05/01/2014 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning and may you have a happy and peaceful New Year. A

strange thing to bring up on this waterlogged weekend, but remember

the drought of 1976, when Jim Callaghan's government urged us to

"save water, bath with a friend"? Well, now it's updated by the boss

of an energy company who's urging us to save electricity and shower with

a friend. But which friend? Britain needs leadership so we say, let

David Cameron and Nick Clegg lead the way. And joining me today for

our review of the Sunday newspapers, the Labour peer Helena Kennedy and

the BBC's Diplomatic Correspondent, Bridget Kendall. And in today's

papers, the big story is of course the flooding. We'll be going live to

one of the worst hit areas - Malmesbury in Wiltshire, and talking

to our reporter braving the rising tide of water. Inside the papers,

much comment on the year ahead. Is the upturn in the British economy

set to continue through 2014? How will the anxiety over immigration

and all the talk of Romanians and Bulgarians flooding into the UK

boost UKIP? All key questions for the Prime Minister, who joins us

live this morning. He's making a big promise today on pensions and he may

end the year with Scotland opting out of the United Kingdom

altogether. From a real Prime Minister to a fictional one - David

Morrissey, who famously played Gordon Brown in "The Deal" joins us

this morning to discuss his new TV drama about adultery and his work

with the pressure group reprieve. Before all that, over to the news

desk and Sian Lloyd. Good morning. More storms, high

tides and gale-force winds are expected across many parts of the

UK. This morning, more than 100 flood warnings remain across the UK.

There are 46 in south west England alone, where the ground is already

saturated after heavy rainfall in the last 48 hours. In total, more

than 200 homes have been flooded from Cornwall to Scotland, with

miles of coastline battered and roads and fields across the country

left under water. In Belfast the sandbags are out again as people get

ready for more bad weather today and tomorrow. Yet another storm is

coming in from the Atlantic. The Met office has warned of severe weather

in the south of England and Wales along much of the west Coast, as

well as in Scotland and Northern Ireland. That means strong winds and

maybe more than an inch and a half of rain. These pumps are likely to

be on again today, most of the flood warnings this morning are in the

south-west which is already drenched after several days of ferocious

weather. There is a lot of repair work and cleaning up to do. In

Aberystwyth the seafront has been badly damaged, exams at the

university had been delayed for a week as the town tries to recover.

In Devon, the Coast Guard on police will continue their search for Harry

Martin. The teenager went missing on Thursday, after going out to take

pictures of the store. He hasn't been seen since. More than 200 homes

have been flooded in the storms but many thousands of properties have

been protected. With more rain and high winds on the way, flood

defences are about to be tested again.

The Prime Minister has promised that a future Conservative government

would protect the value of the state pension after the next general

election. The so-called triple lock guarantees a rise each year in line

with wages, prices, or by 2.5%, whichever is highest. David Cameron

said in a newspaper interview that he wants to give peace of mind to

people who have worked hard. Labour is also looking ahead to the

next election. Its leader, Ed Miliband, says a future Labour

government would close a legal loophole which he says is being used

to exploit cheap foreign workers. In an article in a Sunday newspaper, Mr

Miliband says stopping agency workers being paid less than

employees would end what he called the "chronic dependency on

low-skill, low-wage labour". The Iraqi government has lost

control of Fallujah, a major city west of Baghdad. It is believed to

be held by a militant group linked to Al-Qaeda. Iraq's prime minister,

Nouri Al-Maliki, has accused the militants of plotting to create an

independent state in the region. England's cricketers have suffered a

humiliating series whitewash in the Ashes, after losing the final test

in Sydney. They were all out for 166. It's only the third time in the

history of the Ashes that there's been a 5-0 clean-sweep.

Staying with sport, we have just heard that the Portuguese footballer

Eusebio has died. That's all from me, for now.

