06/11/2011 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. Nice to be with you. Andrew is abroad putting a film

together, and the Prime Minister's been abroad, trying to put the

Eurozone together, so we'll definitely be discussing that over

the next hour. Joining me today to review the Sunday newspapers - the

Labour peer, broadcaster, and, more recently, novelist, Joan Bakewell,

and the Conservative MP, Margot James. And in those newspapers,

there's lots of Greece. At the G20 summit in France, Mr Cameron and

company tried to work out how to stop the Greek crisis spreading,

but in the end the question here comes down to whether British

taxpayers should pay to bail out a currency we didn't join. The Chief

Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, will be here to tell us.

He's been able to trumpet slightly improved growth figures, but if

Europe is on the cliff edge could it pull the British economy over

the edge? What's the plan, Dan? And we have a full deck of Alexanders

today. The turmoil in the Eurozone is something I'll also be asking

the Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander about. Labour's

been highly critical of that summit in Cannes, calling it the 'do

nothing' summit. I'll also be talking to him about the Middle

East. With tensions ratcheting up between Israel and Iran, what does

he think Britain should be saying to the government of Benjamin

Netanyahu? Mr Netanyahu's Deputy, Ehud Barak, has been in London

arguing for greater sanctions against Iran. Mr Barak is also the

country's Defence Minister and I've been asking him how Israel would go,

militarily, in its bid to restrain its Iranian neighbour. And we have

also got a man who is the biggest film star in the world by anyone's

reckoning right now: Johnny Depp. He will be talking to me about rum,

pirates, lowlifes, oh, and journalism too. I think the

journalist can be the hero, it just depends on the road they take.

often do you hear that these days? All that coming up after the news

with Sally Nugent. Good morning. Avon and Somerset

police say no more bodies have been found overnight at the scene of the

M5 crash near Taunton. Seven people were confirmed dead yesterday and

more than 50 are injured. Investigations are underway to find

out what caused the multiple pile- up, one of Britain's worst motorway

accidents. The police put up floodlight to allow them to

continue their investigation into the night. They work to recover

bodies trapped in the burnt-out vehicles bound to piece together

what caused this horrific crash. Eyewitnesses described flames of up

to 30 feet as fire swept through the many vehicles involved. Members

of the public and the emergency services desperately tried to help

as cars were engulfed by the intense heat. We clambered out the

car, and the Lady was screaming "take my baby" So I carried the

baby over the central reservation, where a bit of debris zoomed over

my head. From the air, the full scale of the crash emerged.

Vehicles had melted into the ground, wreckage was strewn across the

carriageway. As the debris is now being removed, questions are being

asked how this could have happened. The weather was very bad. The

people who have driven down that road will know that it is often a

difficult stretch of road but we have to let the police get on with

their investigation. This morning, the M5 remains closed. The shock

waves of what could be the worst accident of a generation are still

reverberating. Avon and Somerset Police have set

up a helpline for people concerned about relatives. The number is 0800

092 0410. Anti-capitalist protesters, camped

outside St Paul's cathedral, have received a boost from the Labour

leader Ed Miliband. Writing in the Observer newspaper, he warned that

"only the most reckless" would ignore their message. He described

the protest as a "wake up call" for politicians, and said it reflects

frustration in mainstream British society about the way the country

is being run. The Greek President will meet the

country's main opposition leader today - to discuss efforts to form

a national unity government. Yesterday the President held talks

with the Prime Minister George Papandreou. Opposition parties are

calling for early elections, but Mr Papandreou says that would de-rail

efforts to solve Greece's financial crisis and stop it spreading across

the Eurozone. The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge

are to make Kensington Palace their permanent London home. In two

years' time they'll move from temporary accommodation at the

palace to a family-sized apartment which was used by the late Princess

Margaret. Prince William grew up at Kensington Palace and his mother,

Diana, Princess of Wales also lived there. That's all from me, I'll be

back just before ten with the headlines. Jeremy.

