18/03/2012 The Andrew Marr Show

Morning. Man of the week, Greg Smith, the

Goldman Sachs banker who left revealing they talk about clients

as muppets - if you make enough money and your're not currently an

axe-murderer, he said, you will be promoted. In terms of leaving a job

you don't like, it's up there with that airline steward who bawled out

an obnoxious passenger over the intercom, grabbed a beer, opened

his plane's emergency inflatable chute and slid off to freedom.

Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, over to you.

Joining me today for our review of the Sunday newspapers - two

journalists happy in their jobs, I'm sure. The celebrated CNN

foreign correspondent and, as they say over there,-anchor", Christiane

Amanpour. And the Guardian's political correspondent Nick Watt,

just back from sharing burgers and backchat with Barack 'chuffed to

bits' Obama and David Cameron in Washington.

But of course, looking ahead, it's Budget week. Who wins, who loses?

Most years, the papers work themselves up into a lather of

excitement and speculation, and then a week or two later, it's all

forgotten. This one, though, seems more interesting than usual, not

least because of negotiations inside the coalition which might as

well have been carried on via Facebook, they're so public. Will

the rich be pleased? Will poorer taxpayers get some relief? We

haven't heard from the Chancellor, George Osborne, himself for a while

but this morning he's here - not, I fear, to spill the Budget beans,

but I hope to give us some of his own thinking.

The economic outlook seems just a little brighter, but the pain's not

over, and now public sector workers face the possible end of national

wages, hitting incomes in poorer parts of the country. I'll be

talking, too, to Labour's money man, Ed Balls.

And as London prepares for the Diamond Jubilee, the Olympics and

the biggest policing challenge for years, we're also talking to former

copper and the Lib Dem mayoral candidate in the capital, Briam

Paddick. -- Brian Paddick. Finally, a great Margaret Thatcher,

on telly just now and wowing them in the West End, the wonderful

Lindsay Duncan joins me to talk about Noel Coward, the 1960s and

White Heat. All that coming up, but first over to the newsdesk and Naga

Munchetty. Good morning.

The Premiership footballer Fabrice Muamba is fighting for his life

after collapsing during Bolton Wanderers' FA Cup game at Tottenham

yesterday. Doctors tried to revive the 23-year-old in front of

thousands of fans, before he was taken to hospital, where he's now

in intensive care. Fabrice Muamba is still fighting

for his life this morning in the heart attack unit of the London

chest Hospital. Last night his family and fiancee were also there

as doctors fought to save him. His condition is described as stable

but critical. The incident that brought him there has shocked the

football world. It came minutes before half-time when he collapsed.

Paramedics acted swiftly using a different related to revive him.

The rest of the match was abandoned. He went down without anybody around

him and if players were visibly distressed. The crowd as well were

very quick to appreciate the seriousness of the situation.

incident brought an outpouring of shock and sympathy. The club's

manager, Owen Coyle, says the following 24 hours will be crucial.

Our thoughts and prayers... We have been inundated with people wishing

him well. We hope he is able to recover. This is very serious, he

is critically ill. All people can do now is wait and hope. By

Sunday trading laws could be suspended during the London

Olympics to help boost the economy. The move, which will apply to

England and Wales, is expected to be announced by the Chancellor in

his Budget this week. Shops that are currently allowed to open for

only six hours will be able to trade all day. But not everyone

will welcome the change. Throughout the Olympics this summer,

hundreds of thousands of sports fans will be on the move and George

Osborne wants them spending money to help boost the economy. To that

end he will suspend Sunday trading laws to allow spectators to do a

little shopping before and after they have been to the game. Can't

the small shops and petrol stations can stay open all day on Sunday.

Large shops like supermarkets and garden centres and Palmer's stores

in central London and retail parks can trade for only six hours. But

for eight Sundays from July 22nd, these shops in England and Wales

will be able to trade all day if they want. The change will require

emergency legislation and officials say they have to get it through

Parliament by Easter. The idea of relaxing Sunday trading laws has in

the past prompted strong opposition from trade unions, church leaders

and small businesses. They may fear that what has been built a

temporary change may become permanent. Some Conservative and

Labour MPs have protested that Mr Osborne should have consulted first

before announcing the change. This measure will not have an automatic

journey through Parliament. The Libyan government has formally

requested the handover of Colonel Gaddafi's former intelligence chief,

Abdullah al-Senussi. He was arrested in the West African state

of Mauritania yesterday. Mr Senussi fled Libya last year. He's wanted

by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity.

12 South American countries have issued a statement rejecting

Britain's military presence in the Falkland Islands, and calling for a

negotiated settlement. Tensions between Argentina and Britain have

risen ahead of the 30th anniversary of the Falklands War next month.

