06/11/2011 The Andrew Marr Show


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Good morning. Nice to be with you. Andrew is abroad putting a film


together, and the Prime Minister's been abroad, trying to put the


Eurozone together, so we'll definitely be discussing that over


the next hour. Joining me today to review the Sunday newspapers - the


Labour peer, broadcaster, and, more recently, novelist, Joan Bakewell,


and the Conservative MP, Margot James. And in those newspapers,


there's lots of Greece. At the G20 summit in France, Mr Cameron and


company tried to work out how to stop the Greek crisis spreading,


but in the end the question here comes down to whether British


taxpayers should pay to bail out a currency we didn't join. The Chief


Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander, will be here to tell us.


He's been able to trumpet slightly improved growth figures, but if


Europe is on the cliff edge could it pull the British economy over


the edge? What's the plan, Dan? And we have a full deck of Alexanders


today. The turmoil in the Eurozone is something I'll also be asking


the Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander about. Labour's


been highly critical of that summit in Cannes, calling it the 'do


nothing' summit. I'll also be talking to him about the Middle


East. With tensions ratcheting up between Israel and Iran, what does


he think Britain should be saying to the government of Benjamin


Netanyahu? Mr Netanyahu's Deputy, Ehud Barak, has been in London


arguing for greater sanctions against Iran. Mr Barak is also the


country's Defence Minister and I've been asking him how Israel would go,


militarily, in its bid to restrain its Iranian neighbour. And we have


also got a man who is the biggest film star in the world by anyone's


reckoning right now: Johnny Depp. He will be talking to me about rum,


pirates, lowlifes, oh, and journalism too. I think the


journalist can be the hero, it just depends on the road they take.


often do you hear that these days? All that coming up after the news


with Sally Nugent. Good morning. Avon and Somerset


police say no more bodies have been found overnight at the scene of the


M5 crash near Taunton. Seven people were confirmed dead yesterday and


more than 50 are injured. Investigations are underway to find


out what caused the multiple pile- up, one of Britain's worst motorway


accidents. The police put up floodlight to allow them to


continue their investigation into the night. They work to recover


bodies trapped in the burnt-out vehicles bound to piece together


what caused this horrific crash. Eyewitnesses described flames of up


to 30 feet as fire swept through the many vehicles involved. Members


of the public and the emergency services desperately tried to help


as cars were engulfed by the intense heat. We clambered out the


car, and the Lady was screaming "take my baby" So I carried the


baby over the central reservation, where a bit of debris zoomed over


my head. From the air, the full scale of the crash emerged.


Vehicles had melted into the ground, wreckage was strewn across the


carriageway. As the debris is now being removed, questions are being


asked how this could have happened. The weather was very bad. The


people who have driven down that road will know that it is often a


difficult stretch of road but we have to let the police get on with


their investigation. This morning, the M5 remains closed. The shock


waves of what could be the worst accident of a generation are still


reverberating. Avon and Somerset Police have set


up a helpline for people concerned about relatives. The number is 0800


092 0410. Anti-capitalist protesters, camped


outside St Paul's cathedral, have received a boost from the Labour


leader Ed Miliband. Writing in the Observer newspaper, he warned that


"only the most reckless" would ignore their message. He described


the protest as a "wake up call" for politicians, and said it reflects


frustration in mainstream British society about the way the country


is being run. The Greek President will meet the


country's main opposition leader today - to discuss efforts to form


a national unity government. Yesterday the President held talks


with the Prime Minister George Papandreou. Opposition parties are


calling for early elections, but Mr Papandreou says that would de-rail


efforts to solve Greece's financial crisis and stop it spreading across


the Eurozone. The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge


are to make Kensington Palace their permanent London home. In two


years' time they'll move from temporary accommodation at the


palace to a family-sized apartment which was used by the late Princess


Margaret. Prince William grew up at Kensington Palace and his mother,


Diana, Princess of Wales also lived there. That's all from me, I'll be


back just before ten with the headlines. Jeremy.


