03/03/2013 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. A particularly good morning to Andrew Marr, who it is

now back home after almost two months in hospital following a

stroke. In case you haven't heard, he is continuing his rehabilitation

at home and plans to be back at work later this year. In the

meantime, a packed programme for you this morning after a week of

political drama, most are played out in Hampshire. The papers are

full of the fall-out this morning. To help us with that, not two but

three insightful paper reviewers. Former Labour MP and Cabinet

minister Clare Short, leading blogger, broadcaster and former

Conservative candidate Iain Dale and the artistic director of

London's Southbank Centre, Jude Kelly. In pretty much every paper

today there is plenty on why the Tories failed to take Eastleigh and

what they should do now. The Prime Minister says in the Telegraph

there will be no lurch to the right. But many are calling for a change

in direction. The other big news is Syria's President Assad rounding on

the UK. There is also news from Mali that the mastermind behind the

Algerian hostage crisis has been killed. There is an awful lot on

William Hague's plate this morning. We will be looking for answers on

several fronts. Despite much talk of Lib Dem knelt down and an MP

that had to quit Parliament because he perverted the course of justice,

the party did hang on to Eastleigh after a bruising battle. Tim Farron

joins us to explain how they are going to work with their political

bedfellows in the two years remaining before the General

Election. The UK Independence Party came second. But were they the real

winners in Eastleigh? Nigel Farage is here and he is predicting an

earthquake in British politics. Plus, one of Hollywood's legendary

leading men, Richard Gere, will be telling me why he has returned to

the big screen after a long break for a thrilling Wall Street

morality tale and why the Chinese government is, in his words,

nothing more than the Mafia. There will be music from a young Texan

hailed as the future by Barack All that and more coming up. First,

the news. Good morning. The militant Islamist

leader suspected of masterminding the attack on a gas plant in

Algeria in which 37 hostages died, including six British workers, is

reported to have been killed. Military commanders in trad say

Mokhtar Belmokhtar was killed when their troops attacked an insurgent

camp in Mali. His death was announced on Chadian state

television but has not been confirmed by other sources.

He was the man dubbed as uncatchable. He had developed

strong ties across the Sahara and was able to operate across borders.

He has been declared dead in the past, and once again beat

uncatchable man is said to have been caught and killed. Officials

from trad broke the news on state television. The senior army officer

says that Chadian armed forces in Mali have destroyed the main base

of the jihadis and terrorists in the mountains. He says they killed

a number of terrorists, including Mokhtar Belmokhtar. Mokhtar

Belmokhtar, trained with Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, returned home to

Algeria in the 1990s. That is where he planned January's attack on a

gas facility. Dozens of oil workers were taken hostage. At least 37 of

them were killed. This is the second big claim in two days from

the leaders in Trant. The Chadian President is seen here on Friday,

claiming that Chadian troops killed another top R Claydon member, one

of the most ferocious in the region. -- Al-Qaeda member. Apart from

Chadian officials, there is no other confirmation that they have

been killed. The Syrian President has accused

Britain of being determined to militarised the situation in his

country. In an interview for the Sunday Times, President Assad again

insisted that he would not stand down or go into exile. It is

estimated around 70,000 people have been killed since the conflict

started almost two years ago. He said the British government would

not be asked to play a role in easing the conflict. How can we

expect to ask them to play a role, while it is determined to

militarised the problem? How can you ask them to play a role in

making the situation better, more stable, how can you expect them to

make the violence less, while they want to send military supplies to

terrorists? And they don't try to ease the dialogue between Syrians.

This is not sensible. The Prime Minister has insisted the

Conservatives will stick to their course, despite their performance

in the Eastleigh by-election. The Conservatives came third behind

the Liberal Democrats and UKIP. Writing in the Sunday Telegraph,

David Cameron makes clear there will be no change of direction and

he will stick to what he calls the common ground of British politics.

Meanwhile, the Justice Secretary Chris Grayling has told the same

newspaper that he expects a future Conservative government to scrap

the Human Rights Act. He said the role of the European Court of Human

Rights in UK affairs should be dramatically curtailed.

Nurses say their warnings about failures in patient care are being

ignored and many believe they are discouraged from speaking out. That

is according to a new survey. Researchers for the Nursing Times

spoke to more than 800 nurses. More than half said they had reported

issues, but many found no appropriate action was taken in

response. The Government says it is already taking measures to protect

and support whistleblowers in the NHS.

Rescuers in Florida have called off the search for Iron Man who

disappeared into a sink hole which opened under his house. -- For a

man. The Fire Service said there was no signs of life and ended

attempts to find Jeff Bush. The wreckage will now be demolished.

Neighbours have moved out and have been warned it may never be safe

for them to return. I will be back with the headlines just before 10

Now, the front pages this morning. Let's start with the Sunday Times.

