16/09/2012 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning, and welcome. As we all gear up for the party

conferences, we're all enjoying the spectacle of a retiring, self-deep

reKateing blonde talk stalking our Prime Minister, the poll votes

Boris Johnson the most popular politician.

Boris famously said there's nor chance of him being reincarated as

an olive as being properly. The other day, I speared an olive, and

I believe it said "my dear, who claim claim". And Europe editor of

Time magazine, and columnist to Tony Blair. Fear of rebellion,

stalked the conference season, warned the Observer today. Tory MPs

are telling Cameron improve or you're out. It is tough being the

leader of the Conservative Party, as this man knows, 20 years ago to

Black Wednesday, John Major is here to talk about the eurozone, and

classical era, we could get tips on him to keeping dissident at bay.

Today is the last day at work, for the BBC's outgoing director again,

after the cut in the funding, Mark Thompson agreed to and rouse over

big salaries to top xex and gaffs, how does the DG assess the highs

and lows of the past eight years, and what does he think of the

fewture of television itself? We'll be asking the legendary, movie

mogul, Harvey Weinstein, Pulp scam fiction, why on earth his project

is a theatre production in Leicester. Plus, here, excellent

music. You can see them in the middle, that's fresh from

performing from the Paralympics and Africa express tour, we have the

The Noisettes. First though, over to Ris for this morning's news

headlines. Thank youed six NATO troops, two British have been

killed by men wearing Afghan uniforms, the two members of the

3rd Battlion The Yorkshire Regiment were shot at a checkpoint in the

south of Nahr-e Saraj district in Helmand Province. Their families

have been informed, in another incident, four NATO soliders were

shot, near the border with Pakistan. The United States has ordered all

non-essential staff and families to leave the embassies in Sudan and

Tunisia. The decision is made because of violent protests, about

a video, made in America, which offended Muslims around the world.

The US ambassador to Libya was one of several people killed. One of

the bosses of the Irish newspaper, which published topless photographs,

says he will do what he can to shut down the paper. A third publication,

says it will print the pictures. As the royal couple continue their

tour, a third publication said it will print the pictures, an Italian

magazine, is planning to publish the photos tomorrow. A promising

young rugby player was among three men from the same family killed dem

a farming accident in Hillsborough in Northern Ireland. 22-year-old,

neveren Expense, died along withlies father and brother, after

falling in a slurry tank. His sister is treated in hospital.

Plans to reform school exams in England, will be revealed by the

Government on Tuesday. The Education Secretary, Michael Gove

and Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, will announce GCSEs will be

scrapped. The replacement qualification will not be taught

until 2015. That's all from me for now, I'll be back before 9.30.

Thank you. Many thanks. Now to the front pages, as usual,

lots and lots of coverage, still of those pictures, everybody in angry

those pictures, everybody in angry mode. "Kate it is pure greed, says

the Sun. The Sunday Mirror is in punitive form "jail them for

hurting my Kate" it says. Lots more coverage of that ta as well.

Photographs on virtually every paper. Mail on Sunday "at last

dumbed down, exams are axed, ""saying O-levels are coming back,

but not until after the next election, to Michael Gove's

irritation, probably. Then you have the Sunday Telegraph

here, another, Prince story, two Princes, saying Prince Harry was

the target in the fatal Taliban attacks in Afghanistan. Sunday

Times says there's more pictures, 200 pictures, of the Duchess, one

of the Italian magazines says it has. Two stories, here, hilarious

story, about Lord Hill,ed Education Minister, who tried to quit the

Government, tried to resign, but David Cameron wasn't listening to

him. Instead of accepting, he praiseed him for his hard work,

told him to carry on and strode him out of the room. The man is in the

office, and there are 100 adult cod left in the North Sea. Catherine

and Phil thank you both for coming in. We will have to talk about the

pictures, enormous row heating up? The two royal stories, you have the

one hand, Kate being shot at by cameras, and Harry shot at by real

things. It is remarkable the picture story

is absolutely everywhere, and knocking the other one out in most

cases. It is demonstrating, a very interesting thing about modern

celebrity, on one hand, self- regulation has worked, that there

is lots of coverage, but no pictures, in a country with a

privacy law, they're everywhere. It remains to be seen. In the story in

all the papers is the anger and legal action that will follow. It

will be interesting test case, whether that has any impact at all.