Thank you. On the front pages today, let's have a look at what we have


got. The Sunday Times is continuing with the story about the border


unit, being hit by a new bribes scandal, they say. A lot on the


crash here on the M5, and questions about whether a nearby fireworks


display at a rugby club put smoke across the road and caused it. Just


another angle on the Eurozone crisis, this is the Silvio


Berlusconi angle. And with me to review the papers are Joan Bakewell,


and Margot James. Welcome to you both. What have you got? Margot,


you are going to go on the Eurozone crisis. David Smith, Economics


editor on the Sunday Times, has a good take on it. He is quite


pessimistic, saying the crisis will run and run, and he covers it from


China actually. He has been in China whilst the summit has been on,


and he angles it about the Chinese writer growth and how we can't


really expect them, when their workers are paid more or less the


same on benefits, to come to the Eurozone's rescue, but he does say


their economy is growing and old trade with China grew 15%, our


exports to China, and we should be doing more of that. It would be


good if the government had enough time to focus on exports and


recovery opportunities. There is a limit to what we can do. Will the


idea be that China comes in and bales us all out? This reporter


doesn't think so. That was Nicolas Sarkozy's Dream, but they have not


been very forthcoming. Also in the Sunday Times, leading on the


business page, RBS splashes out 500 million on bonuses for bankers. Are


they not listening? What does it take? They are now proposing a


total package worth more than �1 million each in a new bonus screen


for bankers. I think we get more calls to my Radio 2 show about


bankers than any other subject. also read here that project Merlin,


a feeble agreement with the bankers to limit extravagance, will not be


operating next year. On the subject of that, you went down to a tent


city, a full page of you down at St Paul's, could you tell us who was


in the right or the wrong? We are not anywhere near that, we are


facing a groundswell of feeling that the system is not working. How


could we quarrel with that? It clearly isn't. Peter Hitchens in


the Mail, my old sparring partner, has a go at the protesters - "What


a festival of drivel" and he goes into rejoiced in his usual language


that they don't have any idea. I spoke to a barrister, to graduates,


to a group of Muslims who are talking about how Islam funds money.


They have unfocused demands, they would like the system reconfigured,


but who wouldn't? The shutting of the doors was the big moment, was


that the same for you, that went St Paul's so the doors are shut - was


that the big problem? We have a right to protest, which we should


jealously guard, but I don't feel that right is necessarily the same


as the right of occupying public land outside one of our greatest


national treasures indefinitely. I personally don't think it does.


That's not to say the people there don't have a point, a agree they do


have a point, a point which is felt by many millions of people, but


should they be permitted to stay there indefinitely? I personally


don't think so. The Church Mr point here because they got their PR


wrong and started slamming them and abusing them, and then realised


that to shut the doors up of a Christian church in the face of the


poor and people like this was a really bad move. We could talk


about it for a long time. Let's have another story. This tragic car


crash on the M5, absolutely shocking. We all use the motorways


all the time, and one is a split- second away from disaster and


tragedy. There are so many potential causes but we should


probably wait until the investigation is complete. One


thing that seems to jump out when one of these major tragedies occur


is Fire and oil spills from these articulated lorries. Perhaps they


should be better protection of their fuel tanks. Are you concerned


it has taken the whole idea of 80 mph as the speed limit completely


off the table? There was no doubt that if it had been 80 it would


have been the worst accident. know that? We don't know how fast


people were driving. I don't think people were driving that fast


anyway, from the reports I have heard from the people interviewed


who survived. There is a government plan to bring it up to 80. I'm not


sure it was the speed causing the problem, I think it was the fog,


but we don't know yet. Rather than jump to conclusions that people


were driving too fast, we should wait until the inspection is


delivered. I just wondered whether the government planned to put it up


to 80 will fall by the wayside now. It has already been questioned. The


road safety campaigners have questioned it, but if people were


not driving fast, surely the speed limit is not really relevant.


Labour peers are fighting in the House of Lords to try to inhibit


the damage their health and social care bill will do to the NHS. He


was a story in the Observer about plans already in place and taking


operation to move the services for the NHS to private operators, a


conglomerate including McKinsey, KPMG, and Price Waterhouse Coopers


sealed a contract with 31 groups of GPs looking for advice on how to


manage budgets on a system being introduced by the Andrew Lansley


reforms. This is the slow intrusion of privatisation into the NHS.


just thinking, we have the perfect foil to you here, because that is


your background - private health. don't think this is anything new.


Under the last government, there were private contractors coming in,


Independent treatment centres, and they made a lot of improvement.


am not saying that, but the idea that German companies, foreign


international firms, they are lining up to take contracts to run


the NHS and to compete. I have read the piece, I think it is not quite


as extreme as you point out. I am talking to the GPs about having


help with the commissioning process. There is a strict budget and it is


less than what the primary care trusts spend and surely we should


be advocating better value from the taxpayer. I can see this one could


take-off as well! Let's go to the next story. This is something we


will agree on. Peter Hitchens writing in the Mail, this is about


the dreadful desecration of the war memorials by the ghastly metal


thieves, going around destroying war memorials. It seems to be a big


thing this year particularly, the price of metal has gone through the


roof. That's right, and people are stealing from railway lines, nylons,


it is endemic. But this is a new level, isn't it? It is, and the


British Legion have a campaign starting this week to protect war


memorials, which obviously we will be throwing our weight behind. We


have got to stop the ease with which illegal metal is sold at


scrapyards for cash. That is the key thing the government can do.


totally agree with that. Just anecdotally, I have never worn a


puppy before. Just over the years, tradition and resistance to doing


the same as everyone else, but this year, because of this story, I have


resolved to wear one because I am so outraged that those memorials,


you know, lest we forget many of them say, and we appear to have


forgotten. And the scrap price is virtually nothing. People can just


get cash. They can come away with 40 quid, 100 quid, and no record of


the transaction so you can't trace it. Anything else before we let you


go? Do you want a bit of silliness? I have lost it now. It was a German


diplomat who had had an affair with a Russian spy and he is not allowed


to show his face but they do have him dressed as a banana. The idea


that you can identify this man from his knees! I know this story, it is


in the Mail. He has a cover over his eyes. Here it is, I have got it.


