12/06/2011 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning and welcome to the week when Margaret Thatcher re-

entered political argument. Sarah Palin, whipping up interest in her

possible presidential campaign, says she hopes to see Lady T when

stopping by in London. Lady Thatcher's office tells the

Guardian that she won't be welcome - that it would belittle her

because Palin is nuts. This British story's reverberated round the

world and caused both great distress and great merriment in the

States and all I can say is, Sarah, if you're coming past, you're

welcome on our sofa any time. There's a lot, too, in the papers

about Labour's brothers at war. Brothers in the old days used to be

slang for trade unions now it means Milibands. They're not with us,

sadly, but we do have couple of people with inside track knowledge

to guide us through the papers. Ann Treneman is the parliamentary

sketch writer for the Times, and Charlie Falconer - Lord Falconer -

was a key member of Tony Blair's cabinet. One man who knows about

the brutal nature of Labour politics is the former Australian

Labour leader and Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. When his colleagues

feared he'd lose the next election they swiftly replaced him with his

deputy Julia Gillard. But Kevin Rudd is back in the front line, as

Australia's Foreign Minister, and he's just arrived in London for the

big conference on vaccination that opens tomorrow. We'll be asking him

about that, Australia's moves to get their troops out of Afghanistan

and much more. The International Development Secretary Andrew

Mitchell's also here today. While few will oppose the huge push to

save the lives of millions of children with vaccinations some are

questioning the scale of British taxpayer's money going to, for

instance India, while its government can apparently afford a

space programme. We also be talking about Syria. This morning we'll

also try and shed light on the great pause. Not a U-turn, you

understand, the great pause over the government's health reform

plans. With Clare Gerada of the Royal College of GPs and the Tory

tipped to take over as Health Secretary if Andrew Lansley goes,

Stephen Dorrell. Also, Britain's greatest playwright brought to life

by one of our great actors. Simon Callow, famed for his many

Hollywood roles, is here to talk about his latest venture, breathing

new life into the mysterious figure of the man who was William

Shakespeare. First, the news with Good morning. The United States

says Syria has created a humanitarian crisis, following

weeks of repression of anti- government protestors. More than

4000 people have fled across the border to refugee camps in Turkey,

and witnesses say more towns have been attacked in the last 24 hours.

The White House is calling for Syria to give the Red Cross access

to areas where the Syrian armed forces have been deployed. Refugees

shelter along Turkey's border with Syria. They carry what they can. A

few meagre possessions and their children. And they bring their

stories. Vivid descriptions of the escalating violence in their towns

and villages. This man has defected from the Syrian army. We were told

to fire on protesters, he said, and anyone who refused was shot in the

back or neck. This is what they are fleeing from. These unverified

pictures appear to show Syrian helicopter gunships firing on their

own people and troops on the streets. The government says they

are fighting armed terrorist groups. But for many Syrians it is simply

time to leave it. Official estimates say that more than 4000

people have already entered Turkey. Many more may have crossed the

poorest border undetected. The White House has accused the Syrian

regime of creating a humanitarian crisis. That was met with

scepticism by one activist in Damascus. The international

community could and take Syria's decision to contain what is going

on on the ground. Its three months now. The thousands of people got

killed. It's too late. Reports have emerged of Syrian tanks attacking

the border towns. As UN agencies in Turkey prepare for their rival, the

fleeing Syrian people are simply hoping to find some respite. At

least 34 people have been killed in two bomb attacks in Pakistan. The

explosions happened minutes apart in a supermarket in the north

western city of Peshawar. Officials say more than 90 other people have

been injured. Police say the first explosion in the busy Khyber market

in Peshawar had been small. But just as bystanders gathered at the

spot and emergency services personnel were a Viking, there was

a second, much larger blast. TRANSLATION: I was passing through

when the blast occurred. We were on the way to the bizarre. As we were

near the square there was suddenly a big blast. When we came back

there was no rescue team or officials. I saw eight dead bodies

lying under the transformer. Four to five bodies were lying here and

at the hotel building. It is just the latest in a series of militant

attacks across the country that have targeted both Pakistan

security forces and civilians. Many believe Islamist groups are taking

revenge for the death of all summer been no to, including the recent

upsurge in American drone attacks and the sense that Pakistan may be

preparing to carry out a limited offensive at least in a notorious

militant stronghold of North Waziristan. Ed Miliband is facing

further criticism this morning with some senior Labour figures

expressing unhappiness over his leadership of the party. The

criticism comes amongst a new paper claims that Ed Miliband is still

feuding with his brother, David, and there is tension between him

and the shadow chancellor, Ed Balls. The drinks retailer Diageo is to

fund a training programme for midwives in England and Wales, on

the dangers of drinking alcohol in pregnancy. The British Medical

Association has expressed concern about the drinks industry funding

such a scheme. The International Monetary Fund says it's

investigating a significant attack on its computer network. The IMF

holds sensitive economic data about many countries. The cyber-attack

has been described as large and sophisticated, and is thought to be

connected to an as-yet unidentified government. That's all the news,

Now to the front pages. There are lots of stories about Labour being

in trouble. That's the Sunday Times. The Sunday Telegraph has a

different story. 102 foreign offenders that cannot be deported.