It suggests this is very much going back to Diana, and this is, Prince

William's memories of what happened to his mother, that drives the

determination to go to court and push ra push? That's right. And

there's some high octane rhetoric coming out of St James's Palace, it

is firing the story on. Because there's not a lot more happened in

the story. Do you think it is all a bit much? I was going to say,

there's an awful lot of anger around this morning, and I'm sorry

around this morning, and I'm sorry to add to it, but this makes me

cross That there is so much space, devoted to the stories, and that

we're enenabling a phoney debate here. First of all, just on the

point about space, to me the most important story in the world is the

tax on US institutions, and but, in the wake of the film: YouTube film,

made by a dodgy character who has now been arrested? Which, we will

talk about. However, just before that, in terms of the debate we're

now having, it is such a phoney outrage, the Sun's head line about

"greed". This is an strin of outrage about these pictures, these

pictures, are a commodity. The debate the really important debate

about press freedoms, the Leveson Inquiry has sought to look into,

has sort of hijacked by this bizarre notion about what it's

important to print and what isn't and where press freedoms lie and

where they don't. You agree it was wrong to take the pictures, and

wrong to publish them. But it is the level of obsession, and

hysteria around the store, is that right? And people who would have

otherwise glady published them, but post-Leveson world will now not do

so. They're filling the photos in formulations rather than photos.

Isn't that good, that one time they would have thought something and

now they think another, haven't they got position from indefensible

to one that is defensible. It is a position, that is possibly better

than it was, it is not going to stop whoever took the photos were

making a lot of money out of them. We have in some of the columnists,

we have "hang on a minute, isn't this all a bit much" and Janet

Porter is inching towards that. Then we move on to the story, the

attacks around the world on US embassies. And not just in America,

Germany and other embassies, in the West have been attacked too?

have to get this, this is a story, in the Observer, about the arrest

in the Observer, about the arrest of somebody who Probably made the

movie. And who describes himself as a corporateic Christian. But you

have to get right to the middle of the Observer and other papers, even

to get any of this coverage at all today. It is, an interesting story,

but one of the things that is interesting about the story, is the

way in which of the different party to the Parliament have used it for

their own end. So, what this tiny little film that would never have

been noticed, has been seized upon by different extremes. The culture

of complaint, people looking for something to be angry about,

desperate to be angry. And this is particularly relevant, because this

is also, 20 years after the fatwa? And Joseph an ton has written his

memoirs, that was the name that Rushdie was given. He was written

the recollections of that time and a lot more besides, it is a memoir

of reflection on his life too. It is the same basic question, here is

a work of art, critique of a religion, and extraordinary storm

followed after it. And it divided people, which side were you on.

This is fascinating reflection on that. I got a chance to interview

him tomorrow, to start the week. What is interesting, is that I

don't think he had any idea of what he was setting off when it started.

If you ask the question, who won, who won the culture wars, there's

that much self-Ken soreship, it is not clear who won. Let's turn to

another American story, domestic politics. It looks like Obama is

starting to be a leader? The last sets of polls, have shown a lead

for Obama. But, one the things that was interesting, we've just gone

through convention season in the States. And of course, Mitt did not

get the bounce from the convention that Obama got. But the other thing

of course, is that we're through it, and he is the, Mitt Romney has

officially been declared the candidate, the perception is that

he may be changing, and reverting back to who he is. And who he is,

is somebody who is possibly a lot more liberal than the tea party

tendencies happy with. The story I found interesting is a small story

on the inside of the Sunday Times here, about his sister, being

sidelineed. She, apparently, came to a campaign event, and asked a

question about his stance on abortion and said he is pro-choice.

