27/11/2011 The Andrew Marr Show


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 27/11/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!



Good morning, some excellent news in the paper - conditions are so


good, food is so plentiful, that the British are having larger


families and looking ahead with increased optimism. Sadly this only


refers to British bluetits who have been loving this remarkably warm


autumn. If only this week's autumn statement really was what it


sounded like - "season of mists and mellow fruitfulness", announces


Chancellor "butterflies surprisingly plentiful" - but it


ain't and anyone of a sensitive disposition should probably skip


the newspaper front pages, where most economics editors explain with


And joining me today for our review of the Sunday newspapers are the


other Blair, Lord Blair, former head of the Metropolitan police,


the columnist and broadcaster Mary Ann Sieghart, and Max Mosley, who


was among the first witnesses at the Leveson inquiry on press


standards. The chancellor, George Osborne, makes his speech in


parliament, second only to the Budget each year, against a


thunderous, stormy sky. Bad news is expected on growth, jobs, how long


it will take to pay off the deficit. And with the entire Eurozone - our


biggest market - making splintering and cracking noises, the focus has


turned to urgent plans to keep our economy moving, with announcements


expected on everything from rail fares and bank taxes to help for


small firms. The chancellor George Osborne joins us to explain more,


ahead of what - with, let's remember, a national public sector


strike called for Wednesday - is beginning to feel like the most


important week for the Coalition government since it was formed.


We're also joined by Mr Osborne's number one critic, Ed Balls, who


has consistently called for less in the way of cuts, more borrowing, a


Plan B for growth. But would Labour really do things so very


differently? Wouldn't they be making the same kinds of unpopular


cuts as the coalition? Also this morning, we'll be going back to an


earlier period of austerity Britain, as the Oscar-winning actress Rachel


Weisz discusses her latest film, Terence Rattigan's The Deep Blue


Sea. That might cheer you up. If it doesn't, we'll have some soothing


music, played by the bright new talent of the violin, Charlie Siem.


All that's coming up, but first over to Susanna Reid with the news.


Good morning. A rescue operation is under way to try to find six people


missing after a cargo vessel got into trouble off the north coast of


Wales. Eight people were on board the ship, which is thought to have


suffered from a cracked hole. The ship was grounded off the coast of


Cornwall last year. Details are emerging of a package


of measures which the Government hopes will boost growth, and ease


the pressure on family budgets, amid fears that the economy will


deteriorate next year. The measures, to be outlined by the Chancellor in


his autumn statement this week, are expected to include more spending


on infrastructure, a possible freeze in petrol duty, and lower


increases in rail fares. Billions of pounds will also be made


available in government-backed loans to small and medium sized


enterprises, as our business correspondent Joe Lynam reports.


Britain may not be in the eurozone but the crisis which is swallowing


up the Continent threatens to engulf the UK as well. The


government is worried that bank lending could seize up entirely. To


prevent that from happening to ordinary British companies, the


coalition is to set up ambitious lending programmes to make sure the


engines of growth do not stall. Known as credit easing, the first


scheme would see the government using guarantees to reduce the cost


of credit firms turning over less than �50 million. The second


programme would see the government taking a stake in investment forms


which provide credit or loans to medium-sized companies, and thirdly


hoping to create an alternative to traditional bank loans, by


encouraging companies to sell bondss to the markets. The


Chancellor says that none of the credit easing schemes will drive up


the already massive deficit. A further 100,000 jobs could be cut


in the public sector, according to an independent forecasting group.


The Ernst and Young Item Club says the Government has been too


conservative in its estimate of the number of job losses required to


meet spending cuts. It expects around half a million public sector


jobs to be lost in the next five years, instead of the 400,000,


predicted in March. Pakistan has shut down NATO supply


routes into Afghanistan after NATO helicopters and fighter jets


attacked two military outposts on Pakistani territory. 25 Pakistani


soldiers were killed in the incident, in Mohmand near the


border with Afghanistan. The US has apologised to Pakistan for the


attack. Police investigating the fatal


mugging of an elderly woman in Greater Manchester are now treating


her death as murder. 79-year-old Nellie Geraghty was found with


serious head injuries in an alleyway in Oldham. She'd


apparently tried to resist robbers, who stole a bag containing cash and


the ashes of her late husband. That's all from me for the moment.


I'll be back with the headlines just before ten.