And also an interview with Chris Patten, the new boss of the BBC's

Trust. Saying we might have to close a channel. The Observer has

Chris Huhne on the front page for the right reasons, as the Energy

Minister condemning price rises. The Mail on Sunday has got a nice

story there. The Queen's cousin has written a memoir with lots of

stories and pictures about the Queen. Lily Allen married at the

weekend. She has told the assembled throng that she is pregnant. As

promised, Ann Treneman and Lord Falconer. Welcome to you both. We

will start with the Miliband brothers. It's an onslaught of

brothers at war. If I were Ed Miliband, I would love to be in

both of their houses this morning watching them reading the papers. I

suspect there are different reactions going on. It's just to

Brothers at war. I have looked for one person who is for Ed Miliband.

In the Independent it says friends of Ed think he's doing well. Who

are his friends because there is no other sign of them here? It is

pretty thin gruel. The Mail on Sunday reporting to see relies so

take extracts from a recent book says, in an attempt to be unkind to

Ed, it observed witheringly that he did not drink or take drugs at

college, but agonised over which chocolate bars to buy. That is an

indication of the extent to which the newspapers are scraping the

bottom of the barrel. There is a herd instinct, this is to show what

an important person Anne is, she started the whole thing on

Wednesday. I'm not to blame for this. We should explain because Ed

Miliband, you said, had a dreadful time at Prime Minister's Questions.

He was appalling. After that, everybody has been piling into him

all week. So you are responsible for it all. If you look at the

newspapers, for example, the reference no news item to big

beasts mauling Ed Miliband. The three of us looked before had to

see what was said on the clothes don't quite back that up. The Mail

on Sunday is expecting the fact that he didn't drink and take drugs,

which has not normally regarded as a matter of complaint. Don't forget

chocolate! You are a big beast, if I can put it that way, Lord

Falconer, but he has had a pretty difficult time. The Labour Party

does not appear to be cutting through very much, the opinion

polls are not great and there are genuine and goblins. -- ramblings.

He's having the sort of difficulty that you always have when you have

a new government. He became leader immediately after we lost an

election. There is a new government that the -- that the media is

interested in. There's the other thing which is that David and Co

are having a relatively hard time. David Cameron. There's only one

Dave in my life. They are having quite a hard time. There is a U-

turn here, explosions going around. It just doesn't seem to be that Ed

can break through that. In a way, because the press, quite rightly,

are interested in what the government are doing in a self

contained way, the opposition only become interesting when there are

these sorts of rows that are described in the press. It's very

interesting that the papers of two bits today. There are lots of

disasters striking government - the health service, letting out rapists

and all that sort of thing. It's hardly mentioned because it's all

about the Milibands. A columnist wrote a good piece this week in

which was said during their William Hague and ideas of years, so many

senior Conservatives had just disappeared and left them looking

rather forlorn. The same was happening now with Ed Miliband.

That a lot of people who were at the top of the Labour Party have

gone off to do other things. There needs to be a balance struck

between the generation whose time has passed going off, that's people

like Tony, Gordon and Alastair. And the good, younger people taking

over. The leadership of the Labour Party at the moment is Ed Miliband,

Ed Balls, Douglas Alexander and others. They are very talented.

People like Tessa Jowell or also bear, so there are people with

experience. But when you look down and see Ed on the front bench, it

does look like he's been abandoned. Anne is a brilliant sketch writer.

I can hear a but. But to judge how the Labour Party is doing on the

basis of the bald pates on the backs of their heads on the front

pages -- frontbenchers isn't a good way to do it. Do you think Ed Balls

is plotting, because he's had an awful lot of stick this week as

well... No, I do not think he is plotting. The Observer says that Mr

Miliband should take a lesson from the Archbishop of Canterbury. I

have this wonderful vision of the Archbishop of Canterbury at the

dispatch box at PMQs. I think that would be great. The Archbishop of

Canterbury is a very wise man, but I don't think he would see himself

as a politician. That's enough Milibands. What have you picked up?