But David Cameron has said the UK will continue to defend the islands.

The opening race of the Formula One Grand Prix season has taken place

in Australia. You can watch highlights on BBC One at two

o'clock this afternoon. So if you don't want to know the result from

Melbourne, press mute and look away now.

Jenson Button won for McLaren. The reigning world champion Sebastian

Vettel came second, with Lewis Hamilton in third place.

That's all from me for now. I'll be back just before ten o'clock with

the headlines. I wonder how many people actually

do look away when that happens! On to the newspapers now. The Sunday

to the newspapers now. The Sunday Times has a story about rock stars

in billion pounds tax charge. It says people including Bob Geldof

and Mick Jagger are among those who have put everything from Highland

castles to parking spaces into offshore companies to avoid tax.

Scotland on Sunday about people being paid less in poorer areas

going down predictably badly in Scotland. The Independent on Sunday

has an interesting story, saying that 50 doctors are going to stand

against Lib Dem and Conservatives in revenge over the NHS bill. The

Sunday Express has fears that state secrets were stolen and says that

MI5 is involved after a break-in at Ed Miliband's office at the House

of Commons. And the Mail on Sunday, of Commons. And the Mail on Sunday,

�100,000 gift... Ed Miliband trying to raise money for the Labour Party.

And with me to review the papers are Christiane Amanpour and Nick

Watt. We will start with Nick because you were in Washington for

this extraordinary love-in. I was. You get the call from Barack Obama

and Michel and they ask you to stand in the White House and you

think I suppose I had better do that. Someone has to do it! It was

a pretty extraordinary event. We can bit a bit -- get a bit carried

away. Some people say Roosevelt and Churchill was a big moment, Ewing

seen nothing yet. This was a present we thought was re-entering

the US away from the transatlantic alliance in the direction of the

Pacific and Asia. He he was, the full Washington treatment for David

Cameron. What is interesting is why this happened. What's going on? As

ever with the special relationship, it is a two-way relationship. It

suits Barack Obama to have a Conservative leader in the United

States in an election year. I still think the relationship between

Great Britain and the United States is solid, it is reaffirmed every

time there's a change of leadership. They had to talk about things like

Afghanistan. I think there will be an accelerated move to withdraw

troops. A lot of serious stuff to talk about behind the photo

opportunities. What about the fact that Cameron was so lavish about

Obama, didn't even speak to any Republicans, could that come back

to haunt him? I was there with Gordon Brown in 2008 in the same

stage of the electoral cycle and he mat every candidate. David Cameron

did not meet any Republican. It is a much more complicated Republican

posters this time. But the language David Cameron was using was pretty

much endorsing Barack Obama's approach to the economy and that

will be very helpful to Obama. For every US President and UK Prime

Minister to get on, there has to be a moment when they click. Clearly

what happened here is the click moment came over Libya. Barack

Obama looked at David Cameron, the US has only partly evolved, he took

the decision and followed it through. He thought David Cameron

was very brave. That famous lead from behind, which has haunted the

Obama administration. We know it was Britain and France that lead

that Libyan resolution and the NATO action. The US did play the role

from behind. We will come on to her much bigger problem in a moment.

You have a story closer to home. do. It is something that everybody

here is waking up and having known what happened yesterday. This sad

story of Fabrice Muamba, who collapsed on the pitch yesterday.

As a soccer fan, because my fan -- my son is a soccer fan, it is also

a really human story and one that will touch everybody. Everybody's

prayers are with him. Absolutely. Absolutely heartbreaking. What was

interesting was watching the reaction of the other players on

the pitch. Fabrice Muamba was clearly adored and respected, is

adored and respected in football. You saw that reaction on the ground,

but also the reaction on Twitter. A massive Lee loved figure. Yes. Your

next story, some domestic politics. You will be talking to George

Osborne and Ed Balls. Coalition's tug-of-war about the Budget. It is

extraordinary. We pretty much know the outlines of what is in it. The

Speaker will be furious. It is not so much speculation, it is facts.

It is a tug-of-war between these two sides in the coalition and they

do have vastly different visions of how economic policy... Are and they

leak. They have to leak because they have to prepare the ground.

