18/12/2011 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. This is the time when all newspapers include a review of

the year. This is mainly to make sure journalists can leave the

office early for the Christmas party. Here is mine. Arab Spring,

Japanese wave, British riot, Greek meltdown, French spat, royal

wedding, planet frozen, phones hacked, coalition cross, Sarkozy

sarky, Cam calm. Well, mostly. As to the year ahead, apart from the

wedding, that lot was not predicted, so my advice is save your time and

wallow deep in the week to come. And joining me today for our review

of the Sunday newspapers, the actor, director and general good egg Fiona

Shaw and the former Director General of the BBC, Greg Dyke, who

has driven himself in a car whose number plate appears to read MI6

WMD. No idea what that is about. If we have one ambition on Sunday

mornings it is to confound all those who say politics is boring

and nobody says anything interesting. This being our last

show of the year, we have brought you three generally non-boring

politicians, each of whom has promised to make a sensational on-

camera gaffe or jaw-dropping announcement in the next hour. One

is the mayor of London, Boris Johnson, who warned David Cameron

off using a big financial bazooka in the euro crisis, but now lauds

the prime minister for his victory over the French. Another is a man

who may say this was nothing like a victory, Peter Mandelson, who has

retired from his position as dark lord but who keeps a beady eye on

British and European politics. And the third is someone who would have

made the final of Strictly last night but was too busy tap dancing

through the overcrowded corridors of power, the trade secretary Vince

Cable. We are also going to be talking

about the new Stephen Spielberg film, a movie that has grown out of

the phenomenally successful stage play War Horse. We will be asking

its star, David Thewlis, about the movie adaptation and his role in an

interesting new film about the Burmese dissident Aung San Suu Kyi.

Music, too in this our last show of 2011. The rather fab Annie Lennox

joins us live. First, the news from Susanna Reid.

Good morning. The last US military convoy has left Iraq, nearly nine

years after the invasion which led to the toppling of Saddam Hussein.

In the last few hours, vehicles carrying thousands of troops

crossed the border into Kuwait. They leave behind just over 150

soldiers who will carry out training at the US embassy, and a

small number of marines for diplomatic security.

They arrived in Kuwait by the truckload, thousands of US troops

leaving Iraq for the very last time. The convoy crossed the border in

the early hours of the morning, ending America's operation in Iraq.

The trucks tooted their horns and US military personnel wave as they

welcomed the last American combat troops into Kuwait. There is no

doubt that Iraq is still fragile but these troops will not be back

of the country's future. They are heading for Kuwait, where more of

their colleagues are station, waiting home for the flight -- a

waiting for the flight home to the US. This signify is the end of the

operation and the beginning of the next step into the future for the

country of Iraq. They leave behind a country that still faces

challenges, but the army chief of staff is confident that his troops

can take it from here. I am not afraid at all because we have

strategic relations with the United States and an agreement with NATO.

They worked hard to build up Iraq's army over the last eight years.

troops who have already arrived in Kuwait are enjoying the benefits of

camp for Jane Eyre, and no doubt looking forward to being home for

the holidays. -- Camp Virginia. A major search and rescue operation

is underway in an area of the Philippines where flash floods and

landslides have killed more than 500 and left hundreds more missing.

The navy is scouring coasts on the southern island of Mindanao, while

soldiers search along swollen rivers. Thousands of people in

flooded areas have been moved to evacuation centres.

Rescuers in Indonesia are searching for hundreds of people missing

after a fishing boat sank off the main island of Java. The wooden

boat was believed to be heading for Australia, carrying migrants from

Afghanistan, Turkey and Iran. A local police chief said 380 people

were on board, 76 of whom have been rescued.

The public spending watchdog, the National Audit Office, is to

investigate the sale of the state- owned bank Northern Rock to Virgin

Money. Labour has called for the sale to be delayed, saying the

current deal will leave taxpayers more than �400 million worse off.

The government says it represents the best value for the public purse.

This year's Strictly Come Dancing has been won by the musician Harry

Judd and his professional dance partner Aliona Vilani. They beat

actors Chelsee Healey and Jason Donovan in the final at the Tower

Ballroom in Blackpool, where Bruce Forsyth presented the trophy. Harry

Judd, who is the drummer with the band McFly, said the three month

long competition had been unforgettable.

That's all from me for now. Back to Andrew.

Thank you Susanna. Now, on the front pages today.

I have noticed a brand new linguistic quirk. They used to say

scoop, but now they say revealed. Cash for cocktails at Commons on

the Sunday Times. A dramatic sounding plan from Whitehall to

evacuate British people from Spain and Portugal if the bank's collapse.