The news of the World says make NHS slick, not sick. It refers to a

pause on the NHS staff, but it also says, we reveal today that waiting

lists for cancer checks have more than trebled in the past year. How

is it that the government is allowing the National Health

Service to decline so dramatically? All of the newspapers are writing

about Ed versus David. And I don't mean David Cameron. I mean David

Miliband. Because they obviously loved the brothers at war. The

pause is quite confusing because no one has seen any pause, people have

been running round like mad. I think we all just want to find

out... Will be talking about this more in the programme, but it is

difficult if you are demolishing a structure to stop halfway through.

All the indications on the ground of that the structure that the

legislation is allowing to take place is already being introduced.

People are saying GPs are coming together in these commissioning

groups, irrespective of the fact that a 300 page bill is not getting

through Parliament and the Prime Minister is promoting the bill and

is looking at it again. I think the problem is nobody understands the

changes. Is there a U-turn? Who knows, because we don't know where

we started from. What we read in the Telegraph is that Nick Clegg is

kind of claiming victory for this. I think he quotes Nick Clegg as

saying, we have one. It looks like political positioning to me rather

than a defined and the standing of what's going on in the health

service reforms. Next from you. I've got a... This is a sad tale.

This is Brian the snail. He's been sacked. You know the man who takes

forever to finish every marathon. I think he just finished the last one

the other day. He's not raising enough money. He says the time has

gone. He's raised 5 million in the past and now it's not there anymore.

This male thing is taking longer. He's taking more money doing it and

he's raising. He does admit defeat Not a lot about Lords reforms in

the papers. And here, another disgraced Lord, �14,000.

government has introduced a truly awful bill for Lords reform which

doesn't deal with the relationship between the Commons and the Lords.

By making it elected, you can only have gridlock with the Commons. I,

like most people, strongly oppose the proposals but I do think some

less ambitious reforms can go through, like ejecting Lords who

commit criminals -- crimes. This government has produced 117 New

Lords. Allowed to sit in the gallery rather than the Lords.

poured cut -- your party talked a lot about Lords reform. Do you

think this big reform will happen finally? I do not. The right thing

is to oppose it, it is not well thought-out but focusing on issues

which the public is not interested in. They want the government to

deal with economy, crime, education. It will bleed energy out of the

political system at a time when you really need good leadership.

think you would say some of that anyway. I just think all of the

papers have a picture of the Duchess of Cambridge on the front.

And, I feel, I feel I have a lifetime of pictures of her looking

lovely. And a picture here of a secret trip to Boots. And a picture

of Prince William. And a little beaver! Saying the Prince has the

same expression! Not getting the best press at the moment. The and

your story? The biggest story is what is going on in that Syria. A

town in the north with 40,000 people is now, according to most

reports, surrounded and completely surrounded by security forces.

Since Friday, the reports coming out of that town is that the Syrian

army is pounding innocent people. Refugees are fleeing to the Turkish

border. One of the good things this government has done is it has

pursued an effective policy under Andrew Mitchell in relation to

international development. I will be interested to hear what he says

later. He has proved himself a leader in the world of

international relations. This Syrian problem is a real tragedy in

the process of happening. Everyone has been saying we should not be

intervening in Libya, but when you do not intervene, this kind of

thing happens. Well, yes, it is impossible not to ask the question.

We are very involved with Libya. This terrible thing, this attack on

the people of Syria. At the moment, we're just reading about it in the

newspapers. The reason with Libya, the world turned against Gaddafi.

And it is turning against Assad. If the world is not clear it in its

message that he must go, he will feel able to do these appalling

things. That is our review of the day when there has been such a lot

about the Miliband brothers. scenario in which Ed Miliband steps

down? Tomorrow's speech is critical. A big speech. In opposition, your

next speech is the most critical one. I am sure he will be the

Leader of the Opposition when the next election comes, the sooner,

the better. And the talk continues, too good a story for the newspapers

to walk away. The newspapers have such fun, such fun about Tony Blair

and Gordon Brown. That was nostalgia. Ann looks back to a

golden past. These brothers make an exciting story. But, Ed's will make

a breakthrough, he will draw people's attention it to education,

One of the weirdest weeks of weather just passed. Baking hot and

desert dry in parts of the south, and snow falling in Wales. Then,

what we used to call in our family, "thunderplumps", big dumps of

sudden rain. For the picture throughout Britain for the rest of

The mixed weather continues for the week ahead thanks to low pressure.