Thank you, Sian. Well as we heard in the news, this is a very anxious

time for people whose homes and businesses are at risk of flooding,

and many are counting the cost of damage done by the bad weather we've

already had. Our correspondent Chris Eakin joins us from Malmesbury in

Wiltshire. There was a bit of respite overnight, certainly here,

and the river levels have dropped slightly. I am in the upper reaches

of the River Avon. There is more rain forecast coming into Cornwall

now and to where I am at lunchtime, a similar amount to yesterday, and

it is a question of everybody with their sandbags at the ready, waiting

to see what it does to the river levels. Because of the saturated

ground, the rivers react extremely quickly. Very difficult to

generalise, but by and large do you think the people are getting the

help they need? The exact problem is the generalisation because I have

travelled a lot with the flooding and it depends entirely on where you

are. People in places are complaining there is an excess of

caution, with the Environment Agency covering their backs, and at the

same time you get people complaining not enough has been done. If you

take exactly where I am, there has been a row since flooding here a

year ago since those houses behind with medieval elements to them,

since they have been flooded, there has been a row about how much has

been done to let the water flow through this historic rich more

quickly. It is an historic site so there is an argument about how much

you change things to make the rain flow quicker and minimise the risk

of flooding. Not everyone will be happy. We are persistently told

there is too much building on areas at risk of flooding, is that the

case? In Malmesbury there is building around this region on flood

plains so it is still an argument, and one which will frankly continue

and it is made no better by this succession of storms in recent

weeks. Thank you. Now to the papers, and

the Sunday Telegraph has picked up a similar story about ending the

pensions lottery and David Cameron's pension promise. In the

Observer, they have the Labour leader's promise on pensions and so

forth, but also the shadow education secretary attacking Michael Gove for

what he calls ugly claims about the First World War, is it being

perverted by left wing liberal historians. Finally, the Mail on

Sunday, the Archbishop of Canterbury text the word "sin" out of

christenings. With me to review the papers are the Labour peer Helena

Kennedy and the BBC's Diplomatic Correspondent, Bridget Kendall. You

have chosen a weather story, I believe. North Wales has taken an

incredible battering, the bottling of railway lines, just an amazing

story about extreme weather, then of course all over the country. And

then the Sun cheerfully says there is snow coming. My eye had been

caught by the Sunday express, the tide of idiots. This is all about

whether tourism, you have to give warnings to make sure people prepare

the bad weather but the downside of that is that people get curious and

they want to take films of it and photographs, and what does that mean

for the lifeguards who are there to save lives? I was drawn to this

picture in the Telegraph of what they are suffering in North America.

This is a picture of a house in Nebraska in the north-west which is

completely frozen. Admittedly it was covered in ice because the firemen

had been there, there had been a fire, but it still gives a sense of

it, -35 degrees. Canada, as usual, deep cold temperatures. Extreme

weather, apparently, will be part of our general experience of the world

that we live in and it is related to climate change. Deny it as they

will, this is seen to be part of our life now. We have to get away from

the idea of global warming as a benign process, it is about extreme

warnings. And you have chosen a story about 1914? Certainly there is

a story here which is about a general business of this being the

year of the anniversary of the First World War's beginnings and there was

a battle about how this should be dealt with. One that it should be a

celebration of Great Britain's achievements in the First World War,

and the other side of the argument which is that the lessons to be

learned are about the horror of it. This is about the left exaggerating

and being unfair on those who lead us into war. There was a wonderful

piece in the Independent, Margaret MacMillan who really is an expert on

this, and she talks about how we are seeing a replication of some of this

in the current politics of our times. She is saying, look to the

Middle East. In the same sort of ways, we are seeing the small

nations at each other's throats, the disintegration of colonising big

empires because the Austrian Hungarian empire disintegrated, but

also the smaller militant groups, political groups like the jihadists

who want to take advantage of the situation, and she has said we are

seeing some of the causes in the First World War in existence at the

moment and should be avoided. Project, it has been said what is

going on in the Arab world is like the sunny Shia division, the huge

tectonic division across the whole region. It is a shift we are

witnessing in Syria, in Iraq, more broadly between Iran and Saudi

Arabia, and it is as if the time has come to revisit those boundaries. It

is about today how boundaries matter less, like the weather and you have

to keep an eye on Siberia to know what is coming here. You have chosen

a story about Libya. This is partly about the same thing because maybe

this is about jihadists, we don't know yet, it is about the British

man who was shot on a beach with a female companion last week. I think

they have now arrested four people but it seems to be a sign of further

lawlessness in Libya. We had terrible little information when it

first emerged last week, but Mark was a good guy who liked and

understood the Libyan people, he worked in the oil industry before

the Libyan revolution and how tragic that he should have met his death

there. Also, in some of the other papers, correspondents have been

talking to people in the oil industry, and maybe this has begins

locations for the future of Libya. How can the oil industry get back on

its feet? There is a thought that this execution is an attack on the

west again, we don't want anything from your region, coming from

extremists. It is a reminder... Lets move back to domestic stories,

pensions all over the Sunday papers. There's a deeper story in this. A

lot of the political parties will make offers to the electorate which

will change their fortunes. A lot comes out of this business of the

challenge to the Conservatives by eye kip. Some polling which we see

referred to on page two of the Independent, polling conducted by

Lord Ashcroft, there is a huge defection of Tory voters away to

UKIP. The polling is showing 37% of people who voted Tory are defecting.