What we have seen recently is the leading in my paper of the story

that George Osborne will scrap the 50p upper rate of tax. Clearly that

is a very, very difficult moment for the Lib Dems. If you have spent

three general elections in a row campaigning to the left of the

Tories and then you are involved in cutting 50p tax, that is difficult

for your party. It is interesting watching this in the British press

because it is a contain situation. In the US, we've been reporting on

this for the last 18 months. There's been a budget wrangle and

beyond. It is extraordinary how long that has taken. You are -- you

were a friend of Marie Colvin. colleague, I knew her through many

years in many different trenches. Every time I see a serious story, I

think of her. We remember her and her bravery. This is her paper,

Sunday Times. If she was telling the story in the indispensable way

she and all of us believe you can't substitute for eyes and ears on the

ground. She died trying to tell this savage story. Many of us are

truly horrified by this. It reminds me of Sarajevo. I reported that 20

years ago. Towns under siege, civilians, children being

slaughtered. President Assad is constantly telling the

international community it is terrorists. There was a big suicide

bomb attack in Damascus yesterday, but I have it on very good

authority from American intelligence, they don't believe

al-Qaeda is supporting the opponents. They do believe some al-

Qaeda is there, they have their own war they are waging against the

Assad regime, but not that it has anything to do with the current

opponents. Clearly we can hear that your enthusiasm for being out there

as a foreign correspondent... There comes a time when you take on other

roles. You are with a BEA seat, you are about to go with CNN I have a

double deal. Global affairs anchor for ABC where I work inside the US.

I am restarting my CNN show, a foreign policy show. I am delighted.

A lot of gold braid! A lot of My next story is on the Independent

on Sunday, doctors in the house. It is saying a whole load of doctors

are thinking of standing at the next general election to challenge

the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats over the health bill. The

government will be worried about this because in 2001, Richard

Taylor stood against a Labour candidate and won because he was

fighting to keep his local hospital. They will think the NHS, there

could be trouble. The difference is Richard Taylor was clearly

campaigning on one emotive issue, it is our local hospital. This is

clearly an emotive issue but it doesn't have that cut through. The

danger it is not that these doctors could win, but they could split the

vote. Elsewhere I see there is more talk about Andrew Lansley being

moved out of the Cabinet. That's right, the prime minister is

thinking about doing a cabinet reshuffle before the Olympics, and

that Andrew Lansley will be removed, and talking about a Liberal

Democrats replacing him. I think if there is a reshuffle, it will be

after the Olympics. The interesting. The Sunday Telegraph, this terrible

story about the American who went ape in Afghanistan and started

murdering people. Obviously he will be put on trial for this. It is

alleged but people have made their judgements about what happened. It

reminds me of Vietnam, these people are trying to win the hearts and

minds of people, and this is very difficult for Hamid Karzai and the

village to get over. It shows the policy is under a huge strain in

Afghanistan. Also, walk is unbelievably violent and

unpredictable. This man snapped... But this goes beyond snapping, this

is 16 people who have been murdered, including children. The trial is

going to take place, but it also shows this ten-year war, the

longest the Americans have ever fought, with soldiers being

deployed over and over again, and in some instances at breaking point.

In other stories, the Archbishop of Canterbury retiring, and the

runners and riders are already being discussed. Yes, and this

story is saying that Rowan Williams is planning to launch an attack on

the Big Society, on David Cameron, and it says he has been slightly

offended that he would set up meetings with David Cameron and

then with a few minutes to go they would say the Prime Minister can't

see you. David Cameron will obviously have not a very big role

because Gordon Brown has changed it, but a role in choosing a successor.

David Cameron has said his role is a bit like the reception to Magic

FM in the Chilterns. On and off! is amazing to watch the news

happening this week, and we have seen in Syria, in Afghanistan, we

have seen tragically even in a country at peace - Switzerland -

these children who have been killed in the crash. We must think about

that, and I believe that success in these places was possible, and I

hope it turns out better than what we are seeing right now. A good

review, thank you. Bird song and soft clear light, as

I staggered out of bed this morning. We need the rain, but not in the

springtime please. The news that springtime please. The news that

counts over the next 24 hours, the weather. I suspect the rain that

some will see today, even if the showers fall on a Sunday, will be

welcome rain across England and Wales. Earlier this morning we had

this band of rain, even bringing snow at times, as that drifts south

through the day, it will generate heavy and thundery showers as we

head into the afternoon. This guy is will be largely clear and sunny

for Northern Ireland, Scotland and northern England in the afternoon.

In the sunshine, it will feel pleasant. Soon after dusk, those

showers will fade away. That will bring a chilly night, with

widespread frost into the countryside, lowest temperatures

down to one degree Celsius. Tomorrow, we will have some fairly

heavy and persistent outbreaks of rain affecting off western Scotland,

with as much as 40 mm of rain falling here. Elsewhere, dry and

bright. For those praying for rain, the rest of the week looks mainly

the rest of the week looks mainly dry.

