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Meanwhile, the soldiers are gearing up for what will surely we are | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
brutal climax to the battle for Mosul. | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
Talking Business. Moving your business into new markets can be a | :00:00. | :00:22. | |
very tricky affair stop in Talking Business, we will be taking a look | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
at what is involved in taking your brand global. | :00:26. | :00:47. | |
Welcome to Talking Business. Taking a business and Rand global is really | :00:48. | :00:56. | |
quite an operation, it takes much more than just a fancy website and | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
glitzy advertising campaign all those both of those might be quite a | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
good start. It is also understanding how your brand translates in other | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
countries and finding the right partnership and distributors. How do | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
you market and export to new regions? What does it take to take | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
your business globally? Here to discuss this are three experts. The | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
chairwoman of media, UK, the largest media agency. The founder of | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
innocent drinks in May 1999 and now home finder of jamjar and the | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
founder of ethical low which produces Mediterranean and baby | :01:42. | :01:52. | |
food. --F Piccolo. When you are looking off taking it somewhere, how | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
do you pick the elements of that are part and said we are going to work | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
out which bits work? Our company is found on a diet known around the | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
world so we have had a lot of inbound interest when we launched in | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
the UK. In terms of distributors and retailers saying we would love to | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
have you. We think it is understood by the Public here. It is also | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
looking at what other players are in the market and do our existing | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
partners in the UK already have a relationship with that market. | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
Thinking in terms of the brand, your brand had a specific profile. It | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
seemed that way. How did you break that down into chunks so you could | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
look at it. When it is about something that tastes good and looks | :02:49. | :02:56. | |
good, we were responsible in conducting the business in things | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
that were universal. Whichever market, this is what people would | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
want these days. It was the subtleties of lending it correctly. | :03:09. | :03:16. | |
How would you say, the Wrexham will is of brands that have me stepped | :03:17. | :03:25. | |
first Mac now, more so than ever, what is essential of any brand | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
launching globally or in one market is about brand having purpose. So | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
the wide. We have audiences and who can pick and choose based on price, | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
accessibility, availability and purpose is really important. And it | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
is not high your purpose in terms of solving the problems of humanity but | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
what they can give back to the consumers. You think that has to be | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
a social purpose? A back story? I absolutely do. More so than ever, in | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
the current climate, brands really need to try and look at how they are | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
going to do something for the consumer. We are in value exchange | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
of consumers and is really, really important. When you took Innonce to | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
other markets, whether elements of missing? People saying this is not | :04:21. | :04:28. | |
enough? There were different aspects. The hardest thing was part | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
of the brand was its openness and the way we communicated with people | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
who bought the product. I think our biggest challenge was getting that | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
device in each market engaging on our terms and consistent with the | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
way we started the business. Did you have problems of people saying in | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
this part of the world are people do not like strawberries or we like our | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
strawberries to come from here? There was a sense that people wanted | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
the recipes to reflect that national tastes. In Scandinavia if we had a | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
berry recipe, it had to have blueberries. One of the things that | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
happened with Innonce, it grew organically in each market and each | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
country adopted at as they are in with a taste reflect that in it. | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
That is an interesting aspect. Each country wanting to put their imprint | :05:32. | :05:43. | |
on it. Because Piccolo is sourcing from the Mediterranean and it is | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
what they want, they are looking for that kind of back story, that kind | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
of sourcing, where we were buying the raw materials, they were | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
interested in having that tomatoes from Italy. It is part of the reason | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
why other markets are approaching us. Do you think there are cases | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
where by people did not necessarily recognised the Mediterranean diet is | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
the Alexa that we see it as? So far, we are a one-year-old company, we | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
have had very positive response. We are already exporting into China and | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
progress into the US next year. In terms of a large market, we have had | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
a positive response. I am sure there will be a few markets... For example | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
sub Saharan Africa were used to work in, may not know the diet as much. I | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
spelt ten years of my life in the United Nations in food, I feel I | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
have a sense of which markets are right for Piccolo. You may go into a | :06:52. | :06:59. | |
market where you may have to bolt something more on to accommodate | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
cultural identity or cultural sensitivities - can you think of | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
cases where that has happened? When brands look to expand into other | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
markets, they roll out on a geographical pattern... A regional | :07:17. | :07:25. | |
basis. I do believe that geography actually isn't the court deciding | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
factor of where to roll out to next. The cultural nuances are really key | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
and important and it would not necessarily be a country next to | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
each other that would be the same. For example, we work with Halsted | :07:41. | :07:48. | |
which is a cultural institution and we looked a cultural differences in | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
terms of marketing and targeting consumers. You find there are some | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
markets where they tend to avoid risks. New product launches would be | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
difficult. Those markets tend to be markets which are steeped in | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
tradition. Market that respect high raki is. They preferred to gravitate | :08:11. | :08:19. | |