Which is not the message? It is very much not the message, and

embarrassing relatives are the fun features of any campaign. It is the

standard journey of American campaigning, you campaign to the

party in the first part and when you come to win, you campaign back

to the country, I think Mitt Romney has shown himself in the later

phase, rather than the former. He always looked unfortunately, but it

is too late. Obama has been always been ahead. We need to keep

cracking on. Let come, back home. With the kofrplgs season about to

start. There's all - conference season about to start. There's an

interesting Observer front page, to what could be the next big policy

blowup, which is IDS's welfare bill. Firstly it is hugely dependent on

somebody goes in the Department of Work and Pensions, presses a button

and a computer comes on and everything works per effectly. It's

never happened before, but that's what they rely on, the machine that

goes ping. The whole loads of things, that they're trying to get

people who are working, and go to the adviser and work more. In the

absence of no jobs, that's a forlorn q Big story there. You pibd

the Cabinet reshuffle as well. But, we got to talk about the

Conservative story? Well Well I picked the sexist reshuffle, forces

women to bottom of power list. There is apparently a list that is

put out, that gives order of precedence for ministers, so you

know, if you're not high on the list, then of to become at the beck

and call to visit them in their office. So the few women who got

through, they're not only a few number, but low on the list, my

feeling about the sexist Cabinet reshuffle is it tells a bigger

story about the lack of women in politics, in public positions, and

retaining female talent is the big issue here. We have to talk about

Boris mania. It has taken over lots of middle parts of the papers at

least? Absolutely, Talk us through, there is genuine dissent inside the

Conservative Party in Parliament about the Prime Minister, there's a

group of relatively small group, but vocal and pushy people who

would like to see to be shot of David Cameron? They're loose

tongueed over the weekend, every paper careies an anonymous quotes

to that effect. One person is quoted that is suggesting Graham

Brady one of the famous men is a possible leader in the Conservative

Party, in the event they got rid of David Cameron. I have nothing

against Brady, but when you get that kind of talk, you realise they

are in a peculiar place. And Boris is at the centre of this. He will

turn up to the conference, he will speak on how to win, and how to

beat Labour, it is going to be the big moment of the conference.

you not think he does have lessons to teach politicians about how to

win. I don't know if he has lessons to people how to govern. Very good

point. If I were him that's what I would do. The Boris is to confound

expectations, stand up and do a serious speech about governing.

is going to be quite a frenetic odd feeling party season. In the

Observer, the point is made one of the things about a coalition, you

can have two leaders under Chancellor eng, but you have Vince

Cable, who is on the show last week, at the Liberal Democrats and then

you'll get everybody, following the blonde hair around the Tory week.

The Liberal Democrats have held up reasonably well in their discipline,

through terrible times. Will this be the week in which the discipline

cracks? Do they start to think about Vince. I think that would be

a mistake, the only strategy is to behind the leader and be the

Government. Just before we leave this, because

we're running out of time. Strictly come dance something back,

all over the papers, I think. Got it there.

As is Downton Abbey, I should say. Strictly, this is a fun piece,

because they're actually passing the formula, that they've used to

select the shrictry contenders. And Vince Cable, we would have like to

see Vince in strictly. I don't know about. And Boris. They'd be

excellent. Maybe that's the answer. You have Jerry Hall is the older

woman, you have your older man, they're trying. I have a fan of

Strictly, when you see the joins of the formula, that's where the

programme starts to decline, they have to be careful, because they're

easily slotted into the roles here. Agree. At least I know who they are

this time. Maybe that's the answer to the party leaders, persuade them

to go on Strictly. Weather now. Much of the country's wall lowing,

in the sparkles of our Indian summer. The best month of the year,

September, but for how much longer. Let's go to the weather studio.

Good morning. You can run but you can't hide. The worden on the lips,

will be Autumn as the weather acknowledge sell rates its change

of seasons. Today there's cloud around compared to yesterday. And

although it is dry at the Great North Run start line, at lunch time,

we'll see wind coming through. But these are decent temperatures for

the runners. Heavier rain in north west England and North Wales

through the day to the north of that, sunshine, blustery showers,

to the south of that, it is mainly dry, despite the cloud. We'll take

a look at things at 4.00, these are beefy showers, risk of hail and

thunder, brightness in between, but gusty winds. Heavy rain and lasting

well on through the day, north west England and North Wales, but the

rain taking time to get to south- east Wales. So rain arriving later,

with sunshine. We'll see bright or sunny spells frighting will you the

cloud in southern England. But not as warm as yesterday. A cooler

night tonight. Blustery, hechive showers tomorrow. Cloud increasing,

across the rest of England and Wales, but mainly dry. Week ahead,

some sunshine at times but blustery showers, especially in the north.

Cool days, and chilly nights to Cool days, and chilly nights to

come as well. Well that's not too bad. The BBC achieved record

rateings in the Olympics, 27 million people watched the Opening

Ceremony and human audiences for performances like Mo Farah, it was

the culmination of Mark Thompson's eight years of jecttor general

tomorrow. He hands the baton on to George. Although he leaves on the

high of the Games he's had his fair share of arguments.

The media environment is changing, drastically and Mark Thompson joins

me now. Welcome. Let's start if we may talking about the BBC. I guess

the Olympics, were the highlight. The best was at the end? I thought

this summer was amazing. And I thought it showed how close, the

BBC and British public are. It was, the coverage of the sport itself.

Those 24 channels so people could choose and watch everything they

wanted. But it was an amazing moment for the country and we were

there in the right way. The cultural Olympiad, had a amazing

properly season, Shakespeare, and Parade's End running now. But

everything, I hoped and prayed it would be, it came good.