Thank you, Susanna. I did mention the front pages are pretty gloomy


this morning. Here is a flavour on the Observer. The Sunday Times has


a great headline - Britain faces six years of misery. Lucky us. The


Express - starving Britain, saying thousands of farmers are relying on


food parcels and even road kill. The Independent on Sunday has


people trying to leave Britain for Mars. Ed Balls - I have sympathy


for the strikers. A strange front page here - the Mail on Sunday, Lib


Dems: we should be more like Oxfam, suggesting many would be queuing up


to give old clothes to the Liberal Democrats. Why?! Mary Ann Sieghart


and Max Mosley, thank you for joining us. You're starting with


the Autumn Statement. The big political story Of the Week are the


Autumn Statement and the public sector strike the day after. It is


a classic in politics. One news story which you are completely in


control of, another which you have no control over whatsoever. In some


senses, it is quite good for him because he can get the good news


stories out in advance so we have the Sunday Telegraph talking about


help for the squeezed middle, lower fuel duty rises, and lower train


fare rises. On Wednesday itself, all the bad figures are coming out,


and that is on unemployment, lack of growth, and the fact they


haven't managed to cut the deficit as fast as they had hoped to. There


is one story about support and opposition for the strike. 43% are


opposing it, only 39% supporting it, but a plurality blame the


government rather than the unions for the strike, and 65% disapprove


of the way David Cameron has dealt with it. So the politics are still


pretty unclear. Lord Blair, you have a story in the Independent.


Yes, and this leaves on from that, because it is the way it fits into


the public mood. Most of it is about not really wanting the


strikes, but the last two paragraphs say the problem with the


government's response is they have failed to convince many people we


are genuinely all in this together so they should be doing things


about the bankers and the rich. Another of the big stories, Max


Mosley, was the one you were involved in in the Leveson Inquiry.


The slight backlash, some pupils saying it has been taken over by


celebrities. I don't know what you think about that. I don't think it


is true. The people who have really made the impression, they are the


ones who are illustrated what can happen to ordinary people. Then


there are other celebrities, and whoever you are, when people start


invading your private life it is intolerable. How do you define


celebrity? JK Rowling is a celebrity in the sense she is


famous, but she is famous for having written successful


children's books. When you sit and writer book for children, you don't


make a forced to -- a Faustian pact. She has not like Jordan selling


herself because of her celebrity. Do you think we are after tipping


point? I hope we are. The trouble is there have been a lot of so-


called tipping point over the last 20 years, when very little has


tipped. Diana, Princess of Wales, David Mellor, and not much has


changed. I think in this case it is the Milly Dowler moment that


changed the entire mood. I think people were seeing the phone


hacking as a kind of celebrity meets politicians discussion.


Suddenly, one Tuesday afternoon, that discovery changed everything.


I entirely agree. Until then, it was them, not us. Then, when the


Milly Dowler thing happened, people realised that could happen to


anybody in the country. One of the most disturbing things surely it is


the involvement of the police in a lot of these. Quite clearly,


relations between the tabloid press and the police have been far too


close. Money has been changing hands and story -- stories keep


appearing. You are right, it has been a far too close relationship.


I don't know about the money changing hands, I feel it is more


about influence and getting the police's position right. Clearly


there is skulduggery and that has got to be wiped out. The other


interesting thing is the way journalists are responding to this.


There are two moods. One of them is saying lot of us. This one - why I


am proud to be a British journalist - it has been a long time coming,


the admission that there are some very bad journalists, people who


have been behaving very badly, which must have been known about.


To be fair, some people wrote about this before the Leveson Inquiry.


What was very noticeable was the Guardian was going on and on, then


we had the New York Times, and the rest of the paper and these


wonderful up standing journalists did not write one word about it. It


was kept secret until it became impossible to keep the lid on it.


Lord Blair mentioned the word skulduggery, and there is a


fascinating piece of skulduggery surrounding Dominique Strauss-Kahn,


and how much of this was a set-up. This is fascinating because I am


not a believer in conspiracies, but here there are so many elements, so


many things that happened, that when you read the story you think


it is just possible this whole thing was set up. There is an


allegation for instance that staff in the hotel were seen during a


victory dance once Dominique Strauss-Kahn was grabbed and


arrested for this alleged assault. Then, allegedly, the chambermaid


when repeatedly into the room of a mysterious man who has not been


identified during the period between the incident and the arrest.


There are endless elements. I think it might be the Mail on Sunday that


suggested this might have all been set up by Nicolas Sarkozy's people.


If that is the case, what a wonderful story that would be.


would be an amazing story but I think we should pause for a moment.


