nobody is | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
saying that this measure would solve problems at A, it would address | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
one small part of its top blog we shouldn't be starting this, as I | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
keep saying, please to this from solving the problems at A We | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
should be starting it from solving the problems of the patients in | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
their totality, the best place they should go, not from A This really | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
upsets me, as a GP I am there to be a proxy A doctor. I am a GP, a | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
highly skilled doctor, looking after patients from cradle to grave across | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
the physical, psychological and social, I am not an A doctor. I | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
don't disagree with that, nobody is saying that GPs are not working hard | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
enough. You just did, actually, about some of them. In some | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
practices, what we need to see, it's not just GPs in GP surgeries, it is | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
advanced nurse practitioners, pharmacists. It doesn't necessarily | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
need to be all on the GPs. I think advanced nurse practitioners are in | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
short supply. Position associate or go to hospital, -- physician | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
associates. We have very few trainees, junior doctors in general | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
practice, unlike hospitals, which tend to have some slack with the | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
junior doctor community and workforce. This isn't an argument, | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
this is about saying, let's stop looking at the National health | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
system as a National hospital system. GPs tomorrow will see about | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
1.3 million patients. That is a lot of thoughtful. A lot of activity | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
with no resources. If you wanted the GPs to behave better, in your terms, | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
when you allocated more money to GPs, part of the reforms, because | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
that's where it went, shouldn't you have targeted it more closely to | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
where they want to operate? That is exactly what the Prime Minister is | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
saying, extra funding is being made available by GPs to extend hours and | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
services. If certain GP practices cannot do that, the money will | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
follow the patient to where they move onto. We have no doctors to do | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
it. I was on a coach last week, the coach driver stopped in the service | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
station for an hour, they were stopping for a rest. We cannot do | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
it. Even if you gave us millions more money, and thankfully NHS is | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
recognising that we need a solution through the five-day week, we | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
haven't got the doctors to deliver this. It would take a while to get | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
them? That's my point, that's why we need to be using all how care | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
professional. Even if you got this right, would it make a difference to | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
what many regard as the crisis in our hospitals? I think it would. If | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
you look at patients, they just want to go to a service that will address | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
the problems. In Scotland for example, pharmacists have their own | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
patient list. Patients go and see the pharmacists first. There are | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
lots of conditions, for example if you want anticoagulants, you don't | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
necessarily need to see a doctor, a pharmacist can manage that and free | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
up the doctor in other ways. The Prime Minister has said that if | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
things do not change she is threatening to reduce funding to | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
doctors who do not comply. Can you both agree, that is probably an | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
empty threat, that's not going to happen? I hope it's an empty threat. | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
We're trying our best. People like me in my profession, the seniors in | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
our profession, are really trying to pull up morale and get people into | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
general practice, which is a wonderful profession, absolutely | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
wonderful place to be. But slapping us off and telling us that we are | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
lazy really doesn't help. I really don't think anybody is doing that. | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
We have run out of time, but I'm certain that we will be back to the | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
subject before this winter is out. It's just gone 11:35am, | :37:32. | :37:33. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :37:34. | :37:35. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
minutes: The Week Ahead. Now, if anyone thought Donald Trump | :37:39. | :00:43. | |
would tone things down after the American election | :00:44. | :00:51. | |
campaign, they may have The period where he has been | :00:52. | :01:01. | |
President-elect will make them think again. The inauguration is coming up | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
on Friday. Never has the forthcoming | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
inauguration of a president been In a moment, we'll talk | :01:08. | :01:08. | |
to a man who knows Mr Trump But first, let's have a look | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
at the press conference Mr Trump gave on Wednesday, | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
in which he took the opportunity to rubbish reports that Russia has | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
obtained compromising information You are attacking our | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
news organisation. Can you give us a chance, | :01:22. | :01:37. | |
you are attacking our news organisation, can you give us | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
a chance to ask a question, sir? As far as Buzzfeed, | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
which is a failing pile of garbage, writing it, I think they're | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
going to suffer the consequences. Does anyone really | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
believe that story? I'm also very much of | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
a germaphobe, by the way. If Putin likes Donald Trump, | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
guess what, folks, that's called The only ones that care about my tax | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
returns are the reporters, OK? Do you not think the American | :02:04. | :02:10. | |
public is concerned? The Wiggo, Donald Trump at his first | :02:11. | :02:25. | |
last conference. The Can will he change as President? Because he | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
hasn't changed in the run-up to being inaugurated? I don't think he | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
will commit he doesn't see any point in changing. Why would he change | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
from the personality that just one, as he just said, I just one. All of | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
the bleeding-heart liberals can wail and brush their teeth and say how | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
