22/12/2013 The Andrew Marr Show

job and everybody does their job. Good morning! Welcome to our final

show of the year, complete with festive flavour. Yes, a special

programme, politicos and peers, movie stars, music and Nigella's

mince pies. Well, all right - no mince pies and sadly no Nigella. But

as for the rest, three magi, three wise newspaper reviewers. Coalition

Defence Minister Anna Soubrey, BBC Middle East editor Jeremy Bowen, and

that great impressionist, Rory Bremner.

But at the heart of this show we've always had politics and how it

effects the rest of us. After a year of economic recovery but widespread

hardship too, we're looking ahead at the future for spending, taxes, and

jobs with a man who ought to know. Vince Cable, the Business Secretary.

How does he feel about a country in which many are borrowing so much for

a Christmas splurge but half a million people rely on food banks to

feed their families? And what of the Labour vision? Will

they enter the next election with the traditional trade union links?

Peter Mandelson, one of the original creators of New Labour, is with us

to talk Ed, Ed and the road ahead. Many of us have Nelson Mandela in

our heads from watching news programmes, but as for the next

generation, they'll get their ideas of him from the big screen. In

particular, a new film. If needs be, it is an ideal for

which I am prepared to die. Its star, Idris Elba, is a Londoner,

better known to many of us from The Wire and Luther. I've been speaking

to him. Did I say music? Oh, yes. One of the biggest musical hits in

London's West End, The Commitments. The people's music. There you go,

red hot blues, impeccably neutral as ever. All that and more in a little

while. First, the news with Naga Munchetty.

Andrew, thank you. Good morning. David Cameron has been warned that

his plans to tighten the rules on immigration could isolate Britain

and damage its reputation. The Bulgarian president, Rosen

Plevneliev, says that Britain should stay true to its legacy as a great

global power that pioneered integration and not play on people's

fears. John Andrew has more. It is just ten days before

Bulgarians and Romanians will have the right to come to the UK to live

and work. No-one knows how many will come, but under political pressure,

David Cameron brought in last-minute restrictions that. Newcomers

claiming out of work benefits for three months. -- that will stop. Now

the President of Bulgaria has waded into the debate. In an interview

with the Observer he sells Bulgarians are now raising questions

about how humane and tolerant Britain really is. He said he had

concerns for the safety of Bulgarians already living in the UK.

Downing Street said that while free movement was a central principle of

the EU it could not be a completely unqualified one.

The body of a British surgeon who was found dead in a prison cell in

Syria is being flown home today. Abbas Khan, a 32-year-old

orthopaedic surgeon from South London, died just days before the

Syrian government had said he would be freed. Mr Khan's family believes

that he was murdered. The Syrian authorities claim he took his own

life. More than a million elderly people

in the UK are malnourished, according to Age UK. The charity is

piloting a project which aims to identify those most at risk. The

project is backed by the Government as part of its response to the

Francis Report into the failures at Mid Staffordshire Hospital, which

revealed that patients had not been helped to eat or drink properly.