We have heard from Boris Johnson, from Ken Livingstone, but another

veteran campaigner it is the former senior policeman, Brian Paddick,

who also gave evidence in the phone hacking saga recently. Welcome. You

are coming into this race at an interesting time, as a former

policeman, and we are hearing all sorts of slightly scary sounding

stuff about riot control techniques. How do you approach it as a

candidate, first of all? The mayor of London is now the Police and

Crime Commissioner for London, so the mayor decides the priority for

the police, the budget for the police, and holds the police to

account. This is an important election. With 30 years of

experience myself, I would argue no one is better qualified to hold

that position. He went to the Leveson Inquiry, to give evidence,

your own phone was tapped. How do you regard the relationship between

the Met police and editors, journalists, proprietors, the press

establishment? Be evidence we heard, for example a senior officer being

told it was payback time for the champagne, quite clearly indicates

that at the top of the Met Police it was too close, too cosy between

newspaper editors and senior officers. Do you think it was

corrupt? Were are told as constables not to accept kebabs

from the local Greek restaurant because you never know when you

have to breathalyse the individual concerned. Senior officers should

realise it could come to pass, and it did, they you could have to take

criminal action against the newspaper editors they are wining

and dining with. Do you think it is a completely different culture that

has to spread across senior police in when it comes to contact with

journalism? The difficulty is, whatever happens at the top is the

example those at the bottom follow. Therefore it has to be a change of

culture at the top of the organisation. The new commission it

is sending out the right messages as far as that is concerned. The

meetings should be formal meetings, the minutes should be published,

and it should be nothing stronger than a cup of tea. Looking ahead to

what is coming up in London, we have the Olympics as well as the

diamond jubilee - an enormously difficult job for the police in

terms of the security threat to an event as big as this. What would be

your advice as a politician looking from the outside in? We saw the

riots last August, we have increasing crime at the moment, so

crime is the number-one issue, let alone with the Olympics coming

along and those security issues. Chris Allison is in overall charge,

he has been there throughout, he is on tarnished by this other stuff so

we could not be in better hands as far as that is concerned, but we

have to make sure the police are held to account. Unfortunately the

previous two mares have shown they have been terrible of holding the

police to account for their performance. You are the Liberal

Democrats candidate in this race, so I must ask - stories this

morning in the paper saying Liberal Democrats are worried that the 50

pence rate of tax will be cut in the Budget. Would you be worried

about that? We want tax cuts for low and medium income earners, for

ordinary working people. I don't care how we get the tax out of the

super rich, a tycoon tax, a mansion tax, or a 50p tax, but we need to

make sure there are high earners are paying at least as much tax as

ordinary working families. It would be a tragedy if this Budget gave

tax cuts to the rich, leaving ordinary people struggling to make

ends meet in a worse position. the 50p is no longer sacrosanct, so

long as Liberal-Democrats feel that out of the Budget the rich are

paying more, not less? The Liberal Democrats are not intellectually

wedded to a 50 pence rate of tax, but we do believe that those with

the broadest shoulders should bear the greatest burden. At the moment

it is the poor and medium-sized income earners who need the support.

People who are having to make decisions between heating and

eating. The very interesting, thank you.

You can see a full list of the candidates who have declared they

want to stand as the mayor on the BBC news website.

Lindsay Duncan is one of our most celebrated actresses. A double

Olivier winner, she's as at home on stage with the RSC as she is in the

Tardis playing the Doctor's assistant. She made a memorable

movie star in the latest Ab Fab, and she starred as Margaret

Thatcher for the BBC a few years ago. I looked back at it and she

was, I thought, just a little more formidable than Meryl Streep.

Lindsay Duncan has had great success in the plays of Noel Coward

and has just returned to London's West End in a sparkling revival of

Hay Fever. Welcome. Noel Coward, 90 years since this first appeared in

London, and it still works, doesn't it? It still works, I think all his

plays still work. This was an early one, he was a young man when he

wrote it, but the wit holds up every time. It is about a name or

all-party family inviting their friends... For a perfect family.

And you are the sort of chatelaine... Yes, really quite

bohemian. It is crazy what is going on, if you think this was written

in the 19 20s. The family have all invited a date, and they swap. They

torture their guests and behave really badly with the sort of

enormous appetite for life which is enviable. I was wondering whether

Noel Coward is difficult to play. He famously said to actors to say

the lines and not trip over the furniture! He said about hay fever

that he thinks it is one of his most difficult plays because

nothing happens. There is all sorts of behaviour will stuff and a great

deal of performance going on, but there is no narrative so everybody

has got to be at the top of their game. Judith, your character, she

is monstrous in some ways and very funny but there is real pain

underneath it, isn't there? I hope there is something there, otherwise

she is just spinning plates. I think you have to believe in the

existence of these people. She is so badly behaved, and it is very

funny, very delicious. Very naughty. She can't bear boredom for one

second, which makes being in the country a little to London for her,

so yes, she is, yes. You are in this drama, White heat, which

starts in the 60s, and 15 years ago this week Bob Dylan's first album

appeared, the Beatles were releasing their early stuff, the

Rolling Stones were getting together - do you remember the 60s

very well? I do, I was having a great time. I was at school for

most of the 60s, so when I it emerged I managed to catch-up a

little bit. But the time he didn't realise what an extraordinary

period it was, because when you are a young you are discovering the

world, saying the music is amazing, the drugs, the alcohol, the sex, it

is all amazing but I didn't realise what a formative time it was.

