Browse content similar to 29/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports. | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
The President says "it's working out very nicely" | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
After getting too close to comfort for some to the US President, | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
Theresa May refuses to condemn his refugee ban despite being asked | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
about it three times at a press conference. | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
Should she have spoken out more strongly? | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan, | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze | :01:38. | :01:39. | |
and why it doesn't apply to everybody. | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
And with me, the best and brightest political | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq, | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
where refugees are banned from until further notice. | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days. | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
But the ban has sparked protests across the US, | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
as people affected and already in the air were detained | :02:28. | :02:29. | |
US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
about the refugee ban three times before giving this response... | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
Well, the United States is responsible for the United States' | :02:45. | :02:46. | |
The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country. | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
Downing Street later issued a statement saying: | :02:59. | :03:12. | |
This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
She wants to see the evidence, she wants | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
to understand precisely what the implications are. | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
understand it, and then will respond to that. | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
I think there are times where, you know, there's always | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on. | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
We're joined now from North London by the Conservative | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more | :03:55. | :04:06. | |
vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David | :04:07. | :04:15. | |
just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing, | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you | :05:26. | :05:33. | |
like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens. | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
It can't be right that a president in that position of power can | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis? | :06:50. | :07:02. | |
I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs, | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit, | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the | :08:12. | :08:13. | |
protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
right place. Thank you for joining us. | :08:44. | :08:53. | |
Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages, | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right. | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and | :09:30. | :09:37. | |
can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case. | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president, | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis. | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with | :11:07. | :11:14. | |
Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal | :11:27. | :11:29. | |
thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It | :11:30. | :11:39. | |
is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely. | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London. | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless | :13:06. | :13:07. | |
communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky | :13:47. | :13:48. | |
situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit | :13:53. | :13:54. | |
was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister, | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
keen for a new trading relationship with the United States | :13:58. | :13:59. | |
in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
the new US President for his "stunning election victory" | :14:03. | :14:04. | |
but might not have intended to be pictured walking | :14:05. | :14:06. | |
through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping | :14:07. | :14:08. | |
Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister | :14:16. | :14:24. | |
said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
increased their defence spending It's been announced | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement, | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead | :14:38. | :14:38. | |
to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
to Donald Trump her continued | :14:52. | :14:53. | |
backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer | :15:00. | :15:01. | |
to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's | :15:08. | :15:23. | |
decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere, | :16:04. | :16:10. | |
look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in. | :16:57. | :17:04. | |
He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any | :17:21. | :17:30. | |
terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
America, they then go through biometric screening, database | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence | :18:15. | :18:25. | |
agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again, | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
world have not been included in this. The point is they have made | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We | :19:59. | :20:05. | |
will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good | :21:47. | :21:54. | |
as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying | :22:12. | :22:13. | |
things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have | :22:14. | :22:21. | |
a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress | :22:39. | :22:40. | |
and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus. | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out, | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal, | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things. | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve, | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum, | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to | :24:44. | :24:50. | |
fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes. | :24:51. | :24:59. | |
If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election, | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
being with us. It's just gone 11.25, | :25:26. | :25:26. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :25:27. | :25:28. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
be talking to our political panel. Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll | :25:32. | :40:35. | |
air-pollution. Thank you for being here. | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
Welcome back and let's get back to Donald Trump's travel ban | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
on refugees and citizens from seven mainly Muslim countries. | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
Earlier, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
visit by President Trump to the UK should not go ahead | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
I think it would be totally wrong for him to be coming here while that | :40:57. | :41:09. | |
situation is going on. He has to be challenged on this. So until the ban | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
is lifted, you don't think he should come? I am not happy about him | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
coming here until the ban is lifted. Look at what is happening with those | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
countries. What will be the long term effect of this on the rest of | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
the world? Is this state visit going to become a matter of huge political | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
debate in this country? It would be anyway, but it is a temporary ban, | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe territory. It will be over by April | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
and he is not due to come until summer. But there are three bands. | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
There is the 90 day ban on people coming from the southern countries. | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
There is the 120 day ban on refugees from anywhere in the world, and | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
there is the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees. So there may still | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
be some bans in place. But bear in mind the number of Syrian refugees | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
and refugees from around the world that President Obama took over his | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