The 11th series of Strictly Come Dancing has been won by the model

Abbey Clancy. Abbey, who is married to the Stoke City footballer Peter

Crouch, lifted the BBC show's glitterball trophy. More than six

million votes were cast in the all-female final. She beat soap

actress Natalie Gumede and, of course, the bookies' favourite,

Breakfast's Susanna Reid. That is all from a for now, I will

be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock. Now let's get

back to Andrew. Many thanks, in the papers it is

Nigella Wars, in the sun on Sunday, Nigella was a spaced out zombie. On

the other hand, the Mail on Sunday, the defiant goddess, I have

toughened up. The story very much in her interests there. Plenty of other

stories, too, I am blessed as a! Lee Rigby in the Sunday Mirror, a

terrible story about his killer, the Sunday express, bunking up in

Sandringham. The Lockerbie bombing 25th anniversary is coming up soon,

and the Independent on Sunday has gone without story, and the Sunday

Times as Nick Clegg blocking anymore curbs on migrants taking on the

Prime Minister, we will be talking to Vince Cable about that. And the

wonderful Susanna Reid, who did not make it to the final of Strictly, I

think that picture earlier in the evening. A bit more of the Nigella

Wars there. The observer taking a different line on Europe, Bulgaria

issues beers rebuke to Cameron on migrants, we heard about that in the

news. As promised, a brilliant set of paper reviews, Anna Soubry, you

have picked the Nigella story, which is absolutely everywhere, almost too

much Nigella! I think the whole thing is disgraceful. I think we are

beginning to lose the plot. Pas is disgraceful. This started with an

unfortunate divorce, and it started with a photograph of her being

assaulted by her husband, and so out in public was played what should

have been a very private and distressing moment. As a result of

that, they were divorced. These criminal proceedings have already

begun back in 2012, and now we have had this playing out of this court

case where Nigella Lawson, quite properly, complains she was on

trial. I thought Rachel Johnson's bees made that very clear in the

Mail on Sunday, and I thought that it may be hereditary, but she spoke

great sense about it. She is Boris's sister! Talking sense?

Seriously, this is appalling, and this woman, it is almost like the

tradition of a feeding frenzy. I just find it utterly appalling. They

should shut up. Many of us agree with you, but there is an issue

about middle-class drug taking, is it acceptable to take cocaine if you

are rich enough? I am quite relieved that she said the cocaine use was

occasional, otherwise Waitrose might have been expecting a Christmas

rush! In the Observer they were talking about the old days of the

News of the World, a circulation of 8 million from courtroom sensation,

reporting the lurid details. I think Rachel has made the point that they

started the case before they were divorced, so the question is, why

did they put themselves through all of this? The answer was, the judge,

when this e-mail came out from Charles Saatchi about Higella, the

judge ruled their domestic life became at missable. They should have

pulled the plug and said, we are not going to court. I think she said she

did not want to be there, but she was a prosecution witness. I think

we would agree that there is something very disturbing about the

fact that Charles Saatchi has used a PR man who apparently has been used

by the two accused, sorry, acquitted, the two sisters, who has

put on his blog a copy of statements from them. This troubles me hugely.

What is going on? Something I almost never say, that is enough Nigella! A

very serious story that you have been carving, Jeremy, Syria. Yeah,

and in the Sunday Times, the latest from the poor refugees in the

camps, there is a picture of a charred in a camp in Lebanon, and an

appeal for money. -- a child. Put your hands in your pockets, because

while a lot of money has gone there, there is never enough, because the

problem keeps getting worse. I think there are now 2 million Syrians who

have fled as refugees, and within the country there are six, seven, 8

million displaced from their homes, often more than once, often more

than three times. This is in a country of 23 million. And that

includes a lot of Christians. In the Sunday Telegraph, Douglas

Alexander, the Labour frontbencher, have said that they should make more

of the plight of Christians in Syria and in the Middle East generally. In

the Syrian war, Christians tend to support Assad, because they see him

as the protector of minorities, and they are worried about the jihadist

groups taking over the opposition fight there, the armed opposition.

But we have covered the Christian story, and I was in a Christian town

where they still speak Aramaic, the language that apparently Jesus

spoke, and that was under attack by Al-Qaeda type forces. And one of the

very angry Christians there, very displeased by day feel the way the

West has dumped them, 2000 years ago we sent to Saint ball to take you

out of the darkness, and what do you send us? Al-Qaeda! -- Saint Paul.