The first arrives today which means for England, Wales and Northern

Ireland, a wet and breezy day. A band of sometimes heavy rain will

run north and east, the winds picking up. The rain, not great

news for the tennis at Queen's Club, the rain it setting in there. Sunny

spells and showers into Scotland. Overnight, this band of rain will

push north across the UK. The heaviest towards the end of the

night. For the rest of us, damp and drizzly by dawn. But a mild night,

into double figures. Monday, not a particularly nice start, a few

bursts of rain, wet and windy in northern Scotland. For the rest of

us, the skies will brighten, decent spells of sunshine, a little bit

water -- warmer. Dry and find on Tuesday. Low pressure brings

further showers in the middle of The Australian Labour Party swept

to power in 2007 after many years in opposition. Kevin Rudd, the

charismatic young leader, delivered electoral victory. But, within a

couple of years, his popularity began declining. Colleagues in the

party started muttering, and he was swiftly deposed and replaced by his

deputy. Rather more swift and brutal than the coup attempts in

the Labor Party around the same time. But, unlike Tony Blair or

Gordon Brown, Kevin Rudd remains at the top of the tree. He's

Australia's Foreign Minister, and he's just arrived in London. Good

morning. You are here for this huge

conference on vaccination. People realise this is a massive issue,

literally millions, possibly tens of millions of us are hanging in

the balance. This is fundamentally important. If you are concerned

about aid effectiveness, it is one of the most effective things you

can do worldwide. This global alliance on vaccinations and

immunisations, over the last decade, millions of kids around the world

had been immunised, 5 million kids's buyers have been saved.

Extraordinary work, it makes him until difference. That's why we are

behind it 100%. Let us talk about the world as it seems from

Australia's viewpoint. It is round. You have got troops, 1,500, in

Afghanistan, where you have been taking bosses in proportion as well.

There seems to be a mood, not a mutinous mood, but a weary wooed --

mood. Australia has been in Afghanistan since 2001. But we have

been resolute throughout, with support from both sides of

Australian politics. In the last five years, we have been waged

between Holman's and Kandahar. A fairly violent part of the world.

The poorest province in Afghanistan. But we intend to be resolute and

remain there until our mission is discharged. We are mindful what

Hamid Karzai said about transition, and Afghan led security. We intend

to complete our mission. Are you very worried about the governance

issues in Kabul. There have been terrible stories of corruption

there, haven't they? Failure to extend a authority. Let me give you

an example about the province we have responsibility end. The

country's poorest province. If you are going to give an insight into

how the country as a whole is going, I can give you generalities, but

specifics on this province. I have visited it four or five times, in

transition. In terms of the security hold of our the province,

it is quite extensive. The provincial governor is running out

an effective programme, with probity standards which are highly

reasonable by Afghanistan standards. We have roads under construction,

markets emerging, schools cropping up, I opened a mosque there the

other day. And I have got to say, in terms of overall delivery of

basic services, girls going to school, we are seeing a radical

transformation. On a Richter scale of 1-10, we began at one. 10 is a

fully functioning Westminster democracy. We are somewhere near

five. But let me tell you we are making progress. If the trouble is,

when the troops come out, it is a letter had the Taliban will come

back, then all those girls at school had a bleak future. Let me

give you a provincial example, we have this was pretty good training

battalions in the Afghan national army. We have 1,500 troops there.

We are well advanced in training that battalion. With the Afghan

national police. It is not perfect but they are becoming highly

competent security forces. We are not in the business of creating a

fully functioning Westminster democracy, we are not deluded. In

terms of what is described as Afghanistan good enough, we are

headed in that direction against most of the measures. Let me ask

about China, your local superpower. Globally heading in that direction

as well. They have a revamped aircraft carrier which has alarmed

some people in the region. An interesting kid when the global

economy is ropey. Do you think the Chinese are extending their

military muscle around the Pacific and China Seas? I first went to

work in China in 1984. You are a fluent Chinese Speaker and expert.

Most Chinese experts are surprised by what they see in China. The

radical transformations, the world is largely familiar with, communism

becoming a market economy. The radical transformation of the

Chinese economy in terms of its global size. What we need to

prepare ourselves for is for this to accelerate again. The Chinese

are the most recent -- have most recently agreed on a growth model

taking it in terms of services industry based, relies on renewable

energy, which will create a new engine of growth. 96 cities in

China have populations in excess of 5 million. Ageing populations in

excess of 10 million. Skyscrapers going up. Let us say China within

the next decade is likely to emerge as the world's largest economy. Its

foreign policy will increase which creates challenges and

opportunities. In the autumn, we have the Commonwealth heads of

government summit. An emotional visit by the Queen. She is always

very welcome in Australia. And very well liked. What is the mood about

republicanism? These things come and go. The Australian Labour Party

is committed to turning the country into a republic. We have not

stipulated a timeline. We are sensitive to the other priorities

as a nation. But, in time, the country will head in that direction.

There is a deep affection in Australia for the Queen. The Queen

has been the Queen of us since I was born, she is part of the

firmament of Australia's national life. But the country is evolving.