The main story is a clampdown on NHS care for migrants. They say it

is pitching for the populist vote. There are preparations to limit the

access of immigrants to free health care. It is amid concerns that the

NHS is being abused by new arrivals. And top head condemns Hot Fuzz

parents. And coverage of The Duchess of Cambridge, what you

might call a little bump. The Observer, doctors cry foul at NHS

privatisation by stealth. Jessica Ennis, the Olympic Stadium. The

Independent, I tried to tell them. This is a doctor that wrote to warn

a private out-of-hours health service that its poor care would

cause a serious clinical incident. A baby died of pneumonia after his

case was downgraded to routine. James Bulger killer groomed me for

sex. The Sunday People, a story about an MP that apparently took a

Viagra pill and grope somebody. BhS starts 165,000 people to death.

These are new and shocking figures, says the Sunday Express. -- the NHS.

And Curly Watts, coming back after 10 years away. The Daily Mail, they

are talking about a great day for British justice. That is as Tereza

make vows to take the UK out of the human Court of Human Rights. Sorry,

What shall we start with? It's a long time since I have read all the

papers and I feel they are deteriorating and becoming more and

more salacious. A fine way to start! Shall we give up now? First

story, Eastleigh? That is dominating the papers. A survey of

lots of wise heads about what the Tory party can do to get trust back.

If you read the suggestions, you have to conclude they cannot do it.

The economy is going to be bad for a long time, there are more and

more cuts to come. I think it is inevitable that people will not

vote Tory or Lib Dem. I think Labour will come back and they will

not be able to do much. This happened under Tony Blair, how can

Tony Blair regain the trust of the British people? He was elected

twice afterwards, so it is not impossible. He got massive

parliamentary majorities, which I am sure David Cameron would settle

for. This story in a Sunday Times, they have done an analysis of the

aftermath of Eastleigh. There is no doubt about it, for the

Conservatives it is a disastrous result. It is no good any Tory MP

or media pretending otherwise. The question is what to do about it.

The one thing they shouldn't do is try to out UKIP UKIP. They cannot

do it. But the evidence in the papers is that is what they are

trying to do. You have the NHS migrant story, the potential

abolition of the European Court of Human Rights. Saying that we will

not change and then feeding out these right-wing stories? They say

it is a coincidence. Coincidences do not often happen in politics.

Especially that one about the European Convention of Human Rights,

that is a long way away, if at all, it would go into the Conservative

manifesto. But it must be being put out at the moment? Cameron has said,

we are not going to move to the right. At the same time, all of the

stories are suggesting they are going to go to the right, even

those from papers that claim they don't want to. Most people think it

is quite a sensible thing to do. I'm not sure that most people do.

Most Tories would. Yes. It's a difficult story. So many people

conflate Europe with the European Court of Human Rights and they are

not the same thing. Tory MPs, a lot of them, think that David Cameron

is the problem. He is not the problem, he is an assets to the

Tory party. The problem is the Conservative Party itself. Douglas

Carswell has an interesting article in the Mail on Sunday, it says it

is like HMV, it has not kept with the times. In Eastleigh, they had

37,000 votes in 2002. They had 1500 members. They now have 100, most of

whom are over 70. This should not have been a surprise. They had done

nothing to build up their organisation. All of the parties

are losing members. That is true, but the Liberal Democrats had every

single councillor, a good election- winning machine. If the Tories

cannot win a by-election when you have the Chris Huhne thing in the

background, the Lord Rennard allegations, what are we going to

do about it? We will be talking that later -- talking about that

later in the programme. This is a story about food. I'm not sure I am

allowed to say this, but every single paper carries these huge

adverts from Tesco. The really big conviction adverts, saying that we

completely take the blame for the way that food supplies have been

tampered with, ignored or used to drive down the price of food and we

are going to change all that. I have had a text message from them,

I don't know if other people half. E-mails as well. Next to this we

have a whole thing about insects being the planet's next food source.

Although it sounds funny, it sounds creepy, this is in the Sunday Times,

what they are really talking about is the fact that the investigation

into the use of insects across the world is that this probably will be

the next source of food. Over my dead body! I ate horse when I was

in France, if we had known that is what it was, we would not have been

shocked. Honey is actually bee vomit! Because people are so picky

about what they think is proper food and what they think is not

proper food, some of the food chains that could be astonishingly

helpful, insects being one, we have ignored them for years. I predict

that we will be eating worms, before they eat us. The President

of Syria, giving a rare interview. Really putting the boot into

Britain. He used to be a doctor in London. He was not meant to be the

President, and then the elder brother killed himself in a road

accident and suddenly he is back there. Everybody thought he was a

liberal, a humane man, he worked in the health service and he will

reform Syria. They talked about a Damascus spring when he went back.

His wife is very glamorous. I think it is thought that it is a regime

in such a state that it is unreform a ball. But he is saying you are

arming Al-Qaeda, giving them weapons. And he says, if you are

considering giving imams, how could you ever go to the negotiating

table after doing that? It is something that many dictators do,

the ability to be completely persuasive to themselves. It's

interesting, the way that he attacks Britain. I think that is a

surrogate for attacking America. Should Britain be intervening more?