And the Observer, revealed, how City fees are eating into our

pensions. The Sunday Telegraph avoids a issues. It says Nick Clegg,

no tax breaks for couples who marry. And you have got to get you Harrys

in the right order this morning. Harry when Strictly, whereas the

Daily Mail has Prince Harry in BlackBerry mugging drama. He

reported the crime committed on one of his friends to the police. And

the Scotland On Sunday edition features the brand new leader of

the Scottish Labour Party, they have gone for a woman to lead them.

And with me to review the papers are Fiona Shaw and Greg Dyke.

Fiona? This is a story that might turn into a story in the future,

one million people from England are living in Spain and what would

happen if suddenly they put their cards in the cash machine and the

Eurozone collapsed. White-collar planning to evacuate them by

working out how to get them I on planes, how to pay their mortgages.

There are also 50,000 people living in Portugal. And how to cover the

entire south coast of England in little white-painted villa is for

them when they get here! Yes, it is worrying that they must go to the

bank every day and hear things like, it looks quite shaky. It is always

emotional language that is not quite Fiscal. I am a banker and I

feel quite shaky, you do not hear that. On the front page of the

Telegraph there is this European Beatle. 40 % compared to 14 for

Labour -- 34 for Labour and 14 for the Liberal Democrats. If you look

at the opinion poll inside, you discover that despite having a 6%

lead, it does not give the Tories a majority, which tells you that

maybe we will have a coalition for quite a long time. The electoral

numbers are so disadvantage to the Tories at the moment. We will speak

about the French side of the story in a minute, but it strikes me that

maybe this crisis between Britain and France is good for both leaders.

It is clearly good for David Cameron in the opinion polls,

because people are clearly pleased by the use of the veto. Whether it

is long-term and short-term for Cameron, you do not know. This week

he looks like a strong leader because he told the Germans and the

French were to get off. Nick Clegg looks good as well because it has

given him something to stand against. I did my 32nd review of

the year but you have chosen a story from the Sunday Express.

Another way of looking back at the year is looking at all the people

who we lost, who died. I think, a bit like musical tunes, there is

something very moving about looking at the dead. Peter Falk, who was a

great man in our youth on television, as he died. It is so

sad. David Croft and Christopher Hitchens in the last few days, this

massive, angry tiger of a man. If people look at these people who

died, some of Bin Laden, that seemed ages ago and it was not so

long ago. John Sullivan, Elizabeth Taylor. Pete Postlethwaite. From

our profession, there was quite a few. It is a way of marinating your

memory about those people to just have them named. It conjures up

bits of your past. I do not know who else died? Lucian Freud.

thought that was a very sad death. They marked the century. Something

which has not died is the coalition and your next stories about

continuing ructions in the coalition. It is basically about

Nick Clegg lampooning Cameron's idea about supporting marriage.

When he says that we should not take a particular version of the

family institution as a 1950s model and tried to preserve it. This is

interesting because first of all we saw Cameroon yesterday on

Christianity. We all remember back to basics and John Major and the

rest of it and in the end, Conservative leader has all appear

to look back on the 1950s as if it was a wonderful period, but for

those of us who were there, it was pretty dull. I only experience six

months off it. It was pretty dull. I think the Liberal Democrats have

reached this stage that they understand that if they do not

start here prove themselves, they will be ejected. The coalition will

come under pressure that it has not so far. The counter-argument would

be that Cameron has to keep turning around to the Conservative family

in the country and saying, I am a Conservative. Nick Clegg has to be

the same for the Liberal Democrats. Assuming there is a deal between

them, that would be fine, but at some stage there must be an issue.

The divide is too great between them. Yes. Fiona, your next story

is Shakespeare's story. There has been a lot about did Shakespeare

write Shakespeare or was it just a bloke called Shakespeare? Stratford

has gone missing. Sorry, Stratford. They are going to do a massive

festival to celebrate Shakespeare. Possibly the biggest theatre

festival ever. They are saying no to No 1, so if anyone has a tinpot

production of Macbeth that they want to do in their kitchen, they

can take it to Stratford and it will be welcomed. I am in favour of

this because it will stop it be known by theatre companies and

governments. Shakespeare is a national hero. The dog is the most

visited site in the country. -- the gold. It is important that people

take hold of Shakespeare and own it themselves.

We want some Fiona Shaw on Shakespeare. No one has asked me to

do any. My next story is the one that you mentioned earlier about

cash for cocktails in the Commons. I love this. The House of Commons

has drawn up plans to hire itself out is a private members' club, and

venue for the IP Giggs, and corporate clients, and that is a

story! That is what it has been for the last 40 years to my knowledge!