On the down side, I guess the Rustle Brand was of your hardest

was it? To be honest, by far the most difficult thing that happened

was the Alan Johnson kidnapping, when somebody's life at stake. It

is a completely different thing. But of course, Jonathan s are

ussell loomed large. With an organisation like BBC when you're

broadcasting, tens and thousands of life hours, and presenters do crazy

things, you're going to have problems. And sometimes, you'll

find things that are wrong. What we talk to the public, it is

interesting, even if in the middle of the Ross Brand row, or the

competition row, the public said they trusted the BBC to understand

this is wrong and put it right. That's how you're judged, whether

wuck discripple thait and work out the boundaries, and if you go over

the boundary to act romently. - promptly. If you take the

newspapers and phone hacking years go by, and it is not clear the

people behind it, understood it was wrong. If the BBC is held to a high

level of accountability, what about the money question, you got stick

for your salary, presenters got stick, and general feeling,

certainly, in the first half of your tenure, that there were too

many xextives paid too much, was that a fair criticism? What's the

dilemma. The dilemma is the public want to the BBC to be the best

broadcaster, in the world, I think we are. You want the best people in

front of the camera and microphone and behind the cam ka are a. And it

is true, the public mood changed and the market changed in

immediatea. And I think, what you would have seen over this time, is

I, and the governing body, BBC trust, responding promptly. I don't

think there is another public institution, to address what I

would regard legitimate public concern on this. When you heard,

your 850,000, was too much, did you think, hold on a minute, the mood

in the country has changed, and actually, they have a point and I

have to really, consider this. joined the director-general in 2004.

This was day one, awaiveed, all bonusesings I've never taken a

bonus, because there's a sensitivity about public servants

taking bonuses, my pay has gone down in 40%, what the BBC tries to

do, in the way it runs itself is sensitive, again, to what its

owners, the brick public think. There's no question, what we have

avenue seen over the eight years, tovering do with public life, a

change in attitude about these things, and we try to respond to.

Your successor is getting half? BBC will continue to wrestle with

that challenge. How do you get the best, the best sports rights,

presenters and creative leaders, and do that in a way that is

acceptable to the public. Overhanging all of this, is the

effective 2017 real terms cut in what the BBC's got. Is this as bad

as it can get for the BBC, without starting to lose services in large

numbers? My view, this was my view in 2010 when the license settlement

was reached in short order was the BBC was asked, to make 16% cuts in

four years, very much in line with what the British Museum, National

Gallery and theatre. Those culture institutions which in many ways,

the Government was trying to protect in a tough period, the BBC

was being asked to do the same n the end, you can't want to be the

national broadcaster, and go through some of the same pain as

the rest of the country. What I do think, the cuts were achievable

without a loss in quality, but we're getting close to the edge now

there. Are many parts of the BBC, we saw the controversy about local

radio, where, when you look around the operation, it is hard to see

what more you could cut. I would hope, when the funding comes up for

discussion, in 2010-2016, it is recognised if you want a BBC with

high quality it has to be paid for. This is your last day in office,

from their perspective, what's the future of television? We have lots

and lots of younger people who barely watch television in the old

way these days? You put your finger on it, TV is changing, people want

choice when to watch a programme, the I player has revolutionised

that. How they watch it, devices, the smartphones, tablets. And

choice in their hands. The 24 channels in the Olympics, people

deciding themselves, and being their own schedule and controller.

But the fundamental point, do people want to connect with

television. There's no evidence in the UK or around the world, that

television is going out of tile. People's fascination with live

television, and great entertainment, that's undiminished. Do you think,

BBC and other organisations will cease to be broadcaster, and be

publishers, makers of programmes and people can get them in 101

different ways? I don't. In the way the broadcaster, may be an obsolete

term, plusher may be as well. BBC news, even today, BBC news, is a

kind of cloud of information. People often forget how they heard

a news story, was it Blackberry or iPhone or screen on work, already

we're begining to see multi-media use of news. And we will ale see

that more and more. The idea of gathering public money together to

pay for, and to be pooled to create any quality content. Be it at the

BBC or New York Times, I believe that quality, is going to be one of

the real discriminatetors in this period. Thank you very much for

that. You're off to New York, very soon? Yeah. I'm starting properly

in November, but I'll spend a bit of time there. You're married to a

American? I'm a Brit, through and through, and a proud one.

Now then, my next guest, person fies what most would imagine a

Hollywood director to be, a hot tempered force of nature who always

gets his way. Harvey Weinstein's successes with Miria Max are legend,

Pulp Fiction, Others, is now he's turning to stage, opening in

Leicester. I asked him why he had chosen

Leicester, that particular location. It's got incredible equipment. It's

got incredible stage, fabulous rehearsal facility and I hear

fantastic audiences, we'll find out Saturday night when we open. If

they're really fantastic or run us out of town. But you know, we're

finding never land the movie, was something that Jonnie Depp said

remains in England. When we made the movie, we felt it was English,

because of Peter Pan, andity origin. So, we're flying the Union Jack.