That is a rebuke you cannot answer. Programme and it is not just about

Christians. They have traditionally had a very important place in Middle

Eastern countries, and it is not just Syria. The Christian

communities in Iraq have been very badly damaged, and also in Jerusalem

itself. Christians in Jerusalem are, in the main, Palestinians, and they

feel pushed out, too. 25 years since Lockerbie, and you have chosen a

story from the Independent on Sunday. I am surprised there has not

been more coverage of the Lockerbie disaster, tragedy, terrible act of

terrorism, the worst, I believe, we have experienced in the United

Kingdom, and it is on the front page of the Independent, and there is

this piece by Jim Swire, who many of us remember as the father of one of

the victims. A tireless campaigner. He makes the point... He says there

is a cover-up. And he will continue to campaign, but it is right and

proper we should remember that bombing 25 years ago. I was in

Lockerbie that day, 25 years ago this morning, I was in Lockerbie,

and apart from the place where the wing had hits and this massive

explosion, the town was just covered in bits of aeroplane, there were

seats with body still in them in groups, horrendous. Your sister was

the GP there. I remember very well. I was in Glasgow, a couple of weeks

ago, when the people responded wonderfully, and there was a simple

act of kindness when they took the clothes of the victims and they

washed and ironed them and sent them back to America. Just a simple

human, just extraordinary. It still is a very fine town. Rory, moving

on. A lot of tributes to David Coleman, who died yesterday, a very

good one in the Daily Telegraph, by their sports correspondent, making

the point that he thought of himself above all as a journalist, and his

finest hour was 30 hours of coverage at the Munich Olympics where his

journalistic background to go over. But we've a member him from Spitting

Image, Colemanballs, and there are a lot in this year, you cannot believe

what is not happening! This is Brendan Foster by himself, with

20,000 people. There are so many! But also Spitting Image, Chris

Barrie immortalised him on that, he always did him. Funnily enough, they

did a sketch once were his puppet was going to explode, and the real

David Coleman would walk on and at his catchphrase, quite remarkable!

And he did it three times, and the producer said, sorry, that doesn't

sound anything like you! The impression had overcome the

reality, a commentator turned national treasure. In a lot of

newspapers, the Daily Telegraph are very good on it. Back to the tough

stuff of the wider world, Jeremy, that is your role in all of this,

South Sudan, from the Independent on Sunday. Yes, campaigners warning

about the fact that South Sudan is very rich. The thing about South

Sudan is that it is the newest independent country in the world,

and its independence seems to be ending, or people hoped it would end

a civil war that had gone on for a generation. It is looking very much

as if war is returning to South Sudan, which is the most, you know,

awfully deep right place. There is cheery stuff I would like to talk

about! Strictly, for heaven's sake! I don't particularly... I would have

put a lot of money on Susanna Reid to win. She came third. The

fascinating thing about all of this, I know Rory has done it, I certainly

have no intention of doing it... Go on! Vince has done it! Peter

Mandelson would love to do it! He loves the sequins and stuff, he is

properly wearing them today. It is proper light entertainment, family

programme being enjoyed across the nation, and I actually stayed in and

watched the final. And why not? The quality... They danced brilliantly.

Think of that band, week after week, it is brilliant. Full credit

to the BBC, great show. Another kind of family entertainment, cricket.

You all very exercised! Graeme Swann, with two Ashes tests to go,

has called defeat. I think that maybe he has been told he will be

dropped anyway but the point is that he should sign off at the end of the

series, but not now. If you have paid a lot of money to fly out to

watch him bowling... You would be extremely annoyed. And a story about

Peter O'Toole. Yes, there are pieces all over the paper, a quote saying

the only exercise he took was walking up to the coffins of friends

who took exercise. There is a great story in the Sunday Times from

Sarah, who said in the hospital nurses came in to catch a glimpse of

him and advised him to put out his cigarette, he said they should open

the window. And a lovely Nelson Mandela story. You remember Frank

Dobson, the old Health Secretary, there was a time when Nelson Mandela

came up to Frank and said, hello, good to see you again, then there

was an awkward silence, and Nelson said to him, you do remember me,

don't you? Now the weather forecast. So far winter has proved to be mild

with temperatures in double figures across part of the country. With

just three days to go to Christmas, any chance of a white one? Over to

just three days to go to Christmas, any chance of a white one? white

Christmas, and our attention is going to be drawn to some stormy

weather before Christmas which could cause disruption if you are planning

to visit relatives over the next few days. There are plenty of showers

nationwide, and your attention perhaps drawn to the mountains of

Scotland where we have significant snowfall.

Over the next 24 hours, we could pick up 20 centimetres of snow over

the high ground of Scotland. There is a risk of icy patches developing

on untreated surfaces, and the first signs of an area of exceptionally

deep low-pressure bringing rain into England and Wales overnight. This

rain could cause localised flooding problems, it will be very windy

everywhere, and by the time we get to Christmas Eve the depth of the

low-pressure will have got down to 930 millibars. The wind could

potentially reach up to 90 mph in the west of Scotland. You will be

pleased to hear that on Christmas Day the weather will be a good deal

quieter. But no snow, you notice. The former

communications director and Cabinet Minister Lord Mandelson has

experienced the highs and lows of Labour fortunes over the years - so

what does he make of its current situation? He joins me now. The

polls are quite favourable for the Labour Party at the moment but do

you think they have done enough to win the next election or not? Given

the continuing economic problems of the country, I think the next

election is for Labour to lose. I think they are in a good position

but to consolidate their lead they have some things to do in 2014.

