15/09/2013 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning and welcome to glorious Glasgow. You might just be able to

see the River Clyde behind me. Yesterday, it was sparkling. And

yes, I know it is earlier than usual, but if you are feeling weary,

spare a thought for us. All night outside the hotel, there were

raucous arguments, breaking glass, angry shouts and general hubbub. Not

a wink of sleep. When I staggered blearily out of the hotel and asked

the guy at the door, "Big game last night?" "No Mr Marr", he said, "very

sorry, but you know what's going on, it's the Liberal Democrats in town"

and so they are. Joining me today for our review of the Sunday

newspapers, a symphony in purple. Two women known for their wit and

strong views, the Glasgow Herald columnist Ruth Wishart and the

strong views, the Glasgow Herald Glasgow-born peer Para Nass --

Baroness Helena Kennedy. A year from now, Scotland will vote on

independence, and I'm sure they will have views on that. But this is the

Liberal Democrat conference. At one level, it really matters. Liberal

Democrat activists have a much stronger say over their party's

policies than their rivals. But this is a party which hopes to join

another coalition, so their policies are up for grabs. This week will see

the beginnings of a new Liberal Democratic manifesto for Britain

ahead of the 2015 election, but are they pious hopes or reliable

promises? I will be talking to Nick Clegg, the Deputy prime minister,

this morning. In the words of one of his own party critics, is he going

into the election like a tin can tied to the Tories' tail? Also this

morning, we will be talking about privatising the Royal Mail, going

ahead despite the threat of a strike in the middle of the sell-off. Is

that now inevitable? I will talk to the leader of the Communication

Workers Union, Billy Hayes. This lovely city once had a terrible

reputation as the home of violent gangs. But so did Birmingham, whose

so-called Peaky Blinders are the subject of a new BBC drama. It stars

one of the most popular actresses in the country, Helen McCrory, and we

will talk to her about that, James Bond and Harry Potter.

But since we are here, we can't leave without some Scottish music to

reflect that. We will present the Southern Tenant Folk Union, who will

play us out. Sorry, Glasgow, they are actually from Edinburgh. First,

the news. Good morning. The United States and

Russia have given Syria one week to publish a list of all its chemical

weapons. It is the first deadline neared a joint plan to destroy

Syria's chemical weapons within a year. The Foreign Secretary William

Hague will meet with US Secretary of year. The Foreign Secretary William

State John Kerry tomorrow to discuss the proposals.

A handshake that marked a breakthrough, an important step

forward in Syria's two and a half year conflict. But as both the US

and Russia made clear, it is a difficult road ahead. The world will

expect the Assad regime to live up to its public commitments. As I said

at the outset of these negotiations, there can be no games, no room for

avoidance or anything less than full compliance by the Assad regime.

Under the agreement, Syria has seven compliance by the Assad regime.

days to declare a complete list of its entire chemical weapons

stockpile. By November, international chemical weapons

inspectors need to be on the ground. All stockpiles are to be

removed from Syria or destroyed by the first half of next year, and

this will be enforced by a new UN resolution. But the two sides differ

about what that could mean in practice. Foreign Secretary William

Hague said the agreement was a step forward, but the commander of one of

Syria's main rebel armies rejected the plan. I told our friends

yesterday to be careful. The regime began to move chemical weapons to

Lebanon and Iraq, and we are afraid the regime will use these materials

against civilians in Syria and fighters of the FSA. President Obama

said that while progress had been made, much more work remains to be

done. He said that if diplomacy failed, the US was prepared to act.

The Pentagon backed that up by saying the usual -- US was still in

position for military strikes. Attention is turning away from

Washington to New York now. The United Nations says it has received

all the documents for Syria to join the chemical weapons convention and

on Monday, a UN report is due to be published which will shed light on

what happened in last month's chemical attack. The hard road ahead

is all about diplomacy for now. Five people are being questioned by

police about a suspected arson attack in Leicester, where four

members of the same family were killed. The man whose family died

said he deeply misses them and that he hopes justice prevails.

Detectives say they can't rule out that the deaths were connected to a

fatal assault nearby hours earlier. The Liberal Democrat conference

continues in Glasgow today. The party's Education Minister David

Laws has announced new government guidance to schools in England on

uniforms in an effort to reduce costs for parents. Later, delegates

will debate the party's controversial policy on tuition

fees. They are returning to the thorny issue of tuition fees which

was so problematic for the party will stop today, the delegates here

will be asked to back a motion which will say that that is the best

policy available. But it did cause a lot of angst within the party, and I

will still be people here who are concerned about that. The lasting

legacy of that policy is that the party will be extremely careful

about what it puts in its next manifesto. The hard realities of

being in government will mean that when they draw up that manifesto,

they will think very hard before putting firm promises in there,

especially ones which cost a lot of money.