I seem to remember there was a victim with serious injuries


floating around in the middle of this, so whatever happened, it is


still a great difficulty with Strauss-Kahn in terms of who he is


and how he behaves. He was unwise, to say the least. There does seem


to have been a pattern of behaviour as well. Let's stay abroad because


one of the other stories is Egypt, where things are falling apart at a


terrible rate. This is, to me, the biggest story in the world at the


moment. In terms of what has happened this year, the Arab Spring


is the greatest story, and Egypt is the most significant of those


countries. We have a position here which is very well put in the


Observer again. The most difficult one is at the bottom, there is a


phrase that there is an alliance between the Muslim Brotherhood and


the generals which has put the revolution in peril. They are


suggesting that the army moving towards elections has been


supported by the Muslim Brotherhood against the secular do, which was


so significant in Tahrir Square. This might seem trivial against the


Arab Spring, but this is about parking. London is in uproar,


because this is not just a London story, but in London Westminster


City Council has decided that in the evenings and on Sundays they


are going to carry on charging for parking until 1 am and are not


going to allow you to park on a single yellow line. This is


disastrous for people working in the West End. If you are not a


highly -- if you are a highly paid -- not a highly paid waitress, you


can park your car and drive home safely, but now you cannot do it.


But for those of us who want to go to the West End to see a film or


have a play or have supper, we cannot afford to do it. What is so


frustrating is there is nothing we can do about it because we do not


have votes in Westminster. Local democracy? Local democracy does not


even work, because the people who live in the borough of Westminster


will not mind because they have parking permits. The businesses


will mind, but they have a -- do not have a vote and those of us


outside do not have a vote. To move from people worried about parking


to people who drive a little faster. The last day of Formula One. The


headline about how the season has gone? The number one thing is that


nobody gets killed or hurt and that has happened. A boring championship


because Sebastian Vettel was so much better than everyone but on


the other hand there have been many exciting races and one cannot ask


for more. The bottom line is, did anyone get hurt? It is a dangerous


sport. Nobody did, so no one was hurt in the making of this


newspaper review either. Thank you all very much. Now to the weather -


it's been very windy, the leaves are coming off the trees, and in


the North of Scotland gale force winds overnight. In the south,


however, we're still waiting for the cold to set in. Can this mild


autumn go on much longer? Bluetits are glued to their screens waiting


for the answer, so over to Darren It has been very windy and I think


the winds have peaked and it improves through the day with more


sunshine coming through and the winds easing off. Still blowing a


gale in Scotland and the showers will retreat to the West with some


snow over the mountain. The odd shower for Northern Ireland but for


England and Wales it dries up and more showers coming through. It


will probably feel colder today, particularly across the North. This


evening, with the clear skies and light winds, the temperatures will


fall away and for Northern Ireland and western Scotland a freshening


breeze would increase the cloud but away from here it will be cold and


there will be a widespread ground frost across England and Wales and


in rural areas temperatures will be close to freezing. The story


through tomorrow is one of a freshening up south wind which will


increase the cloud and bring patchy rain to the west, whereas East it


is likely to be dry and there will be sunshine, but after a chilly


start the temperatures will struggle to double figures.


Temperatures will be nearer 12 degrees. For any blue tits watching,


nothing particularly cold over the weekend, but it does stay unsettled


and we will have showers or longer spells of rain and it looks like it


spells of rain and it looks like it For months, the Shadow Chancellor,


Ed Balls has been telling the government it needs a plan B, a


plan for growth. Well, during the week, we had a flurry of


announcements - on house-building, tackling youth unemployment and so


on - so does he see plan B taking shape in front of his eyes? If


Labour were in government, it would presumably be cutting too by now -


and having to deal with the backwash from the eurozone crisis.


So what would Ed Balls really do differently? He's with me now.