funny, in the TV series they have to keep putting up posters to

remind younger viewers. That poster is about feminism, it is quite

funny. Talking of historical figures, just about, Margaret

Thatcher I mentioned at the beginning. You played a very

brilliant Margaret Thatcher. It was most on like the Meryl Streep film,

but it seems to be made for a British audience who knew about

Geoffrey Howe and Michael Heseltine, and knew some more detail. Yes, we

didn't go for the impersonation, and obviously that was a conscious

choice. Slightly alarming for me as the actress because you are worried

people will think it is because you couldn't do it, but it was a

conscious choice and an interesting one that we could wipe away -

Thatcher is so familiar to everyone here - that we could wipe away the

construction and have a look at the woman. What you did there, and the

writers did as well, it is give us the aggression and the attack.

There is a wonderful clip, where Some chancellors are macro economic.

Other Chancellor's office golf. This one is just plain cheap. If

this Chancellor can be Chancellor, anyone in the House of Commons can

be Chancellor. I don't think you were a very enthusiastic

Thatcherite yourself. I was reprimanded by the BBC. For saying

how I felt. Did your attitude changed playing her? Politically?

Empathising with the character? course I empathised with her. You

can't attempt to create anybody without finding some connection. We

were trying to unlock whom they were. Politically? Less so. A lot

less so. Reviewers said you felt sympathetic to her for the loss of

power. Viewers felt sympathetic. That was a devastating loss for her,

absolutely devastating, and anybody could understand that. It clearly

was her life. She dedicated every cell of her being to it. And also

because of the nature of that fall, which was what we examined, and it

was quite brutal and it came from inside the party. That was a kind

of tragedy. Thank you very much. That was quite a fall. Political

life is full of ups and downs and spills which takes me to buy next

guest, the Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls. You have been very, very

vociferous in your criticism of this government, but it is the case

that things are getting a little better in the economy. There were

the first faint glimmerings of spring in the economy. I hope so,

but it is very early to say that. If you go back to the American trip

last week, which David Cameron and George Osborne were on, Mr Cameron

was asked time and time again why the American economy had caught up

the up but it lost in the financial crisis and was growing strongly

with the President talking about stimulus. In Britain we are only

talking about austerity. Will we end up with a lost decade like

Japan in the 1990s? On that big strategic question, was the plan

for jobs and growth? George Osborne said a year ago I will put fuel in

the tank of the British economy. 12 months on, we are on the hard

shoulder, the economy has not grown. Yet there are some signs that

begins at -- things are beginning to turn around. If it was the case

that the figures showed that 50p rate really was not bringing in

very much money, barely worth collecting, would it be right to

ditch it and do something else? George Osborne had the courage of

his convictions, he would ask the Independent office of budget

responsibility he set up to do that examination and he has not. It is

not an independent report we will get on Wednesday. We said the top

rate of tax would raise over 1 billion in the first year, 2.5

billion in the second. Even if it was half what we were saying, that

would compensate for the cuts in tax credits to families on �17,000,

which means they will be better off on benefit. For families on middle

and low income as, or seeing petrol prices up, fuel bills up, living

standards to squeeze, youth unemployment rising, the idea that

George Osborne is saying the number one priority is to cut taxes on

people earning �150,000, they can't be serious. What planet are they

on? It is crazy. It is actually Revenue and Customs who are doing

the financial study. Why it is it not from the OBR? George Osborne

set up the OBR because he said independents in my fiscal forecasts.

This is a fiscal forecast, why didn't he trusted to the OBR? It as

a political issue. We have the Chancellor and the coalition from

scraps backbenchers. The nation needs a plan for jobs and growth.

We haven't had one for the year or two and instead, they are playing

politics with the national interest. It is not right and it will be

deeply unfair. Low-income families will look at this and say this is

out of touch with their lives and what the country needs. Your big

fiscal idea before was reversing the VAT rise. And that would cost

something like 12 billion. It has been argued there's not enough

compensation measures were you to do that. Are you coming slowly off

that? You said recently if the coalition isn't going to do that,

it should do something else. I said that on your programme three months

ago. The answer is no. Right now George Osborne's plan has failed.