Also, they want to open up Big Ben. They believe that walking up and

down to Big Ben is the equivalent of walking across the Sydney

Harbour Bridge. Good for you, as long as you're fit. A couple of

Christmas stories. People have been working hard in the offices of the

Sunday Telegraph. Yes, and they have been looking at Christmas

crackers. It is a very important thing, what are you willing to pay

for your Christmas crackers, many people get expensive ones. My

mother was saying, can we fly to France with Christmas crackers? You

can get house of Fraser once, Marks & Spencer, but the best value seems

to be Morrison's. Am I allowed to say that? You can judge a Christmas

cracker by a stroke. There are some pretty dreadful jokes. The best one

is, how did good King Wenceslas a slight his peak set, deep and crisp

and even. -- like his pizza. Scientists now say the traditional

Christmas tree, left in a warm house, releases mould spores that

can trigger watery eyes, coughing and lethargy. It is nothing to do

with the whisky are the Christmas food. When you're sitting there

because you have eaten too much, you can blame it on the Chris

Thank you very much. Great fun. So to the weather, deep, crisp and

even or unseasonally warm? Let's find out in the weather studio

where I'm joined by Laura Tobin. It's cold and frosty at the moment

but things are set to turn much milder later this week. More on

that in a moment. Temperatures fell to minus six last night in North

Yorkshire, but many of us today will enjoy some sunshine,

accompanied by a chilly breeze. The breeze is pushing showers through

the north-west of England. We have had a covering of snow in

Stratford-upon-Avon and heading now through Northamptonshire and the

wintry shower mix heading towards the Home Counties, giving a light

covering in places. Scotland, scattered wintry showers. For

sheltered eastern Scotland and northern England, beautiful crisp

sunshine through the afternoon. We see the scattered showers

pushing this through Norfolk and Suffolk, rain on the coast, sleet

and snow inland. Toward the south- east, the last of the wintry

showers dying out. The south-west of England, for Cornwall, the risk

of a few rain showers, winds lighter than they were yesterday.

Sheltered parts of the south-west staying dry. In Wales, breezy and

chilly with the wind. For Northern Ireland, sunny spells and a few

scattered showers. All change for Monday. Cloudy and wet. A lot

milder. That milder trend continues as we head through the week. Back

to you, Andrew. Peter Mandelson's been in politics

so long, he remembers when New so long, he remembers when New

Labour was new. The Blair jor years were snakes and ladders and he was

Bizley ensconced in being Trade Commissioner when the new Prime

Minister Gordon Brown sent out an Secretary of State. Lord Mandelson

helped shore up the Brown Government during the credit crunch

but couldn't help win victory at the general election. According to

today's polls, Peter Mandelson, David Cameron's use of the veto is

pretty popular in this country at least? Yes, and I'm quite sure that

President Sarkozy's actions in France are pretty popular with his

public and Mrs Merkel and so it goes on. But the key questions are,

first of all, the treaty that attracted this veto from Britain in

the first place. We are now seeing it. It appears to present

absolutely no threat to Britain whatsoever, it has no effect on us.

It's setting out rules and requirements for the eurozone, of

which we are famously not members, so that doesn't affect us. Secondly,

it contains nothing that affects banking regulation or financial

services, so poses no threat to the City of London either. You have to

ask yourself what this piece of theatre was about and actually, I

think we all now realise it was whipping up a bit of a storm, a bit

of red meat to throw to Mr Cameron's anti-European

backbenchers. There could be a counterargument made quite quickly

however is that it may not affect us directly but this demonstrates

that the Euro-Sceptic who is said a Single Currency would have to lead

to a single economy and in effect for all the financial and fiscal

side of life ah single Government, are proved right, that under strain,

this is now what is happening. That terrible choice for Britain and

other countries to choose BP between your national democracy and

your ability to define your own future and part of this bigger

block is now quite close in front of our noses? Yes, in a sense. I

wouldn't use your term a single economy. I would use a single very,

very large single market in Europe which gives us the sort of

continental power and reach and clout in the world that enables us

to match the United States and North America to our west, the

rising powers to the east and the south of us. But you would concede

there is a democratic question mark here? Well, yes I would. But not

because I think there is a single Government in the offing, but

because to enable the eurozone to work successfully, we need more,

not less political fiscal integration in Europe at a time

when frankly there is sort of integration fatigue pretty common

amongst the public right across Europe. In reality what it means

for the Greeks or the Italians or the Spanish or others, is that they

would be told what their Government could or could not do when it came

to tax or spending by the centre, by the Brussels centre, and they

would see it as by the Germans. That is a big democratic problem

and for a lot of people explains why we could never be part of it in

this country? It does raise a democratic problem and essentially

it raises two immediate issues for me. One is that I think that

Europe's political leaders are frankly failing to explain why to

justify the greater meshing together and integration that is

needed in Europe, it's as if they've forgotten what the

arguments are in favour of European integration or fallen out of the

habit at least of explaining, not just what's required and how, which

they're quite good at, although they could be a lot better, but why

and why do we need more integration at a time when, as I say, most

people are sort of tiring and becoming a little fatigued with it.