Is the argument older voters are more likely to go to UKIP.

Pensioners are more likely to go back? And older voters turn out. Low

turnout amongst the young who are disaffected who think politicians

are not interested in their lives. This business, where we have the

Health Service, leeching away resources to the health service. The

lowest number of doctors of any European country. Qualified doctors

working within our health service, and middle England suffering and

middle Britain suffering incredibly from what has been happen happening

economically. Here we are seeing a pan ding to UKIP in order to... It

is about trying to get the votes back. We'll see it continuing. But

what's interesting is the Conservatives are in trouble. That's

what this is a story about. I'm sure we'll discuss this with the Prime

Minister. Bridget, your job is to discuss the grimmer parts of the

world. You couldn't invite me on and not do a story with Russia. This is

in the Observer. It is a great picture. The pussy riot musicians

who President Putin let out of prison recently. Part of his charm

offensive to put Russia in a better light a head ahead of the Sochi

Olympics. We just had the news yesterday that he's going to allow

protests at the Sochi Olympics. Maybe limbed where they will be and

who can take part but they will be allowed. He cannot get away from his

critics. We learnt from this story a documentary film director made this

film about the Pussy Riot band. Itlike up for the documentary

category in the Oscars. This goes back to this business of, that in

fact what's happening in Russia is terrible. On human rights there is

still extraordinary and terrible abooss. What's happening in prisons,

people being thrown into jail, forgotten about. We are seeing a

pretence in this period now because they want to have the Olympic Games

go well. President Putin knows this West cares about this But Russia is

called to account on its abuses of human rights. The other side of this

from President Putin's point of view he reckons most Russians do not care

about this. What they will care about at the Olympics is whether

they are safe or not. His biggest worry is to avoid any Jihadists

attacks. There have been two bombs in a Russian city not too far away

in the south. He faces the same threat the West faces. That's what

he sees and has always claimed from the time he came into office. This

is an arc of terrorism. That story about his treatment of Chechnya. We

need something more cheerful! You've very cheerful shoes on at least!

Some of the issues at the front of people's minds is this stuff about

immigrants coming into Britain. Labour is pointing out in fact there

is a loophole which allows agencies to bring in cheap foreign labour who

will be paid less than British labour. It is those things which

happen where agencies, companies are using agencies to actually undercut

the wage agreements that are made. I think those things have to be

addressed. Labour's Ed Miliband is raising that issue. Let's move to

the Everley Brothers. One of those two iconic musicians has died. A

loss to music. A sad story because he's dead but there is a good side

to it. Re-evaluation of the Everley Brothers. This is the Mail on

Sunday. It is in most of the papers writing tributes to him. The theme

is all the same. The quote is summed up by Gary Kemp from sand owe

ballet. If you are a Beatles fan, you owe to to Phil Everly. Finally

getting the Rec anythings he deserves. The best cartoons of the

day? They are Matt's's. It is somebody looking in the fridge

saying if 77,000 Bulgarians and Romanians turn up we've enough cold

turkey to feed them all! Another, UK arrivals, come to the front of the

queue if you can play cricket. We didn't mention that story. Very wise

of us. Thank you for that. Now, the weather. Like a lot of people, I'm

having a dry January. Looking out of the wind he it is clear the Almighty

has not made the same commitment. Now over to Darren Bett.

We've had a cold, frosty and icy start this morning. Do not be

fooled. We are expecting the winds to freshen today blowing in cloud

and sweeping rain to all parts of the UK. It is coming from the

Atlantic. Look at this curl of cloud wrapped around low pressure. It is

throwing ahead this belt of cloud. That is bringing the rain. Turning

wet in Northern Ireland, Wales and the south-west. Heavy rain over the

hills. That rain will creep eastwards, clouding over in the

morning for eastern areas. Rain later. Not arriving to the eastern

coasts until later in the day. Turning milder the in south-west.