Do you think perhaps Prince Charles will not be king of Australia?

is an -- it entirely a matter for when we have a referendum. Our

priority is now are the global economy, developments in Europe,

making sure we are dealing with the rise of China. This falls somewhat

David Cameron hasn't abandoned his controversial health reforms, he's

put them on hold while he listens to his critics and decides how best

to modify them. So this is either an example of a grown-up government

willing to listen, or it's a humiliating U-turn. Whatever your

verdict, it's certainly been a serious rethink. The outcome should

be known tomorrow. I'm joined by Stephen Dorrell, often tipped to

take over it Andrew Lansley goes, and by Dr Clare Gerada or. From

what we know now, and we have heard David Cameron at least give the

outlines of where the government is going, would you accept phrases

like the U-turn our fair enough? What he's done is the calibrate the

discussion, so that we are now focused on what it is we are trying

to do for patients and the delivery of health care, and less on

bureaucratic structures. They Frankley mean very little to

patients. What we need to see is a more integrated health service that

breaks down some of the fragmentation that received too

often, in particular have found care of the elderly, and welds it

together into a service that they able to deliver quality and

efficiency. What originally word the GPs' worries about this reform?

We wrote to the Prime Minister with our nine major concerns, which I'm

not going to repeat. But the main one is around restoring the

Secretary of State's duty to provide a comprehensive health

service, and also the systems that underpin that - the systems around

planning and resource allocation. The third one was the area of

competition and the role of Monitor. What we didn't want is an NHS that

driven by competition. Competition has a part to play but the culture

should be around integration, co- operation and collaboration, which

it has been for the last 60 odd years. Those were our major

concerns. If the rethink involves putting back the Secretary of

State's statutory responsibility for health care, and if there's a

much slower it moved to GP commissioning, and it, above all,

Monitor, this organisation at the top, isn't there primarily to push

commercial companies into the NHS, then your organisation is going to

be happy? Of course, this has to work for patients. We need to see

what is going to be in the rewrite. What we would rather see his

competition not driving in any shape or form our health service.

We've got to see collaboration, co- operation and integration. For too

long it's been about competition. Competition has a place but it also

has unintended consequences. It fragments services, you end up with

patients having chronic conditions with services that take a long time

to knit together. We don't want to unpick that and make things worse

for patients. Given where we are now, these changes have started to

happen, do you think it's better to press ahead with a reformed Bill

rather than ditch the thing? think it's better to start taking

stock. The NHS has been through so many reforms. I think the NHS staff

need to be congratulated for the care that they do and we need to

start restoring morale and start making things better for patients,

through working together across health, social care, primary and

secondary care. Whether we have a rewrite of the Bill or no bill at

all, I leave that to the politicians. In the papers again

today, Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister, is declaring victory on

behalf of the Lib Dems. The more the Lib Dems say we have achieved a

major U-turn and change the Government's policy, which they

feel they have to save for their own supporters, the angrier and

more irritated the Conservative MPs get. If you approach this issue as

a political rebalancing, frankly, you'll never get to the end of it.

What we need to do is focus on the policy rather than the politics.

And deliver a more integrated service that meets the needs of

patients. One of the things that Clare said that I'd like to pick up

his this implication that somehow there's a choice to be made between

competition on the one hand and integration on the other. I don't

think that's true. I think part of the issue for those who hold

budgets in the health service looking forward is to look at

alternative ways of delivering care that address some of the

fragmentation which is part of the history of the health service that

needs to be improved upon. When you ask the Prime Minister in the House

of Commons about this, he was making pretty clear there were big

changes in what's coming. That's what you are expecting tomorrow.

What I'm expecting his baby focus on the objectives of trite -- what

we are trying to do for patients. What matters is a service that

knits together the different areas - health care, community care,

hospital service, social care - all of which are trying to meet the

needs of individual patients. lot of people had been worried that

Monitor is driving change in the NHS and was being told, above all,

to bring in competition. Your job is to get private companies into

the NHS. Get some of these US and British help their companies inside

the NHS. That was what was worrying people most. If Monitor's role was

to change into integrating service, that would be a big change which

could be better for the health service? It's a change in the

rhetoric. But there's an implication here that that -- there

is a public-private partnership. It was Nye Bevan who set up the health

service as a public-private partnership. The question is how

you deliver the objectives better for patients. Absolutely. It is

very confusion because competition means bringing in other providers,

and many of those other providers won't be from the not-for-profit,

voluntary sector or the NHS existing services. That's not

necessarily true. We'd like to see the resources for the NHS that

remain in the NHS and don't go into third party pockets. Don't you

think there are very efficient, effective private sector providers.

They make a profit but they can still provide a better service than

somebody can at the moment -- could be a good thing? Competition has a

place. But there's very little evidence that external providers

can provide a better service. They are also unstable. We've seen this

with Southern Cross, you don't know how long they are going to last.