But this is going to become more, not less serious, in the coming

years for this reason. That is that we are entering a period, as we all

recognise, of austerity, of tighter public spending. There's going to

be a great deal of public pain during this period and it's going

to be blamed on Europe in many continental countries. Therefore if

the politicians don't get their act together and don't start leading

and providing a real sense of accountability to their public, so

that they have to get out there, explain why what they're dog is

necessary, if they don't do that, you are going to see an increasing

public alienation. You famously said that what this country did was

more real engineering and less financial engineering. Would you

concede one of the things that you wish you'd done differently as a

Labour Government was spend less time and attention on the City and

more on trying to get this country manufacturing again. After all,

that's part of the reason why the Germans are doing so well? The City

and financial markets and services provide a hugely important part of

our economy. Our revenue and employment too. I'm not against the

City and I'm not against financial services. But what I do believe is,

that our exposure as an economy to financial services was too great,

our economy's dependence on financial services was far too

great and we should have recognised that early on. Disappointed by

Labour's showing in the poll at the moment? What is going wrong?

think what is happening, to be fair to Ed Miliband, because his polls

bounce around all over the place, is that we have to recognise that

the deterioration pre-dated his leadership. That disconnect between

the Labour Party, deeply and broadly with the British public,

started to take place in the years before the 2010 election and since

then, again, to his and the Labour Party's credit, we have seen voting

support coming back. Chiefly from Liberal Democrats who voted for

Nick Clegg and his party in 2010, not so much from the Conservatives

who I think are still giving their Government the benefit of the doubt.

What more needs to be done? An entire generation, including

yourself, have relatively young still, have walked away from

frontline politics, not engaged in it any more? Yes. I think that what

Ed Miliband needs to do - look, he's a chap with views, he has a

position in politics and he has a project - that needs to take shape

and become better defined during the course of the coming year. It's

not New Labour, he's perfectly clear about that. But he'll say the

circumstances and the conditions of Britain are not the same as they

were when we were creating New Labour in the 1990s. Those were the

days when markets were very much in fashion, the British economy and

capitalists' model of how we do things in this country seem to be

delivering, everyone's incomes were generally rising, they are not now

and he believes we need a different social contract. Now, there are

dangers in developing that, but he has to navigate his way through and

I think 201 is the way to do that. Missed your jaw dropping gaffe, but

apart from that... So sorry. Thank you very much. Listening to that is

a man who started his rise in journalism as a euro sceptical

reporter in Brussels before becoming a Tory MP, then winning

election as Mayor of London. It all makes Boris Johnson a significant

voice in the argument which is ageing over the future of the City

and the euro drama. He warned against David Cameron's big bazooka

rhetoric but said that the Prime Minister's use of the veto showed,

in his words, that they played a blinder. After all the chatter

about rivalry, Mr David Cameron bathes in the warm glow of Boris

Johnson's slack jawed admiration. I've got that right, haven't I?

More or less. I certainly think that the Prime Minister did the

right thing and, as far as I understand what happened the other

week, there was a series of modest British proposals on the table to

protect financial services, which, as you have just been discussing

with Peter Mandelson, of great importance to the UK, they weren't

anything the Germans and French hadn't heard any more. But for

reasons best known to themselves, they threw it out. Do you think the

City's position is safer than before this summit? I think it's

unchanged. I don't think there will be any more threat from Brussels to

financial services in London as a result of the breakdown of the

summit, far from it. Obviously, there is a continuing appetite in

Brussels, in France and Germany, to produce regulations directives that

could damage our ability to compete. You've got to watch that. Some of

this stuff can be decided at qualified majority, most of the

important stuff is still at unanimity. What was the greet veto

hoo-hah about then? It was essentially about whether or not

they would accept the terms, as I understand it, that the Prime

Minister put out. I think more fundamentally, it was about whether

we in Britain wanted to give our blessing, within the EU treaties,

to the creation of what I think would be frankly anti-democratic

structures of a fiscal union. sing of Government in effect?

Pretty much. That's a short hand for it, but that's effectlyive what

it would be. You would be telling people in Brussels, or France, they

would be telling the periphery economies how much they could tax

and spend. What is the point of democracy if the people you elect

to Parliament, your Government, can't decide what your taxing and

spending policies are? Do you think the euro is doomed in its current

form? I would be amazed if we were all sitting here next year and the

euro had not undergone some sort or change. I think it highly likely

that there'll be a re-alignment in the sense that I think that...