At least five people are known to have died and thousands forced from

their homes as floods hit the US state of Colorado. More than 200 are

unaccounted for in the area of Boulder County, but officials say

many could simply be out of contact. Although floodwaters are

many could simply be out of now subsiding, more rain has been

forecast and authorities have warned of more possible flash flooding. A

record 56,000 runners are preparing to take part in the Great North

Run, but forecasters have predicted wet and windy weather.

Gusts of wind are expected to reach speeds of 30 to 40 mph, and it is

likely to rain throughout the event. Double world and Olympic champion Mo

Farah is taking part in the elite men's race. It is live on BBC One

after the Marshall at 9:30am. Good luck to all of them. I will be

back with the headlines before 9:30am.

The Great War swim, more like. Now as usual to the Sunday papers. Not a

lot about the Lib Dems on the front pages, but the Independent on Sunday

has an interesting story will stop Lib Dems activists. Fewer than one

in six want to carry on their pact with the Tories. They would like to

in six want to carry on their pact deal with Labour if they get the

chance. We will talk to Nick Clegg about that. The UK-based papers have

their Scottish editions here, of course. The Sunday Times says the

vote on independence could be much closer than people think. Wise

words, I would say. Scotland on Sunday says the anti-independence

camp is in some danger. I will be explaining why with Ruth Wishart in

a moment. And what David Cameron has to say to save the union, just 130

words. Ruth, the Scottish papers are full of independence and have been

for months and will be for the next 12 months. But this morning, we are

just three days away from the starting gun to one year to go until

the vote. So all the papers have starting gun to one year to go until

supplements about that. This one in starting gun to one year to go until

the Scotland on Sunday is interesting, because it is talking

about Devo Max. It is not tripping off the tongue of every Londoner.

That means giving the Scottish Parliament more powers over taxation

after the vote? That is right. This piece, including an analysis by the

ubiquitous John Curtis, tells us that two thirds of the Scottish

population would vote for more powers rather than being a straight

yes or a strict no. But Devo Max is the one thing they are not allowed

to vote for, which is clever of Mr Cameron. How do the papers breakdown

on the independence issue? Are some of them pro-and anti? Yes. The

Sunday Herald is probably the only paper in Scotland that has come out

in favour of independence, although it will not say so in so many words.

All the English papers are pretty well anti, and the Scottish papers

are either anti-or agnostic. It is not balanced coverage, in my view.

But on the other hand, there is a lot of online coverage and blogging

going on which is more pro-independence. It is interesting

to me that in the Scottish papers, there were big pieces about this

whole issue, and yet it hardly figures in the English newspapers or

the UK's newspapers. It signals to me the fact that this is not yet

being seen as vital in the way that it really will be south of the

border, too. It is a constitutional issue. The impact will be enormous,

and yet somehow, people are sleepwalking towards this. I feel

there has to be a better debate about it. I don't use the word

Unionist, because it does not sit comfortably in my mouth. I don't

describe myself as such, but I certainly am not for independence,

because I think there is more strength in our being together. But

there are important issues here, and I would be happy to see stronger

devolution. But the debate is of a very paltry kind south of the

border. I have come to the opposite conclusion. We are great pals and we

will stay great pals, but interestingly, a lot of people like

me have come to that conclusion not because of nationalism, but because

we hate the society being constructed by Iain Duncan Smith and

co in the South. We think we need a new model. Which presumably means

that if the Labour Party doesn't look like it will wind down south,

that boosts the pro-independence vote in the north? I would guess so.

That is why this is a much bigger debate than we are capable of

having, because it is about the quality of our lives, north and

south of the border, and people are not engaging with it in that way.

Let's move to the subject of the Liberal Democrats and Nick Clegg.

There is a big interview with Paddy Ashdown, looking very relaxed. You

are obviously going to speak to the leader of the party himself, but it

is interesting. You have a big beast in the Liberal Democrat party

talking here. And in the Observer, there is a 2-page spread with Paddy

Ashdown on a rather unfortunately saying that he instinctively hates

both Labour and the Tories. But the Liberal Democrats can only ever be

in government if they partner up with somebody, so they have to bury

in government if they partner up their hatred. But there is an

important story here about Shirley Williams. She says the bedroom tax

important story here about Shirley is a mistake. That goes to the heart

of the great divisions, and there are those in the Liberal Democrats

who know that they are selling out their social justice agenda to being

in government with the Conservatives. It is interesting,

what Paddy is saying. There is this piece with Nick Clegg in the Sunday

Herald. It says Nick Clegg has started to attack the Tories

yesterday. From a Scottish perspective, there are handful of

Liberal Democrat seats in Scotland which are going down the tubes

because it sits very uneasily with Scotland, an alliance with the

Tories. During the referendum campaign, we have now got Labour

politicians on the platform with Tory politicians in the better

together campaign. And there are parts of Glasgow which are put off

by that. Before moving on, this business of Shirley Williams taking

up the bedroom tax. Or the spare bedroom subsidy, as others call it.