You're a film guy, but you're more interested in musicals in

particular. If they were, they could make a lot of money, and get

bums on seats? And you can make more money in the movie business.

But, it is not for that reason. I although it can be probably. I'm

interested in theatre in general. And you know, I have all the people

who should say that, my first theatre experience was when I was

eight years old, I saw the Sound of Music, the minute I saw the nuns, I

ran out of theatre and my dad saw me watching Gold Finger. So how I

came to like theatre I have no idea. But, this movie meant a lot of to

mini-. And I want to have a second life. Let's have a look at Finding

# Sad sail on an adventure # Too some far away land

# It is all in your imagination # Name the place and at your

command # Africa, India #

You mentioned England and Britain, you've been, interested in the

British culture, from the get-go. I'm thinking of going back to the

Secret Policeman's Balance, where you and your brother start in the

film industry, and through to films like Shakespeare In Love. Is there

a part of you, that is interested in the British thing? I have to

tell you, Andrew, that, when I was a kid, his my eye pokeed out, and I

must have looked like qausy modeo, because they didn't let me go to

school. Timely, I got bored of the soap operas, and I want to do my

homework, and teach me about reading to my neighbour. A lot of

the books was great British authors, she had me on a good schedule. And

I've always been in love with the literature of England, and I love

England's appreciation for words. And the film crews in England and

technical people, are probably the best in the world. You have a

Mittic status in the film industry. Particularly around independent

films. You're pretty tough when it comes to reshaping film. What makes

a good film, do you have a formula in your head, or is it different

for every film? When you have the bits in front of you, what makes

the final product work? Well, last week, Paul Anderson, talked about

skat the Master, which broke all box office records this week, the

highest art house per screen, ever. And, you know, he gave me, he said

Harvey's notes were extensive, I took them all, they were good.

Dusten Hoffman said the same. I'm from the old school of where you

test a movie, do you it, you watch it with an audience, even if it's

an Esso teric work, I find to reach an audience. I'm brutal and more

charming than you give me credit for Andrew.

The Master, will not please the Scientology community. You've had

to increase your protection, because of that, is that true?

I'm at liberty to say, but let's say there's a difference of opinion

from their side to our side. And we just want to make sure, that

there's no trouble. The movie deals with more than that. It deals with

the journey of soldiers after World War II, who drift in and out of the

cults and stuff like that. But Paul has admitted it is based on the

early works of Albert. It is controversialal movie and for

anybody who is interested in the cults and that thing, you'll find

this movie fascinating. It is an important subject. Let me ask you

about a very, famous movie, Pulp Fiction, because after the recent

shootings in the it is suggested you feel now, that there is too

much violence in a lot of movies, and that it probably does have an

effect. It is suggested you're asking Quentin to tone down the

violence in some of his movies? glad we got a chance to clear that

up. All I said was, because I have made movies with violences, after

the shootings, we said let's get a seminar and find out. I've never

asked him to cut, it is my longest partnership in the industry and my

best. I would like to sit with Quentin, and Anderson, and many of

the great directors, now working, and let's just sit with the experts,

because if we're doing something wrong I want to find out. If it

doesn't mean anything, it is carry on, business as usual. Why not find

out. So there are a number of people, trying to put together a

seminar, and I'm hoping for, this year, sun Dan film festival where

we invite the directors, psychiatrists, and educators.

sounds fascinating. Last question, you've been help raise money for

President Obama's campaign, in your waters, how do you feel is going on

in the campaign, what will happen? I was here for the Olympic week,

and I must say, that Boyle's ceremony was the most unbelieveable

thing to watch, it made me proud of England, and I married an English

girl and it was incredible. But I witnessed, Prime Minister, David

Cameron said to a group of people, that Mitt Romney had the unique

distinct of uniteing all England against him, with his various

remarks, so, on maf of my love of England I have to support the

President. Who, is anything but making fau pas, he is's strong and

smart. Mitt Romney didn't want to launch the missile to kill Osama

Bin Laden. He was clear, the President did that. Strong on

foreign policy, and at the end of the day, Mitt Romney is the same as

Bush. There's a wonderful movie that we're associated with in

America, which is opening in England, called the Untouchable.

And it is broken every box office record in the world, it is from

France, it is absolutely, I know this sounds like a commercial, but,

your money back folks, if we don't find the movie, transformational.