Thank you. On the front pages today, let's have a look at what we have

got. The Sunday Times is continuing with the story about the border

unit, being hit by a new bribes scandal, they say. A lot on the

crash here on the M5, and questions about whether a nearby fireworks

display at a rugby club put smoke across the road and caused it. Just

another angle on the Eurozone crisis, this is the Silvio

Berlusconi angle. And with me to review the papers are Joan Bakewell,

and Margot James. Welcome to you both. What have you got? Margot,

you are going to go on the Eurozone crisis. David Smith, Economics

editor on the Sunday Times, has a good take on it. He is quite

pessimistic, saying the crisis will run and run, and he covers it from

China actually. He has been in China whilst the summit has been on,

and he angles it about the Chinese writer growth and how we can't

really expect them, when their workers are paid more or less the

same on benefits, to come to the Eurozone's rescue, but he does say

their economy is growing and old trade with China grew 15%, our

exports to China, and we should be doing more of that. It would be

good if the government had enough time to focus on exports and

recovery opportunities. There is a limit to what we can do. Will the

idea be that China comes in and bales us all out? This reporter

doesn't think so. That was Nicolas Sarkozy's Dream, but they have not

been very forthcoming. Also in the Sunday Times, leading on the

business page, RBS splashes out 500 million on bonuses for bankers. Are

they not listening? What does it take? They are now proposing a

total package worth more than �1 million each in a new bonus screen

for bankers. I think we get more calls to my Radio 2 show about

bankers than any other subject. also read here that project Merlin,

a feeble agreement with the bankers to limit extravagance, will not be

operating next year. On the subject of that, you went down to a tent

city, a full page of you down at St Paul's, could you tell us who was

in the right or the wrong? We are not anywhere near that, we are

facing a groundswell of feeling that the system is not working. How

could we quarrel with that? It clearly isn't. Peter Hitchens in

the Mail, my old sparring partner, has a go at the protesters - "What

a festival of drivel" and he goes into rejoiced in his usual language

that they don't have any idea. I spoke to a barrister, to graduates,

to a group of Muslims who are talking about how Islam funds money.

They have unfocused demands, they would like the system reconfigured,

but who wouldn't? The shutting of the doors was the big moment, was

that the same for you, that went St Paul's so the doors are shut - was

that the big problem? We have a right to protest, which we should

jealously guard, but I don't feel that right is necessarily the same

as the right of occupying public land outside one of our greatest

national treasures indefinitely. I personally don't think it does.

That's not to say the people there don't have a point, a agree they do

have a point, a point which is felt by many millions of people, but

should they be permitted to stay there indefinitely? I personally

don't think so. The Church Mr point here because they got their PR

wrong and started slamming them and abusing them, and then realised

that to shut the doors up of a Christian church in the face of the

poor and people like this was a really bad move. We could talk

about it for a long time. Let's have another story. This tragic car

crash on the M5, absolutely shocking. We all use the motorways

all the time, and one is a split- second away from disaster and

tragedy. There are so many potential causes but we should

probably wait until the investigation is complete. One

thing that seems to jump out when one of these major tragedies occur

is Fire and oil spills from these articulated lorries. Perhaps they

should be better protection of their fuel tanks. Are you concerned

it has taken the whole idea of 80 mph as the speed limit completely

off the table? There was no doubt that if it had been 80 it would

have been the worst accident. know that? We don't know how fast

people were driving. I don't think people were driving that fast

anyway, from the reports I have heard from the people interviewed

who survived. There is a government plan to bring it up to 80. I'm not

sure it was the speed causing the problem, I think it was the fog,

but we don't know yet. Rather than jump to conclusions that people

were driving too fast, we should wait until the inspection is

delivered. I just wondered whether the government planned to put it up

to 80 will fall by the wayside now. It has already been questioned. The

road safety campaigners have questioned it, but if people were

not driving fast, surely the speed limit is not really relevant.

Labour peers are fighting in the House of Lords to try to inhibit

the damage their health and social care bill will do to the NHS. He

was a story in the Observer about plans already in place and taking

operation to move the services for the NHS to private operators, a

conglomerate including McKinsey, KPMG, and Price Waterhouse Coopers

sealed a contract with 31 groups of GPs looking for advice on how to

manage budgets on a system being introduced by the Andrew Lansley

reforms. This is the slow intrusion of privatisation into the NHS.

just thinking, we have the perfect foil to you here, because that is

your background - private health. don't think this is anything new.

Under the last government, there were private contractors coming in,

Independent treatment centres, and they made a lot of improvement.

am not saying that, but the idea that German companies, foreign

international firms, they are lining up to take contracts to run

the NHS and to compete. I have read the piece, I think it is not quite

as extreme as you point out. I am talking to the GPs about having

help with the commissioning process. There is a strict budget and it is

less than what the primary care trusts spend and surely we should

be advocating better value from the taxpayer. I can see this one could

take-off as well! Let's go to the next story. This is something we

will agree on. Peter Hitchens writing in the Mail, this is about

the dreadful desecration of the war memorials by the ghastly metal

thieves, going around destroying war memorials. It seems to be a big

thing this year particularly, the price of metal has gone through the

roof. That's right, and people are stealing from railway lines, nylons,

it is endemic. But this is a new level, isn't it? It is, and the

British Legion have a campaign starting this week to protect war

memorials, which obviously we will be throwing our weight behind. We

have got to stop the ease with which illegal metal is sold at

scrapyards for cash. That is the key thing the government can do.

totally agree with that. Just anecdotally, I have never worn a

puppy before. Just over the years, tradition and resistance to doing

the same as everyone else, but this year, because of this story, I have

resolved to wear one because I am so outraged that those memorials,

you know, lest we forget many of them say, and we appear to have

forgotten. And the scrap price is virtually nothing. People can just

get cash. They can come away with 40 quid, 100 quid, and no record of

the transaction so you can't trace it. Anything else before we let you

go? Do you want a bit of silliness? I have lost it now. It was a German

diplomat who had had an affair with a Russian spy and he is not allowed

to show his face but they do have him dressed as a banana. The idea

that you can identify this man from his knees! I know this story, it is

in the Mail. He has a cover over his eyes. Here it is, I have got it.