ghastly that all this, Hillary should have won and so on, but he | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
has got an incredible mandate. Remember, Trump has the House | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
committee has the Senate, he will have the Supreme Court. He has | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
incredible power right now. He doesn't have to listen to anybody. I | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
spoke to him a couple of weeks ago specifically about Twitter, I asked | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
him what the impact was of Twitter. He said, I have 60 million people | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
following me on Twitter. I was able to bypass mainstream media, bypass | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
all modern political convention and talk directly to potential voters. | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
Secondly, I can turn on the TV in the morning, I can see a rival | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
getting all of the airtime, and I can fire off a tweet, for free, as a | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
marketing man he loves that, and, boom, I'm on the news agenda again. | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
He was able to use that magnificently. Twitter to him didn't | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
cost him a dollar. He is going to carry on tweeting in the last six | :03:33. | :03:43. | |
weeks, he was not sleeping. Trump has never had an alcoholic drink a | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
cigarette or a drug. He is a fit by the 70, he has incredible energy and | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
he is incredibly competitive. At his heart, he is a businessman. If you | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
look at him as a political ideologue, you completely missed the | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
point of trouble. Don't take what he says literally, look upon it as a | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
negotiating point that he started from, and try to do business with | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
him as a business person would, and you may be presently surprised so | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
pleasantly surprised. He treats the press and the media entirely | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
differently to any other politician or main politician in that normally | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
the politicians try to get the media off a particular subject, or they | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
try to conciliate with the media. He just comes and punches the media in | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
the nose when he doesn't like them. This could catch on, you know! You | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
are absolutely right, for a start, nobody could accuse him of letting | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
that victory go to his head. You know, he won't say, I will now be | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
this lofty president. He's exactly the same as he was before. What is | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
fascinating is his Laois and ship with the media. I haven't met, and | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
I'm sure you haven't, met a party leader who is obsessed with the | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
media. But they pretend not to be. You know, they state, oh, somebody | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
told me about a column, I didn't read it. He is utterly transparent | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
in his obsession with the media, he doesn't pretend. How that plays out, | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
who knows? It's a completely different dynamic than anyone has | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
seen by. Like he is the issue, he has appointed an unusual Cabinet, | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
that you could criticise in many ways. Nearly all of them are | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
independent people in their own right. A lot of them are wealthy, | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
too. They have their own views. They might not like what he tweaked at | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
3am, and he does have to deal with his Cabinet now. Mad dog matters, | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
now the Defence Secretary, he might not like what's said about China at | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
three in morning - general matters. This is what gets very conjugated. | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
We cannot imagine here in our political system any kind of | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
appointments like this. Using the wouldn't have a line-up of | :05:55. | :05:56. | |
billionaires of the kind of background that he has chosen -- you | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
simply wouldn't have. But that won't stop him saying and reading what he | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
thinks. Maybe it will cause him some internal issues when the following | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
day he has the square rigged with whatever they think. But he's going | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
to press ahead. Are we any clearer in terms of policy. I know policy | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
hasn't featured hugely in this campaign of 2016. Do we have any | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
really clear idea what Mr Trump is hoping to achieve? He has had some | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
consistent theme going back over 25 years. One is a deep scepticism | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
about international trade and the kind of deals that America has been | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
doing over that period. It has been so consistent that is has been hard | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
to spin as something that you say during the course of a campaign of | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
something to get elected. Ultimately, Piers is correct, he | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
won't change. When he won the election committee gave a relatively | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
magnanimous beach. I thought his ego had been sated and he had got what | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
he wanted. He will end up governing as is likely eccentric New York | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
liberal and everything will be fine. In the recent weeks it has come to | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
my attention that that might not be entirely true! | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
LAUGHTER It is a real test of the American | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
system, the Texan bouncers, the foreign policy establishment which | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
is about to have the orthodoxies disrupted -- the checks and | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
balances. I think he has completely ripped up the American political | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
system. Washington as we know it is dead. From his garage do things his | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
way, he doesn't care, frankly, what any of us thinks -- Trump is going | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
to do things his way. If he can deliver for the people who voted for | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
him who fault this disenfranchised, -- who voted for him who felt this | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
disenfranchised. They voted accordingly. They want to see jobs | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
and the economy in good shape, they want to feel secure. They want to | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
feel that immigration has been tightened. If Trump can deliver on | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
those main theme for the rust belt communities of America, I'm telling | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
you, he will go down as a very successful president. All of the | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
offensive rhetoric and the argy-bargy with CNN and whatever it | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