I am not going to mince words. This is about making people who have a

bedroom in their house which is deemed to be in excess, where they

go to the local authorities and say, give me a one-bedroom flat,

there aren't any. So they get charged extra money. It is going to

be tough on people who cannot afford this. We have got to keep moving.

Have you got a Syrian story? This is in the Independent. Chromatic

breakthrough as deal is struck on Syrian gas. Three days is a long

time in politics. We don't know whether this was the product of

backstairs deals at the G20. We don't know if it was that alleged

slip from John Kerry, or whether that was a queue for his Russian

counterpart. But this chap, Sergei Lavrov, the Russian Foreign

Minister, is fascinating. He was the subject of a Radio 4 profile.

Everybody who was asked about him mentioned vodka a lot. The only

thing that is clear is that Putin has had a fantastic two weeks. We

may hate him, a lot of people think he is a bogeyman... He is a bogeyman

but he has played a blinder. This is what needed to happen. We needed to

go into the diplomatic field rather than be rattling sabres. And let's

keep our fingers crossed that something happens. And let's not be

parochial. Whoever is getting the credit for this, importantly no one

is tracking missiles into the Middle East. -- chucking missiles. Anything

else to pick up? This terrible story about this fire in Leicester. This

house fire, where a woman and her children were killed. And it looks

as though it has come out of some kind of horrible revenge attack. And

it really is one of those things that leaves you with a chill,

reminding us that we are still caught up in such horrible

violence. Strange goings-on in North Warwickshire? This story is on the

front page of the Sunday Times. It says, arise Britain's Viagra

capital. And this is in Warwickshire, a town that gets 54.8

seven prescriptions per 1000 men. You have to feel sorry for the guy

that got .87 the pill. Interestingly, in rural towns, the

coastal regions, the figures rise. I'll live on the coast and wonder

where these guys are! I think it is about... This final story is an

interesting story about the veil. Is it a human rights to wear a veil in

court? The horrible thing but this debate is that it often descends

into a real reluctance to absorb difference and an intolerance. And

then those who say that we should tolerate anything. In court, there

is a problem, and it is about the fact that we judge people by their

facial expression and the way they respond to things. We read people's

faces and that is how our society functions. In court the is a real

problem about face covering. -- in court, there is a problem. That is

how a jury judges whether you believe people or not. Nobody will

believe this, however, which is that it was balmy here yesterday. It is

coming down steel rods today, that's the phrase. Nothing to do with you,

Andrew. It hardly ever rains in Glasgow! There is a massive storm

going in. For the prospects for the whole of the UK, Gillian Smart is

with us in the studio. There is usually a cracking view of

the Clyde from these windows but not this morning. And if it is not wet

and windy where you are, you will get a return as heavy rain and gale

force winds sweep southwards. It is down to an area of low pressure, the

first storm of the season. It is already bringing heavy rain into

Northern Ireland this evening. The main issue will be gusts of wind, up

to 60 mph across Scotland. We could see some branches off trees and

travel disruption. If you had that to the heavy rain, that could be

tricky conditions on the roads. This afternoon, brighter for Scotland and

northern England although you will still have a raft of showers coming

in. And some gusty wind for the likes of the Welsh Marches -- Welsh

Marches. By this stage, that band of rain extending to the south-west.

This evening, the rain will clear away but overnight, we will keep a

few showers coming in across western parts. And gusty winds overnight.

But clearer in the East with a chilly night. Temperatures in single

figures across the board. Calder in the countryside. Keeping those

showery conditions into tomorrow. Gale force in the Northwest. Drier

and brighter further south. A cold feel to the day. Plenty going on and

you can find more on the BBC weather website.

you can find more on the Last week, the government announced

that privatisation of the Royal mail will go ahead in the next couple of

months, which is possibly not the best timing as postal workers decide

whether or not to go on strike over pay, pensions and conditions after

the business is sold. The leader of the Communication Workers' Union,

Billy Hayes, says they cannot be bought off by £2000 sweeteners of

free chairs. -- free shares. But is bought off by £2000 sweeteners of

there any room for copper mines? Billy Hayes joins me now. This

strike, is it mainly against privatisation or is it a traditional

dispute about pay and pensions? It is about the impact that

privatisation is having on terms and conditions for our people. It always

seems to be that when there is conditions for our people. It always

privatisation, it is the Chief Executive is who make a fortune out

of it, and the postal workers will be damaged by the impact. It is

about the impact of that it will have on our terms and conditions.