We have got to show this picture. We can't name the Banana man who


had an affair with the Russian spy. The idea that you put it there and


nobody knows who it is. Your novel coming out, "she is leaving home".


It stayed quite dry for Bonfire There was certainly some frost


around this morning with temperatures in the countryside


down as low as minus 5. Most have got some sunshine to look forward


to for the rest of the day, thanks to this area of high pressure


building across the country. We have seen low cloud filling in


across the North Sea and that is coming in on a northerly breeze. It


is not entirely clear cut which side of London will get the cloud


or the sunshine, but we should see some sunshine spreading in through


the day. Most will have some sunshine. As we go through this


evening and overnight, thicker cloud will spread in, and it will


seep in across southern and central England as well. A large swathe of


the country will have Clear and starry skies with a widespread


frost to come. It will be colder this coming night. The week ahead,


that cloud I was talking about in the North Sea will become more


extensive and that will have an impact on the temperatures. That


cloud becomes more extensive across central and eastern England. Not


Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland should have the best of the


sunshine. A much more great day to come, but by Tuesday the cloud will


have spread to Scotland and By any standards, Ehud Barak's had


an astonishing career serving his country. Israel's Prime Minister


during the Camp David negotiations with Yasser Arafat now serves as


both Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister in the current.


Before entering politics, he was one of the most decorated soldiers


carrying out the military ops that are now the stuff of legend amongst


many. A man of peace or war? When I met him, I asked why his


Government's authorised the building of more settlements,


despite international criticism? are building in Jerusalem. It's our


capital. We are building in the Jewish neighbourhoods of Jerusalem.


You have to build. We will not accept anyone having the right to


intervene as this. That is seen as speaking up isn't it, as


acceleration? No, it's about numbers and pace. Number per unit.


When Olmert was Prime Minister, we were building at twice the rate we


are building now. When I was Prime Minister ten years ago, we were


building four times at the rate we are building now. But again, it's


about the symbolism. Why not just stop for a while? The other side


see this as getting in the way? Don't they? No, no, the other side


plays with it as a kind of manipulation to put certain


conditions into the dialogue. The reason that the Olmert and my


government could do it was because somehow we managed to convince the


rest of the world that we are genuine and now we are facing more


sophisticated Palestinian groups which fills the Zeitgeist behind


them. They try to play with these issues of settlements. It's really


shouldn't matter. You said something very interesting there,


you said you are dealing with a sophisticated Palestinian


leadership now and they're very Zeitgeisty and I couldn't have put


it better myself in these questions that they're getting world opinion


behind them, aren't they? Yes, yes. We have to work to probably allow


our spokesman to talk more open to others, but it wants all of the


issues... Are you frustrated? little bit. Effectively we cannot


convince our friend. To be clear, you accept that it strengthens


Hamas if you go on building the settlements or not? I don't think


it relates to Hamas. Hamas is basically challenging maz. They're


turning to terror -- Abu Mazen. They're shooting at us rockets, you


know, we get dozens in our southern part of the country. One man, a


father of four, was killed. That's something that cannot go together


with peace-making. Let me change the subject. We challenge for Abu


has tonne take over the role of his own political system. I want to


move on because we don't have much time. I want to talk to you about


Iran as well. If we had the Israeli newspapers here and opened them up,


we'd see that everyone in Israel is now thinking that you are getting


ready to attack Iran. Is that what people are saying? Believe me, I


don't try to underestimate the Iranian threat, it's a major threat


probably of the region or the whole world. A nuclear Iran. They're


determined to reach nuclear capability kablt. It can open a


major arms swathe in the Middle East. It can change the


effectiveness of their supporting and sponsoring of terror all around


the region. Which is why the Israeli papers are saying, you are


ready to strike? I have been saying it for years now and they'll


intimidate neighbours in an effect f way, especially when the


Americans and others move out of the region. I hope that the IAEA


report next week will tell the whole world a little bit more


explicitly what they are doing. This is the narrative that's coming


together. It's the missile test, the long range bombing plan, the


IAEA report which you mentioned, so they may say that Iran is getting


close to a bomb. We strongly believe that sanctions are


effective or could be effective if they are little and powerful enough.