Welcome. Before we turn to the Autumn Statement, let's talk about


Wednesday's strike. Is this something that you would urge the


unions to call off even at this late stage? I would urge the


government to get round the table and give some ground and sort this


out. I don't think anybody wants to strike on Wednesday and will be


hugely disruptive for families but I also have sympathy for the low-


paid public workers and we are talking about dinner ladies,


teaching assistants who are paid under �15,000 per year who are


being hit hard. The government has to give ground and so do the Joep -


- unions. There has to be two sides to sort this out. The two is


probably fair to say you have more influence on the unions than the


government, so would you learned -- urged the union leaders to give


enough ground and perhaps delay this or call it off? I would urge


the union leaders to give ground and talk. I think Ed Miliband was


right to say it was the wrong thing to do to strike in June when the


government were talking, but they made clear two weeks ago they would


give no more ground. Even John Hutton said it was risky, the 3%


contribution rise, and also deeply unfair. And in the circumstances


there are lots of low-paid workers, 750,000 low-paid workers, paid


under �15,000, predominantly women, who will be retired on pensions of


�4,000 per year and will be hit really hard. I think people do not


think it is fair. I have to say, David Cameron and George Osborne


have always been clear in their minds that they wanted this


confrontation. But both sides are quite close to agreement in


different areas. Their unions and employers and different government


departments coming-together and a lot of people would say it is


inevitable, even a Labour government would have to deal with


the cost of public sector pensions. It was never going to be easy, it


was always going to be painful, but there has to be a compromise and


striking does not help. A Labour Prime Minister would have had to


sit down and negotiate. The trade unions would have had to give some


ground. But David Talib -- David Cameron said to the Daily Telegraph


he was privately delighted that the trade unions had walked into his


trap. No Labour prime minister in the last 13 years sat around saying


he was delighted about private -- confrontations and strikes. It was


deeply irresponsible and the disruption on Wednesday to families


and businesses could be avoided if David Cameron decided he wanted to


act, and he hasn't. It is his intransigence and, I think, his


opposition to progress which is causing the problem. Let me put a


proposition to you about the Autumn Statement and the argument around


it, which is that if you look at a lot of the things the government


has recently announced and looks likely to announce this week, they


are not so different from the kind of things that Labour would be


doing when it comes to youth unemployment, and try to get some


money into struggling small and medium-sized businesses, when it


comes to helping commuters. And when people look at the exchanges


in the House of Commons, including between yourself and George Osborne


and there is all this shouting and finger stabbing, things are too


serious for that and it would be welcome to have the opposition say,


do you know what, or all of these measures, we agree. These are the


kind of things to do and we will get them through the House of


Commons quickly. I would love a consensus on the way forward with


George Osborne, David Cameron and the Liberal Democrats, and it would


be better for Britain. You are completely right. Nick Clegg is now


announcing the reintroduction of the future jobs funded or smaller


form it should not have been abolished in the first place. And


they are saying put back 10 % of the housing spending they cut,


saying put back some infrastructure, do more for small firm lending,


building on something Labour did which they should have done Allah -


- earlier. But fundamentally there was a big day issue, -- Bedi issue.


We disagreed months ago and they said if we went fast on deficit


reduction, �40 billion of cuts, the fastest cuts of any country, they


said it would lead to private sector jobs, growth, confidence,


falling unemployment and the hasn't worked. We are in economic troubles


at the moment. If their deficit reduction system has not worked,


why is it that the British government is able to borrow money


at 4.5 % below what it is costing the Spanish and the Italians and


others. Britain has a triple-A credit rating. And our


international reputation seems to be pretty strong and the government


will say it is down to their deficit reduction plan and sticking


to it. They would, and that is the fantasy they have peddled for the


last year. Taking the points in turn, first of all, they say we


have low interest rates because of deficit reduction but it is


fundamentally because we are not in the euro and have low growth. In


America, America had their credit rating downgraded and their


interest weights did not go up. They say they have credibility with


the financial markets because they have the deficit reduction plan,


but you talk about me advocating more borrowing, and George Osborne


will borrow billions and billions of pounds more than he planned


because unemployment is going up because the plan has failed.


truth is that the difference between the is now infinitesimally


small. It is a third of 1%. If you are still sticking to the original


Alastair Darling plan, and you suggest you laugh? Yes, of course.


So the difference between what you're doing is not enormous. It is


not the difference between slump and prosperity. I am sticking to


the plan in the sense that we would have done that plan in government.


George Osborne didn't. He ripped it up and went �40 billion faster,


including VAT rise which hasn't worked and he is trying to blame


the snow or the euro and it was his decisions that slowed down the


recovery. The IMF said a few months ago, who George Osborne used to


boast about supporting him, they said if the economy undershot the


growth plans and it wasn't growing, the sensible, balanced thing to do


was to slow the pace of cuts and reversed and do some tax cuts to


get the economy moving, boost the growth in jobs and get unemployment


and the deficit down. The IMF is right and dieback them in their


proposals. George Osborne doesn't. If he moves to a balanced but we


will support him. If he doesn't, I am deeply fearful about what this


will mean for the growth, jobs and deficit reduction. What you would


do that is different is that she would reverse the VAT rise -- you


would reverse -- and reverse the cuts? That cost you a lot of money


straight away, so where do you find it? It is a five-point plan. You


mentioned two elements, repeating the bank bonus tax for you to jobs,


but we would agree with the IMF. is said that you have spent nine


times the bank bonus tax on different projects.


Conservative Party say that, but it doesn't make it true. It is a lie.