But £2000 is a lot of money. Will your members not be tempted by

that? Nobody turns back free money. In this country, we are more

concerned about plastic bags that the postal service. At the Lib Dem

conference, we have the politics of plastic bags. When this conservative

led government has managed to persuade. As managers and councils

to have a strike ballot for the first time in 47 years. What kind of

leadership is that? But you are not going to be able to stop

privatisation? Even a strike will damage the process but it will not

stop it. Privatisation will damage the postal service. Last week, there

was a poll that showed that 70% of the great British public are against

privatisation. It is not called for necessary. -- called for necessary.

Do you not think that this extra money, at a time when you are facing

difficulties, could be good for the business? We need investment, but it

is a more expensive way to borrow money. The government has just

borrowed £1 billion for an extension of the Northern line. In Canada, the

chief of the Canadian post borrow money on the open market, ironically

keeping and off of Canada Post in the open market. Do you expect the

strike to go ahead at this stage? I the open market. Do you expect the

am certain that will be a yes vote in the ballot. We are so confident

of our position we invited Moyra Green to listen to our

representatives. Not one of them was convinced by the arguments put

forward. When there is privatisation, Chief Executive is do

well. We intend to make sure that whatever happens, our conditions are

protected. So there will be a stoppage of UK mail for a while? And

you think that might make the government think twice? This

government, do not know what is in their mind. A government that asks

to privatise a postal service when 70% of the British public are

against it is a government whose judgement I cannot check. It does

not seem possible but this government... It is very difficult

to read, this government. We are about protecting terms and

conditions. If there is one single concession you are looking for that

would make a difference, what is it? Protect the people we represent. We

want to make sure terms and conditions are met. It is a legally

binding agreement that protects the terms and conditions. Make sure that

the people who deliver the mail, the people who go from lands end to John

O'Groats, who keep this nation together, that see more people in a

day then chief executives or politicians see in a week, that

their conditions are protected. They differ joining us, Billy Hayes.

Helen McCrory is a wanted woman. Whether it is in Harry Potter or

James Bond, she is in constant demand on screen. And she has made

her mark as an irreverent cherie Blair in the Queen. But latest role

is in the atmospheric series, Peaky Blinders. And after a gang who hid

lethal blades in their hats, she plays a tough matriarch usurped by

returners from the water. When we met this week, Helen told me how the

series explores how many brutalise soldiers turned to crime when they

returned from Flanders. What would happen to these men, they thought

they were going to be cheered as heroes but they were not. And with

no real guidance, because no longer people believed in the church and

the government, and everything from above was being questioned by the

working class for the first time. People wanted a piece of the action.

And one of the things that makes this unusual is that it is not

simply the violent men. This is a violent family. And you are a scary

matriarch. I am a very scary matriarch, who has been running the

gang for four years. Look at the gun. Recognise it? Get

up off your arts. The police were called out more to break up women

fighting in the streets than men. Women were running households.

He was playing with this this afternoon and it was loaded. He said

he found it on the sideboard at the betting shop with bullets in it. I

must been drunk. When are you not drunk? When it comes to the opening

of this piece, it looks like being a dark Western, or a Chicago gangster

film. The men are more beautiful and the horses are bigger and the women

film. The men are more beautiful and are wilder. It is almost childlike.

This was a decision that the director, when he first looked at

it, decided upon. We have a fantastic tradition in this country

of gritty realism, but he realises was a chance to do something

cinematic. Of all your other roles, a lot of people will remember you as

cherie Blair. A couple of other things. It is man is in hand, not my

arm is in farm. And when you are in the presence of the Queen, do not

sure you're back. Presence?That is what it is called when you are in

Her Majesty's company. Did you feel any sense of empathy towards Cherie

Blair. Add a huge sense of empathy. I've played her twice. When a plate

in the Queen, he was still in Number Ten and so she was very silent. I

studied her as David Attenborough studies a chimp. I would just

watched his little fragments. I've started to study her body language

and why she does what she does. She automatically once... She has the

nervous smile, which came about. And I've started looking at her press.

It was appalling how she was attacked. She was attacked, very

damaging. Did you ever meet before you reprise the role she came to see

a play that my husband and I were in. Remember coming out to the bar

and thinking, it is terribly quiet. There is not anybody here except for

a view policeman and a Little Lady sitting in the corner. And that was

cherie Blair. And she was very pretty, quick to smile and laugh,

very bright. She mentioned -- you mention your husband. We are getting

another series of Homeland. Had he seen Peaky Blinders? Know. And you

have not seen the new Homeland? Have not seen all of the old Homeland. It

is truly distressing. People say, is that because of the love scenes? I

say, no, it is not so much the love scenes, it is when he is bashed to

death on the floor and you're related upon. Why have a problem

with seeing my husband doing that! It is disturbing, even though it is

acting! And your name has been elected to the 77 brand. You were in

Sky fall. Yes. Sam Mendez called me and said, I am doing Bond. And I

thought, the first female Bond, my players have been answered -- my

prayers have been answered! And of course, a new. He said he was going

to send me the script and it was a tiny point but I was, listen, if

there is a part, I will be there. I can call myself a Bond girl. It is

fun. Your husband has been suggested as the next James Bond. Mainly by

me! I think he definitely has a killer instinct. Big packs. -- big

packs to follow. -- pecs. He turned many a man when he came out of the

water. Finally, can ask about Harry Potter? You were in the last three.