The diplomacy could work if enough unity could be synchronised between


the major players, but that no option should be removed from the


table. You have an amazing military record and for those who don't know


it. Correct me if I am wrong, 1972 led the mission to free hostages on


a Sabina flight, 1973, you dressed as a woman to assassinate members


of the PLO. You are nodding there. It was a hobby, yes. A seen in the


film Munich reflected that. An operation in 1976, you helped with


Black September. I'm thinking you are not indo diplomacy here, I


would like to attack Iran? No, I was also Foreign Affairs Minister


of Israel and the Prime Minister in the last 15 years. I didn't shoot a


single shot at anyone and I played the diplomatic saloons and TV


interviews as well, you know. It's too serious. Israel is dead. A


person cannot choose its parents and a person cannot choose its


neighbours. We are living in a tough neighbourhood, no Mercy for


the weak, no second opportunity for those who cannot defend themselves.


We'd love to have the Canadians as our neighbours, but unfortunately


the Americans. It's a tough neighbourhood. We have to be strong.


If you suddenly attack Iran next week, I want to make sure we ask


every question, do you have British support for flying over them and


dropping a bomb on their nuclear reactors? I'm not going to even


respond to this. May I say, don't worry about your next week


programme but it's the Iranian challenge which is serious. This is


something that should be prevented from happening. We have to stay


there. We are strong. We are the strongest country for thousands of


miles around Jerusalem. We intend to remain the strongest country


around. But we are at the same time peaceful and ready to Makepeace at


any moment with any one of our neighbours. Pretty cautious, Ehud


Barak there, no options ruled out on Iran and listening to what Mr


Barrack had to say was DAX, the former Foreign Secretary -- Danny


Alexander. I hope that that does not come to pass because we all


have a collective interest in Iran recognising its responsibilities


under international law and desisting from developing a nuclear


capability. But the threat is real and it's a very serious situation


which is why I want to see renewed effort on the twin track approach


that's being taken by the international community on one hand


strengthening the sanctions regime. I would pay tribute to the work


Cathy Ashton's done in the European Union on that issue. Engaging with


Tehran to help them understand, on the other hand, that there's no


future for Iran being an international pariah. Isn't it fair


to say that that hasn't worked and in that time, the sanctions and the


diplomacy, they've been getting closer to having a bomb and once


they get one, you don't have that option any more? I recognise that


represents a very serious threat to the region and indeed to the world.


Let's have a broader context on this. There's been a big loser and


a big winner the Arab world out of the Arab Spring that we have seen


and I would argue that the two countries competing for leadership,


ironically none are Arab, you have Turkey on one hand and Iran on the


other. In that sense, Turkey has been prevailing and Iran has been


losing the 1979 revolution is increasingly seen on the Arab


street not has being the way forward but as a diversion and a


side step from the huge changes that we are seeing now. So the


Iranian regime is under pressure, that's why it's important that the


world speaks with one voice and sends a clear signal. Why in that


context would you like Israel to rule out bombing Iran. I think we


are a long way from military action at this stage because I think it's


important that we choose our words carefully and send a very clear


unequivocal signal, not just to the Iranian government, but Ahmadinejad,


the man who denied the existence of the Holocaust. A few days ago in


New York he was peddling conspiracy theories about 9/11. We need to


send a clear signal that we do not accept the legitimacy of Iran doing


that. You criticised Mr Barak. final answer said you needn't worry


in terms of the days to come. I want to make sure there is a clear


diplomatic focus in the days, weeks and months ahead. OK, why are you


calling the Cannes summit, the G0 summit the do-nothing summit when


there's been so much going on? Because we gretibly it's the second


international summit in as many weeks that's broken up without the


action that the global economy needs -- regrettably. We are


minutes from midnight in terms of the condition of the European,


indeed the global economy and that's why there was a heavy


responsibility on the leaders in Cannes, not simply to talk, but to


act. Alas, we didn't see the action that I think would have helped


protect British jobs, British exports and prosperity in the


future. Looking at the news bulletins, seems like there was a


lot going on, Cameron, Merkel, Sarkozy and Obama, the referendum


was called off. Activity is not the same as action. Greece represents


2% of European output. We have a huge vested interest as the UK, not


simply in what happens in Greece and the eurozone, but what is going


to happen in Italy and Spain potentially unless that action's


taken. I don't think the staunchest defenders of the G0, and I support


that process, would regard the Cannes summit as a success. It's is


second failure in as many weeks. It's not cheap to be attacking the


Prime Minister from this country when there's an international


summit? I think the responsibility on the Prime Minister is to


exercise influence for the United Kingdom. I think it's


understandable when European leaders are perplexed when the


Prime Minister as recently as March was telling Chancellor Merkel that


he didn't want to be in the meetings about the eurozone because


he didn't want Britain to contribute. Then two weeks ago, he


was knocking on the door and insisting that Britain be present.