I think the question is how we protect the people. There are

masses of refugees in Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, having a terrible

time. We talk of humanitarian corridors? Indeed. That is an

alternative to arming the opposition. There is a problem, it

was an uprising of the people but nasty elements are getting in there

and it is dangerous for everybody. But I think we should look at the

no-fly zone and better health for the refugees. Then there is the new

leader of the opposition that wants to talk. I think we should get

behind him and get into talks. years after Iraq, is that putting

The US don't want any more wars. The Britain got burned. I think

from our Government's point of view, there is a growing sense of trying

to pacify in these countries. Libya went as well as it could. We will

see what happens in five years' time. But there is hypocrisy. Far

more people are being killed in Syrian than Libya. We did it in

Libya, but not Syria. Some silly people are talking about war in

Iran, but protecting the people, not advocating a war. I'm not

advocating that we get involved in a war. I'm talking about hypocrisy.

Some people are saying - if there, why not here?

Another story about Lord Rennard, who dominated the papers last week.

Well the Independent have a whizz pering campaign, talk about that. -

- whispering campaign. That his old enemies are coming out

and taking a stab at him. And the people who have made the

allegations, they are credible. When you see them on television,

you see what agenda do they have, other than pointing this out. The

police involvement. There is no law that has been broken here. Whatever

he is alleged to have done, I cannot see any excuse... I want to

add, firstly no-one in the country has ever heard of him. Does that

matter? Why is it such a big story? He had a powerful role. When I was

younger, men were always trying to grope young women. It doesn't make

it right. No and things are changing, so it is ro gres. This is

because at the moment there is a desire to shift the boundaries of

what is acceptable. In the crossfire are all the stories of

people being accused or have perpetrated issues around

harassment. It is a moment when public attitude to trying to change,

for the better. I think there will be... But there is a problem here

that on this story and the cardinal Keith O'Brien story, we kind of

assume they are builty. The general public will assume there is no

smoke without fire. -- they are guilty. It is an unhelpful

development in civil society where we automatically assume built.

story, your story about the festival at the South Bank. Well,

this is the third year to celebrate International Women's Day. It

celebrates all kinds of achievements of women and the way

that women in civil society still have progress to make. We have got

some fantastic performers from all over the world, some of whom are

living in marginalised conditions and some celebrating massive

progress. We have a person coming to talk about how the impact of a

shooting changed the debate in Pakistan. But the main thing in

recent years is that women and men want to talk about gender equality

in society. And part of the relationship with this is that they

want to move the goalposts about how the discussions happen. I think

it is a great thing. Gender equality with women living under

pressure to be sexually available, to work harder than men so they can

be at home with their children. these things have to be discussed.

When you are trying to change society, there are swings and

roundabouts and slings and arrows. You need to have a lot of debating

opportunities. I think the move for feminism was a more dignified life

for all of us. It is not a finished story? I'm saying nothing.

You have to say something. I can't, you have run out of time. It has to

be about men and women. Speak. Fortunately, I think you are in

luck. I want to say something - this issue of somebody being guilty

before they are proved guilty, it is a tremendous problem about smear

campaigns in general. It is also true, very often on the other side

of the issue, one of the reasons why women find it difficult to get

rape convictions are people so nervous of men being accused of

something they haven't done, they end up never really convicting so

many men of rape when kshual rape has -- casual rape has happened at

enormous proportions. But this story has gone too far.

Well there was a smattering of sunshine in parts of the country

yesterday and a definite hint of springtime ahead. What is the

outlook for the week ahead? Over outlook for the week ahead? Over

now to the Weather Centre? More tastes of spring over the next

few day bus compared to yesterday not so much sunshine around.

If you have plans for the outdoors, it is largely dry. A few spots of

rain in parts of Shetland and Hebrides.

You can see the satellite. The area peaking out is west Wales. A

glorious morning after a frsty start. Sunshine continues. -- a

frosty start. Most places will sit under cloudy

skies but in central and eastern areas not as chilly as recent days.

Dry through the night and with cloud around not as cold as last

night. A patchy frost to take us into Monday. Chilly for your Monday

morning commute and rather cloudy but a dry morning commute. If

anything, through Monday we'll see more sunshine win through. England

and Wales will see good spells of hazy sunshine which will help to

lift the temperature. Feeling cool around eastern coasts with the wind

coming off a chilly North Sea. Warmer still into Tuesday. Feeling

pleasant in parts of England and Wales. By Wednesday see swap the

sunshine for the cloud and a bit of patchy rain. I give with one hand

patchy rain. I give with one hand The Liberal Democrats were jubilant

after holding on to Chris Huhne's seat at the Eastleigh by-election

on Thursday, but the pictures that dominated the papers afterwards

were of Nigel Farage, the UK Independence Party leader,

celebrating in style. They may not have won Eastleigh but UKIP'S

strong showing in a constituency where they had little track record

has given them a boost. So after winning 28% of the vote and pushing

the Tories into third place, was it rather more than a protest vote?