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Back here, 20 years ago

to the day, Black Wednesday, blew a hole in the Conservative Government

of Sir John major, a man who had the most unusual family backgrounds

of any modern Prime Minister. His mother and father, a man during

Queen Victoria's reign was music hall artists. Music hall is a lost

world, killed off by the cinema and television and roorks but perhaps

its spirit lives on. Sir John Major has written a book about it all.

You called this book, My Old Man, and that's where it start. Your

father was a music hall arist, he toped the bill at the time, he was

a substantial figure in his way? But he was in Music Hall up to 1930.

I wouldn't climate all he was one of the greats at music hall, he

wasn't. But he and then wife kitty, dependable, very good, always

working, on the Bill with most of the greats at some time or another

rplt and then formed their own show and toped the bill. So he passed

many stories about those days. is a lost world, we will never know

quite what they were like, because most weren't recorded until late on.

But, give us a tense of the range of performers, who you describe in

this book? I learned, quite a lot about it at my father's bedside

when he was old and ill. I was his audience as a small by, he was in

his 06s when I was born. He would talk about his life on the stage,

and the greats, both he worked with, and the perhaps, that he'd seen and

not worked with. But Music Hall had a range T might be singing comic

songs, comedians, animal acts, monologueists, black face acts,

almost anything you could think of as variety today would be part of

Music Hall. And you argue, that quite a lot of what we think

sincere quintessentially British sure, from radio and television,

The Goons, has the origins, in people like Dan Leno? There's no

doubt about that. If you look how they performed, what they did, and

what we know, a great deal has been handed down. Humour is continuous,

what amuses the British psyche, a hundred years ago, tends to tickle

it 20. Yes it has been handed down. They were astonishing characters.

If you look at their background, some are full of pathos, they came

from nowhere. Some never got anywhere, and their lives were full

of hard hardship. Some had success and had vast sums of money, and

often died destitute. These are he mark 8 stories, of remarkable

people. They were like the stories of so many, would-be, rock stars,

touring the country, hoping to make it, a few make it, and maybe take

too many drugs and drink, and so on, later on. But it is also, like the

sort of, popular culture you see in television even now, the dance

shows and so on? Nothing is new. And a great deal is repetive. What

is different, was in those days, music Hall was the end at the same

time. It was very little to compete with it, as there is so much today.

It sunk into the psyche. In the 1940s, it was decay, it turned

revolution, potential revolution, in the 1840s, in a patriotic roar

of joy, 20 years later. It had the great days at the height of empire.

Hugely proud. Hugely patriotic, and pro-British, but fed mainly on the

lives of the people, who atepded those. And the great artists,

reflected those lives. And sang back to them, their lives and

talked about their lives. It was hard-edge? Hard edge. Some of the

social commentary has the force of a pile drive. Particularly artists

like Jenny Hill, feminist, talked about the lives of people who were

down trodden and why they were down trodden. Well worth reading about

her. Let's turn to politics recently. Music Hall is much more

fun. Nonetheless, that was the exist essential for this country.

20 Years on, we are still looking at Europe, and particularly,

concerned about what is happening to the Euro project now. How

dangerous do you think things remain? It is the longest, most

boring crisis I can remember? there are two things that are

linked, first Europe and the Euro crisis and state of the British

economy. You can't regard those as separate independentities. You have

to look at two of them. If you take Europe first, a Europe has

continuely evolved, it evolved a good deal further, towards

centralisation, because of economic failure in Europe over recent years,

than anybody imagineed in this timescale. And what you're now

seeing, out of failure, not success, is the Euro core looking to

integrate further, more towards a federal structure. Which this

country could have nothing to do with? You mentioned Black Wednesday,

but at Maastricht I opted sterling out of the eurozone, because I

didn't think the eurozone would work as fiscal union and economic

union. We are apart from that, and stay apart from that. But if the

eurozone as I believe, continue to integrate over the next ten years,

you're going in essence, within ten years, this isn't going to happen

overnight, within ten nears, you will have a Euro core, that is to

all intents and purposes, federal. Now, if that happens to a portion,

a core, of the European Union, it changes that core's relationship

with the rest of the European Union. And if they do that, the rest of

the European Union, may feel it is appropriate to change their

relationship with the core, and with the European Union as a whole.

I think that offers an opportunity for us to clean up one of the long-

running sores of British politics, which is the nature of our

relationship with Europe. That would have to be a referendum F it

was a treaty? If it was a treaty, of course it would. It would do in

due course. The British economy, directly, these are grim times.

This is the third quarter of technical recession, and Chancellor,

incredibly unpopular. You've been through a period where, you are

just buffeting through, a hard time. What's your analysis of the

stkrents and weaknesses of the economy, and what's your advice?

Firstly, it would be surprising if a Chancellor wasn't unpop unpopular.