It was George Osborne, the Chancellor of the Exchequer who in


July said there was an inexorable logic towards a single fiscal area,


as well as a Single Currency. The Government's been asleep at the


switch since then when they should have recognised that if that was to


be the outcome, that should represent a real threat. Tell us


what you would have done, if Ed Miliband had been there? Difference


both in approach and what we'd be advocating. Firstly, the approach.


I travelled with Gordon Brown ahead of the G20 in 2008 to South America.


He literally toured the world trying to build consensus for what


then became the agreement that got us through that phase of the crisis


and I think there are genuine differences in terms of the level


of engagement in what we have seen from David Cameron and George


Osborne in recent months. What should they have been saying? We


need a balanced approach that recognises the importance of


dealing with the deficit but also with growth. One of the reasons


Greece is in the crisis afflicting it at the moment is the absence of


growth. In that sense, I didn't hear the British Prime Minister


talking about the centrality of growth to deficit reduction, as he


hasn't done here in Britain, also internationally. That's very long-


term thinking, isn't it? This is a crisis that's happening now, the


fire is now. You may have a situation where Greece falls out of


the eurozone? Well, for the first time, that was speculated upon at


the summit. We've got a huge interest in making sure that the


eurozone manages to find a way forward. I worry about the approach


that's been taken on the Conservative benches. There is no


strategy. We have a huge interest in the European Central Bank


recognising its responsibility. think they've been asleep at the


wheel? It's been disappointing. There hasn't been the political


support for the ECB. Do you want to IMF to take over that? I don't see


there being a contribution between the ECB and the IMF recognising its


responsibilities. The way the Bank of England is for sterling and the


way the Federal Reserve is for the US Dollar, so the ECB needs to


deliver more fire power. David Cameron himself talked about a big


bazooka from Europe but we haven't seen that action in recent weeks.


That shouldn't be at the cost of the IMF being willing to act if


necessary in the future. You don't mind in principle British money


going into the IMF, then them putting that money the way of


Greece or shoring up the pigs, as they are called? We've always


supported the IMF as the UK. What is that money used for, we, as the


Labour Party don't want the IMF's recapitalisation to become a


pretext or excuse for the ECB not recognising its responsibilities.


Both institutions have responsibilities, the IMF and ECB,


and both may be required. strikes on the 30th November now,


public sector pensions, the key theme. Teach efrs and Local


Government and everything else. You think that the people drawing the


public sector pension who is're angry about the changes deserve


more than they are getting. Is that right? There needs to be further


negotiations. None of us want to see a strike. There has been


thrand's been Government compromise? Maybe something you can


ask the Chief Secretary -- there's been Government compromise. We have


seen, as a welcome step forward, there needs to be compromise by


both sides. The public sector Trade Unions need to recognise that we


need to work longer and contribute more in the future. There are


specific details, on the other hand, to continue to be needed to be


looked at. Look at the position of a part-time nurse earning �15,000


or �16,000, the increase of contributions means she would lose


�900 a year. The changes they've proposed, as we understand it, will


impact on the poorest people in the public sector, many of them women,


much more impactfully than on others. But you don't think the


strike should go ahead? We want the negotiations to be taken forward.


There needs to be further compromise on both sides and let's


hope that if there is serious negotiations, we can avoid a strike.


Your colleague John Hutton says it's hard to imagine a better deal?


Let's see what the negotiations yield. One more for you, slightly


personal. The whole business at St Paul's which we were talking about


in the papers review with Joan and Margot. They shut the doors and


your father was a pastor? Yes. Grandfather as well? Yes. Did you


I think their job is to be a prophetic voice on issues of public


morality. I think as Ed Miliband said in the paper today, what the


press -- protesters are doing is talking about the rules by which


society is run. Righteousness, and the relationship between the top of


society and the rest of us is pretty broken at the moment and


needs to be healed. So those protesters at the moment are in


some way and iteration of your party at the moment? They have a


range of demands but they are speaking of the general anger which


I sensed in my own constituency and across the country, and it is a


distraction to speak about the protesters. The issues they speak


of our much profound and much more widely held. Thank you.