Nigel Farage joins me. You must be kick yourself. If you had stood,

you could be sitting here as UKIP's first Member of Parliament. We had

a very good candidate in Diane James. There is no evidence I would

have got any more votes than her. Really? None whatsoever. The reason

I didn't stand, is I want to lead the party into the European

elections which take place next year, where I believe that we can

cause a really historic result. So, we didn't quite get over the line.

The postal vote system in by- elections really does count against

us, because there isn't time to reach everybody. But, look, no

complaints, we are delighted. It is our best of refer parliamentary

performance. I think there is every reason to believe there is more to

come. If you had stood and won that seat, you could have, if it was

really a protest vote you could have lost it clearly at the next

election. The protest vote is the default for the establishment.

yourself admitted a protest vote. I heard you on the day after. Yes,

some people who voted UKIP used it as a chance to stick two fingers up.

But 83% of ue skip voters, it has been said, were sending a message

to the party -- UKIP. You cannot put a cigarette paper between them

on policy. There is nothing to choose, and no-one speaks for us,

is what the UKIP voters say. They vote for UKIP on policy. We are

saying to people, that we are putting in front of them is a

Commons sense idea of how we should control our borders. Of what our

relationship with Europe should be and what we should be doing about

the looming energy crisis. People vote for UKIP because they see us

offering policy solutions. But a lot of them - there was an element

of protest vote. They were voting UKIP because they wanted it stop

other parties. It was a rejection of the current political class,

where it comes to Romania and Bulgaria having full access to

Britain next year, all they want to do is sweep it under the carpet. We

are prepared to talk about it. next challenge, the local elections

in May. You polled about 17% of the vote last time. Give us your

predictions? Are we going to see 28% of the vote? We'll fight them

on a bigger scale than ever before. I'm hoping we'll put 2,000

candidates into the field. As a party we need it establish

breakthroughs. The difficulty for UKIP is our support comes from

across the spectrum. If you read today's Sunday papers you would

think there is a pitch battle between UKIP and the Conservative

Party going on. Only one-third of our vote in Eastleigh came from the

Conservatives. Two-thirds came from Liberal Democrats, Labour and

people who had not voted for anybody for the last 20 years.

We'll fight broadly in these elections. We have some ideas where

we are going to target and what we need to do in May is make

breakthroughs. You really do. You raised your increase of the vote

last time around but it translated to one more or. That's your proib.

You may get the headlines and take large shares of the votes but it is

not translating yet, is it? No, we live under a first past the post

system. Normally new parties that come along have a geographical bias,

the Scottish National Party, or they draw from a certain segment of

the population, be it poor people or rich people and UKIP draws were

across the board. Our strength is we exist everywhere. We can do well

everywhere in the country but our weakness is we don't have the

hotspots where we have clusters of elected councillors. What about

television debates. Do you think off strerning case now, or not?

Well -- do you think you have a stronger case now? Which will think

that depends. Drm has said no. would rather not debate anything.

- David Cameron has said no. have to make breakthroughs on local

elections and we'll be judged on the European elections in 2014.

Quite honestly, if we were at this kind of level, heading up to 2015,

fob excluded from those debates would be ludicrous. -- to be

excluded. In the papers this mornings there is talk about the

European Convention on Human Rights and limiting access to immigrants

on the NHS but the Conservatives potentially if they go forward with

that will take out the wind out of yourless sails. Jam tomorrow. We

hear from the Conservatives promises of what we might do if

they win the general election. As we heard the same promises before

the election of 2010. The real problem that the Conservatives have

got isn't UKIP. The real problem is their own supporters, they look at

a Conservative Party that used to talk about wealth creation, low tax,

enterprise it. Talks now about gay marriage and windfarms. When these

promises are made. No-one believes them any more.

1234 thank you very much. -- thank you.

Now, listening to that was the President of the Liberal Democrats,

Tim Farron, who spent a considerable amount of time in

Eastleigh out and about helping to For his party.

And he joins me now from his home in Cumbria. You must be exhausted

after the week you've had and somewhat relieved. You held on.

More than relief. I thought this was a by-election where there was

no score-draw. No away point on the table. We either lost by a bit and

it was dreadful or we won by however much and it would be almost

unspeakable triumph. It is a game- changing result for us from

Eastleigh for the Liberal Democrats. Although it is only a by-election

and it is important to emphasise it doesn't mean absolutely everything,

but you can read a lot from Eastleigh with regard to seats like

Eastleigh. In other words the other 56 seats the Liberal Democrats hold.