Firstly they have got to convert their very effective tactic some

cost of living into a strategy which is rooted in policies for economic

growth and rising prosperity for the country as a whole. The economic

picture has got to be painted in. Secondly, Ed Miliband faces a big

test of his leadership in relation to the trade unions. He has

effectively got to win the fight that he started quite radically to

reform the relationship between the trade unions and Labour. Thirdly, he

has to navigate his way through what could be a very difficult minefield

and that is the Chilcott inquiry into the Iraq war which remains very

sensitive issue. Do we know when that is coming? We are expecting

on-time midyear. Let me ask you about the trade unions because there

will be a special conference in the spring, but I think it will now be

bolted onto another conference, and it seems it has gone very quiet in

this. We are expecting clearer information about what the new union

links with Labour will look like. There is talk about it only applying

to new union members. No, what Ed has got to do is follow the logic of

his own analysis. He said, and I agree with him, that the

relationship needs to be between Labour and the individual Labour

supporting members of trade unions rather than with the general

secretaries and their block votes. Nomar block votes on policy? It

means lifting the unions' grip in electing the leader of the Labour

Party. All of this has to be rebalanced. I don't want to see the

relationship with the trade unions ended but I do want to see it

radically mended. I think this is a source of great anxiety for the

public and they want to see change, especially as Ed Miliband himself

has opened the door. Are you concerned that we will not see from

him the full range of reforms it looks like we would see? I don't

think we have an option. One outcome must be avoided is that as the

affiliation between the Labour Party, the payments based on the

affiliation are juiced, we don't want to see them give an even

greater control over the Labour Party's policy. Does Ed Miliband's

leadership depend on this? His leadership was won mainly by his

affiliation with the general secretaries. He has got to move away

from that but I think he can do. What about the big picture on the

economy? There is no money left, we are still heavily overborrowed as a

country, what is the future for centre-left politics in that

situation? I don't think the state of the economy is as glittering as

the Coalition maintained, nor quite as gloomy as the Labour Party

sometimes claims, but we do have a mountain to climb in this country.

We have got to invest heavily in private and public sectors to close

the productivity gap with our competitors. We have got to see

people earning more and their personal indebtedness reduced, that

is very important indeed, and we have got to rebalance the economy

both between the manufacturing and non-manufacturing sectors of the

economy and between the different regions of the country. Labour has

got to show it has policies that will, on a sustainable basis,

achieve those things. Are you calling for a new industrial

strategy and a new banking strategy? On the banks, the weaknesses of the

banking system have broadly speaking been repaired, we now need a period

of stability for the banks to adjust to the new regulatory regime. Banks

have got to start doing their job, which is lending money chiefly to

the corporate sector. But I would like to see the work that I started

in my industrial activism when I was Business Secretary, which has been

continued by Vince Cable. We have to build on that and I think Ed Balls

and the shadow business secretary are doing that. Ed Balls has had a

torrid time, how do you think he is doing? I think Ed balls has a wealth

of knowledge and experience of international finance and markets,

huge expertise which the country will benefit from. I sometimes think

he is better in Government than in opposition but that is not a bad

thing. I would rather have a shadow chancellor who is better in

Government. If he gets there. For now, thank you.

On the very day that Nelson Mandela died, the premiere of a new film

about his life opened in London. An amazing coincidence. Playing the

lead in Long Walk To Freedom is one of our biggest stars, Idris Elba.

From East London, he made his name in America, as hoodlum Stringer Bell

in that cult series, The Wire. Back here for the BBC, he's been a moody

and complex copper in Luther. When I met Idris Elba, he told me how his

own father, who also died recently, informed his portrayal and his

knowledge of Nelson Mandela. I was certainly aware because of my dad,

who was very political, the trade unionists, he was always championing

Mandela. So he was in your mind when you are playing Mandela? Yes, that

was how I started to build him. I could so relate with his energy. I

have challenged the idea of a free society.