The first time your children have understood what you do? My children

have not seen Harry Potter. I have just been introduced to the -- they

have just been introduced to the fact that my husband and I are

actors. They wanted me to be a vet and him to be a fireman. Do not

think that they are very interested. One day they will know you through

Harry Potter. Every child does. They will, but nobody ever recognises me.

I mean even when I come on stage. One was working with Sam, we came

down and Lauren Bacall was standing there, and said, I would like to say

that you were absolutely fantastic. It was wonderful. I said, thank you.

She said, I lot you in breaking the waves. And I said, no, that is

Emily. She plays the other part. I am Helen. She said, I am so sorry.

And I said, it doesn't matter. Ever since Philadelphia story, I have

always wanted to meet you. And she said, you are a dame, we are going

out! I never recognised -- I am never recognised in anything, which

suits me fine. Helen McCrory, channelling Lauren Bacall.

Nick Clegg told supporters at the conference rally last night in

Glasgow that the party should be proud of its achievements in

government, but their opinion poll rating is half what they achieved

before the last general election, they have lost a third of their

party members and their one-time strong base of local councillors has

been smashed. I am joined now by the party leader and Debbie body by

Minister Nick Clegg. What a cheery introduction! I said we need to be

proud of what we achieved, and that is something many of the Liberal

Democrats achieved, because we did something unusual. Firstly, we

achieved a coalition, which was controversial, but the right thing

for the country, given that we were teetering on the economic edge in

2010. But we have taken the opportunities as well as the central

mission of repairing the British opportunities as well as the central

economy to deliver some really important, progressive, liberal

advances in taxation, taking 3 million people out of paying income

tax, more apprenticeships, more money for kids from disadvantaged

backgrounds. These are things we are proud of all stop your central

message is, we are fixing the economy. But your own Treasury

Minister Vince Cable has, he is admittedly not the sunniest natured

man in politics, but he thinks we are now facing another housing

bubble, and can't see the point of the help to buy scheme being applied

in the south, where house prices are already shooting up again. It is

right that given the sorry history of asset bubbles in the British

economy, we need to be vigilant. But Vince would be the first to

acknowledge that we are nowhere near the peak of that unsustainable

housing bubble. Mortgage approvals are about half of what they were at

the peak. House prices are 25% of what they were at the peak in real

time terms. Prices in central London are booming, but that is not the

case in my part of the world in Sheffield. So what we have done on

housing, and this is much more important than the specific design

of a scheme here or there, is that we have started the painstaking job

of building more houses. The great crisis in housing in Britain is that

we simply don't build enough new houses or enough affordable houses.

That is why I am proud of the fact... You are happy with the help

to buy scheme applying to parts of the country where house prices are

already shooting up and everybody is warning of another bubble? If there

is another bubble, we have means by which we can anticipate that and

ensure it does not happen again. But at the same time, it is important to

remember that the first part of the help to buy scheme is about making

sure you provide funding for the building of new houses. It is the

lack of housing that has blighted our housing market for too long.

That is what creates this volatility in prices. On the issue of providing

mortgages to creditworthy borrowers, we are not talking about encouraging

banks to responsibly lend 120% mortgages. You are putting more care

into the bubble. We are giving creditworthy customers the ability

to borrow money in order to get their feet on the first rung of the

property ladder. There is nothing wrong with that. You don't think it

could pop? In parts of London, the housing market is now marching

forward, but you can't set a national policy based only on what

happens in Kensington and Chelsea. You have to think about all the

other households. That is why tomorrow, we are debating a motion

in the Liberal Democrat conference, saying we should relax some of the

strictures on local authorities so that they can play a greater role in

building more affordable homes in their local areas. That is the way

we make sure we have a sustainable recovery and a sustainable approach

to housing. You said you have a great liberal progressive record.