He is boring �158 billion more, the economy has flat blind. There's no

growth in the economy. Unemployment is rising. We need action now. A

temporary cut in VAT for year is the best way to get the economy

moving. If the coalition says they will do personal allowances instead

of the stimulus, it's less good for women, it's less fair, it's better

than nothing, but we are in a bizarre position where George

Osborne seems to say the way I been sent a visor family on the minimum

wage is by cutting their income, taking away their tax credits, but

I in centre vies an individual on �150,000 by giving them money.

people at the top have clever tax lawyers and it is harder to get

that money. If it is just a few hundred millions, it is barely

worth doing. 1.3 billion in the first year, while the accountants

do their switching around, 2.5 billion in the second gear. On the

top rate of tax, no tax rate should be set in stone. I don't want to

see taxes higher than they can be. There are priorities. This is about

politics, it is about George Osborne playing politics with

something that is unfair. It should be about what is good for jobs and

the economy. Let's turn to that. When it comes to some of the other

proposals on tax, when it comes to things like mansion tax is, tycoon

taxes, the notion that everybody, whatever the brilliance of the tax

lawyers, should be paying a certain percentage come what may, that must

attract you? The tycoon tax is a phrase, not a plan. You would have

to looking real detail to see whether or not, legally, you can

make this work. It doesn't really work in America. On the mansion tax,

ICI's case for mansion tax. I've said to George Osborne I will work

with you to solve difficult issues. But should you do a mansion tax or

tycoon tax to help families with higher fuel bills by cutting fuel

duty or cutting VAT or do you say this is simply about cutting taxes

at the top? I don't understand why the Lib Dems have ended up saying

they will have a mansion tax to pay for the top rate of tax. This is

all a distraction. What George Osborne, Nick Clegg and David

Cameron are comfortable with it is a debate about money from here to

there because what they are not comfortable about is the Big Issue,

what is happening to unemployment, growth. Are we in line for a lost

decade? It is not being talked about. Can I ask you about another

big issue which has come to the top of the agenda? The notion that

regional pay should be broken down, instead of national pay bargaining,

if you are living in a part of the country where the cost of living is

lower and you are working in the public sector, you should be paid

less than public sector workers living in an expensive place like

London. Good idea? There's regional variation now. The view I have

always taken, and has been taken consensually in Britain for 30

years, is the pay review bodies nationally are a better way of

delivering flexibility while keeping a lid on costs. I worry

George Osborne is going for a free- for-all, hospital against hospital,

it would cost more. It also takes us in the opposite direction. We

should be saying that we want to spread economic prosperity across

the country rather than saying to people, you only get a decent pay

as a doctor as a nurse if you come to London. That takes us in the

opposite direction. George Osborne is playing politics, appealing to

his backbenchers, but it could cost him more and be unfair and take his

strategy in the opposite direction from where we should be going.

important is it to stop any increase in fuel prices? The

coalition has done quite a lot to hold down fuel prices, but it isn't

a very, very difficult problem with international oil prices. -- it is.

Why don't you ask George Osborne what happened a his fair fuel

regulator? He has talked to you on previous programmes. A year gave he

said I will have a fair fuel regulator. A year on, petrol prices

are higher than a year ago. The oil prices higher. Where is his

regulator? He says he can't do anything. The VAT cut would mean a

cut in petrol prices. Credit easing, the Regional Growth Fund, fuel

regulator, George Osborne talks. Nothing has happened on any of

these things. You must be frustrated talking about these

things and then looking back at the opinion polls and seeing that the

coalition is far more trusted on the economy than you why. Why do

you think that is as back a look at those polls and see all politicians

have a problem at the moment. of us are trusted to sort out this

mess at the moment. We had an election defeat. George Osborne was

given the benefit of the doubt. He said he had a plan. On the big

judgments, going too far, too fast, action on jobs. The arguments we

have made are in line with public opinion. If you get the judgments

right, you win through. If you get them wrong, you fail. His judgments

are flawed. The public agree with that. Thank you for now. The budget

is always a big parliamentary event and the Chancellor always keeps a

few surprises. Frantic briefing encounter briefing begins the

moment he sits down. This year the detailed negotiations that precede

every Budget have been played out more publicly than usual as the Lib

Dems and Conservatives flag up there different priorities. George

Osborne reveals all this Wednesday. But he is with us now to reveal...