It is an idea for which I am prepared to die. The sentence will

be life in prison. What about the voice? Your family are from West

Africa, not South Africa. Africans tend to colour their English in a

very interesting way. Almost everything they say sounds noble so

I took that as a frame base. My dad speaks much like that, so I used

that and then I studied Xhosa. You pull it down a little bit rather

than pulling it up. The audience are asked to take a big leap of faith by

looking at an actor that looks nothing like the well-known man so I

wanted a voice that brought them closer to the character. And

incredibly difficult job because the millions of people this will be how

they know the man, as it were. Yes, I am very proud that this film holds

the ultimate story of Mandela, I am proud of that. A lot of his film is

about his relationship with Winnie, and it portrays her as a badly

wounded character. She has seen this film, and I think the portrayal of

her is closer to the truth than any other film that has been done of her

life because it shows the journey she went on from her journey from a

sweet 22-year-old woman to a hardened revolutionary. Did Nelson

Mandela himself ever see the film? I know he saw parts of it. When Nelson

Mandela viewed Idris Elba, do you know anything of his reaction to it?

There is one scene at the end of the film where I am walking up the Vale

where he came from and he thought that was him. He asked me how we did

that, he said, I don't remember walking up there. People love to

hate. They can be taught to love, formal comes more naturally --

because love comes more naturally to the human heart. There are very grim

periods in that, people look a life and think you have been showered

with good fortune. Has your life been that easy? No, I am a career

actor, I started at 16, I got my first professional job at 19. I have

been worked and I have been very fortunate but there have been

moments when it has been very hard. You had to leave Britain at one

point because you felt there were not the parts for a black actor in

British television? No, I just wanted to get into a bigger pond.

What day is it today? Friday? What happened on Friday. Payday. Not this

Friday. You are going to call him like you will pay him...

I think David Simon saw the chemistry between the different

characters. Almost like a father figure. How much did that role

affect Luther? A very rich role, hugely successful. Yeah, I would not

have got to lose if I had not done Stringer Bell, because they wanted

an actor to play a complex detective.

Have you chosen? Say her name. After Luther, no-one can Saighdiur

is poor writing in British television, it is sensational. It is

not just about writing for black or white characters but writing good

stories that fit into our culture, and that is what good writing has

always done for the BBC, television in this country. You are incredibly

driven, was there a moment when you said, I am going to show them what I

can do? Since playing Mandela, I figured there is a lot I can do, I

had this beacon is it doing on my head, and there is a way to point it

towards change and what I can do, I am using that analogy, but some

people are a little bit lost and do not know what to do, and I think

following, not my example, but the idea you can come from wherever you

want in the world, you can go wherever you want. So do you see

some sort of men touring role coming out of the Mandela experience?

Talking to people in east London? That is something I have done with

the Prince's Trust, they gave me a check! I would definitely like to do

more of that, as they say, give back.