We have got to show this picture. We can't name the Banana man who

had an affair with the Russian spy. The idea that you put it there and

nobody knows who it is. Your novel coming out, "she is leaving home".

It stayed quite dry for Bonfire There was certainly some frost

around this morning with temperatures in the countryside

down as low as minus 5. Most have got some sunshine to look forward

to for the rest of the day, thanks to this area of high pressure

building across the country. We have seen low cloud filling in

across the North Sea and that is coming in on a northerly breeze. It

is not entirely clear cut which side of London will get the cloud

or the sunshine, but we should see some sunshine spreading in through

the day. Most will have some sunshine. As we go through this

evening and overnight, thicker cloud will spread in, and it will

seep in across southern and central England as well. A large swathe of

the country will have Clear and starry skies with a widespread

frost to come. It will be colder this coming night. The week ahead,

that cloud I was talking about in the North Sea will become more

extensive and that will have an impact on the temperatures. That

cloud becomes more extensive across central and eastern England. Not

Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland should have the best of the

sunshine. A much more great day to come, but by Tuesday the cloud will

have spread to Scotland and By any standards, Ehud Barak's had

an astonishing career serving his country. Israel's Prime Minister

during the Camp David negotiations with Yasser Arafat now serves as

both Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister in the current.

Before entering politics, he was one of the most decorated soldiers

carrying out the military ops that are now the stuff of legend amongst

many. A man of peace or war? When I met him, I asked why his

Government's authorised the building of more settlements,

despite international criticism? are building in Jerusalem. It's our

capital. We are building in the Jewish neighbourhoods of Jerusalem.

You have to build. We will not accept anyone having the right to

intervene as this. That is seen as speaking up isn't it, as

acceleration? No, it's about numbers and pace. Number per unit.

When Olmert was Prime Minister, we were building at twice the rate we

are building now. When I was Prime Minister ten years ago, we were

building four times at the rate we are building now. But again, it's

about the symbolism. Why not just stop for a while? The other side

see this as getting in the way? Don't they? No, no, the other side

plays with it as a kind of manipulation to put certain

conditions into the dialogue. The reason that the Olmert and my

government could do it was because somehow we managed to convince the

rest of the world that we are genuine and now we are facing more

sophisticated Palestinian groups which fills the Zeitgeist behind

them. They try to play with these issues of settlements. It's really

shouldn't matter. You said something very interesting there,

you said you are dealing with a sophisticated Palestinian

leadership now and they're very Zeitgeisty and I couldn't have put

it better myself in these questions that they're getting world opinion

behind them, aren't they? Yes, yes. We have to work to probably allow

our spokesman to talk more open to others, but it wants all of the

issues... Are you frustrated? little bit. Effectively we cannot

convince our friend. To be clear, you accept that it strengthens

Hamas if you go on building the settlements or not? I don't think

it relates to Hamas. Hamas is basically challenging maz. They're

turning to terror -- Abu Mazen. They're shooting at us rockets, you

know, we get dozens in our southern part of the country. One man, a

father of four, was killed. That's something that cannot go together

with peace-making. Let me change the subject. We challenge for Abu

has tonne take over the role of his own political system. I want to

move on because we don't have much time. I want to talk to you about

Iran as well. If we had the Israeli newspapers here and opened them up,

we'd see that everyone in Israel is now thinking that you are getting

ready to attack Iran. Is that what people are saying? Believe me, I

don't try to underestimate the Iranian threat, it's a major threat

probably of the region or the whole world. A nuclear Iran. They're

determined to reach nuclear capability kablt. It can open a

major arms swathe in the Middle East. It can change the

effectiveness of their supporting and sponsoring of terror all around

the region. Which is why the Israeli papers are saying, you are

ready to strike? I have been saying it for years now and they'll

intimidate neighbours in an effect f way, especially when the

Americans and others move out of the region. I hope that the IAEA

report next week will tell the whole world a little bit more

explicitly what they are doing. This is the narrative that's coming

together. It's the missile test, the long range bombing plan, the

IAEA report which you mentioned, so they may say that Iran is getting

close to a bomb. We strongly believe that sanctions are

effective or could be effective if they are little and powerful enough.