countries will fall out? Possibly, yes. We all know who the likely

candidates are. But the key thing is, I think there's such phobia

about this. There's such a lot of political ego that's been invested

in the success of the euro project that people are failing to see that

actually that might be the best way forward. We continually go on with

this hysterical attempt to bubble gum the whole thing together. We

are just going to consign those periphery economies particularly to

low growth and we are never going to get confidence back in the

eurozone. Would you like to see in the coming year a referendum or at

least agreement on what a referendum is going to be about and

the promise that it's going to happen? A referendum in this

country? So people can decide whether they want to remain part of

the EU or not? Well I think what you certainly need to have is a

referendum, if there's a treaty change that substantially affects

the UK. There's no question about that. Which looks like it's not

going to happen? Right, but I mean there's no immediate reason, as far

as I can see, to get embroiled in that referendum. You mentioned the

words "political ego" a moment ago. Talking about the euro. Nonetheless,

you mentioned the phrase? I did. You did. The Olympics, now an even

larger vast amount of money for the opening ceremony, never mind all

the ground to air missiles and thousands of troops and all the

rest of it. Now, actually, given the Olympic tradition, do we need a

vastly expensive bloated ceremony to show off to the rest of the

world? Let me put the argument for it. This is something that people

in London - you and I in our generation, - we are never going to

see it again, we'll never have an occasion when London is at the

centre of the world in that particular way. The multiplier

effect of investing in something that celebrates London and the UK

around the world, is, I'm told by all the PR people, the advertising

people, the economic houses... There's your problem... This will

deliver unfold benefit force the UK. There are markets around the

world... You are convinced by this? Whether the you can does need to

improve its image and brand. This is a small sum of money by

comparison. I think the Chinese blew half our defence budget on

fireworks, you know, we are not going to be spending anything like

what they did in Beijing. But, given that this thing is only going

to happen once in 50 or 60 years, I think we should do it well.

wonder whether Boris Johnson the columnist would have been against

the IOC officials and the limousines being swept through

London? Let me tell you - Boris Johnson the mayor is going to make

sure that the so-called fat cat Olympo-crats are not going to

spread into the trudging faces of London, we are going to get as much

as we can out of their cars, as many people as we can out of their

cars. 70% of people will go by rail. The IOC has made it very clear to

all their members that they're expected to two by Tube if they

possibly can or by the javelin seven minutes from Kings Cross to

Stratford. That is going to be the best way of getting to the Park.

the context of all that, the politicians in charge,, including

yourself will want to do everything to ensure nothing goes wrong during

those weeks. Yes. It's been alleged that part of that is that you have

in effect said to the transport unions in London, you can have what

you want, we'll give you huge bonuses, huge extra amounts of

money not to strike, please during that period? On the contrary, there

is a deal, four-year deal that's been done with the Tube unions and

the Tube drivers which I think is a very good deal for London. We've

never had a four-year deal before, it's something that will deliver

long-term stability and... A lot of money? And that deal does reflect

the reality that they will do extra. On the Boxing Day business and

ASLEF, there is no justification whatever for their action, because

they are rostered to do 260 days a year and Boxing Day is part of that

and, you know, they are beautifully making the case for moving towards

automation and driving the trains. The current position of the

Conservative Party. I tease at the beginning about David Cameron, but

he's done very well. The parties are chipper about what's happened

over Europe. Do you think there's a... Are you not sure? There's a

frown? I was thinking that what you are really seeing is a kind of void

in people's understanding of what the opposition is really trying to

say. I'm not clear what would have happened the other week if Ed

Miliband had been in that chair. It's very far from obvious. There

is a certain exdon't twi Government is credited with dealing with tough

times and having to get Britain out of the mire but also where Tess o

What is essential to ensure the City of London keeps making money?

I heard people Mandelson saying just now that we have become

excessively dependent on financial services. -- Peter Mandelson. I

would love to see the growth of manufacturing industry, but to

those great temples I can see behind due, Kenny a wharf, the City,

they produce �3 billion worth of tax. That is of massive value to

the UK. So what do you need to see tomorrow on the banking

regulations? Do not kill the goose. There is no doubt that there is

something creepy about the massive bonuses that bankers are still

continuing to receive, in spite of the fact they were bailed out by

the taxpayer. We all want to see them doing more for society.

you're an actor, the two words you want in front of your name are in

demand. David Thewlis is one of the most in-demand actors around. No

sooner had he completed his magical run as Lupin in the Harry Potter

series of films than Steven Spielberg came calling to ask him

to start in the much-anticipated film adaptation of War Horse, which

is out next month. He has also been starring opposite Michelle Yeoh in

a film about the Burmese opposition democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi.