That is only part of the story. What great liberal progressive record.

about the fact that people on benefit have had their benefits are

operated below the rate of inflation, so they have got poorer

during the course of this government? What about bedroom tax,

or if you prefer, the spare room subsidy, the cap on benefits per

household? All measures which most Liberal Democrats would have

opposed, but you have gone along with in government? At the outset of

this government, we took a decision, very much supported by me and the

Liberal Democrats, that even though we had to make these huge savings

because of the fast lack hole in our public finances, the biggest in the

developed world... And it is still growing. That is why we need to

stick to the long-term plan. But we decided that notwithstanding that,

we would protect spending on the things we cared about - the NHS,

schools. Pensioners. We operated that in cash terms by the largest

amount ever. Welfare constitutes a significant part of public

expenditure. Once you take those decisions, you have to find

savings. We have asked the police to find savings of 20%, including on

welfare. At the heart of our proposals, I accept that some of

them are controversial. Harsh as well. But the nub of it is to

increase the incentive to work. And the combination of saying that you

cannot as a household receives more in benefits than if you were earning

£35,000 before tax if you were working, that combined with the

incentive of the tax system, because the Liberal Democrat policy is such

that all the money you earn up to £10,000, that is creating a greater

incentive to keep people in work and that is important when we are facing

these huge economic difficulties, to keep as many people as we have in

work. On this, you sound exactly like George Osborne. I can't let

that go. If the Liberal Democrats had not been in government, everyone

watching this programme would not be receiving £10,000 free of income tax

next April taking it close to 3 million people on low pay out of

paying any income tax. In the leaders' debate, David Cameron said,

it is a nice idea, but we can't afford it. We could afford it

because we insisted that it must happen. It is the most progressive

change in the income tax system, and combined with our welfare reforms,

sharpens the incentive to work to make sure that work always pays. Let

me return to the central issue this conference, which is used laying the

foundations for your 2015 manifesto, and yet it is unclear to anyone

watch the status of those pledges are. Are these promises for the

British people, or are they vary aspirations you would like to

achieve which may be renegotiated aspirations you would like to

the next coalition agreement? For example, you will be talking about

the mansion tax again. If someone votes Liberal Democrat, will you be

absolutely committed to a mansion tax, come what may? Or is it just

something you would like to do? Firstly, what we did in our last

manifesto, which was an innovative thing then and will now be standard

practice for all political parties, is to distinguish between those

policies which are on the front page is to distinguish between those

of our manifesto. Firstly, the pupil premium, then the £10,000 income tax

allowance, then sorting out the banks. Tuition fees?Pupil premium,

£10,000 tax allowance, pushing forward the economy and political

reform. We delivered on all of those. Except reform.We certainly

pushed for it. So there will be red lines? All political parties, given

that it is more likely than not that in the future, you will get more

coalitions, it is less likely that you will get these slam dunk results

were one of the major parties always gets a majority. So it is better for

the parties to be upfront about those issues we will really die in

the trench for and those which depend on the economic

circumstances. 18 months ahead, I am not going to tell you exactly which

circumstances. 18 months ahead, I am issues will make their way onto the

front page of our manifesto. But this is a problem, because if next

week, Ed Miliband says, if I get into government, there will be a 50p

rate of top income tax, we know that is likely to happen if Labour get

in. If David Cameron says, we look at the rate of income tax to 30p,

again, we understand that. It is a plausible outcome. I disagree.

Before the last general election, the Conservatives pledged to give a

huge inheritance tax cut to millionaires, which they didn't do

because we said that was not a priority. The country is facing

because we said that was not a economic difficulty. I believe the

two parties with the biggest challenge to face in drafting their

one of us do are not the Liberal Democrats. We are used to the idea

that we might need to be in a coalition. But you will not say what

your red lines are will stop one coalition. But you will not say what

good reason for that is because I run a Democratic party. I don't just

decreed that this or that policy run a Democratic party. I don't just

will be a die in the trench type on the sea. I can give you a clue. I

suspect that, given that we have put so much effort and money into making

the tax system fairer, tax fairness will be one of the signature

policies for the Liberal Democrats. That includes mansion tax? As a

party, we are committed to raising the allowance further such that we

paid no income tax equivalent of the minimum wage. Everyone on the

minimum wage pays no income tax. The wider point is, our message to the

British people in 2015 will be, we have done good things in

government, but let us finish the job fairly. There are millions of

people in this country who have made huge sacrifices. That would be

squandered if you have a single party government, the Labour or

Conservative 's. It is my genuine belief that if we go back to the bad

old days of either the left or right dominating government on their own,

you will get a recovery which is neither fair nor sustainable. Labour

would wreck the recovery, and under the Conservatives, you don't have

the same commitment to fairness and get the wrong kind of recovery. Our

message is that coalition is good. Let us finish the job fairly. So

Labour would wreck the recovery, but the Conservatives would not be as

fair as they might be. Seems like you are rhetorically leaning towards

them rather than towards Labour. Far from it. I don't want to see a

recovery where, under the Conservatives, they would risk our

exit from the European single market, jeopardising millions of

jobs. They would resuscitate some of the ideas we blocked in government,

like in giving employers the right to fire anyone at will. I don't

think they care as much as we do about boosting manufacturing in

other parts of the economy, not just financial services. And there would

be a danger, with a small Conservative majority, that they

would pursue ideological cuts rather than the pragmatic approach to

deficit reduction that we have taken in the coalition. Coming back to

your red line issues, you showed a bit of skirt on tax, if I may say

so. A bit of kilt. Is that a red line?