The only proposal would have made to spend the bank bonus tax was for


use jobs, with a five-point plan which the IMF was saying that if


there was no growth we should slow the pace and move to a balanced


plan. George Osborne said it would lead to more borrowing and it would


be irresponsible. In the next five years, he will borrow, according to


his own forecasters, over �100 billion more than he planned. He is


borrowing for unemployment and failure. I say get the economy


moving, get some help for families and businesses, which will get


growth in jobs moving and get the deficit down. It is a very big


choice and it is not just trivia and inconsequential. Realistically,


you would both be borrowing a great deal and faced with the same


extremely difficult international situation and you would both have


economic plans for growth which are not the same, but they are not a


million miles apart. I just asked again whether the heat and


aggression between the parties at this time of national crisis is


appropriate? I think it is fundamentally necessary. When a


government is making a catastrophically wrong decision and


people are fearful and angry, the opposition has to stand up for the


alternative, as happened in 1929, 1930 and 1931 in a similar


situation after a financial crisis. I have been on this programme and


you have said to me that what I am proposing would be irresponsible.


You cannot now say it is the same as George Osborne's plans. There


was a big choice year ago. We were out on a limb in advocating a


different approach. Actually, increasingly, the IMF and business


organisations and Conservative MPs are saying that the George Osborne


and David Cameron plan has not worked. We need a different course.


So if we seek the credit easing plan for small companies that we


are reading that we will see, will you back that? That is presumably


something you would be pleased by. If there is a credit easing plan,


that is a good thing. If they reintroduce a future jobs fund,


good. If they do not go ahead with the freeze in fuel prices in


January, that is good. They should delay temporary cut in VAT. If they


do more to get down child poverty, we will support that. We will look


at the details, because I don't know how it will work yet. But it


is very similar to the small firms guarantee scheme which had been


around for years. The issue is, why he's our economy not growing? Why


are firms not borrowing? Why is the economy slumping? Because the


fundamental strategy is not working. George Osborne will want to placate


here and push this aside on the bigger issue he is totally in


denial and until he gets his head out of the sand and sees that it is


failing. His head will be out of One of Britain's finest playwrights,


Terence Rattigan, was out of vogue for decades but in this, his


centenary, Rattigan's work is back with a vengeance. His masterpiece,


The Deep Blue Sea, has been filmed by Terence Davies and stars the


Oscar-winning actress Rachel Weisz. She plays a judge's wife in torpid


1950s London who breaks free from her marriage with tragic


consequences. Weisz is on a peak professionally and personally right


now. She's shooting the next Jason Bourne action thriller, while


enjoying domestic life with new husband James Bond, or Daniel Craig,


as he's also known. When I met her this week, Rachel Weisz told me


about working with Terence Davies, and his style of directing. There


is a certain feeling of repression and that comes from having to


remain within Terence Davies' frame, because it will not follow you


everywhere. I have been shooting the Bourne films, and the camera


moves a lot, you can move everywhere and the camera will


follow you so you have 2011 freedom. Tell me about your character,


Hester. She is very sophisticated and kind, but her marriage is very


boring. A occasionally play a game of


canasta. That is boring, I am into sport. I have always thought of


sport as one of the more pointless human activities. That was almost


offensive. At that point in the 50s, Terence


has told me people simply did not get divorced, no one got divorced.


Nothing could be done. He said the only people who got divorced were


movie-star has, but they were not people, they were Demi gods at that


time. Elizabeth Taylor got divorced but no one did, so you just stayed


in your marriage. My character meets a younger man, and ex-RAF


pilot. He has been emotionally damaged by his experiences in the


war, he is unreliable but she falls head over heels in love with him.


Freddie, darling, would you come home with me, please? No, I will


not. You will start talking and bleeding. No, I won't. -- talking


and pleading. I won't even talk if you don't want me to. Trust me, I


swear. She leaves this safe and


comfortable marriage for him. At that time it was a shocking thing


to do. She moves out of her home in a bedsit in Ladbroke Grove. A am


not giving anything away to tell you that she tries to kill herself,


because that is how the film starts. It is an eye-opener. You work in


Streetcar Named Desire, and there are obvious similarities, breaks


throughs in society, and I wonder having done a film like this if you


still have ambitions to go back and do some big theatre roles. I would


love to. It's funny you mention, because I am not clear about the


connections between Terence Rattigan and Terence Davies, but


the characters felt like cousins of each other. When I read about


Hester, I thought this is Blanche's English cousin. They are trying to


find their place in the world at a time when the roles they were


allowed to fit into were very limited to them. The biggest


breakthrough was the constant Gardner, that was the Oscar moment.