may be will be completely irrelevant. Let me finish with a | :08:07. | :08:14. | |
parochial question. Is it fair to say quite well disposed to this | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
country? And that he would like, that he's up for a speedy | :08:18. | :08:19. | |
free-trade, bilateral free-trade you'll? Think we have to be sensible | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
as the country. Come Friday, he is the president of the United States, | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
the most powerful man and well. He said to me that he feels half | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
British, his mum was born and raised in Scotland until the age of 18, he | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
loves British, his mother used to love watching the Queen, he feels | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
very, you know, I would roll out the red carpet for Trump, let him eat | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
Her Majesty. The crucial point for us as a country is coming -- let him | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
me to Her Majesty. If we can do a speedy deal within an 18 month | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
period, it really sends a message that well but we are back in the | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
game, that is a hugely beneficial thing for this country. Well, a man | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
whose advisers were indicating that maybe he should learn a few things | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
from Donald Trump was Jeremy Corbyn. Yes, MBE. Mr Corbyn appeared on the | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
Andrew Marr Show this morning. -- yes, indeed. | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
If you don't win Copeland, and if you don't win | :09:18. | :09:19. | |
Stoke-on-Trent Central, you're toast, aren't you? | :09:20. | :09:21. | |
Our party is going to fight very hard in those elections, | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
as we are in the local elections, to put those policies out there. | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
It's an opportunity to challenge the Government on the NHS. | :09:30. | :09:31. | |
It's an opportunity to challenge them on the chaos of Brexit. | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
It's an opportunity to challenge them on the housing shortage. | :09:35. | :09:36. | |
It's an opportunity to challenge them on zero-hours contracts. | :09:37. | :09:38. | |
Is there ever a moment that you look in the mirror and think, | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
you know what, I've done my best, but this might not be for me? | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
I look in the mirror every day and I think, | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
let's go out there and try and create a society where there | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
are opportunities for all, where there aren't these terrible | :09:53. | :09:54. | |
levels of poverty, where there isn't homelessness, | :09:55. | :09:55. | |
where there are houses for all, and where young people aren't | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
frightened of going to university because of the debts | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
they are going to end up with at the end of their course. | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
Mr Corbyn earlier this morning. Steve, would it be fair to say that | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
the mainstream of the Labour Party has now come to the conclusion that | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
they just have to let Mr Corbyn get on with it, that they are not going | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
to try and influence what he does. They will continue to try and have | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
their own views, but it's his show, it's up to him, if it's a mess, he | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
has to live with it and we'll have clean hands? For now, yes. I think | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
they made a mistake when he was first elected to start in some cases | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
tweeting within seconds that it was going to be a disaster, this was | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
Labour MPs. They made a complete mess of that attempted coup in the | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
summer, which strengthened his position. And he did, it gave Corbyn | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
the space with total legitimacy to say that part of the problem is, | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
we're having this public Civil War. In keeping quiet, that disappeared | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
as part of the explanation for why Labour and low in the polls. I think | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
they are partly doing that. But they are also struggling, the so-called | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
mainstream Labour MPs, to decide what the distinctive agenda is. It's | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
one of the many differences with the 80s, where you had a group of people | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
sure of what they believed in, they left to form the SDP. What's | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
happening now is that they are leaving politics altogether. That is | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
a crisis of social Democrats all across Europe, including the French | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
Socialists, as we will find out later in the spring. Let Corbyn | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
because then, that's the strategy. There is a weary and sometimes | :11:35. | :11:36. | |
literal resignation from the moderates in the Labour Party. If | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
you talk to them, they are no longer angry, they have always run out of | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
steam to be angry about what's going on. They are just sort of tired and | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
feel that they've just got to see this through now. I think the | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
by-elections will be interesting. When Andrew Marr said, you're toast, | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
and you? I thought, he's never posed! That was right. A quick | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
thought from view? One thing Corbyn has in common with Trump is immunity | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
to bad news. I think he can lose Copeland and lose Stoke, and as long | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
as it is not a sequence of resignations and by-elections | :12:11. | :12:12. | |
afterwards, with maybe a dozen or 20 Labour MPs going, he can still enjoy | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
what. It may be more trouble if Labour loses the United trade union | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
elections. We are in a period of incredible unpredictability | :12:23. | :12:24. | |
generally in global politics. If you look at the way the next year plays | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
out, if for example brags it was a disaster and it starts to unravel | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
very quickly, Theresa May is attached to that, clearly label | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
would have a great opportunity potentially disease that higher | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
ground, and when Eddie the Tories -- Labour would have an opportunity. Is | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
Corbyn the right guy? We interviewed him, what struck me was that he | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
talked about being from, a laughable comparison, but when it is really | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
laughable is this - Hillary Clinton, what were the things she stood for, | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
nobody really knew? What does Trump stand for? Everybody knew. Corbyn | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
has the work-out four or five messages and bang, bang, bang. He | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
could still be in business. Thank you for being with us. | :13:07. | :13:07. | |
I'll be back at the same time next weekend. | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:12. | :13:13. |