He has to do unpopular things. Tim Campbell, and Nick Clegg aren't

imposing the cuts to hurt people. They're imposing the cuts because

the last Government left the cub 350 bare, the gold was gone, the

money was gone, they had to take tough medicine. People must

understand that is why they are doing it. Of course it is unpopular,

and you must expect the Chancellor to be unpopular. Nothing surprising

about that. But, since I am no longer in politics, I can say

something, that perhaps as a politician, I wouldn't. You

mentioned, a Black Wednesday, around about that time, Norman

Lamont was taking to piece, to say there was green shoots. But we know

he was right. The recovery begins from the darkest moment. I'm not

certain, but I think we have passed the darkest moment. And will tell

you why. There are oddity in the figures at the moment. Why, in the

depth of this recession is employment growing, why is

industrial protection going up, why has the stock market risen. I could

list a number of other things. There are things happening, that

will become apparent. We don't know why or how. My guess, and this is

something a minister can't say, but I can. My guess is in due course,

we will find that we pass the bottom, that that last revision of

GDP, when we had a half per cent repduction is less bad than we

thought it was, and we are starting on what will be a slow, road to

recovery. I think that is beginning to happen.

And I hope that is the case, because I believe it will turn out

to be so, for a vast range of reasons. Meanwhile, party

conference season, you don't have to be involved in it any more. But

there is another Conservative Prime Minister, there are more,

whisperings and challenges, but he has borery Johnson bouncing around

which you never had. Do you think the Conservative Party

needs to calm down and settle down, or do you think this is an

inevitable part of the bad year? Well, there's nothing surprising,

about people being critical when times are tough. That is true in

the Conservative Party, it is true in the Liberal Democratic Party.

It's been true in the past. You saw those divisions in the 80s, and the

Conservative Party had had wets and drys, you saw it in the '90s, on

Europe. You're seeing it again, it is inevitability of political. But,

I would have thought if the Conservative Party learnt anything

in the past 20 years, it's lerpbled that religion side is not a good

idea. Is it? The concept of people challenged Tim Campbell is an

extremely good newspaper story, and Boris is an attractive and able and

intelligent politician doing a supremely good job in London. But

Boris, isn't in Parliament. Boris, hasn't said he wishes to become

Prime Minister, the reverse. And, the belief, that suddenly

everything will change, we will have a leadership challenge and

you're going to have a replacement Prime Minister, that isn't in the

real world. We aren't, David Cameron will remain Prime Minister,

and contest the next election, and I very much hope he will win it.

Your message to the backbenchers, who are constantly contacting

newspapers and saying they want to kill the Prime Minister, and

they're getting names on bits of paper, all the familiar stuff, your

message to them? My message is look at history. Disunity, costs votes,

unity helps a Government achieve the changes in our economy, we wish

to see, there's good for the nation, the economy, good for them and the

next election. Belt up? Your words not mine. After the death of

Princess Diana, you were guardian for the Princes, now they're both

back on the front pages again. These pictures, have cause an

absolute furore, in this country, and it seems, that, St James's

Palace, Prince is going to go to court in France, to take action,

against the publishers, and who knows, the photographers concerned.

Do you think that's an overreaction? I think it is

absolutely right. So that people in future, know where the boundaries

should be. The boundaries are plainly been crossed. I don't think

we need minutes words about the photographs. The way they've been

obtained, was tasteless. It is the action of a peeping Tom. In our

country, we prosecute peeping Toms, that's what they've done, and

peeping with long lenses from a long, way away. They're very

distasteful and I'm delighted. I have often, in the past, been

critical of the British immediatea. I thoroughly applaud the fact they

won't touch the pictures with a barge poll, they deserve credit and

it is a pity people overseas have lower seas. If you bumped into

Berlusconi this morning, you would have a few words too? It is very

unlikely, it might not be a good controversial. The more general

media the British papers are waiting for the outcome. The

Leveson Inquiry? I gave mief evidence to Leveson. I considered

it carefully and gave lengthy evidence, I won't add or subtract

to it. Leveson heard evidence from every conceivable point of view, I

didn't hear it all, I'm going to wait to see what he recommends.