Gales around western coasts. No worse than that today. The winds may

strengthen overnight. Further bursts of rain. Sweeping down to the

south-east. Clearer skies follow that for a while before showers gang

up in the north-west. Because rain's not far away and it is windy tonight

milder than last night. Tomorrow will be windier than today. Gusts of

630 mp hrnings around some western coasts. Threat of further coastal

flooding with high tides. In between, bands of showers rushing

from west to east. Some showers squally, hail and thunder.

Temperatures above average. All the wet and windy weather is due to this

area of low pressure. It is it is close by on Monday it will be windy.

Through the rest of the week, the low pressure retreats taking the

winds away. The winds not as strong and hopefully not as much rain. If

that happens, it will be good news. David Morrissey is no stranger to

playing troubled men in challenging circumstances. Who could forget his

brooding younger Gordon Brown in Channel 4's The Deal. Or State of

Play. His latest role is in the new BBC drama The 7:39. Written bind

Nicholls it is as like a Brief Encounter of the 21st Century.

Morrissey's character is married to Olivia Colman whose life goes off

the rails when he embarks on an affair with fellow commuter Sheridan

Smith. You're in my sheet. Was it reserve? I don't see reserve aces. I

put my colt up and you barged in. You sneaked in. I didn't, I just sat

down. There are rules. Otherwise this becomes a free for all. No need

to shout. ? If you need it so badly, I'll get up. I am I'm getting off at

the next stop. How kind. What a kind man. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So

everyone's happy! It is amazing how shaving off a beard has a youthening

affect. Maybe a message for Jeremy Paxman! I had a colour in my beard.

Takes the edge. This is an unusual drama. There are lots of dramas on

television and in the cinema about affairs and adultery. This is about

the aftermath. It is bleak, not bleak but a strong moral message? I

get offered a lot of roles and read a lot of scripts which at the heart

have a thriller aspect. Children going missing etc, I love Reading

them and being in them but when I read this there was something real

about the heart of it. It is a grown-up drama. You mentioned in

yourenttoe Brief Encounter. People said that to me. That is one of my

favourite films. Then it was a different time. It is not a

commuterland affair. Nothing actually happens? We also never see

Trevor Howard's wife in that world. I felt this was a much muddier

world, a much realer world. The consequences of their actions is

played out. That's very important. It is not this heady, it is for a

while which happens between these two people who find each other in

this commuterland which is a tough place to exist as I'm sure many

people know. They find each other. The second half of the drama plays

out the consequences of their actions which is very important.

Those bib lickly attuned, it goes back to Corr inn yens, a verse

against adultery. A gap in my research! It is set in commuterland.

Havings filmed on trains, how easy was that to do? It was very

difficult. That is our great production department securing that.

One of the great things for me with this drama is you get to know, not

like in commuterland, you get to know the other people on the train,

who play extras. Every weekend we'd get together and do the train stuff.

It was the easiest time for us to film. Those supporting actors when

we get to Waterloo have to walk around in the background but act as

chaperones for anyone who wants to get into the film. They really saved

us working in places like Waterloo Station. They were fantastic.

Outside the acting world you work a lot for a charity Reprieve. People

who are on death row off the hook. Why that charity? It is not off the

hook. They are just trying to give them legal representation. I came

across Clive Stafford Smith many years ago, I saw him in a film 14

Day of May. He was on death row. It was an American pen tensionry. In

the middle was an upper class English gentleman, this man's human

rights, he was representing them. His fashion and submitment really

moved me. I -- miss passion. And commitment. Guantanamo was supposed

to be closed down. Obama's not done that. 15 5 people are onning hunger

strike and have been cleared but are still at Guantanamo. Sheikh owe

mayor has been there really since it opened. He's been cleared for

release by the Bush and owe mam a administration. Nothing's happened.

It is about highlighting that. Keeping it very much at the

forefront -- Obama. There's a lot of Criticism of actors and luvvies. I

know you loath the phrase, people getting involved in these campaigns.

How do you react to that? You want people to get involved in campaigns.