The diplomacy could work if enough unity could be synchronised between

the major players, but that no option should be removed from the

table. You have an amazing military record and for those who don't know

it. Correct me if I am wrong, 1972 led the mission to free hostages on

a Sabina flight, 1973, you dressed as a woman to assassinate members

of the PLO. You are nodding there. It was a hobby, yes. A seen in the

film Munich reflected that. An operation in 1976, you helped with

Black September. I'm thinking you are not indo diplomacy here, I

would like to attack Iran? No, I was also Foreign Affairs Minister

of Israel and the Prime Minister in the last 15 years. I didn't shoot a

single shot at anyone and I played the diplomatic saloons and TV

interviews as well, you know. It's too serious. Israel is dead. A

person cannot choose its parents and a person cannot choose its

neighbours. We are living in a tough neighbourhood, no Mercy for

the weak, no second opportunity for those who cannot defend themselves.

We'd love to have the Canadians as our neighbours, but unfortunately

the Americans. It's a tough neighbourhood. We have to be strong.

If you suddenly attack Iran next week, I want to make sure we ask

every question, do you have British support for flying over them and

dropping a bomb on their nuclear reactors? I'm not going to even

respond to this. May I say, don't worry about your next week

programme but it's the Iranian challenge which is serious. This is

something that should be prevented from happening. We have to stay

there. We are strong. We are the strongest country for thousands of

miles around Jerusalem. We intend to remain the strongest country

around. But we are at the same time peaceful and ready to Makepeace at

any moment with any one of our neighbours. Pretty cautious, Ehud

Barak there, no options ruled out on Iran and listening to what Mr

Barrack had to say was DAX, the former Foreign Secretary -- Danny

Alexander. I hope that that does not come to pass because we all

have a collective interest in Iran recognising its responsibilities

under international law and desisting from developing a nuclear

capability. But the threat is real and it's a very serious situation

which is why I want to see renewed effort on the twin track approach

that's being taken by the international community on one hand

strengthening the sanctions regime. I would pay tribute to the work

Cathy Ashton's done in the European Union on that issue. Engaging with

Tehran to help them understand, on the other hand, that there's no

future for Iran being an international pariah. Isn't it fair

to say that that hasn't worked and in that time, the sanctions and the

diplomacy, they've been getting closer to having a bomb and once

they get one, you don't have that option any more? I recognise that

represents a very serious threat to the region and indeed to the world.

Let's have a broader context on this. There's been a big loser and

a big winner the Arab world out of the Arab Spring that we have seen

and I would argue that the two countries competing for leadership,

ironically none are Arab, you have Turkey on one hand and Iran on the

other. In that sense, Turkey has been prevailing and Iran has been

losing the 1979 revolution is increasingly seen on the Arab

street not has being the way forward but as a diversion and a

side step from the huge changes that we are seeing now. So the

Iranian regime is under pressure, that's why it's important that the

world speaks with one voice and sends a clear signal. Why in that

context would you like Israel to rule out bombing Iran. I think we

are a long way from military action at this stage because I think it's

important that we choose our words carefully and send a very clear

unequivocal signal, not just to the Iranian government, but Ahmadinejad,

the man who denied the existence of the Holocaust. A few days ago in

New York he was peddling conspiracy theories about 9/11. We need to

send a clear signal that we do not accept the legitimacy of Iran doing

that. You criticised Mr Barak. final answer said you needn't worry

in terms of the days to come. I want to make sure there is a clear

diplomatic focus in the days, weeks and months ahead. OK, why are you

calling the Cannes summit, the G0 summit the do-nothing summit when

there's been so much going on? Because we gretibly it's the second

international summit in as many weeks that's broken up without the

action that the global economy needs -- regrettably. We are

minutes from midnight in terms of the condition of the European,

indeed the global economy and that's why there was a heavy

responsibility on the leaders in Cannes, not simply to talk, but to

act. Alas, we didn't see the action that I think would have helped

protect British jobs, British exports and prosperity in the

future. Looking at the news bulletins, seems like there was a

lot going on, Cameron, Merkel, Sarkozy and Obama, the referendum

was called off. Activity is not the same as action. Greece represents

2% of European output. We have a huge vested interest as the UK, not

simply in what happens in Greece and the eurozone, but what is going

to happen in Italy and Spain potentially unless that action's

taken. I don't think the staunchest defenders of the G0, and I support

that process, would regard the Cannes summit as a success. It's is

second failure in as many weeks. It's not cheap to be attacking the

Prime Minister from this country when there's an international

summit? I think the responsibility on the Prime Minister is to

exercise influence for the United Kingdom. I think it's

understandable when European leaders are perplexed when the

Prime Minister as recently as March was telling Chancellor Merkel that

he didn't want to be in the meetings about the eurozone because

he didn't want Britain to contribute. Then two weeks ago, he

was knocking on the door and insisting that Britain be present.