Perhaps those other 20 or 30 or a few more Liberal Democrat

Conservative-held seats where the Liberal Democrats are second. It

has showed us that it was a tough thing to go into Government, the

alternative was worse but you can campaign from the sidelines. But it

was far from a triumph. Your vote plummeted. You lost I think half of

the people who voted for you, in the general election, they didn't

vote for you this time. Sow fission I'm guessing you have read the

papers this last week. We managed to win an election during the

backdrop of that. If the Tories can't beat us after the week we've

had, crumbs. It is massive for us and massive for the Conservatives

to come third in a two-horse race. But you were dug. In Eastleigh

where you hold the seats, it is very much your seat. Nationally you

Here, Liberal Democrats work hard on the ground and communicate with

people regularly, not just when there is an election. That is why

you cannot read into the EC result much for the majority of the seats

in the country. You can read a lot about what it is like in seats that

Liberal Democrat target. It is a good result, but we need to not be

complacent about it. Mike point is that nationally you still poll very

badly, not looking great ahead of a General Election? Nigel Farage and

I were on the same side of beat AV referendum. That was a nice thing

to do. We did not win, however. It reminds us that we have a system

that does not reward you want the number of votes you get. Our job is

to make sure that, while the system is unfair, we have to make sure we

use it to the best of our advantage. Eastleigh shows that Lib Dem

fortresses are firm. More than any other by-election I have taken part

in, there were national issues on the agenda. The national issue,

predominantly, was about taxation. The Liberal Democrats are for

fairer tax, lower tax for middle- income and low-income people. It

was interesting that we managed to cut through on that. With does

affirm fortresses you referred to, does that mean that it gives you

more muscle in negotiations with your coalition partners? I would

hope so. The message with Eastleigh is that it is not popular to offer

tax cuts to the wealthy, which I think George Osborne is minded to

do. It is popular, not only popular, but sensible, to give tax cuts to

people on middle incomes and the lowest incomes. It is fair but it

would also help the economy. People on low incomes spend the money that

they have, rich people blow it on villas in Tuscany. In the run-up to

the budget are we going to see the Lib Dem hand firmly on what is

announced? Are we going to see you resisting moves to cut welfare to

shore up the defence budget, for example? That would be a ludicrous

thing to do. I heard Philip Hammond making those comments. At a time

like this, to think it is more important to be investing money

into a Trident or something like that, rather than protecting people

that are the least well-off in our society, that would be morally

wrong as well as economic see stupid. -- economically stupid. We

also need to be magnanimous, it is just an election. David Cameron

must be tempted to remain on the centre ground, or to move towards

it, and not listen to voices from the right. That would be a foolish

thing for the country. If he listens to advice from me, it would

be a foolish thing for the Conservative Party. If, head of a

General Election, one of the key things you will have to do is to

make it clear that you may be in a coalition but you are very

different in your approach, one of the ways you could do that is the

mansion tax. Will you be voting with Labour on the mansion tax?

They are keen to push this through. Labour have, interestingly, tried

to copy a lot of our ideas. They put a plan through to Parliament on

an opposition debate to support a mansion tax. That is an interesting

thing. We normally take those notions as the mischief that they

are. You could have a real impact. We vote with them? We are all ears,

I would say. We are not going to be lured into a parliamentary trap by

Labour, but sometimes you have to take things at face value.

Richard Gere's film career has seen him play his fair share of heart-

throbs. He also does a fine line in moral ambiguity. Ever since his

early success in American Gigolo, he has been adept at exploring

human nature. In his latest film, are the Triage, he is a billionaire

money man hurtling toward self- destruction. He told me why, after

a former career break, he came back to play Robert Miller, the kind of

Wall Street demon that people love to hate. He is an interesting guide.

He is one of those iconic characters, the punching bag of the

moment, these rich financial guys that seemed to have it all together.

But we pretty effectively deconstructing over two hours.

Hopefully we see the human being bare. We don't have to admire

everything about him, but I think we can recognise him as ourselves

in many ways. You did some pretty extensive research in preparing for

this role? People think it was all about learning the terms of the

financial markets and understanding at all. The reality is that I don't

think they understand it. I don't think they could understand or

explain financial instruments, derivatives, insurance on insurance,

etc. I'm interested in finding the Did you want our investors to go

bankrupt? He wanted people to get really hurt? It is my job! John?

It's illegal. And I am your partner. You're not my partner, you work for

me. That's right, you work for me. There is a certain cowboy element,

I think, in these guys. There is a gambler, a risk-taker. They are

looking for the cattle that goes off to the right so they can go

running after it. They are thinking out of the box. That is where the

energy is, there is a certain drug or taking a chance, gambling and

losing, possibly. But with a loss you will fix it somehow, you will

come back. The adrenalin rush of that stuff is the make-up I found

of these guys. You play him, we start almost rooting for him. We

almost like the guy, we want him to come out of this? I apologise!

people said this to you? You are almost giving the human side?

Friends were very angry with me, you do want to hate these guys.