towards market leader. -- hierarchy. An example would be Russia or Israel | :08:20. | :08:27. | |
or Japan, tend to be markets culturally it would be risk | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
avoiders. If you were launching a brand into that market, rather than | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
taking an approach that one size fits all, in those markets which | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
showed cultural similarities that are risk avoidance you need a | :08:40. | :08:48. | |
tactic. Natural fruit smoothies would not present a risk to anybody | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
but some people may not see it that way. Once we squeezed the freeze | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
into the bottle, we were geographically limited. Because of | :08:58. | :09:06. | |
the shelf life. We were physically constrained. We can get it across | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
the Channel and into northern Europe and that is about as far as we can | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
go. Our first market was France. What about this idea of risk which | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
car and has talked about. What we saw is all markets tend to move in | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
the same direction but there are different times in that journey so | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
it was about getting the timing of right in different markets. On March | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
more rapid acceptance in Scandinavia than the Germanic countries. | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
Scandinavia was already into smoothies. In Germany everything was | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
long shelf life so we had to change the distribution system and the view | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
of what fruit juice could be. This is counterintuitive, if you saw | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
something on the shelf that was very similar to your product you can | :10:00. | :10:07. | |
think that is already done but not so. If the format is there and the | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
customer has experience of going into the retail and finding that | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
type of Ruddock, it is definitely a bit easier than bringing an entire | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
new concept in the sense of changing the juice market. With Piccolo | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
people know where to find baby food, they are not lost. When we take it | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
as a new brand into a new market, we are also navigating by part of the | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
supermarket they can find us and if they are looking for baby foods they | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
know where to go. More from our guests later when we talk about | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
establishing key partnerships. First an example of a company making the | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
journey we have been talking about, after losing their parents in the | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
Asian tsunami of 2004, brothers Rob and Paul wanted to create subtly | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
innovative and unique driven by their personal passion after such a | :11:02. | :11:10. | |
tragic loss. The result was Gandys. How to spot an opportunity. It was | :11:11. | :11:19. | |
inspired by travel and filled by giving back, after spending many | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
years kind of volunteering in India and travelling around South East | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
Asia, we wanted to create a brand that would reflect that upbringing | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
and would give people hope in our product. Because it has such an | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
unusual story in terms of ourselves at losing our parents and wanting to | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
build a children's home, at the there are people with quite a bit of | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
admiration about what we do and people intrigued by the brand and | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
story. Sometimes it is better to make sure you have it right in your | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
backyard, the formula and ingredients, before going anywhere. | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
At the start, people lock in your door and that will say we will come | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
back to you in two years time so, without realising we were quite | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
young and naive, you start dealing with countries and it takes up more | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
time than the bigger markets. What we learnt in the last few years, | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
more than often those people knocking on your door in fact it was | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
not an opportunity but a distraction. What distribution do | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
you have, who are your partners, white retailers and brands do you | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
work with? We got a lot stricter on that and that seemed to help. | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
The biggest mistake's working with you. I would say the same. Everyone | :12:47. | :12:55. | |
makes mistakes. You cannot worry about making the biggest mistake as | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
long as you don't do it again. Don't make the same mistake twice, good | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
advice. Everyone is still with me. What do we mean by partners when we | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
talk about going into a new market? You are already nodding, Kat. What | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
partners do you need? On the marketing side, if you have a lot of | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
international markets, you need a partner with international footfall. | :13:20. | :13:37. | |
We partner with WaterBabies, a swim school, the largest in the UK. Even | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
though they aren't related? Yes. It has been fantastic. When moms and | :13:41. | :13:49. | |
dads go to babyschool, they get a pouch from Piccolo. It also spreads | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
by word-of-mouth. And WaterBabies is also in China so we got there to. So | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
if they trust them in the water, they might trust you with the brand. | :14:00. | :14:08. | |
Yes. We also went with the UK's largest baby charity. They hear | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
about us through the NCT, which they trust. The NCT is a British charity. | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
I am looking at a similar model with an American counterpart. You. When | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
we talk about partners, what kind of partners do we need and what | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
function do they perform? One of the core things is getting distribution | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
to expand into another market. Distribution is king. It does not | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
have to be just physical bricks and mortar any more so it can be | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
digital, it can be e-commerce. Think of an example, JD.com, China's | :14:46. | :14:55. | |
second largest e-commerce site. Their growth was connected to a | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
partnership they made with the biggest Internet service provider | :15:00. | :15:11. | |
who had a messenger service which allowed one click through from the | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
messenger to JD.com. That has been fundamental and a key part of | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
JD.com. 'S growth. That was a key part. Cat indicated that having | :15:22. | :15:29. | |
brand consistency with the person you are trying to work with, but | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
also trust and making sure the customer trust them, is important. | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
Yes. On the continent, when we had to do the physical growth, we had to | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
build a relationship with retailers. And you need to engage consumers who | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
are going to buy it. Which bits are you going to do and what will you | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