It was George Osborne, the Chancellor of the Exchequer who in

July said there was an inexorable logic towards a single fiscal area,

as well as a Single Currency. The Government's been asleep at the

switch since then when they should have recognised that if that was to

be the outcome, that should represent a real threat. Tell us

what you would have done, if Ed Miliband had been there? Difference

both in approach and what we'd be advocating. Firstly, the approach.

I travelled with Gordon Brown ahead of the G20 in 2008 to South America.

He literally toured the world trying to build consensus for what

then became the agreement that got us through that phase of the crisis

and I think there are genuine differences in terms of the level

of engagement in what we have seen from David Cameron and George

Osborne in recent months. What should they have been saying? We

need a balanced approach that recognises the importance of

dealing with the deficit but also with growth. One of the reasons

Greece is in the crisis afflicting it at the moment is the absence of

growth. In that sense, I didn't hear the British Prime Minister

talking about the centrality of growth to deficit reduction, as he

hasn't done here in Britain, also internationally. That's very long-

term thinking, isn't it? This is a crisis that's happening now, the

fire is now. You may have a situation where Greece falls out of

the eurozone? Well, for the first time, that was speculated upon at

the summit. We've got a huge interest in making sure that the

eurozone manages to find a way forward. I worry about the approach

that's been taken on the Conservative benches. There is no

strategy. We have a huge interest in the European Central Bank

recognising its responsibility. think they've been asleep at the

wheel? It's been disappointing. There hasn't been the political

support for the ECB. Do you want to IMF to take over that? I don't see

there being a contribution between the ECB and the IMF recognising its

responsibilities. The way the Bank of England is for sterling and the

way the Federal Reserve is for the US Dollar, so the ECB needs to

deliver more fire power. David Cameron himself talked about a big

bazooka from Europe but we haven't seen that action in recent weeks.

That shouldn't be at the cost of the IMF being willing to act if

necessary in the future. You don't mind in principle British money

going into the IMF, then them putting that money the way of

Greece or shoring up the pigs, as they are called? We've always

supported the IMF as the UK. What is that money used for, we, as the

Labour Party don't want the IMF's recapitalisation to become a

pretext or excuse for the ECB not recognising its responsibilities.

Both institutions have responsibilities, the IMF and ECB,

and both may be required. strikes on the 30th November now,

public sector pensions, the key theme. Teach efrs and Local

Government and everything else. You think that the people drawing the

public sector pension who is're angry about the changes deserve

more than they are getting. Is that right? There needs to be further

negotiations. None of us want to see a strike. There has been

thrand's been Government compromise? Maybe something you can

ask the Chief Secretary -- there's been Government compromise. We have

seen, as a welcome step forward, there needs to be compromise by

both sides. The public sector Trade Unions need to recognise that we

need to work longer and contribute more in the future. There are

specific details, on the other hand, to continue to be needed to be

looked at. Look at the position of a part-time nurse earning �15,000

or �16,000, the increase of contributions means she would lose

�900 a year. The changes they've proposed, as we understand it, will

impact on the poorest people in the public sector, many of them women,

much more impactfully than on others. But you don't think the

strike should go ahead? We want the negotiations to be taken forward.

There needs to be further compromise on both sides and let's

hope that if there is serious negotiations, we can avoid a strike.

Your colleague John Hutton says it's hard to imagine a better deal?

Let's see what the negotiations yield. One more for you, slightly

personal. The whole business at St Paul's which we were talking about

in the papers review with Joan and Margot. They shut the doors and

your father was a pastor? Yes. Grandfather as well? Yes. Did you

I think their job is to be a prophetic voice on issues of public

morality. I think as Ed Miliband said in the paper today, what the

press -- protesters are doing is talking about the rules by which

society is run. Righteousness, and the relationship between the top of

society and the rest of us is pretty broken at the moment and

needs to be healed. So those protesters at the moment are in

some way and iteration of your party at the moment? They have a

range of demands but they are speaking of the general anger which

I sensed in my own constituency and across the country, and it is a

distraction to speak about the protesters. The issues they speak

of our much profound and much more widely held. Thank you.

When it comes to movie blockbusters, there are few actors with the box-

office firepower of Johnny Depp. Who is the biggest movie star in

the world right now? To that question there is an answer, Johnny

Depp is the hottest property in Hollywood even if he does live in

France. His new movie, the The Rum Diary, was found in a boxed in

Hunter S Thompson's basement and he decided to make a movie of it. I

asked him if his character in the movie is an attempt to portray the

journalist as a hero. I think that journalists can be a hero, it just

depends on the road they take. Hunter's Road was a long one and he

became a voice for the people. He was a very moral guy. In this

country, there is a crisis over journalism at the moment and

journalists have never had a poor reputation. I guess you have heard

about the phone hacking scandal, what are your thoughts on that?