He plays her devoted husband, the Oxford academic Michael Aris. Let's

have a look at that film, The Lady. I have never spoken in public

before. There is no time like the present. I will be watching from

Good morning. This is a very unusual project, because there is a

sort of Hollywood style biographical picture, made about

someone who is still there, someone who has not yet won, and a lot of

people in the crowd would have been killed or imprisoned in the

meantime. The making of this film is a profoundly political act.

was. It was shot secretly. As much as an epic feature film can be shot

secretly! It was shot in Bangkok last year while Aung San Suu Kyi

was still under house arrest. She was released while we were making

it but if you had Dugald Aung San Suu Kyi or Michelle Yeoh at the

time of making it, you would not have had one hit for the entire

four months of making the film. That is because everyone had been

asked to keep quiet? Yes. People dig it out of respect. We had 200

Burmese exiles in the audience there. Your character, Michael Aris,

Aung San Suu Kyi's husband, we should explain, who died of cancer,

an interesting SEAL. I thought slightly of David Kelly, a slightly

dishevelled, not particularly glamorous looting academic. It is

also a film about love. It is about his relationship between Hermann

this leader who has to lay down so much. It is a love story more than

a drier -- more than a biographical movie. It does not taking the whole

story. It throws the spotlight on this incredible commitment they

both had. They agreed when they got married that if her country ever

called, she would answer the call and it would mean their separation.

I do not think they imagined it to be as dramatic as it happened.

There is a lovely club which shows the moment of separation when

Michael Aris is sent out of the country. I could not have got

through this without you. I will continue to play mayhem behind the

scenes. Let's hope this limbo is short lived. I will be fine. Please

do not worry. The boys must be the The lady, who presumably will see

this film herself if she has not, quite thought. War Horse, it was

quite a successful children's book but it was the stage play that made

it such a success. It is now a film. Working with Steven Spielberg, an

interesting experience, I would imagine? What is he like? I have

worked with some incredible directors and actors in my time,

but I think only seeing Steven Spielberg behind a camera and

hearing him shout action, it was more surreal than anyone I have

worked with. I have seen everything he has ever done. He has been

called an actor's's director. often operating the camera and he

is speaking to you while the takes are happening. It is good. One of

these things that made it so successful were the beautiful

puppets on stage. But you had to use real horses so it will feel

different. It is entirely different. This is a very different experience

to the play. And you play a villain. I do. I am the moustache twirling

Crete. -- a baddie. You were aware will thin Harry Potter. It is the

end of what has been an enormously long project. -- a werewolf. Was

that a happy period in your life? It was incredibly happy. As you

were shooting the film, and you knew it would break box-office

records. Even Steven Spielberg can bomb, but Harry Potter does not.

has been very good for British character actors. So many people

have been given a platform by this. Yes, and a lot of people have gone

on the intranet and checked out our previous works. I am sure many

people will be watching The Lady but also the Harry Potter DVDs over

Christmas. Last week the leader of the Liberal

Democrats made it clear that he did not see eye-to-eye with the leader

of the Conservative Party on Europe. This week the papers make much of

the fact that the coalition partners do not agree on tax breaks

for married couples. Once upon a time different views within a

government got headlines about splits, but now the two side to

boast about them. Vince Cable is Business Secretary and a key player

in the current crisis. Good morning. At any point in this crisis over

the veto, did you contemplate resignation? No. I frequently think

about my position in government because we are all making different

-- a difficult decisions, but when I reflect on it, we are committed

to making this government work. We have got to deal with the serious

problems in the economy. I am somewhat left a centre, a social

democrat, but that is secondary to fact that we all have to work

together to solve this economic crisis. That is why I am staying in

government. Was it clear in your mind that the Beatle might have to

be exercised? Did you know what was going to happen? The issues which

were opposed, about the reform of the financial services sector, were

not crucial to the future of the European Union. We should focus on

rebalancing our own economy. We need to shift the British economy

to manufacturing and creative services. Our own financial

services sector needs reform. Our banks were that the centre of the

financial crisis. That is why tomorrow the Government is going to

launch this initiative on the banks, accepting infill the because

commission. We are going to proceed with the separation of the banks. -

- we will accept the findings of the Vickers report in full.

banks are saying, you cannot split us up, you will damage us, that has

failed? It has, and I am working with the Chancellor on this. We're

going to proceed with it. Moreover, we are going to get on with it. The

secondary legislation will be completed within this Parliament.

It has got to be done because we cannot have a position where the

big banks are too big to fail. are going to see the splitting up

of the banks. The Chancellor was worried about this, as I recall,

but he has changed his position? have treated this as a joint

exercise. The Chancellor and I set up this Commission together. We

have accepted the recommendations of the commission to make the

British economy save. We cannot risk having a reputation -- a

repetition of the financial catastrophe three years ago. This

is a good result. I do reflect on the fact that within this

government I and my Liberal Democrat colleagues have achieved a

series of positive things. This is one of them? It is. Protecting the

state pension, and the premium. Reform of the banks is something we

argued for and now it will happen. Even Boris Johnson conceded that

the use of the British veto which she was in favour of has not put

the city in a stronger position. It has not put British financial

services in a more protected position. Do you think that as

well? Yes, and Boris Johnson was right. So what was it all died?

was slightly political. -- what was it about. It did not deal with the

financial problems in Europe. you have had to swallow some of

your political views? Yes, we need to focus on the long-term issues.