Be aware of things which concern them. There are obvious campaigns

one can get involved in which we all love. They are about abuse,

charitable projects but something which has human rights at the heart

of it is dear to me. It is a very difficult subject to get involved

with sometimes. You can get criticism about that. The important

thing is the campaign carries on for me. It is not about my personal

criticism. It is about the people suffering at the heart of it. It is

about justice for all. We support that, it is about how to deliver

that message. I mentioned your iconic role as Gordon Brown. He's

become an non-person in Westminster politics, not seen, not much talked

about, except in a hostile way. How do you see him now. You got under

his skin at the time? That was a drama about a specific time in

Labour history. I saw great Shakespearian parallels with that

relationship between those two men. From an ideology point of view you

respected Gordon Brown. It is strange with modern politics, that

sense of how it is presented for people. I don't want my politicians

to have a good day on Sr I got news for you. I want them to fight their

policies. I don't want them on panel shows. If people don't perform on

television it is a big ground and a lot of work goes on behind the

scenes for politicians to make them presentable on TV. You think it is

shallow? It is not shallow. It is about sometimes the message can get

lost in a packed news agenda. It is hard. It is a different time now.

For now, thank you. Deml And now to my main guest this

morning. Depending on who you listen to this morning, we are an

over-borrowed and under-productive country threatened by break-up, or a

great European success story, taking the necessary tough measures and

about to roar ahead of France and even Germany. David Cameron, who by

and large takes the latter view, joins me now. Can I start by asking

about immigration? You were severely criticised by Vince Cable on the

language about immigration, but I put it to you that the problem we

have is that we have no idea of the numbers we are talking about. You

must have some notion of how many Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants

will be coming over in the next five years and so on. We are not making a

forecast because it is unlikely we would get it right. It is not just

Britain that has had to lift its controls, they are also being lifted

in France and Germany and eight other European countries. To make a

forecast would be wrong. My job is to put in place the measures that

make sure the people who do come here are coming to work and not

claim benefits. On the forecasts, it would be completely bonkers given

the effect on schools and the NHS to have no idea of the numbers coming

in so you must have a number. I have no idea and I haven't made a

forecast because you would be trying to forecast how many people would

come to Britain rather than the other European countries, and the

last forecast made by the last Labour Government at the time of

Poland's accession to the EU was a ludicrous forecast of 14000 and it

turned out that over a million people came. I believe in learning

from that mistake, having transitional controls for as long as

possible, having transitional controls that go on much longer, or

having a test so that if their wages are much lower then perhaps you

delay entry to our labour market for longer. This time they said quarter

of a million people over five years, is that ludicrously high or low? My

job is to put in place proper controls so we investigate that

people are not being paid less than the minimum wage, to make sure that

we deal with illegal immigrants, to make sure that if people cannot

sustain themselves that they are removed from the country. Is it

acceptable that Romanians and all variants who work here with children

back home can claim child benefit in Britain and send the money straight

back? That is not right and it is something I want to change, it is a

situation I inherited. We either have to change it by getting

agreement with other European countries, and there are countries

who believe it is wrong, like me, I don't think we should be paying

child benefit to their family and Poland. To change that you have

either got to change it with other European countries at the moment, or

potentially through the treaty change that I will be putting in

place before the referendum about Britain's membership of the EU

before 2017. Are you sure you can do -- go ahead with your plans on the

NHS? It is right that people who don't have the right to use it

should be charged with it and we are putting that in place. The

immigration cap, many people including Vince Cable say that it is

illegal and you wouldn't the able to do it. Migrants from outside the

European Union who come here for economic reasons, we have a cap on

that, but what we are looking at in the future is that as new countries

join the EU, what sort of arrangements we can put in place for

them, and as we renegotiate our position in Europe, can we have

tougher measures on migration in general. So it is not a cap for

Romanians and Bulgarians? It is about the renegotiation in the

future of our relationship with the EU. Is it that movement within the

EU has become the key thing to discuss? Britain has benefited and

will continue to benefit from people with skills coming to Britain and

contributing to our economy, but I think two things have gone wrong.