is as low as you could possibly get. To get into something as devious as

that, as horrific as tapping into someone's phone, hacking into

someone's personal life, private life and then selling it, it is as

low as it gets. Watching you in the new film, I was thinking are you

betraying the journalist as a hero because you think journalists are,

or are you showing us what we should be? A journalist as observer

and documenting the moment, and that is what Hunter S Thompson did,

especially back then when he was very young and trying to find his

voice, trying to find that out lead for the rage, where it was going to

go. It came to about 1966 when the Hell's Angels came around, it

started to take another shape, and therefore gonzo journalism, putting

himself into the middle of the situation. It is interesting to

hear stories about you staying with him. The book for this film you

found in a box, didn't you? Yes, we were looking for the manuscript of

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and I found another one. Opened a taut,

and wrapped in a rubber band was The Rum Diary.

I love this car. Did he give it to you? I wish. You want a little bet?

A bet about what? That you scream before I do. In relation to what?

How fast does it go? And so we began to read it. I don't think he

had taken a look at it since he had dumped it in there in 1960. We

started reading it, it was very good. It had a nice bite to it, and

a good narrative. It was his only novel, so he decided we should make

it into a film. I said maybe publish its first, and that is what

he did, he published it for the following year. All these years

Your career has got two tracks, in a way, because you have Pirates of

the Caribbean and that franchise, and you are by all accounts the

biggest star in the world. I don't mean to embarrass you, but 75

million in the last year it is a lot. You use big box-office movies

to fund films like this, more independent. Definitely, it is part

of the balance you have to keep. The fact that Pirates of the

Caribbean happened for me, and Alice in Wonderland, and things

like that, it was much of a fluke or as surprising to me as anyone. I

never expected any of that, so I always try to maintain some sort of

balance within characters. You go outside a bit here, then you take a

right turn over here. In terms of the audience, to keep them, well,

to never bore them. Is that have the film industry works now, that

instead of the big companies making a variety of films, they basically

make the big box-office films and then it is down to people like you

to give us the more interesting films? Studios are looking to spend

money to make money. That is the crux of it, and it is a gamble

every time out of the gate. You roll the dice, but when studios

have had successful franchises such as Harry Potter or Pirates, they

will be much more interested in doing that all over again, how to

recreate that. But, I think for an actor, you want to be able to stay

with the people. Just to ask you about Ricky Gervais, who I know you

know, and he made a joke about you at the Golden globes. What was it,

two dimensional? He was probably right by the way. The film was The

Tourist, but you have now appeared in his new TV show, Life's Too

Short, where you are basically given a dressing-down.

Have you met before? This is Stephen. Nice to meet you.

Ricky. I actually remember him from the Golden Globes. Did you think

long about that? No, I knew it had to be done, immediately. Obviously

he is very funny, and can be very self-deprecating. It was a great

opportunity to sort of get in there and have a go at him, and just have

a ball. And we laughed, you know, there was probably more footage

they couldn't use than they probably did.

Do you know who my new leading lady is in the new film? The Tim Burton

film? Yes. Helena Bonham Carter? How did you know? Star Up In the

dark. She thinks you are an idiot. In Vanity Fair, he was making the

point that you have made a colossal amount of money, and why do you

work so hard? You said it was the kids. Have you got to the point

where they have enough? What is the reason? A enjoy the process. I

don't necessarily enjoy the things that go along with it. There is a

certain necessary evil with regard to the work, I mean terms that I

don't quite understand or can't quite come relate to my name, terms

like celebrity or fame I find very uncomfortable, but when I say it is

for the kids, yes, you want to do something for them. Not necessarily

the money for them, the work is for the kids. I want to, when I become

smoke one day, I want to have done something that lake can be

potentially proud of, or at least a body of work. Thank you for

speaking to us this morning. Thank you, I appreciated.

David Cameron has been warning in stark terms that the British

economy is getting worse every day the eurozone crisis drags on, but

what impact is the international chaos having at home? There are

concerns that growth has stalled, and I am joined by Danny Alexander,

chief secretary to the Treasury. You must be a worried man?

course the situation in the eurozone is very serious. 3 million

jobs in the UK depend on our trade with the European Union, and those

people and businesses are affected by the uncertainty. Equally, having

a resolution to the crisis is in a sense the most important thing that

can happen for the UK economy this autumn. Positive steps were made at

the G20 summit. So it was not the do-nothing summit? That is totally

wrong. There are a lot of positive things. Activity or action?

found a commitment to increasing the IMF's Resources in order to

ensure there is a global firepower, if you like, to deal with the

crisis at a global level. The week before you saw a commitment to a

much greater euro-zone fund of one trillion euros. The details have to

be fleshed out a. You spend your whole day with numbers because we

run out of money, as someone famously said, so the IMF gets 10

billion a year from us, it went up to 20 billion as a result of the

vote in June, and now it is going up further by how much? We have two

sort of money we give to the IMF, the 20 billion ceiling for each.