A lot of people have said it is a game Changer, something that allows


you a bigger stage to play on, in terms of the Rolls you can take


afterwards. Is that true? Yes, definitely. It means more


interesting directors of the you more interesting script and you


have to audition less often. It does change your career and


visibility, Forshaw. Everybody in the movie business is of huge


interest to millions out there, and yet you are human beings come you


have lives to live, which are private, and in this country we are


thrashing through what is appropriate, right and fair when it


comes to people in the public eye. What would your take be on that?


don't think it is a public interest, I don't think it is important for


people to know about what is in the rubbish bin of famous people. I


think people should be allowed their privacy. I have never


experienced it, so I have never had the direct experience of being


terrorised, as some celebrities seem to have been, but it seems


there should be some laws in place to stop it from happening, that is


my knee-jerk reaction. So you will be rooting for Hugh Grant, when he


is out fighting for this? I think so, I thought he was rather


impressive. He is certainly a man with a mission, isn't he? Yes, the


problem is I think people feel like celebrities lose the right to


privacy by being out there, but I understand the train of thought and


I don't agree with it. You have this great body of work now, which


you have won awards for, I suppose the next question is what is next?


What are your next ambitions? learn how to cook. Very


passionately, I really need to. The time is now. I know a few dishes.


Shrimp. Just trimmed by itself? With rice noodles. I would love to


be able to be creative in the kitchen. Will we be seeing you with


Mr Rachel Weisz in a film together, do you think? It is a lot of action


in one family now. We haven't got any plans to do that, but it would


be nice. Why not? Do you watch each other's films? Do you critique each


other? We have not caught up with all love each other's films. Some


would have been hard to not notice over the years, but yes. Thank you.


The actress Rachel Weisz. So Tuesday is the big day for the


Chancellor George Osborne - his autumn statement will give the


Commons all the figures for how the economy is performing, and the


outlook for the months and indeed years ahead. And as we've heard all


is not entirely tickety-boo. Mr Osborne is with me now. Good


morning. Can I start by looking at the deficit reduction plan, which


has been at the heart of your purpose in government? It is no


longer the case, is it, that you will be getting rid of the


structural deficit by the end of this Parliament? I would not say


that was the heart of our purpose in government. The heart of our


purpose is to get the economy moving. That is crucial, and to do


that you have to command confidence in the world in your ability to pay


your debts. We have got a deficit reduction plan that has brought us


record low interest rates, that has earned a good credit rating, and we


will be sticking to that plan because that is helping Britain


through the debt storm and lay the foundations of a stronger economy.


A you said you would get rid of the structural deficit by 2014. Is that


still possible? We set up two rules, one is that we


would get debt falling, one to get rid of the deficit. We will be


judged on that by the Independent office for budget responsibility


that we have set up. I am trying to calibrate how


serious the situation is that the country is facing, and I put it to


you that you will not managed to get rid of the structural deficit


by 2014. Unlike my predecessors, I have set up an independent body


that studies whether what I am saying is true, whether I have met


the targets I set out. I am confident we will meet the targets


we set out, the fiscal mandate, but the judgment about whether we have


or not is made independently of me by the Office for budget


responsibility so you don't get Chancellor's fiddling the figures.


I'm not suggesting you would. is different now. We have been


independent body. I am clear the government will do what it takes to


meet its fiscal mandate, to meet its debt target, that Britain will


show the world it can pay its way and keep those very low interest


rates, without which families watching this, businesses, would be


in real trouble. That body which you talked about, the Office for


budget responsibility, its figures will come out on Tuesday. To cut to


the chase, these figures will be pretty dreadful. If you look at


independent forecasters, they have clearly told us what we already


know, which is the economic situation facing many countries at


the moment is very difficult. It has clearly had an impact on the UK,


on our growth prospects, it is a challenge for public finances, but


frankly you could get any finance minister in the Western world to


sit here today and they would say something similar. What I am saying


is different, that our plan has commanded confidence. We are taking


Britain through a very difficult international situation, we are


also dealing with Britain's legacy. You have just had Ed Balls in this


chair, when he and his colleagues run up enormous debts, and paying


off that debt is of course a challenge. Do I wish we were not in


a situation where we had enormous debts were had inherited, we had


the eurozone creaking on our doorstep, of course! But I have got


to deal with this to keep Britain's safe in these difficult times.


Growth, which was predicted that 1.7% this coming year will be 1% or


below, isn't it? Independent forecasters have a range of


estimates around the number you have said. You are not going to say


they are wrong? If you want to see the Independent forecast, let's


wait until Tuesday. International bodies, forecasters in the private


sector, they are all saying the same thing which is the British


economy has slowed, by the way so has the American, German and French


economy. I am not using that as an excuse, I am using it as an


explanation for why this is a difficult time. What is almost


unique about the crisis we face at the moment is that we have a


slowing economy, a slowing world economy, we have this financial


crisis brewing in Europe, and at the heart of this is a concern


about the Government's ability to pay its debts. You can't just turn


on the borrowing taps because there is not necessarily anybody in the


world ready to lend to you. The British government will be selling


its debt over the next week, but we are not facing the same kind of


debt strike that you get in other European countries at the moment,


including some not in the euro, and that is because of our credibility.