One is movement to claim benefits, there is a problem there, but

secondly what has gone wrong, the scale of the movements have been so

big. When Poland and the other A8 countries, when they joined 1.5

million people initially came from those countries to Britain. That is

a massive population move and I think we need proper and better

controls. It is an issue I would want to address in the

renegotiation. There must be different rules before the next

group of countries succeed? Every time a new country joins the

European Union, there has to be unanimity around the table about

what the arrangements are so Britain will be able to insist on a

tougher, more robust regime. Broadly speaking, do you think the

immigration levels we have seen over the last ten years have been good

for Britain or bad for Britain? It has been too high. Immigrants bring

value to Britain and many become British citizens, but over the last

decade it has been too high. We saw net migration under the Labour party

of 2.3 million, the scale was too big, the pace was too fast and it

was not properly managed and thought through. Peter Mandelson said that

the last Labour government sent out search parties to look for migrants

to come to Britain. The key thing is not just our migration policy, there

is a three sided coin, immigration, welfare and education. If we get our

education and welfare systems right, we will get more British people into

the job is made available and that will reduce pull factor the UK. Net

immigration is going up at the moment, it increased last year from

the previous year. It is down almost a third since I became Prime

Minister. I said we want to get it to the tens of thousands, we are not

there yet, but it has come down by just less than a third. We want to

close down bogus colleges, when I became prime minister there were a

lot of bogus colleges attracting people into Britain who were

claiming to be students. I don't blame those people, if they don't

have any money of course they want to come but it has got to be

managed. It is very difficult to measure who goes out, which is a

really big problem. Absolutely right, as well as proper entry

controls, you need proper lexicon controls and we are putting them in

place over the next couple of years. It will be linked to the e-border

scheme. Let's turn to Europe. You told me six months ago that it was

an urgent matter to get the list of demands for your renegotiation from

Europe, there is still no sign of that. I don't really accept that.

Even before starting this renegotiation, we have won back

powers from Brussels. I got us out of the bailout scheme, so we don't

have to bail out other countries, I have managed to cut the EU budget,

the first prime minister in history to do that, next year it is going

down rather than up, and I have started to set out those things that

needed to change. We need change on claiming benefits, on free movement,

I said we want to get Britain out of the idea that there is an ever

closer union within the European Union. We don't want that, we want

to have trade and cooperation, so we are making progress. I have set

until 2017 to give time to get the renegotiation right. At the moment,

half of the British population according to polls want to leave the

European Union, and you are creating a referendum that will allow them to

do so. We don't have any sign yet of what the red lines will be. We are

still in a position where most people want to leave. What most

people in this country want is a real choice. They don't want a

choice of shall we stay in this organisation that isn't working or

shall we leave, they want to change it and then decide, and that is what

they will get from me as prime minister and former Conservative

government. When, if ever, we will hear from you, these will be my red

lines without which I will not go to the British people. I have already

said some of them, but also we need more flexibility, more

competitiveness in small businesses, and I have given myself, rightly,

the referendum... If I am prime minister, there will be an input

referendum before the end of 2017. -- in-out. I think it is

achievable. Because the rest of Europe, because we have 18 countries

now in a single currency, they need change, more common taxes, more

banking unions, and they need change, and as they need change, we

should be able to get change as well. It is not achievable if you

are still linked to the Liberal Democrats who oppose this tooth and

nail. The Liberal Democrats have their own views about Europe, but I

have said clearly if we are going into the next election with a clear

agenda on Europe that I think people will back, and to put it beyond any

doubt, if I am Prime Minister there will be a referendum by the end of

2017. If there isn't an overall majority, you would prefer to run a

minority government done with the coalition? I am going all out for a

Conservative victory, I think that is achievable. We have a long-term

economic plan which is working, we have 400,000 new businesses

operating in Britain, we are one of the fastest-growing countries now in

the Western world, but we cannot be complacent. The job is not even

halfway finished. This is a vital time in the history of this country

and the opposition are committed to on doing our good work. They want to

spend more and taxed more. And yet the public is in favour of that,

according to the polls. Is for me it is about putting in place the

long-term plan, and I am content I will be judged in 2015, but the

public need to know that the opposition are committed to undoing

all of that good work. It would be like handing back the keys to the

people who crashed the car in the first place. They have learned

nothing about the economy. And yet they are nine points ahead, what is

the camera and problem? When you are delivering a long-term economic

plan, reforming welfare and education, making sure small

businesses can hire people, you have to make difficult decisions. We made

very difficult decisions, asking people to retire later, lifting the

pension age to 66, and as a result, I can say today that we will have

the pension plan for the future. We are not fighting the election yet,

it will be in 16 months. I want to do everything I can to turn this

country around and give it a chance of success. The public will judge at

the election and I think perhaps politicians, the media, everyone, we

spend too much time on the daily strategy political battle, who was

up and down, I am not interested in that. I have this opportunity to put

in place a long-term plan that gives this country a real chance of

success. Let me turn to pensions. There is a

triple lock in place. Pensioners until Twenty20 are guaranteed no

increase? That's right. Pensions go up by 2. 5%. Earnings, prices or

which ever is highest. Earnings haven't been going up quickly

because we've been recovering from this appalling recession we've had

under Labour. We are saying because we've taken these difficult

decisions, because we are asking people to retire later, first to 66

and then upwards. We are able to make this decision we'll keep the

triple lock in place until at least the next Parliament so people know

wages will be growing. If they didn't, your pension will be

protected because you have the 2. 2.5%. This is a huge commitment for

the Government when you are cutting in so many other areas. It is

connected to the fact 68% of pensioners vote? A much higher

proportion than any other group? No, it is a choice based on values. I

want people to have dignity and security in their old age. People

who've worked hard, done the right thing. Provided for their families.