We will see! Thank you for joining us. Can I start by asking whether

you actually already know what is going to be in your Budget or

whether there are still negotiations that have to follow

tomorrow when you meet the Lib Dems? I have read a lot of the

speculation. You always get speculation about budgets.

different level this year. remember whole budget been leaked

before they were given. We sent the major measures to the OBR last

Monday and the major decisions were taken a week ago. We put the

finishing touches to it on Friday. Now the Office for Budget

Responsibility, which does the independent audit of the measures

and the fiscal forecasts and how much of the thing will cost, they

have had everything they need. We will discuss tomorrow how we

present the Budget and the language around the Budget speech. Decisions

or taken? Decisions or taking a week ago. I have been reading for a

week that these decisions have not been taken, but they have. He

Britain's AAA rating is very important to you. We have a had two

agencies talking about the possibility of a downgrade. Given

that this is about credibility of the government's policy, how do you

feel about the fact that so much is being argued about in public? One

side of the coalition is saying we want this, the other side saying we

want that, that can't help. There's always speculation around budgets.

All I can say is first of all, this is a coalition Budget. We are a

coalition government. We have a proper process. I sit down with the

leaders of the Lib Dems in order to make sure they are happy with the

Budget we are presenting and that is entirely up -- entirely proper.

You have been happy with the way they have been behaving with the

media? It is fine for people to argue their corner. You will know

the stories because you have studied politics. There have been

many stories and the past of prime minister has not been told what is

in the Budget until Budget week, Chancellors finishing the Budget at

4am on Budget day. This is now a much more orderly process. Orderly

Cons mack -- Audsley? Really? People are saying different things.

It is perfectly reasonable in a coalition that you get supporters

of the two parties stressing the things they want to stress. But at

the heart of government, at the top of government, with the Lib Dem

leadership, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury is a Liberal Democrat,

he has been party to the internal discussions, what you see is a

coalition working to produce a coalition Budget. Because it is a

coalition Budget, it will satisfy a broader range of public opinion.

You're not worried about public trading? I'm not worried at all.

The major measures were decided a week ago. What I think you will see

on Wednesday it is a Budget for working people, a Budget that shows

Britain can earn its weight in the world, if a Budget that says

Britain is not content with being in the second rank of economic

power was, we want to be in the front rank and we are prepared to

confront our problems to create jobs, growth and prosperity and a

brighter future for the next Would it be fair, given the state

of the economy, if this object helped higher rate taxpayers more

than everybody else? -- this Budget. I am not going to go into details...

But the point of principle? priority is to help low and middle

earners. We want to see real and substantial progress on lifting low

income people out of tax. We have already taken 1 million low income

people out of tax, and helping working families, people providing

for their families, looking for jobs if they have lost them, those

are our priorities in this Budget. That is where the bulk of measures

are directed. Gordon Brown and Ed Balls created 50p top rate, has it

worked as a tax? We will be getting an assessment in a couple of days'

time from the Inland Revenue... Have you seen it? I have... So has

it worked? We will see the report in a couple of days. Ed Balls in

his interview said why have I asked the Inland Revenue to assess these

things. First of all, they are not a bad group of people to ask, but

any forecast for the tax is already being levied is something that is

now being produced by an independent body. I know that is

alien to the Treasury that Ed Balls was in, but we do have an

independent referee on the measures we take and the measures already in

existence. I come back to my question because you have seen the

figures, I am just wondering if you think it has worked as a tax.

just don't think I should talk about specific taxes today. It is

just a couple of days before the Budget, and to his right that I it

unveil what we are doing and not doing on Budget day. A As you know,

the opposition are hoping he will cut the 50 pence rate so you -- so

they can jump on year and say you are helping the rich. Our priority

is to help low and middle earners, we want to make sure this country

works its way in the world. Our efforts to reduce the deficit have

been vindicated by events on the Continent. Now we have to say

Britain has got to earn its weight in the world. We have had high

debts, cheap finance, the boom in the city of London, they masked the

fact that Britain was becoming less and less competitive. We have got

to turn that situation around. The illusion of the cheap money is over

and now Britain has to go and graft and create wealth and prosperity in

a very competitive world. A bit we had been sitting here only six

weeks ago, we would have been talking about the European euro

crisis. That seems to have calmed down a little bit, it is early days,

but at the moment the worry seems to be international oil prices. Can

you do anything for the motorist and the businesses screaming now at

the price of diesel? I know the coalition has done quite a bit in

the past, is are there any hope for more? I would say two things - the

situation in the eurozone is better than it was before Christmas. A

Christmas we were almost expecting the banks to fail. Just because

there is a lot of money going into the eurozone, it does not mean a

lot of fundamental problems have been resolved. That remains the

risk, and the impact of that crisis has had a bigger effect on many

European economies then we have perhaps hoped. The second thing I

would say on oil prices, that is another risk to the economy at the

moment. In America, we spent a lot of time talking to the US President

and the Treasury Secretary about it. Of course it affects the cost of

living. I have taken substantive action to make things easier for

people, petrol is six pence cheaper than it would have been, from April

it is 10 pence cheaper than it would have been if we had stuck

with Ed Balls' plan. The international oil price is going up,

partly because of the Iranian situation, but also because many

more people around the world have cars. That is why we need to get

the renewable energy going so we are not so dependent on oil. A one

of the things people will say, endless talk about having more

nuclear power stations, but nothing ever happens because of the

planning system. That is not just true of the energy policy, because

we are a small island with areas of natural beauty and so on, it is

just too difficult to get things done in this country. I agreed and

it is deeply frustrating that plans have held back economic development.