In essence, what became called Plan A, if you got credibility the


private sector would produce the jobs, and the problem you have got


is the second bit is not happening - true? The first plan is all about


credibility on Britain's large budget deficit. Alongside that, we


have to lay the foundations of economic success in the future and


move away from the economy based on the success of one sector, the city


of London, to a more balanced economy where we invest in our


infrastructure, education, we have a welfare system where it pays to


work. We will be setting out these measures on Tuesday to get the


private sector enjoy a more competitive place so that British


companies can compete now against companies in China, America and


India as well as European counterparts. So there is a problem


with getting the private sector moving again and you will try to


address that this week. Can I go through some of the measures


discussed? Perhaps most importantly, this idea of credit easing or


getting cheaper money directly to small and medium-sized businesses


for whom that would be an enormous thing. As I understand it, the plan


is to underwrite cheaper money, which will then go via the banks to


The basic idea of the National Loan guarantee Scheme is we can borrow


money more cheaply so businesses can borrow more cheaply so we can


underwrite the loans we make two small businesses to cut the


interest rates that small businesses pay which will help with


cash flow and to retain their workforces and help them expand and


invest. We are using the fact we have earned the low interest rates


as a government with the difficult decisions we have taken on spending


to get lower interest rates for business is up and down the country.


How much money will be available in the scheme? We are making �20


billion available for the scheme but it sits within an envelope that


could be as large as �40 billion. These are guarantees. We are not


borrowing the money to ourselves, we are underwriting the loan. We


are using our good name and are credit worthiness. There are many


governments who could not operate the scheme because they would not


be worthy enough in credit to do it. It is using the hard decisions we


have taken to benefit small businesses. On behalf of tax payers


up and down the country, a note of caution. If banks get into trouble


and businesses who have taken the money get into trouble, in the end,


the taxpayer is standing behind it. So this is not a decision without


risk. Of course, we make a balanced judgement about the risks we take


in the economy. I think this is relatively low risk for a


government given the strength of our balance sheet and low interest


rates and the credibility we haven't the world. We are


underwriting the Loans the banks make to the small businesses so the


banks are not carrying a credit risk for the small business and we


have worked with the banks to make sure it is a sensible scheme. It


means if you are a small business borrowing money at 5%, we might be


able to reduce the interest rate to 4%, so that costs by a 5th the


interest your pain. You would have -- the interest you are paying.


What we can do with our credibility with small businesses is to offer


something similar on mortgages for first-time buyers and new-build


homes to help the construction industry to get the homes built and


create demand for new homes and help families who can't possibly


afford the deposit to pay for one. In all sorts of ways we are trying


to not deliberately borrow more money to reset the low interest


rates and the credit rating, but we will use every other tall at the


disposal to get the economy moving to pull us out of the situation


that many countries find themselves in at the moment. Asking about


another of those things in the tool box, the notion of bringing forward


and boosting the infrastructure spending. And getting pension funds


to pay for it. Given that they do not want to take the risk of


getting into the big schemes, how will you tempt them? British


pension funds have not been investing the savings of British


people in British infrastructure and we are totally going to change


that. We have signed an agreement with the big pension funds which


will see them investing British savings in British infrastructure,


building an economy based on savings and investments rather than


on debt and that the same time, overhauling Britain's and equip --


antiquated road network and energy systems and actually building the


things we need to have a more balanced economy. The City of


London are behind us with this tool box. The City of London have done


well in the last 10 years and financial services are important to


the country, but be on the City of London we have to get the rest of


the economy moving -- beyond the City of London. Are you going to


bring in a further bank tax? will set out any tax measures on


Tuesday. But I am clear that the financial sector has had to make a


contribution and we have introduced a permanent bank levy, each and


every year, seen the banks paying the tax they never paid in the past.