They are the devil incarnate in our lives. But I don't think you could

sustain a study of this guy, Robert Miller, for two hours without

seeing a human being there. If you did not see what makes him

successful, beyond being ruthless. There is real charm. There are

human qualities of warmth and awareness. He is aware of what he

is doing. We see him many times measuring what he is going to do.

He does it, it's a bad trice, but a human traits. Pretty Woman is one

of the films that made your name... Speaking of red dresses! There you

go, I had not thought of that. What a connection. This was a film they

really have to convince you to do? I didn't get it, I didn't

understand it. First of all, I thought it was just a suit. You can

get any body, put him in a suit, I Would you consider spending the

week with me? I will pay you to be at my beck and call. Look, I would

love to be your beck and call girl. You are a rich, good-looking guy.

You could get any of those goals Then I met Juliet. I took a phone

call and she was writing something down on a piece of paper. She

turned it around and it said, please do this. How could you

resist? It ended up being one of the best experiences I have had.

could have been so different for you. You were a talented gymnast,

you went to university on a gymnastics scholarship. You were a

talented musician, trumpet, piano and guitar? If I stayed with

gymnastics, I would not be speaking to you right now. We could have

seen you at the Olympics? Highly unlikely. But you were good? I was

OK, enough to get me into college. Music? Music is OK. I was surprised

how many times I have brought music into movies. Music is definitely a

part of my life, it is still there, hours-a-day. Do you play with other

people on your own? It is out of the marketplace, out of anybody

else's world. It is what I want, whenever I want to do it. You had

something like 100 guitars that you sold off? You are going to make me

cry. This is the weeping moment you have been waiting for. She is going

to make me cry. Is there a Kleenex here? You sell them, though? For $1

million? Yes, it went right into the Tibetan work. I wanted to ask

you about that as well. You have been very, very active in that. 30,

40 years. What to do make, nowadays, of Washington, Hollywood rolling

out the carpet, in Krishan LEA, -- increasingly, to Chinese leaders?

Do you feel let down? It's understandable. We have to create

tracks where people can balance these things. The reality is that

China needs owes as much as we need them, economically. They are in the

system now. They cannot pull out. What we have to do is be unified.

If we do care about human rights, and we do care about the rural poor,

we have to stick together. The Chinese government, the Communist

Party, it is really skillful at separating countries. We have to be

careful about this. There is not the danger that economic muscle

overshadows human rights? Of course it does, that we have to be clear

about his. On a one-to-one basis, there is not a person I have ever

met that was not on the side of the Tibetans, or the Chinese people,

which are in the same state and have the same issues. The Demon

here is the Chinese Communist Party. It behaves like a mafia. Actor and

activist Richard Gere. The civil war in Syria has been

raging for two years. 1 million people have fled the country as

refugees. Last week, America announced they were giving $60

million in what they are calling non-lethal aid to Syrian opposition

groups, the first direct supplies to the rebels. But what they really

want is weapons. Will they get them? I am joined by William Hague.

$60 million from America, will you be matching that? We will be giving

more assistance. Money? I will announce in Parliament what that

will consist of. That will involve more equipment to help save lives

in Syria. Many people have been killed in this conflict, by the

Assad regime. We will be doing more and we will have to steadily do

more, faced with this situation. The longer this goes on, the

greater the danger that extremism takes hold, the greater the danger

of destabilising neighbouring countries. I saw that for myself in

Lebanon, 10 days ago. The greater the extreme humanitarian distress

involved. We cannot just sit on the sidelines and watch those.

Britain will be giving money, will be giving some money to match what

America has done to provide non- lethal equipment? We will be doing

more. What we're doing is co- ordinated. Yes, it is co-ordinated

with the United States and other allies. I have had a lot of

discussions with John Kerry about this. We will be doing more and we

will have to steadily do more if there is no diplomatic or political

breakthrough. The situation in Syria now is too dangerous to the

peace and security of that entire region. And, thereby, the world, to

ignore it. We will continue to give enormous amounts in it to relieve

humanitarian distress. But we will have to do more to assist the

opposition on the ground. You used that word, more, several times

already. You're not saying it translates into money. Could

translate into arms eventually? don't think we can rule that out

for the future. I will not be announcing arms to the Syrian

opposition this week. We have agreed in the European Union last

week amendments to the arms embargo, to allow others to send a wider

range of non-lethal equipment that will do more to save lives. A wider

range... But this is military equipment? You are allowed to send

flak jackets, night-vision goggles, armoured vehicles? You will

understand that I am going to explain the details to Parliament.