They should know they will get a decent state pension not lagging

behind earnings. We have to do more to help young people. Which is why

we are abolishing the jobs tax. Investing in apprenticeships. The

choice I make is yes, we should be giving pensioners dignity and

security. You can't prioritise everyone but you are pensioners. Is

it at times when you're putting a welfare cap? It is fair, you should

be protecting pensions. In terms of working age welfare which we have

tried to reduce and control, we put in place a welfare cap so a family

is never better off out of work than in work. That is right. There is

more we can do in terms of reforming welfare. Going back to the #e78

immigration argument, people need to be keen to go to work rather than

live on welfare. That job is not yet complete. You are going to put in an

overall welfare cap. How and when is that going to happen? Will it be a

%age of total GDP or Government cash spending? The Chancellor will be

spelling it out in the weeks to come. We control tightly the

spending departments do, the home office and the agriculture

department and such like. We haven't controlled in the past in this

country the welfare bill which has gone up and up and up. You put in

place a welfare cap on the overall budget. We exclude pensions from it.

If you have to break that welfare cap because you're not getting

unemployment down, you're not dealing with the problems of

welfare, you'd have to have an explicit vote in the House of

Commons. It is to encourage the Government and House of Commons to

control all of Government spending not just some of it. This suggests a

tough squeeze on housing and child benefit. Once you take out pensions

that's what you're really talking about? Housing benefit has gone far

too high. We are spending something over ?20 billion a year on housing

benefit. That is an enormous amount of money. We've already made some

big changes. When we came to power some families were getting up to

?80,000 a year in housing benefit. We've stopped that. Put a cap on it.

There's more we can do to reform our Ben pilothouse /* -- benefits

system. I want young people when they leave school and university to

have a choice of earning or learning. The idea of signing on,

getting housing benefit, living lives on benefits, the Dutch other

countries don't allow that. You can eastern or learn but a life on

benefits is not an option. What about wealthier pensioners being

able to pick up benefits, television licences, free travel, winter fuel

and so forth? Will that continue? I made a promise if I became Prime

Minister I would keep in this Parliament those things. We've kept

that. It is important to keep these promises. Will you make this promise

again? We'll set out our plans for the next election in our manifesto.

I made promises like delivering on our aid promises. When you make

these very clear public promises, you should keep them. What about

taxation? You'd like to bring the rate down to 40p. I want taxes which

mean the rich pay not just a fair share but I want the rich to pay

more in taxes. You should set tax rates which encourage people to

eastern, set up businesses and then pay taxes. With the 45p rate, it

will bring in a better percentage of money than the 50p rate did. You

should always look at though you set taxes in that way. The priority and

the priority of this Government is to target tax reductions on the

poorest people in our country. That's why we've raised to ?10,000

the amount you can eastern before you start paying taxes. Why we've

frozen the council tax, cut petrol duty. Do you want to cut the top

rate of income tax? We'll set taxes to raise revenue. Not to make a

political point. If I had money in the covers, you would target that

money at the lowest paid, at those who work hard, who want to get on.

Those are the ones who need our help. You cannot cut taxes unless

you control spending. The opposition is not committed to controlling

spending. There are further spending reductions which have to be made.

Only then can you cut people's taxes. We have cut taxes but not by

increasing borrowing. Talking about spending commitments. Are local

authorities struggling with floods because the Environment Agency and

their own budgets have been cut too far too fast? On the Environment

Agency and flood defences we are spending ?2. 3 billion in this

four-year period on flood defences. We enabled them to access other

sources of money, partnership funding. We'll see record levels of

spending on flood defences. We've guaranteed that until 2020 so they

can plan for the future. Local authorities have had to make

difficult decisions. The Environment Agency has to control its budgets

carefully. We have increased the amount of money they get for

frontline... You're happy? First of all huge sympathy for anyone who's

had a house or office flooded. It is dreadful. I think community response

has been incredible. I saw how people come together, help, the

emergency services have done a great job. There are always lessons to

learn. We are doing a lot more things better. Flood warnings are

better, flood defences have protected tens of thousands of

homes. There will be always lessons to be learned. If this September the

Scots vote to leave the UK it will be a body blow to the authority of

qlour own Government but you seem determined not to debate openly with

Alex Salmond? I hope the Scots vote to stay in the UK. It was right to

give them that choice. They voted for an SNP Government in Scotland.