We cannot tell the union what to do, but we have got to make fundamental

reforms to get stability and growth. That is the top priority. We need

to work within the European Union. If I and my colleagues are going to

continue to attract inward investment from overseas,

particularly from the big Asian countries, they see Britain as a

gateway to Europe. We are in a very dangerous economic position, much

worse than threat their whole half- century of the European Union. The

European Union has put in place a series of rules to prevent

nationalism, protectionism, it is so tempting to use the crisis to

break those, which is why the union Nonetheless, some countries will

fall out of the euro, won't they, in the year ahead? I don't think

that's necessary. It's something we should try to avoid. There is a

two-stage problem within Europe, one is preventing large scale

default in southern Europe and from the Germans in particular, they've

got to get behind the financial support. The longer term issue is

how you solve the problem with an imbalance. Some countries have

large deficits. The deficit countries have to accept financial

discipline, but the Germans have to expand and that balance is not

accepted yet. Can I ask you about the tax break story today, no tax

break for couples who get married. Why is this something to raise now?

It was a big issue before the Government was formed but it didn't

find its way into the coalition agreement because the two parties

differ. I'm a great believer in traditional

marriages, I've had two very successful happy marriages, so I

won't criticise it. But there's a difference between giving

artificial tax incentives which amongst others would penalise

widows. It feels a slightly gratuitous piece of Liberal

Democrat gunnery at this delicate moment? I don't think so. I don't

think that was the intention. I know Nick Clegg is trying to focus

our attention on the big economic agenda which is what this

Government is really about. I'm sure tomorrow, he'll be celebrating

with me the fact that we are making this big reform of the banking

system, something we have fought for and has been achieved. Thank

you very much for now. We are getting towards the end of the show.

Time for the look back at some of the highlights from the last year.

It's been quite a year at home and abroad. In January, all the main

party leaders knew that 2011 would be tough, but no-one could have

predicted what the biggest challenges would turn out to be. My

first challenge as it happens was the irrepressible Lenny Henry.

You are like Dangerman, aren't you? Do I get to ask a question?

course! You'd better get on it. faster! I am still confident and

optimistic about our future but I fully accept a difficult year and a

year in which I'm sure people will want, from time to time, to give

their politicians a good hard kick. You don't join a Government western

you are dealing with these big issues and somehow think you are

going to be exempt fromvilleification, far from it.

I've got broad shoulders, thick skin. It would be very difficult to

work with Nick Clegg but let's see if he were to be a sinner repentus,

maybe things would change. He was a force for stability in the region,

in the peace process, but, having said that, there were a whole lot

of forces for democracy, for change, economic and social reform in Egypt

that were held back. And those are now unleashed.

You met Saif Gaddafi. What did you think when you saw him giving that

extraordinary first speech? To be honest, I would rather have had a

couple of minutes with him beforehand to say that, you know,

this sort of performance is not going to get you anywhere. I've

been saying for many months, George Osborne's plan is bad economics, it

won't work and it's looking like I was right and George was wrong.

sitting here a minute ago said it was George Osborne's fault. One of

the big changes since Ed Balls was trying to run the economy which is

these things are done independently, like Harry Hill. Fight, fiect, but

you don't fight. -- fight. And so, to the review of

the Sunday papers which are dominated by the aftermath of the

Royal Wedding. Is Elton a Knight of the garter, or does he just wear

them? The Bishop of London's sermon was a cracker. Singing Jerusalem

with the London Symphony Orchestra behind you felt like the roof would

lift off and there was no better place to be in. You are going to be

the guest of the Queen at Buckingham Palace? Yes. Some people

noticed last time around that you and Michelle seem to have a bit of

kemstry with the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh -- chemistry.

could not have been more charming to the girls, they had a tkhoons

ride in the carriage on the grounds. David Cameron has the opportunity

every week to sit down with the Queen -- chance to ride in the

carriage. Would you like to privately do that, shoot the breeze

with the Queen? Not sure if anybody shoots the breeze with the when

but... Perhaps not. Here it is, the last edition of the News of the

World. No, no, no. Are you able to say that the relationship between

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown and News International and other

newspaper bosses was unhealthily close? It was too close. How are

things going with your brother? You're brothers for life and

politicians for a Parliament at a time. Life never goes according to

plan. Actually there isn't a plan, you've got a series of

circumstances and try and make the best of it. Sometimes it hurts,

it's worth saying that. I was born under a Labour Government and I am

determined to die under a Labour Government. I'll have to get a move

on obviously, but I suppose my message is, have faith.