Prince Harry is obviously, in a place of danger, Camp Bastion, in

Afghanistan. Taliban claim they are attacking that catch and killed

considerable number of people to get at him. Do you think it is

right that he's out there, the danger as always, is that he's

putting other people's lives at risk. He wants to fight, but is it

a danger by putting him in a place, he is endangering other people's

lives The first is that Prince Harry trained with his colleagues,

he want to serve with colleagues. He most emphatically, would not

wish to move. The second point, it would be a huge propaganda triumph,

if Prince Harry, were to be moved. And thirdly, I think there's a

great deal of an attempt to create public relations in the postering

of the Taliban at the present time. The Army knows what it is doing,

they will know whether there is a risk to those serving with pins

Harry and base points on that. There's talk about pulling out

troops early from Afghanistan. Would that help the situation in

any way? I don't think it is relate. I don't think you can relate that

point to the question of Prince Harry. I think there is a credible

case for looking at when we actually withdraw troops. The

moment, that President Obama said they would withdraw troops in 2014

the Taliban were on notice. As to when the NATO troops would leave.

And a large part of the Taliban, if they have any sense, probably moved

in north west Pakistan sta and are sitting in the lawel part of

Pakistan, waiting to come back, after the troops left. Having given

notice of a date upon which we leave, I think you have changed the

game. And changed it, totally. Sir John

Major thanks. Six NATO troops have been killed by men wearing NATO

yuesms. The two members of 3rd Battlion The Yorkshire Regiment

were shot at a checkpoint in Nahr-e Saraj district in Helmand Province

n another incident, four NATO soldiers were shot near the border

with Pakistan. The former Prime Minister, Sir John more said the

Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are right to take legal action against

the French magazine which published topless pictures of the Duchess. He

told the programme, the photographer's behaviour was no

different to that of a peeping Tom. A third publication said it will

print the pictures, an Italian magazine, will publish a special

edition tomorrow, ignoring the threat of legal action. And that's

all from me. The next news on BBC One, is at 1.30. Now back to Andrew

and guests. Thank you.

Mark Thompson returns and as promised we have the The Noisettes.

Who have had a great summer. You played at the Paralympics? Fabulous,

unforgetable experience. Africa express, tell us about that, that's

the current tour? It was a fantastic train, we did a short

tour of the UK, and there there were propbljects to interact with

people, and there were 85 musicians, having one long jam session, which

culminated, and jaming with Paul McCartney was a great moment.

will be playing us, tell us about the song you will be playing?

will play you a song called That Girl, it is a current single. It is

a feel good song. Thank you for having me. Of course the The

Noisettes were at the Paralympics, which followed on the Olympics so

successfully. Everyone is talking about the spirit of the Olympics,

the question is can we bottle it, and keep it in some way? I think it

would be marsh bmrveb marvellous if we could. We saw some things, that

I thought we had lost from the British chork, extent from the

volunteers. The sheer, patriotism of the British nation for the

athletes. I was fortunate enough to see aloft the Olympics, and the

moment I remember most, was when the Paralympians came on in the

Opening Ceremony, there were hour- and-a-half, and suddenly the

British team appeared, and as soon as the first British athlete

appeared, the whole of that 80,000 stadium was on their feet cheering,

I had tears in my eyes. There's so much talent and creativity. The

rest of the world knows, I spent a lot of the summer in theates,

there's a sense when you want fresh ideas, and want a kourpbl, creative

courage, you come to Britain. The rest of the world knows, it and we

need to know that ourselves. Were you surprised, because Paralympics,

has been in the past, a slight, down-beat, after the main Olympics?

This time the enthusiasm continued at the same level? You will have

forgotten this. But 27 years ago, I was minister for disabled people.

And I I was absolutely thrilled to see it. There was a - I was talking

to a foreign athlete, and he said, Paralympic athlete, and he said we

never seen anything like this, he said who asked these people to come.

They were thrilled of the size of the audience. With the Paralympics,

and women's sport, there's something, diskofd about how

exciteed and engaged the public can be, and we need to build on that.

We'll try and bottle it. That is all for today. Thanks to all of my

guests, next week we're back at the usual time, 9.00, but we'll be

broadcasting a show from Brighton, where the Liberal Democrats will

hold their annual kofrplg, I will be talking to Nick Clegg. Do join

me if you can for that. We will # I don't want to know

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# Running around in my head # I don't want to know about the

faist magazines about our bras, and tweets

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# How come your new best friend looks in your eye

# That girl's in love with you # I know, that you're too blind to

# I know that it's so blatant to # That girl's in love with you

# So madly # Andrew, I don't want to know

# If you're not coming home # I'll be down the street

# I'd rather dance to the beat # You were with her until four

# I don't mind company # Well not officially

# But when she sits next to you, # You don't realise

# When will you realise # That girl's in love with you

# I know that you're too blind to # I know that it's so plain to see

# That girl's in love with you # I'm just a so-and-so

# Do what I do cos I'm mad but # But just a peep at you, you can

see that you're delirious and seriously

# That girl's in love with you # I know, that you're too blind to

Mrk I know, that Tess a so plain To see

# That girl's in love with you, so, plain