I am not going to get into that. The tax allowance was our signature

policy last time, which we have delivered. The biggest

transformation in the income tax in a generation. We want to make sure

no one in this country pays income tax up to the minimum wage. That is

clearly something we care about more than other issues. So if the party

votes against the mansion tax, what does that mean to ordinary voters?

Even though we are committed to deficit reduction on the timetable

we have set out Thomas not doing it in a mad rush, but towards the end

of the next Parliament, within that makes... If I vote Liberal Democrat

and you get into power, will there be a mansion tax? I will not go into

that. As I said, all further deficit reduction has to come out of

spending reductions on public services, the Conservatives say. We

say, imposing taxes on people who can afford it has to go some way

towards filling the black hole in our public finances. And £2 million,

which would be raised by a small levy on the value of properties over

£2 million, is not an inconsiderable amount of money. If the

Conservatives don't want to do that, they need to tell people, and that

will be part of the debate, they need to tell people what they would

cut, from schools, or hospitals or police, to make up that £2 million.

Are you discussing a second coalition agreement with the

Conservatives? Of course not.No conversations of any kind?

Absolutely not. It is not for me, Ed Miliband or David Cameron to have

live discussions. They have not said, let's talk about the future?

If they came to me and said, let's talk about another coalition

agreement, I would give them short trip, because you have to let the

agreement, I would give them short British people have their say first.

At the last election, as you know, there was no possibility of a

Liberal Democrat -Labour coalition, because the numbers did not add up.

You have no problemo with Ed Miliband or Ed Balls? I have only

one preoccupation, firstly, that the Liberal Democrats get back into

government. I think coalition is sometimes a bit rough and ready in

terms of the compromises that need to be made, but it is much better

than either the left or right messing things up on their own. You

don't agree with your colleague who said that the Labour Party are not

equipped to run the country? They have questions to answer at

conference time, but I think their biggest question seems to be that

they have got to spell out what they believe in. I do not know what they

believe on schools or welfare or pensions. I think that it is only 18

months until the general election and they need to start... Of course

they can criticise the opposition, that is their constitutional right,

but they have to show some responsibility for the past, and

also some clarity about what they would do in the future. At the

moment, that is absent. And you could go into government? If the

British people... It is a little matter of democracy. I am a Democrat

British people... It is a little before anything else. My feelings

towards Ed Miliband and David Cameron... But suppose...Those

towards Ed Miliband and David feelings are from to buy my belief

that coalition government has to be a legitimate government, following

the instruction manual handed to us by the voters. -- trumped by. Let's

say neither party gets a majority by the voters. -- trumped by. Let's

but you could form a government with either. A photo finish.With you in

the middle. This feels like Groundhog Day. I think we had these

discussions before the last election and give the same answer. Hayek used

you of being a closet Tory and you got very cross. I'll give you the

same answer now as they did then. I think the party which gets the

clearest mandate from the British people, the most votes and seats, as

the rights, the democratic right, they have the democratic right, even

if it was the Liberal Democrats. Hard to imagine at the moment. The

weather will turn better this afternoon as will our fortunes. We

are now the only party in the liberal centre ground of the Tisch

politics, marrying a commitment to doing difficult things to create a

stronger economy, but doing so fairly. -- British politics. A

counter example, what has happened on immigration. They go home vans.

You had an idea of a bond to help people who had been refused entry.