There is a maximum of 40 billion we can make available. Currently only

about 5 billion of that is in use so we have the capacity to go up to

that ceiling. Without a vote in Parliament? Yes, Parliament has

already voted for the additional 20 billion of new arrangements to

borrow. For so we are currently putting 5 billion or 20 billion?

The 5 billion is a combination of those two things. We can go up to a

ceiling of 20 billion and it works as a contingent liability, in other

words we are not handing over cash, it is a promise to pay to back up

the IMF's lending if things go wrong. No government has ever lost

money in terms of the resources made available to the IMF. We

should be supporting it, that is why it was wrong to vote against

making additional resources We didn't go into the euro and this

is a problem for countries in the euro. Once you extend credit to the

IMF, it goes to Greece? No country in the global economy can be an

island. We are in a hugely interdependent world. We have to

play a role as a global leader as one of the largest economies in the

world. We set up the IMF precisely to ensure that there was a

mechanism for supporting... But to be clear, you are happy with this

money we give to the IMF going to Greece? You are happy with that?

am. There's already been agreed. The plan for Greece involves

commitments from the IMF, separate commitments from the eurozone, the

two organisations are working together. There are uncertainties

about Greece which have to be resolved. Let me ask you, on that

score, are you in the Treasury planning for Greece's exit from the

euro? We have contingency plans for all sorts of eventualities. Are you

planning for that? That seems like the less likely outcome of the

Greece situation. We have seen huge political uncertainty, the

referendum plan has been dropped, the Prime Minister's had his vote

of confidence and we need to see the Greek government exercise its

responsibilities to deliver the plan that they've set out and upon

which we, through the IMF and eurozone has promised to make

resources available. You say it's the least likely option, a lot of

people think it will have to go back to the drachma. I'm not going

to get into eventualities and hypotheticals that we have plans

for. The most important thing we can do as a responsible global lead

ser to work alongside the Americans, Chinese and others to put maximum

pressure on the eurozone to make Greece take responsibility for

their problems and ensure we take our responsibilities to sit

alongside the bazooka. It's a very expensive BA zoo and and it was

said, why join the euro when it's breaking up -- bazooka. It was a

misunderstanding of what he was saying, he was using a phrase used

for him by a backbencher. That's the least likely option. We in the

UK need to look at the eurozone and see the very, very strong political

commitment there is from those countries to keep the European

Single Currency together. The developments that they are making

in terms of having closer integration on the fiscal side. One

thing that we have to do is make sure that the role that we have,

the role that the other countries outside the euro have is protected

within that European decision- making so we continue to shape the

growth agenda, which is in our demand in terms of deregulating at

European level. That's a British agenda for leading Europe. People

watching will be thinking, why would anyone in this country have

ever suggested we go into the euro. So maybe you can tell us why you

did? I argued, along with others on a cross party basis in the Britain

and Europe campaign that we should join the euro in the economic

conditions were right. What I would say is that the extra flexibilities

we have being outside the Single Currency are something that's been

a strength to us. You weren't wanting us to be in it, you were

speak fog the organisation called Britain Ahead in Europe. You argued

for it? I very much believe that Britain's vocation is, as a

European country, that our trade, that our business needs depend on

the links to Europe. In relation to the euro though, I argued that

Britain should join only if the economic conditions were right,

they were found not to be, at least in part because of the way the euro

developed in its early days. As a result, we have greater flexibility,

not least the devaluation the found has seen, to help us through the

crisis. The effects on us, some say it could set us back six years,

could half the value of shares, a real horror show? I don't endorse

those figures. Many British businesses are seeking to trade and

export to the eurozone. Positively, resolving the crisis would be the

biggest boost we could see to the British economy at a time we we

face ourselves a long, slow road to recover rifplt I think if anything

this crisis in the eurozone could remind people of the fact that what

Britain did when the coalition Government came into power, the

Liberal Democrats helped negotiate that agreement. We set out a plan

from the beginning to take control of our own circumstances, we need

other countries to do the same. are making an announcement about

house building and infrastructure. Tell us what that is? I'll announce

the half billion pound growing places fund, setting out the

details of how much each area will get. It's to help people who are

perhaps wanting to build houses in a local area but need a link road

built or the land needs to be decontaminated or flood defences

need be put in place. We are making available half a billion to pay for

that upfront so the developer can invest billions more in building

houses, in employing people and getting Britain building again and

then when the development is built out and sold, they can repay the

money and it can be used again. Isn't that rather small beer when

you consider what's needed in this country right now and your critics

will say too little too late? are many other things we are doing.