Idris Elba there. Vince Cable is sometimes cast as the Eeyore of the

coalition, and there was good news on unemployment this week, but is

this the result of a borrowing boom, or is it more solidly based? Good

morning, can I put something to you? Looking at the numbers, if you are

going to avoid really serious, deep welfare cuts and spending cuts in

the next parliament, you will have to raise taxes and not simply

mention taxes but income tax. Well, there is a continuing problem of the

deficit, the structural deficit which arose from the financial

crisis. Any government is going to have to deal with that. I think the

crucial thing is that it has to be dealt with fairly. We have got to

have a sensible balance between pressure on public spending, which

is getting very severe, We are getting manufacturers coming

back to the UK now, but that has got to be put on a sustainable basis,

and we have to make sure the recovery is fair and that we have

got to keep helping people at the bottom end of the scale, we have

been pushing to get people out of tax, support the minimum wage, deal

with contract abuses and things of that kind. We are still very over

indebted, both personally and nationally. We are quite close now,

with unemployment coming down to the level at which the Bank of England

will look at interest rates, , what would be the effect of those rates

going up a point or two? This partly reflects the imbalance in the

economy. There is a housing boom in London and the south-east, not in

other parts of the country. The danger of raising interest rates is

that you hit those parts of the country which are not yet fully

recovered and push up the exchange rate, hitting manufacturing. On the

other hand, if you don't increase interest rates, if that is the way

the Government and the Bank of England go, then this boom in

housing prices get out of control and the only people who can live in

parts of London are foreigners and bankers. We don't want either. You

could stop fuelling that by looking at the Help To Buy scheme, for

instance. Indeed, we certainly need to look at that again. It was

conceived in very different circumstances. I noticed that the

rating agency standard and work, which gives us a AAA rating, is

expressing worries on that. -- Standard Poor's. Nick Clegg has

said Lib Dems will stop any further moves, including the ?75,000 per

year cap on the EU migrants coming into this country. Do you take the

same view? -- 75,000. It is illegal and impossible to implement in any

event. I think what is happening here, the Conservatives are in a bit

of a panic because of UKIP, reacting in the way they are. It is not going

to help them politically, but it is doing a great deal of damage. The

responsibility of politicians is to look at the facts, and the simple

point is that there is very little evidence of benefit tourism, people

coming from Eastern Europe, all the evidence suggests they put more into

the economy in terms of tax than they take out in benefits. It was

right to stop abuse of the benefits system, absolutely right to do that,

but freedom of movement, albeit constrained, is a basic principle,

and a lot of British people take advantage of it. The Prime Minister

seized on this as one of the big things that he is fighting, he is

personally behind this, going in to an argument with the Europeans and

the Bulgarian President, I think. Can you stop this happening, the

cap? It is not going to happen. Nick Clegg will not allow it still

happen. But there is a bigger picture here, we periodically get

immigration panics in the UK. Going back to Enoch Powell and rivers of

blood and all that, last century there was panics of Jewish

immigrants coming from Eastern Europe. The responsibility of

politicians in this situation, when people are getting anxious, is to

try to reassure them and give them facts and not panic and resort to

populist measures. This sounds like a bit of a crisis in the coalition

at the moment. Well, there is quite a lot of tension around this issue,

I do not pretend otherwise. We have a job to do to sort out the economy,

we are businesslike, and people would not forgive us if we walked

away from our responsibilities, but there are big differences over

fairness, tax and immigration, and we will argue our corner. When it

comes to be so-called red lines, I know you do not like the phrase, but

Mansion tax, probably higher taxes in other areas, those red lines for

you when it comes to the next election? Absolutely, and as a party

we have a lot to be proud of as part of this government, particularly

lifting large numbers of low earners out of tax altogether. But we will

argue for Berwick taxes, the Conservatives want to go in the

other direction. -- fairer taxes. Is its time to perhaps look again at

the top rate of income tax for people who can afford it, the

so-called rich? I do not see any reason for that. The previous cut

was not a great political success, and I think we need to be... Should

be reversed? We are not arguing for a reversal, but I think if the top

rate of income tax comes down you have to have higher rates of tax on

assets, high levels of wealth, the Mansion tax, extreme property

inflation would make that appropriate. Thank you very much

indeed. More from Vince Cable and Peter Mandelson in a moment, but

first the headlines from Naga Munchetty.

The president of Bulgaria has issued a warning to David Cameron about his

plans to toughen the rules on immigration. He told the Observer

newspaper that Britain's image as a global power that pioneered

integration would be harmed if Mr Cameron moves towards what he calls

isolation and national is. From next month, Bulgarians and Romanians will

be granted full access to the British labour market. On this

programme, unstable said that the Conservatives work in a panic about

immigration. -- Vince Cable. He warned against resorting to populist

measures. The former Labour Cabinet minister

Peter Mandelson has called on Ed Miliband to press ahead with

manacled reforms to the relationship with the trade unions and the party.

He said the reforms should be put to members at a special conference in

the spring. I think what many in the public remember is that the

leadership was won by Ed on the basis of the trade union vote,

notably the support of the trade union general secretaries. He has

got to distance itself from that and show real change.

That is all from me for now, the next news on BBC One is at one

o'clock. Time to get back to Andrew.

Vince Cable is here, and we are joined still by Anna Soubry and

Peter Mandelson. You heard what Vince Cable said about the

impracticality of the 75,000 cap, despite what the Prime Minister has

said, is that your view as well? I think it is not just illegal, but I

do not see how you would implement a cap on immigration when we want

investment and skills coming to this country. We have benefited this for

centuries. What on earth would be the point of cutting our noses off

to spite our face is now? Also, an awful lot of British people benefit

from the right to circulate freely within the single market. I think

there are many people going from this country to other European

countries, more than the other way around. Anna Soubry, you were

nodding. Forgive me, but on Question Time about one month ago, I said

pretty much what Vince said, which is that the overwhelming majority of

people who come to this country come here to work. There are some who

clearly don't, they are a small number, and they are quite rightly

going to be discouraged from coming here, but the majority work and

contribute to the economy, and in certain parts of the country they do

the jobs which, unfortunately, others are not doing. That is why

getting people back into work is one of the things that has brought us

together in government. And yet the Prime Minister wants to change this.

What we want to change is this place being seen as a country which you

can come to do take advantage of things you have not contributed to.