It has been snaffled by Theresa May. It is a £3000 bond. Can you stop

her? Of course, in a coalition I can. You're going to stop a £3000

bond? I am not interested in an indiscriminate way of clobbering

people who come to this country to bring prosperity and benefits. But

on immigration, creating a tolerant society, to do that people need to

have confidence in the way that the immigration system is run. That is

why have been outspoken in my view that we have to reintroduce exit

checks. That the same time, you must say that an open button economy like

ours -- open economy like ours has to be welcome to those who want to

come here. You are not comfortable with those bands? I think they are

very silly because they do not inspire public confidence, aimlessly

drifting around North London telling people to please go home. Not fear

to have them nationwide? Of course not. You need a fear but firm

approach to immigration. Those who say that you should not be firm at

all... So the vans are off and the general bond is out? We are

discussing the bond because as you alluded, there is a difference in

emphasis. But they are not going to go ahead on the basis of an

indiscriminate bond being applied to visitors to this country. I think it

could, but you would have to pilot it. It could act as an extra

discretionary tool for customs officers, where they have doubts to

whether -- as to whether people will return to their home countries after

their visas expire. People overseeing their visas is the

biggest problem in our immigration system. One way or another, we need

to give the public the confidence that when you give someone a Visa

and tell them they can be here for a certain period of time, that is what

it means. Otherwise, why issue them? Being in coalition has

burnished your popularity hugely. You had an easy time of it. You

going to carry on in politics after the next election? I am really

committed to what is happening. That was irony, by the way. I'd got that

got I was not going to comment on it further. I know more than anybody

else the wide directions -- wild gyrations of British politics. I

believe the decision that we took, however, to get our hands dirty and

pull the country back from the economic rest of this, even at the

cost of political popularity, was right. I believe that the way in

which the government has acted is more their and centre ground and

liberal with us involved. And you could lure back those members who

have left? There are many centre ground voters who want to see

politicians who can be tough when they need to be at our compassionate

when they've must be. There are millions out there who are not going

to be satisfied by the right and left, blue and red, old-style

pendulum of single party politics that has blighted government in this

country for so long -- for so long. For now, Nick Clegg, thank you very

much. Riz Lateef is in London with For now, Nick Clegg, thank you very

the news headlines. Russia and the United States have

given Syria one week to produce details of its stockpile of chemical

weapons. The deadline is part of a deal agreed by American Secretary of

State, John Kerry, and his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov. The

military opposition group, the Free Syrian Army, claims the agreement

will not work because President Assad will move his chemical weapons

to Lebanon. The leader of the Liberal Democrats,

Nick Clegg has insisted he is not talking to the Conservatives about a

second term of coalition between the parties. Said he was willing to work

with either of the other main parties but warned that he believes

Labour still have many questions to answer about their policies on

issues such as education, welfare and public spending.

The leader of the come in occasion workers union, Billy Hayes, has told

this programme that he is certain that his members will vote to strike

over government plans to privatise that his members will vote to strike

the Royal mail. He confirmed that he expects widespread disruption to

postal services. He demanded legally binding agreements to safeguard

workers' pale -- pay and conditions. And those are the headlines. There

is live coverage of the Great North Run here on BBC One at 9:30am. Now

back to Andrew. The Deputy Prime Minister is still

back to Andrew. with me. And my reviewers, Helena

Kennedy and Ruth Wishart. And we also have had from the sub and folk

union, the Edinburgh band whose songs managed to creep into your

psyche, if that is a good thing. It is definitely a good thing. It is

good to be written about at all. I said you were a Scottish band but

good to be written about at all. I actually you are an Irish, English,

Scottish and American band. We are based in Edinburgh. IMovie and my

wife is Scottish. And you play a kind of blue grass, which is quite

big in Scotland. It is big. There are many bands here, including the

fence collective, in Fife. And you have union in your title. You

political? As a songwriter, I am in. I think if you are writing a song,

to make a song good, it has to be about something. It could be

simple, but I have decided to write songs about how I think about the

world. We have got banjos. If we write songs about whiskey and wild

women, it is going to be the end of our careers. But you do not, and

we're going to hear one of your songs very shortly. For now, thank

you. I'm mentioned that we were talking about the independence vote.

What was interesting, the SNP have done an interesting thing, ask in

Scottish footers that if Scotland was already independent, would you

hand power to London, over on affairs and defence. And the Scots

said certainly not. Which suggests that the vote is more fluid and it

is less likely that there will be a big yes vote, less likely than

people in London think. In many ways, what the Scottish people want

is not on the ballot paper. That is greater expression of Scottish --

the Scottish nation and a greater devolution of powers to Holyrood. In

liberal democrat language, it is called home rule. In many ways, that

is where I think we need to go as a United Kingdom. That you cannot have

that discussion on which powers to devolve until you determine that

Scotland is part of the UK. But what devolve until you determine that

was also part of your agenda in the mists of time was federalism. You

have gone very quiet on that. I do not think we have. If you look at

what we have done south of the border, to give more powers to

larger cities, it is probably the biggest act of devolution... But

that is all we have time for from Glasgow. Ready to my guests. Next

Sunday, we will be at the Labour conference. Plus, the luminous

actress, Cate Blanchett, star of the latest Woody Allen film. Join me if

you can add the usual time. But for now, we leave you with the Southern

Tenant Union and their track, Men In Robes.

# Someone told us we're happy there's no fear.

# But freedom disappeared long ago. # I don't have room to breathe, my

family want to leave. # But there's no place to go, I

suppose. # I know the men in robes don't like

to get too close. # It's the symptom of their wild insanity.

# If you multiply desire, keep those figures climbing higher.

# You'll need to twist the truth, eventually.

# And placing ourselves out of play has a logic.

# It brings to the street, formally, loyal subjects torching high. # My

civil service friends. # Say the government just passed.

# Whatever serves a man of dear degree.

# In the corridors of power we're all charged by the hour. # It's

business, no hard feelings, you'll agree. # Inform a committe, suggest

a new policy. # Wheels turn around, in their head, no philosophy at all.

# If you were them, would you lend an ear to sympathy?

# Or turn and shrug, decide to make no harmony instead.