I believe very strongly in ministers making announcements to

Parliament. I don't rule out anything for the future. If this is

going to go on for months or years, and it has gone on for two already,

tens of thousands of people more are going to die. Countries like

Iraq and Jordan are going to be destabilised. It is not something

that we can ignore. I know people say, why do we have to do anything

or be involved? These are the reasons. We cannot sit it out in

Syria. You cannot sit it out, you say you will not rule out giving

alms to the Syrian opposition. How do you ever know, if that happens,

how do you know whose hands these end up in? The opposition is not

some homogenous group? I am not saying we are doing that. But you

haven't excluded it. If ever we get into that situation, the risks of

arms falling into the wrong hands is one of the great constraints and

one of the reasons we do not do it now. But these are a balance of

risks. You can reach that point where humanitarian need is so great

that you have to do something new in order to save lives. That is why

I do not rule it out of the future. You will have seen is into this

morning, a very rare interview the President Assad has given. He

talked about bullying Britain. How Britain is fanning the flames. He

says, how can we expect Britain to make the violence less when they

want to send military supplies to $:/STARTFEED. He is presiding over

the slaughter and we are, Britain, are sending food and blankets and

med dl supplies to the people there in his name. We are sending medical

supplies to look after the people abused by the soldiers working for

this man. Like Brahimi bra, who is a softly-spoken diplomat - Brahimi.

That Assad thinks and is told by his inner circle that all of this

is an international conspiracy, not the rebellion and revolt of his own

people. I think this will go down as one of the most delusional

interviews any national lieder has given in modern times. -- leader.

He has a point in one sense: is this going to end the conflict? If

we go down that path and the rebels are armed, there is no guaranteed

it would end the conflict? saying we have to do what we can to

save lives, lives he is bringing to a terrible end. Of course, we'll

never waiver in trying to seek a diplomatic and political solution

to the situation in Syria. He has now had two years of opportunities

to sit down in real dialogue and has refused every opportunity to do

so. Even though the national coalition, their leader, the

opposition leader, Mr Al-Khatib, bravely offered dialogue with the

Assad regime, they have not taken that up. We'll never stop pursuing

that. There isn't a military-only solution. The Russian Foreign

Minister will be here in London in the next ten days and we'll have

another major discussion about Syria, to see whether we can make

some diplomatic breakthrough, but there is no sign of that at the

movement hence we have to do more to try to protect people, protect

civilen life in Syria and neighbouring countries. -- civilian

life. Let's turn to the subject of Eastleigh. What went wrong for the

Tories? Well I think something went wrong for all of the main political

parties. Not UKIP. They are not main. We must take seriously

people's concerns in by-election results but the statistics of by-

elections, as you know, can be argued in every direction. I was

elected in a by-election 24 years ago. The result in my constituency

in the following five general elections has borne no resemblance

at all to that by-election result. It is dangerous to extrapolate from

by-election bus as the Prime Minister said in his particle this

morning, there are people who know the country was going downhill with

Labour, so they are not voting Labour. So you are brushing it off.

Complacent? No, we are not, people are impatient for us to sort these

things out. I think what we have to do is make sure we follow-up and

comun Kate properly the things we are succeeding in as a Government.

-- communicating. Of the the immigration figures came out, down

by one-third. Welfare spending bringing brought under control. 2

million people lifted out of income tax. You know full-well that the

criticism of the Conservatives right now is that they are not in

touch with their grass roots. You are not in touch with your core

supporters. All kinds of coverage in the papers today. One over the

weekend - put simply this is just one newspaper, "Electors are sick

and tired of a guilded out of touch Metropolitan elite which seems more

concerned about posturing over gay marriage, overseas aid and

windmills than helping those whose income is shrinking every month."

That's the main problem, isn't it? I don't think it is. David Cameron

has argued that the Conservative Party must stay on the common

ground. Not the middle ground? it is not about try ang lating a

point in politics about us and other parties and it is certainly

not about a lurch in any direction. It is about making a success of

these things that this Government, in the most challenging

circumstances of any Government in modern times, given the inheritance

we were left, has set about doing. Bringing down the deficit by one-

quarter. Brenging down the rate of business tax sharply. -- bringk

down. Freezing council tax for three years. Having more

apprenticeships than we have ever had before. We have one million

more private sector jobs. Stkpwhroo look at UKIP. Some of the - -- Look

at UKIP some people seem to be drawn to them because of the fears

of immigrations, particularly numbers of Romanians and Bulgarians

coming to this country next you have estimates. How many do you

think there Will be coming or is it scare among snerg No we don't have

estimates. The figures came out this week, immigration down by one-

third. I'm talking about Romanians and Bulgarians. I know but there

are no secret estimates. We have the figures of what is happening,

coming down thanks to the policies of the government. In a by-election

people can have an indulgence but a general election is a choice. At

the next general election, do people want a Government that has

really brought down immigration, this one? Or a Labour Government

that threw open the doors completely. Let me ask you two

points: first of all, by Romanians and Bulgarians are you saying you

have no idea, there are no assessments, you have no clue.