eight years. There were years when it was not even up to 50 Syrian | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
refugees that were taken since the civil war has started. This is an | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
ongoing American policy. 12,500 Syrian refugees have come in the | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
last year. Before that, it was a hundred and sometimes under 50. But | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
they are reasonable numbers now, although not something America | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is discovering that being a president | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
is different from being a business man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
the art of leadership, having been a backbench MP, and has struggled to | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
do it, as we are about to discuss with article 50. With this, you have | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
to dramatise the politics of this, and this is what he has done with | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
that statement. Most controversial ever state visit now? I would | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
imagine so. Even regardless of any opposition from the opposition to | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
trump's physical presence in the streets, the presence of | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
demonstrators will be an international new story. If trump's | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
demands for the details of the visit are quite as extreme and as picky as | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
some of the Sunday papers have suggested, that could also be the | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
source of controversy. What do you have in mind? Isn't he anxious that | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
only certain members of the Royal Family turn up? He doesn't want a | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who would, though! Some people may be | :43:34. | :43:42. | |
sympathetic on that. It is the one subject where he is in line with | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
British opinion. Playing golf in front of the Queen may be a higher | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
priority. We have to be realistic. Given the other people from around | :43:52. | :43:53. | |
the world that the Queen has played host to, like the Chinese president | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
and Saudi kings and the like, we have had a lot worse come to visit | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
than Donald Trump. Brexit - how serious our neighbour's problems on | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
this? Very serious, but they often are with Europe. Labour were splits | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
when we joined in the 70s, and still won general elections, in 1974 and | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
1975. There were all over the place in terms of the single currency. | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
Blair said one thing one day and the opposite the next day. Brown did the | :44:22. | :44:22. | |
same. Brown usually set the opposite of | :44:23. | :44:36. | |
what Blair said! They won landslide because they have the political | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
skills to put all of the pressure on the major government, even though | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
their position on the single currency was the same as major's. It | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
is about with Europe the art of leadership. You have to be a | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
political conjuror, you have to dissemble authoritative leak when | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
you lead a divided party over Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
personal credit cannot dissemble, but he's not an individual person on | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
this. He's leading a split party in danger of falling apart, and you | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
need the skills of a political conjurer. Clearly self-evidently | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
he's not displaying it because we are talking about the chaotic split | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
which will manifest itself in that vote on Article 50. Labour and the | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
SNP and the Lib Dems too I would have thought will all put amendments | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
down to the short Article 50 piece of legislation. Do they have any | :45:29. | :45:35. | |
chance of succeeding? No substantial world is changing amendments. I | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
don't think Theresa May has much to worry about actually. I think if | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
anything the reason she's pushed the legal appeal is that it helps her to | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
have a big chunk of the media and a big chunk of public opinion worrying | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
that the popular will of last year is in danger of being overturned and | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
so even if it was a completely hopeless legal appeal, it generated | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
headlines for a week that as an incumbent Prime Minister trying to | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
execute believe vote suits you politically. I think it is a much | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
bigger problem for Labour, we've already seen some Shadow Cabinet | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
issues in the previous week. You have got to remember it's not just a | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
majority of Labour MPs that want to stay in the European Union, but a | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
majority of Labour constituencies, and a majority of labour macro | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
voters wanted to stay as well so we have three lines of division. One | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
amendment that might get through if it was called, and it is in the | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
hands of the Deputy speaker who will be chairing these debates, and that | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
will be an amendment that said regardless of how the Europeans | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
treat our citizens in Europe, all EU citizens here will be afforded full | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
rights to remain. That might get through. It may indeed and lots of | :46:50. | :46:57. | |
backbench MPs would backpack. We all know there will not be mass | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
deportations, it is not legal, it won't happen, it is simply a | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
negotiating tactic. I agree with those who say you shouldn't be using | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
people as a negotiating tactic, but the reality as it is the EU leaders | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
that are doing that because it's already been offered. The remain as | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
should be attacking the EU governments for not offering that in | :47:20. | :47:25. | |
return. Article 50 is the easy bit for her. I agree with other members | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
of the panel that she will get it through and the court case almost | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
helps her by getting an easy journey through Parliament, then it gets | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
really difficult. All of this has been a preamble and once she begins | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
that nightmarish negotiation, there will be opportunities for a smart | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
opposition to make quite a lot of the turmoil to come. Whether Labour | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
are capable of that, let's wait and see. The divisions in Labour are | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
nightmarish for them but by no means unprecedented. Arguably it was much | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
more complicated in the early 1970s when you had Titans on either side, | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony Benn... Michael Foot, they were all | :48:10. | :48:17. | |
at it. The fundamental issue of in or out, and they won two elections, | :48:18. | :48:23. | |
so you have got to be really clever. But also how money more Labour MPs | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
will resign. We shall find out this week. | :48:29. | :48:30. | |
The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday and all | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
I'll be back here on BBC one next week. | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :48:38. | :48:43. |