If the UK Government said we are not listening, you can't have a

referendum, that would be wrong. We've done the mature sensible

thing. Let's have a fair and decisive and legal referendum. As of

this issue of the debate, Alex Salmond is losing the current

argument and wants to change it. This is not a debate between me and

him. Between the Prime Minister of the UK and the first minister of

Scotland. Shouldn't it be? No. The debate should be between people in

Scotland who want to stay and people in Scotland who wanted to go. But it

affects you and everybody across these whole islands not just the

Scots. It does and we debate these things in Parliament and the media.

The key question, does Scotland stay in the united kingdom or leave, that

is for the Scots is to decide. I don't have a vote. I'd vote to keep

our family of nations together. It is for the Scots to decide. Prime

Minister, for now, thank you. Over to Sean for the news headlines. The

Prime Minister has promised a future Conservative Government would defend

the level of the stays pension. David Cameron said he would retain

for the next Parliament the so-called triple lock which

guarantees that pensions rise in line with average earnings,

inflation or at a rate of 2. 5% which ever is higher. He said it was

a choice based on values and people deserved dignity and security in old

age. But he declined to say whether the next Conservative fan fess toe

would include a promise to retain university pension benefits such as

the winter fuel allowance. More storms, high tides and

galeforce winds are expected across American are parts of the UK as

communities assess the damage of the bad weather. Over 100 flood warnings

remain in place. There are 46 in south-west England alone where the

ground is already saturated after heavy rainfall in the last 48 hours.

That's it from me, the next news on BBC is at 1.00: We're back for our

seventh series at 10.00am. We're discussing immigration with

politicians. Journalists, people of faith and having a baby over 40, is

it selfish and last, sin. See you at 10.00am. Here the Prime Minister is

still with us as are Helena Kennedy and Bridget Kendall. I was going to

ask about Syria. It is a big interest of Bridget's here. It could

be said the Labour Party got you off the hook. We'd be engaged in a war

if it hadn't been for that vote in the House of Commons. Are they

right? No-one was contemplating going to war in Syria. It was what

was the right reaction to the chemical weapons in Syria. It was a

tough reaction. The message was clear enough so I believe the Syrian

Government are making steps to get rid of their chapelal weapons. We

must measure and quantify what's happening. It is a tragic situation

which we need to do more about. Prime Minister, I wanted to ask with

the Sochi Olympics. You made a lot about the Olympic bond. You flu out

to -- flew out to Sochi. Your office made it clear you're not going to

Sochi Olympics? My schedule is not set yet. We are not boycotting the

Sochi Olympics. Ministers and athletes will be going. I wish them

a successful Games. I raised issues about human rights and gay rights

with president poult /* as I always do. We wish them a successful Games.

Our switch thinks to those victims of those Islamist extremists

attacks. Can the rufrpingss guarantee a safe Olympics? We're

working with them. We'll give advice all the way through. Prime Minister,

your Government is making a lot of noise about pulling out of the

European Court. How can you talk about Europe rights to Russia who

will be rubbing their hands in glee if Britain pulls out of the European

Court of Human Rights? We have a proud record of European Court of

human rights even before that was started. The message to Putin, if we

pull out of the European Court, that's great, we can ignore them too

and ignore human rights? I don't accept that. The court of human

rights said prisoners want the vote. I'm not happy for prisoners to have

the vote. We are out of time. Sorry. Join us again next week. I'll be

joined by Nick Clegg for the second of our party interviews of 2014. In

the meantime, we'll leave you with a song from the ever brother on the

weekend Phil Everly sadly died. Here he is with brother Don singing Long

Time Gone. Goodbye.

# You cheated me and left me lonely # I tried to be your very own

# There'll be a day you'll want me only

# But when I leave, I'll be a long time gone

# Be a long time gone, be a long time gone

# Yes, when I leave, I'll be a long time gone #