The end up with services on five to seven-year contract, which means

patients don't tend to have five to seven-year diseases, they have long

term. In the original bill there was a very strong suggestion that

some current parts of the NHS might just go bust if they fail to

provide the services. That again worried people. In what we see

tomorrow, are you expecting that to disappear? That was actually in the

structures that were set up during the later years around Foundation

Trusts. That these are independent institutions. The question is what

happens to them when they get into financial difficulty? This is the

implication that this is No. Howl something new. Within the health

service, throughout its history, of course it's a change an institution.

When institutions no longer meet a current requirement, you have to

change them. Do you think the legislation will go through this

summer? I do. So we will get a bill and the reforms back on track?

Andrew Lansley will remain Health Secretary? Andrew Lansley will

remain Health Secretary. The Prime Minister has made that clear and he

has also made clear from the beginning of the process that no

change can never be an option for the NHS. And particularly not at a

time when the key challenge it faces come at a time when resources

are less generously endowed than they were in the last decade, is to

meet the needs of patients who use resources more efficiently. When

the Liberal Democrats at their conference, look how well we've

done, and your colleagues of grinding their molars, what would

you be saving? Just take it on the chin and move on? Look at the

policy, not at the politics. Simon Callow is one of our most

celebrated character actors. He stole the show in Four Weddings and

a Funeral. He's also appeared in period dramas such as A Room With A

View, the wonderful E M Forster novel which became a film. And he

brought Charles Dickens to staging a one-man show which got fantastic

reviews and coverage. He's working still on a biography of Charles

Dickens. His latest project gives him a chance to take on an array of

Shakespearean roles, all in one evening. This is a one-man play

called Being Shakespeare, which explores the dramatist's life and

work. It opens this week in London. Let's talk about the Shakespeare

performance, which draws heavily on a rather wonderful book. Jonathan

Bates, the genius of Shakespeare. It was inspiring to me because it

showed us how William Shakespeare was educated. That is something

that no one ever thinks about. They think of him as this boy from

Stratford who probably had no education and picked it all up as

he went along, but he was a grammar school boy. Grammar-school boys had

an education that would make a PhD student Bourke to date. He knew how

to use language. That's all he learned. He didn't learn anything

about history or geography, just language. Although people say we

know almost nothing about Shakespeare's life, that is not

exactly true. We know all the important things. We know where he

was born, where he died, when he got married, how many children he

had, when they died, his career. How he went to London and the plays

he wrote. What we don't know is all the intimate, in their stuff that

we long to know. What he thought about things, what people thought

about him. In this performance, do you pick up things... There has

been a lot of talk about Hamlet and his own son dying, there are hints

and echoes in the play of that interior life. Absolutely. We use

the seven Ages of man as the structure, which is the story of

all of us. We ask what it was like to be members -- to the Elizabethan

child, schoolboy, lover, soldier and so one. By putting together

what we know about what it was to be an Elizabethan of William

Shakespeare's kind, a boy from the country, and what we know about him

and then what we find in the plays, it's possible to give a sense of

what it was like to be William Shakespeare. From what you are

saying, I can detect you have no truck with all of those people who

say William Shakespeare, the historical William Shakespeare, was

far too ignorant to have written these plays, it must have been

bacon or somebody else. It's hard to know why his principal rival,

Ben Johnson, would have written the preface to his collected works and

said, these plays were written by the man who we've shown a picture

of, who is William Shakespeare from Stratford on Avon. Why would he

like? Why would Ben Johnson lie about that? Why would Shakespeare's

colleagues like? Shakespeare was not written by Shakespeare but by

another man of the same name. Exactly. This is a performance

which follows the dickens performance. Yes. You are writing a

biography of Charles Dickens as well. A short biography. It's much

harder to write a short biography than a long one, but in the case of

Charles Dickens, about whom we know everything. 12 volumes of his

letters have now been produced. 1000 pages each. We know almost

everything but still come up with him there is a mystery. There has

to be with every writer. That's part of what we are trying to do

with William Shakespeare, is to probe the mystery. You've done

Shakespearean roles yourself. It's an obvious question, but presumably

you'd like to do King Lear at some point. I long to do it. What I want

to do over the next 10 years of my life, to play the parts that are in

my range now. King Lear, Shylock, Titus and vomitous. The point is

the older you get, the more you understand what he wrote. Its

famously true that if you are Juliet, it is impossible to

understand what Shakespeare wrote about Juliet because the he was 35

or what ever when he wrote it and understood more about what it is to

be young than a young person can know. I'd like to ask you about

something which has been hugely dominating the papers in the last

couple of weeks - care homes. And the way old people... You put

your mother into a carehome. Yes. just wonder how you react to this

sense that as a country we are not putting enough money and thought in.