The regional growth found is supporting businesses up and down

the country. The steps on taxation on deregulation are supporting

businesses too. We have a specific problem in communities which is

there are plans for building houses, they have the things in place, but

we can unlock development and unlock tens of thousands of jobs by

helping them. I mentioned to Danny Alexander about the strikes and the

unions are hopping mad -- Douglas Alexander. The Independent carries

a story saying you would like to go ahead, the Prime Minister would

like them to go ahead because it will destroy their case. Where are

you in that argument? I don't want the strikes to go ahd. The

Government's been negotiating hard for the last eight months with the

Trade Unions. -- ahead. We made a significant offer to public sector

workers earlier this week. I set it out to the House of Commons in

terms of the more generous payments we were willing to offer.

backed down some people said? this is the discussion and I set

aside what funds I think are appropriate to make sure we both

protect the taxpayer and also get the quality of public sector

pensions that people want to see. Look, I think in a sense the most

important people here are not the Trade Union leaders, they're the

individual nurses, teachers, civil servants. This week and over the

next few weeks, we'll communicate directly to 2.5 million public

servants to explain to them directly what it is the

Government's offering. I think in a sense, in those people's hands is

the decision whether or not to strike, in those people's hands is

tin influence on the unions and I think when people go to the

Treasury website, see what is set out, they'll see this is a generous,

positive offer that will protect the value of public service

pensions for 25 years to come. It's a prize worth having. Sour going

over the heeds with the unions? Most moderate unions want agreement

but some seem desperate and hell bent, if you like, on strike action.

What we need to make sure is the interests of public servants aren't

set aside in the interests of Trade Union leaders who want to go on

strike. Danny Alexander, thank you for now. No more bodies have been

found overnight at the scene of the M5 crash near Taunton. Seven people

were confirmed dead yesterday and more than 50 injured.

Investigations are under way to find out what caused the multiple

pipup, one of Britain's worst. The Greek president will meet the

country's main opposition leader today to discuss efforts to form a

new coalition government. Yesterday, he held talks with the Prime

Minister, George Papandreou, opposition parties are calling for

early elections, something Mr Papandreou says would derail

efforts to solve Greece's financial crisis and stop it spreading across

the eurozone. That is it from me. The next news

is at midday on BBC One. Back to Jeremy in a moment, but first a

look at what is coming up after the programme:

Today on Sunday morning live. Is Britain full up or do we still have

room for more immigrants? As the Church of England forgotten its

Christian roots in favour of power and snun Islamic extremists want to

disrupt Armistice Day when we remember our dead. Is that what

these soldiers fought for? See you at Ten.

Danny Alexander is still here and Joan Bakewell rejoins us. Let's

talk about St Paul's and the morality issue around that?

very interested in what seems to be a revival of morality in public

life and the feeling that many people have, inclouding the church,

the Archbishop of Canterbury, that public life isn't governed by the

moral issues in the way that it perhaps once was and that things

like the discrepancy between the highly paid and the lowliest is out

of hand. What do you think about that? Well, there's clearly a very

strong sense of that. Politicians who talk about morality sometimes

get into trouble but I think it's very important that there is a

strong sense that we are going the right things here and that we do

get away from our economic culture that's been based on excess, which

it Abu Hamza has been for the last 20 or 30iers. I think the peeve

Government had an opportunity to sort that out, it didn't take it,

we are taking steps such as new taxes on the bankers, such as the

regular... In effect, it's been proved in the headlines? No, that's

not the case, we are raising an extra �10 billion over the next

four years... But the overall impact of your policys is to damage

the lowliest in society, lowliest being a religious word, you know,

but the widows, orphans, the single mothers, the people who have their

care cut? I don't accept that characterisation of what we are

doing. What I would say is that in a sense if what you want to see is

the country doing to t right thing and sorting out our finances too...

I want to get back to St Paul's, we could do the whole of economic

policy but we need to talk about St Paul's. You see the tents and you

are a Lib Dem. Doesn't mean I live in a tent. Well I wondered if you

might say in your wisdom in spirit that you feel the same unease about

what they are protesting about? think there are some issues they're

drawing attention to which are important, as Douglas Alexander

said, there are a whole range of demands. Do you feel it's about

capitalism? Capitalism's built up our economies around the world over

many decades so I don't feel unease about capitalism. What I do feel

unease about and things as a Government we have been acting on

is the lack of regulation and control over the City of London,

the lack of inability to ensure that we, as taxpayers, don't have

to bail out the bankers every time they get things wrong. Those are

the things we are trying to change. Let's have more control and restore

legislation. This's exactly what this Government is doing. Thank you

very much. That is it for today. Andrew is back next Sunday at 9

with a special edition of the programme for Remembrance Day. And,

by the way, this coming week leading up to Remembrance Day on my

Radio Two programme, we are featuring the stories of mother

hos've lost their sons in armed combat and who remember them

through the music they loved. Guests will include the Chief of