Migration Watch is saying 250,000 people over the next five years.

don't think anybody can give you a forecast. The European Union is the

free movement of people and British people benefit enormous will from

that. Yes, we will have that but we will be careful to make sure that

benefit tourism comes to an end. That has to be tackled so people

are not drawn to one - not drawn to our country or any country in

particular, just by being attracted by the benefits system. Migration

Watch's figures, you think it is impossible to guess, it is

nonsense? I think it is guesswork. That is worrying, so you have no

clue how many people are going to come to this country next year?

am saying it would be guesswork. The important thing is to Mick sure

people aren't drawn artificially into Britain -- make sure. Most

Bulgarian and Romanian people don't live in Britain, that's not where

their diaspora has gone. That can be of some reassurance. But there

isn't a magic or secret figure. We should continue to bring down the

total of immigration into this country. And put people off come?

There is a story in one of the Papeers this morning saying new

immigrants will potentially have their access to the NHS limited. --

in the papers. It is important that there aren't artificial perverse

incentives for people to come to the UK. So you are looking at it?

Yes, we are looking in Government at what more we can do to make sure

that is controlled. That that is fair across Europe. And I think

people would expect us to do that. That's absolutely right. Again

something that never happened over the last Government and the next

general election will be a choice between tackling these sorts of

things, or the last Government that never did any of it. And you would

curb benefits for new immigrants? Benefit tourism can't be allow. We

are getting the benefit system under control. We are introducing a

cap on benefits, so no family on benefits can receive more than the

average household can receive by going out to work. These are

essential reforms, our reforms of housing benefit. Essential reforms

of the benefit system. The next jeng election is a choice - do you

want -- general election. Do you want to go back to Ed Balls running

the economy and no discipline or do you want the difficult challenges,

the hard work we are having to put in to make these changes? Ity

people want the changes. Difficult challenges, looking ahead, a Budget

with a Spending Review, defence cuts and welfare cuts. Do you think

welfare cuts is the way to go? will have to wait for the Spending

Review. We have worked hard and Iain Duncan Smith has done a

brilliant job bringing the benefit system under control. Philip

Hammond has done a difficult job balancing the books. And he has

made it clear he can take no more. Well, we will - of course,

ministers will discuss the next spending round over the next few

weeks and months. Any announcements on that you will have to wait for.

My colleagues are doing an outstanding piece of work in making

sure that this country can live within its means. We have brought

down the deficit by one-quarter and we have to go on doing it. We won't

be diverted by by-elections or local elections. We can't be.

me ask you about another big story, the European Convention on Human

Rights. Are we potentially leaving that? That will be something in the

Conservative manifesto? We have already sought reform of the

European Court of Human Rights with some success over the last couple

of years. I think the stories you have seen today are speculation

about a future manifesto. It is a couple of years away. We are

getting well ahead of ourselves on that. Not true? It is speculation

about a future manifesto. I cannot give you any more than that. I must

ask you one thing about Mali overnight and the reports that the

lead ever, the man behind the Algerian crisis, the crisis at the

gas plant, has been killed. Is that a significant step towards getting

the sort of terrorism in North Africa under control? It would be a

blow to terrorism. These are frorps Chadian soldiers who have been

doing a lot of fighting in northern Mali. -- reports from. We cannot

confirm that. I stress that it. Would be a blow to terrorism and

the criminal network around this man but it doesn't mean the

problems of Mali will be at an end. There is a lot to do to promote a

political process in Mali. Elections, legitimate Government

and so on. That work has to go on. Thank you very much.

Now, over to Sian for the news headlines.

Thank you. The President of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron has

described the party's victory in the Eastleigh by-election as a gym-

change result. He said it vindicated the decision to go into

coalition. -- game had of changing. He warned 9 Conservatives they

would be foolish to lurch to the right. Eye kip same second. Its

leader Nigel farge insisted that success couldn't be dismissed as a

protest vote. -- UKIP's leader, Nigel Farage. They vote UKIP on

policy. We are saying to people we are putting in front of them is a

common sense idea of how we should control our borders, of what our

relationship with Europe should be and what we should be doing about

the looming energy crisis. Foreign Secretary has said the

British Government will do more to help the opposition forces in Syria.

William Hague will anounges details to Parliament this week of --

announce details to Parliament of a wider range of non-lethal equipment

to be sent there. He said the UK did not rule out arming the rebels

at some stage in the future if the situation continued to deteriorate.

A terrorist leader, who is thought to have ordered the attack on a gas

plant. Has been chilled in Chad. It has been reported that Mokhtar

Belmokhtar has been killed. There has been no independent

confirmation of his death. That's all from me. The next news on BBC

One is at midday. Back to Sophie in a moment but first here is what is

coming up after this show. Join us live from St Albans where we will

be asking should protesters be sued. We have two No Dash for Gas

activists who are facing a �5 million claim.

And we will ask should you die, in honour for St Alban.

Time has almost beaten us this morning. But here, right now, Gary

clarbg junior, with Ain't Messin' Round. -- Gary Clark Junior.

# I don't believe in competition # Ain't nobody else like me around

# I don't need your imposition # Continue ain't that hard to

figure it out # Give it up yeah

# Play cool # Give it up, yeah

# Play cool # Give it up now

# Give it up, yeah # Play it cool