We've got some of these great big carehome countries -- companies in

terrible financial difficulty. a very grave situation. I'm lucky,

I found a very good home for my mother, but it's not cheap at all.

I pay quite a lot towards that. have to downsize. I did. Basically,

I sold my house in order to make sure I'd have enough money. My

mother is 92 now, but she shows absolutely no sign of what ever of

wanting not to be alive any more. So she could easily live for

another 10 years, which means I could easily still be supporting

her when I'm 75, which is quite a serious thought. This is something

which may happen to you at 75, but also, we will all end up, we may,

if we are lucky, all end up in care homes. It doesn't dominate

political debate as perhaps it ought to. It's such a hard thing to

take on board. The more medicine advances, the longer people live.

That's something we haven't really probably taken on board. Its

massive. The idea of someone living-92 in my family circles

would have been incomprehensible. Of all the iconic film roles that

we could talk about, A Room With A View, perhaps because of some wild

early scenes that are stuck in people's memory, frolicking... Was

that a particular favourite of yours? It was wonderful. It was my

second film ever. My first film was Amadeus, it was a nightmare to make.

Partly because the director was trying to directed in a country

from which he had departed. They were and are likely to forgive him

for that. Room with a view was a Merchant Ivory film, which meant it

was family. Suddenly you had a feeling that everybody was in it

together. There was no hierarchy. Although there were some of the

most famous actors in England at the time, Maggie Smith and Judi

Dench and Denholm Elliott. It felt We're going to end with a clip from

one of your most popular films, A Room With A View.

Congratulations, blessings, your because benediction. I want you to

be supremely happy. As man and wife, mother and father. And now 40.

in time. David Cameron has robustly defended

Britain's aid budget, when every other aspect of government spending

has been squeezed. But the idea of helping the disadvantaged in far

flung countries ahead of the disadvantaged in this country does

have its critics. Andrew Mitchell, the International Development

Secretary is here. Good morning. We will come on to the critics in a

moment. Let us start with your big conference tomorrow, the

vaccination conference which Kevin Rudd was talking about. Of course,

we are familiar with the fact that nation can cut child mortality. Why

is this something people at home should be focusing on now? We had a

look when they came into government at all of the different ways

Britain does development, who the British taxpayer funds. One of the

very best was the global alliance for vaccines and immunisation way

you can vaccinate a kid in the poor world for the price of a cup of

coffee, against killer diseases. Children and Britain do not die

from these diseases. Everyone is coming together tomorrow for a

pledging conference to support this, led by our Prime Minister. We are

hoping by tomorrow lunchtime to have raised sufficient funding over

the next four years to vaccinate a quarter of a billion children in

the poor world and save millions of lives. We want to support it very

strongly. We have a leadership role. As a result of the action taken

tomorrow we have a real chance of saving more than four million

children's lives. If you look at the amount of funding coming in,

the Gates Foundation has provided the vast majority. From one of the

early American tycoons, the man who dies rich, dies disgraced.

remarkable combination, very many countries including new countries

doing this like Korea, private philanthropic foundations, the

private sector. Britain is doing a matching funding approach, so we

drag in as much private sector funding and match it. A combination.

Committed to try to save lives in the poor world. Let me ask you

about a specific issue, we have seen these terrible photos about

Syria, and what appears to be a hideous act taking place in

northern Syria, people fleeing over the border. What can we do to help?

You are right, pictures of extraordinary brutality and

repression. That is why the International Committee unanimously

has called on Assad to reform or go. People are fleeing into Turkey in

large numbers. We have been in close touch with the International

Red Cross, and at the moment, the Turkish Red Crescent is engaged on

the border providing accommodation for 5,000 people. Britain will give

strong humanitarian support in terms of Shelter, medicines and

food from our stores in Dubai. The key thing is to stop the repression

which is causing very large numbers of people to cross the border. If

it continues, there will be an enormous exodus from Syria. We call

on this Syrian government to stop this. At the United Nations, we are

seeking to get a resolution to put further pressure on the regime.

are still at the ratio -- up at this stage of resolutions but no

leverage when it comes to Assad, different to Libya. But it is

totally different from the situation in Libya because the Arab

world which was unanimous on the subject of Gaddafi is not so on its

area. This is the art of the possible, we do what they can. The

British Foreign Office has been extremely effective at the United

Nations, using humanitarian support to try to help in what is a brittle

and difficult situation. You were in Libya a few days ago with the

Foreign Secretary. There is clearly still difficult humanitarian areas

around Misrata and Benghazi. Another attack overnight by

Gaddafi's forces. Are civilians in those areas relatively speaking now

safe? Did it that bit of the job has been done to Secure Benghazi?