I was talking to a major global company who said it takes a third

of the time to build a warehouse in Germany than it does in Britain. I

am determined that we shake-up planning rules so that we protect

the green belt, protect precious green spaces, but will also allow

businesses to expand and people to have decent homes and children to

be able to afford a home when they grow up. These are priorities. On

Budget week we will be publishing new planning rules which I think

will make it a lot easier for things to get built in this country

whilst protecting our precious environment. The Sunday Times

pointed out this morning how many tycoons and others have been

avoiding tax by offshore companies owning properties of different

kinds. It was said not so long ago the super rich should be made to

pay more. The question of tax loopholes is angering people more

than it has ever done. understand that, and all sections

of society should be paying their fair share. Whatever your headline

rate of tax, the question is how much tax people are paying. There

are people who put homes in two companies to avoid stamp duty, that

is completely unacceptable. We will come down on that practise like a

ton of bricks. We will be extremely aggressive in dealing with it, and

people will face a very punitive charge because it is unacceptable

when you are buying a home that you are going to live in, it is a very

simple test, you're going to live in the home, we will have new

measures in the Budget on this. We will deal with this avoidance on

stamp duty, and people have had their warning. We will be dealing

with it in a very aggressive way. Whether we use the term tycoon tax

or not, is there are also a general determination to make sure people

who can afford expensive accountants, they have been able to

avoid paying tax in all sorts of ways and there should be some sort

of ceiling on the amount of tax people pay, or floor rather?

wanted to make sure the better people -- the better-off people in

our society are paying the tax, whether they are paying the rate.

We are going to take measures to make sure the loopholes and some of

the reliefs in the system are not exploited. I have been doing that

consistently for the last two years. It has not been in the headlines,

but we took action against the banks using loopholes. I have

always been prepared to do that because it does offend people when

they see some parts of society getting away with not paying much

tax. We have talked a lot about people at the top, another big

worry is the removal of child benefit from people whose incomes

are not very large in many cases, who feel you should do something to

help them. I understand that people on income to of �45,000 did not

feel particularly rich, they feel under pressure. They are in the

better off 15% of families and if we were not doing something on

child benefit for the people at the top of the income distribution,

that section of the public would be doing nothing to contribute to the

fiscal situation. Everyone needs to make a contribution. How we

implement the policy is something you will discover on Wednesday.

Thank you. Now the news headlines. At the Chancellor of the Exchequer

has told this programme that the Budget this week will be for

working people. George Osborne said his priority was to help those

people on low and middle incomes. He promised new measures to clamp

down on tax avoidance. The shadow chancellor, Ed Balls, accused him

of playing politics with the decisions in the Budget saying

George Osborne is uncomfortable about talking about growth and

unemployment. For Premier League footballer,

Fabrice Muamba, remains critically ill in intensive care after

collapsing on the pitch yesterday. He fell to the ground with no

players around him during the match during -- between Tottenham Hotspur

and Bolton Wanderers. The next news is from midday. Now, let's look at

what is coming up after this programme. Joining us in Leicester,

where we will be asking - has the Church of England reached a

crossroads? And, is animal testing ever justified? Also, are many gods

better than one? George Osborne and Ed Balls are

still with me. The other issue we have not talked about is the story

about Sunday trading being extended for a period to get people spending

again - a good idea? If I think it is a good idea. We have the whole

world coming to London and the rest of the country for the Olympics. It

would be a great shame if the country had a closed for business

sign on it on Sundays. It is just for the Sundays during the Olympic

Games and the Paralympics. Maybe we will learn lessons from it, but it

is just for the Olympic Games. it is just for the Olympics, there

should be a consultation done properly. George Osborne's people

told the papers this is an experimentation for the future.

Today, there are mothers at home with their kids because Sunday

trading means they will have the day off. We should be careful about

breaking it just like that. You are sounding more like social

conservative, and you are sounding more like a social liberal. I want

people to have the opportunity to visit shops, grow the economy

during the Olympics. If it works, you might extend it? At the moment

I am proposing we do this for the Olympic Games and the Paralympic

Games. He has said it could be extended. Have run out of time, but

thank you very much indeed. Next week our guests include David