And try and change the world. reflections on Britain over the

summer? Grimsville, the Americans are now calling us Grimsville. The

British are savages, it's what makes us good at wars. I need a

dollar, dollar, a dollar that's what I need, yeah... Is there any

chance do you think of the two of you standing pretty much shoulder-

to-shoulder at this moment of crisis? I would say actually... I

believe that Ed has good motives and I hope he would think I have

good motives, we are trying to get the British economy going. We are

both completely clear together that Britain didn't join the Single

Currency, that was one of the most important decisions of the last 20

years. Because you are Foreign Secretary and worried? I will never

go soft on in. I believe in being in Europe but not being run by

Europe in my slogan of ten years or so ago. At any point did the Prime

Minister call you and speak to you about it directly? He was knocked

in a nocturnal negotiation, I was locked in my flat in Sheffield.

What was your reaction? I said it was bad for Britain and made it

clear to the Prime Minister that it was untenable for me to welcome it.

It's not a marriage, it doesn't end in divorce. I'm happily married, to

my wife and not Nick Clegg, put it that way. If I share with you my

story, would you share your dollar with me...

A few moments from the last year. Our three politicians have return

and we have Annie Lennox too. You are wearing your HIV shirt, you are

not quite sitting on Boris Johnson's shoulder or knee.

didn't intend to. She's the AIDS ambassador. I was going to make

that point. You are doing work in Africa with AIDS, particularly

looking at the transmission of AIDS from mothers to children. That's

right. You have fame and celebrity. What can you bring to the party

when it comes to big campaigns like this? The thing is that I have a

tremendous passion for women and children's rights and I figured out

that HIV and AIDS was something I felt so strongly about, the fact

that, at this point in time, you know, over 33 million people have

died from HIV and AIDS, it's a huge figure. A lot of people would say

HIV is an old story? Certainly not. It's not in Africa for sure, it's a

daily story where a thousand children die on a daily basis

actually. Here to too, we really need to get our act together and

start to remessage to young people especially in the capital... It's

on the increase again, yes. Yes. It's been a busy year because you

have an exhibition at the V&A, the old Eurythmics gear? Well, some of

it, yes. You are going to be singing in a meement - moment a

wonderful Christmas Carol, wonderful cold weather out there,

and this is In The Bleak Midwinter? Yes. The album is in the charts?

believe so, yes. You came to Carols early on? Yes, it was such a joy to

revisit traditional car rolls, it's a pleasure for me. I started

singing them when I was seven and now I'm 57, so 50 years of singing

them. Go and warm up the piano. Great stuff, thank you. Well, lots

we could talk about in the last programme of the year. What about

predictions about the number of countries that will still be in the

euro this time next year if we are all sitting on the sofa. Peter?

we have fewer members of the eurozone, we have to pra that it's

their choice and it's because they want that alternative, not because

the eurozone's collapsed -- pray. If it collapses, we are all,

including Britain, well in the mire. So you hope that it's the same size

as it is now. Boris? I think, as I said now, it's highly unlikely

we'll be here without there having been some kind of big reform. I

would say certainly at least one will go. What's that, 16, Ouzo will

be substantially cheaper is my prediction. Vince? I think it will

stay together. They are leaving their rescue until late in the day,

but I think they know it has to be done. We shouldn't underestimate

the sheer upheaval, if it does go wrong. What is the most important

thing for next year? What do you want in your Christmas stocking

politically? A triumphant Olympic and Paralympic Games. The sense

that the economy is turning round, people are doing the right thing,

but they are worried about jobs and living standards and it should be

the clear evidence... So lack of a further crisis in a way?

sticking to what we are doing and making a success of it Labour want

more definition of what the new project is all about, perhaps more

Sol si, fewer jokes at Prime Minister's Questions -- policy.

They've not been great in Prime Minister's Questions, have they?

want to see how the Prime Minister deals with this extremism on his

backbenchs, we have seen a hint of this and if their policy hold

spreads across the agenda, we'll see fast developing David Cameron's

worst nightmare. Thank you all. Boris Johnson still

clutching your book. Yes, I failed to publicise it earlier on. That's

right. Boris Johnson is still in rum bustious spirit. Thanks to all

my guests. Over the next 12 months mrbgs more shows I'm sure, but

taking a break now and we are back on 8th January. In the New Year, we

will have Ranulph Fiennes. We end with Annie Lennox performing In The

Bleak Midwinter. Happy Christmas # In The Bleak Midwinter, frosty

wind may moan # Earth stood hard as iron, water

like a stone ; Snow had fallen, snow on snow, snow

on snow, In the bleak midwinter, long ago

# Our God, heaven cannot hold him, nor earth sustain;

# What can I give him, poor as I # If I were a shepherd, I would