When it comes to movie blockbusters, there are few actors with the box-


office firepower of Johnny Depp. Who is the biggest movie star in


the world right now? To that question there is an answer, Johnny


Depp is the hottest property in Hollywood even if he does live in


France. His new movie, the The Rum Diary, was found in a boxed in


Hunter S Thompson's basement and he decided to make a movie of it. I


asked him if his character in the movie is an attempt to portray the


journalist as a hero. I think that journalists can be a hero, it just


depends on the road they take. Hunter's Road was a long one and he


became a voice for the people. He was a very moral guy. In this


country, there is a crisis over journalism at the moment and


journalists have never had a poor reputation. I guess you have heard


about the phone hacking scandal, what are your thoughts on that?


is as low as you could possibly get. To get into something as devious as


that, as horrific as tapping into someone's phone, hacking into


someone's personal life, private life and then selling it, it is as


low as it gets. Watching you in the new film, I was thinking are you


betraying the journalist as a hero because you think journalists are,


or are you showing us what we should be? A journalist as observer


and documenting the moment, and that is what Hunter S Thompson did,


especially back then when he was very young and trying to find his


voice, trying to find that out lead for the rage, where it was going to


go. It came to about 1966 when the Hell's Angels came around, it


started to take another shape, and therefore gonzo journalism, putting


himself into the middle of the situation. It is interesting to


hear stories about you staying with him. The book for this film you


found in a box, didn't you? Yes, we were looking for the manuscript of


Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and I found another one. Opened a taut,


and wrapped in a rubber band was The Rum Diary.


I love this car. Did he give it to you? I wish. You want a little bet?


A bet about what? That you scream before I do. In relation to what?


How fast does it go? And so we began to read it. I don't think he


had taken a look at it since he had dumped it in there in 1960. We


started reading it, it was very good. It had a nice bite to it, and


a good narrative. It was his only novel, so he decided we should make


it into a film. I said maybe publish its first, and that is what


he did, he published it for the following year. All these years


Your career has got two tracks, in a way, because you have Pirates of


the Caribbean and that franchise, and you are by all accounts the


biggest star in the world. I don't mean to embarrass you, but 75


million in the last year it is a lot. You use big box-office movies


to fund films like this, more independent. Definitely, it is part


of the balance you have to keep. The fact that Pirates of the


Caribbean happened for me, and Alice in Wonderland, and things


like that, it was much of a fluke or as surprising to me as anyone. I


never expected any of that, so I always try to maintain some sort of


balance within characters. You go outside a bit here, then you take a


right turn over here. In terms of the audience, to keep them, well,


to never bore them. Is that have the film industry works now, that


instead of the big companies making a variety of films, they basically


make the big box-office films and then it is down to people like you


to give us the more interesting films? Studios are looking to spend


money to make money. That is the crux of it, and it is a gamble


every time out of the gate. You roll the dice, but when studios


have had successful franchises such as Harry Potter or Pirates, they


will be much more interested in doing that all over again, how to


recreate that. But, I think for an actor, you want to be able to stay


with the people. Just to ask you about Ricky Gervais, who I know you


know, and he made a joke about you at the Golden globes. What was it,


two dimensional? He was probably right by the way. The film was The


Tourist, but you have now appeared in his new TV show, Life's Too


Short, where you are basically given a dressing-down.


Have you met before? This is Stephen. Nice to meet you.


Ricky. I actually remember him from the Golden Globes. Did you think


long about that? No, I knew it had to be done, immediately. Obviously


he is very funny, and can be very self-deprecating. It was a great


opportunity to sort of get in there and have a go at him, and just have


a ball. And we laughed, you know, there was probably more footage


they couldn't use than they probably did.


Do you know who my new leading lady is in the new film? The Tim Burton


film? Yes. Helena Bonham Carter? How did you know? Star Up In the


dark. She thinks you are an idiot. In Vanity Fair, he was making the


point that you have made a colossal amount of money, and why do you


work so hard? You said it was the kids. Have you got to the point


where they have enough? What is the reason? A enjoy the process. I


don't necessarily enjoy the things that go along with it. There is a


certain necessary evil with regard to the work, I mean terms that I


don't quite understand or can't quite come relate to my name, terms


like celebrity or fame I find very uncomfortable, but when I say it is


for the kids, yes, you want to do something for them. Not necessarily


the money for them, the work is for the kids. I want to, when I become


smoke one day, I want to have done something that lake can be


potentially proud of, or at least a body of work. Thank you for


speaking to us this morning. Thank you, I appreciated.


David Cameron has been warning in stark terms that the British


economy is getting worse every day the eurozone crisis drags on, but


what impact is the international chaos having at home? There are


concerns that growth has stalled, and I am joined by Danny Alexander,


chief secretary to the Treasury. You must be a worried man?


course the situation in the eurozone is very serious. 3 million


jobs in the UK depend on our trade with the European Union, and those


people and businesses are affected by the uncertainty. Equally, having


a resolution to the crisis is in a sense the most important thing that


can happen for the UK economy this autumn. Positive steps were made at


the G20 summit. So it was not the do-nothing summit? That is totally


wrong. There are a lot of positive things. Activity or action?


found a commitment to increasing the IMF's Resources in order to


ensure there is a global firepower, if you like, to deal with the


crisis at a global level. The week before you saw a commitment to a


much greater euro-zone fund of one trillion euros. The details have to


be fleshed out a. You spend your whole day with numbers because we


run out of money, as someone famously said, so the IMF gets 10


billion a year from us, it went up to 20 billion as a result of the


vote in June, and now it is going up further by how much? We have two


sort of money we give to the IMF, the 20 billion ceiling for each.