We are in this together, all parts of society. All parts of the


industry are contributing to recovery. A lot of people have been


ahead to the strike plan on Wednesday, people at the bottom are


making a disproportionate sacrifice. And the better-off are still not


doing their share. I have attracted a lot of criticism for suggesting


that child benefit should be taken away from higher rate tax-paying


families. I get a lot of letters from people and I understand it is


a difficult decision, but I did that that those measures... Father


Richard better off? I don't think those with the child benefit would


regard themselves as rich but they are better off than other parts of


society. It was a difficult decision but I'm trying to be fair


in a very difficult place where Britain has borrowed far too much


money and has to pay back their debts. In the end, the money has to


come from the British people and from a growing economy. You are


having, as at a government, an argument with the trade unions, but


do you personally have sympathy with those really quite poorly-paid


public sector workers who will have to be paying more and working


longer for a much poorer pension in some cases? I think there is a lot


of misinformation around. Ed Balls was on this chair a few minutes ago


saying that people earning under �15,000 will have to pay more. We


have explicitly excluded people on low salaries from paying more


contributions for their pensions. I think what is on offer is a good


deal. I use sympathetic to public sector workers who were angry or


not? -- are you sympathetic? I am trying to give them a decent


pension for many years to come, better than you could get if you


are in the private sector these days. We have the last Labour


pension Secretary, Lord Hutton, to come in and do a report and we are


using the report as the basis of a deal that is fair to the taxpayer


but also fair to the public sector. In many cases they will get a


bigger pension than they have had before. Yes, they will have to


retire later or pay more contributions, but will have to do


that because the society is older and the country is in debt. I have


to try and asked you about the Eurozone before we finish. Do we


face the danger of the country's leading the Eurozone or the


Eurozone itself beginning to break up? Of course countries like


Germany and France have openly asked the questions whether Britain


can stake in the euro -- they can stay in the euro. If you want a cop


-- microcosm of my life as a Chancellor, on Tuesday we are


talking about the statement for the British Parliament, then I have to


get on a train to go to Brussels to talk about the Eurozone. It is


having a hugely chilling effect on the British economy. And you have a


plan, do you, and I presume you do, for what we do if the Eurozone


collapses completely? We have contingency plans for all


situations. We have obviously stepped up contingency planning in


recent months, and you would expect us to do that, but that does not


mean that we predict any particular outcome, we are ready for whatever


the Eurozone throws at us. What would it do to the country here if


the Eurozone collapse? Give would have a massive impact on the UK if


it were a diesel -- disorderly class. One in �7 of exports goes to


Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Spain and Greece, just those countries. So it


is a very important part of our economic strategy that we get the


Eurozone moving as well. Thank you very much indeed, Chancellor. Here


The Chancellor has admitted he expects official figures to show


that economic growth has slowed. He said Britain was facing an


exceptionally difficult time but insisted the government would do


what it takes to deliver its plan for bringing down the deficit. On


this programme, George Osborne gave details of a 20 billion pound loan


guarantee scheme for small and medium-sized businesses. The shadow


chancellor Ed Balls said Labour would look at the detail of the


plan to boost lending to companies before deciding whether to support


it. A rescue operation is under way to try and find six people missing


after a cargo vessel got into difficulty in rough conditions off


the coast of North Wales. Eight people were on board the ship which


is believed to have suffered a cracked hull. Two people were


rescued from the water. The ship was grounded off the coast of


Cornwall last year. That is all from me for now. The next news on


Well, the Chancellor is still with me, and we've been joined again by


his Shadow, Ed Balls. And we also have with us Charlie Siem, who's


been hailed as one of the most exciting young violinists around.


Charlie will be playing this out with a slightly unfamiliar piece of


music. It is by a Norwegian composer. Ole Bull, a distant


relative of mine, and a colourful character from the 19th century.


wrote some cracking music and you will be playing it on an


extraordinary violin. This is from 1735, played by the Great Yehudi


Menuhin. A one of his favourite violins. It is a great honour to be


able to play it. We are looking forward to that. Maybe you should


go and get ready and I will ask these two gentlemen to talk us out.


You famously tear up, I read, when it comes to Antiques Roadshow. I


think we should have an emotional moment between the two of you


because you shout at each other all the time and I wonder what makes


the Chancellor T Iraq. -- tear up. I have never cried watching


Antiques Roadshow. I am watching the Killing, a Danish crime


thriller. It is absolutely brilliant and there are moments


there, mainly in the early episodes, so don't tell me what happens, but


with the loss of the child and the grieving of the parents which are


very, very hard to watch. Is there any chance of the two of you sort


of standing shoulder to shoulder at this moment of national crisis?


Earlier wrong, people watching a very scared now -- early on.


believe Ed Balls has good motives and I hope people think I do. We


both want to get the British economy moving. He has different


views about how we do it but we would not question each other's


motives. We question each other's policies. And we both are


completely clear together that Britain didn't join the single


currency and that was one of the most important decisions of the


last 20 years. We have a debate about the strategy on deficit-


reduction but we both want to do the best thing by Britain. Do you


think he is the brightest they have got? George and I have got on quite


well always. He is good at his job, is a good politician, but has made


one big judgment wrong and that is what we are debating. We both agree


that we cannot play the violin like Charlie. On that note, we can all


agree. Thank you very much to both of you. That is all we have time


for. Thank you to the Chancellor, the Shadow Chancellor and all my


Download Subtitles