If you come here because you want to claim benefits or take advantage of

the NHS, in my view you are not welcome. The Prime Minister wants

to... I am so sorry, he also wants to change the deal on free movement,

he has made that clear. Absolutely, but when you speak to other

countries, when you speak to Germany, for example, a very good

example, and other country which is also deeply concerned about what

happens when other people come into the EU, not on the same financial

footing, and they are concerned about an imbalance. That is

perfectly right and proper. I think there is more agreement in the

European Union than people might imagine about this very difficult

and tricky issue. Going back to Peter Mandelson's point, many

British people go to Europe, as many as come here. I had a debate

recently were some body said they were absolutely fed up with all of

these immigrants coming into Britain, they are going to go and

live in Spain. There was a lot of schizophrenia about it. What we have

got to stop is damaging policies that actually do harm, and frankly,

in terms of the controls from outside the European Union, my

department deals with some of the negative effects of discouraging

overseas students, these restrictions which have become so

ridiculously tight that we cannot get people coming in from China and

India to do business. We need a responsible debate, and that is what

has been lacking, and I read the headlines in the newspapers, and

frankly it makes my stomach churn. This is one of the reasons why

people have a fear of immigration, because they are not getting all the

facts. I think Vince's point, in the circumstances, times are tough,

there is a danger of blaming the stranger, and history tells us that

is a very dangerous course to go down, which is where we agree. What

we need is an irresponsible debate, that is what I am waiting for from

politicians! The point you make is very strong, and that is that

putting a confident Britain at the heart of a reforming Europe will

find changes in European policies which are not just Britain is

demanding, but others can also support. There is far greater

consensus across the European Union than the press make out in this

country, but the demand is all proposals that we make have to be

reasonable, constructive ones that others can support, and that is

where David Cameron has to draw his line very carefully. Vince Cable,

everything you has been saying suggest you would be more

comfortable with Labour on these policies than in a conservative

coalition, post election. This is not an opportunity to score points

pro or anti Labour, we are in coalition, working together, doing

what has to be done to sort the economy out, but we have

disagreements, sometimes quite strong. I do not seem to be having

them this morning, on this issue we are going to agree. I will come back

to you in a moment, but it's been quite a year for this show, a bit

bumpy to say the least. But we've now been coming into your bedrooms

every Sunday for eight years. Some poorly behaved people on the team

have put together a little reminder of some of the big characters I've

talked to in that time. I have said all I have got to say on this and I

am not going to do anything other than to say I will refer you to the

other answers I have given to your questions. There isn't anyone who

believes your relationship with the Prime Minister has been happy and

cheerful. What went wrong? I don't think it has gone wrong and I think

Tony himself would say that. The relationship with God and was very

difficult, it was also very close. It was as lovers, almost intense as

that. Let me qualify that! The difficulty is when he was my number

two in a sense. People may be overestimated his capacity to be

Prime Minister. In the end it became clear we didn't share the same

agenda. Good evening from Downing Street, where Gordon Brown took

office as prime minister today. He hasn't hit you, sheltered at you?

Hits me? Metaphorically or physically? I think history records

that we have had our moments. It has been announced Gordon Brown will not

call an election this year. I want to get on with the business of

government. The new Prime Minister welcomes Nick Clegg to number ten,

the Liberal Democrat leader becomes deputy prime minister. Of course we

can do this minority government thing, it is simpler, it is what

people expect but it is uninspiring. It is not what we ought to be doing.

What do you actually make of him? In terms of the working partnership, we

have a strong working partnership. Do you like him? We work well

together. I don't think either of us go into this looking for friendship.

There will be a divorce eventually. We are not married! You have not

signed the papers. I am happily married to my wise, not Nick Clegg,

if I can put it that way. Two candidates for this job, why are you

better than your brother? I love David, he is one of my best friends

in life. How are things going with your brother? Your brother is for

life and you are a politician for a parliament at a time. Sometimes it

hurts. It is worth saying that sometimes it hurts. Do you think I

sometimes sound like a Central office Dalek? Daleks are supreme!