There is a maximum of 40 billion we can make available. Currently only


about 5 billion of that is in use so we have the capacity to go up to


that ceiling. Without a vote in Parliament? Yes, Parliament has


already voted for the additional 20 billion of new arrangements to


borrow. For so we are currently putting 5 billion or 20 billion?


The 5 billion is a combination of those two things. We can go up to a


ceiling of 20 billion and it works as a contingent liability, in other


words we are not handing over cash, it is a promise to pay to back up


the IMF's lending if things go wrong. No government has ever lost


money in terms of the resources made available to the IMF. We


should be supporting it, that is why it was wrong to vote against


making additional resources We didn't go into the euro and this


is a problem for countries in the euro. Once you extend credit to the


IMF, it goes to Greece? No country in the global economy can be an


island. We are in a hugely interdependent world. We have to


play a role as a global leader as one of the largest economies in the


world. We set up the IMF precisely to ensure that there was a


mechanism for supporting... But to be clear, you are happy with this


money we give to the IMF going to Greece? You are happy with that?


am. There's already been agreed. The plan for Greece involves


commitments from the IMF, separate commitments from the eurozone, the


two organisations are working together. There are uncertainties


about Greece which have to be resolved. Let me ask you, on that


score, are you in the Treasury planning for Greece's exit from the


euro? We have contingency plans for all sorts of eventualities. Are you


planning for that? That seems like the less likely outcome of the


Greece situation. We have seen huge political uncertainty, the


referendum plan has been dropped, the Prime Minister's had his vote


of confidence and we need to see the Greek government exercise its


responsibilities to deliver the plan that they've set out and upon


which we, through the IMF and eurozone has promised to make


resources available. You say it's the least likely option, a lot of


people think it will have to go back to the drachma. I'm not going


to get into eventualities and hypotheticals that we have plans


for. The most important thing we can do as a responsible global lead


ser to work alongside the Americans, Chinese and others to put maximum


pressure on the eurozone to make Greece take responsibility for


their problems and ensure we take our responsibilities to sit


alongside the bazooka. It's a very expensive BA zoo and and it was


said, why join the euro when it's breaking up -- bazooka. It was a


misunderstanding of what he was saying, he was using a phrase used


for him by a backbencher. That's the least likely option. We in the


UK need to look at the eurozone and see the very, very strong political


commitment there is from those countries to keep the European


Single Currency together. The developments that they are making


in terms of having closer integration on the fiscal side. One


thing that we have to do is make sure that the role that we have,


the role that the other countries outside the euro have is protected


within that European decision- making so we continue to shape the


growth agenda, which is in our demand in terms of deregulating at


European level. That's a British agenda for leading Europe. People


watching will be thinking, why would anyone in this country have


ever suggested we go into the euro. So maybe you can tell us why you


did? I argued, along with others on a cross party basis in the Britain


and Europe campaign that we should join the euro in the economic


conditions were right. What I would say is that the extra flexibilities


we have being outside the Single Currency are something that's been


a strength to us. You weren't wanting us to be in it, you were


speak fog the organisation called Britain Ahead in Europe. You argued


for it? I very much believe that Britain's vocation is, as a


European country, that our trade, that our business needs depend on


the links to Europe. In relation to the euro though, I argued that


Britain should join only if the economic conditions were right,


they were found not to be, at least in part because of the way the euro


developed in its early days. As a result, we have greater flexibility,


not least the devaluation the found has seen, to help us through the


crisis. The effects on us, some say it could set us back six years,


could half the value of shares, a real horror show? I don't endorse


those figures. Many British businesses are seeking to trade and


export to the eurozone. Positively, resolving the crisis would be the


biggest boost we could see to the British economy at a time we we


face ourselves a long, slow road to recover rifplt I think if anything


this crisis in the eurozone could remind people of the fact that what


Britain did when the coalition Government came into power, the


Liberal Democrats helped negotiate that agreement. We set out a plan


from the beginning to take control of our own circumstances, we need


other countries to do the same. are making an announcement about


house building and infrastructure. Tell us what that is? I'll announce


the half billion pound growing places fund, setting out the


details of how much each area will get. It's to help people who are


perhaps wanting to build houses in a local area but need a link road


built or the land needs to be decontaminated or flood defences


need be put in place. We are making available half a billion to pay for


that upfront so the developer can invest billions more in building


houses, in employing people and getting Britain building again and


then when the development is built out and sold, they can repay the


money and it can be used again. Isn't that rather small beer when


you consider what's needed in this country right now and your critics


will say too little too late? are many other things we are doing.