We have been successful in terms of getting food and medicine within

Libya to the people who are at great risk. Britain was a strong

supporter it in Misrata, not least in taking from the quayside

thousands of poor migrant workers who were being shelled by Gaddafi.

Britain said we would help to remove them. On the borders were

900,000 people have fled across into Egypt and Tunisia, Britain was

one of the first countries to get there with shelter and to get

people away from the borders. That prompt action has stopped a

religious school crisis on the border turning into a serious

humanitarian emergency. Today there are less than 5,000 people on the

borders. In terms of Misrata, it is clear there was an offensive by the

Gaddafi militia, firing on Misrata. Most of the shells fell short of

the city. But more than 30 people were killed or wounded yesterday in

Misrata. On to the subject of aid, you were the only minister who has

a substantial increase in his Budget to look forward to. Plenty

of your colleagues on the backbenches in particular and some

on the front bench feel that this is not fair. So many people in

Britain are still not getting a good education, unable to find work,

in genuine poverty, that a government in times which are tied

should be looking first at the people at home. I think it was

absolutely right of the coalition to say in the early days we would

not balance the books on the backs of the poorest people in the planet.

This Budget is morally right to do so, we live in an unequal word of

great discrepancies, poverty far worse than anything we see today in

Britain or in most of Europe. The fat in it southern sudan, a new

state, will burst on the world on July night, a girl born there today

has more chance of dying in childbirth if she has a baby than

of completing primary-school education. It is morally right. It

is in Britain's national interest. We do not protect as a duty only by

guns but by training the police in Afghanistan, getting goals into

school, building up governance structures. You mention Afghanistan

and Ethiopia, what about India where they have enough money for a

large nuclear force, enough money to put a satellite into space. But

they're not spending the money on their poor people, why should we

step in? They are. We made tough decisions when they came into

office. We stopped aid to China and to Russia. We have frozen the

Indian programme. Since the war, it is not Britain's largest programme

for the first time. We have focused on the poorest people in India.

India is a place where there are more poor people then the whole of

sub-Saharan Africa. Britain's programme today is demonstrative,

it shows how we can get more people into school, more healthcare to

women. These programmes are massively scaled up by the Indian

tax payer. British know-how is making a huge contribution. Now is

not the time to stop the programme in India. It is part of a much

wider partnership that was greatly reinvigorated by the premise that

in his visit last year. When you talk about Britain being an aide

superpower, that irritated colleagues. I said a development

superpower. What I meant, just as America is a military superpower,

because of the Brent things Britain is doing in the poorest places in

the world, saving lives. I don't know if you have visited one of

these awful malnutrition clinics in a hospital in a country like Uganda

and seen children half the size of ours at the age of two. We can have

a huge impact. One final thing, would it not be better actually to

take that budget and hand it to the leading NGOs, why does it have to

be done by government? NGOs which do brilliant stuff all around the

world have a role to play. In the end, the approach the coalition

government has is to go with what works. We deployed taxpayers' money

so every pound delivers 100 pairs of development on the ground.

Sometimes it is the NGOs which do that.

Now over to Susanna for the news headlines.

The United States has accused Syria of creating a "humanitarian crisis"

with its crackdown on anti- government protests. Turkish

officials say more than 4,000 Syrians have fled across the border

to escape the violence. Refugees claim helicopters and tanks were

used to attack people. Makeshift refugee camps have been set up in

southern Turkey. The IMF says it is investigating is

enough good attack on its computer network. The IMF holds says did

economic data about many countries. The attack has been described as

large and sophisticated and is thought to be related to an

unidentified government. That's all from me for now. The next news on

BBC1 is at 11am. Andrew Mitchell is still here. And we welcome back Ann

Treneman and Kevin Rudd. I mentioned Australian politics was

brutal. Straight out of Shakespeare. We have made she spent at her here

already. Any lessons for British politics? I have a slightly

different take. I know the brothers Miliband well. For more than a

decade. Here in Britain you have actually got a couple of

significant resources. They are both highly intelligent. Value

driven politicians who I have known for a long time. But second point

is, being Leader of the Opposition, and there have been that as well,

it is the most awful job in the Western parliamentary system.

Everyone would agree with that. I have been to the Australian

Parliament. They are much more brutal than we are. A blood sport.

A blood sport in our Parliament to be fair. Your Question Time is

actually quite gentle. But have you seen there's? Equally violent but

the Brits do it by euphemism, we are not given to euphemisms. Ann,

you need to get a bit of sketching down there with even more extreme

language. The problems in opposition are familiar, your party

went through the same. Labour has a different problem. We have huge

economic difficulties which we are wrestling with and Labour did not

have a plan for the billions of cuts they have pencilled in. Until