Humans are weak! You have got me surrounded. Are you going to hear me

complaining about the state of the media? No, you are not! Fame is a

very difficult thing to manage. Everyday people are telling you that

you are fantastic, every time they say that your head gets bigger and

you are floating away. You were involved in the Obama campaign and

there are still a lot of work to do there. I think Obama has enormous

challenges ahead of him. You knew Obama way back? Yes, I did. He has

been greater connecting but found the governing bit harder. It is

harder when the other party's number one goal is to make his life

difficult. Would you like there to be someone like the Queen with that

sense of history that you could privately shoot the breeze with?

Luck I don't know if anybody shoot the breeze with her Majesty the

Queen. Our figurehead of the country is a woman, she has been doing this

brilliant job for 60 years and I think the British public are just

starting to understand how important it is. How do you think it is going

at the moment? I think the country is in a mess and everybody should

all together instead of this pathetic bickering. They should be

men, even the women! Luck where there is discord, may we bring

harmony. I remember when she was elected that we were secretly

thrilled there was now a female head of state in Britain and we thought,

if it could happen there, in America it is seconds away. Of course we

were wrong again. Our political system at the moment, as soon as

somebody walks into it at the moment they are swallowed by a vacuum,

where nobody can say anything controversial, everybody has to stay

on message and nobody is talking to each other at all. Even, I have

changed my mind. If only somebody would say, I have seen that in

progress and it doesn't bloody work. Something that your wife, Gayle,

said to you, that the nastiness of politics had somehow contributed to

your cancer. Yes, that is true. It would have been better for me to say

I can do what I do, which I do quite well, then push it back. I am

determined to die under a Labour government. I have to get a move on

but the message is to have faith and try to change the world. Later on in

my life I want to do politics and become a leader, and bring a change

in Pakistan because I don't want to be a politician in a country which

is already developed. I want to be a politician in a country which needs

development. In Afghanistan may need our help. People there are starving,

a lot of people are traumatised. I am an Anglican, this is what I wear

to identify myself as a clergyman. Robert Mugabe has taken people's

identity and cut it to pieces, this is what he has done and in the end

there is nothing. From now on, I will not be wearing any collar until

Mugabe has gone. You met Mao Zedong! We had an official dinner,

he uses his own chopstick for some food, put it on my plate, a great

honour. I feel little fear he was coughing too much, the

chain-smoker! I might get some germs!

The most deadly piece of fruit in British political history. It was my

breakfast! I'm not sure I've ever been accused of being macho. That

was for you, DC, it is all about you. I'm sorry but that is what you

have got to do in the interests of the country. I'm sorry about that

but they have got lots of reasons to be aghast at me.

There you go, and Rory Bremner is here again as well. We didn't hear

much from David Cameron in that shot but you have been working on him. I

think we have had a bit of recovery this year and we have some choices

now. We can tax rich people in their mansions, or poor people in their

bedrooms. I think it is pretty clear, we should be. Where between

Lord Cardigan and not behind these people with a spare room who they

only use when a relative needs dialysis. Ed Miliband? It is a

strange name because it sounds like something to do with the Internet. A

lot of the country can only just get cable, to be honest with you. It has

got that Chris Tarrant feeling to it. As a child, I swallowed a

kazoo. The big thing is UKIP, and Nigel Farage. They are coming over

here, putting our jobs at risk. I always think it looks like somebody

is putting their finger up his bottom. Are you allowed to say

that? It is too early! That's all for this morning, and indeed for

this year. We'll be back on fifth January when I'll be talking to

David Cameron. Until then, thanks to all my guests, and to all of you for

watching. Merry Christmas. We leave you now with the Commitments, all

the way from London's West End via Dublin and Motown - take it away!

# I cannot turn you loose now because if I do I'm going to lose my

mind. # I can't ever turn you loose now because if I do I'm going to

lose my mind. # I can't turn you loose to nobody because I love you

the way I do know. # I told my mum I'm in love with only you. # Do it,

baby, I'm going to give you everything you want. # Never going

to turn you loose, got to keep a grip on you.

# you got to think, think about what you are trying to do to me. Think,

let your mind go, let yourself be free. # Let's go back, back to way

back when. # I ain't no doctor with a degree but it doesn't take much IQ

to see what you are doing to me. # You had better think about what you

are trying to do to me, think, let your mind be free. # Freedom,

freedom, freedom! # freedom, freedom, freedom!

# hey, think about it. # Hip shaking mama, I told you I'm in love with

only you. Me and Alan don't always

play by the rules. I think perhaps we should

never mention it again. I'm getting wed again. I hope that's

all right. Ready when you are, kid.