hand over to other people? It is very tempting to hope that someone | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
can do it all, because they will probably promise that. But you will | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
find out there interests are slightly different and they will not | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
see the brand in the same way you will and understand its dynamics. | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
Increasingly, we try to partner for physical movement for goods, but we | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
will set up local teams who build relationships with retailers and | :16:16. | :16:29. | |
talk to consumers about the brand. Cat, the brothers from before said | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
time and again, there are plenty of distractors. Yes. We have passed up | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
on some things because it would take too much time for us and out into | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
servers that market. File the interest and say it is not right now | :16:46. | :16:53. | |
because we are focusing on other market. It is about prioritising. It | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
takes so much discipline. You become a hot property and everyone | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
expresses interest in you. To say no to it, we will not explorers, it is | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
a hard decision to make. But it is easy to get drowned and swamped. I | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
am interested in the idea that distribute us do not have interests | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
aligned with yours. That seems counterintuitive. If you hire | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
someone to help you, of course they have to have the same interest. It | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
is not always true. Cat said it very well, you have to share core brand | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
values and purpose. Making sure your brand keeps the correct company is | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
really important when you are establishing a brand. There may be | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
opportunities that allow you to go quick to market, but actually, it | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
could be detrimental because it is not the right company, it is not the | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
right association. They may incentivise the friendly, saying we | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
would like to sell fewer with a higher margin and you may not be | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
able to do that. If the "why" is not aligned, you really should not do | :18:03. | :18:14. | |
it. The centre of the brand, is not just the how and what, the centre is | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
the why, and it needs to be aligned for sustainable long-term growth. | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
What about you? We made them for ourselves, our mistakes. Our first | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
country overseas was France. We started doing it and we went to a | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
trade show and put out a stand and translated everything in the | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
promises of the brand onto banners, 100% fruit, no colourings, no | :18:35. | :18:46. | |
preservatives. We said no presertif, and we could not understand why no | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
one would come over. Because it meant male prophylactics. Yes. We | :18:53. | :19:00. | |
needed people on the ground to translate. I want to talk to you a | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
little bit about cutting losses, Cat. We are seeing, especially for | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
major retailers, headlines coming out of China or India. You can | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
understand because fast-growing legislation may change. There have | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
been instances where you have seen retailers and other brands come out | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
of pretty mature markets, Canada, even the United States. Have you had | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
that experience? What is generally would spark a retreat? I think, | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
especially now, those external conditions that have happened in the | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
past 12- 18 months which are causing a lot of instability. Just within | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
the things we take for granted in terms of the landscape with | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
retailers. Especially with the recent election in the United | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
States, record three was lucky in six months to do a launch with a | :19:53. | :20:04. | |
brand associated with Walmart. Having that parent company with us | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
is very much a positive. You can see how the effect in the US can trickle | :20:08. | :20:16. | |
into the UK. Have you ever had to pull back? You have to decide which | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
country to put the most investment in. We never pull out but we change | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
investment. The companies we invest in, often what causes you to | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
withdraw from a market is you have gone into too many. You have ever | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
expanded, you have been overambitious. You realise you | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
cannot cope with that breadth. So you have the double down on markets | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
that work so be it is often internal operations. When you say you have | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
overextended, can you not just hire more people rather than shutting | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
down the opportunity? More people means more money. Web you'll get | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
that from? How will you promise that? -- Where will you get that. | :20:57. | :21:05. | |
So, over extending, not anticipating competitive. Or is it a change in | :21:06. | :21:13. | |
legislation? It is a number of circumstances, the cost of raw | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
materials, a change in legislation, policy, government change. There are | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
a range of different influences. It could be, also, well, did you really | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
understand the market? Because when you expanded to another market, you | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
absolutely have to understand what is the media landscape, what is the | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
competitive landscape in terms of the competitors, what are the | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
purchase cycles in this market? What is the lifestyle of the consumers in | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
this market? What are the cultural nuances of the market. That is just | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
as important as some of the external factors and can have an influence. | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
Just one final question, John, when you are advising the people, the | :21:56. | :22:04. | |
companies you invest with, JamJar Investments, do you say going global | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
is necessary, or you do you say it is up to you? We were at a meeting | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
yesterday looking at the sides of the UK market and it was in | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
billions. If your home market is in billions, you do not need to start | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
about any where else until you are selling millions. It is the same | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
anywhere else. Some products are a niche but global. Others you can | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
move faster with the Internet. That is it for this edition of Talking | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
Business. Thank you very much to all of our guests. Kat, Cat, and John. | :22:43. | :22:52. | |
Thank you for watching. Goodbye. This is the shape of things to come | :22:53. | :23:06. | |
rather than what we saw for many, at least, during the course | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
of Sunday, which was a decent enough | :23:14. | :23:17. |