The regional growth found is supporting businesses up and down


the country. The steps on taxation on deregulation are supporting


businesses too. We have a specific problem in communities which is


there are plans for building houses, they have the things in place, but


we can unlock development and unlock tens of thousands of jobs by


helping them. I mentioned to Danny Alexander about the strikes and the


unions are hopping mad -- Douglas Alexander. The Independent carries


a story saying you would like to go ahead, the Prime Minister would


like them to go ahead because it will destroy their case. Where are


you in that argument? I don't want the strikes to go ahd. The


Government's been negotiating hard for the last eight months with the


Trade Unions. -- ahead. We made a significant offer to public sector


workers earlier this week. I set it out to the House of Commons in


terms of the more generous payments we were willing to offer.


backed down some people said? this is the discussion and I set


aside what funds I think are appropriate to make sure we both


protect the taxpayer and also get the quality of public sector


pensions that people want to see. Look, I think in a sense the most


important people here are not the Trade Union leaders, they're the


individual nurses, teachers, civil servants. This week and over the


next few weeks, we'll communicate directly to 2.5 million public


servants to explain to them directly what it is the


Government's offering. I think in a sense, in those people's hands is


the decision whether or not to strike, in those people's hands is


tin influence on the unions and I think when people go to the


Treasury website, see what is set out, they'll see this is a generous,


positive offer that will protect the value of public service


pensions for 25 years to come. It's a prize worth having. Sour going


over the heeds with the unions? Most moderate unions want agreement


but some seem desperate and hell bent, if you like, on strike action.


What we need to make sure is the interests of public servants aren't


set aside in the interests of Trade Union leaders who want to go on


strike. Danny Alexander, thank you for now. No more bodies have been


found overnight at the scene of the M5 crash near Taunton. Seven people


were confirmed dead yesterday and more than 50 injured.


Investigations are under way to find out what caused the multiple


pipup, one of Britain's worst. The Greek president will meet the


country's main opposition leader today to discuss efforts to form a


new coalition government. Yesterday, he held talks with the Prime


Minister, George Papandreou, opposition parties are calling for


early elections, something Mr Papandreou says would derail


efforts to solve Greece's financial crisis and stop it spreading across


the eurozone. That is it from me. The next news


is at midday on BBC One. Back to Jeremy in a moment, but first a


look at what is coming up after the programme:


Today on Sunday morning live. Is Britain full up or do we still have


room for more immigrants? As the Church of England forgotten its


Christian roots in favour of power and snun Islamic extremists want to


disrupt Armistice Day when we remember our dead. Is that what


these soldiers fought for? See you at Ten.


Danny Alexander is still here and Joan Bakewell rejoins us. Let's


talk about St Paul's and the morality issue around that?


very interested in what seems to be a revival of morality in public


life and the feeling that many people have, inclouding the church,


the Archbishop of Canterbury, that public life isn't governed by the


moral issues in the way that it perhaps once was and that things


like the discrepancy between the highly paid and the lowliest is out


of hand. What do you think about that? Well, there's clearly a very


strong sense of that. Politicians who talk about morality sometimes


get into trouble but I think it's very important that there is a


strong sense that we are going the right things here and that we do


get away from our economic culture that's been based on excess, which


it Abu Hamza has been for the last 20 or 30iers. I think the peeve


Government had an opportunity to sort that out, it didn't take it,


we are taking steps such as new taxes on the bankers, such as the


regular... In effect, it's been proved in the headlines? No, that's


not the case, we are raising an extra �10 billion over the next


four years... But the overall impact of your policys is to damage


the lowliest in society, lowliest being a religious word, you know,


but the widows, orphans, the single mothers, the people who have their


care cut? I don't accept that characterisation of what we are


doing. What I would say is that in a sense if what you want to see is


the country doing to t right thing and sorting out our finances too...


I want to get back to St Paul's, we could do the whole of economic


policy but we need to talk about St Paul's. You see the tents and you


are a Lib Dem. Doesn't mean I live in a tent. Well I wondered if you


might say in your wisdom in spirit that you feel the same unease about


what they are protesting about? think there are some issues they're


drawing attention to which are important, as Douglas Alexander


said, there are a whole range of demands. Do you feel it's about


capitalism? Capitalism's built up our economies around the world over


many decades so I don't feel unease about capitalism. What I do feel


unease about and things as a Government we have been acting on


is the lack of regulation and control over the City of London,


the lack of inability to ensure that we, as taxpayers, don't have


to bail out the bankers every time they get things wrong. Those are


the things we are trying to change. Let's have more control and restore


legislation. This's exactly what this Government is doing. Thank you


very much. That is it for today. Andrew is back next Sunday at 9


with a special edition of the programme for Remembrance Day. And,


by the way, this coming week leading up to Remembrance Day on my


Radio Two programme, we are featuring the stories of mother


hos've lost their sons in armed combat and who remember them


through the music they loved. Guests will include the Chief of


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